Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[mattblackguy]

Hm, I don't really see what ThinkBig did that was scummy. All I see is him asking some questions at the start of the game to spark some conversation, and then him making a joke a little later. Just seems like Giga, and Schadd are tunneling on him.

(Also hi everyone! This is my first game so I hope everyone has fun)

[mattblackguy]

@Gigabyte, Why do you say RVS is over even though about half of the people haven't even posted yet, and there doesn't seem to be any leads to go off of right now.

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Rakkar

Just because I wanted to vote someone and also because Rakkar is scum.

[mattblackguy]

GAYreen (and any of the newer players here), have you read any games on here? It might be a good idea to see what's considered scummy/townie (if you don't already have a sense) or just get an idea of how a game usually goes.

Do you recommend any games in particular? I've read a little bit of day 1/day 2 from a game, but games are so long that it's hard to really read through a full game.

[mattblackguy]

So far I read both Rask, and Giga as town. To me it seems like Rask is trying to put some pressure on ThinkBig, and get more analysis from people, which seems like a town thing to do. I can't seem to put into words why I think Giga is town besides the fact that I think all of thier posts seem pro-town.(sorry for vagueness :/)

At first I didn't think anything of ThinkBig asking questions but him claiming at L-2 seemed very odd to me. Like (1) I don't think anyone had intent to lynch him especially when we have 13 days left in the day, still have plenty of discussion left, and 2 people still haven't posted. (2) A vanilla townie claim doesn't really have much weight to it, because wouldn't everyone claim vanilla townie on day 1? It's not like a power role would claim their actual role day 1 because they would know they would die that night, and all mafia would also claim vanilla townie.

I'm not sure what to think about Creature at the moment. It seems he's being vague with all his posts, and can't get a read on him.

Everyone else I'm pretty much null on.

(sorry if my reads/analysis sucks. I'm just typing what comes to mind, and would very much appreciate feedback on how I can improve)

[mattblackguy]

voting me is scummy (+some tone je ne sais quoi that i don't like)

Why was voting on you scummy? And what does the stuff in the parentheses mean?

[mattblackguy]

Messed up on the quote.

gayreen: agh, null. his only voting item was on me; newbie!clumsy!scumhunting is townie, voting me is scummy (+some tone je ne sais quoi that i don't like)

[mattblackguy]

oh matt i forgot to mention

i definitely think a pr would claim pr, getting lynched as provable town is way worse than nk'd

plus if he's scum and claims pr he can bait the real pr to claim (or get away with a fake-claim). you're kind of close with your logic here actually, a PR only shouldn't CC D1. Always claim your real role at L-1 (and are town) unless you absolutely know what you're doing

Alright, I'm a little confused. Can you explain to me why a PR shouldn't CC day one? Wouldn't it be good to CC someone that you know is scum to get them lynched? Worst case scenario (and maybe I'm not thinking this all the way through) is that the town wouldn't know which one is the real PR and don't lynch either. If town doesn't lynch either doesn't this mean that the mafia couldn't kill the PR at night because they know that their mafia will be lynched the next day?

[mattblackguy]

Since I am at L-2 or 1, I'm going to claim. I am a Vanilla Townie

When I get home from work, I'll catch up on everything.

I disagree. I think there are times in which one should claim when they are at L2/1 even before someone declares intent. I'll expand on that later.

So, are you going to expand on what you meant?

[mattblackguy]

mattblackguy - Town
GAYreenHamster - Town
Shade - Town
rakkar - Mafia
schadd_- Town
Raskolnikov (SE) - Town
ThinkBig (SE) - Mafia
gigabyteTroubadour (SE) - Town
Creature (IC) - Town

So did we win?

[mattblackguy]

By the way, my previous post was 100% serious. I really do believe Rakkar, and ThinkBig are the mafia. Rakkar hasn't contributed anything to the game. He hasn't posted any opinions on anything that has gone on in this game so far, and hasn't posted any of his thoughts about the other players (who he thinks is town, who he thinks is scum etc.) I will not remove my vote from Rakkar unless he actually contributes something.

[mattblackguy]

but the question for the audience here is why shade over TB

Well to me it seems like Shade is more likely to flip town than ThinkBig just because of the questions, and points that shade has been bringing up. Shade really does show a drive to scumhunt, and I don't think he would be asking these types of questions if he were scum (Although I do not really know his personality outside of this game) :

How can we bring down someone's guard to understand their motivations?

If there are several behaviors that are already known as scummy, why would any scum do them? Unless if you're saying a newbie might do them when they're scum which contradicts with your action - pointing them out to them.

Not only this, but Shade has posted his opinions and thoughts on almost every other players actions. I really don't think Shade would be trying so hard to figure out everyone's motives, because if he was scum there really wouldn't be anything for him to figure out (besides who the PR is). Everything he has said just comes off as genuine to me.

[mattblackguy]

Testing to see if this post goes through.

[mattblackguy]

post or perish (i say voting for the person out of the most active most likely to flip scum )

I don't really follow what you are saying here. Aren't the more active players more likely to be town, because contributing as town as a direct positive correlation to our goal? And aren't the players that are lurking, and not contributing much more likely to be scum, because they don't want to help the town figure out the puzzle? (sorry for my previous post, but I tried to post this 3 times and it wasn't going through!)

[mattblackguy]

I'm keen to play but it feels pretty overwhelming to to see ten pages to read in less than 48 hours.

Yeaaah. I'm reconsidering what I previously thought about Rakkar. Going back it seems like Rakkar is just a kid, and this game didn't turn out like he thought it would so he just disappeared. I don't think that's really indicative of whether he was scum or not. Since Rakkar is most likely getting replaced later today I'll just drop my vote on him now, and see what the new person says.

UNVOTE: Rakkar

Also I see that ThinkBig is on V/LA until January 15th so doesn't seem like we're going to get a response from him anytime soon. We probably should just move on for the time being.

[mattblackguy]

@Matt, if Rakkar's replacement reads as obvious town, who do you think would be the best lynch? Shade is the only person i can marginally think flips scum if not TB/Rakkar but then TB/Shade doesn't make much sense to me.

Hmm. I could see Gayreen, and ThinkBig as a possible scum team. Gayreen did initially attack Schadd (ThinkBig's first voter) for what seemed like BS reasoning (Lynched and left?). He also hasn't posted his reads on anyone, even though he asked a question if it was ok to post town reads. Lastly it does seem to me that Gayreen is just following whatever you(Giga) say in an attempt to gain a town read from you.

[mattblackguy]

Lastly it does seem to me that Gayreen is just following whatever you(Giga) say in an attempt to gain a town read from you.

Eh disregard this. Looking back at the posts there isn't much to support this. Although I still want to know what Gayreen's reads on everyone are though.

[mattblackguy]

@mod I removed my vote from Rakkar(now cassielle)

Welcome Cassielle! I think that sounds good.

[mattblackguy]

sleeping for real now :dea:

Giga is scum. They lied about going to sleep! /s

[mattblackguy]

mbg's read lists are ugly. let me look for his second readlist, its a MESS. it also DOES NOT follow from his first list in the least.

What about my second readlist doesn't follow on from my first read list? In my first read list I was basically saying I think rask, and giga are town, and thinkbig was mafia. Null pretty much on everyone else. Second read list which was a couple days after I was saying basically the same thing. Only difference being I switched from null to mafia on Rakkar because he send he was going to make an effort to contribute but never did.

Also on the rakkar read, I did later say that I think I was wrong about Rakkar not contributing being AI. It did seem like he was just a kid, and was overwhelmed.

mbg's hard to read-ish but he's lurky and his reads are at least passably anti-town

I still don't see how my reads are anti-town. I just posted what I was feeling at that point of the game.

my mbg read has dropped to nullscum on a doublecheck and rethink of reasoning. the anarchist vibes are likely a personality trait shinign through in general (see avatar), and his reads list is heavily floated toward the middle with few actually dead center purenull -- and those who are at the middle are the strongest of townreads imo. hes prob not on the scum team but hes not exactly playing pro-town. also not getting purenoob vibes, so theres something to be said for that.

What anarchist vibes? lol I really have no idea what you mean by this. If anything I was sheeping more than I should have by putting too much trust into Giga. You also say that I was nullreading people that were obviously town. I'm assuming you are refering to Gayreen, and Creature here. I still don't see how early in the game Creature was an obvious town read. He was just fluffing at that point of time.

About me being anti-town. This is why at the end of my first read list I asked for some advice to help me improve because I know in my first game I'm going to do some stupid stuff.

[mattblackguy]

Creature :

Spoiler:

At first I was skeptical of Creature because everyone was saying he was confirmed town, but I didn't really see how they came to this conclusion. Later though after Cass came in, Creature seems like he's genuinely trying to scum hunt. I just wish he would have given all this analysis that he had earlier when the game was at a standstill.
Overall Read : Town

ThinkBig :

Spoiler:

I still think his RQS was fine, and Schadd, and Giga were overreacting to this. Schadd, Giga, and Rask quickly joined the ThinkBig train to put ThinkBig at L-2, and he claimed VT. He then claimed there are good reasons to claim at L-2 even before someone declares intent to lynch. This pinged me, and apparently some others. He's said this 5 days ago , and since then basically has been MIA. He comes around every other day, and says he will post that night or whatever, but he never actually does it.

Ever since that very first day ThinkBig hasn't contributed anything, but looking through his profile it still seems like he is contributing to his other games albeit not terribly much. ThinkBig is avoiding this game, and that pings me as scum.

Overall Read : Medium Scum

Gayreenhamster :

Spoiler:

He seems to have taken to Giga as his mentor/leader early in the game (probably because he has played with Giga before in PS mafia). Early into the first day he wanted to put ThinkBig at L-1 even though just before he said that nothing ThinkBig did was scummy. Why would he want to put someone at L-1 if he thought they weren't scummy? Pings me as scum. Also there's the fact that right after Gayreen said he's going to put Think at L-1, Rask asked Gayreen what his read on Think was, and he never responded.

And that's basically it for Gayreen. Besides that all I've seen from him is post fluff like :

ok, im back from dinner

anyways, im turning in for the night (most likely), so be back tomorrow

So gayreen was semi-active on the first/second day, but hasn't really contributed much since. Also hasn't taken many stances on issues yet most people are townreading him hard.(at least Giga, Creature, and Cass are) I still don't understand it.

Overall read : null-scum

Cassielle :

Spoiler:

I really feel like Cass brought some dissension that this town needed. It certainly did make me think more about many of my reads. For one I think your Rask read is pretty spot on. When I actually go back and re-read the thread it does seem to me like Rask's attempt at scumhunting is half-assed.

I'm not sure I follow you on pointing the finger at Giga for top scum read though. Still think Rask is a better pick. You question Giga on why they shot down Think's RQS, and they already answered way earlier in the game with :

felt like TB's vote would be a good discussion point so that votes wouldn't have to be random. force people to take sides and good stuff like that

i kind of overestimated that potential

honestly rvs is more of a state of mind than a finite stage so usually when people say "rvs is over" it's not serious or at least subjective to whoever said that

Only thing I find a little strange is that you're reading pretty much everyone as scum/null-scum, and are only reading 2 people as town.

Overall read : Town

Rask :

Spoiler:

In my first read post I read Rask as town mainly because Giga was reading him as town. (That's what I mean in my other post when I said sheeping too much). Now looking back a lot of his iso is full of fluff, and filler to arbitrarily inflate his post count. To me it seemed like he jumped on the ThinkBig lynch train becaues he was an easy target at that point in time.

After the ThinkBig lynch train kinda fizzled out he just there making little comments, but not doing much scumhunting. Just many one-liners without much substance to them. I know Rask said he prefers to play town, and his play looks like he's just trying to glide through the game as scum.

Overall read : Top scum atm

Schadd :

Spoiler:

Schadd was the very first on to jump on ThinkBig for the RQS, and his provided reasoning for voting was decent imo. I can easily see why he would think some of ThinkBig's questions could have scum motivations. (Mainly ThinkBig's 4th question)

i feel in a bit of a weird position. GBT can apparently confidently townread half the cast, and neither of rask and creature has really called them out on it. so, uh, we're golden i guess?

This in particular really sounds townie to me. He was the first one to call out the fact that GBT is practically town reading most of the town.

this definitely describes less than all scenarios. this is a mafia forum, and it's probably hard to find if you're completely unfamiliar with the game, but there has probably existed some newbie, somewhere, that would see this post and say something readable about their role. it's really not a large probability, but scum might be able to pick off a PR with little risk, and i don't really see any way the question could add to discussion/hold people accountable somehow.

I also like schadd's reasoning in this quote. Not much else I have to say about him though. He seems pretty chill, and he looks like he's casually trying to scumhunt.

Overall Read : Town

Ok this post was kinda tiring. I'll do Giga, and shade later. Still need more from shade to form a better opinion on him, but I will say that I read Giga as town for now. I'll explain on this later, but for now I'll just list player list in order from towniest to scummiest :

[Towniest]
Creature (top town partially because everyone reads him as town)
Gigabyte
Cassielle
Schadd
Shade
Gayreen
ThinkBig
Rask
[scummiest]

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Rask

[mattblackguy]

Why are your reads the popular consensus?

Not the popular consensus anymore. Ever since Cass has come in the town seems a little more split. Before we were basically circle jerking, reading each other as town, and reading the lurkers as scum. I'm glad we moved away from that, and think we're in a better state now.

[mattblackguy]

That's nice and all, but what has everyone else besides TB done to convince you they're town?

It was more so since I thought rakkar, and thinkbig was scum that everyone else had to be town (because of the rolelist). My thinking was pretty naive and noobess now looking back at it in hindsight. Honestly this is my first game, and I'm still trying to figure things out.

[mattblackguy]

That's a deflection, not an answer. When you posted those reads, they were the popular consensus.

Why?

Before we were basically circle jerking, reading each other as town, and reading the lurkers as scum

[mattblackguy]

i follow the reasoning on gayreen even if i dont agree with it -- there a paranoia that stems from the inactivity, and i admit that is something i might have considered more, but to be fair, you have even fewer posts over all, what makes you more town here?

Many of his posts are pointless one-liners that have added nothing to the game, which is why I think just looking at total post counts is misleading. Also when gayreen was asked to explain, or take sides he wouldn't do it, but would still post those one-liners.

[mattblackguy]

Ew.

Not a fan.

Yeaaah. I'm reconsidering what I previously thought about Rakkar. Going back it seems like Rakkar is just a kid, and this game didn't turn out like he thought it would so he just disappeared.

And this was also a big reason why I dropped my vote. Seems like you're only reading half of my posts, and then taking them out of context.

[mattblackguy]

Hypocrite, thy name is matt.

Yeah I did admit earlier that I sheeped Giga a little too much, but when I did sheep him it was because I agreed with what he was saying, not because I wanted him to townread me.

[mattblackguy]

shade feels more scummy than gayreen or even tb imo. can i get the reasoning for him being above them? i guess another way to word this is -- what do you weight more when looking for scumreads? activity, content, tone, or gut? theres good reasons to reconsider shades placement based on some of those.

I don't put too much weight into activity because it can be easily fabricated (See Rask). I guess I would say my scumreads come mostly from the type of content I see people post, and tone. If I feel someone is putting their reads out there, and is genuine with what they say (meaning they 100% believe what they are saying) then I'm more likely to town read them. It's the main reason I have a townread on schadd.

And again I try not to post if my post isn't going to advance the game at all. I don't like fluff too much, and try to avoid it when possible, which is why my post count is so much lower than many others.

[mattblackguy]

imo tb and gayreen pinging your scumdar for inactivity isnt very consistent here, even considering timing, shades also dropped off after an initial okay-ish showing

Kinda confused. In my most recent reads list, I never said that I think shade is town, or even town-lean. Yes schadd, and shade are right next to each other on my reads list, but I read schadd as town, while I read shade more as null-scum.

[Towniest]
Creature (top town partially because everyone reads him as town) - town
Gigabyte - town
Cassielle - town
Schadd - town
Shade - null scum
Gayreen - null scum
ThinkBig - med scum
Rask - top scum
[scummiest]

So yeah I view Shade similar to how I view Gayreen although it looked like Shade has put more effort into his posts than Gayreen did.

[mattblackguy]

main thing with shade is, his posts arent just sparse, theyre also real fake and forced (creature noticed too) and low on content. a lot of pushback at being questioned but its gt a joking tone without the outrage i expect from town.

Alright well then I think I need to read over his posts again. I just didn't get that impression when I read over his posts the first time.

[mattblackguy]

UNVOTE: Rask

I don't want the day to end just yet. There's still plenty to talk about.

[mattblackguy]

Did you see how fast mbg unvoted when I put Rask to L-1?

We have 8 days left in the day, and I don't want to end it yet. With Rask at L-1 someone can just come and quickhammer him which I want to avoid for now.

[mattblackguy]

@matt quickhammer would be a scum indicator from where im standing and id make it a policy lynch to wreck them on d2 for it.

This is fair. I guess I just saw L-1, and overreacted because L-1 just seems scary.

[mattblackguy]

@Matt, when did Rask become your top scumread??

I was never sold on Rask being town, but I kinda sheeped you, and gave him more leniency in the beginning of the game because you were townreading him. (I realise this was a bad play now). When cass pointed out that Rask is posting a lot without much substance behind his posts + the fact it didn't seem like Rask wasn't trying to hard to scumhunt put Rask as top scum to me.

[mattblackguy]

@Shade if you think Rask, and ThinkBig are town then who are you scumreading?

@cassielle

Also hasn't taken many stances on issues yet most people are townreading him hard.(at least Giga, Creature, and Cass are) I still don't understand it.

o_o I never trusted gayreen/grey

[mattblackguy]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=66768

Alright I think I found something pretty interesting. Post #14 Rask says :

Although the thing about roleblocker and claiming isn't going to apply here since we're goon/goon.
I think in this case if you're l-1 late in the day and you think you'll get lynched anyways you should claim tracker so I know who to target
but if you think you can survive and that people can swing to another lynch claiming VT gives you a chance at people reconsidering

Before Rask claimed tracker in this game he asked if there was anything to change Cass' mind or if she was just going to lynch him anyway. Cass responded saying she doesn't think Rask is capable on convincing her that he's not scum. And then immediately afterwards Rask claims tracker. This lines up 100% perfectly with Rask's scum play in previous games.

So basically I don't believe Rask's tracker claim at all.

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Rask

That can't just be coincidence.

[mattblackguy]

im feeling the same way about the defense dismissal. i also agree with mbg that 8 days is good time to keep up the scumhunting. rask is just like, digging this giant hole atm, not accepting pro-town advice early and its hurting him now on top of everything else. i think that wagon isnt at risk of losing momentum when the time comes and we can focus on finding scumbuddies. ill let you guys direct that tho because i dont mind giving rask more airtime to bury himself atm

Are you 100% saying you're not going to reconsider trying to lynch me today?

1: claim could have been thinking he was at l-1 and not being around. ive read my share of noob games here and that is nooot uncommon -- someones not home, theyre at l-1 without intent, they claim and beg people not to hammer before they get home.

2: you never said a word about the underreaction, you let him lurk and moved to rakkar as your prime suspect lol

3: im saying that i dont think youre capable of convincing me you arent scum. if you want to try, you got all the rest of d1 to do so. i recommend working on an ironclad defense and making a masterpost on it instead of the fluffspam

Okay fuck you.

I'm tracker.

Stop wasting your time idiots.

[mattblackguy]

i want your opinion on -grey- atm

I do think Grey could be scum, but only really if Rask flips town. He seems like he was pushing too much on Rask for them to be a team. Pushed pretty hard on Rask in #570, #568, and has Rask has top scumread in #558. Why do you think he would push Rask so much if he was scum with him? I guess it's possible that he thought Rask was a goner and just jumped on the wagon, but still in the case lynching his mafia partner on day 1 makes the game extremely hard for him to win. I think if he really was in a team with Rask he would try to save Rask not push him farther down. That's how I'm seeing it anyway.

[mattblackguy]

actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.

VOTE: Cassielle

your move. ill be back tomorrow if the day aint done.

wtf? why the self vote? Grey broke Cass?

[mattblackguy]

UNVOTE: Rask

[mattblackguy]

I didn't believe the game but after everyone has been active after the claim and no one CCed there was no reason to keep my vote there

[mattblackguy]

Rask was at L-2 at the time, and the pressure was shifting more to ThinkBig at L-1 so I think it was awkward for him to claim at that time when he wasn't about to get lynched at that moment.

[mattblackguy]

Trying to force a CC. I don't see why a PR would claim when pressure is being released though. Wouldn't a PR want to keep their role hidden for as long as possible? There was a very real possibility that ThinkBig would have been lynched today, and Rask wouldn't even have to claim today.

[mattblackguy]

Eh you could be right. At worst it's NAI, but I still don't believe Rasks claim because it followed step by step what Rask would do if he were scum. Would Rask make the same play if he was actually tracker? That idk

[mattblackguy]

Yeah you're right. I didn't remember the time that she claimed since I was asleep. Was misrembeeinv it thinking ThinkBig was at L-1 and Rask was at L-2. Btw on me still being suspicious of Rask at the time. I already expressed the fact I didn't want to lynch yet so he knew I wouldn't put him back at L-1.

[mattblackguy]

But it was late at night so Rask could have claimed because he was going to bed, and didn't want to get lynched while asleep. That's something I didn't consider.

[mattblackguy]

Who the hell is Shade, btw?

Was about to ask what your read on him was.

[mattblackguy]

Whatever happened to ThinkBig explaining his reads earlier? This is becoming a super common thing from him that I'm not even surprised that he didn't post them. Only thing I'm wondering though is ThinkBig stalling or is he just overwhelmed with irl issues. If he's overwhelmed with irl issues then I don't know why he didn't replace out long ago.

[mattblackguy]

It's typically my approach outside of the newbie queue, so it's sort of turned into habit I guess.

How you played mafia elsewhere, and if yes then where/how much? You have less than 2 months on this site, but seems like you have more experience than that.

[mattblackguy]

{Creature}
{Casserole, Gigs, Rask}

{ThinkBig, Shade}
{schadd_ }

what about me?

[mattblackguy]

mbg+schadd_ is possible... feels forced but i dont know why i have that vibe.

Why does that feel forced? I think it makes sense if schadd flipped scum that I could be his scum buddy, but I don't think schadd is scum.

[mattblackguy]

How does this make sense from a town perspective??

What do you mean? Which person's perspective are you talking about?

[mattblackguy]

If you're confirmed town to yourself, why would you think it's okay for others to consider you Scum?

Of course I know I'm town, but other town don't. What I was saying is I felt stronger about schadd being town than others, so I would understand why if schadd did flip scum then others would make the connection, and say I could possible be his scum partner.

[mattblackguy]

your post man, you jus about said "im scum and schadd_'s my scum buddy" there except im not sure if its possible for you to make that bad of a scumslip seriously

That's not what I was saying at all... Maybe it came out wrong but I explained in my previous post what I meant.

[mattblackguy]

I was trying to look at the game from the perspective of others, and how others view me.

[mattblackguy]

I was trying to look at the game from the perspective of others, and how others view me.

but back to this.

like i said, thats not a town way of thinking. why do you care about what others think here? youre town and you know it so i dont see why you wouldnt assume that town would find you, esp when theyre looking for scum. if you share their wincon you should fit right in.

Not sure 100% what you mean. Do you mean why do I care if others think I'm scum or something else? I care, because I want to understand their reasoning, and I can put myself in their shoes it'll help me understand their train of thought.

[mattblackguy]

If you are doing that, then town will recognize their own. It's not your job to appeal to town, that is scum's job.

Got it. Yeah I realise what I said made no sense from a towns perspective now. I'm still not 100% sure how to do scum hunting right though. Like all my reads suck, and everything I thought was AI is actually NAI so I dont know what Im doing anymore.

[mattblackguy]

so I dont know what Im doing anymore.

Actually I never knew what I was doing, but for a small amount of time I thought I did but it's clear that I don't.

[mattblackguy]

Well, I suggest you find your groove because this kind of AtE won't keep you alive.

eh not really trying to appeal to anyones emotions. Just stating facts.

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: ThinkBig

L-1

I gave think the benefit of the doubt at first thinking his irl issues was the cause of his inactivity, but seeing how he's still active in other games that's just bullshit. He's not contributing, and it's clear that he will never contribute. I'm tired of him stalling for time.

[mattblackguy]

Welcome Radiant . You're in an interesting spot.

[mattblackguy]

TB, if you do not unvote Schadd in the next 24 hours I am going to hammer you.

Schadd is town and obviously so.

TB, doesn't know how to defend himself so he's just trying to push the mislynch on Schadd instead.

[mattblackguy]

I don't CC Rask.

I'm so confused right now though. Everyone is so confident that Cass is scum now, but all that anyone is saying is stuff like "Cass is 100% scum". Why can't you guys explain how she's 100% scum?

[mattblackguy]

matt are you a notetaker?

Not sure what you mean exactly.

[mattblackguy]

Do you take notes while you play? like in a word doc or notepad or something

No. Should I be taking notes?

[mattblackguy]

rask is scum. im pretty sure this idea is about as popular as diving off a cliff atm so im not going to press this. i cannot get traction on that wagon and i know it

How is rask scum when no one has counterclaimed his tracker claim? Rask is basically confirmed town now.

[mattblackguy]

Oh whoops, thought -Grey- was rakkar.

Cass was rakkar

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Grey

I'm down with the grey lynch.

Rask is confirmed town. I feel strongly that schadd, creature, and giga are town.

This leaves Grey, Cass, and RadiantCowbells as possible scum. I'm not really feeling Cass as scum. I just think Cass was trying to aggressively scum hunt day 1, and just tried to pull as much discussion out of everyone as she could. Wouldn't scum want to shut down discussion?

Only thing that feels really odd about Cass to me now is the fact that she's still reading Rask as scum even though he's confirmed town...

[mattblackguy]

I feel more strongly that Cass could be town over Grey which is why my vote is on him.

@RC If Grey flips scum then Rask could track you or Cass confirming one of you as town. Then we'll lynch the other.

[mattblackguy]

Can you explain to me why you think Cass is scum?

[mattblackguy]

You obviously feel strongly that Cass is scum, but you've never explained why you feel this way. I'm staying put with you, and grey as scum team unless you explain your reasoning a bit more.

[mattblackguy]

Again: there's no scumhunting in her ISO. Just her grandstanding about how everything everyone does is insanely scummy. At no point do I get the impression reading her posts that she is actually trying to solve the game, just feels like she wants to make people look scumm

ergo, we needed to look at those slots in detail. my methods were geared toward that. i cleared people quickly because i was trying to find the scum, not waste my time with probable townies.

ok going over the topic:

schadd_ still reads scummy. not as scummy but still scummy. light scumlean? something like that. idk how people are missing what me and grey saw there, its fluff everywhere and almost no scumhunting. a lot of helping people who are scumhunting but no real work himself. very defensive when scumread or questioned.

matts also looking scummy. we keep giving him outs because hes new and hes not unaware enough to not take them, but i mean... way im seeing it: just because someone is new to mafia does not mean they are new to manipulating group dynamics, esp blame-game dynamics (which is the basis of mafia in essence). we should probably be tougher on his mistakes and not be so quick to offer a town-explanation, which is as much my fault as anyone's. theres also the quickness to frame tb's actions in the way he did when radiant jumped into the game

gbT is unreadable currently. lack of info? no, but lack of something. i want to say gbT is a townread but i feel like i may have dismissed my earlier questions too early and i dont see any real reason to believe that a townread is a good fit there.

radiant is pinging my scumdar for a lot of the reasons -grey- did, but without the convoluted thought process to get there; it just falls out of the posts. i can see a world where radiant is town, but it doesnt feel likely. however that slot had a good (if sparse) run as Shade, so im not comfortable making this a strong read

-grey- is null for reasons discussed prior. ill take a strong stand on him when it gets to lylo/mylo, if im alive that long.

creature is town.

rask is scum. im pretty sure this idea is about as popular as diving off a cliff atm so im not going to press this. i cannot get traction on that wagon and i know it

p-edit: regarding discrediting your townbloc, gbT: i was in fact trying to do that. ill even tell you why. but first: if you really think that the way i shook up the gamestate was totally unnecessary, id like to see it in a post, clearly spelled out

Thanks RC, I think I see where you are coming from now. Cass says she clears people quickly because she wants to find scum and not waste time with townies yet her read list has everyone as scum/null but only one other person as town. Cass if your methods were geared toward finding scum then why is everyone on your list still scum/null?

VOTE: Cass

L-1

Btw RC the reason I asked you to explain why you thought Cass was scum was because I didn't understand the reasoning. There had to be something I was missing, and I didn't want to join the wagon without seeing what I was missing.

[mattblackguy]

UNVOTE: Cass

I'm going to sleep and I'm still not sure how I feel. I need to rethink a lot of things. Only thing I'm feeling good about is that Giga, Creature, and Rask are Town. We need to be certain about 1 more Town to win the game.

[mattblackguy]

And I know Cass already knows all this, because she spent d1 defending mbg from me.

And when was this? I defended myself, and I don't remember Cass ever defending me.

[mattblackguy]

I really don't think RC/Cass can be the scum team. Why would RC bus Cass so hard, and ask Rask to track him? He would basically lose after Rask tracks him so how can they be scum partners?

[mattblackguy]

Only people I can see being scum with Cass are Giga, and Creature, and I think they are both town.

[mattblackguy]

i don't get cass/gigabyte tbh

Because POE.

Rask is conf town.
I don't think Grey would bus Cass like this if they were both scum.
I don't think it makes sense for RC to join the game, and push for Cass lynch so hard, and then ask for a tracker when he has a reputation of bussing. Idk I guess he could be bussing but I still wouldn't understand the play.
I don't think Cass would lead the lynch of Schadd so hard on day 1 when most people were townreading Schadd.

So that leaves you and Creature.

Anyway I wasn't saying that Cass was scum and one of you are the scum partners. I was saying you and Creature are the only ones I can see making sense as the scum partners of Cass.

[mattblackguy]

Gigabyte/Grey
Gigabyte/Creature
RC/Schadd
Cass/???

That's what I'm feeling right now for the top 4 scum teams. The first two can be changed either way I don't know whether Creature or Grey are more likely to flip scum, but if either of them are scum Im feeling like it's with Gigabyte.

I don't like the creature or grey lynches right now because I feel Giga is more scummy then both.

Looking through Giga's ISO I don't really see them scumhunting day 1. They try to form a townblock early in day 1, but didn't do much later on.

Day 2, I didn't really like Giga's reads at all. They had Cass/RC as only 2, and town read everyone else. They basically said the scum team was Cass/RC and game is over, but that's one of the scum teams that make no sense to me.

VOTE: Gigabyte

Either Giga is town or RC is town. I can't see them both being town, and so far RC has done more to convince me in day 2 that he is town.

[mattblackguy]

Okay, I'm feeling a Matt/RC scumteam here.

Yeah I knew you would. You really don't like when people say you can be scum with Giga huh?

[mattblackguy]

Giga who do you think would be the best person to lynch today?

[mattblackguy]

Preflip associatives are trash, people.

First, flip scum. THEN find their partner.

Yeah, though we need to find scum first.

We have, but you don't want to bus.

Instead, you'd rather throw out scumreads with no reasons behind them and discredit your buddy's wagon.

when did you start scumreading creature? this feels really out of left-field

grey can i get a reads list

If I had one, sure.

At this point, all I know for sure is that I don't want to lynch you or Creature.

RC is fishing for lynches here, and I'm getting fed up with it.

Oh shit I can't believe I didn't notice this.

VOTE: Grey

[mattblackguy]

Giga, isn't Grey like conf scum now?

[mattblackguy]

I still think Grey is scum, and just fucked up really bad.

[mattblackguy]

also matt why did you ask 1312?

I wanted to see if you would try to defend him or not.

I still don't see how a townie can call someone scum, and then a little later say that they don't want to lynch the person they called scum.

[mattblackguy]

nop. my guy that i'm comparing him to will do that thing, addressing someone as scum, while being like "nah they're town."

As a joke or being serious? Because it didn't look like Grey was joking.

[mattblackguy]

why would i defend him if i pointed out the initial inconsistency though? dgi

Creature pointed out the inconsistency

[mattblackguy]

I meant creature pointed out the second post. I didn't realise that Grey said he was still townreading Creature after 1190

[mattblackguy]

Well shit, Grey was right. He found both scum, Schadd day 1, and RC day 2.

I played like his shit this game, but at least we won. Hopefully I'll play better in my next game.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

[mattblackguy]

RC/Schadd are the scum team.

[mattblackguy]

Matt decided to bus.

If that makes town lynch RC then sure

[mattblackguy]

But seriously though after we lynch RC. Rask tracks Schadd then we win.

[mattblackguy]

Rask if I get lynched today will you lynch MBG then Creature?

Why would he lynch me after you flip scum?

[mattblackguy]

Maybe he can explain this turn.

Yup. I'm putting together how rc, and schadd are scum now.

[mattblackguy]

I need to get the quotes and shit

[mattblackguy]

320
Schadd lies here, and says his team mate would be a bad lynch, because he's active and trying to scumhunt when he only had 7 real posts, and most of those posts like contained basic questions about the game. Really since when is 7/320 posts active and scumhunting? This is just a blatant lie.

Shade saw there was a ton of pressure on Schadd with him being at L-2, and had no idea how to react so he just flaked.

RC comes into the game immediately and calls Schadd obvious town. (Cass even asked RC why Schadd is obvious town but he never answered)

Scared of his teammate getting hammered day 1 RC just goes and hammers TB. RC knows if his teammate is hammered on the first day he'll be at a severe disadvantage, and would probably lose since he just called his teammate an obvious townie.

RC starts off day trying to push a lynch on Cass. Then changes to Creature because he feels it gives him a better chance at winning.

His whole case on Creature was that he was deflecting, and disengaged from the game. Yeah, well where? I don't see Creature deflecting anywhere. This is just RC posting BS to try to get Creature lynched. Of course he won't post a real case on Creature because he has none.

Seriously Creature is town, and when Creature flips town it will not help town at all, because we gain no knowledge at all from this lynch. Only thing lynching Creature does is help RC deflect the lynch to either Grey/Cass tomorrow.

ps. cass good job sheeping scum for the majority of day 2.

[mattblackguy]

He had to hammer if he wanted to win. If someone came in and hammered Schadd he would be tracked that night and lynched the next day. He had no choice. He dug himself in a hole saying that Schadd is obvious town and the only way out of it was to hammer ThinkBig.

[mattblackguy]

If RC has a history of bussing then him hammering Schadd wouldn't let him coast to end game. It would be 1v8 uphill battle.

[mattblackguy]

Lol cass why are you lying for RC?

[mattblackguy]

where did you hear this from though?

It was said by someone earlier in the game.

[mattblackguy]

It wasn't out of the blue. I said earlier that RC/Schadd were in my top 3 scum teams.

And there was no Eureka moment. Just the way Schadd/Shade interacted and the how RC has been acting since he joined the game.

[mattblackguy]

I don't want to lynch matt.

Well the lynch options for today are Me, RC, and Schadd. If I get lynched today then town lynches RC/Schadd tomorrow, and then the other on day 4.

No point in mislynching any other townies today.

[mattblackguy]

i agree with schadd_

i dont buy mbg being town and i dont see either of -grey- or rc being scum

id like to see explanations for those reads.

So you think I'm scum with schadd? lol Alright I'm down. Let's lynch him today. Rask tracks me/RC then we win tomorrow.


And Rask my other possible scum teams involve Giga, and looking through their ISO I'm just not feeling as strongly about them flipping scum anymore.

[mattblackguy]

Okay it'll be hard.

It really shouldn't be. Either we lynch scum today or I get lynched and you guys lynch scum tomorrow. (you, rask, giga, and grey are going to need to knock some sense into cass tomorrow though)

[mattblackguy]

@creature, @rask, @grey If I get lynched today will you lynch RC/Schadd tomorrow? Because I'm not worried as long as you guys will lynch a scum tomorrow. I just don't want you listening to RC/Schadd and following his Cass/Creature/Grey push tomorrow.

Because you know after I'm lynched he's going to push this for the final mislynch.

[mattblackguy]

Does it matter?

[mattblackguy]

IF mbg flips town (im pretty sure he wont) then rc and schadd_ are top of the list anyway with grey and gbT as runnersup based on his posts to date

Thank you I just didn't want my ML to be for nothing.

[mattblackguy]

My thoughts on it is no one will listen to me until I'm dead so kill me and then listen to me and win the game.

[mattblackguy]

Schadd, and RC are the scum though so you can just lynch them.

[mattblackguy]

idk, if we mislynch today it's very unlikely Rask will track a kill (if he doesn't die before).

Actually not really it's 50/50 depending on which one of them does the kill.

[mattblackguy]

If he was a real newbie it'd be a towntell but he has offsite experience so it isn't

Not sure where you got this from.

[mattblackguy]

Well the answer is a no. I've actually said this was my first game twice before in this game. I just didn't see why it was relevant which is why I asked.

[mattblackguy]

It's like how if you ask an a main account if they're an alt they'll 99% just say "no" but if you ask alts they'll half the time be like "does it matter?" and beat around the bush

Nah

[mattblackguy]

So who are you lynching tomorrow then?

[mattblackguy]

Alright just make sure it's scum.

[mattblackguy]

So wait I'm dying for nothing? Kind of a bummer

[mattblackguy]

you should definitely take a day or two and give your last thoughts

No it's alright no one will listen to me anyway.

[mattblackguy]

I don't see how selfhammering as town is good play though.

[mattblackguy]

I don't actually want a selfhammer

really Rask...

[mattblackguy]

I just said I wouldn't though.

[mattblackguy]

Yeah RC I know why a selfhammer is good as scum, but you seem to be ignoring that I'm town.

[mattblackguy]

I wanna know this too. What's town gana do after I flip town?

[mattblackguy]

I don't see town winning if he does.

GG I guess

[mattblackguy]

What? Not sure where you got that from "GG I guess".

[mattblackguy]

Anyway you guys won't get lynched tomorrow you'll just end up saying "mbg was an idiot" or something like that, and will probably lynch Creature then game's over.

[mattblackguy]

If creature was scum why wouldn't he want to lynch me today?

[mattblackguy]

I'm not scum though. I'm town

[mattblackguy]

You're talking about Creature bussing as scum, but that's not relevant here.

[mattblackguy]

wrong

because everyone else is scumreading you, its more useful to look at worlds where you are scum than not for us

you can say whatever you like, but talking bussing is valid until and unless we change our minds

If you guys are going to talk about who you think my possible scum partner is then you guys need to talk about the plan for tomorrow in MYLO when I eventually flip town. No reason to only talk about one.

[mattblackguy]

so creature bussing meta anyone?

lol

[mattblackguy]

Well I've officially lost all faith in GBT. Hopefully Rask, and Creature can carry the town tomorrow.

[mattblackguy]

My last words are to follow Creature tomorrow (but now saying this he's probably dying tonight) because he seems like the only one that knows what's going on.

[mattblackguy]

yes i meant tonight

why not? He seems like the only one that's likely to actually lynch scum tomorrow.

[mattblackguy]

this ^ makes me think that the whole thing is fake btw

well it's true. I have lost all faith in you.

[mattblackguy]

If they're scum partners, why would Creature tie himself to Matt right before Matt's flip?

Probably because I'm not scum, genius.

[mattblackguy]

you can accomplish this by hammering, just a thought

You shouldn't hammer people you believe to be town

[mattblackguy]

It's MYLO tomorow so don't think town would be quicklynching anyone.

[mattblackguy]

Creature, can you hold my hand before I am lynched?

[mattblackguy]

Definitely don't buy this "creature-mbg" scumteam though.

I'm not buying it either

[mattblackguy]

i just woke up

what timezone are you in? Seriously it's 10pm here.

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Creature

lol

[mattblackguy]

0 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes

what?

[mattblackguy]

Not if you copy the text and click the quote button. That's how I always quote.

[mattblackguy]

Yeah I see that now

[mattblackguy]

in my imo opinion)

in my in my opinion opinion?

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: matt

Oh. I was a Vanilla Townie if anyone was curious.

[mattblackguy]

Can I post yet?

[mattblackguy]

lol yeah sorry schadd , I was right on one of you at least

[mattblackguy]

I should have known it wasn't you and RC. I just thought you were with RC because you were sheeping him all of day 2 especially with the vote on Creature which didn't make sense to me.

[mattblackguy]

Town had all those experienced players and let us newbscum win.

I know right I had one whole month of experience!

[mattblackguy]

Well RC is more experienced then all 4 of them, and you're an alt too so

[mattblackguy]

And can't say Creature didn't try just nobody listened to him.

[mattblackguy]

For some odd reason everyone treated RC like confirmed town on day 3. Even Rask did which shocked me.

[mattblackguy]

Cass, u lied to me. I died for this town thinking "alright at least cass will push RC now"

[mattblackguy]

And there was no scum in the townblock :p

[mattblackguy]

Thanks for modding Aeronaut. Game was a great first experience to the game for me.

[mattblackguy]

And schadd yeah I know I didn't go about things the right way on day 2.

[mattblackguy]

Oh yeah aero can you post the mafia thread? It'd be interesting to see what it was like

[mattblackguy]

Well you said RC had a write up that was a good read so I wanna see that.

[mattblackguy]

Thanks for the carry, RC. You saved the day when I derped the NK... bit too be fair I stand by my logic that if you had been tracked to the kill that I wouldn't have survived LyLo.

How did you derp? I think you making the kill was the right choice regardless who was tracked.

[mattblackguy]

RC wanted to kill Creature but I told him I should because he has the skills to go deep.

If he had been tracked, we'd have lost for sure.

I don't see how this explains how you derped though. It was still the right call.

[mattblackguy]

Well we don't know who would have been lynched day 3 if RC would have preformed the kill.

[mattblackguy]

RC, Rask actually pinpointed you and grey being scum team on night 3. I was really surprised with the way he came out on day 4.

[mattblackguy]

i'm filled with desire both to quit mafia forever and play it until i die of retirement

Strangely that's how I feel too

[mattblackguy]

yeah lol I seen you were trying to trick me into self voting too :p