Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

[TwoFace]

So if we lynch through Naomi alisae and AA that should be game

Scumclaim IMO.
VOTE: Flubbernugget

I'll keep reading but so far I don't get how this is a scum claim. I agree with 2/3 of this list as possible scum.

[TwoFace]

Note how he doesn't say which side wins.

That's stupid

[TwoFace]

Okay so.. this assumes that 100% of Reds was defending me day one. While RD was defending me so was the following people; Human Sequencer, Gamma, Gin, Alisae and krylea

I was referring to dashie. It doesn't assume anything else.

[TwoFace]

So in other words, you have no clue why my slip was even a slip so you vote for me instead of the person KNOWS ABOUT THE DAYCHAT STATUS OF THIS GAME

She knows the day chat status of the game?

We haven't had an encryptor flip or host telling us otherwise?

Her earlier post implied she did.

[TwoFace]

Note how he doesn't say which side wins.

That's stupid

No it isn't. It's a scumclaim because Flub doesn't care if they are town or not.

Meh you're not considering a person's point of view.

If flubb is town, his pov is those 3 contain the last 2 scum and town wins

[TwoFace]

If Flub is scum, he just narrowed down my potential scum pool by a lot actually. I doubt he would include scum in there.

And if he's town he's just given his top 3 scum reads.

[TwoFace]

About to get ready and head out for nye. Be safe everyone. Don't drink and drive

[TwoFace]

Also of note: AA is the neighborizer. This leads me to believe AA is most likely to be town. I've seen mafia recruiters before, but it's unlikely in AA's case.

Why is it unlikely?

[TwoFace]

VOTE: AA

[TwoFace]

Like none of those people make sense as recruits. Why not HS? Why wasn't flubber or gin?

Speaking of flubber why the fuck was he even being lynched.

[TwoFace]

ugh yeah I guess that makes sense

unvote

[TwoFace]

I'm voting you because you've been playing like oppertunistic scum, you discredited me, and you scumclaimed.

Okay TF explain this.

since the thread was locked I couldn't respond, but given the flip can you?

I already explained how he didn't scum claim, can you show me where he was oppertunistic? specific examples? Also where did he discredit you?

If Flub is scum, he just narrowed down my potential scum pool by a lot actually. I doubt he would include scum in there.

And if he's town he's just given his top 3 scum reads.

He didn't say if they were scum or not.

This I already explained earlier, he made that post based on his pov, if from his pov he is town, he didn't have to actually say if they were scum because that was implied

[TwoFace]

From PoE, the scum team had to be TF and Naomi. TF, care to respond?

care to respond to what? that you are using shitty poe?

i'm not scum so any poe that you use to says otherwise is crap

[TwoFace]

i'm sorry but Think Big and whoever else is in the neighborhood isn't cleared. Ya'll can put them lower on the list if you want but they certainly aren't clear. ThinkBig outing the neighborhood doesn't make him obv town either. Sure ya'll can disagree with me but he isn't clear.

I still think Naomi is a good lynch and given that flubber was town, Alisae makes a good lynch also but i want her to respond to my request for examples of opportunistic and discrediting.

[TwoFace]

What's the motivation for killing Gin over somebody like AA or I?

I was totally expecting you to die btw, that gin kill made no sense and i felt like you were the person making the most sense.

[TwoFace]

I'll give my reason and full analysis in the morning.

I can't wait for this btw.

[TwoFace]

I have scum read you since day 1 and I have not yet seen anything from you that makes me change my opinion. how is that confusing?

[TwoFace]

I didn't. you are misreading my post.

[TwoFace]

I am scum reading alisae for the flubber thing, not you

[TwoFace]

I agree with HS on this one, masons almost always look like scum to me because you spend more time talking in the qt and not in the game so neighbors should probably just make their posts public. no point in hiding anything now the cat is out of the bag

[TwoFace]

Yeah, I'd absolutely hardbus D1 and kill Gin over Gamma who is pretty much conftown at this point as scum.
Try again.

why is gamma pretty much conf. town?

[TwoFace]

nevermind, forgot his role claim

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Naomi-Tan

I haven't liked what I have seen from that slot. If either NT or TF is town, it's TF.

false, if naomi is town i'm still town.

[TwoFace]

No

I don't think he is confirmed town at all, but most likely town.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: Two-Face

I just worked out that no matter which one is confirmed TF will be a red here. given he has also pushed me all game and generally has been shading me all game.

Cause I think you're scum. Still do. You were afraid to push me earlier when it didn't seem like there was no support. I even believe you said you were afraid or something cause I called you out on it. Guess your fear went away huh?

[TwoFace]

Ah fuck, I forgot sk could have killed Ircher. That changes things.

But again, how likely is it?

I'm sticking to my gut on Naomi/TF.

Probably more likely actually. The nk suggests either both killed the same person or mafia probably tried to take grey out and was stopped.

SKs typically play like Vigs. Ircher seemed more appropriate for an SK

[TwoFace]

I'll elaborate on this more when I get a chance, but the exchanges between TF and NT reek with the smell of distancing/bussing

Damn you're dumb

[TwoFace]

@TB - your gut sucks

TwoFace agreeing with me so much and making so much sense is really creeping me out yo.
Did you forget who I was when I changed my avi or something?
Nah but seriously, I'm getting hardcore buddy vibes. Not sure if I should really be concerned yet.
At least you read gamma as conftown.

I think I did forget who you are

I don't read gamma as conftown, though I read them as prob town.

The only reason I backed off AA was because it was suggested that mafia killed ircher, but as I explained ircher was more likely an SK kill

VOTE: AA

[TwoFace]

oh shit I remember you now...

[TwoFace]

Unofficial Vote Count

1.Gamma Emerald
2.Naomi-Tan (2/4) - ThinkBig, Alisae
3.ThinkBig (Our new asphodel)
4.TwoFace (1/4) - Naomi
5.All Alone (1/4) - TF
6.Human Sequencer
7.Alisae

Not voting: Gamma, All Alone, Human Sequencer

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

fixed

although I could vote Alisae. his vote on me the previous day phase was terrible

[TwoFace]

why do you think ircher was more likely the mafia kill?

given the possibility that he could have been killed by the SK, that should have some sort of effect on you because you basically tr'd him because you thought mafia killed ircher and why would he kill somebody he neighbored.

[TwoFace]

that 2nd sentence is talking about AA btw.

[TwoFace]

interesing, didn't realize ircher hammered. yeah I guess they could have targeted each other but still since grey was outed cop, it's still possible they tried to take him out.

[TwoFace]

btw thanks for doing these unofficial vote counts. I haven't been able to read a single post the mod makes on my phone.

[TwoFace]

I suck at vca so i don't even try

[TwoFace]

why is tb confirmed townie?

[TwoFace]

Just read his posts bro. Do a meta dive and check out how he played as scum.

I've played a bit with TB, and I feel like he's finally found his footing and is towntelling like wow.

VOTE: Naomi
I'm fine with this being lynched now.

meh meta sucks

[TwoFace]

Stop being paranoid~

easier said than done

[TwoFace]

i'm good with a naomi lynch, but want to hear from gamma and AA first. Although I know AA will advocate for my lynch, probably why TB's reads are the way they are

[TwoFace]

That wasn't the hammer.

VOTE: naomi

[TwoFace]

well your order is wrong but the votes are right.

TB, HS, Alisae, TF

[TwoFace]

I knew this was not naomi's town game

[TwoFace]

ya'll can lynch me if you want. i'm not scum though.

i'm still waiting for this analysis from you but I guess we have to wait til tomorrow

[TwoFace]

Oh btw, I never took any Kills XD as I didnt know I was meant to.

what does this mean?

[TwoFace]

that's why I don't like replacements. It is easy to come in and act town. The fact that he won't even consider AA as possible scum is weird.

[TwoFace]

but traitors know who is on their team

[TwoFace]

I just checked the wiki, to be normal that is one of the requirements

[TwoFace]

I'm surprised Nexus approved this setup.

nexus doesn't approve anything, the designated approvers do.

normals are allowed to have 1 non normal, but that seems like a weird one to have

[TwoFace]

Well guess I'll reque now. If anyone wants to play with me again feel free to follow

i like playing with town you but I am about to go to disney so no mafia games until I come back.

though it's getting harder and harder to sign up when there's so many people I don't want to play with anymore

[TwoFace]

Most...

[TwoFace]

Mods busy.

So anyone think Naomi is telling the truth about not knowing who partners are? Personally I don't take the word of scum.

[TwoFace]

VOTE: think big

like this one better

[TwoFace]

i've got a busy weekend but as long as my wife doesn't catch me I can check in from my phone

[TwoFace]

What's town about unofficial VCs? Anyone can do those.

[TwoFace]

Yes, but would ThinkBig do those as scum? I doubt it.

Sure it's easy to say 'Well yeah anybody can do unofficial votecounts, its NAI at best' but anybody can do literally anything. It's about what's likely to come from a certain player from town or scum.

Well there is literally no town reason for tb to think I'm scum. That plus the posturing day one by outing the neighbors for some quick town cred makes me think scum.

There is literally no way he can think I'm scum given Naomi flipping traitor.

[TwoFace]

And by day one I obviously meant the previous day

[TwoFace]

Well there is literally no town reason for tb to think I'm scum.

Blatantly false. I scum read you for two reasons:

1. Process of elimination; and
2. Blatant buddying of flubber on day 3.

Speaking of blatantly false. Still waiting on your analysis you promised.

As for these.

1. Your POE is shit I already said this.
2. That's a blatant lie. I haven't buddies anyone. Thanks for scum claiming

[TwoFace]

So if we lynch through Naomi alisae and AA that should be game

Scumclaim IMO.
VOTE: Flubbernugget

I'll keep reading but so far I don't get how this is a scum claim. I agree with 2/3 of this list as possible scum.

Like none of those people make sense as recruits. Why not HS? Why wasn't flubber or gin?

Speaking of flubber why the fuck was he even being lynched.

This isn't buddying?

Absolutely not. Try harder scum. Also learn what buddying actually is before falsely accusing somebody of it

[TwoFace]

All alone is probably town.

No chance. Vote him or you're next

This is ew.

Me pushing on a scum read is ew?

Get the fuck out of here. If you're town stick to newbies ok?

[TwoFace]

I've got to run. Hopefully people will see TB is lying scum and vote him.

[TwoFace]

Naomi never voted TF once.

That's a lie

[TwoFace]

TwoFace is by far our best lynch today. My gambit solidified my town read on you. PoE, the scum is TF.

Be back in a few. Will finish reading when I get back.

Tb. Where is all this a analysis you supposedly had?

That's 2 lies you've told.

You can lynch me on your shitty ass poe but when I flip town you'll be exposed and your game is over. I'm not scum but of course you know that don't you...

[TwoFace]

Good for you. I'm town. Lynch TB

[TwoFace]

I'm saying after I flip town lynch him.

[TwoFace]

Ok bbl

[TwoFace]

If I was scum, I would have aimed to lynch AA yesterday, not Naomi.

I don't think that's true. That would be bad play. Gamma and AA would have ripped you to shreds. If you're scum, hard defending was the right play.

[TwoFace]

@Alisae
@TwoFace

If you guys lynch me, who will you vote for in LyLo when I flip town?

I honestly can't answer. Lylo is when everyone is ground zero and I do heavy reading and isos. I don't take lylo lightly

[TwoFace]

Eww the "If I was scum" arguement. Yeah I don't give a fuck of what you would have done.

What motivation does scum have of confirming a lynchbait slot as town?

From what I remember nobody really wanted to lynch AA outside of me. Maybe I'm misremembering but don't think so

[TwoFace]

I think we need to slow down and analyze everything. I really don't like having anyone at L1.

Speaking of slowing down. Where's that analysis you promised yesterday? I've asked for it 3 times now.

Also remember you said it's me or nt. If one flips town the other is scum? How'd you flip that to if one is scum, the other must be also? Explain but explain AFTER you post that analysis. Unless you actually lied about having it. Be a man and admit it.

[TwoFace]

From what I remember nobody really wanted to lynch AA outside of me. Maybe I'm misremembering but don't think so

And Gin and Alisae.

Can't really take gin serious. Nobody is going to policy lynch outside of day 1. Alisae was more likely to be lynched over AA imo.

I was pushing on AA and nobody was interested so you can't call him lynchbait.

[TwoFace]

We had 7 alive yesterday. 5 town and 2 scum. By mislynching All Alone, I could have all but won the game yesterday as scum. Today would have been LyLo had we lynched AA. Reverse psychology doesn't make sense from a scum perspective.

If you're scum though you probably didn't know NT was traitor. Typical traitor knows maf, maf doesn't know traitor so for all we know you lynching anyone achieved the same goal. You keyed on me and NT who are the easiest to attack imo. at least you thought I would be. I love when people think I'm going to be an easy lynch. I make you do the work. Work which you have yet to do.

You will have to work hard to mislynch me

[TwoFace]

AA, flubber, and my slot are/were easy mislynch targets for scum.

If you believed this why did you try to use my surprise he got lynched against me?

Flubber - Gamma, Alisae, HS, Gin , AA

That's who voted lynchbait

Your "poe" somehow puts me as scum though.

If I'm scum, flubber wasn't mislynch target for scum.

See why I think you're scum? If you're town you have a shitty thought process. What you say and do don't match.


I'm done for the night. Will finish catching up later.

[TwoFace]

Sorry, I don't really see anything I'd even call decent a analysis from you TB.
If you're scum, of course you'd agree with it. Why wouldn't you go with the crowd and push people outside? That's how you buddy...
Your analysis about AA was proven false cause of the SK. Granted it's moot now cause AA wasn't scum but if you're scum, you could have been using inside knowledge.

Mybad on the last part. I obviously misread. That's why I hate falling behind on my phone.

Ok NOW I'm going to bed.

[TwoFace]

TF's 445 is ew. Does anyone notice how TF tunnels anyone who dares to scum read him?

Read my sig. I'm a very defensive player, especially when people can't even come up with good reasons for scum reading me or when they lie about me. Kind of like you did...

[TwoFace]

Ugh. Ok now... bed

[TwoFace]

i doubt tf is scum simply because of the sheer amount of paranoia town is in and how chaotic everybody is. i highly doubt tf would be capable of manufacturing that situation. he's a lynch to consider tomorrow.

Not saying I agree with Alisae, but this post goes right along with one of the posts you called disgusting.

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, I re-read your ISO and believe I made a mistake with you. I do sincerely apologize.

I appreciate that. It's actually refreshing since people on this site rarely apologize for anything

[TwoFace]

I really don't think HS is scum. My gut still says TB here.

Gotta tke my daughter to UC so today's going to suck.

[TwoFace]

I don't see any reason to hammer right now. I'd rather TB over alisae still but he did make some good points. I'm reminded when alisae voted me for some scumtell that he said was 100% but hopped off when an easier wagon came about.

I'd like to hear more from gamma, I don't really understand why he's scum reading me

[TwoFace]

TB, I'm town. Who are you voting at Lylo?

This question really serves no purpose. Nobody should be going into lylo with preconceived opinions.

Nobody really should be giving any lynch preferences going into lylo for obvious reasons

[TwoFace]

HS, you wanna know something cute.
TF would genuinely be the best lynch today. Do you want to know why?
Lynchbait is the best lynch before Lylo.

Da fuck is this garbage

[TwoFace]

HS, you wanna know something cute.
TF would genuinely be the best lynch today. Do you want to know why?
Lynchbait is the best lynch before Lylo.

Then why is your vote still on HS?

This feels like baiting. I have one vote on me and tb seems to be waiting for another so he can quick hammer.

[TwoFace]

TB, I'm town. Who are you voting at Lylo?

Not sure yet. If you're town, I'll re-evaluate both HS and TF and make a rational and logical decision from those two.

I surely hope your decision is rational and logical, because my vote will be on TF and you'll be the tiebreaker.

[TwoFace]

TF Tb's vote is on me.
HS and TB are voting me.

Yes I know. But that post feels like he's trying to get you to vote me with gamma. So he can hammer.

Pretty sure I'm voting TB

[TwoFace]

HS. I can't remember. Are you an alt or you new to this site?

[TwoFace]

I'm new. I've never played Mafia before what's on my wiki.
Why do you ask?

Trying to see your experience before answering your question.

I think it's less likely you bussed. It's not completely out of the realm of possibility, but based on your lack of experience I'd say probably not.

[TwoFace]

Well the fact you're aware of hard busses now changes everything. Still unlikely but more probable

[TwoFace]

I pretty much just implied he's an idiot in case you can't pick up the subtext.
Feel free to self hammer, you've implied it like twice now and each time you've gotten no townpoints whatsoever, maybe you'll get towncred for it after the lynch?

I'm not an idiot thanks

[TwoFace]

HS, TB and Alisae all know Alisae is scum, and it only takes 3 to lynch.
Why isn't Alisae lynched yet???????

What's the rush?

[TwoFace]

Well I want it over also. But think it ends with TB

[TwoFace]

lolwat?

We aren't lynching gamma.

[TwoFace]

I'm a VT

[TwoFace]

I was thinking everyone suggest an order then I decide based on what I think is best

In all honesty, it might be better if I get lynched first. The way that TF has been tunneling on me this DP and last DP may cause us to loose at LyLo.

I already said if I make it to lylo, everyone is back at ground zero. I do tons of rereading before voting.

[TwoFace]

Ok now the pointless mass claim is over, can we lynch TB?

[TwoFace]

I sure hope whatever happens ends the game cause I'm leaving for Disney Sunday and this weekend will be busy doing last minute errands/kids sports.

[TwoFace]

Do you really think scum would suggest lynching gamma?

[TwoFace]

UNVOTE:

Nah let's not end the day yet.

[TwoFace]

Okay TF, what would you get out of the day?

If gamma is most likely dead. Final reads and thoughts would be helpful to me

[TwoFace]

This is probably game over anyway. If TB wants to go ahead and end it, I'm fine with that.

VOTE: TB

Back to L-1

[TwoFace]

UNVOTE:

Wait you're voting him and think he's town?

[TwoFace]

Kinda got fucked by dashie claiming Miller. That was just bad play. Naomi saying she didn't know her partners hurt me also. The fact I lasted this long surprised me. I should have been dead much sooner.

Kinda sucks the holidays also factored into it.

Ahh well. GG everyone. @mod thanks for modding but I couldn't read a single post you made from my phone.

P.edit - my scum game is exactly like my town game. I stay true to myself and push the things I find scummy

[TwoFace]

mvp is undoubtedly grey.

Nah. Scum wouldn't have been lynched day 1 if it wasn't for the horrible miller claim and that had nothing to do with grey. He and ircher spewed horrible untruths and bad advice this game. The fact they were town tells me they are actually terrible players who just got lucky

[TwoFace]

But seriously. Who fake claims Miller to cast shade on the one thing that would basically make sense setup wise? I really wish I knew what dashie was thinking. After she got lynched I knew no matter what I did, no way I could win not being on her lynch.

Town just had to go down the line to hit scum.

[TwoFace]

dashie, you're probably the best player in this game, what was wrong with my play this game, and how can i improve in the future?

Your play was fine.

[TwoFace]

next time don't give town information that hurts your faction.

the moment you said you didn't know your partners and the mod confirmed that was true, I was dead.

had you not said anything, people would have assumed this was the normal version of traitor and your vote on me may have bought me just enough to possible survive.

[TwoFace]

also don't give up until you are sure you are lynched. claiming scum at L-1 wasn't good and I had no choice but to hammer

[TwoFace]

I think the setup was fine actually. scum lost cause scum didn't play optimally and town got lucky

p.edit - ok? check yourself. hell even if you were hammered, you didn't have to say anything. as scum give town little to no info

[TwoFace]

I never once considered the possibility of having a traitor. I can't remember if I have ever played with a traitor on this site before.

[TwoFace]

I don't blame jordan for anything, he was asked a question and he answered it. The question probably wouldn't have been asked had naomi not said anything though.

[TwoFace]

She hasn't a bad game but hands down she's the best player in the player list.

[TwoFace]

She played*

[TwoFace]

And shitty players get lucky and end the game with I nflated egos...

[TwoFace]

Nah it wasn't. You're a player I'll be avoiding that's for sure.

[TwoFace]

I made the decision to avoid playing with you before dashie got lynched.

[TwoFace]

You and grey

[TwoFace]

Again I didn't want to play with either of you before dashie was lynched. But whatever makes you sleep at night I guess.

[TwoFace]

Dashie played like shit. She got herself lynched, claiming Miller and discrediting the cop is never a good idea on any level.

But hey, remember I made that comment about people getting lucky and acting arrogant? Look in the mirror. That's you

You got lucky, you didn't catch her with any sort of skill

[TwoFace]

And on that note. Good riddance troll

[TwoFace]

btw Uninformed Traitor is BULLSHIT. It completely removes the chance for scumhunting based on the Traitor's actions.

Agree with this

[TwoFace]

btw Uninformed Traitor is BULLSHIT. It completely removes the chance for scumhunting based on the Traitor's actions.

That bullshit is offset by the fact there were two sources of scum NK's in a mini.

And? Lots of minis have had 2 scum factions.

More common is 3 maf vs 1 sk

Traitor who doesn't know who scum is actually hurts scum not help. So it really tips balance toward town. Had traitor known who scum was it would be fairly balanced.

[TwoFace]

The whole idea of a traitor is to help mafia without actually being able to communicate with them. That's why the normal variant has the traitor know who scum is.

Remove the knowledge of who scum is, a traitor is flying blind.

It's literally against the intended purpose of the role.

That has nothing to do with losing and everything to do with common sense and the intended purpose of a traitor role.

[TwoFace]

The other variation I've seen is mafia knows traitor.

I've never seen where neither know who the other is.

I'm not arguing. I'm discussing.

[TwoFace]

who am i kidding of course i will
so you're trying to tell me you'd rather a vt in the game you have to mislynch over a traitor who can endgame with you?
how is a traitor damaging to the scumteam over a vt?

I'm saying every time I've see a traitor, the traitor either knows who mafia is or mafia knows who the traitor i

In this case, the traitor can't help scum and scum can lynch traitor without knowing.

It's the first in 7 years I've seen it, so yes to me regardless of what side I was on this game, I don't like it.

Gamma agrees and he wasn't even scum. So I'm not the only one.

If you want to say I'm mad cause we lost, that's fine. The only thing I'm mad at is dashie for the stupid claim. Naomi played well considering

[TwoFace]

[TwoFace]

Nobody is misbehaving

[TwoFace]

and btw who the fuck are you to tell anyone what we can and can't discuss. Lots of games at the end people talk about the setup and if it is balanced or not. We can't change what has happened but we certainly can share our opinions, and I never shy away from that.

[TwoFace]

learn the difference between angry and general discussion.

I already said the only thing I am mad about is dashie's bad play. I disagree with the way the mod used traitor but I am not angry about it.

nobody is shitting on anyone, well people are giving me shit but that's ok I am used to it by now. One of the downsides to speaking your mind

[TwoFace]

but that's the thing. you wouldn't have been able to shoot.

you were basically a mafia survivor

[TwoFace]

I'm not saying a VT is better. I'm saying an informed traitor is better since I've never in my life seen an uninformed traitor.

[TwoFace]

That being said, this game could have ended completely different if

A. Dashie didn't go after the cop like she did and claimed Miller

Or

B. Naomi didn't tell town she didn't know who mafia was.

If town thought she new who mafia was, her vote on me would have given me at least til lylo.

[TwoFace]

Anyway thanks for running the game.