Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

[Hawk]

Hi everybody!! Sup Uzi, Alishe, Grey. Speaking of grey.

I'M NEVER TRUSTING YOU AGAIN AFTER THAT LAST GAME!!!

VOTE: grey

[Hawk]

This seems to be Alisae's MO though. Gotta do some digging buthe the few games I've been in with Alisae it almost always feels like he starts like this.

I think what's more funny about Uzi's comment is while Grey played well IMO that game I let myself get fooled because of impatience.

[Hawk]

I'll do some more digging. I'm fairly new so my observation is this is the third game I've started playing with Alisae where he starts off with a fast play for either reactions or attention draw. Only one of then is finished for Alisae none of them are complete.

I'll dig some more in to see if I can find some completed town games where he does this.

[Hawk]

Well my Vote is RVS but I don't have a particular reason to unvote so.

Alisae seems townie to me. Same for boring and Fancypants.

[Hawk]

Hawk why?

Mostly Gut for you. You're aciting in a similar fashion as to how you have before in games.

Fancypants I liked his post 20 and post 89. Reading that as not pro-town says he possibly wasn't super aware of the player list or at least didn't want to draw attention to that reaction test obviously like Uzi did. Not sure if this means he's town or not but at least he's not reacting too quickly.

89 I like cause taking a stab at early reads when RVS is kinda naturally winding down is good for generating discussion even with soft reads. This is town to me.

Boring in general seems just town to me. Most of his posts have meaning or general purpose to them and aren't relatively fluff so there's that.


As to Alisae's Meta I'm not sure I can share any of it since he as far as I could find (I didn't dig super super hard] only one completed game from start to finish. He has a couple he subbed in for but only one completed where he was apart of RVS.

I can tell people if you want to interpret something from his recent ongoing games he plays RVS pretty much like he is. Reaction tests. Early votes. Responding with similar questioning like this one. Take it for what it's worth since we can't check his alignment for any of that playstyle.

Empking I don't really have a read on.

I don't disagree with UZI but I do not see the harm in letting that reaction test play out a little longer. I'd hope most masons aren't so gung-ho to hang mafia that they would go screaming he's not a Mason!

Fritz seems to genuinely trying to ScumHunt so I do like that.

And that's all I really got right now

[Hawk]

Still reading and making some evaluations but I'll chime in on the Alisae V Grey throwdown 2017.

UNVOTE: Grey

Not voting Alisae just yet as I don't particularly feel he is scummyour. I do agree that his argument for Grey being scum is weak. Meta and aggression are NAI. Each game is different. Now if you felt so inclined as to say you're reading Grey this game as scum because his posts feel forced or he's playing overly cautious and you scumread that then fine. But Grey still has good defense against that. We have Masons. Being too aggressive and drawing the attention of Masons as town can lead to easy misLynches if the Mafia are coordinated. IMO.

[Hawk]

Being too aggressive and drawing the attention of Masons as town can lead to easy misLynches if the Mafia are coordinated.

It's not even that. Mafia coordinating to Lynch Masons will simply out themselves.

The danger in exposing the Masons is that it allows the Mafia to target them for the NK.

As long as they have to shoot in the dark, it gives town better odds to have conftown later in the game.

That's not what I meant Grey. I meant playing aggressively as a VT if you get the eye of the masons on you you might quickly find yourself under pressure from both parties. If masons vote you coordinated mafia might mislynch you and have a good idea depending on how discussion went towards shooting into the Mason camp.

This is dangerous.

Ex.

Player A is VT. He draws attention to himself and gets scumread in correctly. Masons vote together (assuming they do. I haven't played with Masons in a while but I was taught as a rule of thumb it's a good idea to vote together since you're confirmed townies) And now you have three Mason votes possibly as we move forward into the day.

If masons vote together and vote towards a mislynch then that's 3 town votes on a possible bad wagon meaning that it's very easy for coordinated scum to get a mislynch on VT and then get a night phase.

Tell me if I'm wrong in understanding the mechanics and optimal lines in this setup.

Still I get where you're coming from and I agree I just don't think Alisae is scum as of yet.

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

Meh.

Just meh?

I don't think UZI is bending over backwards but I'm noting you said that.

VOTE: Snowman

I don't think Alisae is that hard to read nor do I think that the ISO takes that long to skim. Either unconcerned town or coasting scum either way not the best.

[Hawk]

@mod, you forgot about me entirely on the VC

Don't worry I'm sure it's not because your posts are boring

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

Meh.

Just meh?

I don't think UZI is bending over backwards but I'm noting you said that.

VOTE: Snowman

I don't think Alisae is that hard to read nor do I think that the ISO takes that long to skim. Either unconcerned town or coasting scum either way not the best.

What color is your t-shirt?

If it's anything besides the word that rhymes with shmorange, it's a scum claim.

Does Shmorange rhyme with Shmorange?

cause my shirt is Shmorange in color.

[Hawk]

Join me on King.

Sure, Empking hasn't done anything to leave the bottom half of my nebulous read cloud yet.

VOTE: Empking

Why are we voting him in particular? I saw you mention the jump on Alisae and shade-throwing. It's kind of meh. I suppose those are things that happened, but surely, other people have been scummy too. Who's your second highest read?

I wanna sheep this shit as well. I also don't particularly townread them for fosing people who aren't voting when we're less then 10 pages in. Seems like kinda a shit reason to fos a group of people to me.
VOTE: Empking

Don't you scum lean him for that then?

Honestly I still don't have the best reads but I wouldn't mind hearing more from Emp.

VOTE: EmpKing

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

Meh.

Just meh?

I don't think UZI is bending over backwards but I'm noting you said that.

VOTE: Snowman

I don't think Alisae is that hard to read nor do I think that the ISO takes that long to skim. Either unconcerned town or coasting scum either way not the best.

Do explain this vote, please.

I ain't seeing it.

Sheeping a vote to get more content from Snowman. I don't nesscarily scumlean him just wanted more content from him since he has posted literally two posts all game. 3 if you count the double post...

[Hawk]

Sheeping a vote to get more content from Snowman. I don't nesscarily scumlean him just wanted more content from him since he has posted literally two posts all game. 3 if you count the double post...

So, you've decided to just throw your vote away for some reason. Got it.

If he ain't reading the thread, he ain't feeling any pressure.

Leave lurksacks alone and do something useful with your vote.

sure sure I'm at work right now will reread and find a better place to put my vote on lunch. Seems fine. Game just slowed down really fast.

[Hawk]

IRL has been keeping me super busy. I'll try and catch up and post tonight.

[Hawk]

Fancypants I liked his post 20 and post 89. Reading that as not pro-town says he possibly wasn't super aware of the player list or at least didn't want to draw attention to that reaction test obviously like Uzi did. Not sure if this means he's town or not but at least he's not reacting too quickly.

Man, I cant disagree with this part of the post any more than I do. Scum wouldn't want to draw attention to a reaction test (in the hopes that a Mason outs themselves) and they also wouldn't want to react too quickly (scum usually let town react first to try and gauge the flow of the thread). Your town read on FP makes no sense to me at all.

89 I like cause taking a stab at early reads when RVS is kinda naturally winding down is good for generating discussion even with soft reads. This is town to me.

He took a stab at early reads....after scum reading someone for stating an early town read. You don't have a problem with that?

Fritz seems to genuinely trying to ScumHunt so I do like that.

Second time I have seen this - where is fitz 'genuinely' scum hunting?

Hi Hawk, I see you posted on page 11 but did not respond to my questions for you.

So I have reposted them to give you a second chance.

Sorry guys I will respond and get a full reads list after this.

Question 1: FP seemed town to me I haven’t had a chance to play catch up so this isn’t necessarily how I feel now. Your argument here by the way is WIFOM. Saying Scum wouldn’t want to draw attention to a reaction test is as easy to say as Scum would want to draw attention to reaction test. One type of scum is LAMIST the other is opportunistic.

Question 2: Nope not really, it’s still well within RVS when this post was made. Gut reading a strong early town read as a scumslip is fine nothing out of the ordinary depending on playstyle. At this point I don’t think anything has been said well enough for him to have anything but gut impressions or soft reads, but the action and motivation behind making an early list, sticking his neck out there and then if we had pressured him had him defend those early reads is town to me.

Question 3: Fitz post immediate before the one you quoted his 138 influenced that comment the most. I think the vote plus the questions leading up to it in posts 16, 23, and 33 all led fairly nicely towards trying to find motivation from Alisae and then pressure him when he didn’t like his response. In hindsight it was probably a bit of a stretchy statement to call it scum hunting but I said it so it was how I was feeling at the time considering the information I had.

[

VOTE: Snowman

Why Snowman?

I vote here because at the time Snowman literally had 3 posts, only two if including the double post and I wanted more content from him. At the time this vote was just trying to draw someone who wasn’t posting to post.

[

Honestly I still don't have the best reads but I wouldn't mind hearing more from Emp.

VOTE: EmpKing

This vote is disgustingly opportunistic.

Possibly, I wasn’t looking for a lynch from it I was just trying to get responses and reactions and people talking since at the time the game felt ridiculously stagnant. As well this particular vote EMP hadn’t posted much content. Just a small hint at Alisae and a shot about masons.

Sorry if the formatting is weird to look at I wasn't sure where to make the breaks for that first part of the post so I just quoted and broke up my response.

[Hawk]

His ISO is short enough to do a post by post:

ISO 3- Mentions his vote is RVS but he ses no reason to unvote. [I can think of a reason...Grey is at L-3 for no stated reason] Town reading Ali, FP and boring..

Responding to all the ones that matter. Yep unvoting when you have no vote to place otherwise feels really lax to me and not something I try to do very often unless we're being close to a hammer or if I have a new vote I just am not sure where to place it.

ISO 4- Says he is townreading Ali for gut and prior experience. Which = 3 games of which only one is done for Ali. Gives meh rationales for town reading the three above. More defense of Ali. Offers a no read on Emp (who he votes ~100 posts later). Wishy washy comments on LUV. Likes my scumhunting..

Didn't have a strong read on EMP, still didn't when I voted 100 posts later for pressure. Wishy Washy??

ISO 5- Unvotes Grey. Not voting Ali yet because doesn't feel he is scummy. [So why say yet?]. Says meta and aggression are NAI...[so why go on and on about how Ali always starts games this way? i.e. meta] Makes comments that seem to be shading mason talk for which Ali is mostly responsible for..

I say yet because exactly the feeling I was having about the Mason talk. Hindsight should have followed my gut and voted Alisae after instead of doing what I do here.... this post is awfully uncharacteristic of me to be honest. However Meta and Aggression are NAI. Not everyone else believes that though, so when people were immediately drawing attention to Alisae I made the comment I did because it seems to me like that's how he starts and whether its Alignment indicative or not you should know that its a thing. When I say I will dig deeper its because I honestly feel like maybe if it helps other people draw conclusions about a player its helpful to find that information. Not that I can read it one way or the other just that's how Alisae plays. Being able to be Aggressive or Passive as regardless of Alignment is what most players should try and do this is why I think that most of that is NAI, because good players don't let their habits create tells.

ISO 6- Explains prior mason comment about mislynches being easier if masons agree. meh. Get's where Grey is coming from. So friends now?.

No, just because I agreed with his theory doesn't mean we're friends or that I was townleaning him. You're drawing a lot of conclusions from theory posts.

ISO 10- Doesn't have the best reads....wants to hear more from Emp so follows Ali and boring onto Emp wagon. Puts Emp at L-3. [So doesn't seem to have any problem putting people at L-3 for little of no solid reasoning. With two groups of three {masons and mafia} that he is concerned could make mislynches easier putting people at L-3 for not much to go on seems careless]..

Honestly this is probably an error on my part. I wasn't treating the game as a Mason game and probably was unaware of the idea that a coordinated lynch from L-3 could be a Mason Lynch. Because typically it doesn't hurt to put people there if it would be all three mafia coordinated to lynch a ML. My bad for being careless.

ISO 12- Begs off pressure from Grey (wrt the snowman vote) and says he will find a better place for his vote {though he is not on Snowman anymore...he is voting Emp].
.

Honestly I'm going through a lot of personal stuff right now so chances are this post I had honestly forgotten I was voting EMP and thought I was still on Snowman.

[Hawk]

I like to push hard when I think I'm right.

The fact that Hawk mostly just responded talking about theory makes me feel even more confident that Hawk is scum.

I'm literally at work trying to form a reads list and responded to all your call outs for early game shit. Lynch me if you want but when I flip green you'll be no closer to winning if you really are town. Which I don't think you are.

[Hawk]

Hawk, are you pretty sure BBT is scum? Are you planning to vote him?

Honestly let me finish reading all the ISO's but from skimming his yeah I scum lean him. Don't like his questioning feels really busy. Naked votes with little content or reasoning around them. I'm still at work sorry if these posts are a bit lacking.

[Hawk]

Not that I posted. To be honest I don't recall BBT being very involved in the game the last time I really was caught up and got to post. something that wasn't an I promise I'll catch up shortly. I mean the last serious post I made before today I had forgotten who my vote was on. Sorry my IRL things have made me have to take a very backseat approach to my games and I haven't had a chance to dig into this game yet and post a catchup since I'm behind.

[Hawk]

Hawk, are you pretty sure BBT is scum? Are you planning to vote him?

Honestly let me finish reading all the ISO's but from skimming his yeah I scum lean him. Don't like his questioning feels really busy. Naked votes with little content or reasoning around them. I'm still at work sorry if these posts are a bit lacking.

I came really close to laughing out loud t this post. It is just so clearly unrelated to the truth.

I've got a townread on BBT, and I might be willing to sheep him closer to the deadline thanks to my natural modesty and humbleness.

Why do you have a town read on BBT?

Also let me explain my skim.

Posts with Empty questions from BBT's ISO
186, 188, 478

Specifically

LUV reading the Hawk and Grey game last night where Grey was "slick scum" seems awfully coincidental.

How does that make him scum?

He looks like he's genuinely scumhunting.

What does 'genuine' scum hunting look like? And how would you differentiate that from 'fake' scum hunting?

Despite Empking's lack of posts I do feel what he has done actually seems aimed at scum hunting.

Which posts? Quote them and explain how they show scum hunting. Emp, would you agree that you have been scum hunting thus far this game?

Like what do you hope to draw from these questions?

The first one is an opinion. He doesn't say awfully coincidental is Alignment Indicative you just infer it as a scumlean? Which it probably is but does it matter? What do you want him to say? LUV made a statement regarding Grey's scum game being very slick. Whether he gathered that from previous experience, reading our last game, or whatever it's a generalized statement and in no way alignment indicative and even if Fitz feels like it is what do you want him to say here that affects your read on LUV, Grey, Me or Fitz?

The second question is semantics. People read behavior and post motivation differently. Some people like some questions some don't like others. Asking what they think is genuine scum hunting and what they think is fake scum hunting is just clutter and fluff. Look at the person they're reading and form your own opinions if they don't line up THEN ask why they think a specific post is scum hunting or genuine not just a general statement.

The last q

[Hawk]

Didn't mean to post that yet Will continue my thoughts here.

The last question is a little better but still kinda similar to the previous other people explaining their own reasoning. Also why would you call towards EMP explaining his own behavior as scum hunting or not? Like this post makes me feel like you and EMP are partnered whether thats Masons or Scum idk. Either way its kinda bleh in terms of content.


Now lets look at bad votes and bad logic.

Vote for Grey in 190
This isn't following your line of thought at all. Shouldn't you be voting Fancy here? Why Grey? Why is this a serious wagon?

Vote for Alisae in 209
No reasoning, just a naked vote. Some things could be inferred from context of posts surrounding the vote but it doesn't really give us any real motivations or logic behind the vote.

Vote for Fitz in 216
Uhhh its been less than 7 posts why are you flipping so much with no reasoning or even backup logic. Like we weren't even talking about Fitz here. In fact Grey was on an Alisae lynch just a minute before which you had been sheeping! WTF?

Ah ok. Yeah re-reading again I still don't like Grey's play.
VOTE: Grey

This vote is awful.

WHAT? This is him literally sheeping your vote on Grey less than 15 posts prior. Why is this vote awful? Why wouldn't your vote be considered awful then? Cause this might be considered opportunistic? Naaaahhhh

My point being...if someone does something you find questionable...that doesn't automatically mean you are scum reading them. Especially after further clarification by that person. And saying I am scum reading someone I did not say that about is a bit misleading btw.

Nah, there has to be something that makes you question it - otherwise you would just let it slide. I also said I 'assumed' and IMO it was a fair assumption to make.[/quote]

Really then why did you vote Grey and not FP when FP was the one you were having major problems with his early game with?

I mean I'm not the only one seeing this right?

I don't care if yall Lynch me. I've played very poorly as town this game so if thats what it is it's my fault. But don't ignore this shit when I'm getting called out for coasting and so many others could just as easily be called out for it.

[Hawk]

I was about to unvote you Hawk because of your reaction to the pressure you got yesterday but on closer look....I still find you suspect and your response to my ISO was weak. And too much "honestly" and "sorry" for my liking btw. I also still suspect Ali. And I'm growing suspect of boring lately as well. I was going to say I wasn't a big fan of Empking and Snarky either because of the lack of effort they seem to be putting into this game and then I realized the same thing applied to most of the players in the game. FP...CMM...Moz....LUV. Fcuk. Actually LUV has posted a good bit. Not sure why it feels like he hasn't.

In response to your 517...

- Being on a wagon for no good reason that get's to L-3 is right on the borderline IMO of being dangerous. The fact that you comment on there being no reason to unvote is what pinged me when clearly there was at least 1, ex. you having no reason to vote him and him being at L-3.

Okay can I say something real quick? When I approach a typical game with a 3 scum team putting people to L-3 early for me isn't too big of a deal. Typically because 1 if its a ML there's already a Maf on it. 2. if there isn't Maf on it, it takes 3 coordinated votes to ML and that's usually never good for mafia as it quickly can put big targets on their backs. and 3. In most games I'm not considering a Mason camp so I wasn't really thinking about that and to top that all off I typically unvote if I don't have a reason to stay at L-2

- So you didn't have a strong read on Emp...yet you were ok following Ali and boring onto his wagon bringing yet again...a player to L-3 for reasons unknown to me.

See above. You may not agree with my playstyle but its how I play.

- I'm still having issues with your Ali defense based on meta and the fact you say meta is NAI. How can you defend Ali based on his meta (very limited meta at that) when you do not think meta is NAI? You can't.

I'm not defending Ali based on meta... I say that its his MO, because for me the few games I've played with Ali, this is how he plays. I'm trying to post reasoning as to why we shouldn't dig to deeply into his meta, I even say later that I'm not voting Ali yet because I haven't found him scummy. I don't say that just because I'm town leaning him. I say that because Meta is NAI and I could easily scumlean him if he does something that makes me feel that way. Also if you feel like this is BS go read my post 139 I say mostly gut for you you're acting similar to how you have before in games. But I also state that I've only had three games with him. So him acting similar even if I thought meta was AI doesn't give me anything considering I say I know his alignment for only one of those games. I even say to take all that for what it's worth. I don't think Meta is NAI cause it can be changed. However, I can see where my earlier comments might have been read the way you're reading it now.

- I'm "drawing a lot of conclusions from theory posts?" A lot? One isn't a lot...so show me two conclusions I've made from theory posts. And if one of them is you and Grey being friends...scratch that becuase that wasn't a conclusion. A conclusion would be me saying...Oh look...Grey and Hawk are friends now. I don't say that. I ask if you were to which you were perfectly capable of, and did, reply no. So show me a lot (2) conlusions please.

Okay so one of which was the Me and Grey because I assumed that question was rhetorical. Two all of your implications of me being scummy because of my playstyle and theory behind why I would not unvote at L-3 or be fine putting people to L-3 in a mason game are drawing conclusions since this summary post is why am I scum. If they weren't conclusions you might say something like he's pretty risky and his logic doesn't make 100% sense to me but there's not a lot of reasoning so I'm okay with voting him instead of "Conclusion....yeah...not liking Hawk on closer review."

Like you see how I can say you're drawing conclusions about theory right? Maybe I misworded before when I said theory posts since for me BBT is right I haven't given enough content and a lot of reasoning was weak and mostly just theory things. I even played terribly risky when I didn't need to because I wasn't thinking about two camps possibly being able to coordinate hammer from L-3. Not that either group would ever do that because to be honest its not smart play for either team....

- "This is probably an error on my part" How can you say you weren't treating the game as a mason game when you had discussed theory about masons potentially facillitating mislynches if they all agree (with mafia) on a mislynch wagon? "probably wasn't unaware of the idea" doesn't fly when you talk about it, more than once, a few ISO posts earlier..

Why doesn't it fly?? I address the Mason idea because we're talking Mason theory with Ali on why his reaction test is bad/good and why its risky for Grey to play hyper aggressive an get scum leaned by Masons. I didn't really put together that with the VC that putting people at L-3 is more risky than usual (because I don't feel its risky normally at all in a non-mason game. L-2 is where it's risky for me.)

So my vote stays.


So Hawk...why are you still voting Empking? Do you suspect him?.

Haven't unvoted. EMP is on my scumlean, I'll explain in my reads post.

Can you name 2 or 3 players you actually suspect?

None of these are super strong but Moz, BBT, EMP maybe CMM or FP.... I don't think Moz and BBT are paired so its only one or the other and I don't know if EMP were to flip who his partners would be so these are softish.

Can you name 2 or 3 players you actually think are town?

I like AH, Boring, UZI, and You for all differing reasons. None of you are in my forever town pile but I have good feelings all around here. Some things irk me but chalking that up to inexperience with you guys.

Here's where I stand at the moment.

Suspects: Hawk, Ali, boring
Suspect a little less: Snarky, Emp, FP, Moz, CMM, LUV & Anti
Suspect least atm: Grey, BBT

Here's my readlist. I'll give some reasoning's in the next post.


Townleans:
AntiHuman
Boring
UZI
Alisae

Null:
FP
Fitz
Snarky
CMM
Grey

Scumleans:
Moz
EMP
BBT

[Hawk]

Antihuman: Townlean

Like 155,
Reads with reasoning, logic seems sound I don't disagree with any of his post here. I do wonder motivation behind wanting to push Mozamis so strongly but I'll say its gut and an early pressure play.
Like 176,
The reasoning is pretty poor but its not exactly unreasonable to vote the way he does. Respect for at least saying this. Give me better insight into his game
Like 178,
Good reasoning, pinches off WIFOM argument before it gets started. Maybe Buddying SS but I don't think so.
Love 375
Solid logic, Defends his Mozami's read earlier. Feeling it more now. I'm indifferent about CMM. Strongly feel like Scum wouldn't post content in this way that gives me such a good insight to his thought process as to why he doesn't like EMP's wagon, my posts, Alisae's possible playstyle and lots of other things. Doesn't go deep into reasonings but he at least points out his thoughts keeps them short and sweet and too the point so its easier to follow.

Everything after this in his ISO just further cements his stance on the game, He didn't like Moz because of similar reasons BBT and others don't like me and why I don't like Moz. Its really unfortunate that theres a slim chance that me and BBT might be TvT and scum just get to sit back because I wasn't active enough here.

Boring: Townlean

Boring

Like 91
Solid reasoning and logic, admits he doesn't have perfect information, nothing really scummy here.

Like general idea of not asking questions so much as directing thoughts towards people and explaining reasonably to questions asked of him.
Ex. 117 to CMM, 164 to LUV, 194 to BBT and AH

Like 289
Sheep vote is fine, requests reasoning I find this vote is fine I do the same thing not a few posts later and do this a lot in general.

Like 330
Nice call out on Grey, not sure what Grey saw but like he says in 333 Grey can call it out if need be.

I'm at work so I will point out more reasoning's later but for the rest of Boring's list I understand where he's coming from. This game is pretty blah and its hard getting any real reads on anyone. This is why most of my reads are leans or null. I just can't commit people to one side or the other very well. Even my Moz, EMP, and BBT leans are soft but they seem the most particular for me.

BBT has been attacking possible low hanging fruit. Moz is like mass diverting every wagon with "why rush?" and not providing commentary of his own. and EMP has been just generally not active in a way that reads town to me. But none of this nails them as scum to me. I'm fine with a lynch today on any of them. I'll explain the rest of my reads after work or on my lunch.

[Hawk]

The above is what caught scum looks like

This... I never understand what reads town about a 180 on someone. Like a true 180 not an early 180 or a 180 after PR claim. Like you're town reading me now that I've said I'd be okay to lynch Moz?? Why? You were 100% I was scum. Then a little later you were not so sure, and now that my wagon lost traction you 180 me and ask to lynch Moz??

Like I understand second guessing your read but you said 100% this needs to happen when you called for my lynch.

So to me there are three likely scenarios here

1. The most likely, BBT is scum and Moz is town so this is a flailing scum trying to deter us from lynching and force a mislynch.

2. Inbetween, BBT is scum and Moz is Scum and this bus if it went through would potentially clear BBT and then maf would NK me at some point or if BBT gets lynched distances Moz putting Moz in better light tomorrow.

3. Far less likely. Flailing town. Moz alignment doesn't matter because it doesn't relate to me or BBT as we're both Town here and scumlean Moz.

There are some other scenarios but those seem the most likely to happen were we to go and lynch BBT or Moz today.

I'm feeling BBT tho. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry BBT but I don't think you should have been so quick to 180 me after being so adamant before.

VOTE: BBT

This puts him to L-3.

[Hawk]

Hawky I never said anything about silly percentages.
You're misreping me.
Unless you're not talking to me.

No I was talking about BBT. I just quoted you because I agree that BBTs 180 reads as caught scum.

[Hawk]

VOTE: Hawk

This 100% needs to happen.

Hawk is doing just enough to coast by whilst we have 13 players around and where his absence is not as easily noticed.

His posts pretty much consist of nothing for the entire game to date.

Classic D1 scum behaviour - especially when you add in how chirpy he gets when talking about theory (scum always feel comfortable discussing theory over anything else).

Hawk is a great lynch for today. Let's do it!

Antihuman, what you just said makes no sense.

Nobody is offering Hawk as a 'compromise lynch', we're lynching him because he is scum.

Hawk's rebuttal was mostly theory talk and wishy-washy comments that didn't really go anywhere. If I feel the need to respond to it later today when I have more time, I'll do so.

I haven't dodged your question - you asked why he is being lynched for coasting. I'm saying that's not why he is being lynched. What more do you want me to say?

Also, the Hawk wagon is the first (?) wagon to face real resistance. That also tells me we're on the right track.

What about the Hawk lynch was 'easy'? Where did you get that from?

I detect a tad bit of buddying from Anti to boring here with the comments relating to SS.

I'm literally at work trying to form a reads list and responded to all your call outs for early game shit. Lynch me if you want but when I flip green you'll be no closer to winning if you really are town. Which I don't think you are.

How would you feel about lynching Moz?

I like Fitz and AH's words.

What do you like about Anti's posting?

What about their tone tells you they're town? Can you give specific examples of 'how they've been playing' that makes you think they're town as well please?

Gut and currently I can't.

Why not?

I'm convinced BBT v Hawk is TvS. Can't figure out who the scum is in this situation.
So I'ma just sheep this
VOTE: Hawk

How did you rule out TvT or SvS in this situation? What specifically tells out it is TvS?

Just for you Hawk

The first one is an opinion. He doesn't say awfully coincidental is Alignment Indicative you just infer it as a scumlean? Which it probably is but does it matter? What do you want him to say?

Well, you must not be reading very clearly. I explained my questions to Fitz and why it was important to me. You also made the same 'bad assumption' that I made because Fitz did not scumlean on LUV so my push on fitz comments about Uzi needing clarifying are evident from this post alone.

The last question is a little better but still kinda similar to the previous other people explaining their own reasoning. Also why would you call towards EMP explaining his own behavior as scum hunting or not?

Did you agree with FPs assessment that Emp was scum hunting? I didn't and I wanted FP to convince me his read was based on decent reasoning. I would call on EMP to explain his own behaviour because if EMP has come out and said that he didn't feel like he had started scum hunting at that point then it would have been extra difficult for FP to defend his position if the read was false.

Now lets look at bad votes and bad logic.

Vote for Grey in 190
This isn't following your line of thought at all. Shouldn't you be voting Fancy here? Why Grey? Why is this a serious wagon?

I'm pretty sure you're just parroting here and I'm pretty sure I already repsonded to LUV when he asked these exact same questions. Are you really reading or do you just think you have found a potential target to get your teeth in to and appear active? (<<< Is a rhetorical question before you accuse me of looking busy with questions).

Vote for Alisae in 209
No reasoning, just a naked vote. Some things could be inferred from context of posts surrounding the vote but it doesn't really give us any real motivations or logic behind the vote.

You're answering your own questions/queries in the very same post - it can easily be inferred from context as to why I voted Alisae.

Vote for Fitz in 216
Uhhh its been less than 7 posts why are you flipping so much with no reasoning or even backup logic. Like we weren't even talking about Fitz here. In fact Grey was on an Alisae lynch just a minute before which you had been sheeping! WTF?

I mean, once again, I feel like I was very clear with why I switched my vote onto Fitz. These questions have all been answered within the thread.

WHAT? This is him literally sheeping your vote on Grey less than 15 posts prior. Why is this vote awful? Why wouldn't your vote be considered awful then? Cause this might be considered opportunistic?

It's all about context and clearly you're missing it. Alisae went to reread thread or supposedly reevaluate the game. Instead of bringing any insightful analysis, he just goes back to jumping onto Grey when he thinks there is traction on that wagon.

I'd rather Lynch mozamis, though. He's done nothing to change my read since I voted him.

[

/quote]
I'll lynch Moz if Hawk will.

I'm not town reading you because of you're willing to lynch Moz.

I'm town reading you for your response to being wagoned.

You sure you're not? See how your train of thought goes from so confident to questioning to flipping to possibly flailing? Like your flip flop feels like flailing to me because the wagonext flipped on you after my response rather than anything else. Also I bolded where you said youd lynch Moz if I would... that type of statement is rather awkward when you're scumreading me so hard just prior...

[Hawk]

Also, I try not to be picky (because in the end of the day, it doesn't matter), but seeing myself described as "he" is a little confusing for me. I start reading sentences and have to backtrack, thinking someone has switched subjects without me realizing.

I'm sorry if I mess up your pronoun boring. I'm sure I've done it. I'll remember you're a she. My bad. Also Alisae is a he for anyone who remarks he is a she cause I think I've seen that too.

[Hawk]

I now seem confident in my town read.

I still don't see how that's flailing.

The speed of my wagon and lack of resistance should be telling you something. But I'mma let you work that out for yourself.

Alright I'll conceed that maybe flailing isn't the word I want here but the flip floppy nature makes me wary of your reasoning... It just feels pretty quick for you to switch off of me onto Mozamis. and boring makes a good point as Moz has been someone we've all been looking at prior.

Speed of the wagon doesn't bother me too much. We're 5 days from deadline and the games been kinda stagnant so a faster wagon on someone doesn't nesscarily bother me. My wagon built pretty quickly too.

Resistance to the wagon isn't there because people arent believing your town? Like I don't buy that you're town. Could I be wrong. Of course. Just like if I had been lynched you guys would be wrong about your Scum lean on me. My lynch met resistance because I resisted it. You seem less active in proving you're town when under pressure...

[Hawk]

I'm super wordy Alisae. It's just how I am. If you want I can try and trim it down more...

[Hawk]

It's not that...
It's just I don't remember you being the type of person to use walls

Ummmm this is only our third game together? Also it might help that quite a few of these bigger walls I was able to use my computer. I played all of my games via mobile up until eariler this week cause I finally got my comp back up and running so that might be it. Plus I got on my work computer earlier today.

[Hawk]

Anti-town != Pro-scum

BBT not being super concerned with helping find scum in his last moments doesn't make him scum. It makes him petulant.

Why would scum feel petulant over being lynched? They wouldn't.

Scum does a lot of things when they think they're hammered, but I don't really see them sulk.

I've had scum get upset and sulk before. And for the most part Scum I know tend to die with their mouths shut lest they imply any of their partners. But I dont disagree that this response was more anti-town than scum.

I think he's still an okay lynch if the day doesn't progress in any other direction. Honestly I still think he might be scum. Most cases as town if I think I'm being hammered I try and throw every last bit of info and insight that I have.

[Hawk]

If I've been baited into prematurely claiming I can't even be bothered with this game. Clearly I'm not paying enough attention.

How were you baited into claiming prematurely? You really were at L-1 just Grey was a fake hammer.

[Hawk]

I didn't need to claim because there was no intent to hammer.

Lynch Moz or Uzi if you want to hit scum.

This is interesting...

Why Uzi?
Why Moz?

What makes you so sure about that.

question why did you claim? You make it sound like there was intent to hammer. But if I read back the VC went. Uzi puts you to L-1, Alisae unvotes to avoid a deep hammer, then you claim after this is clarified, and a fake hammer comes in from Grey... no where in there did we talk about intent to hammer.


Like to me it reads as resigned to being lynched rather than baited into claiming.

[Hawk]

Having played with BBT before I can see this reaction coming from him as town

Holy shit where did you come from!!

But seriously please weigh in here. Also Meta is NAI.... sulking after this scenario is easily done by town and scum....

How do you feel about BBT before this?
What's your reads look like?

I have like 1000 questions but just start posting content please CMM

[Hawk]

General questions I want answered from specific people. I'll reference some posts for clarity afterwords if I have too.

@ Alisae you still think BBT is scum who's buddies with him? What did you think about Uzi's certainty on the hammer then a call for you to be looked at tomorrow?

@Uzi. Why should we look at Ali tomorrow? You never answered AH Aabout that you just said cause BBT was hammered.

@Grey do you always use Fake hammers as reaction tests cause I swear to God I saw it this time, but last time and if this is your MO imma never be able to take you seriously when we play lol. Also side note. Considering LUV said he read up on our game don't you think it's a bit strange he kinda fell for the fake hammer?

@CMM What do you think of the people involved right around the time of the fake hammer. (Grey, Ali, LUV). Note that Ali really wasn't apart of it he just happened to unvote to prevent derphammer and then revoted when he got the claim I don't really read that one way or the other since I can understand that reasoning.

[Hawk]

Eww pre-flip associations. DISGUSTING LAD!
If people want to re-evaluate me they are so welcome to do so.

Forgive me for the wall between my thought process and yours. I understand leaning BBT scum, who are your other top scum leans if not BBT or along with BBThe. that's all I'm asking.

[Hawk]

ok so is the main case on BBT thta he contradicted himself about Hawk coasting?

Not for me. I mean yes this is one thing but I didn't particularly like BBT before that because of his wishy washy reads and reasonings. I spell that out in my defense of myself.

[Hawk]

Like you're town reading me now that I've said I'd be okay to lynch Moz?? Why? You were 100% I was scum. Then a little later you were not so sure, and now that my wagon lost traction you 180 me and ask to lynch Moz??

Yeah agree with this.
However, she also thnks BBT is scum, and the way he just came out and said you were town to deflect from him seemed scummy, so i dont know about alisae.
Possible bus from him maybe?

This was directed at BBT I just quoted Alisae cause I was agreeing with him. Alisae is a he by the way...

[Hawk]

People need to calm the fuck down. We still have 3 days to lynch.
We need more from BBT.
And I would like to hear more from Ali about her going from Hawk to BBT and unvoting and revoting etc.
I'll hammer BBT if necessary but i think we should hear more from him first.

I'm fine with this but as of right now BBT seems to have checked himself out of this game... :/

[Hawk]

What does it mean?!?!?!

but is BBT for sure hammered can we get a VC?

[Hawk]

Double rainbows are awesome it's a meme that's why I said what does it mean... lol

[Hawk]

How are we still in twilight...

Townleans are Grey, Boring, CMM, and Fitz. I firmly think AH is town.

Top scum leans are Emp and Moz. Uzi and Ali I don't think are paired but I don't got solid reads on either of themy.

All reads are subject to change when I damn well feel like it. :p

[Hawk]

Bleh that flip feels bad considering he stopped trying to defend himself.

I'll post again in a little while with a vote and possibly insight if I can find anything.

[Hawk]

Alisae wtf is that logic? Why does Fitz bailing look like panic'd scum?? BBT flipped town? Sure Fitz wasn't the hammer nor was he sure of the Wagon. I don't understand this logic from Moz or from Alisae.

VOTE: Alisae

[Hawk]

@Fitz what do you think of Grendel's catchup?

@Grendel while I would like to hear more about why you are Town leaning people would you do me a favor and Explain why you dislike Anti?

[Hawk]

I'm sleep deprived but decided to stop in and say hello anyway

Actually Grendal, why are you explaining why you're townreading people?

I like to explain all my reads when I can, and I decided to start where I feel strongest.

What's the prob bob?

@Fitz what do you think of Grendel's catchup?

@Grendel while I would like to hear more about why you are Town leaning people would you do me a favor and Explain why you dislike Anti?

I haven't exactly finished explaining things. Only dropped a reads list, and expounded on some trs.

Also, Patience is a virtue.

I'm guessing your still positive Antihume is town? ANy new reasons, or are they the same ones you had when you were walling?

also
UNVOTE:

Townbloc this game is probably Mick, Moz, Grey, AH, Fitz, Uzi.

Why are you so good for town Moz, and AH?

While I haven't changed much of my opinion on AH being town I'm never 100% on anyone unless they claim with proof or something to that extent.

I'm more interested in what you saw that might be scummy behavior from AH.

I won't say he's without scummy things cause I haven't checked his ISO since the flip. And pre-flip asside from his half a white Knight on me nothing seemed too off. But I was also being run up for inactivity so I might have been a bit biased for people taking my side.

Also for what it's worth I deeply regret my terrible play D1 that led to BBT's lynch.

[Hawk]

VOTE: Uzi

Get off the mason.

Got news for you

This is extremely important and may not be anything substantial now but should be noted in the future.

Also sorry I'm doing this catchup backwards.

Pedit: Moz's tone? Please point to examples of what you mean. Cause I don't particularly feel Moz is town....

[Hawk]

Is scum really Hawk, Snowman, and Grendal?

At least one of these is wrong

[Hawk]

I like a lot of Grendel's reads and explanations. While I don't think he's really scumhunting yet he's at least being more contributiversatile than some other players.

Alisae you flip flop your vote so much why?

Can we get on this VOTE: Moz

Like Moz's ISO is pretty lacking in content. He spends plenty of time defending himself, echoing other people's comments and questions. and very little time pressuring. The closest I've seen from him in regards to pressure is FoSing Alisae but he doesn't even do so very heavily just kinda casually and today it was the first comment he made and then when Alisae's wagon formed he hasn't engaged him at all. Just sat back and let everyone else do the work. I don't like this.

[Hawk]

While I didn't express it near the end of the lynch I stayed on BBT because even if we hadn't lynched him unless his attitude 180'd and he put forth any type of effort he would have just held us back as town.

I mean what if he was scum. If we let him slide through D1 with such an I give up attitude because he got wagon'd and felt like he wasn't going to be listened to then we set a precedent for town reading giving up underpressure. It's not good for town to be so loose with someone who won't defend themselves or actively hunt scum after being pressured.

[Hawk]

Idly commenting in reference to Moz and Grendel talking about BBT being a policy lynch at that point.

[Hawk]

3 day weekends/vla's are grrrrrrrrreat!
Catching up in 3 games not so much.

So we had Ali at L-1 and let the wagon shrink. Ffs.

Hawk...why moz over Ali? Do you still sr Ali?

I think LUV is town. Leaning town on CMM...maybe Empking.
Snowman seems like lynchbait in all the games I've seen him in. So not a fan of his short lived wagon.

Fairly convinced of this after rereading the whole thread. I'm on mobile so I will outline later but here's where I'm at.

Town: LUV, CMM, Snowman, and Fitz probably.

Town leans: Grendel and AH.

I think Grey vs Ali is TvS not sure which way.
I think at least one of Moz or EMP is scum.

Regardless I want some pressure on Moz because I feel I need some more from him to get some better reads and I'm not ruling out he's scum.

[Hawk]

What are your thoughts on Grey again?

Haven't been scum reading him. If I had to pick I'd guess he was town. Not a fan him following around Ali today despite maaaybe suspecting that slot. Not interested in voting him any time soon.

Alisae is my top scumread atm. I only unvoted because the day was young and the wagon was big.

Woah woah woah. I'm fairly certain you thought he was a mason.

[Hawk]

Grey, I'm flipping Green.

I believe you. That push is embarrassing.

{boring, Alisae}
{}
{FancyPants, havingfitz, Hawk}
{SnarkySnowman, Antihuman, Empking, LilUziVert}
{BBT}
{mozamis, ConManMick}

I saw something that made me believe that Alisae is town that I had written off on the initial read through.

Seems pretty obvious.

The only way Alisae's d1 play makes any kind of sense is from the perspective of a mason trolling for reactions. That's why I flipped my read so hard yesterday.

His little "Masons with Transcend" gambit makes perfect sense if the real Masons knew he wasn't fishing them out... which they would if he was one...

Also, his whole attitude yesterday was "fuck you, I'm untouchable".

Get the fuck off Alisae and find scum.

VOTE: Uzi

Get off the mason.

Oh?

Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.

All in one fell swoop.

VOTE: Alisae

What are your thoughts on Grey again?

Haven't been scum reading him. If I had to pick I'd guess he was town. Not a fan him following around Ali today despite maaaybe suspecting that slot. Not interested in voting him any time soon.

Alisae is my top scumread atm. I only unvoted because the day was young and the wagon was big.

Uhhhh yeah that looks like a contradiction?

Which one is it Grey? Did you think he was a Mason D1 or did you honestly unvote because of wagon reasons. Cause Your posts kinda indicate otherwise.

[Hawk]

Ehhh, let's not leave that lying around.

UNVOTE:

Nvm... you're referring to this unvote yeah?? My bad I'm an idiot. And my thinking was off...

Ignore me people I'm a retard

[Hawk]

Keep reading.

Alisae said he wasn't a mason, which flipped a bitch on my reads.

I realized that I thought your comment about why you unvoted was in reference to that unvote post d1 which clearly was you mason reading Ali.

[Hawk]

Awww reallyou don't replace out :/ I know it's kinda stagnant but the game isn't that bad right?

[Hawk]

Okay so can we discuss maybe how inorganic Yesterday's lynch felt I know AH is on VLA and Grey and Ali just requested a sub out but I'd like to try and not let this game stagnate into oblivion...

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

Sure I wouldn't mind hearing Antis sentiments.

My votes still there but CMM's fake hammer makes me wary of a derp Hammer.

[Hawk]

VC 2.L

Alisae (L) - havingfitz, Empking, Lil Uzi Vert, ConManMick, mozamis

mozamis (L-3) - SnarkySnowman, Grendel

NV (3) - -Grey- (TBR) , antihuman (Returned!), Alisae, Hawk

With 8 active players, it takes 5 to lynch.

Alisae was a

Vanilla Townie.

Night 2 has begun, vote is off, -Grey- will be replaced under standard procedure.

(expired on 2017-02-03 16:24:00)

Hawk why did you avoid both wagons?

If you check back I was originally on Moz I unvoted to give us time and space because two people were replacing and Anti was rejoining the game near the end of the day. The flip to Ali from Moz after all that and two misLynches makes me think we were on the right track.

VOTE: Mozamis

[Hawk]

ConManMick, Fitz, Hawk top scum reads.

That's three scum pair doesn't make sense MB.

It's Emp Fitz and Moz most likely. If you can't see it it's cause you're blind. Vote either Emp or Moz.

Town:
Hawk
LUV
CMM
Snowman

Null:
MB
Antihuman

Scum:
Fitz
Empking
Mozamis

I'll explain when my head isn't pounding from sinus headaches and I'm not drugged up on cough medicine.

[Hawk]

Okay so I need to catch up and reread but this is where I'm at.

Grey thought Alisae was a mason. I believe you're town or at least more town than scum MB. Meaning you aren't a mason. I'm not a Mason. only one VT left besides that. Probably AH to be honest but I need to relook to be sure.

So give me just a bit and I'll walk you through the remaining 6. I'm literally unable to breathe through my nose IRL and compiling the associative tells I've seen isn't easy hopped up on meds.

Pedit: I won't flip scum MB. If you lynch me it'll be 60% chance Mason dies tomorrow and we go lylo. I'm fine lynching Fitz today. He's in my scum 3 anyway. You want me to vote him?

[Hawk]

Hey guys, I'm still here just had a bad crisis IRL that I had to deal with. I will be back sometime tomorrow in the evening my time. I've never had to do this.

@Mod VLA till Tuesday 1900 CST?

[Hawk]

Fine, we'll just lynch Fitz and I'll do the thing Day 3.

Or you can provide reasons now.

There's masons VTs and mafia. That's it. There is no "thing" you can do today except provide reasons. Since ya know Day 3 is today.

Day 4

No there is a thing and it doesn't matter if we fuck up today because it's an auto win if I do it tomorrow.

So I'm back. I think I've been reading this correctly the whole time people who haven't should hopefully learn to read better. I really hope I'm not wrong

VOTE: fitz

That puts him at L-1 I think, Fitz claim?

[Hawk]

Bleh I missed a lot. My bad guys I would have Hammered Moz but it's fine fairly certain if Fitz is VT that makes me think Moz, Empking, MB or giga

Honestly it was my fault I've been too busy IRL and keep forgetting about this game. Moz Fitz EMP still makes the most sense to me and the fact that they never make any kind of stand together just means there could be only two scum there. Hopefully it wasn't fitz.

[Hawk]

Fairly certain it's MB, Moz, King. I'm fine with Moz today, let me catch up just to be sure.

Point of fact long I hate myself for not lynching Moz the day we lynched Ali's slot.

[Hawk]

Yeah upon further review I'm sold. MB, King, Moz scum team go go go.

VOTE: moz

If Moz flips town beautiful play by Grey and Giga.

[Hawk]

UNVOTE:

wait hold on then. I hate replacements doesn't make it easy to read solid iso's

[Hawk]

... Did MB really ask if scum had day chat...

uggghhhh Uzi which way are you leaning??

[Hawk]

I know that's what I was wondering....

I'm fine with Moz or King today I'm gonna need some time to sort this out. Both Anti and Grey stood out as town to me D1 at this point one was scum but I'm not sure who so it'll be interesting when we get there.

Man I really thought Fitz was scum :/ this is rough.

[Hawk]

I've never played with Town Grey and I lost my first newbie game on site to scum grey subbing into a slot. Uzi knows that it's the game referenced on like page 3 lol.

Okay I'm leaning more Grey is scum too. His pressure on Alisae and then pull off because he thinks Ali is a mason the pressure back on feels very odd...

If Moz is town here we weren't winning this game anyway man :/ no chance it's Giga MB King right uzi? I mean we could always lynch king first he is on Moz right now which is odd to me but I think that's what he wants me to think....

[Hawk]

Giga either one of those plans are fine because they won't fail since I'm paired with Uzi Snowman and CMM :p

Also no I don't need the thread open to solve.

[Hawk]

like there's literally no way it's not mathblade/king and i'm 100% ok losing to hawk here

This makes me wary of Giga but the AH slot didn't seem super scummy d1. I was almost as good as dead trying to fight BBT. Anti didn't have to try and defend me d1 and be reasonable if he was scum. If this all devolved into some crazy pocket well fuck me and town but I'm fairly certain it's MB King Moz

King Moz seems 100%, Giga is like 80-90% town to me MB about 10% ish. There's a 10% world where King and Giga are fucking us.

[Hawk]

I suppose I still haven't dug in super deep to see if there's a reason for Grey/AH/King to kill Grendel I don't think so yeah I'm fairly certain it's MB. I'm honestly surprised I lived through yesterday because I thought me and Uzi were clearly trying to convey the masonry was me him and snarky.

[Hawk]

moz could you please explain to me why, as scum, i don't quickhammer you in 1560?

Moz/Giga/King scumteam.

[Hawk]

That's yhe answer to your question. not that I think you're scum giga.

[Hawk]

moz could you please explain to me why, as scum, i don't quickhammer you in 1560?

Moz/Giga/King scumteam.

yes

but i'm asking for moz's pov here

That's yhe answer to your question. not that I think you're scum giga.

technically not tho, that just still means moz is confscum

I know town!Moz doesn't have a leg to stand on in that world.

F3 should be me Giga and MB right? I don't see it unless scum think forcing a mason as the f3 Kingmaker is better. in which case they will probably kill me.

Honestly MB'say play is suspect since I basically spelled it out for him yesterday and he still didn't get who the masonry was and came up with some shitty ass Fitz/CMM scum team/coded language to Moz that this is the masonry. Fuck can we just get to f3 I am slowly becoming very confident in my MB/Moz/King scumteam read.

[Hawk]

zzzzzzzzz this game is boring and going nowhere Snowman can we hammer already? Uzi do you have any questions for me?

Snowman here are most likely scum teams including mine from mason point of view.

Moz/King/MB
Moz/King/Giga

Moz/King/Hawk
Moz/MB/Giga
Moz/MB/Hawk
Moz/Giga/Hawk

Any world where Moz is town she gets instahammered by Giga or by MB for the win earlier.

Any one of the world's where King is not Scum can be solved by looking at us not going immediately for Uzi who has been dropping King scumreads since like d1.

Moz/King/Hawk doesn't work because well I'm town... At least that's my perspective. Yours I'll have to double check but I'm fairly certain some questionable things involving Kings constant pressure on me plus Grendel being NK when I'm clearly aware of the masonry from like d1 is suspect.

That leaves the top two. Giga was AH and to be honest if AH was scum him being reasonable d1 about my wagon seems plausible but I don't know. AH is really hard to read on out.

Grey's slot aka apparently the scummy d1 slot does look most suspect and the fact that I spelled out scumteam possible 4 for MB and he still didn't get the masonry makes me feel like he's scummy but could.just be poor town play.

Ultimately it's up to yall but I'm leaning MB. Both of those top scum teams are likely.

[Hawk]

VOTE: moz

I'm ready for this. Outside of this I feel strongest about giga.

Strongest that giga is scum or that giga is town? Cause I kinda need to know.

[Hawk]

I want the Masons opinion because chances are if we get this right all the way down to f3 it's gonna be you me and Giga MB...

[Hawk]

in case you were wondering it was uzi me and king

i didnt hammer earlier bc i was scared hawk may have

hawk why did you fakeclaim vt?? uzi was really insightful and picked up on CMM and Snarky's crumbs but that doesnt mean you should roleswap lmfaooooo

other than that i think apathy mostly killed town here. mathblade sorry for being awful but you played well

Thanks for admitting you slowplayed.

That makes me feel so much better for defending Moz both wagons were Town.

Well done Giga.

Guess I don't need to do that case anymore do I?

[Hawk]

the first one doesn't seem to be loading.

MB are you dense? Uzi and Snowman confirmed each other earlier he said the scum team was Uzi, king, Giga why would me and Snowman let Uzi claim mason -_-;

[Hawk]

i'm not a he and i claimed scum with uzi

Giga stop trolling. Also sorry bout the pronoun.

[Hawk]

This is lylo. LUV and I are the masons. How does that affect your reads Math

Confirming.

Hawk is town for blatantly pointing out and publicly noting one of my crumbs.

If Giga and Uzi were scum with King and I was Mason with Snowman why would we do this... Like what? That means VT are you and Moz... like seriously how did Giga, Uzi, King make any God damn sense to you lol.

Masons are Uzi, CMM and Snowman lol. I'm not a mason.

[Hawk]

if we lose because Moz is town imma be sad :/

[Hawk]

ah fuck it i dont know lynch giga then mathblade.
then its hawk v king i guess.

Also if this flips scum.

Not sure if this is reverse gambit or double reverse gambit but FU Moz I do what I want.

[Hawk]

Moz I do what I want.

er of course. JUst giving out my reads. You look pretty town but its just p.o.e i think i thas to be giga and math. so then it comes down to you or king.unlike giga i'm not trying to bully people into a lynch, just giving out my reads.

I thought you were saying you were town. If you're town games over we are in lylo -_-; Giving reads is pointless unless you're trying to communicate to your Scum buddies.

[Hawk]

Snowman do you have any questions? LUV was scum reading King so I think that's where our votes should be today.

[Hawk]

I agree with Giga here. I'm fairly confident in the MB King scumteam but it's up to snowman.

[Hawk]

VOTE: King Where was all this yesterday King -_-;; Also I'm confirmed town Ive known the masonry since Uzi came in and said Snowman is town and so is CMM. Why would I leave masonry alive for so long? Wouldn't it make more sense to have blind town searching for scum?

[Hawk]

VOTE: King Where was all this yesterday King -_-;;

Sorry, too busy hammering your scumbuddy.

Also I'm confirmed town Ive known the masonry since Uzi came in and said Snowman is town and so is CMM. Why would I leave masonry alive for so long? Wouldn't it make more sense to have blind town searching for scum?

The treason why the Masons wre so hard to find was because they were acting like such scum.

Scum would have realised that LUV's play was Mason rather than Scum. The fact that you never considered that possibility only has one explanation: You knew he wasn't in your PT.

Why you didn't you kill them? Because tjheir reads were pretty wrong. LUV, for instance,hasn't had an accurate read all game.The fact that he was willing to lynch Moz rather than forcing a mislynch on me probably came as a shock to you.

Wut you realize that makes no sense right? Like leaving Masons alive is just stupid as scum EMP look at the vote counts me and Moz are never if I was scum wouldn't I just run up the mislynch on you earlier like Uzi was a mason. I knew he was a Mason. Your logic is that he has a bad read on you and as scum we as scum team never ran up that mislynch? That's stupid you're literally talking out your ass with this logic.

[Hawk]

VC 2.4

mozamis (L-1) - ConManMick, SnarkySnowman, Hawk, Grendel

Alisae (L-2) - havingfitz, Empking, Lil Uzi Vert
SnarkySnowman (L-4) - mozamis

NV (3) - -Grey- (TBR) , antihuman (V/LA), Alisae (TBR)

With 8 active players, it takes 5 to lynch.

(expired on 2017-02-07 15:56:00)

VC 2.L

Alisae (L) - havingfitz, Empking, Lil Uzi Vert, ConManMick, mozamis

mozamis (L-3) - SnarkySnowman, Grendel

NV (3) - -Grey- (TBR) , antihuman (Returned!), Alisae, Hawk

With 8 active players, it takes 5 to lynch.

Alisae was a

Vanilla Townie.

Night 2 has begun, vote is off, -Grey- will be replaced under standard procedure.

(expired on 2017-02-03 16:24:00)

Never together** Why would I not stay on and mislynch Alisae d2 if me and moz are scum together? I will admit me not coming back and hammering Moz was bad and lax by me I left my vote on the wrong person here considering The whole masonry was on him that day.

EMP is scum. So is MB. Snowman if you have questions just ask buy we should be on King today

[Hawk]

V/LA till Wednesday sometime.

[Hawk]

Hey guys my daughter was just born! Just checking in but after ISOing MB I'm fairly certain that he is scum... He latches very hard onto the fitz lynch and doesn't let go. Presses and Presses that Masons shouldn't claim but honestly I think Masons should have claimed especially if it was fitz at the time. If Fitz claims Scum wouldn't CC/couldn't cc cause Moz claimed VT. I honestly think all of this and the attempts of Moz to place some pressure on me yesterday and Giga follow up with Kings attempt today means it's MB and King. If I go to lylo my minds already made up.

Convince me otherwise I won't move my vote off of King today unless SnarkySnowman wants to run up MB today and King and GI gave both vote first.

pedit:

King proving not scum teams with votes outside of what we've done just proves that you're scum, We run too much risk of coordinated hammer with that play.

What we could try but one wrong guess and it's game over so shut up scum.

[Hawk]

Also if we aren't in night I'll post more tomorrow I'm just doing a check in this is what my VLA was for!

[Hawk]

Yeah I don't sheep. Especially not someone who doesn't explain why. If someone is town (even if they are a mason) their play will hunt and they will naturally discuss the other masons but in a positive light. The whole "I'm not discussing my reads and just sheep me" is garbage. If you want me to vote someone you explain why or I keep my reads the same.

Only Moz, but that's half the game so that still doesn'r explain the kill as compared to other more Mason-like players who were also on the Moz wagon.

Just stawp. Mentioning "mason-like" players is bad. Scum should not be given clues as to who the masons are. If they get clues they can start offing the masons which is bad. IMHO we have gotten lucky so far in that no masons have died.

In order to find the scum we generally need to look at people who don't want to talk about other players because then they have to have a read on them. In contrast masons will try to look as if they are hunting their partners even voting them occasionally to keep up appearances as to not have to put the mason team.

The scumteam and Mason team are likely going to both have insider knowledge and both will be defensive it is a matter of why they do what they do to find which.

7 Vanilla Townies, 3 Masons, 3 Mafiosi
4 VTs have died.

Making it 3 VTs 3 Masons 3 Mafiosi
Even if we mislynch today (God I hope not)
Then we have one or two VTs remaining and 3 or 2 masons left respectively.

At that point it would be LyLO.

So today if we don't lynch a scum we are in a world of hurt and I would like to make sure that situation doesn't happen tomorrow.

By pushing CommanMick and Fitz we can see what is going on.

Boo..This post reeks of buddying. Why the fuck would I care about looking Town? I am Town. That is all I need.

Moz reads ?

I don't like how ConMickMan and Fitz both have to re-evaluate. Seems like Moz is a planned mislynch of ConMickMan/Fitz but then because I pointed out they are hunting they have to readjust.

mod: Do scum have daychat?

Prod received. Will get to this today, got caught up with Boston sports yesterday

You in the Boston area LUV?

That supah bowl was wicked pissah. I'll be at the parade tomorrah

I thought about going today but fighting crowds and shit weather changed that.

Oh look it is Tuesday. Look at what comes before Tuesday. Monday. Who promised reads? Fitz. Who didn't provide them? Fitz. Who is scum? Fitz.

Fine, we'll just lynch Fitz and I'll do the thing Day 3.

Or you can provide reasons now.

There's masons VTs and mafia. That's it. There is no "thing" you can do today except provide reasons. Since ya know Day 3 is today.

Or if it's such an auto win you can do it now? I like those. Autowins are awesome However you're either VT Mason or Mafia. None of those are autowin.

Let's assume worse case scenario we lynch VT (because very unlikely a mason or mafia gets lynched today the voting structure is the same). As much as I want a mafia lynched based on how I'm seeing people respond (like Fitz) I'm thinking more than likely the result is a VT would be lynched.

Scum kill a VT (probably me) or a mason.
Then we are in mylo. In which we rush the no lynch vote so scum can't mason hunt. There is no way that a mass claim is beneficial in mylo because mafia can't CC and the only thing that nets us is a dead mason. So rush to no lynch scum shoot again
Then we have 4 town and 3 scum and start typical lylo procedures including mass claim.


Please explain how we avoid this scenario. I'd love an instant win.

I'm here.

Listen, Hawk is town for how he handled the BBT push earlier and for a very specific reason.

King is scum, I am positive he is.

If you are so positive King is scum why are you moving off of Fitz and onto moz? Neither of those are King and I am still missing reasons.

Aren't you guys the least bit concerned we had Fitz who was at L-1 til Uzi moved off?

Are scum deliberately trying to no lynch this?

btw i tried reading the game to see if fitz/emp made sense as masons and tried to find their recruitment but no one makes sense

so if scum decide to CC the masonry WE STILL WIN

literally our masonry is uncc'able since moz claimed vt

Numb nuts no scum would CC the masonry here as it is auto loss for scum if they do lolol.

This reads like trying to bait out the masonry to claim it is horrible.

My brain says MathBlade. Don't think it's Giga. I'll accept defeat if Giga is scum.

Math in his ISO almost completely ignores countless attempts to explain who the masonry is and approach the game at a reasonable pace as VT and focus on Moz King and at the time Fitz. He hard tunnels fitz and CMM
gives up on CMM who arguably if he truly didn't read as a mason looked more scummy than fitz. MB completely ignores the idea that three town players are masonry and one player (moz) claimed VT and presses hard on fitz instead of Moz (God I hate that we didn't hit Moz faster and it's all my fault...)

Everything mathblade did that day eventually led to fitz's mislynch so yeah math is scum with king. Can we just get this over with. I've run out or energy to go over the game with a fine tooth comb when this is what my head is telling me. if someone wants to make the case why giga is scum go ahead and do someone but I am certain who scum is and if we lose because of it well fuck I'm sorry.

[Hawk]

lol Good game guys. I saw the mod confirm and was like No way that's real play this game like you didn't see that shit. The night kills are the only thing that kept messing with my head. What about Boring scared you? WHY DID YOU KILL GRENDEL?!?! Like Uzi or me Was a much better kill at that point I think lol.

[Hawk]

Also Giga you were like the best replace in ever by the way. Obvtown plus quick easy game logic made the last three days so much easier on me. Thank you.

Pedit: I don't think you played d1 poorly Grey I do think in hindsight the play was easy to scumread.

[Hawk]

Pedit: I don't think you played d1 poorly Grey I do think in hindsight the play was easy to scumread.

That means I played poorly.

Good scum play doesn't stand out on review.

I don't think so. It's almost impossible for your Scum play not to become obvious the longer the game goes on. Especially in a setup without protectives without protective obvious town play that leads to mislynches looks more and more suspicious because you are still alive.

I think your play was fine Grey. It had me fooled for a few days that you might be VT. Made me more okay lynching Fitz. In hindsight I really should have taken more charge at some point cause we could have and should have lynched Moz way sooner.

[Hawk]

I think your play was fine Grey.

In fact, his play was pretty good, which made the replace out a shame. Look out at how he stood with Alisae, and most people were swaying towards grey. Obviously, he had other stuff going on, but he was our strongest player.
Hey ho. Ironically, Mathblade was probably as good as grey, but it was a tough replace in.
Anyway, gg people!

This is true. I wasn't leaning MB until after we had misLynched and MB had refused to see what I had seen about masonry. Like my biggest issue with him the farther the game went was that I couldn't sort his one post where he talks about 3 Masons 3 scum 3 vt and then says we need to pressure fitz and CMM... like uhhh wut?