Newbie 1764: Wind Game Over

[Srceenplay]

I'm ok with you releasing mafia chat whenever. Not much to see.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh meant to say don't vote in LyLo if town like that. Gamma and I are expected to vote each other though since our claims do the work together. What I said about catching the second scum before voting is good play though, would have done the same thing if I was really the cop.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh also Charloux PR told very early, he was already the NK before Alisae said anything, but Alisae still shouldn't say that, just gives scum fuel to push your lynch

[Charloux]

Oh also Charloux PR told very early, he was already the NK before Alisae said anything, but Alisae still shouldn't say that, just gives scum fuel to push your lynch

How did you know i was a protective PR and not bulletproof? I knew i slipped(well i was forced to (>_<) ) so i thought why not use reverse psychology and slip a bit more.

[nydushermain]

Oh also Charloux PR told very early, he was already the NK before Alisae said anything, but Alisae still shouldn't say that, just gives scum fuel to push your lynch

How did you know i was a protective PR and not bulletproof? I knew i slipped(well i was forced to (>_<) ) so i thought why not use reverse psychology and slip a bit more.

I thought you slipped as well so when alisae said it, I was like... "yeah..."

Anyways, even if you are bulletproof, it doesn't really change how much they need to do to get to lylo/mylo. 1 save after a mislynch does nothing.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't know you were protective but shooting the vest is fine, we knew the setup didn't line up with roleblocker and iirc I was in charge of the first NK because DBW was gone. Anyways I'm good with mafia or being released as it is

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like if you're the BP and we shoot the vest it's not so bad because you're no longer BP, you're not confirmed yet, and there are more targets for mislynched on d2. Puts us in MyLo instead of lylo d3 if scum don't get hit which gives scum good odds since there are more targets for mislynches.

[Charloux]

You are saying that having a protective PR is bad for town unless he can prevent a kill 2 times in a single game. Honestly, i don't remember witnessing two saves in a single game. Why even bother using the night action as a doctor then?

[nydushermain]

You are saying that having a protective PR is bad for town unless he can prevent a kill 2 times in a single game. Honestly, i don't remember witnessing two saves in a single game. Why even bother using the night action as a doctor then?

They don't know which PR you are. You could've been investigative.

[mhsmith0]

You are saying that having a protective PR is bad for town unless he can prevent a kill 2 times in a single game. Honestly, i don't remember witnessing two saves in a single game. Why even bother using the night action as a doctor then?

Because you have decent odds of:

1) Saving the cop or tracker
2) Getting tracked to a save while a different kill is made (hard-clearing you)
3) Getting tracked to a save that blocks a kill (which locks you in as goon or doc, and a clever tracker can play around that, most notably by hard-clearing who your target was)
4) In a doc-tracker setup, it's effectively "follow the cop" with no roleblocker once one goon dies, which makes it VERY hard for scum to win (this was what happened in newbie 1754 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69014 where a goon bussed and got a lot of town credit for it, but was eventually mechanically outed and surrendered

[mhsmith0]

mafia topic unlocked

[Charloux]

I have to change my gameplay at a fundamental level, but it's really hard once you start doing things unconsciously. I don't even know why people's gut tells them i am scum and i think that should be the first step. My first game was fun because i had no idea what i was doing. Now it's close to torture...

[nydushermain]

I don't know if my opinion helps at all charloux but part of my scumread on you was that it felt like you were feigning game solving. Kind of like you were just posting for the sake of posting but you didn't really try to inquisitively determine someone's alignment. You were reacting to things at a very shallow level. Have no idea what other peoples' read on you were but maybe it helps to know why I SR you?

I thought you could've been a PR when you called yourself pathetic.

[Srceenplay]

Don't try to be or do anything. Just play as town trying to find scum. Don't try to mislead or be vague. Just try to find town. If you are mafia don't even read who your partner is D1. Just be an honest questioning town folk trying to find scum.

[Regfan]

Congrats scum team, you guys did well considering both of you had to replace in, you both played a very solid game up until you had to CC Gammas claim. Generally when making a fake cop claim you want it to match well with your reads/actions (Which it didn't really with the Pep check / actions around the Pep wagon) on prior days but pocketing Pep was enough to get you the win here.

I think town overall made far too many mistakes and there was too little cohesion to win this game, had town got together and lynched the DWB slot D1 they very likely would have won this but after that didn't occur I didn't rate them much of a chance for a comeback. I've let Alisae & Accountant know what I think they need to amend in their play for future games but for others reading along you should absolutely never selfvote as town, not to get your lynched, not for reactions, for nothing; self voting is playing against your win condition and in a different game the act of doing so may get you lynched by itself.

I think Ramicius takes the town MVP here, he had a few misreads throughout the game and his reasoning behind some of his reads were iffy but he was certainly the closest to actually suspecting the scum team.

Pep, in LYLO you should never throw down your vote like you did initially, backing yourself to be able to unvote before scum blitz is never the right move; there's also the fact that SSBM voting his CC wouldn't have been a scum claim if you caught him doing such meaning there's no information you'll gain from your move. You're better of taking your time and trying to analyse the situation. Gamma didn't help in that his inactivity in that LYLO despite being the only townie that knew who a mafia was certainly didn't help but looking at how the claims panned out tow should have got the F5 right before probably losing in F3.

Screen, I thought your fencesitting in the F5 was fine but there needed to be more "gamesolving" faked then, in a better town I think if a correct lynch went through there that might have hurt you in a F3 situation. Prior to the F5 I think there was a little too much empty questioning / commenting in your ISO that fits more with scum trying to keep a presence in the thread without aiding much so in the future a few more real content posts would probably be needed there.

[Srceenplay]

Ty

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Huh. I actually thought pep was the only living town I could fake an innocent on and get away with it after reading my own ISO, but I guess the fact I refused to hammer them when they were L-1 on D2 might have convinced nyd to vote pep tomorrow (in F3?) What does the F stand for? I understand it means 5 way lylo or 3 way lylo just don't follow the F terminology

[mhsmith0]

F = final

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow...I basically lost the game by myself ...lol

YOU ARE A MORON!
A COP CLAIMING AN INNO ON YOU DOES NOT MAKE THE COP REAL. IF HE CLAIMED MAFIA ON YOU YOU WOULD HAVE VOTED HIM. HIS GOAL WAS TO SURVIVE, CLAIMING A TOWN RESULT ON HIS TOWNBEARD IS HOW HE DOES IT.

[Regfan]

Huh. I actually thought pep was the only living town I could fake an innocent on and get away with it after reading my own ISO, but I guess the fact I refused to hammer them when they were L-1 on D2 might have convinced nyd to vote pep tomorrow (in F3?) What does the F stand for? I understand it means 5 way lylo or 3 way lylo just don't follow the F terminology

F is indeed final. I understand that you were boxed in regards to what you can claim there given the situation and the one you made here worked in that you just pocketed Pep for the one town misvoting that you needed. But in a better town I think people would have realised your claim didn't mesh your play in that your reads at end of D1 don't particularly translate you to investigating Pep over other players and that if you had a town result on Pep there'd have been a real noticeable town read/defence from you on him when people were pushing him that what actually transpired. Like I said though, Gammas result put you in a bad position, given the experience of the town alive you handled it well but had it been different wouldn't have worked.

[Srceenplay]

Any criticism for anyone else Gamma?

[mhsmith0]

Wow...I basically lost the game by myself ...lol

YOU ARE A MORON!
A COP CLAIMING AN INNO ON YOU DOES NOT MAKE THE COP REAL. IF HE CLAIMED MAFIA ON YOU YOU WOULD HAVE VOTED HIM. HIS GOAL WAS TO SURVIVE, CLAIMING A TOWN RESULT ON HIS TOWNBEARD IS HOW HE DOES IT.

He's new, he made a mistake. Shit happens. Plenty of others would have made that mistake here too.

[Srceenplay]

You also have to see He was on the defensive already. When someone came in with a life line saying he's town he grabbed hold. That is expected right?

[mhsmith0]

Yeah that's also part of it. A downside of hard-calling a specific scumteam is that it kinda burns your bridges w suspect b if you're wrong about him.

[Pepchoninga]

Congrats scum team, you guys did well considering both of you had to replace in, you both played a very solid game up until you had to CC Gammas claim. Generally when making a fake cop claim you want it to match well with your reads/actions (Which it didn't really with the Pep check / actions around the Pep wagon) on prior days but pocketing Pep was enough to get you the win here.

I think town overall made far too many mistakes and there was too little cohesion to win this game, had town got together and lynched the DWB slot D1 they very likely would have won this but after that didn't occur I didn't rate them much of a chance for a comeback. I've let Alisae & Accountant know what I think they need to amend in their play for future games but for others reading along you should absolutely never selfvote as town, not to get your lynched, not for reactions, for nothing; self voting is playing against your win condition and in a different game the act of doing so may get you lynched by itself.

I think Ramicius takes the town MVP here, he had a few misreads throughout the game and his reasoning behind some of his reads were iffy but he was certainly the closest to actually suspecting the scum team.

Pep, in LYLO you should never throw down your vote like you did initially, backing yourself to be able to unvote before scum blitz is never the right move; there's also the fact that SSBM voting his CC wouldn't have been a scum claim if you caught him doing such meaning there's no information you'll gain from your move. You're better of taking your time and trying to analyse the situation. Gamma didn't help in that his inactivity in that LYLO despite being the only townie that knew who a mafia was certainly didn't help but looking at how the claims panned out tow should have got the F5 right before probably losing in F3.

Screen, I thought your fencesitting in the F5 was fine but there needed to be more "gamesolving" faked then, in a better town I think if a correct lynch went through there that might have hurt you in a F3 situation. Prior to the F5 I think there was a little too much empty questioning / commenting in your ISO that fits more with scum trying to keep a presence in the thread without aiding much so in the future a few more real content posts would probably be needed there.

Thanks a lot I will take this into account.