Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[Charloux]

So much trouble over some tacos... Well can't judge you since we don't even have them here.
VOTE: Culted

[Charloux]

Who's scum?

I think you started this conversation about tacos to derail us from the target. Or you have a few screws loose in there. Which is it? Are you scum or an idiot like me?

[Charloux]

If you genuinely think I'm trying to distract you from a target, why are you not voting me? That's a strong scumtell for this early in the game, but you aren't following it? Why?

How would this look to you: "Hey! RB! Are you scum or an idiot like me? Well, it doesn't matter (Votetag)."
I also thought you were at L-2 at the time(maybe the mod counted it regardless?), so me not bringing someone to L-1 should be NAI. SO your premise for me being scum is wrong, thus your seriousness about me getting lynched is ridiculous.

And i also said before that we don't have tacos here, so i don't have an opinion about them.
Btw 28 Was supposed to let me see what kind of person you are, but your disregarding half of my post to call me scum gives me scummy vibes.

[Charloux]

Getting to know you better =/= I want to be friends. I was judging what kind of person you were, so i'd have a better understanding of your actions later on. 28 Was fake, but i did get scum vibes from you in 32.

[Charloux]

@Karnos: Did you put yourself deliberately in 35, or by accident?

Also i'm sorry for rendering rb useless for the time being, didn't know he would react like this. Ok i'm not sorry, it's fun to see him angry <3

[Charloux]

I think Guilty is the only one who hasn't noticed yet. I though i would be the last one so i'm kind of happy
(<*-*<)(^*-*^)(>*-*>)

[Charloux]

Well Karnos is obvtown to me. RB buddy-ing him is just his playstyle(If i got his character right) with no ulterior motives.
GuiltyLion is rubbing salt on a mistake Karnos made and is not letting go which will only hurt town in the long run. Don't think he is scum for pushing, but if i were scum i would either let this play out without me involving myself or find a reason to get Karnos to L-1 *looks at Lemons*

[Charloux]

You are really sharp sometimes but can also be pretty dull at others. It was already explained that 28 was fake.
You like quantity over quality so it was important for me to get a grasp on your personality.

[Charloux]

Whats your read on RB then? His play so far can be summarized in pointing fingers at me. How is that different from Karnos? Also i can't see Culted as anything but a jokester, and even though my RVS vote is still there i have a null read on him. What did you see in his posts that looks scummy?

[Charloux]

@Karnos: Did you put yourself deliberately in 35, or by accident?

How would an answer to this question give you a better read on karnos' alignment?

Assuming what he said was the truth, him saying "Lynch me if i'm guilty" deliberately is towny in my opinion. He also added that he regrets doing it, but i don't think he said that because of GL pushing him making me townread him a bit more.

[Charloux]

culted why are you so involved with how other players are forming reads
also in general just butting into a lot of conversations before they can resolve

Fuck that, explain your naked vote on me. I didn't jump on you because you said you would come back to this after the exam.

[Charloux]

Assuming what he said was the truth, him saying "Lynch me if i'm guilty" deliberately is towny in my opinion. He also added that he regrets doing it, but i don't think he said that because of GL pushing him making me townread him a bit more.

Do you think it's wise to assume he's telling the truth when he could have easily used your question to manufacture a narrative where he said that on purpose?
Feel like you're throwing him an awfully large bone here.
Who do you think is scum?

I trust him right now. If he is lying we will know soon enough. It's also good to leave him alone for wifom tonight.
I townread Karnos and Rb(But if he keeps this up i will have to make sure one of us doesn't live when it's lylo)
Townlean on GL
Null read on BTD, Arc and you
Nullscum on Lemon
I find RK scummy since the naked vote.

[Charloux]

Don't ask filler questions. The naked vote is scummy because it is a naked vote.
And i won't vote for her because i won't be able to hammer if she goes to L-1 for some reason.

[Charloux]

VOTE: Charloux
Someone do me a favor and hammer.

[Charloux]

If rb, rk and everybody else who find my pointing out and complaining about unreasonable conduct as scummy are supposed to be my teamates; id rather drop dead right now.
I was thinking about fake claiming just to spread chaos and help scum, but i won't drop to your level and destroy the whole game.

[Charloux]

Im not frustrated, im pissed off.
Here are my demands or ill become a pseudo lyncher/jester
1) rb takes this game seriously, uses his brain and does something that has value.
2)rk explaines her read on me and apologizes for spitting in my face when i asked her earlier.

@culted: why is me scumreading somebody who is gutvoting me scummy? Why is it scummy for me to be open with my thought process?

[Charloux]

@Rb: you were leading a propaganda to get me lynched, ignoring most of the thread. Now that i want to be lynched, you are saying nobody hammer and ill get blacklisted if im town. You are negating all your posts and nobody gives 2 fucks about you.

[Charloux]

I'm really bad with people who act like kids but are really smart, prideful and sadistic. He isn't playing mafia, he is playing "Make the guy who made fun of me suffer as much as he can". Like a corrupt politician he disregards laws(rules), but uses them when he needs to make his point. I also think winning is secondary, and having fun is primary; but i am at least trying to win.

UNVOTE: Charloux Is your avatar just for show then?

[Charloux]

i guess the difference between you and me is that winning is primary and im not anti wincon

By not playing to help town you are against win-con if you are town.

[Charloux]

You saying i'm scum doesn't convert me from town to scum. You gave no reasoning that wasn't cut off in 1 post and you are just ridiculing me. You aren't playing mafia right now.

[Charloux]

You are now trampling over everybody that uses their brain in this game. Reasons are overrated? Can't be bothered to? Get over yourself you piece of trash.

[Charloux]

Townread=/=Nullread=/=Scumread
I don't care about getting townread, but i don't like getting scumread for no good reason. Like tunneling somebody to death because he can't stand the fact that he was fooled by a fake post.

[Charloux]

It wasn't a prank, it was a fake post to see what kind of person you are.
Also i have been more open about my thoughts than anybody in this game, so you calling me a liar means you aren't paying attention to my posts. Go play town of salem, it suits your style more.

[Charloux]

@Karnos: Why didn't you propose the other way around?

RK is obvscum though, still didn't explain why i am scum but is just adding comments that fit her read on me. Me being pissed off isn't fake, you just used those wordings instead of "Scum can get frustrated as well, and i think this is it" so it would look more appealing for the others who read it.

[Charloux]

@Karnos: Why didn't you propose the other way around?

RK is obvscum though, still didn't explain why i am scum but is just adding comments that fit her read on me. Me being pissed off isn't fake, you just used those wordings instead of "Scum can get frustrated as well, and i think this is it" so it would look more appealing for the others who read it.

Charloux, RK actually did make a real point though that she doesn't believe town!Charloux would self-vote and get mad that quickly. She said since you're not a new player, you flying off the handle doesn't fit what she would expect to be town play. Do you think that should count as a valid explanation?

It's basically my word against her's. In general what she said is correct, but i am different than you. I can't persuade you by words because you can't feel my frustration and anger when i get voted because i smell like scum. I was moderatly frustrated even before that and Culted voting me was the last drop to make me go berserk. The vote from RB and culted didn't feel fake to me at all but RK's did. And she still refuses to tell me why i got voted in the first place.
I tried engaging about the read, but i was just brushed off.

[Charloux]

Yeah, i'm gonna die today. I'll post what i think right now and leave the rest to you.

Spoiler:

Town:

GL

Townlean:

Karnos
RB
Culted

Null:

BTD6_Maker

Scumlean:

Lemons
ArcAngel

Scum:

Road Kamelot

I want you to at least tell me why your gut tells you i'm scum. It happens in 90% of my games regardless of alignment. Is it the tone or something?
And make Karnos claim tomorrow.

[Charloux]

This game needs a flip.

[Charloux]

We have 28 more hours till the deadline. Who are your other scumreads apart from GL?

[Charloux]

The problem with lynching ArcAngel is that her flip won't tell anything about the others. Nobody pushed her nor did she push anybody. She didn't even write a name in her posts.

[Charloux]

Scum sure took a gamble with this kill. Nobody else was worth killing so the jailkeeper would've been on her if we had him. Waiting for the results then.

[Charloux]

Yes i shouldve died yesterday and i wanted to die yesterday. Scum have quite a pile of easy mislynches right now so it makes sense for the investigative roles to come forward. They will have 1/2 chance to hit a pr blindly but it should be easy to determine the roles for them.

[Charloux]

Tonight if you guys mislynch*

[Charloux]

When a moment comes where a guy like me has the most common sense, it can only mean that town lost.

[Charloux]

When a moment comes where a guy like me has the most common sense, it can only mean that town lost.

What do you think of lemons? Am I reading him wrong?

Actually, right now i see him as this setups wildcard and not scum. Upon rereading his ISO, apart from a few possible scum motivated actions like his vote on you on D1, i don't see his actions as benefiting scum. for example

Rb still seems town. He's been contributing to conversation in a mostly constructive way, and I really don't see scummy intent there, even if Charloux flipped town.

Also holy cow ArcAngel is here. ArcAngel, what do you think of everything? What are your reads?

I don't think scum would go out of their way to post something like this.
But with a whooping 14 pages in total, there is no way to get a good grip on anybody's alignment. I wonder why i put him in the scumlean category yesterday though

[Charloux]

Charloux is still looking pretty scummy from day 1, especially since he seemed to get mysteriously quiet as soon as the wagon was off of him and on AA. When he was about to be lynched it seemed like he wanted to leave the town with as much info as possible, posting his read list and such, but as soon as the pressure was off he got quiet.

If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.

Filler question: Do you think that i as scum would kill the only person who was defending me on D1?

[Charloux]

That's why i labeled it as Filler question. The correct answer is YES. Because i'm HALF CRAZY!

[Charloux]

If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.

Why did you get quiet after posting your reads then? And why stay quiet once you were no longer the target?

I didn't want to play anymore at the time.

Also, since your reads have changed, who do you think is scum now?

Darkshadow+ Btd make the most sense to me right now.

[Charloux]

Btd is constantly in VLA mode and still in RVS from what i can see. No point discussing him before january 5th
My scumread on RK was centered around her motivation and behaviour concerning her vote on me. Dark made 11 NAI posts so far. Surprised nobody asked him about 293 though. For all i know, he just repeated the names of the 3 most scumread people at the time without any opinion.
This is basically poe more or less right now.

[Charloux]

Checking in. The only interesting thing that happened to me was witnessing feminists beat up guys ~2X their numbers.

[Charloux]

It's not like i want to lurk(this time), i just can't connect to the internet in my apartment because "The DNS server isn't responding"

[Charloux]

Finally got internet access! In the hospital... I just want to complain on my bad luck sorry.

Btd is constantly in VLA mode and still in RVS from what i can see. No point discussing him before january 5th
My scumread on RK was centered around her motivation and behaviour concerning her vote on me. Dark made 11 NAI posts so far. Surprised nobody asked him about 293 though. For all i know, he just repeated the names of the 3 most scumread people at the time without any opinion.
This is basically poe more or less right now.

1)Btd has posted content what is your read on that?
2)What was scummy about the behavior of the vote on you?
3)And if dark's posts are all nai, then why does it feel like you think his reads are just the scummiest people?

1)D1 he commented on AA and talked with GL a bit. Nothing really stood out as far as i'm concerned. Nothing on D2 apart from forcing Karnos to claim. Nothing in his posts are AI, everything can be easily faked as scum.
2)Didn't want to talk to me about the vote. I think this is reason enough to scumread her. Also looked opportunistic AF from MPOV.
3)He gave his emotional opinion, not reads. and "reads" with "" was meant to imply i was sarcastic. I can see scum motivation from his votes though. Forcing Karnos to claim and putting me to L-1 only after he had no more alternatives for pushing.

@Karnos: I though you hinted that you got a guilty on Lemons last night, but didnt want to claim >.<

[Charloux]

How do you find what interested btd day 1 (what little there was) considering the flips and recent things?

His sole focus was on GL and AA. AA's focus is logical for both alignments. I thought GL was obvtown and a possible PR, so his scumlean on GL seemed irrational to me. The thing that interest me the most is his lack of opinion on my behavior. Dont know what to think of it though

[Charloux]

159 was the first red flag, it feels like a game of chicken and is very anti-town, then the sudden lack of posting as soon as the heat was off him, finally the magical Internet connection.

My turn to look at everything as scummy!
You only went with the flow so far, focusing on those who were generally scumread. Posting tons of one-liners to look like you are very active. Attacking the gameplay rather than posts because you got nothing concrete. Using psychological tricks to make me look more scummy(If you repeat the same thing over and over, the others are more likely to see it as the truth). Doesn't put me to L-1 until he has no other options available for a mislynch.

[Charloux]

His sole focus was on GL and AA. AA's focus is logical for both alignments. I thought GL was obvtown and a possible PR, so his scumlean on GL seemed irrational to me. The thing that interest me the most is his lack of opinion on my behavior. Dont know what to think of it though

I was thinking more that he immediately honed in and GL and karnos duking it out (which now we can safely assume was tvt) and it looks rather bad because he went of gl for the soul purpose of more people being apt to take Guilty's side in the argument.

That's scum for a couple different reasons. Trying to capitalize off of a tvt to start with, but weighing his options via which path would make him look less opportunistic. This is enhanced further by him not responding to my question(s) pertaining about why either of them were scummy and why he created that dichotomy in the first place.

And yes I sorta forgot about the AA wagon but it's kinda tough to gleam anything from that because just about everyone in the game was down to lynch that and they didn't post any content at all really.

This is like the second time I've asked you for a read on BTD and the second time where you've not had an opinion but could talk about stuff that he's done. Are you scum with him or are yougonna vote him already?

159 was the first red flag, it feels like a game of chicken and is very anti-town, then the sudden lack of posting as soon as the heat was off him, finally the magical Internet connection.

My turn to look at everything as scummy!
You only went with the flow so far, focusing on those who were generally scumread. Posting tons of one-liners to look like you are very active. Attacking the gameplay rather than posts because you got nothing concrete. Using psychological tricks to make me look more scummy(If you repeat the same thing over and over, the others are more likely to see it as the truth). Doesn't put me to L-1 until he has no other options available for a mislynch.

Here's a better question. You think that dark is the scum pushing you. Are scum more likely to repeatedly give stances and say you're scummy in everypost or say it once and then coast out the day?

[Charloux]

Ah darn it, made a mistake... and now i can't even quote properly

This is like the second time I've asked you for a read on BTD and the second time where you've not had an opinion but could talk about stuff that he's done. Are you scum with him or are yougonna vote him already?

I'll hammer Btd/dark gladly. I don't really see Btd as scummy as you do, but everybody else is town for me.

Here's a better question. You think that dark is the scum pushing you. Are scum more likely to repeatedly give stances and say you're scummy in everypost or say it once and then coast out the day?

Depends on the personality and the circumstances. Personality vise i think he is more likely to push rather than coast. And if Btd is scum he has one more reason to push the only other guy apart from his partner.

[Charloux]

@Karnos: Not sure how deep in the past you should look for meta. I remember BTD faked a guilty on his scumpartner in micro 618. But since you were in the game as well you know that it was ~half a year ago.
In my last scumgame i got caught with the same method you used just now so this case is kinda sticking in my head. Need some time to rethink since i really think Dark is scum rn.

[Charloux]

I actually wasn't implying BTD there he actually turned around his read on you to town if you hadn't noticed.

Yeah kinda reminds me of your townread on me. He didn't give any reasons for townreading me, i don't townread him=> I'm proceeding like it never happened.

[Charloux]

After a quick read, Karnos and Charloux look most suspicious but I will go into greater depth to evaluate them.

I have read it in more detail, and it looks like Charloux actually seemed more Townish on a reread. I get the sense that Charloux is showing genuine frustration.

Well, his read is like a delayed reaction to my immaturity during D1. But i don't think one would miss my posts even if they were skimming and his read feels like "Oh something like that happened, didn't even notice before rereading"
This is my problem because i can't determine if he really didn't see because he was too busy or simply didn't care ATT.

[Charloux]

3 more days, Dark isn't going to get lynched today so i will forget about being a hammer and vote my 2nd pick.
VOTE: BTD I know you aren't a PR but claim regardless. L-1

[Charloux]

Culted, asking again, why do you suddenly completely trust karnos' word on his role after scumreading him all day?

@Culted's last post
Same question to everyone but in regard to Culted and Charloux's push on BTD.

A guy claims a PR. If nobody CC's, he is confirmed. If there is a CC we debate. There were no CC's therefore he is confirmed. Anything wrong with this thinking?

[Charloux]

Then ask Karnos for a full claim. if he is faking it there is a 66% chance we will get a cc. If a pr dies tonight and another says "Hey, wait a minute!" I'm the other PR, Karnos is scum! But for this to work we have to kill scum today.

[Charloux]

Shit, I lied. Lemons isn't on my wagon, and he might well quick lynch me if I am correct about him being scum. Please unvote before you allow that to happen, I am a town PR, consider this a soft claim.

No. I checked GL.

Did you really miss this BTD?

[Charloux]

95% certain the claim is fake and that we won't be seeing BTD anymore unless we have to do a quicklynch.

[Charloux]

Soooo Culted how does it feel to be the only normal person in the midst of scum, idiots and kids?
VOTE: Karnos
I bet BTD forgot to use his action as well.

[Charloux]

rb

It's got to be rb and BTD. Scum wouldn't out themselves unless it was to save a partner. And "forgot" to use pr at night? Uhhh okay.

Why would scum be suicidal like Rb? And there haven't been any more PR claims, so where is the last one if both Rb and BTD are scum?

[Charloux]

We were lucky today. If Rb cc'ed tomorrow, i think i would've voted for him.

[Charloux]

He already knows that we won't consider lynching Lemons. I'd say there is a good chance of Lemons being the other scum which pisses me off. Luckily we have 1 mislynch and 2 investigative roles.

[Charloux]

And now nobody will ever know what result BTD had.

[Charloux]

Rb is conf town and culted is obvtown for me. I had a scumread on Dark's slot and on himself since the beginning. That hammer in the end just makes him more scummy.
This doesn't really mean anything, but i am the deathmiller based on all the bad things that happened to me this past month. Rb forgetting to use his action also probably saved my life.
VOTE: Darkshadow

[Charloux]

I believe in my bad luck so you can't be a deathmiller IMO. It was close to a joke, the reasoning before it is enough to tunnel you.

[Charloux]

You don't plan on providing your opinion on who the scum is?

[Charloux]

I don't think i will change my mind about Culted just because you agreed that he is scummy. Why is he scummy?
Also if i were scum and in Lemon's place i would try to push for a mislynch on Culted/Charloux and then go for the "Yeah Dark is scum, i made a mistake yesterday"
Also, i think the reasoning behind BNL's townread on me yesterday is because he checked me out. Since he didn't yell scum, i'd have to say that i am not the death miller.
UNVOTE: Dark Need to think if it's Lemons or Dark, still leaning on Dark but this needs more time.

[Charloux]

Charloux, who's scum?

Dark. Culted should be town, you are a confirmed PR; And the reason why we asked Karnos for a full claim was because Lemons started the talk about why we trusted Karnos's claim in 484
If he isn't scum for some reason i have no idea what to do.

[Charloux]

VLA ~2 days. Exam.

[Charloux]

The karnos hammer could have been scum, but it would have been a pretty bad idea if it were. How does it benefit him?

Btd never got to share his results because Karnos was lynched. It's a big difference if we have 1 confirmed town or 2.

[Charloux]

Why didn't he wait for BTD before even voting then? ~1hour passed after 550 and he did a hammer. I'd say he wanted to act normally knowing Karnos will get lynched regardless, but when he saw him getting to L-1 he took a big gamble and decided to rid the town of results.

[Charloux]

But just to be sure: Charloux why am I obvtown?

More like a townread rather than obvtown. Lack of content i find scummy, being a townleader and making sound arguments.

[Charloux]

RE 674
Culted

[Charloux]

Charloux, why is Culted your top SR now?

You are the only one who fully questioned Karnos's claim and i don't see you as the kind of guy who would do that to his buddy when there were more juicy targets around. This is the biggest towntell in the game for me so Culted being a strongish townread means little to me if Dark is town.
VOTE: Dark About time we end this charade and lynch this scum as far as i'm concerned.

[Charloux]

Kinda wanted some feedback from RB.
@Culted: 1) Why would scum!Lemons kill him partner for no good reason?
2) Everybody who made a big mistake this game flipped town, and Karnos flipped scum. Following that logic you are scum.
Actually ignore 2) it's just me complaining.

[Charloux]

VOTE: Lemons

[Charloux]

Lemons, your behavior changed when i said i would vote for Culted tomorrow, that's the main reason i changed my vote.

[Charloux]

VOTE: Dark About time we end this charade and lynch this scum as far as i'm concerned.

Please explain why you posted this if you really wanted rb's input?

1)I thought it was gg and that you were scum.
2)I expected some final thoughts before the hammer, and did NOT think anybody would just nonchalantly come and hammer without saying anything; Especially after the comments you got about the hammer.

[Charloux]

Town winning this is nothing less than a miracle. We made tons of ridiculous mistakes and not to mention my reads... The only one i got right could be confirmed because he was a PR.