Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #44 (isolation #0) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:42 am

Post by culted »

VOTE: Road Kamelot
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Post Post #48 (isolation #1) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:49 am

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In post 47, Lemons wrote:Serious vote or RVS?
Guess
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Post Post #61 (isolation #2) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:32 pm

Post by culted »

I'm waiting for you to guess whether my RK vote is serious or not.

Did you miss my post?
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Post Post #63 (isolation #3) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:10 pm

Post by culted »

Wrong!
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Post Post #68 (isolation #4) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:41 pm

Post by culted »

In post 37, Road Kamelot wrote:actually why not
VOTE: karnos

Rbs response to charlouxs joke is eh
Charlouxs response is logical if tryhard

also karnos discussin setup play like it matters d1 is kinda lol
This is a scumpost.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #5) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Post by culted »

Lion I /get/ your karnos stuff but I'm not sure you're considering all angles.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #6) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by culted »

In post 59, Road Kamelot wrote:rb noah fence but this logic doesnt make any sense and youre missing that charlouxs initial scumread post was a blatant joke

even if youre scumreading him for his tone and responses, which is fine u do you, dont pretend this logic holds water
This also feels like she knows rb is town.

-Logic makes no sense - is that not why we scumread people? lol
-You somehow know he missed the joke and isn't scum misrepping
-Throws the biggest benefit of the doubt I've ever seen like, where did rb talk about tone at all
-Doesn't care if he keeps pushing him but doesn't think it holds water --- what

Like it feels too easy but I think it's just RK + someone who hasn't shown up yet.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #7) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:59 pm

Post by culted »

In post 70, GuiltyLion wrote:I'm not sold on scum!karnos but I don't like how his reaction in was to try to peg me for some kind of hypocrisy so I'm trying to get more there if/when he answers my questions

why is a scumpost?
He did say he 'thinks' he knows what you're getting at. He doesn't though, because he's probably town, get what I'm saying?

It's a tell. And it's also trying very hard to look like it's saying something but is only saying one thing.
It's the attention to consistency -- look again.
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Post Post #130 (isolation #8) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by culted »

In post 73, Road Kamelot wrote:1-I townread bad logic lol, who scumreads people based on bad logic anymore
2- i dunno if he missed the joke or not im saying it was missing from his analysis and how hes approaching the situation
3- Charloux's tone and responses are scummy thats why i said it, idk if thats what rb is picking up on or not
4- its early day 1 i dont care who pushes who
I scumread people for bad logic, it just depends on whether I feel like it could possibly come from a townmindset. Which ties into my second point where you saying rb's push makes no sense because he missed a 'blatant joke' seem to come from an informed perspective.

What's scummy about charloux's responses? Kid seems to definitely have a unique tone, I'll give you that one.

It's also not about who's pushing who. It's about how you approached rb's push.
In post 77, Charloux wrote:@Karnos: Did you put yourself deliberately in 35, or by accident?
How would an answer to this question give you a better read on karnos' alignment?
In post 81, GuiltyLion wrote:I don't think was proved to be inaccurate, the setup spec point doesn't matter nearly as much as your point about karnos defending himself against an accusation that hasn't happened. And everything else in is exactly my problem with what karnos did. I'm on the same wavelength as you and it looks to me like you're trying to sort people. That's enough for a D1 early TR
Why are you townreading a clear misrep/misunderstanding?

RK fluffed about how it's 'lol' for karnos to discuss setup already, accompanied by a vote in the same post it's forgivable for karnos to explain his thought process on why he talked about setup. also the ;))))))) is scummy af there tell me it isn't.


And let's take a step back here a moment. You're townreading RK for a similar wavelength on karnos doesn't make a lot of sense when you consider that she voted karnos initially for being lamist.

Your push on karnos was a touch more lateral than that (and implying you can get guiltied is as far from lamist as you can get), so it's naive of you to tr that for bringing up your literal points later on when they could have just as easily shadowed your thoughts as scum as well.

Where are you seeing sorting?
In post 98, BTD6_maker wrote:It's mostly RVS here.

Anyway, I basically looked at Karnos vs. GuiltyLion. I don't have much time at the moment but what I will say is that it is GuiltyLion that looks slightly worse from the interactions.
Why?
In post 121, GuiltyLion wrote:with respect to culted, I thought his case on RK was weak and made to misrep RK rather than coming from genuine intentions and thought process.
You didn't respond to my case, though. Yes him discrediting rb's push before it really went anywhere while also giving it more steam and at the same time looking a lot like he knew the push was coming from a townmindset despite having shaky reasoning was bad, but 37 is still a scumpost.
In post 123, karnos wrote:
In post 122, GuiltyLion wrote: if karnos is town he needs to stop trying to play bullshit WIFOM plans and needs to play openly and straighforwardly
So are you asking me to claim on day 1 when I'm not even at L-1? :roll:
No he's asking you to consider a world where he's town making this push on you, from what I've read.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #9) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:33 pm

Post by culted »

In post 133, Road Kamelot wrote:Exam today, whooooooooo ill get back to this soon

culted its def forgivable thatd be why i conceded the point like it was my b for sure. on karnos i mean

whats scummy abt ;;;; ) tho like thats reaching af
Right the point is lion's townreading you for it.

And you
would
focus on that part. : p
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Post Post #152 (isolation #10) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:35 pm

Post by culted »

In post 137, BTD6_maker wrote:Still mostly RVS.

Not much that is actually AI has come out of this. The strongest thing I have got is that with GL vs. Karnos, Karnos had less resistance to the wagon making me think scum were trying to resist GL's wagon. It's RVS so it's still incredibly weak and scum could be doing anything.

GuiltyLion comes out as nullscum from this. Everyone else seems fully null.

I know I am not posting much here but I am starting to feel that there is not much to say, as pretty much nothing is AI or worth commenting on at this stage.
Where's the resistance to guiltylion? Why do you think either of them are scum?
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Post Post #153 (isolation #11) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:41 pm

Post by culted »

In post 144, Charloux wrote:Assuming what he said was the truth, him saying "Lynch me if i'm guilty" deliberately is towny in my opinion. He also added that he regrets doing it, but i don't think he said that because of GL pushing him making me townread him a bit more.
Do you think it's wise to assume he's telling the truth when he could have easily used your question to manufacture a narrative where he said that on purpose?

Feel like you're throwing him an awfully large bone here.

Who do you think is scum?
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Post Post #154 (isolation #12) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:42 pm

Post by culted »

In post 145, Road Kamelot wrote:culted why are you so involved with how other players are forming reads
Because I'm town.
RK wrote:also in general just butting into a lot of conversations before they can resolve
Nice shade here.
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Post Post #156 (isolation #13) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:40 pm

Post by culted »

What about the naked vote was scummy?

If you think RK's scummy why not vote them?
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Post Post #158 (isolation #14) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:00 pm

Post by culted »

Naked votes aren't always scummy. Unless you're one of those robots who scumreads things irregardless of context then more power to ya.

That's also a terrible excuse to not vote a scumread.

VOTE: Charloux
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Post Post #160 (isolation #15) » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:25 pm

Post by culted »

Not really sure what to make of that last post.

Tempted to unvote because it feels like genuine frustration but at the same time I don't ever want that in lylo.

This website is making me seriously consider starting a blacklist.
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Post Post #226 (isolation #16) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:43 pm

Post by culted »

In post 174, Charloux wrote:Im not frustrated, im pissed off.
Here are my demands or ill become a pseudo lyncher/jester
1) rb takes this game seriously, uses his brain and does something that has value.
2)rk explaines her read on me and apologizes for spitting in my face when i asked her earlier.

@culted: why is me scumreading somebody who is gutvoting me scummy? Why is it scummy for me to be open with my thought process?
Sometimes it's you bud.

How could anyone think that you're scummy for scumreading someone. I wanted you to go into why you thought the naked vote was scummy not throw me some obvious bs about you wanting to hammer if their wagon got to L-1.

Then you get cheeky with me about asking filler questions like, why should I want to work with you if you're not gonna try and work with me and I ask again; if you have scumreads why aren't you voting for them?
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Post Post #227 (isolation #17) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:00 pm

Post by culted »

In post 199, GuiltyLion wrote:I kinda think Charloux is town tbh, like can someone who is scumreading the "fake" frustration break down for me why it's fake and not genuine?

karnos is still scum. It's frustrating that he's gonna just post one-liners like , ignore everything else going on, and you all are letting him off the hook for it.

culted's kinda making me paranoid too, like the stuff he's been saying as of my last post is pro-town and makes complete sense but it's really on the pulse about what's going on, like he's being extremely diligent to pay attention to what people are saying and he's really perceptive of the general threads of conversation. I want to push on this:
In post 158, culted wrote:Naked votes aren't always scummy. Unless you're one of those robots who scumreads things irregardless of context then more power to ya.

That's also a terrible excuse to not vote a scumread.

VOTE: Charloux
Why exactly do you think Charloux is scum? Is it something more than "not voting a scumread"?
That's a pretty boring angle to push. You can read the post you just quoted.

Also, can you show me some examples of RK sorting the game? Seems odd of you to miss my questions to you since it looks like you're paying pretty close attention to me.
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Post Post #228 (isolation #18) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:11 pm

Post by culted »

In post 203, GuiltyLion wrote:like are you both seriously asking me to just explain why I'm town? What use is that to either of you? How is that a helpful question?
In post 205, GuiltyLion wrote::roll: omg the semantics
How are you exactly reading BTD's push on you here? Hard to tell.
In post 216, GuiltyLion wrote:Also, this post in general is not at all town motivated. I will flip green. If karnos is town he is literally chaining mislynches. Only scum has incentive to be so bullheaded in their push that they wager their own lynch on it. If karnos were town I would expect him to be a little more uncertain. like I keep saying, I still don't understand why he thinks I'm scum, and he constantly refuses to answer.
That's a lot of words for an OMGUS read.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #19) » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:58 pm

Post by culted »

@mod
Should have declared v/la before now. I'll only be able to mebbe phone post sporadically until tuesday. : )

Not supporting an arcangel lynch.

Still down for charloux. Could also do GL/RK.
Pretty meh all around on lemons.
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Post Post #290 (isolation #20) » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:21 pm

Post by culted »

@mod

Would a deadline extension be asking too much?
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Post Post #332 (isolation #21) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:24 pm

Post by culted »

VOTE: karnos
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Post Post #334 (isolation #22) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:04 pm

Post by culted »

Could also lynch Charloux ^
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Post Post #337 (isolation #23) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:56 pm

Post by culted »

Lemons who do you think is scum?
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Post Post #340 (isolation #24) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:17 pm

Post by culted »

I'm not really reading into the GL kill all that much.

It did help my reads however.
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Post Post #342 (isolation #25) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:25 pm

Post by culted »

Iso'd him.
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Post Post #343 (isolation #26) » Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:30 pm

Post by culted »

tl;dr he isn't approaching reads from a mindset of sorting a two mafia game if that makes sense.

Take a look yourself and see if you see what I mean.
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Post Post #382 (isolation #27) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:29 pm

Post by culted »

In post 354, karnos wrote:
In post 343, culted wrote:tl;dr he isn't approaching reads from a mindset of sorting a two mafia game if that makes sense.

Take a look yourself and see if you see what I mean.
Are you saying that you approach the game differently if there are 2 scum, vs a game with 3 scum or 4 scum?
Yea.
In post 362, Lemons wrote:
In post 359, Charloux wrote: If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.
Why did you get quiet after posting your reads then?
And why stay quiet once you were no longer the target?
Inquisitive tone + not so inquisitive questions.
In post 366, Charloux wrote:Btd is constantly in VLA mode and still in RVS from what i can see. No point discussing him before january 5th
My scumread on RK was centered around her motivation and behaviour concerning her vote on me. Dark made 11 NAI posts so far. Surprised nobody asked him about though. For all i know, he just repeated the names of the 3 most scumread people at the time without any opinion.
This is basically poe more or less right now.
Btd has posted content what is your read on that?
What was scummy about the behavior of the vote on you?
And if dark's posts are all nai, then why does it feel like you think his reads are just the scummiest people?
In post 368, Darkshadow64540 wrote:My current reads:
BTD6_maker - v/la makes it a pain to read...
Lemons - currently town
Charloux - slight scum read
culted - I don't like you but not quite scum
karnos - SCUM
rb - TOWN
Why don't you like me?

Would you like to ask me a question? I like questions.
In post 372, rb wrote:I'm actually so bad at this game rn.

I wish I had better reads, I don't. RK/Charloux are my top scumreads atm, that's literally it and that doesn't even make a lot of sense as a scumteam necessarily.
What am I missing with karnos?
What's your read on lemon?
In post 373, karnos wrote:My feeling is that when the game gets like this, it's because scum is perfectly happy with the way the votes are going and they don't feel any need to play actively and try to steer wagons.

In other words: Charloux is probably town. OTOH, we do have over a week until deadline, so scum could just be slow-playing as well, and the holiday is probably a legitimate reason for many players to be absent.

I wanted to see lemons flip because I'm pretty confident the early wagon on me was scum pushed. Since scum were kind enough to flip GL for me that leaves lemons as the next obvious possibility. Then again, I could see scum strategically killing GL, thinking I would push lemons next- which would make lemons town. Maybe I just had a bunch of bad reads on day 1. But... I would expect at least one scum would be willing to push lemons along with me if that thinking is right, maybe the lack of willingness to jump on his wagon is because he *is* scum. Too much WIFOM.

Anyway, gotta get the game moving.

Blatant OMGUS- VOTE: culted Explain your push on me.
I think that you're scum.

Even your process on reads in this very post is just so processed. It's just like your whole thesis behind the scum kills and the entire universe revolves around your reads and you're moving on from a push because nobody is sheeping you without trying to sell your case anywhere and concluding taht scum would clearly vote with you seems a contrived move away.

Also you just blatantly omgus'd me and not in the town kinda way in the "lolz I'm scum and don't gaf" kinda way.
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Post Post #385 (isolation #28) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:55 pm

Post by culted »

By lurkers do you mean btd?
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Post Post #428 (isolation #29) » Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:49 am

Post by culted »

VOTE: Btd
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Post Post #439 (isolation #30) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:24 pm

Post by culted »

I find darkshadow difficult to process.
In post 387, karnos wrote:
In post 311, karnos wrote:
In post 310, Charloux wrote:We have 28 more hours till the deadline. Who are your other scumreads apart from GL?
Lemons is #2. Don't feel like revealing the other one just yet, because it's not too strong of a read and I feel pretty confident that least one of GL & LEmons is scum.
My other scum read at this point was culted.

RVS vote on RK, followed by a strong push on RK. I see this from scum a lot, since they aren't actually scum hunting they just pick someone to try to lynch, and more often than not it's just whoever they RVSed.

Later, culted switches to Charloux with very little reasoning in - apparently the reason for voting is that Charloux hasn't placed a vote on his scum read.

feels like scum adding some plausible deniability in case the wagon does hit a lynch "Tempted to unvote because it feels like genuine frustration but at the same time I don't ever want that in lylo." In other words, culted thinks charloux is town but wants to lynch him anyway.

Yet he doesn't unvote, and then goes VL/A for the rest of the game day. Classic scum strategy- start up a wagon/push, then go afk and when the flip comes up green you blame the player who hammered.

Culted came back to naked vote me in , but that was after I was already reading him as scum.
Yea I'm still down to policy lynch charloux. And I don't usually get down with that so that should say a lot.

That said he hasn't really looked all that scummy recently and he did start playing the game a bit more. I'll give him an iso after I get caught up here and let you guys know if I'm feeling a hammer or not. : 3
In post 389, Darkshadow64540 wrote:BTD6_maker - v/la makes it a pain to read, I hope like hell you get active real fast because this game is just painful
Lemons - currently town but you really need to get involved more
Charloux - that last post, I want to lynch you just for that... that said you are likely scum
culted - I'm liking you a bit more, you are now an even neutral, please keep it up
karnos - SCUM, and nothing you have said has changed that.
rb - Oh wow, please for the love of god drop the awful attempts at humor, you went from a town read to a mild scum read

I admit I haven't been very active myself, this is only my 2nd game and I'm not really sure how to lead a town with no active players...

I also reiterate my intent to vote Charloux but am only holding back to avoid a quick lynch as my vote puts them at L-1
You can't revitalize a game by yourself unfortunately and these reads are hard to engage at all.

What did you initially 'not like' about me I don't think you've answered this yet.
In post 395, rb wrote:VOTE: Charloux

yeah the more i think about it the more it makes zero sense for Charloux to be playing this super duper non-committal and giving zero-reads type of game if he's town.

i'm just being put off by ArcAngel flipping dogshit town on day 1
Charloux has given reads if I recall. What do you think of them?
In post 399, Darkshadow64540 wrote:But you do make a great point, VOTE: karnos
What was his point? Why does that make him scum?
In post 415, BTD6_maker wrote:I have read it in more detail, and it looks like Charloux actually seemed more Townish on a reread.
I get the sense that Charloux is showing genuine frustration. However, after the GL kill I seem a bit more inclined to scumread Karnos.
It seems plausible that Karnos suspected that GL would push him later after AA9 flipped. Karnos is mainly scummy after Day 1 (I suspected GL at first, but he flipped Town so Karnos being scum is more plausible).

VOTE: Karnos
This is a SCUMPOST. Particularly the bolded sentences together do not really 'flow' and make the thoughts seem fabricated.
In post 429, keyXrb wrote:i mean culted could be scum but woudl anyone lynch them? i can't find a good reason to call them scum but i can't find a good reason to call them town either and that's where nullscum usually is, someone talk to me abouty CuLTeDD ADAD d D
rb please don't be scum.
In post 433, BTD6_maker wrote:
In post 428, culted wrote:VOTE: Btd
Yet again a naked vote without reasoning. If you had any reasons for your vote, explaining them would be a good idea. If not, unvote.
Yea I don't think town!btd would be this hesitant and give me this much benefit of the doubt here especially considering his followup a few posts down.
In post 434, Charloux wrote:Finally got internet access! In the hospital... I just want to complain on my bad luck sorry.
In post 382, culted wrote:
In post 366, Charloux wrote:Btd is constantly in VLA mode and still in RVS from what i can see. No point discussing him before january 5th
My scumread on RK was centered around her motivation and behaviour concerning her vote on me. Dark made 11 NAI posts so far. Surprised nobody asked him about though. For all i know, he just repeated the names of the 3 most scumread people at the time without any opinion.
This is basically poe more or less right now.


1)Btd has posted content what is your read on that?
2)What was scummy about the behavior of the vote on you?
3)And if dark's posts are all nai, then why does it feel like you think his reads are just the scummiest people?
1)D1 he commented on AA and talked with GL a bit. Nothing really stood out as far as i'm concerned. Nothing on D2 apart from forcing Karnos to claim. Nothing in his posts are AI, everything can be easily faked as scum.
2)Didn't want to talk to me about the vote. I think this is reason enough to scumread her. Also looked opportunistic AF from MPOV.
3)He gave his emotional opinion, not reads. and "reads" with "" was meant to imply i was sarcastic. I can see scum motivation from his votes though. Forcing Karnos to claim and putting me to L-1 only after he had no more alternatives for pushing.

@Karnos: I though you hinted that you got a guilty on Lemons last night, but didnt want to claim >.<
Hope you're doing well sorry to hear you're in the hospital.

How do you find what interested btd day 1 (what little there was) considering the flips and recent things?
In post 435, BTD6_maker wrote:
In post 429, keyXrb wrote:i mean culted could be scum but woudl anyone lynch them? i can't find a good reason to call them scum but i can't find a good reason to call them town either and that's where nullscum usually is, someone talk to me abouty CuLTeDD ADAD d D
I would be willing to consider Culted but only if he refuses to give a good reason for his naked vote on me. The Karnos wagon seems to have stalled.
Like how it's only after rb says he isn't townreading me that btd puts on a pair of pants. karnos wagon stalling is because your scumfuck vote is on it. : 3

Also what town assumes that someone has this spectacular reason for voting them to this extent?
Seems more like scum who wants to piddle around and see if he can make me change my mind before omgusing tbh.

Gonna iso charloux now and PoE this hole.
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Post Post #440 (isolation #31) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:44 pm

Post by culted »

Okay so Charloux is town. Good to know.

Btd next.
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Post Post #441 (isolation #32) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:46 pm

Post by culted »

Btd flips scum 99/100 times.

Darkshadow is completely meh.

I almost wanna scumread rb because his push on charloux isn't even fair in spots like I just iso'd charloux and he's been giving good thoughts consistently so sring him for not providing reads sucks.

Let's check out lemons because if he's town the game's easy.
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Post Post #442 (isolation #33) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:53 pm

Post by culted »

Lemons/BTD_Maker.

Questions concerns are welcome.
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Post Post #445 (isolation #34) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:18 pm

Post by culted »

I wouldn't lynch you or karnos today.
I want some time to interact with darkshadow.

I'd super lynch btd and wouldn't mind a lynch on lemons.
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Post Post #446 (isolation #35) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:19 pm

Post by culted »

And as I said not feeling charloux at all.

If you're town there's scum taking adv of your tunnel there and it's probably lemons but it could be darkshadow.
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Post Post #450 (isolation #36) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:42 pm

Post by culted »

v/la is suspect now?

What's your read on btd shadow?
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Post Post #453 (isolation #37) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:20 pm

Post by culted »

In post 444, rb wrote:Alright I'll read Lemons and report back
So what's the word?
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Post Post #454 (isolation #38) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:20 pm

Post by culted »

I wanna see if you see what I see before I talk about the fruits anymore.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:21 pm

Post by culted »

In post 451, Darkshadow64540 wrote:His posts are severely lacking, I'm getting a feel that he's stalling.
Stalling as far as what?

Why do you think charloux is scum?
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Post Post #462 (isolation #40) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:07 pm

Post by culted »

In post 457, Darkshadow64540 wrote: was the first red flag, it feels like a game of chicken and is very anti-town, then the sudden lack of posting as soon as the heat was off him, finally the magical Internet connection.
Where have I heard this before....
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Post Post #463 (isolation #41) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:08 pm

Post by culted »

In post 458, Darkshadow64540 wrote:And by stalling I mean putting in just enough effort to appear active but is really just running out the clock.
Seems to be consistently lurking across the entire site so I wonder why you think he's stalling out this game specifically?
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Post Post #464 (isolation #42) » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:17 pm

Post by culted »

In post 459, Charloux wrote:His sole focus was on GL and AA. AA's focus is logical for both alignments. I thought GL was obvtown and a possible PR, so his scumlean on GL seemed irrational to me. The thing that interest me the most is his lack of opinion on my behavior. Dont know what to think of it though
I was thinking more that he immediately honed in and GL and karnos duking it out (which now we can safely assume was tvt) and it looks rather bad because he went of gl for the soul purpose of more people being apt to take Guilty's side in the argument.

That's scum for a couple different reasons. Trying to capitalize off of a tvt to start with, but weighing his options via which path would make him look less opportunistic. This is enhanced further by him not responding to my question(s) pertaining about why either of them were scummy and why he created that dichotomy in the first place.

And yes I sorta forgot about the AA wagon but it's kinda tough to gleam anything from that because just about everyone in the game was down to lynch that and they didn't post any content at all really.

This is like the second time I've asked you for a read on BTD and the second time where you've not had an opinion but could talk about stuff that he's done. Are you scum with him or are yougonna vote him already?
In post 460, Charloux wrote:
In post 457, Darkshadow64540 wrote: was the first red flag, it feels like a game of chicken and is very anti-town, then the sudden lack of posting as soon as the heat was off him, finally the magical Internet connection.
My turn to look at everything as scummy!
You only went with the flow so far, focusing on those who were generally scumread. Posting tons of one-liners to look like you are very active. Attacking the gameplay rather than posts because you got nothing concrete. Using psychological tricks to make me look more scummy(If you repeat the same thing over and over, the others are more likely to see it as the truth). Doesn't put me to L-1 until he has no other options available for a mislynch.
Here's a better question. You think that dark is the scum pushing you. Are scum more likely to repeatedly give stances and say you're scummy in everypost or say it once and then coast out the day?
In post 461, karnos wrote:I think BTD is a decent choice of lynch today, he hasn't been acting very towny IMO. Prefer to lynch BTD over Charloux. Lemons is also on my bad list, but I think BTD's recent play has proven even worse. Culted is looking better, especially if BTD flips red.

I hate how BTD suddenly came out from being lurky when he had a little pressure, and then vanished for a time after putting my at L-1 without acknowledging. I admit I have done similar in other games on day 1 RVS type situations, but this late into day 2 and the game demands more careful play.
Agreed with most of this here but the activity stuff. If BTD's content was at all town I probably wouldn't lynch him just for having a spotting presence.
I mean it was a bit beetlejuice but that tell is absolutely horrid.
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Post Post #469 (isolation #43) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:01 am

Post by culted »

Why vote me before giving me an opportunity to answer your question?
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Post Post #472 (isolation #44) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:46 am

Post by culted »

In post 466, Charloux wrote:Depends on the personality and the circumstances. Personality vise i think he is more likely to push rather than coast. And if Btd is scum he has one more reason to push the only other guy apart from his partner.
I actually wasn't implying BTD there he actually turned around his read on you to town if you hadn't noticed.
In post 471, karnos wrote:Of note: absolutely zero mention of lemons in his entire iso. I hate digging through other games but if someone else wants to do the work I'm curious if BTD's scum meta usually ignores his partners like that.
I'm not going to be doing any meta-diving but it's safe to call this a red flag but it doesn't just extend to lemons -- he really didn't have any opinion on myself or road kamelot either. And still doesn't really -- unless you count "I'm gonna vote you unless your explain your vote" as a stance.
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Post Post #475 (isolation #45) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:03 am

Post by culted »

The difference is he justified it with your frustration being genuine which is lame because you AtE'd a lot harder day 1.

I just think dark's push on you looks a lot more real than lemons' does (that was who I was referring to by the vote -> coast thing)
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Post Post #481 (isolation #46) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:08 am

Post by culted »

BTD6_maker wrote:Do you really think this can make someone obvscum?
Unnatural thoughts are a good scum indicator yea. You've seemed to miss a lot of the other things I said.
BTD6_maker wrote:Secondly, the reason I gave you the benefit of the doubt was that before seeing your reasoning, I was more convinced about Karnos than you. 435 made sense as a reply to keyXrb given my 433.
Why was karnos scummier than me at that particular time?
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Post Post #482 (isolation #47) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:10 am

Post by culted »

Question to everyone else: Do lemons and btd both make a push on me as the scumteam here or is one trying to pocket the other?
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Post Post #485 (isolation #48) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:54 am

Post by culted »

@Lemons
Your question assumes that I completely trust karnos' word. This isn't a luxury that I can have.

Do I feel like he's more likely to be town?
Did I, after taking the omgus goggles off, looking at his recent gamesolving and reevaluating the game realize that his wavelength is pretty similar to my own?

The answer to those questions is yes.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #49) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:08 am

Post by culted »

In post 486, Lemons wrote:What changed your reads so completely since ?
Reading the thread. Reading iso's. Changing my mind.
In post 486, Lemons wrote:And why are BTD's 'unnatural thoughts' scum (), but karnos' are now town()?
How did this question make any sense to you?

I'm not an infalliable robot scumhunter and I can have thought karnos had some very self-centered and omgusy thoughts at one point in the game and think that he's town now. WHile also thinking that Btdmaker's thoughts that happen to look unnatural may carry more scum-motive given........

New content, time going by, understanding that not everything exists in a vacuum.
In post 486, Lemons wrote:Your entire read on BTD seems to be based on his wording (), which is apparently a bad scum indicator for you since you used that for your read on karnos as well (), and his supposed capitalizing on what 'now we can safely assume was tvt' (), which, as you've just said, we do not have the luxury of doing.
My read on BTD is based on his entire presence in this game so far in.
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Post Post #488 (isolation #50) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:12 am

Post by culted »

If you want to have a conversation about btd let's not waste our time on his wording choices.
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Post Post #490 (isolation #51) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:19 am

Post by culted »

Are you reading my posts?
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Post Post #491 (isolation #52) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:22 am

Post by culted »

This is also a bit of an awkward conversation given he's L1 at the moment.

If you think this is a bad lynch I think we're in more of a "what the fuck has he done that's town stage" which means it's your turn to talk at least I'd think.
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Post Post #493 (isolation #53) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:42 am

Post by culted »

Alright.......
In post 391, BTD6_maker wrote:Anyway, the ArcAngel and GL flips need analysing. I need to see why people voted ArcAngel to a lynch etc.
After a quick read, Karnos and Charloux look most suspicious but I will go into greater depth to evaluate them.
Not only is this the most awkward post ever (reminding us that he's evaluating at every opportunity) but he was on the AA lynch.
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Post Post #494 (isolation #54) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:45 am

Post by culted »

Push on GL was always meh but looking back it's tunneled in both senses. Interacting with like nobody else and just doing a lot more of trying to convince gl that he's scum than anything. AA9 never caught his attention until deadline......

I'm serious what's town in here?
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Post Post #495 (isolation #55) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:48 am

Post by culted »

In post 235, Lemons wrote:I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting.
Have you ever been tunneled by rb?
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Post Post #496 (isolation #56) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:53 am

Post by culted »

In post 362, Lemons wrote:
In post 359, Charloux wrote: If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.
Why did you get quiet after posting your reads then? And why stay quiet once you were no longer the target?
What kind of answer were you expecting here?
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Post Post #497 (isolation #57) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:56 am

Post by culted »

In post 338, Lemons wrote:Charloux is still looking pretty scummy from day 1, especially since he seemed to get mysteriously quiet as soon as the wagon was off of him and on AA. When he was about to be lynched it seemed like he wanted to leave the town with as much info as possible, posting his read list and such, but as soon as the pressure was off he got quiet. Since AA flipped town, this seems sketchy.
Especially considering this is the entire basis behind your read it seems I'll also ask how his answer affected it.

This post though.... repeats the "he got quiet" line twice.
Why does AA flipping town make it sketchy?
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Post Post #499 (isolation #58) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:07 am

Post by culted »

Like he's subtly hinting at charloux being scum and AA was a town counterwagon to him.
Kinda scummy how he's finding ways to not explicitly come right out and say that -- hidden shade throwing.

But what's weirder all around is that wasn't AA a straight up policy lynch? Do scum and town not both enjoy lynching things that aren't playing the game somewhat like I don't get how you can even analyze if the push there was scum motivated or not.

The most I got from it is that BTD looks pretty bad for being so cognizant of the low hanging fruit despite not even interacting with a majority of the game but that's another story completely.
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Post Post #500 (isolation #59) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:20 am

Post by culted »

I suppose it's fair that the game was dragging so we're not always gonna be able to ask extremely thought provoking questions in every last post but it's also a continuous trend: see the semantics battle you recently tried to drag me into....

And I feel like your whole tunnel on charloux revolved around that- like I said and it stuck to the wall for whatever reason and I just don't find activity stuff like that to be all that compelling. Give me reasons why you don't feel like the things he's doing make sense from a town-mindset.
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Post Post #523 (isolation #60) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:13 am

Post by culted »

UNVOTE: - just as a precautionary measure.

If karnos is cop then the other PR shouldn't out. If he's gunsmith then the jailkeeper should claim and we lynch btd either way.
Failing both of those things happening I'd like to lynch lemons.

We have time.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #61) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:13 am

Post by culted »

@mod
Could we get a prod on rb?
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Post Post #533 (isolation #62) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:53 am

Post by culted »

Okay so karnos is scum and btd/rb are confirmed town.

VOTE: karnos
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Post Post #534 (isolation #63) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:54 am

Post by culted »

I'm literally the worst btw
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Post Post #538 (isolation #64) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:14 am

Post by culted »

Btd/rb doesn't make sense because it isn't lylo/mylo.

Godd try though!
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Post Post #543 (isolation #65) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:26 am

Post by culted »

Funny thing is I still kidna think the other scum is lemons.
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Post Post #545 (isolation #66) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:40 am

Post by culted »

No we need to lynch within you and rb because tomorrow it would still be a 1v1 otherwise.
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Post Post #551 (isolation #67) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:37 am

Post by culted »

That'd be good to know as well....
The fuck guys.
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Post Post #572 (isolation #68) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:08 am

Post by culted »

So there's 9 slots.
Two town power roles, a death miller and two scum.

AA9 - VT
GL - VT
BTD - Cop
RB - gunsmith
karnos - Goon


culted - VT or Death miller
Charloux - VT, Death miller or Goon
Lemons - VT, Death miller or Goon
DS - Death miller or Goon

Your pool last night was me/lemons/char/dark so 50/50 shot at getting an inno or a guilty.

That said darkshadow could very well just be scum. That hammer looked pretty fake and I don't understand why if you acknowledged that BTD hadn't given his result yet you'd be in a rush to vote karnos.

If dark's town then I'd say the last scum is probably lemons.
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Post Post #601 (isolation #69) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:58 am

Post by culted »

There's better odds of darkshadow being scum than everyone else so lynching elsewhere is strictly inferior.
VOTE: Darkshadow

L-1 again.
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Post Post #602 (isolation #70) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:59 am

Post by culted »

In post 586, rb wrote:With some flips and stuff it should be easier to find the last scum in VCA.
Not sure vca is the way to go here; karnos got pressured early making soft-bussing a lot more feasible.
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Post Post #603 (isolation #71) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:02 am

Post by culted »

In post 596, Lemons wrote:Culted definitely seems like the most scummy one here, including you. I really think you're the miller at this point. This could all be an act of course, but it feels genuine to me.
"culted is the scummiest one here"
"you're also scummy"
"I really think you're the death miller"
"But you could be faking it"
"But it feels genuine"

Woah
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Post Post #607 (isolation #72) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:28 am

Post by culted »

rb wrote:Lemons is town
So you think it's just dark then?
Because I hope it's just dark too.

But lemons doesn't seem worried about that.
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Post Post #608 (isolation #73) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:28 am

Post by culted »

In post 605, rb wrote:I don't fancy a Lemons+Charloux+Culted Lylo
You're trolling
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Post Post #610 (isolation #74) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:38 am

Post by culted »

I mean if you're all heart-set on throwing this then go ahead and lynch me- enjoy your headache of having a guilty alive in 3 person.
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Post Post #611 (isolation #75) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:45 am

Post by culted »

Not even sure what I've done that's scummy.

I think dark's hammer is pretty close to a scumclaim.
I think the fact that he had two scumreads (karnos, charloux) the whole game and never deviates from that to be scum indicative.
I think that his interactions with karnos aren't great.
RK voting karnos first thing gives me pause but it is a possible buss considering she moved on to charloux first opportunity.
His play today hasn't really been great either- his read and vote on me is opportunistic seeing as I was the only one in the pool he thought was town,, just makes little sense to bend so easily but it's possible he respects rb so meh.
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Post Post #612 (isolation #76) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:47 am

Post by culted »

And as for lemons;
In post 486, Lemons wrote:And why are BTD's 'unnatural thoughts' scum (415), but karnos' are now town(373)?
This question still doesn't make any sense.
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Post Post #615 (isolation #77) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:18 am

Post by culted »

I gave more than one reason for thinking btd was scum. Just because they weren't all in one place doesn't mean you get to misrep me it means you need to look at all of my posts and followups and understand where things are implied sometimes and not outright stated. This is called not nitpicking and actually trying to understand a person's trajectory.

It doesn't make sense to compare the analysis of two different thoughts. I've already explained this to you.

How was my logic flawed?

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Post Post #618 (isolation #78) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:22 am

Post by culted »

In post 614, Darkshadow64540 wrote:My vote on you is simple, rb thinks you are scum, therfore I am giving him the option if he wants it.
You can sheep but also put some effort into helping us solve this ya know
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Post Post #620 (isolation #79) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:22 am

Post by culted »

In post 619, Lemons wrote:At the time it was all the evidence you'd given.
My suspicion of your read on BTD was primarily due to your heal turn directly after karnos' baseless PR claim, which turned out to be false. I still find this pretty sketchy, and in hindsight it looks like you were looking for a way to stop bussing your partner.
No it wasn't.

And that's what I'm saying: why did my read on one player make you suspicious of my read on another player. Keep repeating the same rhetoric all you like it's not gonna suddenly make it make any more sense.

Did most if not everyone respond well to karnos' claim?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #80) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:50 am

Post by culted »

Like just to thoroughly explain this.

His question is essentially "Why do you think Player A's unnatural thoughts are scum here and Player B's unnatural thoughts are town here"

If lemons is town then he must have found some correlation here. Giving the benefit of the doubt let's say that he found my methods (analyzing thought processes) to be what initially made him link my reads on karnos and btd together.

That doesn't make any sense because
1) No two thoughts are the same- and my reasons and analysis of btd and karnos' particular thoughts were vastly different
2) This is a very common way to scumhunt
3) Reads can change
4) Is contrived because I gave more reasons for scumreading btd than just saying I thought his thoughts were wonky in one post. And he continues to push this point after having all of this explained to him multiple times.

I believe I actually called his entire post scummy. Karnos vote was opportunistic, wasn't engaging with the game at all, mooshing his charloux read into his karnos read looks fabricated and vetted. And I also mentioned (within that same post that lemons is caught up on) that I didn't like his hesitance to vote me and found it suspect that he only implied he scumread me after rb said that he wasn't townreading me. Trust the scum motive is clear with that one. And then continued to followup my push later on a bit as well if I recall.
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Post Post #647 (isolation #81) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:38 am

Post by culted »

In post 630, rb wrote:RK was your top scumread, but you then jumped onto the Charloux wagon with them - y u do that?
You seemed confident so I took the opportunity to explore charloux myself. It was early and I wasn't really worried about preflips; could've been wrong on RK, scum buss sometimes.
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Post Post #648 (isolation #82) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:39 am

Post by culted »

In post 642, Lemons wrote:I jumped on Culted because I think you are a mislynch. I'm pretty convinced you're the miller at this point, which makes Culted my top pick for scum, and Charloux my second by POI.
As for activity, in your prior game I had a single day to stay active in, plus life stuff has gotten in the way.
Why do you think Dark is town?
What's your read on charloux's play?
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Post Post #651 (isolation #83) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:41 pm

Post by culted »

In post 649, Lemons wrote:There's no way Dark's play today is scum. He's completely accepted his lynch and is actively trying to help us find the last scum. Even when I gave him an out by supporting another lynch, he dropped the idea instantly when rb told him to, and he's gone back to accepting his lynch.
If this were an act, he'd have to be relying completely on us changing our minds on a sure lynch without any pushing on his part. That's suicide, especially with how rb is leading things. If he were scum he'd be trying to defend himself at least somewhat.
I dunno man. You didn't get scumvibes off of his karnos hammer at all? You don't think Dark's smart enough to know that flailing and trying to lynch elsewhere when there's a guilty on him would be just as likely to end in his lynch?
Lemon wrote:Charloux is hard to read right now. He's been a bit quiet and he's changing his reads a lot. His play in general this game has been mostly town from what I can see. Still, he's less town then Dark is so he'd be my second pick.
You've been pushing Charloux as scum the majority of the game, though, if I recall.
What does "quiet" mean in this context? Not very loud or just not posting frequently?

Are you saying that him changing his reads a lot is making him harder to read, or that it's scummy?
In either case which read changes are you referring to and why do/don't they make sense to you?
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Post Post #664 (isolation #84) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:35 pm

Post by culted »

Game's stalled.
In post 597, Darkshadow64540 wrote:I know I should be the lynch to day but just in case you decide otherwise.
VOTE: Culted
In post 598, Lemons wrote:VOTE: Culted
Don't want Culted to hammer ds, and this honestly seems like the better lynch.
Scum is one of these guys ^

But just to be sure: Charloux why am I obvtown?
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Post Post #665 (isolation #85) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:56 pm

Post by culted »

In post 657, Lemons wrote:Looks to me like he forgot to refresh the page before posting and didn't see rb's vote.
Acting normally is one thing, but encouraging a PR to give their results when everyone else had forgotten about it is another thing entirely. There's no reason for scum to be the first to point that out. If he hadn't, it's likely we wouldn't even be discussing it right now.
Or he's scum and quick-hammered and pretended not to see rb's vote?

Why was he in a rush to vote karnos when he says himself that btd didn't give a result yet?

Even giving the benefit of the doubt that he didn't see rb's vote; he said "whoops thought he was L-2". Why's he putting scum at L-1 when we're still trying to figure shit out?
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Post Post #667 (isolation #86) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 pm

Post by culted »

Yes dark, I understand that's your story.

But.

There's being forgiving.

And then there's absolving someone.
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Post Post #672 (isolation #87) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:38 pm

Post by culted »

In post 670, Darkshadow64540 wrote:I am not asking for forgiveness or absolution, I am accepting my fate and STILL trying to help town.
Not my point.

I'm saying that it's within the realm of possibility that he just -knows- you're town.

Both you and your predecessor were scumfucks by play. You less so but still mostly meh or scum.
He's tring you for not trying to change anyone's minds when he sheeped your vote on me earlier.
Somehow knows that you... didn't refresh the page? I mean that's throwing you a pretty large bone considering there's preview-edits.

There's also a fucking cop guilty on you.

So yea while it may seem like I'm ramming you into the ground it's also me attempting to understand if Lemons is coming at this from an informed perspective.
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Post Post #687 (isolation #88) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Post by culted »

In post 683, Charloux wrote:
In post 664, culted wrote: But just to be sure: Charloux why am I obvtown?
More like a townread rather than obvtown. Lack of content i find scummy, being a townleader and making sound arguments.
I've posted quite a bit of content, though.
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Post Post #688 (isolation #89) » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:26 pm

Post by culted »

rb's right rereading 5-15 was the clarity I needed. Day 2 was also good to refresh on.

Lemons is scum.
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Post Post #699 (isolation #90) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:15 am

Post by culted »

This is great because I started to waffle my reads on both of you during the night : 3
VOTE: Lemons
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Post Post #700 (isolation #91) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:42 am

Post by culted »

In post 697, Charloux wrote:Kinda wanted some feedback from RB.
@Culted: 1) Why would scum!Lemons kill him partner for no good reason?
And if you're town it should be clear why Lemon's hammer there was scum-motivated. He didn't think I would change my mind on him and didn't wanna give rb time to explain why he townread me.

Where exactly did lemons 'kill karnos for no good reason?'
Everyone in the game save btd responded well to karnos' claim. Which was a derp on all our parts in hindsight because the half-claim was bad.

I guess the question you need to ask yourself is this: are scum more likely to run-up their scum buddy to a halfclaim and then opaquely change gears onto someone else without giving a thought process as to why? Or thread dodge during the runup and hold the stance of 'wouldn't lynch today' but I wanna lynch this person who 'knows' he's town (think for a minute why that makes no sense, especially for someone who -for whatever reason- had a lock townread on btd)

Which if you knew me at all is strictly a towntell. I change my mind on shit more than anyone I know and as scum I keep my shit straight because:

1) Inconsistency gets you scumread. My scumgame is weak but not to the point where I just haphazardly change gears and leave myself open to questioning- quite teh opposite I overexplain myself for fear
of
being questioned.

2) Once karnos is locked into a claim he's as good as dead anyway and I wouldn't piss away all the towncred I'd have gotten for pushing him in the first place just to treat him as town for -maybe- the rest of that day.

3) You were at L1 when the karnos wagon dissolved- why would I as scum decide to make a push on btd when if lemons is town, the entire wagon on you was town driven and you had already claimed not a PR. Your lynch was the path to letting karnos live another day. Running up Btd (who, in hindsight was the only person who wasn't satiated by karnos' claim) would be dumb because a claim from him makes it far more likely karnos eats rope. Something that I'd obviously be more cognizant of if scum.

What actually happened was that btd looked -a lot- less town than karnos, couple that with them not making a lot of sense as partners and rb being pretty solid on him for town; I changed my mind because I suck and constantly doubt myself.

And I'd argue that I've made more than a few mistakes this game. =p
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Post Post #701 (isolation #92) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 12:59 am

Post by culted »

In post 427, mykonian wrote:
votecount


Charloux (3): Lemons, rb, Darkshadow64540
Karnos (2): culted, BTD6_maker
BTD6_maker (1): karnos

not voting (1): Charloux

6 days remaining
Charloux if lemons is town why didn't you get lynched?
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Post Post #702 (isolation #93) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:22 am

Post by culted »

It's plain to see why karnos wasn't interested in the wagon on you- lemons was already pushing it so he didn't need to involve himself (not to mention rb was pushing you hard enough for 3 people) and took the opportunity to

1- distance a bit from the scumreads on you (points to lemons- who he was already distancing from since early in the game)
2- get towncred off your flip
3- as well as look like he was scum with you in the event your lynch doesn't go through
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Post Post #703 (isolation #94) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:02 am

Post by culted »

Here's a side by side comparison of karnos' mentions of me and lemons.

Lemons:
Spoiler:
In post 125, karnos wrote:
In post 120, Lemons wrote:I'm willing to admit that my vote on karnos may have been a kneejerk reaction to something due to my limited experience. Now that I have more time/less stress, I'm going to reread the thread later and see if my opinions change at all.
I would like to hear about the read on culted as well. Is it only because he disagreed with you about karnos?
you could always redeem yourself by voting for Guilty Lion.
In post 234, karnos wrote:Someone awhile back asked me who is scum if GL isn't.

Lemons. This thing of latching onto a bad logic push and then questioning it (but keeping his vote up), followed up by lurking and barely contributing... stinks of scum.

I don't believe both scum would push together so blatantly, but if guilty isn't guilty, my money is on lemons.
In post 311, karnos wrote:
In post 310, Charloux wrote:We have 28 more hours till the deadline. Who are your other scumreads apart from GL?
Lemons is #2. Don't feel like revealing the other one just yet, because it's not too strong of a read and I feel pretty confident that least one of GL & LEmons is scum.
In post 330, karnos wrote:
Lemons
Obvious scum killing GL to put more pressure on me.
In post 331, karnos wrote:VOTE: lemons
In post 355, karnos wrote:
In post 350, Charloux wrote:When a moment comes where a guy like me has the most common sense, it can only mean that town lost.
What do you think of lemons? Am I reading him wrong?
In post 386, karnos wrote:culted: maybe I was acting like the universe revolves around my reads because nobody else was posting at the time.

I'm sorry if you think I'm scum because of abandoning a push, but that is how the game works. I can't lynch someone by myself. I still think lemons might be scum, but I know that even if I am right about that, there is another scum out there somewhere, so I am not as concerned as you about moving on.

And for the record, it wasn't even OMGUS, I just said that because I wanted to see what you would say.
In post 417, karnos wrote:Shit, I lied. Lemons isn't on my wagon, and he might well quick lynch me if I am correct about him being scum. Please unvote before you allow that to happen, I am a town PR, consider this a soft claim.
In post 425, karnos wrote:Charloux is the least scummy of those 3 IMO. Then again, I've been wrong so far this game.

I'd be happy to go back to lemons if anyone else is willing to push that wagon.

Needless to say, if we have a jk please keep me in mind.
In post 461, karnos wrote:I think BTD is a decent choice of lynch today, he hasn't been acting very towny IMO. Prefer to lynch BTD over Charloux. Lemons is also on my bad list, but I think BTD's recent play has proven even worse. Culted is looking better, especially if BTD flips red.

I hate how BTD suddenly came out from being lurky when he had a little pressure, and then vanished for a time after putting my at L-1 without acknowledging. I admit I have done similar in other games on day 1 RVS type situations, but this late into day 2 and the game demands more careful play.
In post 470, karnos wrote:Can't see lemons & culted being scum together after the last exchange.

Need to re-read a bit and see if BTD & lemons is a viable scum team.
In post 471, karnos wrote:Well that actually took no time at all, both lemons and BTD have been relatively low content posters this game.

Lemons pushes to lynch arcangel over BTD when both are being called out for being lurky. Lemons repeatedly mentions BTD's lack of posting but never places a vote or seriously pushes, he always seems to be willing to give BTD more time. Most recently, with a BTD wagon gaining some traction, lemons tries to redirect again to culted.

BTD posts very little during day 1, just an RVS vote and...
In post 98, BTD6_maker wrote:It's mostly RVS here.
In post 137, BTD6_maker wrote:Still mostly RVS.
In post 142, BTD6_maker wrote:We're still at some phase in the game that is at least very similar to RVS, or the next step after it
Followed by chiming in on the GL vs karnos arguments, saying he thinks I am more likely town (but reverses that read after Lion flips green day 2). He also seems willing to lynch Charloux, but then he goes on V/LA before ever moving his vote- seems BTD was content to let the day end in a no lynch if I didn't hammer.

Day 2 he has voted me and now moved to culted. With very little original content. One thing that pinged me is he posted less than an hour after I voted him, but overall seems to be very low activity. To me that indicates he is reading and watching the thread, he just isn't posting unless he feels it absolutely necessary. Or possibly he just got phenomenally lucky and happened to have time to post right after I put some pressure on him.

Of note: absolutely zero mention of lemons in his entire iso. I hate digging through other games but if someone else wants to do the work I'm curious if BTD's scum meta usually ignores his partners like that.
In post 483, karnos wrote:@BTD: what is your read on lemons?
In post 544, karnos wrote:
In post 543, culted wrote:Funny thing is I still kidna think the other scum is lemons.
Would you go for a lemons lynch today?

Cop claims can be 100% verified by leaving the cops alive for a night and checking results tomorrow.


Notice how the only
talking to
lemons that's done in all these quotes is the very first quote.
And it isn't even trying to engage in a dialogue at all.
It's trying to give lemons another option to push besides himself.

Second quote scumreads Lemons for lurking. Which is odd considering Arcangel and BTD were in the game at that point.

#311 is Charloux not being aware of what karnos' reads are (if I needed another reason to think Charloux was town over lemons at this point).

#330 doesn't make any sense; why does lemons have more reason to frame him than anyone else at that point.

#355 Looks good for charloux once again. Trying to make him look bad depending on the answer, distance from lemons a bit, and also enter into a conversation that may end up giving him a reason to turn around his read. Considering just about nobody was interested in lynching lemons at that point that seems like what he was most likely going for there.

#386 Is more of an -actual- interaction with me. But I included this one just for how awkwardly he held onto his lemons read and decided to reiterate it whenever he could unprompted.

#417 Continues the same trend of scumreading lemons for things that don't even make sense; lemons hammering him at that point would have been a scumclaim.

#425 Trying to look like he's buddies/buddy up with charloux here.
Only wants to wagon lemons if others are interested


#461- He flips his read around on me after he realizes I'm terrible but notice how he addendums it with "if btd flips scum". My only value to him at that point was lynching btd. If this were scum turning around on a scumbuddy it's more likely that he'd leave the end part off.

#470 Can't see lemons and I being scum together based on our exchange. Doesn't really make sense because our interaction hadn't even come to fruition. This line was down specifically for wifom.
Takes the opportunity to feed into my confirmation bias on btd and paint lemons and btd as scum together based on btd not interacting much with lemons. Strange considering that btd didn't interact with a lot of people.

#544 Is the cherry on top. Just trying to squeeze as much as he can out of all the bad distancing he did. Karnos was basically out'd scum at this point if you don't recall so if lemons were town there's not really any motivation to remind us all that he had such an awkwardly flat and un-moving read on him the entire game.

Me:
Spoiler:
In post 354, karnos wrote:
In post 343, culted wrote:tl;dr he isn't approaching reads from a mindset of sorting a two mafia game if that makes sense.

Take a look yourself and see if you see what I mean.
Are you saying that you approach the game differently if there are 2 scum, vs a game with 3 scum or 4 scum? I'm not sure I see the point in that. I look for scummy behavior and try to get it lynched. Sometimes you have 4 scummy players in a game with 3 scum, but if you lynch all 4 of them you will probably get the scum so it doesn't matter if the numbers don't line up perfectly.
In post 373, karnos wrote:My feeling is that when the game gets like this, it's because scum is perfectly happy with the way the votes are going and they don't feel any need to play actively and try to steer wagons.

In other words: Charloux is probably town. OTOH, we do have over a week until deadline, so scum could just be slow-playing as well, and the holiday is probably a legitimate reason for many players to be absent.

I wanted to see lemons flip because I'm pretty confident the early wagon on me was scum pushed. Since scum were kind enough to flip GL for me that leaves lemons as the next obvious possibility. Then again, I could see scum strategically killing GL, thinking I would push lemons next- which would make lemons town. Maybe I just had a bunch of bad reads on day 1. But... I would expect at least one scum would be willing to push lemons along with me if that thinking is right, maybe the lack of willingness to jump on his wagon is because he *is* scum. Too much WIFOM.

Anyway, gotta get the game moving.

Blatant OMGUS- VOTE: culted Explain your push on me.
In post 386, karnos wrote:culted: maybe I was acting like the universe revolves around my reads because nobody else was posting at the time.

I'm sorry if you think I'm scum because of abandoning a push, but that is how the game works. I can't lynch someone by myself. I still think lemons might be scum, but I know that even if I am right about that, there is another scum out there somewhere, so I am not as concerned as you about moving on.

And for the record, it wasn't even OMGUS, I just said that because I wanted to see what you would say.
In post 387, karnos wrote:
In post 311, karnos wrote:
In post 310, Charloux wrote:We have 28 more hours till the deadline. Who are your other scumreads apart from GL?
Lemons is #2. Don't feel like revealing the other one just yet, because it's not too strong of a read and I feel pretty confident that least one of GL & LEmons is scum.
My other scum read at this point was culted.

RVS vote on RK, followed by a strong push on RK. I see this from scum a lot, since they aren't actually scum hunting they just pick someone to try to lynch, and more often than not it's just whoever they RVSed.

Later, culted switches to Charloux with very little reasoning in - apparently the reason for voting is that Charloux hasn't placed a vote on his scum read.

feels like scum adding some plausible deniability in case the wagon does hit a lynch "Tempted to unvote because it feels like genuine frustration but at the same time I don't ever want that in lylo." In other words, culted thinks charloux is town but wants to lynch him anyway.

Yet he doesn't unvote, and then goes VL/A for the rest of the game day. Classic scum strategy- start up a wagon/push, then go afk and when the flip comes up green you blame the player who hammered.

Culted came back to naked vote me in , but that was after I was already reading him as scum.
In post 397, karnos wrote:
In post 389, Darkshadow64540 wrote:BTD6_maker - v/la makes it a pain to read, I hope like hell you get active real fast because this game is just painful
Lemons - currently town but you really need to get involved more
Charloux - that last post, I want to lynch you just for that... that said you are likely scum
culted - I'm liking you a bit more, you are now an even neutral, please keep it up
karnos - SCUM, and nothing you have said has changed that.
rb - Oh wow, please for the love of god drop the awful attempts at humor, you went from a town read to a mild scum read

I admit I haven't been very active myself, this is only my 2nd game and I'm not really sure how to lead a town with no active players...

I also reiterate my intent to vote Charloux but am only holding back to avoid a quick lynch as my vote puts them at L-1
I find it interesting that culted was scum reading your slot all day day 1, and has seemingly turned around completely given your replace. I also find it interesting that you were afraid to put your scum read at L-1. I can sometimes accept that sort of behavior early day 1, when people are recklessly voting in RVS, but the game is freaking stagnant now and there is no reason to hold back voting.

Hell, if you think I am scum and you are afraid to put Charloux at L-1, why didn't you vote me? Again I am reminded of culted, in day 1 he was voting charloux due to throwing shade but not voting... yet that is exactly what you are doing now and he has seemingly completely reversed on his read of your slot. Culted honestly isn't discussing his reads at all, which is another issue, but I am taking his lack of discussion to mean he thinks you are town.

With rb's vote Charloux is now L-1, so you can be off the hook for that now, but I still question why you were so shy to vote someone earlier.


Decided to trim the overlap (where he mentions both of us) the best that I could.

Notice how he actually attempts to interact with me, though? I mean the first quote where I called him out for not sorting the game from a town-mindset doesn't really open the door for much of a conversation but it's at least attempting to get me to rethink (explaining that he allegedly just looks for scummy behavior and doesn't weight the amount of scum or interactions or anything like that--which is bullshit but the points still there).

Second quote is clearly him looking for an excuse to to stop bussing--what better way to do that than to omgus culted who's making a push on him that he doesn't understand.
He asks me to explain the push more eloquently. Again this opens up the door for a dialogue to occur.

What's more, and as I've touched on previously when it happened, the move away is contrived because nobody sheeping you isn't a sign of anything but your push lacking steam.
Which points to a buss. He never tried to sell his case on lemons to anyone and just moved on without even trying to.

#386 Basically appeasing me here. And the follow-up on the push in #387 is SO much more justified than his read on lemons ever was.
He was actually down to lynch me. Wasn't ever really down to lynch lemons.

And that point is brought further to light by #397 where he sees dark coming around to a townread on me and explicitly tries to sell dark on me being scum.


Night and Day difference here, Char.
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Post Post #704 (isolation #95) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:22 am

Post by culted »

Anyway after that I'm pretty confident there won't be a quickhammer.
Please ASK ME SOME FUCKING QUESTIONS CHARLOUX! GOOD ONES THIS TIME!

AND IF YOU'RE STILL NOT CONVINCED I WILL DESTROY LEMONS' ISO WHEN I GET HOME.
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Post Post #714 (isolation #96) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:17 am

Post by culted »

Charloux!

YES!
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Post Post #715 (isolation #97) » Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:23 am

Post by culted »

Myko is right town stumbled into a win here.

Lemons very good effort man. Your scumgame is solid like there were moments I was taken aback at just how bad you made look at that never happens when I'm town.

Sorry for the misread... Basically everyone LOL.
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