Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

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The beast has arrived.

I'm already on page nine, will be continuing my catch-up.

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mattblackguy - Town
GAYreenHamster - Town
Shade - Town
rakkar - Mafia
schadd_- Town
Raskolnikov (SE) - Town
ThinkBig (SE) - Mafia
gigabyteTroubadour (SE) - Town
Creature (IC) - Town

So did we win?

That seems to be the popular consensus.

Why are your reads the popular consensus?

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By the way, my previous post was 100% serious. I really do believe Rakkar, and ThinkBig are the mafia. Rakkar hasn't contributed anything to the game. He hasn't posted any opinions on anything that has gone on in this game so far, and hasn't posted any of his thoughts about the other players (who he thinks is town, who he thinks is scum etc.) I will not remove my vote from Rakkar unless he actually contributes something.

That's nice and all, but what has everyone else besides TB done to convince you they're town?

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1. mattblackguy
2. GAYreenHamster
3. Shade
4. rakkar
5. schadd_
6. Raskolnikov (SE)
7. ThinkBig (SE)
8. gigabyteTroubadour (SE)
9. Creature (IC)

Wat

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Why are your reads the popular consensus?

Not the popular consensus anymore. Ever since Cass has come in the town seems a little more split. Before we were basically circle jerking, reading each other as town, and reading the lurkers as scum. I'm glad we moved away from that, and think we're in a better state now.

That's a deflection, not an answer. When you posted those reads, they were the popular consensus.

Why?

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That's nice and all, but what has everyone else besides TB done to convince you they're town?

It was more so since I thought rakkar, and thinkbig was scum that everyone else had to be town (because of the rolelist). My thinking was pretty naive and noobess now looking back at it in hindsight. Honestly this is my first game, and I'm still trying to figure things out.

Fair enough.

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If I saw what I thought I saw IRT Creature, that was really, really stupid.

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Since Rakkar is most likely getting replaced later today I'll just drop my vote on him now, and see what the new person says.

Ew.

Not a fan.

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Lastly it does seem to me that Gayreen is just following whatever you(Giga) say in an attempt to gain a town read from you.

Hypocrite, thy name is matt.

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wrapping it up relatively quicklike. i got strong scumdar pings on gbT, schadd_ and rask.

schadd_ and Rask, I might work with you on.

Gigs, nowai.

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This looks really reckless for scum, but what bothers me is that he took 13 mins to make post 240.

What's your opinion?

Seriously? How is that even a concern?

I'm not overly keen on his slot, but that's hella nitpicky.

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actually, excluding gbT id like a condensed prelim reads list from you creature, just for compare and contrast purposes. ill do the same:

TOWNIEST
creature
gayreen
tb
mbg
shade
schadd_
rask
SCUMMIEST

and if you could your preferred scumteam pairings.

Not seeing Gigs in this list?

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First impressions:

{Creature}
{Casserole, Gigs}
{schadd_}
{ThinkBig, Shade}
{matt, Rask}

Not yet ready to put down a vote, will probably do that tomorrow.

Prepare yourselves for the upcoming onslaught.

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VOTE: Shade

Probably should've joined this wagon when it originally happened.

VOTE: rakkar

this is most likely the scum.

Holding onto the tell for now but it's a good one, tried and true.

What happened to this vote?

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Gayreen
Shade
Thinkbig

{Thinkbig, Gayreen}
{Shade, Gayreen}
Thinkbig/shade prob not

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

In either of the scenarios you're considering, I'm the common denominator in the scumteam.

Why are you voting Shade instead of me?

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Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

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Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

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re: 570

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

Not quite convincing, potentially wrong on someone

That was the emphasis in that post. The point, the conclusion, of it. If on the other hand it all looked sunshine and daisies I might've just followed it on blind faith but is that what it looked like?
Though other townreads disagreeing with me there too was a part of it as well, perhaps you missed the context via just ISOing?

Will obviously you're potentially wrong on someone, but it's rather difficult to operate under the assumption you aren't right.

If your reads were genuine, I believe you would have voted me with the intention of finding my partner if I flipped red.

Putting me as a possible partner with two different players, them voting one of those other players instead of me in a later post reads fabricated as fuck.

VOTE: Rask

L-1

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UNVOTE: Rask

I don't want the day to end just yet. There's still plenty to talk about.

Caution tell.

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rask is THE SEVENTH CIRCLE now. mbg is scumlean, tb and shade are my prefered scumbuddies for rask. scum busses and tb flaked quick when the pressure ratcheted, and shades been distant but rask has been mostly ignoring shade until people started staring his way.

Did you see how fast mbg unvoted when I put Rask to L-1?

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Did you see how fast mbg unvoted when I put Rask to L-1?

We have 8 days left in the day, and I don't want to end it yet. With Rask at L-1 someone can just come and quickhammer him which I want to avoid for now.

And what do you think would happen in the event of a quick-hammer?

That's right, Sherlock, even bad things teach us something.

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#top

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Already stated.

Nobody has spoken up to confirm what Rask was saying about the gamestate in their defense, so I'm not giving it much credence.

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Are you 100% saying you're not going to reconsider trying to lynch me today?

If she said no, would you stop trying to find/push scum?

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Grey, can you go a bit more into your scumread on him?

I've given him another read.

He addressed my concerns about him fairly well, the only thing I really don't like about him right now is where he throws shade over my questioning of him when I was obviously in a hurry to get caught up with the rest of the game.

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VOTE: ThinkBig

I'm not lynching a PR claim d1. They will be sorted through natural events.

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i mean

if grey is who i think he is (if he is an alt i'm keeping him under wraps sorry)

i think it's totally within his scumrange to do that

I'm not an alt. -_-

[-Grey-]

that's what they all say ♡♡

Oh shush, Giggles.

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theres also the fact that he clammed up when he saw a (fake) l-1 before. i want him to talk, not curl up and die

That in itself is a scumtell.

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If you have any interest in me responding to your post about me, redo it with post tags because I'm not wading through this site without links on my phone.

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534: FIRST post worth commenting on??? commenting on MBG's list at 239, not saying a word about those weird ass claims and such prior? arguably this is NAI leaning town but im suspicious af about there being nothing to comment on from 135 to 160-ish just for example. #535 still leaning on MBG but it is valid and in order here.

Your primary objection in block of text seems to be that I didn't comment on content within the first nine pages, which I had already stated that I read before actually getting my role pm. Add to that the fact I believe the beginning of d1 is bullshit in general for all games.

538: contentless expression of confusion at one of rask's lists. #

HE LISTED HIMSELF AS LYNCHABLE YOU FUCKING CLOWN
--

I'm going to have to break my responses up because my phone is choking on the wall which is one reason I hate them.

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539 is vaguely towny. leans on mbg for more info. can someone tell me what they think about the info hes pressing for here? is there even a point to asking that in that post?

Reads that match the popular consensus are scummy. It's not rocket surgery why I'd pressure that.

You notice that "kumbaya" atmosphere is gone? That's called progress because it means people have to justify their reads instead of "ommm this person is town because sheep ommm"

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#544 is contentless expression of dislike toward SOMETHING to do with creature. what? who knows!

I totally disliked what Creature posted because it was stupid of him to post.

Unless you think I'm pushing him as scum for what I disliked (hint: I'm not, which you could tell if you were paying as much attention to my posts as you are claiming), I don't see why you would want me to expand on that.

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#547 is vaguely scummy imo -- expresses disgust with mbg pulling vote off player to be replaced who had prior contributed literally almost nothing. its giving the newcomer a fair chance to make their name lol, that is the correct motorcycle when lurkers replace out (obv diff players are a diff story)

Resetting a read on someone simply because they replace out is bad.

Clean slates are the worst possible thing to do.

There's a reason that if a player is being run up and then needs to be replaced, most of the time, the town lynches the slot.
They're not gonna bother with the shit a replacement will give, since the replacement won't do anything to change people's minds.

I absolutely agree with this.

Are you starting to feel stupid with your bullshit push yet?

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#548 is defensive of GAYreen.

I defended nothing, I pointed out hypocrisy and Matt admitted to it.

That's just blatant misrep.

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#552 seems to be a scumslip? town can easily see the paranoia that would lead to #431, no one else questioned it, even mbg seemed to take it in stride, treat it as fair.

This is garbage, because building reads around timestamps is stupid. You don't know wtf is going on in meatworld that affects posting times, and it's not like everybody has nothing to do but sit around and post.

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#554 seems to also imply scumminess -- scum skim, town deep-reads. on a skim my list there is bad. the shallowest of deep-reads reveals i imply that is to be expected. context in thread also does.

I was rushing to catch up with the thread and throwing out comments as I had them.

Feel free to metadive me to confirm, that's how I always catch up.

Hell, post a single game where I'm "deep reading" as either alignment and I'll vote myself.

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#568 reads as completely unaware of the thread. rakkar DID NOT POST. even just clicking the activity overview will tell you exactly what changed there lol. this is a clear scumslip from where im standing.

Holy shit, a guy that is trying to take in a couple dozen pages of information all at once missed something?

UNLEASH THE HOUNDS OF WAR!

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#570 i can practically hear "target locked." thats a bit of hindsight but jfc

See this is just bullshit shade throwing that falls apart when you actually follow the link you're referring to, and that's why I wanted those posts linked.

VOTE: Casserole

Rask thought I was likely scum with two different people. If was a genuine read, Why would he want to push either of those two over me when lynching me is objectively more likely to hit scum?

It didn't make sense, and this right here just shows that you're throwing shit against the wall and hoping people don't actually pay attention.

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#571 dismisses a valid line of reasoning. in fact, a line of reasoning used by mbg and accepted by grey at that point as well! see #541

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

Who's the one skimming now, Casserole? But it's town if you do it right?

More bullshit misrep.

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#571 dismisses a valid line of reasoning. in fact, a line of reasoning used by mbg and accepted by grey at that point as well! see #541

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

Who's the one skimming now, Casserole? But it's town if you do it right?

More bullshit misrep.

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#578 is CONVINCING REASONING. the speed at which it came out of fuckin nowhere was not. i recall feeling this way when i first saw it, but i was (and to a slightly reduced degree, am!) so convinced of rask flipping red that i just sat on it (see my feelings on mbg as poss. scumteam member in #604)

Good post. MUST BE SCUM!

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#582 casts shade but doesnt claim towntell or scumtell, just "tell". mbg's noob, implies NOOBtell to me. #582 feels light anti-town to me -- either greys ignored everything up to this point while reading through or hes scumteam, otherwise hed realize hes probably seeing mbg's repeatedly stated inexperience with mafia lol

Caution tell is a textbook scumtell, and the fact Matt is inexperienced MAKES IT MORE likely to be valid, NOT LESS, because he isn't likely to know about it and Scum are naturally cautious.

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#586 is further contentless shade casting on mbg. while i agree its indicative of something, i did not and do not agree its enough to even FoS mbg rn, we need to focus on our bigger scumbags. its also an ULTRA-easy read, which is why i was dismissing peoples concerns with gayreen changing mind on the tb l-1 -- thats a copout read, it stands out, grabs attention and means nothing. scum can use it to pretend they have real opinions

Not contentless at all. I was pointing out Matt being cautious scum.

Noobscum Matt and Casserole partner makes a lot of sense, too.

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#592 is stating the obvious in a dickish manner. arguably nai but im leaning scum with it combined with the rest.

Hi. I'm Grey. I'm an asshole that find scum by being an asshole. Ask Giggles.

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#609 feels like its pushing for an immediate lynch. its trying to corner rask into a "well thats scum claim" position. i even gave rask an out from that in 610 because W T F. i dont mind that sort of play but we have A FULL WEEK OF DAYTIME, you corner someone that way on the last day of day phase rofl you dont do that shit midway through, wtf??? scum af here

Wrong. Once you find scum, you lynch scum. Deadline is irrelevant. Putting off the Lynch simply because of the deadline only serves to give scum extra time to wiggle out of the noose.

Once again, this can be confirmed by a metadive. But you don't care about the truth, all you care about is who you can make look like scum.

#629 dismisses at least three separate concerns with mbg as "nah its all cool" including 582-592! wtf? NAI but mbg and -grey- are going to be opposite factions p sure

#637 why did it take this long for this? why? rask claimed a full HOUR prior. W T F. and why the hell put pressure on tb again? what is the point here? what more is going to come of this? i make this point several times around here, saying "no more than l-2" and gbT and -Grey- are BOTH dismissive of my point here, but gbT is trying to allay concerns while -Grey- (#644) is sayingthat everything points to TB=scum anyway so who gives a fuck. S C U M

someone convince me im reading GAYreen+-Grey- wrong pls? Creature? anyone? im p sure you guys cant.[/quote]

done[/quote]

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#629 dismisses at least three separate concerns with mbg as "nah its all cool" including 582-592! wtf? NAI but mbg and -grey- are going to be opposite factions p sure

Cast shade and then say NAI. Brilliant.

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#637 why did it take this long for this? why? rask claimed a full HOUR prior. W T F. and why the hell put pressure on tb again? what is the point here? what more is going to come of this? i make this point several times around here, saying "no more than l-2" and gbT and -Grey- are BOTH dismissive of my point here, but gbT is trying to allay concerns while -Grey- (#644) is sayingthat everything points to TB=scum anyway so who gives a fuck. S C U M

A whole hour?! Jiminy crickets!

If Rask had been lynched in that hour, we'd have had the d2 lynch mapped out, I wasn't at all worried about having my vote on him while I decided where I wanted my vote to go.

Painting my actions as scummy here is disingenuous as fuck.

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also re: 578 it ignores the possibility of scumhunting which is a valid reason to vote someone who isnt your top scumread (see e.g. my current vote)

Bullshit.

If he was scumhunting, he'd have wanted to lynch the most objectively scummier person which by his started theory was me since I might be scum with two different people whereas lynching either of those people wouldn't even clear me anyway.

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i dont really buy meta arguments USUALLY (outside of very hard, near infallible town/scumread meta like creature), so im going to say no, that doesnt matter here, it still feels like a scum mindset to me.

Proof that all you care about is who you can make look like scum.

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Why should I read what you want me to read when you straight up refused to read content that would contradict your bullshit push and show that it's playstyle indicative?

Fucking hypocrite.

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but getting a bit too frustrated with cass's arguments (she's done that with, like, everybody, bub)

What pissed me off was her blatant misrepping of my play on multiple occasions.

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^ that kind of shit is exactly what I'm talking about.

She is banging on that drum like it's her fucking swan song, but the inarguable fact of matter is that once I find scum, I want scum dead period and that giving scum time just gives them opportunity to escape.

Casserole is only concerned about superficial appearances.

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2: the second time you brought it up -- if its true, i would be willing to say that your meta and mine work so poorly with each other than one of us would naturally be a d1 lynch in any game we were in. to me, shutting down info is ALWAYS anti-town. shortening the day dramatically is ALWAYS anti-town. i would read that meta and say "so its a player that personally id want to policy lynch because nothing about where theyre coming from feels pro-town to me at all no matter what side theyre on"

This doesn't change the fact that you are calling things I do as town scummy when the fact of the matter is it's simply playstyle.

Disagreeing on theory doesn't make the other player scum. Misrepping the other person's play instead of actually wanting the truth, however...

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3: you never even linked to a representative game like gbT did on a couple occasions in this very game, which makes me think youd be hoping id dig into a couple games shallowly, get exhausted from info overload and accept it at face value. notthat that would help this, see 1 and 2.

I have two completed town games.

Two

You are full of shit.

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4: finally, those posts i want you to read arent meta. they are directly relevant to this discussion, in this game, in this very conversation in fact. that is a pretty considerable difference.

I have no incentive to work with someone that doesn't even try to see things from my perspective.

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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69704

No clicking on the Dead spoiler...

What's my alignment?

[-Grey-]

Also check deadlines vs actual lynch dates.

OH WOW, IT'S LIKE IT'S ACTUALLY MY PLAYSTYLE!

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^ fucking obvscum post lol

"I don't care how much you prove me wrong. I am going to double down and pray nobody else smells the bullshit pouring out of my mouth!"

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Grey whats your read on Ircher currently?

Idk, I'm occupied elsewhere.

ISOed Ircher, he seems pretty town.

Wow, I read super deep into Ircher before giving a read. Three whole minutes worth.

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Casserole, you're full of shit and anyone that actually reads the game I linked will see that.

[-Grey-]

when someone tried to pressure you, you waved it off super-casually.

*GROAN*

Thanks for the abstract, now give me the facts

Grey seems v scummy to me too - lots of bickering, controlling the tone of the town but not actually giving very much information or analysis. Very combative, but not in a way that actually leads to information for town. This might just be a playstyle thing though? I'd have to read his meta and I don't want to do that right now.

Look at this scumread.

LOOK AT IT!

Bickering - NAI
Controlling the tone of the town - vague accusation that doesn't actually say anything
Not giving much information or analysis - anti-town, not scummy
Combative - NAI

She admits her read on me may be playstyle but has zero intention to do the legwork to see whether I play this way and whether it's alignment indicative, but she's thrilled to string me up for it regardless.

I like HS, I like AA and I like Alisae. The latter two mostly because of the Asphodel wagon.

Why? What about that one wagon makes them town? How could they not do it as scum?

Fucking weak.

I can't fucking stand TF, but I don't think it's alignment indicative. I think he's just an asshole.

Blah blah blah. For bitching about someone not leading to information for town, you're saying a whole lot of nothing about 2F, hypocrite.

Since Gamma claimed Ascetic Enabler, any "no results" results should be insta-lynched because the ascetic(s) is/are scum hiding behind the role.

I'm happy returning to my previous vote.

VOTE: Naomi

I don't like this. There are tons of other roles that could lead to no-results. This could just give scum easy mislynches. This + your "scumslip" thing earlier really make it seem like you are out for excuses to push lynches.

At this point I think I am convinced enough to drop the Asphodel thing for the moment - though I'd like to revisit it later.

VOTE: Grey

Bullshit vote. She sees me as an easy target and abandons her Asphodel push while keeping her options open should she have to walk back her read on me later.

I don't believe the claim for a second. Even then, optimal play IMO is to lynch me, and let the town PRs do their work tonight.

Orrrrrr, instead of lynching town, we could lynch scum instead, how bout that?

I am not happy with the situation vis a vis grey and am not sure I buy the claim, but I'll UNVOTE: for now.

Probably going to go back to Asphodel wagon, but it's getting a bit too much traction too fast this time and I want to look at who is hopping back on it.

Why should town care about the speed of votes on a renewed wagon that was temporarily stalled in favor of another one? It doesn't make the wagon any worse simply because players are returning to it.

She was paranoid about how hopping over would look and wanted to appear townie.

On top of that, her ISO is just filled with shade casting and coasting.

VOTE: krylea

Super casual.

[-Grey-]

krylea was scum btw.

[-Grey-]

Keep on misrepping me, Casserole.

[-Grey-]

When someone puts a lot of effort into misrepping my play, that's what happens.

[-Grey-]

didnt get that far before i checked back in, my bad.

Wait, are you saying you skimmed???

I thought town deep read?!?!

What does that make you, Casserole???

[-Grey-]

That's twice now I've caught her missing information after accusing me of being scum for missing information.

[-Grey-]

And THAT is why I do what I do.

[-Grey-]

That's twice now I've caught her missing information after accusing me of being scum for missing information.

actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.

I illustrate your hypocrisy and you accuse ME of being the hypocrite?

That's rich.

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and the personal attacks

For the record, I don't believe I actually did this but I do apologize if you think I attacked you as a person because that was never my intent.

[-Grey-]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69704

This game lasted three weeks.

Town lynched four scum in five day phases.

GTFO with that "wanting to cut days short is anti-town" bullshit.

[-Grey-]

i did not intentionally misrepresent you. if i misrepresented you at all i dont want you to jump on me with both feet and just start beating tf out of me, i want you to point out specifics calmly.

- Accusing me of defending my predecessor
- "target locked" commentary about my 570
- accusing me of being Scum for skimming when you've done the same
- twisting my playstyle as being alignment indicative

[-Grey-]

That's just off the top of my head. I really don't want to go back into rehashing that wall.

[-Grey-]

UNVOTE: Rask

I caught shit from Casserole because it took me an hour to move my vote, but she has zero concerns about this.

Lol.

[-Grey-]

Eh my bad, misread the unvote and jumped.

[-Grey-]

Voting a PR on d1 -after- they've claimed IS sus, though.

[-Grey-]

Before Rask claimed tracker in this game he asked if there was anything to change Cass' mind or if she was just going to lynch him anyway. Cass responded saying she doesn't think Rask is capable on convincing her that he's not scum. And then immediately afterwards Rask claims tracker.

This makes sense if you consider that Rask might have been trying to decide whether he had to claim or if he could talk his way out of the lynch without claiming.

[-Grey-]

I didn't believe the game but after everyone has been active after the claim and no one CCed there was no reason to keep my vote there

Counterclaiming a PR with an active ability on d1 is stupid because it prevents the real PR from getting any results at all because they will just be nk'ed on n1.

Day two is the ideal time to counterclaim, because they have results to offer as well as lynching a fake claiming scum.

[-Grey-]

Rask was at L-2 at the time, and the pressure was shifting more to ThinkBig at L-1 so I think it was awkward for him to claim at that time when he wasn't about to get lynched at that moment.

Why would Scum box themselves into a corner with a fakeclaim if pressure was being released?

[-Grey-]

Why would scum try to force a CC if the threat of lynch was going away?

Your theory is not making sense.

[-Grey-]

- VoteCount 1.11 -
With 9 players still alive, it's 5 to lynch!

[L-5] mattblackguy -
[L-5] -Grey- -
[L-5] schadd -
[L-4] Shade - Raskolnikov
[L-2] Raskolnikov - Cassielle, Creature, mattblackguy
[L-3] ThinkBig - schadd_, gigabyteTroubadour,
[L-5] gigabyteTroubadour -
[L-5] Creature -
[L-5] Cassielle -

Not Voting - -Grey-, Shade, ThinkBig

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-18 20:00:00)

Can we please wagon this instead of me, thank you all for your cooperation.

VOTE: Thinkbig

Will sheep for hire

TB L-2

VOTE: Rask

L-1

Rask L-1

UNVOTE: Rask

Rask L-2

Okay fuck you.

I'm tracker.

Stop wasting your time idiots.

Rask claimed.

TB's wagon was not gaining the traction you were claiming, the only vote it got was a survival vote from Rask.

Rask was under plenty of pressure despite the VC being L-2 because your scumread didn't go away simply because you unvoted and she knew that.

[-Grey-]

the rage feels town but theres this real "GTFO MY BACK" feeling that idk, you STILL come across scum to me

Why would a town PR not have a "get off my back" attitude if they felt they were forced to claim on d1?

[-Grey-]

#571 dismisses a valid line of reasoning. in fact, a line of reasoning used by mbg and accepted by grey at that point as well! see #541

Cass replaced rakkar.

Yeah, right.

Enough said.

How do you treat replacements -grey- ?

I don't give them a clean slate, if that's what you're asking.

That said, I read Cass as town anyway.

I was agreeing with your post, if you couldn't tell.

Who's the one skimming now, Casserole? But it's town if you do it right?

More bullshit misrep.

Still missing my point, casserole. Does coloring it in help?

They
The only sin I committed was omitting the "Oh" from the front of "yeah right", which I remedied with my follow-up post and you completely missed because... YOU... WERE... SKIMMING

[-Grey-]

i dont consider this misrepresentative. this is clearly put out as subjective, from where im sitting. can we agree that i at least represented it as my personal read there?

No, at cannot.

You cannot sling shit about me then say "well that's just my personal opinion", and expect me to let it slide.

[-Grey-]

4: the playstyle thing im going to drop. to me its strong anti-town, but w/e,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69704

This game lasted three weeks.

Town lynched four scum in five day phases.

GTFO with that "wanting to cut days short is anti-town" bullshit.

[-Grey-]

schadd_, why does your ISO read like coasting scum?

[-Grey-]

and if its slinging shit to say that it looked to me (AGAIN with the above in mind, that i was looking at it from a scumread point of view to start) like you had found a weak player who was an easy lynch, then scumhunting around you is impossible and i /will/ replace out.

Don't take it personally. I don't get mislynched as town, and I'm not going to start now.

In that post, I WAS wanting Rask to feel some pressure because his vote made no sense from a game-sorting perspective. Coloring that as zeroing in on a victim is misrepresentative of my play.

[-Grey-]

Okay, that last paragraph made me laugh.

[-Grey-]

Cass, give this site a couple months and you'll be like

[-Grey-]

FYI, if this wasn't the newbie queue I'd have eaten you alive over all the AtE, but I'm trying to consider your newness and compensate for that.

[-Grey-]

again with the caveat of me not saying youre actually etc etc.

If you think I'm scum, make the case. But before you do, all I ask is that you ask clarifying questions to ensure you understand the motives behind my posts instead of project your own assumptions as fact.

[-Grey-]

p-edit: fair. i can work with that and the same goes for me.

I'm not Monty Hall.

This isn't Let's Make A Deal.

dayvig: cassielle

Spoiler:

Just kidding.

[-Grey-]

I didn't really see much of a case from you about schadd_, which makes sense considering they're not giving much content to form a read on.

They're throwing out reads and that's nice and all, but where are those reads coming from? schadd is very light on questioning but heavy on opinions, so I'm skeptical.

schadd looks to me like coasting/active-lurking scum.

[-Grey-]

Who the hell is Shade, btw?

[-Grey-]

p-edit 2: shade's one of the lurk slots like TB. his ISO is short, sweet, and just about unreadable

And as short as it is, it still has more questions than schaad's, lol.

[-Grey-]

which i just now realized is a valid reason behind your approach to me *connects face to desk*

¿por que?

[-Grey-]

which i just now realized is a valid reason behind your approach to me *connects face to desk*

¿por que?

Say what?*

[-Grey-]

p-edit: re: the approach thing, you could very well have been trying to irritate and frustrate me purposefully to get my guard down, unfiltered reactions, etc. i dont think its the case but its POSSIBLE and imo i should have thought of that

It's typically my approach outside of the newbie queue, so it's sort of turned into habit I guess.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: schadd_

Choo Choo!

[-Grey-]

{Creature}
{Casserole, Gigs, Rask}

{ThinkBig, Shade}
{schadd_ }

[-Grey-]

It's typically my approach outside of the newbie queue, so it's sort of turned into habit I guess.

How you played mafia elsewhere, and if yes then where/how much? You have less than 2 months on this site, but seems like you have more experience than that.

Most of my experience is F2F, which is why I *suck* at reading people.

I do enjoy gambiting, though.

[-Grey-]

{Creature}
{Casserole, Gigs, Rask}

{ThinkBig, Shade}
{schadd_ }

what about me?

I'm not sure, tbh.

[-Grey-]

i hate not having a vote out

I know exactly what you mean.

I hardly ever unvote because I feel a dormant vote is a wasted vote.

[-Grey-]

that exactly precisely thank you.

Do you get why I wasn't concerned about my vote being on Rask for an hour after he claimed?

I was active in the thread, there would have been hell to pay if anyone else voted him.

[-Grey-]

I think it makes sense if schadd flipped scum that I could be his scum buddy

How does this make sense from a town perspective??

[-Grey-]

How does this make sense from a town perspective??

What do you mean? Which person's perspective are you talking about?

Yours.

How can you, as town, think it's reasonable to consider you scum?

If you're confirmed town to yourself, why would you think it's okay for others to consider you Scum?

[-Grey-]

idk @-grey- would this be a policy lynch normally? i have no idea, im weirded out

I'm not a fan of policy lynches.

[-Grey-]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... edirect=no

To quality reading, I highly recommend it for you, Cass.

[-Grey-]

Top* quality

[-Grey-]

ive read it before but that was awhile back. i see i havent been doing it right to be sure ha

How far back could it have been? You've only been here four days!

[-Grey-]

if you share their wincon you should fit right in.

SCUMSLIP!

Spoiler:

and that's why most scumslips are worthless

[-Grey-]

Not sure 100% what you mean. Do you mean why do I care if others think I'm scum or something else? I care, because I want to understand their reasoning, and I can put myself in their shoes it'll help me understand their train of thought.

You're focusing on the wrong part of the game and that will get you manipulated by Scum.

As town, it is your job to find scum. Everything you do should be centered around finding and lynching scum.

If you are doing that, then town will recognize their own. It's not your job to appeal to town, that is scum's job.

[-Grey-]

Well, I suggest you find your groove because this kind of AtE won't keep you alive.

That goes against your wincon regardless of faction.

[-Grey-]

but I think she has to be confbiasing/tunnely town through sheer amount of being that heavily invested in what she does

This is fallacious, btw.

Effort is not indicative of alignment.

[-Grey-]

@Casserole, another misrep objectively unfair portrayal of my actions that bugs me is the way you accused me of throwing shade at Creature when I was saying he was town because of the stupidity I found and he has consistently been my highest rated townread.

How could you look at my play and honestly think I was throwing shade on him AND bait me into talking about why I was townreading him?

[-Grey-]

Well the efforts part of it too, I guess, if it was less you could maybe handwave it. But if there's that much and it all points to her being invested into the game and actually believing the (often faulty) things she says, I'd assume most people incapable of that acting.

If Cass was new to the game, I would concede your point, but Cass is playing like a veteran and has admitted to being experienced.

[-Grey-]

I'm not scumreading Casserole, is just that this game is feeling way too easy and I find it highly unlikely that we have the entire scumteam narrowed down to 3-4 players on d1.

That's a lot of townreads.

[-Grey-]

grey is definitely angry, which i think you get good at feigning if you play F2F, but who knows. pointing things out before reading all the way is kinda towny, but i would think he knows that. there's a lot of rhetorical/unanswerable questions which gives me a yucky impression (see 534, 609, 801, 838). it's kinda hard for me to divorce scum from mean and abrasive, so this is more difficult.

Those questions are neither rhetorical nor unanswerable. They are pointed. They put the recipient on the spot for a reason.

Scumreading somebody simply because they're not sunshine and rainbows is ignorant. Abrasive play gets more genuine responses than being Mr. Rogers.

[-Grey-]

@cassielle - 869 whenever you have a moment, please.

[-Grey-]

Sometimes it's not pro-town to be transparent on the reason behind a read.

Questioning someone that has an "out of the blue" concrete read that is intentionally being vague about the source of the read looks like scum more than town.

[-Grey-]

i dont have any idea what that post is about. at all.

You're not meant to.

That remark was meant more for Creature than anyone else.

[-Grey-]

Dueling L-1's.

Dammit Shade why did you have to ditch us?!

[-Grey-]

I like the wagon makeup of schadd better.

I'm staying put.

[-Grey-]

if you want to say that is misrepresentative, tell me how i could have drawn /any/ conclusions about that post /at all/ -- and i do mean /any/ conclusions, short of "you know how to type" or "you are proficient in the english language" -- and i will accept that i misrepresented you outright without further explanation from your side.

Just as a word of advice, if a rock solid townread appears out of thin air and stays there, it's best not to dwell too much on such comments.

Even now, we're dancing around anti-town territory discussing this much, but it's more of a learning thing than an optimal play thing.

[-Grey-]

grey is definitely angry, which i think you get good at feigning if you play F2F, but who knows. pointing things out before reading all the way is kinda towny, but i would think he knows that. there's a lot of rhetorical/unanswerable questions which gives me a yucky impression (see 534, 609, 801, 838). it's kinda hard for me to divorce scum from mean and abrasive, so this is more difficult.

Those questions are neither rhetorical nor unanswerable. They are pointed. They put the recipient on the spot for a reason.

mm. the one that stuck out to me was, perhaps intuitively, the one that you asked me. 801, "schadd_, why does your ISO read like coasting scum?" and obviously, i mean, i don't really see it, because i'm town. me being able to answer this pulls counter to the sentiment of 842 (though this may have been a rhetorical question, heh). so, it feels like you're just fishing for me to not be able to answer your question.

I'm fishing for you to justify your play, which you aren't even trying to do.

Attempting to redirect my question as a reason to scumread me isn't going to make me go away.

[-Grey-]

interesting that schadd_ handles your post

Not really.

[-Grey-]

p-edit: radiant is reading stronger and stronger scum before i even review the topic, just from 957 onward. not so much 957 itself (i dont scumread people for scumreading me, its poor play imo) but in conjunction with what happens after it and the completely incomprehensible creature scumread.

Eh. It sure looks to me like your newfound scumread of the Shade slot came from RC's push on you.

That's all that has changed since you made that post stating Shade had better content than schadd_.

I approve of this wagon.

VOTE: cassielle

[-Grey-]

L-1 btw

[-Grey-]

992 is mudding the waters like whoa. She's ditching her townreads now that she's coming under heat...

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Grey

Why did you feel so happy voting with your scumreads?

Why don't you remind us who the first person was to push Cass.

[-Grey-]

Why don't you remind me why you changed your mind.

ISO me punk, I'm not catering to your shit when I've been the one who has been pushing her with no fucking support until RC came in and tried to knock some sense into you people.

Cass spent all day d1 fishing for mislynches by painting people as scum and ran away with her tail between her legs when somebody bit back.

I felt sorry for her because we're in the newbie queue so I let up on her. Big whoop. It didn't make her play any less scummy.

[-Grey-]

p-edit: GAYreen was a weird case. my read is "probably town" but i examined that ISO front and back and theres weirdness that feels noob, but GAYreen wasnt a noob iirc

search.php?author_id=29124&sr=topics

What is he, then?

[-Grey-]

grey has contributed little to nothing of substance to the discussion at all aside from responding to some interrogation from rask.

You're right. I'm keeping my mouth shut to avoid distracting from the wagon on you.

Dividing town's attention is the best way to let scum off the hook.

[-Grey-]

@Raskolnikov Grey is an alt with someone who I have experience with and I don't want to go into any more detail on the subject.

False, and that is a terrible assumption.

[-Grey-]

well you know what they say everybody lies right

I never lie.

[-Grey-]

aight cool

grey talk to me

Wassup girlfriend?

[-Grey-]

speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

With my EYES!

[-Grey-]

speaking of grey

i'm kind of curious how he's actually reading me

I'm reading you as town. I just think you're confbiasing a bit.

That said, I'm likely to sheep RC if Cass flips scum because no way does scum enter the game power-bussing the way RC came in screaming for cass' head. He's pretty much conftown when she flips red.

[-Grey-]

You were townreading me D1 too, right? Do you remember exactly why?

Iirc, you seemed to be the one actually driving the game forward.

When you reconsider your reads, you do so through an objective lens, not like Cass who paints someone as scummy as possible to shop for a wagon.

[-Grey-]

if i'm just saying "whelp everyone's town TB/rakkar" is it actually driving the game forward?

No, and I don't see where you got that was what my post indicated in the slightest.

and more on the second part pls

Like, you actually ask questions about things to rebuild your read. You don't just make a huge scum wall post and put the onus on the other guy to defend against it.

[-Grey-]

I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

I don't bus.

It's a stupid tactic that is overused when a little dancing could avoid a scum lynch 99% of the time.

[-Grey-]

I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.

So what would be characteristic?
Even though you can't bring up examples, you could still summarize it right?

I don't bus.

It's a stupid tactic that is overused when a little dancing could avoid a scum lynch 99% of the time.

that's not real

Your face isn't real.

[-Grey-]

certain degree of separation there (lack of serious questioning, not much attempt to understand motivations), helpful tone, nulltown-ish reads, etc

This is bullshit.

I spent a good portion of the day suspecting him, and never had him anywhere in the same vicinity of any read that had town anywhere in it.

Straight "null" was the highest he ever got in my reads, and he was a scumread for quite a while.

[-Grey-]

certain degree of separation there (lack of serious questioning, not much attempt to understand motivations), helpful tone, nulltown-ish reads, etc

This is bullshit.

I spent a good portion of the day suspecting him, and never had him anywhere in the same vicinity of any read that had town anywhere in it.

Straight "null" was the highest he ever got in my reads, and he was a scumread for quite a while.

And I know Cass already knows all this, because she spent d1 defending mbg from me.

[-Grey-]

And I know Cass already knows all this, because she spent d1 defending mbg from me.

And when was this? I defended myself, and I don't remember Cass ever defending me.

True, my bad. I blame my shitty memory.

[-Grey-]

Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

[-Grey-]

hi grey

Hi!

[-Grey-]

:dead:

@schadd_ this is what i meant by me being fun/easy to fuck with earlier in the game i think

I only do it because I luvs ya!

[-Grey-]

Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

Yeah, though we need to find scum first.

We have, but you don't want to bus.

Instead, you'd rather throw out scumreads with no reasons behind them and discredit your buddy's wagon.

[-Grey-]

^ advocating for the lynch of a player he expects to flip town.

[-Grey-]

tbh schadd_ flipping town would also help.

[-Grey-]

how does a creature-gray team look?

thats what I was wondering when I asked about greys partners

Granted I don't bus, but do you really think I'd hard townread my partner and refuse to say why?

Wouldn't that raise more questions than it would answer? Why would I want to do that as scum?

[-Grey-]

Gigabyte/Grey actually makes sense too.

I'm getting tired of your shit.

VOTE: RC

Make a case or eat rope.

[-Grey-]

Gigabyte/Grey actually makes sense too.

I'm getting tired of your shit.

VOTE: RC

Make a case or eat rope.

If you're town your play has been craptastic this game and you should feel bad about it.

Where's the scum motivation in my play? My town play is always craptastic, that's a bullshit excuse.

[-Grey-]

Why is the guy with an ego through the fucking roof self describing their play as craptastic?

It's objectively true.

My shitty play sometimes yields some pretty awesome results because scum jumps on top of a landmine, but it doesn't change that my play in itself is shit.

Like, I claimed cop on day fucking one. Wound up catching two scum from it because they wanted me lynched, but got zero use of my role.

[-Grey-]

Okay then mr. shitty town I really don't care what you have to say and I don't particularly think that you're town so you can either shut the fuck up and vote somewhere else or I am going to lynch you today and if town loses because of it then it's no one's problem but yours.

Fuck that. You want to cast shade about me, I want a fucking case.

[-Grey-]

grey can i get a reads list

If I had one, sure.

At this point, all I know for sure is that I don't want to lynch you or Creature.

RC is fishing for lynches here, and I'm getting fed up with it.

[-Grey-]

VOTE: Grey fuck off you obtuse twit

How about that case?

[-Grey-]

so what's the difference between your reads and his?

What are yours? Why don't you show us what a good little towny's reads should look like? Because I'm fucking stumped.

[-Grey-]

Towny: Rask
Townlean: Schadd, MattBlack
Nullscum: Grey, GigaByteTroubadour
Scummy: Cassielle, Creature

So you were voting a scum lean of your two scumreads simply because I demanded a case for your read on me?

Lol no.

[-Grey-]

Okay, I'm feeling a Matt/RC scumteam here.

Read Matt's ISO and do a search for Shade. He starts out townreading Shade, them does this weird switch up where he posts a reads list with Shade in the null range and gets defensive when Cass questions him (561), feeling the need to point out that although schadd is a townread, Shade, who is one line below schadd, is null-scum when Cass was asking why he wasn't reading Shade as scummier than his reads list made him out to be.

That looks to me like some dancing to avoid further scrutiny.

And I still don't think 837 comes from town.

[-Grey-]

Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

Yeah, though we need to find scum first.

We have, but you don't want to bus.

Instead, you'd rather throw out scumreads with no reasons behind them and discredit your buddy's wagon.

when did you start scumreading creature? this feels really out of left-field

I was being snarky.

[-Grey-]

Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

Yeah, though we need to find scum first.

We have, but you don't want to bus.

Instead, you'd rather throw out scumreads with no reasons behind them and discredit your buddy's wagon.

when did you start scumreading creature? this feels really out of left-field

grey can i get a reads list

If I had one, sure.

At this point, all I know for sure is that I don't want to lynch you or Creature.

RC is fishing for lynches here, and I'm getting fed up with it.

Oh shit I can't believe I didn't notice this.

VOTE: Grey

Lol.

I rest my case.

[-Grey-]

bwuh

?????????????????????

didn't he just say he was townreading me or at least heavily insinuate it??

grey your brand of assholery needs explanation please and ty

ok but this in relation to 1237 still needs some sort of explanation

Yeah, I said I was townreading you in 1237.

So?

[-Grey-]

Yeah, I said I was townreading you in 1237.

So?

grey can i get a reads list

If I had one, sure.

At this point, all I know for sure is that I don't want to lynch you or Creature.

RC is fishing for lynches here, and I'm getting fed up with it.

just pointing out that gbT isnt in that post anywhere

still not seeing the issue gbT has there tho

Eh. I wasn't thinking about her at that point, but that doesn't mean I stopped townreading her out of nowhere.

Creature was being bandied about and I didn't like what RC was saying about him, is the only reason he was on my mind.

[-Grey-]

rask is conftown, grey and rc are strong town, gbT is schroedinger alignment, schadd_ mbg creature have the whiff of brimstone and vile secrets to them

Where do you get RC being town?

Look at his play today. He's been Lynch shopping and casting shade on me without actually giving a case.

[-Grey-]

Counterwagons and looming lynches aren't my concern. That's shit scum has to worry about.

As long as I'm still in the game, it's my job to find the Scum, my own fate be damned.

So you led a counterwagon... so what? The only way that gets you any towncred in my book is if Creature flips scum. Which he won't.

Scum frequently townreads a player they perceive to be an easy lynch for the towncred when they flip town, so you leading a competing wagon on my strongest townread doesn't get you any brownie points from me.

[-Grey-]

What happened

Matt decided to bus.

[-Grey-]

Matt's flip makes no sense.

He went from voting me in 1310 to saying I called the entire scumteam and voting with me in 1345.

At this point, I'd rather see his flip than RC's.

VOTE: matt

[-Grey-]

UNVOTE:

This should be interesting.

[-Grey-]

If RC has a history of bussing then him hammering Schadd wouldn't let him coast to end game. It would be 1v8 uphill battle.

If he didn't have a history of bussing, you'd use that against him too!

I'm calling bullshit.

[-Grey-]

Yeah, still good with this.

VOTE: matt

[-Grey-]

I don't recall a town slot in the last year ever being pretty sure that I was town.

Where did that scummy come from then?

[-Grey-]

I don't recall a town slot in the last year ever being pretty sure that I was town.

Where did that scummy come from then?

Smart play and assloads of emotional manipulation.

Which... accomplished... what...?

[-Grey-]

If he was a real newbie it'd be a towntell but he has offsite experience so it isn't

Not sure where you got this from.

"Does it matter?" implies it does matters

Does it?

[-Grey-]

I would lynch Creature today as well.

You either bus your buddy today, or I will lynch you if you try to slink off his wagon.

To all: This is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes burning up the clock anti-town. It gives scum opportunity to make town second-guess themselves and derail the wagon on them.

[-Grey-]

He can't claim doctor.

hi rc

That's interesting.

[-Grey-]

which part of that quote

that i knew it was an rc alt or that rc thinks he can't claim doctor (he can't)

Yes.

[-Grey-]

no, like, the thing where a wrong account posted here. i mean we don't do alts at dominion forum but that's the sorta thing that gets modkilled

Altslipping happens.

[-Grey-]

lol yes we can.

they are scumpartners schadd.

If they're scum partners, why would Creature tie himself to Matt right before Matt's flip?

[-Grey-]

If they're scum partners, why would Creature tie himself to Matt right before Matt's flip?

Probably because I'm not scum, genius.

I was pointing out the flaw in cow's logic, genius.

Creature isn't your partner.

[-Grey-]

lol yes we can.

they are scumpartners schadd.

If they're scum partners, why would Creature tie himself to Matt right before Matt's flip?

lynch mbg -> lynch creature is already seeming like the course of action; scum creature wants to raise questions (like yours from just now for example) so that such doesn't happen

Preflip associatives are bad.

Creature is town. Matt is Scum.

The end.

[-Grey-]

@ rask creature and -grey-, top two scum reads other than matt before we end day

RC & uh... schadd, maybe?

RC is my main scumread, though.

[-Grey-]

I can't hammer him though he's only at l-2 now

So put him at L-1 so Cass can.

Once he flips scum, powerlynch RC tomorrow.

[-Grey-]

0 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes

what?

Why would you alter the text inside the quote? If you had simply quoted the post, it would have kept the countdown.

(expired on 2017-01-22 00:18:35)

[-Grey-]

Not if you copy the text and click the quote button. That's how I always quote.

It's useful for selective quoting from walls, but it also strips formatting.

[-Grey-]

I thought grey was going to push the angle that editing the countdown was purposely done with scum incentive to confuse us

Lol.

So paranoid.

[-Grey-]

in my imo opinion)

in my in my opinion opinion?

I'm so glad I'm not the only person that caught that.

[-Grey-]

Still pretty certain the dude's scum.

You jumping off the wagon certainly makes sense, then.

[-Grey-]

anyway, back to square 1. grey, why does your iso read like coasting scum?

You can say I did a lot of things, but coasting ain't one of them.

I shoved the Matt lynch down people's throats. That's the polar fucking opposite of coasting.

[-Grey-]

grey can u talk to me about your thought process in townreading cassie, scumreading, and then townreading again D1?

Jesus Christ, I can barely tell you what I thought of supper yesterday.

I'll have to reread the game to remember wtf was going on.

[-Grey-]

he's teasing you

No, the dipshït is actually serious.

[-Grey-]

incidentally, i want to call someone a cunt before the game's over but it should surely wait for a good time (wikipedia describes it as one of the few words left in english with shock value)

Telegraphing your intent nullified the shock value.

[-Grey-]

u said that as scum before!!!

scum: caught!!

I wouldn't remember what alignment I might have said that as before.

That's kinda my point.

[-Grey-]

incidentally, i want to call someone a cunt before the game's over but it should surely wait for a good time (wikipedia describes it as one of the few words left in english with shock value)

Telegraphing your intent nullified the shock value.

does that make him scum

Does 1799 make me scum?

[-Grey-]

u said that as scum before!!!

scum: caught!!

Also, if you're just going to do shit like this, I won't bother with the reread because it'll be nothing but a ginormous waste of time since you're just going to call anything I say scum anyway.

[-Grey-]

I remember a bit about day one.

I initially liked cass' posting day one, it looked productive and seemed to vibe well with my own thoughts.

Then she turned around and painted me as scum in a way that seemed extremely disingenuous, to put it kindly. It felt like she had an agenda to push and was invested in the read.

Then her... reaction... to the blowback she received struck me as wounded town.

[-Grey-]

If Cass was scum, I'm pretty sure I'd have been a priority nk simply because of our d1 interactions.

[-Grey-]

If Cass was scum, I'm pretty sure I'd have been a priority nk simply because of our d1 interactions.

but you layed off of her

i'm going to see how genuine i think the interaction is once i can reread

If you were scum and I came after you the way I went after Cass d1, would you leave me alive and simply hope I didn't get another hair up my ass?

[-Grey-]

If Cass was scum, I'm pretty sure I'd have been a priority nk simply because of our d1 interactions.

but you layed off of her

i'm going to see how genuine i think the interaction is once i can reread

If you were scum and I came after you the way I went after Cass d1, would you leave me alive and simply hope I didn't get another hair up my ass?

idk. they did that with me no problem. and rc. i mean, it would not hard to realize cass is a dangerously easy lynch this game. in fact, she would be such an easy mislynch if it weren't for tb and mbg

All the more reason to NK the one person that showed a desire and willingness to push her wagon.