WWE Mafia - RAW (OFF TELEVISION)

[Almost Chara]

i don't know anything about wrestling.

VOTE: ThinkBig
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

The other game isn't really relevant to what we're doing here, so I am already inclined to treat anyone who spends a significant amount of time trying to interact with the other game so early as scum.

That's one wrestler we know NOT to consult on our daily draft, I suppose.

P.S. Good luck if YOU get drafted on -say- D4 to the other brand and have to read through all previous 3 days at once.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

How I wish they will draft you to the other thread.

Not a chance, buddy. Not a one-in-a-million chance.

[Almost Chara]

The reason that Raw is only 3 pages is because of the simple fact that the Raw roster is full of lurksacks and scummy as fuck KMD. As for Smackdown you tools need to shape up and push Maria.

vote:KMD

Um.. erm.. I mean .. I was hoping you would the time to analyze the players (not necessarily in public, but you know.. keep some personal notes) and then come and post a list of 6-7 players you would lynch and stuff .. (you know.. like you did in The Real Folks Blues) and we go from there.

Obviously that's ruined, and if you tried to force it it might not be as accurate, so..

Anyway; what's done is done. Why KMD? I know you said he was scummy, but what exactly gave you those negative vipes?

Also, if it's not too much trouble I'd appreciate it if you looked at Vifam from Smackdown and told me what you think. I have seen Town!Vifam in The Real Folks Blues and I have just recently seen Scum!Vifam in a game we (Almost Chara) played in with him, and I can't decide which one is this current Vifam. (P.S. I have yet to read anything today though, so I only followed the other thread up to page #18)

@Everyone else:

We need to play this as a team. I don't care if you hate the other player, or if your persona is at odds with their persona. You can do what you like play-roling the hatred if you like, but when it comes to actually playing Mafia please stay focused. Games this complicated tend to backfire if everyone goes and does their own thing regardless, and it could be our downfall if someone decides to troll or be selfish.

Bottom line: If you're a "Baby Face" you need to work with your fellow "Baby Faces".



~A50

[Almost Chara]

I think All Alone could be scum.

Hear hear. So far I'm disliking them and Dodge the most.

Can we, like, not do these submissions so early? Holy shit...

I was going to say that, but I actually let it slide to see how far All Alone are willing to go.

@Nero: Still scum reading Kmd? Cuz I'm not so sure about it. Also Narna is painfully obv!Town (for one)

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Also, a quick reminder to all:

I respond to posts in order, so f I ask a question that has been answered after the post I'm responding to it's because I haven't read that yet.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Spoiler: Creature

Hmm, I wonder why Nero's focused to scumhunt here...

Because he is a good player and so is Titus. They understand the mechanics of the game and know the two threads ARE relevant to each other. If they get drafted they will engage promptly rather than read from scratch. If someone gets drafted into their respective brands they will have a read on them already. That's the way it works (or at least the way it SHOULD work).

P.S. Obviously Creature isn't interested in keeping an eye o this thread, so anyone else who does read this please give him my regards.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Hmmm.. there seems to be some confusion about certain game mechanics. You guys (and girls) REALLY need to read #1 post in full.

You cannot "ship" someone out to the other brand. It isn't even your call.

Here's how it works:

At the end of a day (whether by lynch or by exhausting the time limit) there is an extended twilight phase. First, each manager will submit ONE name of their OWN BRAND. This player will be UNDRAFTABLE. So let's say we picj Nero on D1. Now massive canNOT pick Nero to be playing for his brand on D2.

However, a manager cannot submit the same player twice in a row, so if Nero is our pick on D1 we cannot make him undraftable on D2 as well, but we may do so on D3 if he isn't already drafted on N2.

I hope this is clear.

Now the next step is each manager will pick one draft from the other brand. That will be from the list of living players who are draftable (all living players except the one submitted as undraftable for that day).

So, the player from Smackdown who will be switching to RAW tomorrow will be OUR pick (as in Almost Chara's pick).

Now please pay attention to the follow up post.

~A50

P-edit:

WE are RAW.

That spoiler should be directed at Smackdown

[Almost Chara]

Now we need to keep an eye on BOTH threads, regardless of which one you are currently in because:

1- You COULD be tonight's draft. After that; you could be drafted back in here for D3. You don't want to play catch-up all the time.

2- You need to have a read on whoever gets drafted in if you are with us by tomorrow.

3- Consider something like this: We mislynch twice and we have 2 NKs (I'm not even sure if this game has night kills, but I'm assuming it does since this is a MAFIA game after all). This means we have 9 players alive. Now assuming we made a mistake and drafted one scum out of our two over the two nights, we start D3 on LyLo already (again, assuming 3 scum on each thread at the start of the game which makes sense with a 13-players list).

4- Or you can consider the OTHER scenario of us lynching 2 scum on the opening 2 days. We SHOULD be drafting a scumster from the other brans and lynch them here. We would be very much in control of our own brand AND we don't want the scums to control the majority on the other brand.

Actually I need to ask the mod about this:

Does the scum controlling EITHER brand win them the game or do you treat them separately so one brand can have a baby face win and the other have a heel win?

So, I'm inclined to treat whoever promotes NOT reading the other thread as either scum or a lazy town player who does not understand the game.

I was considering making it a democracy and let everybody have their say on who we should be drafting, but that requires you actually do read the other thread and may are too lazy to do it, so I'll be consulting those whom I town read (that's a given) AND have ACTUAL READS on Smackdown. It's easy to say let's have Titus over here even before the game started, but if Titus was scum? FTR, I'm Town reading Titus, but what if I'm wrong myself?? What if I'm right but the majority HERE doesn't agree? Rather than having her resulting in a smooth win it could backfire and we end up losing because you didn't care to read the other thread and thus had no say over whom we draft.

Am I making myself clear here or am I talking to myself?

~A50

P.S. I'm also contemplating on making a crazy move, but I have to (a) consult Chara and (b) have more reads from Nero, and particularly on my top 2 suspects: All Alone & Dodge.

As for my Town reads I also only have 2 in Narna and Nero, but I'm more confident with the one on Narna tbh. I need you to obv!Town to me, Nero so that I can only worry about whether you're right or wrong (and not also have to worry about you being sly and misleading.)

Once again: ~A50

[Almost Chara]

Spoiler: Titus

Can the managers elect a no trade?

FGS, read the mechanics. If a manager fails to submit either one of their own as undraftable or one of the other brand as their draft pick; Vince will do it for them at random.

[Almost Chara]

i'm a bit glad our thread is so slow. made it easier to catch up.
i don't like Dodge, but that might be disagreement over methods more than anything else. the bad Narna push, followed by the 'oh, nevermind, i understand now' is something i've done as town before.

i'd like to point out that Kuroi stated somewhere, or maybe i asked, that it's entirely possible for RAW and Smackdown to have different factions win. scum can win one with town winning the other.
Almost did a good job of it, but i'd like to underline that following the other thread is a very good idea. this is

one game

, not two concurrent games. drafts happen every twilight, so there will be a lot of swapping. and yes, we could win or lose by drafting. if it didn't matter to our game, this would have just been two minis.

Narna is town, as is the McMenno hydra, who i'll be calling McMenno because it's just McMenno with two accounts. which is great. Kmd and All Alone for scum. McMenno's doing it was town, Alone doing it

after

, combined with the exaggerated 'you've done nothing', just looks like a copycat trying to get towncred for making a suboptimal play. i haven't read the other thread very much, except to know Titus could be town.

pedit: this is a large game. you didn't sign up for a mini. it's pure luck that our thread is moving as slowly as it is. though, you likely won't get drafted if you're saying that, so maybe it doesn't matter for you.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Malpas might be scum for such outrage at being voted without any attempt to scum hunt All Alone based on it.

i'm pretty sure it was in reaction to All Alone deciding to attack players for inactivity in a 6-page game, and use their finisher on Banana Mint. are you townreading Alone?
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

why do you have Alone as town? 88 just looks overblown. it's literally been two days, and barely out of RVS. it doesn't look like real annoyance on Alone's part.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Titus

: i haven't had a chance to read your thread yet, so i'll answer on who we'd like later.
as for your plan. i'm not sure how happy i am with it. maybe Almost has a different feeling, but first and foremost, i want a RAW win. we can't move to Smackdown. of course, winning both is ideal, but i'm not sure how to facilitate that with the drafting mechanic. if you have a pool of Smackdown players you don't want us to draft, and it's a townblock, having us draft from the 'unsure-to-scummy' pool of players is just making it more likely we'll pick scum, which, depending on how well we've done lynching scum, could screw us over. i also don't see how either RAW or Smackdown is helped by swapping around players no one is sure is town. it just adds several elements of uncertainty to how far away LyLo is when we can't be reasonably certain about the amount of scum in any given game.

then again, swapping town players gives the same problem. basically, what i'm saying is... RAW is my priority, and Smackdown is likely your general manager's priority. if my logic is faulty somewhere, let's chat, because i haven't had a chance to read through all of Smackdown on the issue.

what is the goal of the pool method? to keep townblocks together? what if we can't put together a good block? i just don't think it's worth the uncertainty of moving scum around.
i'll talk it over with Almost, but that's how i feel now.

/end of message to Titus.

Kmd: are you townreading Dodge?
i disagree on it being bold. McMenno already did it, and a few players (us included) expressed that McMenno was town for doing such a thing, in addition to the biteback he received. at best, it's a null move when it's already occured from someone else, and at worst, the way they did it just doesn't feel good.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

to Smackdown and to us, regarding drafting:

looking at Almost's thoughts about it again, the goal of drafting for any given day could be dependent on how previous lynches have gone. it could be possible to maneuver towards a complete town win for Smackdown and RAW by making decisions based on which brand is doing better. like the example given above, if one brand lynches some scum, they could safely try to take scum from the other brand and help them. sort of a pseudo-lynch, but not really. the same if one brand is only lynching town. they'd of course want to supplement themselves with more town, so it would be important to try and avoid drafting scum and suffering a loss.
with that in mind, i do see how working together on drafting could be helpful. i just don't think they're one certain 'plan' for it.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Spoiler: Almost Chara Talk Again

Yup, it's exactly about keeping blocks together.

There's three major useful strategies I see. The first is the swap back. If at all possible, we send the same person back and forth on two separate nights, barring lynch/murder on the mover. We know then that the number of scum in each thread cannot change but for a range of start+1 to start-1 which helps for PoE.

1) Swap obvtown from both threads. Our thread has what I feel is a solid townblock. Getting obvious town from there over here vets the townblock we have and the new entrant over there can lend a heelping hand.

2) Send the "annoying"/unreadable people back and forth. Not my favorite but maybe dynamics can change things.

3) Send scum suspects for verification. Danger.

Thoughts?

Spoiler: Response

swapback: this is useful for maintaining status quo, but beyond that is not. it doesn't hurt and doesn't help. i'd like to use our drafts more strategically.
1) i could work with this. from the beginning, this is what i expected to happen. you wanting obvtown from us, and us wanting obvtown from you.

2) i'd have to veto this for reasons i already went over.

3) useful in certain conditions, such as when one thread is doing well in lynching scum and can safely take more scum. but that wouldn't verify alignments, and could fool players who have had 'scum' taken away into thinking they have had one less threat to worry about. because the scumspect taken away could still be town.
my preference would be switching between 1 and 3 depending on which brand is doing better. if both brands are doing the same, keep it to 1 to maintain status quo + create new discussion.

[Almost Chara]

Spoiler: Titus+Tywin

GOOD RIDDANCE, I say. ISO me. That's the ONE slot I won't be drafting even if VINCE HIMSELF tells me to. (KT!!!!!!!!!!!!!) << For emphasis

On another note: Can we draft Tywin? I assume you are undraftable on N1. I would settle for Maria (as I TR her) to defuse the situation with you, except I suspect the same will happen here with Nero, and I can't let go of Nero either, so we draft Tywin and massive -hopefully- drafts Narna, 2 obv!Towns. (massive seems to be eying Kmd though). We can reverse the drafts of the same two on N2 if both brands are doing equal progress, or we can switch you with Nero (also N2). Two Townies for 2 Townies, or 1 for 1 back and forth. We are very much willing to cooperate, but only to the extent that we don't get screwed up in here ourselves.

One other thing: I don't think scum on either side know who scum on the other brand are. Vince said GMs could still be scum. If one IS scum the game would be over in 2 days. 2 mislynches + 2 NKs + 2 Scum drafts and it's 4T vs 5S on their thread. That would be ridiculously overpowered. It does give the other brand a better chance of hunting down for that one remaining scum, but who cares? The scum GM won their own respective game. I thus think while Vince had no alternative but to respond that way (otherwise he would be confirming the alignment of a player) you should be treating massive as an IC. (Let me know if I had gone on one of my trips to the moon here).

~A50

[Almost Chara]

This brand IS dead. I'm not gonna have Mr McMahon wiping the floor with my face for you guys. Shape up or be gone already.

I also can't stand quitters, so if anyone doesn't want to play NOW is the time to say so. If you're eying a replace out maneuver; do it now or fight like a man (erm.. a woman in case of Malscap)

Spoiler: SD

@Creature:

What gave you the idea that I might consider drafting you after you #s 827 & 828?

I did have a good laugh out of it, but this is professional WRESTLING, not a "Peter Pan Goes Wrong" kind of comedy theatre.

@Titus:

You were there when KT played with me for the very first time. I kept yelling he was scum, but nobody listened (Yes, I know). From then on he has playing the same as either alignment, and it's annoying as hell. When in doubt, just LYNCH HIM, I say.

I'm undecided on Vifam. That's why asked for Nero's read on him in particular. I was a spectator on The Real Folks Blues and Town!Vifam was GOOD (3 scum out of 3 guesses). We then played with him once (As Almost Chara) and his reads were HORRIBLE, and I called him out on it. We got NK'd on N1 and he WAS scum and went on to win the game.

Here, this is neither version, and I'm not sure if he is scum trying to coast by or is just trying to avoid being obv!Town so he could live longer. *Shrug*

I'm leaning scum on Dodge, but Chara's not as confident. They think he might be derp Town being misread/misunderstood.

It's a pain in the you-know-what to form developed reads based on what has been posted so far in this thread. I have a BIG pile of inactives due to holidays and stuff, and there's no much I can do about it before the New Year's Day.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I'm on an UNOFFICIAL V/LA. I very much think I will be able to meet the deadlines for posting and all, but I'm not exactly available as much as I usually am. This is also temporary so no need to declare official V/LA

Spoiler: Titus

After deliberating with NC we "might" settle for a Grey draft. It's not final yet (we have to see how the day goes on both threads) but we now are leaning Town on him.

KT should be tested tonight for that PR claim. Aside from it, he is agreeing with everything and it's opposite of late. He is OMGUSing everyone who as much as points a finger his way. He calls himself a low hanging fruit to avoid being heavily suspected (exactly the way he acted in that pk modded game).

Hell, I claimed JK once when I was a goon and we had a SCUM JK in our team. I went on to win the game exploiting night results to my favour. I don't know if KT's the type to do THAT though. *Shrug*

About Maria: I still TR her, and very much so. I've only played once with her (I think) though, but I can relate to everything she said so far. I don't see where you have this "Maria is scum" from tbh. Vifam is another story. Some of his posts feel townie, other are scummy. His worst stance though (from my PoV) is that push on you.

So, 3 STRONG Town Reads are you, Tywin & Maria (plus massive is confirmed town if scum DO know who their scum partners on the other thread are). I think that's more than enough for me to know for now about SD as I can only draft ONE player a night, so worst case scenario is Maria gets lynched, you are undraftable, I can draft Tywin (or Grey if I get a stronger town read on him by the end of the day).

@Raw:

I'm not lynching Narna, Nero, McMenno or Leonshade on D1. I'd rather not lynch Kmd either but that's not an absolute/final decision.

I don't like the recent post or two by LUV, and I had a scum lean on DTS for his entrance. Everyone else is in my null pile for lack of proper contribution so far. Hopefully this will change in a few days or I might be inclined to force you to show up, and I mean what I say.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Leon:

I HATE YOU for making me do this. You should know (and most of those who played more than one game with me do know) one of my weakest aspects of the game is trying to make cases, whether these are scum or town cases. I'll do my best though.

Nero came out of the gate blazing. He did not even use his site-meta earned right to RVS, but rather expressed a scum read on KMD and voted there. Furthermore, he didn't hesitate in voicing out hi opinion on SD (sum reading Maria) when it was still debatable whether scum hunting in SD was considered scummy or not.

In other words, Nero makes no reservations and is paying little if any attention how anyone could try to angle-shoot his play. This -to me- is genuine aggressive scum hunting, which makes him Town in my eyes.

As for you, your #31 contained 3 lines: 1: Sarcasm. NAI, 2: defending McMenno. Minor Town credit, 3: Town reading Narna. More Town cred.

Your #71 looks more detailed in why you defended McMenno, and has a true statement in that scum will likely push on a joke as they tend to try to find "something" to start their attack on Town. So, not only did you not join the push, you defended McMenno with reason and logic.

Still, I've put you as my 4th on the list, so if it comes down to you vs Narna, Nero or McMenno I'd be lynching you over any of them. However, I don't wan you gone over anyone else apart from those 3, and we only have one lynch, so I'm trying to narrow down my options for the day.

@Narna:

Unfortunately we canNOT draft KT over here no matter what he says he is. First; until he DOES start producing results there's nothing confirmed about his role to begin with. Second; his play is annoying I'd rather be lynched myself over bringing him to play in my own brand, let alone by my own choice. Third; it's not just me. There are several players who feel uncomfortable with KT's play, and it's not going to be any smoother if we had him here. The noise he produces could very much cloud the air to the point we can't see scum mooning us and brushing their behinds to our faces. Why would I want to poison the air in my brand's thread?

In short, we have several other choices that are all better than KT to bring over here. Titus (if not the one massive picks to be undraftable) is a great choice. Tywin (Obv!Town in my book) is a good choice too. Grey (whom you seem to have reservations over) I have a Town lean on for both his play of late AND Titus being confident of his alignment (Titus can tunnel town thinking they might be scum, but rarely ever gets stubborn over a town read if she's not fairly confident in it). Maria is my own Town read, but I might not draft her for fear she might work as a distraction to Nero. Vifam is another alternative I might consider since both our slot (myself and Chara) and Nero Cain are leaning Town on him.

So, FIVE alternatives to pick from there with 2 that I don't think anyone could argue against.

Suffice it to say, our choices are:

- Titus: Top choice if she is draftable.
- Tywin: No problem here, but Titus wants him there
- Maria: My personal preferred 3rd choice, but Nero doesn't like her
- Grey: Looks like a decent pick, but you (my top Town read) seem to have reservations
- Vifam: May be the best compromise draft if Titus isn't on the table considering they don't like him much there as we do here

P.S. Your feedback is VERY appreciated. I won't try to run this brand as a dictator unless I'm forced to. Both myself and Chara agree that we can properly play our role w/o being total jerks about it.

P-edit:

I may have misunderstood, but if by "double-lynch" you mean using a finisher AND having a normal lynch, I believe Vince said somewhere that someone tapping out WILL end the day. Apologies in advance if I did misunderstand.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

light_ganski

Welcome, wrestler. Are you ready to fight? I need fit bodies and fresh minds in my brand. The crowds demand decent fights on the ring and entertaining behaviour off it. Give them what they want and they'll cheer for you. Be a nobody and they'll treat like one.

Ok.. two mistakes in less than an hour = I should not be posting tonight.

[Almost Chara]

i'm more concerned with the fact that Creature saw what he thought was a setup break and decided to exploit it rather than communicating with the mod.

holidays are over essentially, so i can finally keep my promise to Almost to be active.
i'm more convinced Dodge is town, particularly after recent posting explaining his thought process regarding McMenno.

Narna: fine on the first two, but why light? she replaced in... yesterday.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

never mind. i didn't take that thought to its reasonable conclusion. you were obviously referring to ThinkBig. :>
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Sorry. Honestly this is my first time playing as a hydra and I don't want to commit too much while my other head is absent.

This post is pinging me harder than any other in the thread. I'm trying to see your logic there but can't.

The idea of playing in a hydra is to help each other with reads, yes, but it's also meant to be for covering for each other. If one head is too busy, sick, traveling and what not they rely on the other(s) to fill the void. It's not meant for "secret deliberation" in your own PT then coming up with ONLY what you agree on, thus leaving out other stuff because you simply couldn't agree o it.

This is why I'm getting negative vibes here. It feels like someone doesn't have the confidence to carry the slot on their own for a while and are afraid of messing it up and getting blamed for it. And who feels like that? YEP! Players with RED text in their PMs.

VOTE: Penguinos

P.S. Someone correct me if I'm seeing too much into it. Thank you.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Sorry. Honestly this is my first time playing as a hydra and I don't want to commit too much while my other head is absent.

what are you afraid will happen if your hydra partner comes back and dislikes a read? the worst you can do is talk to them about it.

Leon: what about Dodge's recent posting have you liked?
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Oh, karnos, look what you've done. I take a magical trip to Disney and come back at L-1.

Of course, why no one is reading Dodge as scummy is beyond me.

VOTE: DodgeTheSaint

Dodge is a good townread. you'll have to actually explain why you've chosen him. plus, i'm fairly sure other players have expressed scumreads on the slot, even if they don't feel that way now.

do you have any other reads?
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Above is L-2.

Leon: what about Dodge's recent posting have you liked?
~Chara

I thought his positions were contradictory/fake, but our interactions cleared his stance up for me.

can you be more specific? that's why i asked. you unvoted Dodge just after i said he was an even better townread. which stances/explanations of Dodge changed your feelings.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

I feel like we might be jumping harder on this than normal because we need a jump start, but it's a good enough reason for a wagon at this stage in the day.

this feels like an attempt to say the wagon is too fast, without actually saying it. i don't like the line. strange to see this thought followed immediately by a vote.
do you want Penguin lynched or don't you? what do you mean by stage in the day.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

I just stopped by to say HAPPY NEW YEAR. See you all in 2017 (actually it IS 2017 for me already)

~A50

[Almost Chara]

[quote="In post 348, Lil Uzi Vert"]We also don't even have any idea of who AC is going to draft. It would be nice to know so we can read up on their ISO during Night 1.[/quote

WE don't know "for sure" who would be our draft, since we have no way to know who Massive picked to be his undraftable.

We will submit 2 names; a primary pick and an alternative. If our primary is draftable that will be it. If not, then the 2nd name will be the draft.

^^ This is all mechanics. Now here's the thought process:

We cannot draft massive (he's the manager). We will not draft KT (he's a troll). We don't think Creature has any solid reads (he town reads the whole of our brand) so that's another one we won't be drafting.

The DS sot hasn't produced much on D1 for us to even develop a read there. We don't have a solid read on IaI, so we would rather not risk it; especially given Gamma has flipped Town (he had a scum read there).

I personally keep going back and forth on Pepto, so I guess our options are limited to Titus/Grey/Zefiend/Maria/Tywin/Vifam (of which Titus, Maria and Tywin are solid Town reads of mine).

Titus doesn't want Tywin drafted here though. She suggested Grey, who is not widely Town read on either brands. Maria is obv.Town but my worry is brining her might interfere with Nero's scum hunting (this is already happening over there with Titus). Zefiend is also not too popular as a Town read on either brands.

That leaves us with Titus (primary pick) or Vifam (alternative pick).

And we obviously will be holding on to Nero over here, but we also have no idea who massive would have submitted for his draft picks, so it could be anyone other than Nero who would get drafted to SD.

Does this answer your question?

P.S. If we end up bringing Vifam in, you already know Titus is our draft for N2 (effective on D3), since massive cannot make her udraftable twice in a raw, so we know she'd be available then if she's not tonight.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

my internet's been spotty, i'm getting it fixed but it's been difficult to get a good enough connection to make browsing mafiascum anything more than a chore.
so i'll just say i'm leaving it to Almost and what we've discussed already in the PT.

Leon: i disagree that it was busywork, since you gave me more detail after my question than you had before. that side, i don't have problems with how you came to the read.

Kmd: if that's the case, was it just an idle observation instead of a statement with a point? your response isn't really addressing what i meant. i don't see why you'd bring up that the reason wasn't quite good enough for a 'normal' situation, but was strong enough for this stage. i'm aware you're fine with the lynch. it just sounds like you want it to be known that the reasoning isn't as strong as it could be.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

Hopefully Mr McMahon is wide asleep, so I can sneak in one more post before he locks the thread.

@LUV:

Yes, both heads here agree this is the town version of Titus. That's why she was our #1 pick.

However, since you guys fear she might be monopolizing the thread, I'll put Vifam first and her second. That way I'm like 99% sure Vifam will be our draft (unless massive hasn't decided on his undraftable yet and then it would still be weird of him to submit Vifam over Titus or Tywin). I hope everybody is happy.

Eric Bicshoff on Jan, 2, 2017

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Hello? Is there life on this planet? The last I've learned is we only had one NK, but from the looks of it there might be like 5-6 corpses hidden somewhere than even Mr McMahon doesn't know about still!!!

Come on, people. DON'T let me be mean to you. Let me say this again: I AM YOUR MANAGER. I DO HAVE POWERS that are sure to make you FIGHT. I'm only being patient in hopes that you will be decent enough to provide the crowds with what they came here looking for: A GOOD FIGHT. But if you don't and I see the crowd getting pissed I'm very much inclined to throw you in a cage with no referee and watch you battle it for your life! Do you want a DEATH MATCH?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

VOTE: Uzi

will be caught up tonight. this or mal is a good wagon. Dodge and McMenno are townreads.
~Chara

[Almost Chara]

@LUV:

Then you're probably be even less encouraged by what I have to say.

First off: Your reads SUCK BIG TIME. I'm 95+ % confident Nero is Town. It has to do with both his play and "something mechanical" that I'm not revealing.

Then McMenno is also Town.. like 90%

And -of course- I'm not allowed to vouch for our own slot, so... I'll let those who have played with both heads multiple times before decide on that.

Oh, and let's not forget you didn't even make it a secret you were surprised our strongest Town read actually flipped Town!! (I'm talking about Narna for those who are not closely following this thread).

Now, why do I get the feeling that your scum reads on all 3 of us have all arrived at the most convenient of times right after Nero had said something about him expecting you to scum read the wagon on Penguinos? I know, I know.. you didn't feel too comfortable with McMenno already, but let's agree to disagree there. But how come you are now scum reading Nero and our slot? Is it because Nero is pointing out flaws in your play and we happen to agree? Please show us a case on any of the 3 slots you're scum reading for us to consider.

That should be all for now.

@Vifam:

Now I suspect you do know this, but I wanted to make it absolutely clear that we are Town reading you, and we believe you have good reads. The reason for my personal faith in you was pointed out in our previous game together in which you were scum and I called you out for it, but you somehow managed to discredit yourself as a player to discredit our scum read on you.

Anyway, I'm expecting just a little more from you here, and I'd very much appreciate it if we could lynch scum today with your help.

@Kmd:

I fully agree that “not wanting that lynch doesn't make LUV scum”. HOWEVER, he did not provide an alternative or propose a different course. To me, he did want that lynch. He just didn't want to look connected to it. He tried to earn Town credit by pretending not to want that lynch, but by providing no alternative course he knew we would finally be lynching the Penguinos slot because it's better than a No Lynch by all means.

He claimed the case was weak, right? Yet when asked for his own reads he had no stron scum reads, meaning he wasn't ready to push anyone else, and THAT is my problem (and I think that's what Nero's been trying to say).

@EVERYBODY:

Now get the freak off Nero and McMenno already. There are 3 slots we won't be lynching today and these are Nero, McMenno & Vifam. If you're scum reading any of them; I won't ask you to reconsider, but I WILL ask you to go for the next one on your list.

There are 8 other slots for you to pick from (yes, I'm ok with you voting us and I promise not to interfere with your decision to do so as a manager), but you're not lynching our OBV!Town players. So, either present a good case on someone else or try to obv!Town yourself.
~A50

[Almost Chara]

Oh, shit. One thing more I forgot to mention to LUV: Your question about us getting lynched or

NK'd

is worrying me. That's one more reason why I personally do not feel very comfortable with you. The question itself has been answered a least Twice before on either thread, but the phrasing you used is freaking me out tbh.

Oh, well.. if you're not lynched and we are NK'd then the Town will know for sure who did it. Good luck with that, mate.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

And if he wanted to NK you as scum, why would that question be in thread early Day 2 and not in a scum PT Night 1?

Good point, actually.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

OK, correct me i I'm wrong, but it looks to me that Vifam is suggesting to lynch from within the wagon, while Ms Columbo's promoting a lynch from those who were off it.

In this case I'd like both of you to provide reads on the players on your suggested pool, i.e. Vifam gives reads on everyone who lynched Penguinos and Ms Columbo provides reads on those who didn't vote Penguinos.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

WHY THE HELL WOULD SOMEONE TR MCMENNO.

@Ms Columbo: In that post i said it could be poor reasoning. If people do something irrational it's pretty much impossible to determine alignment from it, let alone from a single post. That's why it's so hard to get a read on people who do random shit, which i assumed could be the case, being a new-hydra and all. And yes, I'm always carefull with my votes, it's not like I guessed there would be a wagon. AC said something about Penguinos that might be scummy, I agreed but didn't vote, and reasoned why (maybe my wording was poor). Dunno why you're making such a fuss about it.

Now then, WHY THE HELL WOULD SOMEONE TR MCMENNO

You want the sarcastic version (my natural response) or the serious one? Since I'm feeling talkative I'll give you both:

Spoiler: Sarcastic response

We are all scum here except you. We are simply trying to protect our scum p.

Oh! That doesn't sound right, now does it? Ok, let me try again: We are all scum here except you AND MacMenno. We thus know his alignment and would rather lynch Scum today so it won't be too obvious we're all scum and are only lynching Town.

Better? Now let's move to the serious (and boringly detailed) response:

I understand McMenno does have a play style that could easily be misread and/or scum read by those who don't know him. It happened to me before.

However,

Spoiler: McMenno Town read explanation

I would say that Scum!McMenno (and I stress on the fact I'm talking about McMenno in precise, not as a general concept) would have never used his submition ability that early and out of the blue.

Scum already knew that it won't last. If they din't through their PMs then they would have asked in their PT. The reason I'm inclined to believe this is the case is that as Town you only have your own PM and your own thoughts (unless you are in a Msonery, in a Neighbouthood or in a hydra) so it is more likely for you skim your PM and not look back at it. However, scum are a group and they share a PT, so if one person doesn't pay attention it is likely that another will. It thus makes sense that it occurred to at least one scumster to ask about the ability they should all see in their PMs. Such question may vary from “Is this ability limited to scum or does everybody have an ability” (Not sure if Kuroi would even respond to it phrased that way) to “how does one end the submission before the target taps outs”?

I know because it occurred to me to ask in our hydra PT since our PM says something like “..unless someone can break it” and I wanted to know how it gets brokenm, so I would excpect someone in the scum team asked similar questons in their PT.

So, given that the ability itself isn't going to actually get someone lynched unless everyone else agreed (it's even weaker than a vote actally, because lyncching by vote requires a majority, but it only takes ONE VOTE to break the submission, and you may refer to yesterday's lynch in this thread for a practical demonstration). I say, given how UNLIKELY for that submission stunt to have gone through; it only serves to draw attention to your slot (and it did) which is the least a Scum!McMenno would have wanted. I mean, “Wow. I didn't even notice McMenno was with us here” still sounds much better tha “Where the hell did McMenno go after doing what he did?”. Right?

It thus follows that McMenno can only be scum if ThinkBig (now Pepchoninga) is his scum buddy, and that was a poor distancing maneuver, and even then I do not see McMenno doing that, aside from the fact Pep's slot has had a null read up until today when Pep has started to provide some content which makes me doubt a scum partnership between the two (You don't think the whole scum team is lurking it out, do you?)

Now I could go on forever trying to show you why McMenno is 90% Town in this game, but I don't want you to hate me for it. So, I will just..

suffice it to say: It's a combination of a read on the slot itself and the player in question in particular, and what I would expect from them as either alignment. Mcmenno does not strike me as the “drama king” type of player. His play is much more simple and straightforward than to do this just to distance himself from a scum buddy and/or to draw attention to his slot and then pull the “I wouldn't have done it if I was scum” card, so he is very much likely Town.

Now please let us know if you think more likely that MORE THAN ONE scum were on the mislynch wagon or if it's more likely that they tried to avoid it and let the Town misfire on their own?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Pepchoinga:

Just so you know, neither of us (Myself and Chara) are good in roleplaying. However, we are encouraged to act in-role as per Kuroi's request. I don't even know our character (I never cared for anyone but the wrestlers themselves and what we usually get here is the entry of the gladiators to the ring then the match and that's it, so I wouldn't know much about the managers).

Tell me how you think Eric Bicshoff would motivate his fighters (in a spoiler) and I would gladly copy and paste it every time I needed to do a similar speech.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

who the hell asks to be replaced by himself?

Totally irrelevant; but Varsoon did in Bordelands (he was signed in with a troll account named I_Am_Not_I_Am_Not_Varsoon, so I find it quite similar to the McMenno/Not_An_McMenno_Hydra case even in the name of the alt)

[Almost Chara]

Assuming they are not scum this is fucking pathetic coming from (one head) a site mod.

I'm inclined to agree with the pathetic part regardless of alignment.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

OK.. let's try this: Everybody pick someone absolutely unlynchable for you. Just ONE player (of this brand's current roaster)

Also: Nominate TWO names you want to see gone (I mean LYNCHED, not just traded out).

I'm going to keep a public record of your picks, and please do THINK before you respond because yo cannot change your mind later, but you absolutely do need to submit the requested 3 names (one unlynchable, 2 you want lynched).

Unlynchable:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -
Kmd4390 -
Almost Chara -

Nero Cain

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Banana Mint -
DodgeTheSaint -
Vifam -
Nero Cain -
Malpascp -

To be lynched:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -
Kmd4390 -
Almost Chara -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

Malpascp

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Banana Mint -
DodgeTheSaint -
Vifam -
Nero Cain -
Malpascp -


~A50

P.S. If anyone wants to provide a complete read list on either RAW, Smackdown or BOTH; you're most welcome. Please do keep it separate from the requested response from above though. We don't want to end up confused between your general reads and your recommended alternatives.

Oh, and while at it, the 2 for the lynch should probably be independent of each other, i.e. it is not recommended to propose a lynch on someone your scum read on is dependent on your other lynch recommendation, because -obviously- if you're wrong on the first one then you're wrong on the other and you'd actually be recommending two Townies to be lynched. Please consider all scenarios you may think of, evaluate the most probable ones, and make your picks based on which one(s) you think are the most likely to flip scum AND give us a clue on whom their partners might be.

THANK YOU.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Welcome again, Math

@Dodge:

No need to apologize, but it would still be nice if you put your 3 picks explicitly in one post. I know Nero must be one of your lynches, but who would be another whom you Scum red INDEPENDENTLY from your Nero read? In other words, assuming Nero is Town; who would be your other lynch pick? And who is your one and only hat you will absolutely not consider lynching today.

@Kmd:

THANK YOU. I may get back to you with a couple of questions about some of your picks/reads, but what matters to me now is that you did provide answers and in the format I requested, so -once again- thanks you

P.S. Math has replaced banana mint

@Math:

In post #600; is "I just want Almost Chara to say they have what they need first." a reference to my request of 3 names or something else?

Also, I see what you say about the Masons Vig shots, but it could be 2 shots and not necessarily unlimited shots. Still, your point is well taken there. Nice catch.

@Dodge:

Thanks, buddy. Got your picks. I agree on Vifam being Town, but we seriously disagree on your lynch picks. Will get back to that later.

Also, drafting Maria/Pepto is out of the question at this point. If they're Masons this would be the most anti-Town play ever as it would break their power.

What I CAN do though is draft either Titus or Tywin (both TRs) to avoid them being the target of another stunt like that.

Now what bothers me more about that Vig is not that it was used on Town (I wouldn't have called Creature "obv" Town myself. I simply can't read him at all), but the fact that it came after Maria's #382 (which Math quoted here) saying she thinks they shouldn't use their Vig shots because lynches give more info, but it could be blamed on the fact hey were pushed too hard they wanted to prove their Masons claim. It was still bad play regardless.

Almost painfully relevant.

Everytime you start a sentence with "Almost" (with a capital A) I get alerted to respond thinking you're talking to/about me.

@Math:

Yes, LyLo "could" happen as early as D3 but it's extremely unlikely. This is because if we mislynch twice and have 2 NKs on the first 2 nights, and assuming a 10-3 setup on each brand this means we are down to 6 vs 3 from that alone. Now add the drafting mechanics and if we only draft ONE scum and one Town over the 2 nights (and 2 Town get drafted from our brand to SD) we start D3 with 5 Townies vs 4 Scum, i.e. LyLo.

Um.. erm.. ok.. I take back the 2-shots Mason proposition. I don't see how we could have TWO Town Vigs tbh. never have seen it before, but I'll give it a teeny weeny little chance of being the case if it was done for a reason like we have 2 threads, but then there should be a mechanic either preventing you being drafted there and them being drafted here OR preventing both Vig shots from resolving successfully on the same night if both occur in the same thread, and we didn't get notified of such a limitation on our drafting picks in our PMs so option one is most probably null. (Btw, why do I feel the game has just become too complicated with that revelation? Did you really HAVE to claim so prematurely??)

TBC

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

I would appreciate it if you gave everyone who didn't respond to my request yet to do so before we end the day.

As for reading you, what's there to read? You were a Town lean by the opening few posts YOU did (not your predecessor though), but now you have gone and full claimed Vig, which I can't see you doing as Scum when both myself and Chara are here, so you are 95% Town by now, and you can join Nero, Menno & Vifam in my No Lynch pool.

Erm, what 4+ killing roles?? Wait. The submission thing all wrestlers have is NOT a Vig shot. Technically it is, but it only needs ONE lousy vote to be voided, so it's nothing but a flavour scenery.. a decoration of the game if you will. For a submission move to actually result in it's target being lynched it has to be a unanimous decision by all living players, which is even harder to achieve than the normal lynch.

Now if that is NOT what you meant, then please tell us what other Town killing Roles we have aside from yours and the claimed Masons' (which should count for one for all practical purposes).

Btw, I'm at the start of page 26 and here's the public count of my request so far:

Unlynchable:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -
Kmd4390 –

pepchoninga

Almost Chara -

Nero Cain

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -

Nero Cain

DodgeTheSaint -

Vifam

Vifam -
Nero Cain –

Almost Chara

Malpascp -

To be lynched:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -
Kmd4390 -

Malpascp

+

Mathblade

Almost Chara -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

Malpascp

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -

Pepchoninga

+

DodgeTheSaint

DodgeTheSaint -

Nero Cain

+

McMenno

Vifam -
Nero Cain -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

DodgeTheSaint

Malpascp -


~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Dodge:

You don't seem to fully get it. BOTH brands are playing the same game and there is a drafting mechanic in application. Setup spec based on flipped/claimed roles on the other thread is not out of the question because ANYONE (but the brand GM) could be switching their "playfield" at any given twilight, so roles mus've been designed to maintain the overall balance as well as the internal balance within each brand separately (and I'm no mod at all, so I don't know HOW this could be done, but I just know it should be the case).

*ROTFL*

Math, are you trying to eat a bullet for the Town? What the heck are you doing fully claiming all your role details?? I mean, I concede that you obv!Towned more than I could have ever hoped for, but you also put a BIG RED X on your back.

@Dodge:

Wrong again, my friend. Let's say (and this is strictly a hypothetical proposition) that SD achieved their win con by the start of D3. This tells us both their drafts were scum and thus if the game doesn't end here already then we have ONE scumster to be looking for. If SD does NOT get locked by the start of D3, then AT LEAST one of their drafts is Town, if not both, or we may start suspecting one of our own drafts is scum. You can do the math for if Scum achieve their win con by the END of D3, or the beginning of D4, but the point is both brands have everything to do with each other.

@Dodge:

OK, so I've gone through your ISO from D1 starting at the top of page 12 until the EoD, and I fail o recognize a question directed at us, except the one when you asked if you missed anything after having fantasized a hypothetical conversation with us (which I found entertaining, btw).

Ok, call me dumb and please restate pr rephrase your question.

@Almost Chara -- I won't shoot til you get everyone's input.

Do you townread Dodge?

I did at one point during your interaction with him. I had the feeling he was Towning it up. But then came the "Where did they claim?" vs "I know what post you're referring to." thing and these two posts were only separated by 3 minutes, so I retracted my Town lean on them at that point.

TBH, I'm not sure enough about Dodge's alignment. I would rather Mal or LUV be the target of the vig shot, but then it's YOUR shot, and I have no strong reason to stop it from being directed at Dodge either. I mean, I WOULD have stopped it if it was on you, Nero, Vifam or Nero (and I have a problem with Nero Scum reading Vifam here, but that can wait bc neither looks like being lynched/vigged today).

@Vifam/Malpascp:

Are you guys ignoring me or what? If you have reason not to comply to my request at least say so so we know whom we are waiting for and whom we're not. Thanks in advance.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Yes, you're damn right I called myself the most protown voice this thread has. I can hear your laughter Nero, deal with it.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

In my mind, Nero would be laughing ONLY if he IS Town, because what you say (you being "the most protown voice") sounds ridiculous to TOWN!Nero.

If he is Scum though, while he might still be laughing there's nothing for him to be "dealing with" because he already knows you're Town.

So, are you saying Nero is Town and will have to deal with your green flip, or are you -as numerously declared everywhere- Scum reading him?? <- this is obviously a rhetorical question that doesn't need to be answered. It is to make a point that the phrasing makes it more likely that you think Nero is Town, which -in turn- makes you Scum for your push on him. EVEN if you somehow flip Town, then you certainly are NOT playing "pro-Town".

Again, why should I discuss things with you when you aren't actually reading my posts? How is that helpful to the town? I would have loved to have a nice discussion about my reads that you could take into the next day phase, but repeatedly you've shown no interest in bettering your reads so...

IF you're Town, the right thing to do is leave a detailed read list with reasoning.. do the best that you can, so when you do flip green people might want to consider it. If you're being Scum read generally nobody's going to consider anything you say while you're alive anyway.

However, your responses and arguments are making me think you are stalling no more. This post I'm quoting cannot be coming from a Town mindset that cares to solve the game and ensure the Town has a chance to win.

Furthermore, I'm telling you Nero is Town. Math is telling you Nero is Town. You may not trust me, but you sound like you do trust Math blade is Town. You should thus reconsider your unreasonable and unsubstantiated Scum read on Nero, or -at least- provide a read list with Nero as Scum and another with Nero as Town.

As for my comment that you said it could not have come from Town.. guess what? It just did. I checked the time stamp on both your posts, and found they were only 3 minutes apart. I struggle to see how you looked up something that you didn't even know what it was in 3 minutes. Sure, if it was said that Almost crumbed something when he said "yadda yadda" then 3 minutes is good enough to search for the "yadda yadda" text. But when it's vague and doesn't mention what I said to begin with you are looking for something you have to read and comprehend first and then type up your response, and I find it hard to do so in 3 minutes. Maybe I'm a slow reader AND a slow typist (in fact I know I am) but still I doubt it can be done.

Math said it was had to do in 15 minutes, but there were no 15 minutes between your posts. There were no 10 minutes either. There were only THREE minutes between them.

Now let me tell what I'm thinking right now: by post #761 you must either be a pathetic Town player who has decided to punish the Town because they thought he was scum, OR a GOOD Scum player who decided to shut off discussion to cover for his buddies. O really have no way to figure out which w/o you flipping and with your continuous brushing of any attempt Math has provided you to engage them in a positive way.

I'll continue catching up, but I wanted you to know how your attitude strikes me at this very moment.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

You need to specifically kill me. I'm not having my mislynch hang over the town in MyLo or LyLo. Even if someone convinces you I'm town you still have to do it I'm afraid.

God damn it! This is scary.

I mean, a Jester needs to die by LYNCH, not a Vig shot. I only saw a Jester in action once anyway, and it wasn't even on MS, so I don't think that's what it is.

I was a Martyr once and I had to e NK'd to win. There was no Day Vig in that game though.

Yet, somehow I'm starting to get the feeling Dodge wants to be shot on purpose, and I can't think of either a Town motive or a Scum motive behind it, but I also find it hard to believe Kuroi would use a generic 3P role in this setup.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Unlynchables: Kmd4390, Dodge.
Lynchables: MathBlade, Nero

You can't be serious. I mean, I'l count it as your pick, but I can't see how you could possibly scum read BOTH Nero AND Mathblade when they're the only two players actually doing any scum hunting a all! Without them we would have probably failed to produce 15 pages since the game started!!!

This is bull. AC is skating by and the lynchable and unlyncable talk is busy work.

So you say. I'll hold you to that in a bit.

Splitting up smackdown's masons is a horrible idea FOR SMACKDOWN. It doesn't hurt this game though. It helps because we are getting a town player. Their ability is doing nothing for us anyway as long as they are in smackdown.

Kmd, my friend.. let me simplify matter for you:

If Maria+Peptom are Town Masons (and I'm inclined to believe their claim bc I was TRing Maria even before the claim) then one of them is probably going to get NK'd tonight (if for nothing else then to break their combined power). Agreed so far?

Now, let's say I decide to draft one of them here. In this case I'd be giving the SCUM an option NOT to shoot either of them and go for someone else, while we still have no "mod confirmation" of the alignment of either, thus those who scum read them will continue to do so, and all we would have achieved is break their power.

That OR, scum can shoot them BOTH in one go, seeing as the drafting process is PUBLIC and it PROCEEDS the night action, so technically we will enter the night with one of them in RAW and he other in SD and there's absolutely nothing to stop Scum on both sides from targeting the duo at the same night.

You have to "think like a scum" if yo want to catch scum and/or trump their moves.

Now, tell me again why I should consider drafting a Mason tonight in light of the above mentioned reasoning, and I may start listening.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

I forgot to respond to this:I canNOT make Nero undraftable today. I already did that yesterday, and I can't pick the same person twice in a raw.

Anyway, I'm starting to get the feeling Ms Columbo & McMenno won't be responding to me regarding this, and LUV has explicitly expressed his disliking of the idea, so.. shoot at will.

Unlynchable:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga –

Kmd4390

Kmd4390 –

pepchoninga

Almost Chara -

Nero Cain

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -

Nero Cain

DodgeTheSaint -

Vifam

Vifam -

Lil Uzi Vert

Nero Cain –

Almost Chara

Malpascp -

Mathblade

To be lynched:

Ms. Columbo -
Pepchoninga -

Mathblade

+

Nero Cain

Kmd4390 -

Malpascp

+

Mathblade

Almost Chara -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

Malpascp

McMenno -
Lil Uzi Vert -
Mathblade -

Pepchoninga

+

DodgeTheSaint

DodgeTheSaint -

Nero Cain

+

McMenno

Vifam –

McMenno

+

Kmd4390

Nero Cain -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

DodgeTheSaint

Malpascp -

Lil Uzi Vert

+

McMenno

Oh, also.. it'd be Titus or Tywin (someone who has a "tie" at the start of their username :lol) that we're drafting today. Can you like, not fight too much with your sister though? I mean, THAT is my one worry there, as I'm Town reading BOTH of you.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

OK.. HOLD ON YOUR SHOT, MATH.

I will -once again- try to not be a total ass about it. We clearly still hold the majority here, so it should be a Town motivated draft even if scum are trying to direct it.

IMPORTANT: NO OTHER OPTIONS ARE VALID BUT THE ONES YOU ARE GIVEN BELOW.

1- Draft MariaR with Pepto as the backup pick
2- Draft Titus with Tywin as the backup pick

I vote (2), and I know at least Math agrees, but I'll let them cast their vote on their own. (And especially so when the alternative is Titus whom Math is also suspicious of, so for Math it's a choice between 2 evils. Sorry about that. ).

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Dodge:

You may also vote on whom we draft. If you do flip Town as you claim it will counted. If you flip Scum though it will be voided. How abou that?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Keeping MariaR and Pepto on SD is the towniest move for them. If that leads to dead scum on SD, it also decreases the chance of scum to be drafted into RAW. So no, don't draft the masons.

Pedit: tbh I also don't know who to draft from SD, will take another look at their thread

No you won't. It's an either/or, and your vote counts towards Titus being the draft pick, so it's 2-2 now.

The reason I had to make it an either/or and not an open vote is if you look at who is lynchable and who is not so far you will find:

McMenno @ 3-0 for their lynch
LUV @ 3-1
Mal & Dodge @ 2-0 each
Math @ 2-1
Nero @ 2-2
Pep & Kmd @ 1-1 each
Almost & Vifam @ 0-1 each
and Columbo not getting a mention yet.

Notice anything?? The MAXIMUM we can get an agreement is THREE (out of 11 players) and that's with TWO votes each.

You may also check yesterday's draft discussions with almost every single person having their own preference and some threatening one thing or another if we draft X or Y.

In sum, if we consult everyone and let them choose from a pool of 9 wrestlers alive in SD we are likely to get a pool of 6-8 picks with the leading pick having no more than 2 votes for. I hope you understand what I'm getting at, but hanks for the feedback anyway

P-edit:

@Dodge:

How about your read on massive? Do you have one?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

zefiend

Please choose between the provided two options. Unless you mean to tell me you're scum reading all 4 of them!!

~A50

I hereby PROMISE I will NEVER play a game with my original account at the same time I'm playing with my hydra!! I can't believe I'm making so many hydra slips when I'm using TWO DIFFERENT BROWSERS (Well, I'd still be using Almost50 for the hydra PT anyway...)

[Almost Chara]

zefiend

Please choose between the provided two options. Unless you mean to tell me you're scum reading all 4 of them!!

~A50

I believe the claim so I see no reason to break up the masons.
I don't think Titus will work well over here, we just drafted Vifam.
Tywin looks to have siteflaked.

Oh! I didn't know Tywin flaked. That would very much pose a problem there indeed.

[Almost Chara]

Because I find it very unlikely a mod would put in a town one shot vig, a town doctor/killer, AND infinite shot vig masons.

But what if they were limited shots, say 2X?? Would that change the situation/read for you??

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Because I'm gonna be very annoyed if after having to suffer through your grandstanding is that I'll be watching you continue to follow Nero and AC on Day 3.

Just a FYI, if I've learned anything about Math's play as either alignment in any given game it's they NEVER "follow" anyone. I mean NEVER. They always have their own thoughts, their own logic and their own reads.

Ok, let's play a little game. Let's pretend that I Town read you and you Town read me back. Now give me your top 3 Scum reads in this brand with proper and sufficient reasoning (I'll even let you decide the definition of "proper" and "sufficient"). You think you can do that?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I believe the claim so I see no reason to break up the masons.

Also, reading this again I see you see it my way. Doesn't that give you a pose or an urge for second thoughts?

I mean, Scum!Me would certainly want to execute the Masons, and we have even been provided with "an out" to do it. I we're Scum them it's likely the Masons aren't really Masons. so, why do you choose to believe they are indeed Masons while simultaneously being suspicious of our slot?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Also I literally want no other outcome than you shooting me, so please stop with the 'woe is me he's trying to scare me into not shooting him' nonsense. No, I'm trying to shame you into playing better. I don't use the word shame to make you feel bad, I use it to make a point because you've stuck yourself into a confirm bias spiral.

Once again, this is a HORRIBLE stance IF you are Town. You should ONLY want to be lynched/vigged if it benefits the Town if you have Town win con. Are you a Super Saint or a Vengeful Townie by any chance? I mean, THAT could be it, and would make your persistence on getting Vigged understandable and even plausible.

~A50

P-edit: "IF we're Scum then.."

[Almost Chara]

Why does AC know that mafia on this brand would know who the mafia on the other brand are?

I don't, and I have systematically promoted the opposite. It's not even implied in my argument directed at LUV.

What I'm saying is if we are inclined to believe Maria + Pepto are Town Masons with multiple Vig shots it'd be best for SCUM to break that bond.

On the other hand I can now see that it might not be the case if Scum believe the Masons' next Vig target is likely to be Town as well, so it's one more reason for me to draft in Tywin/Tius (and right now we have 3 votes in favour of that couple and 2 in favour of the Masons).

Hmmm.. Grey may work for me, but I recall someone strongly objected to that one on D1. I just can't remember whom that was.

Tywin is a sure success if we decide to draft him, because he was massive's undraftable pick on D1, so he WILL be available today. The problem is LUV says he flaked site, and we have no idea how good a payer his replacement will be. I mean it's not "just" about Town reading your draft, but how good they are so that they can actually give you a boost in trying to solve the puzzle, providing accurate reads and being able to promote them successfully leading to the right lynches. I know Titus can don that, and we all know massive is very likely to draft Nero today.

Are the likes of McMenno & Ms Columbus still playing, btw?? They're the only ones -aside from LUV- who didn't respond to my first request and they also have not given an indication on whom they think we should draft. In fact, they haven't posted at all since I asked!

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

You cannot be the NK AND the draft. This is how it works though:

After we achieve our lynch (or Vig in today's case) this thread will be put in a Twilight phase, during which we send the mod our undraftable pick as well as the two draft pick in order (We will always draft the first one unless they ARE the undraftable player of the day, in which case we will automatically draft the second choice).

After that, Vince (Kuroi) will post on both threads telling you guys who was undraftable on either brand and who got drafted. THIS ends the twilight phase and starts the night phase.

So, until the drafting process is completed and announced I don't think anyone can submit a night action because it is technically not yet the night phase.

Also, it'd be TYWIN, but I seriously doubt massive is going to draft you over Nero. We shall see.

Btw, Tywin last posted on this site less than 36 hours ago. that's not flaking. He wouldn't even be due a prod if the SD thread was open!

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Now who do you suggest should be undraftable?? It can't be Nero and you don't want to be... who's your strongest TR outside of Nero and our slot (which cannot be traded bc we are the GM)

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I thought I could be NK'd after drafted? Meh. Thanks for fixing that. Still want to be draftable just in case.

If I am not drafted would prefer Titus over there.

Pedit: Mal

You could be, but by the scum in SD, not over here. maybe I misunderstood what you were saying, so I'll just reiterate: Drafting occurs first and before the night phase. By the night start the drafted players officially belong to their new brands, so are subject to night action on the new brand but no longer in the original one. A tracker from RAW could not have tracked Leon last night because Leon was already in Smackdown by the start of the night. A tracker in Sd could have though.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Ok, regardless of all these complicated assumptions.. I'm assuming massive wants Nero because I got the impression he wanted him already yesterday, but was blocked by me picking Nero to be undraftable.

However, I do understand that massive is likely following this thread as well and he may choose to draft you instead. I mean, I couldn't understand his draft pick yesterday, and I won't try to figure out how his mind works. Different strokes for different folks as they say.

So, Mal is my undraftable, Tywin is my draft, and with Tywin guaranteed to be open for the draft I don't even need to submit a back up name.

Now let's see a red flip if you please.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I believe the claim so I see no reason to break up the masons.

Also, reading this again I see you see it my way. Doesn't that give you a pose or an urge for second thoughts?

I mean, Scum!Me would certainly want to execute the Masons, and we have even been provided with "an out" to do it. I we're Scum them it's likely the Masons aren't really Masons. so, why do you choose to believe they are indeed Masons while simultaneously being suspicious of our slot?

~A50

I don't like this post. Seems to me, like it's just a way to manipulate the other players into an ultimate misslynch/bad decisions.

A mislynch on WHOM? I clearly said time and time again that I'm TOWN READING MARIA. How does that lead to a mislynch on her or Pepto??

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Or in this case a miss vig shot.

Mate, what ARE you talking about? Are you even reading and comprehending?

The Vig shot HAS been triggered on Dodge, and it has always been the intention of Math to shoot there.

The post you're referring to was me responding to LUV, who is NOT even the Vig target.

And if you're talking about the future (just in case you are); Math has already claimed a ONE SHOT Vig, so they're not going to shoot anyone anymore.

Please let me know if I had misunderstood something, because what I did understand doesn't make sense anyway I look at it.

~A50

@Vince:

You have my consent & approval of giving Math ONE more Vig shot, provided they ONLY shoot me if I do this again!

[Almost Chara]

It's a joke, Math. I make a lot of hydra slipping, and it's starting to be annoying even to me.

[Almost Chara]

Sleep tight

[Almost Chara]

<redacted>

I rarely ever use vulgarity, but this was so frustrating I went off my way for a second and had to reedit upon revision.

WHY Tywin? And why do it HERE? I'm sure he had something to say that would have probably helped us in this thread as he seemed to be quite the scum hunter. *Sigh*

I have yet to read anything n SD, but I'm going to have to do an ISO of Tywin soon to see how he viewed the situation on both threads.

I have one more thing to say, but -for fear it might be misunderstood- I'm going to keep it to myself for now.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

I have yet to read anything on SD TODAY. I've just got in, so reading my own thread first. That's what I meant. I haven't even opened the hydra PT yet to see if Chara had anything to say.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

Alright, but first let me reassure you I am TOWN READING Vifam. This may be lost!Vifam or even apathetic!Vifam, bu it's NOT Scum!Vifam if I know anything about his scum game.

However, what I was referring to is the fact Scum opted to off Tywin before he could say a single word here, but were fine letting Vifam live. WHY?

My guess is Vifam has not been too active (true) coupled with him going after the wrong people (can't prove that yet). Tywin must'd had GOOD reads on THIS thread and him obviously being a driving force meant he was probably going to pose a threat to scum in here.

The reason I wanted o keep my mouth shut about it for now if I see a notion to lynch Vifam for some ridiculous proposition. I mean, mislynch on purpose in OUR brand to confrim the Masons in the OTHER brand?? Why would we want to willingly put ourselves in LyLo (assuming we started with 3 scums in each thread) to start with??

For the record: Mathblade is top tier TOWN, followed by both McMenno & Vifam. Mal is likely Town too, but I'm not betting on it.

On SD; Titus, Nero, Leon, Maria & Pepto are all Town. massive is very much likely Town too. That leaves DS, Grey & Zefiend in my lynch pool if I had any say in the matter.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Anyway, that's my read on Vifam. I have seen his Scum game most recently and he was MUCH more active than this. He also had solid reads (which were rubbish, mind you, but he kept on pushing them like a nutter regardless). You've seen his Town game at least once and while he still probably was a bit more active than this he had fewer reads and was less certain (similar to what he's doing right now).

I acknowledge it's be possible he is replicating his Town game, but I very much doubt it at this point, and I really wouldn't want to lynch him today unless something BIG happens that indicates I have been reading him the wrong way all this time.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Titus AND Leon??

Ok, so let's get over the shock and look at te bright side: Vifam has just been MOD CONFIRMED TOWN!

First off, even if we started with 3 scums in each thread Leon left us and made THEM 4 on SD. We did NOT recruit scum because they would have been down to 3 again in SD if we did. Tywin already flipped (BIG loss for us) but Vifam is here and HE IS TOWN.

Mathblade is all but confirmed Town to me. Yeah, I know you hate the word "confirmed" so I'll rephrase it to "as good as" confirmed. Better? Thank you.

McMenno is still a Town read for me, but he's being mostly useless at this point. Mal is working his way up my read list so he's tied @3rd with McMenno.

I REALLY have no clue which of the rest of players to suspect for being scum. Te good thing is we now know we have room for error still, but the bad news is I don't want to push our luck.

Btw, I owe DS an apology. I had him put as a scumster next to Zefiend and Grey in #1072 and it was mainly because of his push on Tywin which didn't bode well with me.

@Vifam:

As you are now

the

confirmed Townie over here, could you please try to invest just a little bit more time and effort for a few hours? All I need is one or 2 names you suspect of being scum over here with some confidence. Something like you did in

The Real Folks Blues

. You know, I have been promoting you for an established scum hunter, so prove me right

Oh, one more thing: I'm NOT an investigative. Math got that wrong. Since Nero is no longer with us nor can he be recruited back (Thanks for nothing, massive ) I can reveal that he was a neighbourizer, and he actually added us to his neighbourhood on the 1st night, so we were in contact with him all of D2 in private. I could not have seen a scum neighbourizer in this setup, but I also said it was an INCONCLUSIVE mechanical reason. So, that was it.

Now I (actually we all do) need to ISO Tywin to see what his reads were on RAW. We also need to look at those who kept pushing Nero for a scumster (but that could still be derp Town, so it is less important to me at this point).

Vifam: Talk to me, mate. Help me out here.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

So Titus being scum makes vifam pretty obvtown, right?

No, not just obv!Town.. CONFIRMED is the right term. Unless you think they started with 4 scumsters in a 13 players roaster over there!

[Almost Chara]

OK, so..

1- Nero was suspicious of Uzi/Mal/Pep/KMD. He thought 2 of them + Dodge might be it. With Nero not being a target of the NK I can see Ms Columbo being one of the scums; if not the only one left here (I'm leaning 2 though). Nero is loud and can force lynches, ad with Leon now confirmed Scum there's no question in my mind that the Scum team in SD knew who their peers here are, if not from the start then -at least- since the start of D2.

2- Tywin's last words in SD (about RAW) were scum reading KMD & -to a much lesser degree- LUV. He was Town reading Titus and Zef in SD and he got into a TvT with DS, so he could not have been killed for anything related to SD. He probably got shot for scum reading either of KMD or LUV (or both).

My own lynch pool consists of KMD (weakest Sr though), Ms Columbo, Pep & LUV, but from the two points above I'd say Pep is likely Town, and -unless someone can make a case against him- KMD remains slightly above of Ms Col/LUV at this time, meaning I'll support a lynch on either of the two.

But HOLD ON. We need NOT be as reckless as SD. They have lynched before us ON ALL THREE DAYS, and it has cost them the game. I want thorough reads and thorough discussions first, and I would appreciate it if the two in question cases on why we should not lynch them and/or why the other is a better lynch.

Doing ISO's of the 4 yields:

KMD voted Leon early into the game, but then liked his reaction responding to us. The rest of his ISO seems consistent and I think this could be Town still.

LUV was the first to vote Dodge as early as #154, which makes his behaviour around that lynch a bit cocky. He tunneled Nero for some odd reason, but the worst play of his came around the end of D1 when he was dancing around the Penguinos lynch, refusing to vote there but never offering an alternative.

LUV also Scum read us and McMenno, and suggested we draft zefiend (post #842). He opposed the draft of Tywin claiming he flaked the site when Tywin wasn't even in prod range yet. Also #907 is horrible, considering math's win con IS the Town win con. THIS IS SCUM!

Ms Columbo's ISO is mostly hollow. I can't make anything out of it, so I'd appreciate it if anyone else could.

Pep is the replacement for TWO players who hadn't offered us anything in their time. However, I'll treat his slot as of the time he had replaced in. His comment in #501 on my #115 is meh, but if he IS scum with LUV then it figures. They wanted to eventually get rid of our drafting force because we were drafting STRONG TOWN players (as is now proven). He also openly opposed Nero all the way, and his lynchable picks were laughable .. Mathblade & Nero (Two STRONG Town players). He even kept dismissing our hint about Nero being "mechanically likely Town".

I am leaning Pep + LUV for a scum team here, with Ms Columbo as the wild card in case either of them is a really bad Town player.

I'm open to hearing cases against KMD (town lean after that ISO), McMenno Town read) and Mal (Also TR), but you're not touching Mathblade or Vifam.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Oh, I missed this bit. By the end of D2; Pep was defending the Masons in SD. Now why would SCUM defend he Masons?? That takes Pep a step higher than LUV on my list. I want LUV flipped today. What do you all think?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Lynch away if you want, I know I'm town but I don't have the effort to defend myself against bullshit.

I honestly don't want to be mean to you or tell you how to play, but if your defense is dismissing everything brought against you as BS, then I'm afraid the whole game of Mafia isn't for you, my friend.

This game is about defending yourself and trying to prove you're Town if you are, or trying to wiggle your way out of being caught as scum. It's that simple.

The fact the Town aligned players don't know each other from the start makes it very likely that they will see poor play as scummy play, and it's the player's responsibility to explain how their play came from a townie mindset.

That being said, I genuinely do not think you are a poor player, and thus I'm inclined to assume your play did come from the mindset of a scumster.

Also, in the off chance you're really a poor town player, refusing to defend yourself and calling for your own lynch at this point is practically throwing the game away, i.e. playing against your own win con.

If this was D1 I'd have lynched you in a heartbeat, tbh. However, I am trying to avoid a third mislynch in a row. It'd be a shame if we lost to a lone scumster or a duo at most. The guys on SD can blame it on the drafting of an additional scumster into their brand, but we had one TAKEN OFF so we should be able to avoid the embarrassment.

VOTE: LUV

Talk to me. Tell me why I should not think you're scum. Tell me what was going through your mind when you refused to work with me on D2. Tell me why did you think Zefiend of all was a good draft. Tell me why you claimed Tywin had flaked the site when he had posted less than 48 hours before you said he did. Tell me why you were pushing Nero so hard and didn't even consider what I said about him being MECHANICALLY semi-clear. Why didn't you even ask what that meant if you thought it wasn't clear or true?

Tell me, do you still scum read me? If so, WHY? IF you're Town, I want you to show me that you are. I don't have access to your role PM, and thus I cannot tell your role/alignment for sure. Al I see is anti-Town play and stances, and then a refusal to even engage, which is EXACTLY what I'd expect a noob!scum would do.

How come you had "nothing to do" with BOTH mislynches we had, yet have not offered a case on any alternative?

Last chance, pal. IF you're Town, THIS is the time to show it. Otherwise I'm strongarming your lynch today. I'm really starting to lose my patience here, and if I didn't scum read you already THIS would have been enough for me to do so now. And besides, Nero is now MOD CONFIRMED TOWN, so his reads are a tad more cedible to me, and you going against him is one more nail in your coffin.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

AC is likely town because of PR results on Nero claimed. If he doesn't get killed before LyLO then reexamine here.

Did you read my posts? I explicitly explained it was NOT an investigative PR claim, but rather a reference to Nero's neighbourizing ability with which he targeted us on N1. WE ARE NOT AN INVESTIGATIVE PR.

[Almost Chara]

@Math:

1- You're assuming a PR claim that wasn't there!!!
2- You're assuming a total of 7-8 scum in a 26 player game!!!
3- You're assuming Scum knew who there partners in the other thread were!!!

Ok, I'll play. Instead of all the moonlogic complications you have posted today, why wouldn't Scum! have drafted at least one scumster (since you proposed Scum!Me would also know ho was scum there!). In what world would Scum!Me prefer a scum win in Smackdown over one in my own brand??

Also, in what world is drafting Tywin who was going 1-on-1 with TOWN!DS a good scum move? It was obvious the lynch on SD would be between DS/Tywin/the Masons today. Bringing in Titus/Grey would have been GREAT for the scum in RAW. Hell, I could have brought in Zef and had them shoot conf!Town Vifam already, and it would have cooled LUV's down on our slot.

Do you realize if we had an additional scumster over here it would have meant 3 on SD and with the lynch on Pepto breaking the Masons move already they'd be going into the night as 5 vs 3 and into D4 as 4 vs 3? Then Scum could bus Grey for the stunt he did and still go into D5 on LyLo, only they would still have DS vs Tywin & Titus vs Nero and just ONE Town vote on either of DS/Tywin/Nero would win them the game, and it was still most probable that one of DS/Tywin would be voting the other.

Alternatively, Tywin/DS eats rope TODAY (D3) and then the Masons are still alive to suspect tomorrow and Grey can do his stunt THEN and the game ends on D4.

I mean, ANYWAY you put it I'd have to be playing against the Scum in SD when I drafted Tywin, and also earlier when I drafted Vifam when he was not exactly the most obv!Town in SD and could have been lynched there on D2.

More: In what world does Scum!Me oppose BOTH you and Titus on the Masons? I never supported their lynch and didn't even consider breaking them apart (drafting one over here), leaving them to -at least- do their thing once more and it could have very well been on a scumster this time just as much as it could have been on Town again. God I must be an AWFUL scum player if you thought Scum!Me would commit as many mistakes in just 2 days of play!!!

Did you see Titus practically begging us to draft Grey on D1? Instead I stated I wasn't sure about him and didn't pick him at all. Did you see that massive didn't even pick Titus as undraftable on either nights? I still didn't draft HER when it could have been an ACE move for scum in this this thread.

Finally, I was happy that FOR ONCE you didn't tunnel me from the word go in a game we play together in. So much for that. YOU HAVE NEVER PLAYED WITH SCUM ME BEFORE, and yet YOU SCUM READ ME AND ACTUALLY TUNNEL ME IN EVERY SINGLE GAME WE PLAY TOGETHER, and it's becoming SILLY AND BORING.

I'll post more when I've cooled down a bit. Until then, enjoy doing what you do best: Theorizing nonsense and then tinfoiling it with BS and wrapping it in manure. I'm out of here.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

GODDAMN IT! Even if I was scum who DIDN'T KNOW who scum was on the other thread, why would I not follow Titus lead anyway?? I mean, if I knew she was scum I should have acted on her directions. If I didn't know, then I should have been afraid of her finding me out. Either way I would have had to bring in GREY on N1, not Vifam.

And the Tywin NK??? Tywin actually STRONGLY Town read my slot. He even called for a protective to be on me on N1. Why would I want him dead? He would have helped me out for at least today, and with your out-of-boundaries moonlogic of there being at least 3 scumsters in this brand still it was probably all we needed to progress into a LyLo anyway.

God, I can't even begin to see how that brain of yours works. First you say that if we were alive in LyLo we should be lynched, and then you invent a theory that is so ridiculous it hurts that there could be 4 scumsters alive in here so it COULD be LyLo and you vote me. You are overlooking the fact that if there were 4 scumsters at the start of the game on each side then Vifam is CONFIRMED SCUM rather than confirmed Town.

Math, I no longer believe you to be as close to conf!Town as could be. As a matter of fact I now have to degrade my read on you to null and reconsider all your moves from a scum perspective. I was giving you quite a break because of a previous incident or two in which you played as bad and had as smelly theories and you flipped Town, but I can no longer ignore the probability of this being a good scum game of yours in which you are simply copying your shitty Town play to deter me from scum reading you.

More later.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Actually, it just hit me: On every single game Math also tunnels her sister like hell. Why -on Earth- did Math TR Titus in THIS game and go after the Masons instead? And then they fault ME for TR Titus when they also did?? At least I wasn't the one calling for the lynch of a Mason, which actually did happen and lead to the scum win in SD.

In fact, Math agreed to us drafting Tywin, fully knowing it was possible that he could get NK'd. I even explained how it works for them when they mentioned something about them being drafted to SD and getting NK'd.

Now, why would any sane GM draft Math over Nero?? I want every single player here to think about that one. If you can't figure a single reason that could be the case, then it makes sense Math was promoting themselves as a TR by suggesting they could be NK'd.

Math also suggested they should not be made undraftable in the off chance massive would make the same mistake twice and -if Math is Scum- it guarantees scum would win in SD even if the Masons did it again and vigged someone and it was SCUM this time, because all scum needed was to NK a Mason overnight.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense that Math is actually scum and has been playing us like puppets, and looking at their predecessor I don't see much that could negate such a case.

I'm contemplating on switching my vote from LUV to Math at this point, but in either case we are NOT lynching McMenno today, and here's to make sure that is the case:

Eric Bicshoff climbs up the ring and is walking into the center. The microphone ascends from the top and he holds it for a while, silently waiting for the crowd to stop making noise. He clears his throat and:

"Ladies and gentlemen: Tonight! Here on Sunday Extreme Rules Night in RAW - we will feature one of the best matches you will ever see, pitting two of the most bizarre wrestlers of our brand...

On the corner to my left; The Mathematician, The Moonlogic Master of All Time, The One and Only, please welcome.. Maaaaaath Blaaaaaaade!


Their opponent on my right is the EVER-EVASSIVE-LYNCH, The Apathetic, The Careless, and The Most Scummy.. L'il OOOOZEEEE VERRRRRRRT!


Now as you all can imagine, this is should be an interesting game under the "catch as catch can" rules.. heh heh

So, let's all enjoy this game where there can only be ONER winner.. one person walking out on their feet, with the other leaving on their back on a stretcher, so LET'S RUMBLE!!!

N.B. As of now, all votes are reset. Furthermore; no other wrestlers may interfere with their finishers. failing to comply results of you becoming voteless tomorrow.

PLACE YOUR BETS (i.e. get your votes on). Thank you.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Now, both of you needs to provide a fully detailed case on why they are Town and how come they made the scummy moves they did under the wrong impression they were in Town'd best interest.

Explain yourself or get the hell out of my brand! Mr McMahon demands some cutting on the funds here, and the crowd are demanding some vicious and mean fighting....

GO!

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Explanation to the rest:

I'm positive there's AT LEAST one Scumster in these two, but it's possible they both are. Once it became apparent LUV could be lynched, Math decided to flip their TR on us (being the strongest pushers of LUV) in an attempt to save their scum p.

I do acknowledge it "could" still be Town!math "doing what they do best", but I very much doubt it being the case.

Anyway, the decision is yours. Flip the scummiest of all a give Math the benefit of doubt, OR flip Math and if/when they flip RED then LUV is finally CONFIRMED SCUM.

My problem is: In the off chance Math flips Town, we would probably be throwing the game with LUV given a pass to endgame. I would still rather see his head rolling and him walking out the door in shame. (Besides, with his in-game character, who doen't want to see "her stripped off.." er.. her title!!

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Almost, was that like a legit action? Like can we only vote math or lil now?

Yes it was. This is the "Cage Match" both myself and massive have been referring to repeatedly. We are both Gladiators (you may want to check massive's role card in Smackdown for reference of the exact wording we received in our role PM).

P.S. If you do check on massive's role PM, please ignore Protection and Footwork. Our role is different on those two.

Which reminds me: Whoever said it was ridiculous for the GM to have another ability besides drafting (I think that was LUV).. you may want to eat your words now. CHECK THE FLIPPED GM ROLE PM.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

AC asked me if I could work with Titus in thread. He now uses that against me.

And now you're clinging on straws. Here's a reminder of how it went: First let's see WHEN WHEN I asked you to "work with your sister". Here it is:

Oh, also.. it'd be Titus or Tywin (someone who has a "tie" at the start of their username :lol) that we're drafting today. Can you like, not fight too much with your sister though? I mean, THAT is my one worry there, as I'm Town reading BOTH of you.

And it was in response to your earlier suggestion in THIS post:

Hint draft

Grey

.

Do not leave me undraftable

preferably NeroCain is undraftable.

Hope other team drafts me

.

That is my suggestion.

Now, you suggested drafting SCUM!Grey. Was it I who made you do it?

You wanted Nero to stay here (not paying attention to the mechanics is NAI) and wanted to be drafted to the other thread yourself. WHY? I mean, holding on to Nero -if ever was possible- would have been my move, granted, but it could have also come from a scum mind-set since you saw scum are getting closer to a win in SD and wanted to join them in their victory, so didn't want a strong Town player going there and -instead- suggested yourself to be there giving Scum the majority in SD already.

I would much rather Titus and myself be on the same side.

Here is an assertion you wanted to be with Titus on THE SAME THREAD.

If I am not drafted would prefer Titus over there.

Another EXPLICIT expression of wanting Titus over here if you're not going to her over there.

And now, let's have a little laugh with this:

A50 and Nero gotta be of the same alignment to me because of a post I think would be dumb to cite. Not seeing where Nero and AChara scumreads are coming from.

And with Nero flipping Town, suddenly Math does see where a scum read on me is coming from. Not just that, but they are using me doing exactly what I said I would do and them agreeing to it to scum read me now.

In fact to save you all a wall post, just ISO Math and ctrl+F4 for the word Nero. Go see how Math said Nero was Town BECAUSE THEY KNEW NERO'S SCUM PLAY, then went back to proposing Nero might be scum with me, then switched to suggesting we can't be scum, then said I might be scum with Town!Nero, then... oh, go see for yourselves. Flipping reads for no apparent reason, going form CERTAINTY to "not really confident".

The same applies to their read on Titus. They Town read her, bur kept the door semi-open in case Titus flipped to go back and say "I told you so".

And, Math: what happened to the setup not possibly having 3-4 Town killing roles? I mean, that's what you kept pushing against the Masons. Is it ok now to have 3-4 Town roles or should we be lynching based on an implicit scum claim?

Shall I go on? I could bring up more inconsistencies that are now apparent AFTER WE KNEW WHO SCUM WERE IN THE OTHER THREAD, and YES, OF COURSE I will change my read on you when you start making up reasons to sell me as scum, especially when those reasons were exactly what you had agreed on prior to the thread getting locked. You held your shot precisely to have as declare our action and we got the seal of approval for it.

So, you suggested Grey for a draft, and LUV suggested Zef, both of whom flipped Scum. I opted to draft Tywin when Titus was also available. So, tell me again, how come I refused to draft THREE players who all turned out to be scum and went for the one town-aligned player instead? My other proposition was to draft a Mason which I myself openly stated I was against bc it would break their ability.

Also, Titus was on Maria's case since the game started, long before the Masons were outed, yet I was defending Maria in particular (I had no read on Pepto in early game), so did I also do that "for show"?

My latest lynch pool on SD just before they quick lynched Pepto had 3 names, 2 of which were actually SCUM, and the 3rd was a Townie YOU yourself thought might be scum.

So, we both agreed Titus looked Town (and we both were wrong), and we both suspected DS (and apparently we were wrong on that one two), but the difference is you trusted Grey and I didn't, you scum read the Masons and I didn't (neither before nor after their claim).

Now, if there's someone who did something "for the show" it would certainly be the one who used a vig shot someone who was getting lynched anyway. It turns out that were were not even close to be in LyLo, so the vig shot was used to earn you a TR if you ARE scum, and so is the suggestion that you could be NK'd.

And more shitty play (this time IF you are Town) is to suggest we lynch you then when you flip Town I get lynched. Assuming you are Town; you'd be promoting 2 mislynches is a raw, so I can't see it coming fro a Town mindset, and not from the ever-so-suspicious Mathblade. I think it is a desperate move to deter me from lynching you... i.e. to scare me away. The problem is when I'm Town I do not "always" aim to survive till late game. I only do that when I see that I might have something to offer in late game. I've already made my move now, so your threats mean absolutely nothing to me.

Now, for the very last time: ADDRESS THE ACCUSATIONS. EXPLAIN your actions. Do not try to deflect by clinging into straws and making arguments that are easily nullified and using moonlogic that won't hold any water. It's time to shine or go down for good. Your choice.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

So can abilities still be used on math/lil? Or none at all?

I don't know about "abilities" as a general term. All I know is you cannot use your submission on them or you will be voteless on D4.

If you have other abilities though, it would be safer to PM the mod to know if that specific ability would work. My PM is worded EXACTLY like massive's for the first two parts (the Gladiator and the drafting).

~A50

[Almost Chara]

So do we just vote who we want to die

Yes, but -of course- you may ask them questions yourself if you're not sure whom to vote.

For me, Math is doing a great job convincing me of voting them over LUV so far. LUV has taken the "duck move" for his defensive tactic, while Math is throwing up all over the place. 7-8 scum my "toot-toot", and that's for starters. Now 7-8 scums WITH a scum GM is even more ridiculous, but to top it with "who also knew who scum was and were acting on it" is not even moonligic. It is another planet in another galaxy kind of logic.

Yet again, that is probably the ONLY REASON why I have bdoubts still about their alignment. Scum!Math is usually much more logical than that, while Town!Math is the World Champion of moonlogic.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

The 3-4 scums alive I suspect is a move to discredit you. Instead of you currently being conf!Town, the 3-4 scum theory would make you more likely scum, so they can push you next if you're not the NK.

Man, I should just stop trying to figure out how Math (as either alignment) thinks and plays. It'd take both Freud & Einstein combined to eve come close, and there's no guarantee they'd succeed either. This is a really bad scum move, yet it's even shittier a town move, so I really don't know what to make of it!!

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Six to Seven scum in a 26 player game (13 each side) makes sense.

Geez! What happened to the 3-4 scum still in THIS BRAND theory? And if you did believe there's a 5% chance there are 4 scums in here then HOW THE HELL is a NO LYNCH a better course of action? Scum will just kill someone at night and have their win in that case.

Also, why is Uzi suddenly has "odds of being scum slim to none."??

Last, but NOT least: WHERE IS YOUR EXPLANATION ABOUT YOUR OWN ACTIONS??

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Is anybody else as frustrated as I am? 2 lynch candidates are not doing anything to explain how their play could've come from a town perspective. 2 others are merely prod dodging, and yet 2 others who are still reading SD (and one is even "speculating" what would happen in a GAME THAT HAS ENDED ALREADY.)

They can't be ALL scum (or we would have lost already), but this happens to be the WORST TOWN I have ever played with. Remember the 2 mislynches?? One was "afraid to talk" and one "wouldn't work with anyone on any level" either. This is pathetic. I wish I could undo the gladiator thing and have myself lynched instead just to be able to watch the game from the dead thread and call everybody names over their shitty play.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Pedit: can you chill already? You don't seem to be mad at them since you have so many townreads... Care to update on that?

Just because they're not playing doesn't mean they're scum. If they were, then we have at least 5 scumsters already, and the game is over! this means some of them are Town FOR CERTAIN. Which ones? I don't "know". All I have for now is doubts I might have been blinded by my fury over Math's moonlogic and "may" have gladiated 2 Town players. Yet again, I may have gladiated 2 Scums or 1 T vs 1 S. I mean, the way everybody plays CAN be interpreted either way.

If Math is Town and genuinely suspects me then I can understand their read flip on LUV. If they're Scum though then it still makes sense to advocates NL if LUV IS their scum p. If Math is Scum but LUV is Town then Math could still promote a NL for fear they might end up being the lynchee, AND to earn Town cred if we lynch LUV. Now tell me which of them 3 possibilities has more merit in your eyes. Which option has a higher probability of being True? Math is Scum WITH LUV? Math is Scum but LUV is Town? or Math is Town and thus has a TR on LUV now?? Note that I have ONLY considered Math as the "independent variable" here; because they're the one still talking. LUV has stopped playing even before the gladiator thing. Is he apathetic Town or caught scum?? You decide!

As for the rest, what was pep doing "prophecizing" a NK on an already ended game? Is that Town totally not paying attention or is it Scum "pretending to be" Town totally not paying attention? The problem is he DID see that the Mason flipped already, so I find it hard to swallow that he saw that and didn't realize the SD thread ended in a scum victory.

Ms Columbo is only skating by prod-dodging. I can't fins any "content" from her regarding the game. Is it apathetic Town or lurking scum? McMenno is also doing almost the same, and the only thing keeping me from outright following Vifam's read on him is that I had a TR on him early into the game and so did Nero.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

Six to Seven scum in a 26 player game (13 each side) makes sense.

Geez! What happened to the 3-4 scum still in THIS BRAND theory? And if you did believe there's a 5% chance there are 4 scums in here then HOW THE HELL is a NO LYNCH a better course of action? Scum will just kill someone at night and have their win in that case.

Also, why is Uzi suddenly has "odds of being scum slim to none."??

Last, but NOT least: WHERE IS YOUR EXPLANATION ABOUT YOUR OWN ACTIONS??

~A50

My actions are explained. I vigged a person I genuinely thought scum.

About the number of scum, I still think it applies.
The odds of Uzi being scum are because you gladiatored myself and Uzi rather than letting me hunt and see if my theory was right. Instead because I suspected you you put us together. If the choices are Town or no one no one is the better option.

You didn't address ANY of my questions in 1162. Let me try again:

1- How is it my fault to TR Titus when you yourself have TR her, and even stated repeatedly that you wanted to be in the same brand with her?
2- Why did you want GREY drafted over here?
3- How come you wanted a Mason lynched?
4- Why did you suggest I was of the same alignment of Nero then change your mind about it when Nero flipped Town?

P.S. And Nero flipped because the game ended in SD, so it was nothing of my "Scum" doing! *Smirk*

~A50

[Almost Chara]

@Everyone NOT named Mathblade:

See? This is probably Town!Math alright. STUPID AND WON'T READ A GODDAMN WORD. They get ideas stuck up theirs and won't change then no matter what!

How many times did I explain the MECHANICAL thing was Nero's neighourizing ability?? Yet, Math somehow goes blind or totally illiterate when that passes under their vision and still believe -up to the post just above this one- that I crumbed a PR!!

@Math:

So you do acknowledge you Town read Titus. However, Titus was also Town in many other games in which the 3 of us played in together, and sometimes was even MOD-CONFIRMED Town and you still couldn't "work with her", so it wasn't about "trust" anymore. It was about if you were willing FOR ONCE to get your head our of the gutter, and I have received the answer to nthat one already. Thank you very much.

You also acknowledge you were wrong about the mechanics, the Masons, as well as Grey in addition to Titus, but you still pretend to be the grand genius and are theorizing nonsense still (like there being an additional scumster here and/or that the GM is scum).

FYI, the "difference" between the two brands' starting line up SO FAR was that the Masons had TWO vigs and you (if Town) claim to have only one. They also had a Doctor while we had a neighbourizer, so i terms of "balance" the flipped TOWN in SD were much stronger than the Town in this thread. And now you're proposing that we started with more scum here and/or that Scum have the power to gladiate, not to mention draft players from the other thread. I won't even get to how I used my abilities so far, because I know you're dismissing everything, but I'm talking from a mere mechanical/balance perspective. Do you not see ANYTHING wrong with your theories?

~A50

[Almost Chara]

VOTE: LUV

I think we have given LUV enough time to show up and make a case for himself if he ever intended to do so. He hasn't posted in 45 hours now and is due a prod in 3 hours or less.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I know that you didn't suspect me until I suspected you and this was a big OMGUS.

You do realize that you're responding to Pep, not me. Right? In other words, this is a repeat of your accusation of OMGUS directed at BOTH myself and Pep. Put another way, you want to go FoSing people and demand that they don't suspect you for it because then they will be OMGUSing. However, I urge you to go look at your own previous games and see how YOU respond to being FoS'd. I mean, this has nothing to do with your alignment here. It has to do with your mentality, where you assume everything you say or do is correct and everything anyone else says or does is coming from a scum perspective. YOU . NEED . TO . TAKE . A . PAUSE . AND . REVISE . YOUR . PLAY . AS . EITHER . ALIGNMENT. (There! I said it in the open this time and during the game this time).

~A50

[Almost Chara]

I don't make posts to players. I make posts to the thread.

My scumwin rate disagrees with you.
This is my town play after incorporating feedback.

I am limiting my OMGUS to being suspected in town games like this one and looking at why.
Your sudden shift has no basis.
Your gladiator of a townread with LUV makes no sense. Sure you posted a lot of words but at the end of the day you went from unlynchable to scum.

This is not Town A50.

Somebody please help me out here, as this has gone far beyond anything to do with this game or even the Mafia game in general. This is a communication problem. I'm not even sure if the problem is on my end or Math's, so could someone help me find what the relation between their scum win rate and what I said??

P.S. My post was the one directly ahead of the quoted response.

~A50

[Almost Chara]

dunno if AtE, caught scum, or soon-to-be-blacklisted town
really hoping you're scum here, and if so, thank you
you should at least try and entertain us a bit so we can guess who your teammate is

My sentiment exactly, except I'm taking it one step further and black listing him regardless of his alignment. People who do not wish to play should NOT sign up to games. If you are a pathetic PERSON don't take it out on us and do a GRINCH to steal away our fun playing this game.

Now back to the game: Someone please finish this one off. If -by any chance- LUV flips green then I will hand over the Town leadership to Vifam and sit aside sheeping him for the rest of the game.

~A50