Donald Trump

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Post Post #5577  (isolation #400)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:17 pm

In post 5575, karnos wrote:
In post 5573, Psyche wrote:
In post 5572, karnos wrote:I don't think I have seen a single real argument against his policy stance

must not be very well-read


PLEASE SHOW ME OH GREAT AND SMART ONE.

why does someone always have to babysit you
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Post Post #5579  (isolation #401)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:23 pm

have you ever considered maybe googling "policy arguments against trump"
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Post Post #5580  (isolation #402)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:24 pm

don't even seem to know what "moving the goalposts" means
bland pseudointellectualism
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Post Post #5584  (isolation #403)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:29 pm

have you heard the sentence "a border wall would be really expensive"
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Post Post #5586  (isolation #404)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:30 pm

like, this entire campaign?
have you ever heard an argument for abortion rights?
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Post Post #5587  (isolation #405)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:31 pm

how about the idea that lowering taxes could raise the deficit?
is this a policy argument against donald trump that's not ad hominen you only read today?
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Post Post #5594  (isolation #406)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:39 pm

In post 5588, karnos wrote:
In post 5587, Psyche wrote:how about the idea that lowering taxes could raise the deficit?
is this a policy argument against donald trump that's not ad hominen you only read today?


Arguments exist, but I haven't read them. Every time Trump is discussed, the attacks go for the throat "NO HE IS EVIL BIGOT" "RACIST!" "MISOGONIST RAPIST!"

My point was, maybe if those arguments were actually used, instead of stupid ad-hominum arguments, Trump voters could potentially be encourage to vote elsewhere.


here's the thing though
a presidential election is about more than a policy platform
when someone says you shouldn't vote for a candidate because they're a bad person, they aren't committing a logical fallacy, they're not veering off-topic
the position being debated is precisely whether that person would do a good job as president
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Post Post #5595  (isolation #407)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:40 pm

In post 5592, karnos wrote:
In post 5584, Psyche wrote:have you heard the sentence "a border wall would be really expensive"


It really wouldn't be.

The interesting thing is, if you actually understand economic theory, the cost of a larger project like that which mostly involves low-skill labor is that the majority of the money is going to workers who might otherwise be collecting welfare, people who will spend the money on basic needs quickly, spurring the economy. I don't know exactly what Donald's plan is, but I'd much rather pay people to work on infrastructure improvements than just hand them welfare.

I mean, I haven't looked at the numbers about the wall. I'm just pointing out an argument I've seen. Deporting illegal immigrants already here will probably cost much more.
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Post Post #5600  (isolation #408)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:12 pm

i will admit that it's not all that simple
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Post Post #5602  (isolation #409)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:17 pm

a little pedantic don't you think
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Post Post #5607  (isolation #410)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:26 pm

there's a lot in his platform that's not terrible
i am optimistic that he will be reagan-level bad
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Post Post #5608  (isolation #411)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:27 pm

In post 5606, Shiro wrote:Like this whole KKK was for Trump argument is moronic.

That's because it's a straw man.
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Post Post #5609  (isolation #412)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:37 pm

Well, let me rephrase that. The function of pointing out Donald Trump's white nationalist support is to substantiate the claim that his presidency would serve white nationalist interests. I think that's a pretty solid inference, don't you? The alternative explanation for his white nationalist support is that they're mistaken about what he stands for, but that's when you get into a discussion about his plans for and attitudes about immigrants/refugees, criminal justice reform, Black Lives Matter, political correctness, and so forth. Taken by itself, "Donald Trump is supported by the KKK" is not enough, but no one takes it by itself. They go on to reason about why Donald Trump is supported by the KKK.

I feel like the most damning inference you can make from the fact that Clinton was backed by the Saudis is that she was more likely to protect their interests than Trump. Which also should matter when picking a president, shouldn't it? So I don't think in either case the argument form is moronic.
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Post Post #5612  (isolation #413)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:40 pm

^ see, that is actually moronic
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Post Post #5615  (isolation #414)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:42 pm

Like, there is a lot more you can infer that matters from the sincere and well-informed support of Donald Trump by white nationalists than you can from David Duke's preference for steak.
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Post Post #5635  (isolation #415)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 4:45 pm

In post 5629, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 5612, Psyche wrote:^ see, that is actually moronic


Just because you aren't bright enough to get the metaphor doesn't mean the metaphor itself is flawed.

that's not the reason
as i've already explained

In post 5630, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 5615, Psyche wrote:Like, there is a lot more you can infer that matters from the sincere and well-informed support of Donald Trump by white nationalists than you can from David Duke's preference for steak.


I thought liberals hated assumptions about a person based on things beyond that person's control.

not quite
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Post Post #5640  (isolation #416)  » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:58 pm

too long and lacks formatting
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Post Post #5672  (isolation #417)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:10 am

i think garmr makes an ok point about trump's kkk support
even if his presidency will comparatively serve their interests, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be bad for america
just like even if Hillary presidency would comparatively serve a black hate froup's interests, it wouldn't necessarily mean her presidency would be bad for america
this conversation would be a lot more robust if it just went ahead and actually focused on the candidates actual platforms/character and how they would contribute to a more racist society
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Post Post #5693  (isolation #418)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:11 am

In post 5682, Shiro wrote:Can someone give me the list of basic human rights Trump is striping away from people?

It depends, but I'll reference this post in the future as it happens.
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Post Post #5694  (isolation #419)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:13 am

There were always people on both sides likely to temper tantrum if their side lost. These protests don't seem to reflect on Clinton supporters specifically.
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Post Post #5726  (isolation #420)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:06 pm

electoral votes should be distributed proportionally instead of winner takes all
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Post Post #5739  (isolation #421)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:49 pm

you're reading these discussions with a lot of bias, tso
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Post Post #5741  (isolation #422)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:52 pm

In post 5729, T S O wrote:And right on cue there are people moaning about the electoral college. I too love systems that have worked for decades until they don't work out well for my candidate.

we moaned about the electoral college when we were confident she'd win, too
and it's not all we're talking about concerning why hillary lost; in fact, it's only come up very recently in this thread
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Post Post #5743  (isolation #423)  » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:55 pm

the reason no one takes you seriously tso is because you post like you don't know how to read
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Post Post #5770  (isolation #424)  » Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:54 am

bet you relations get cold/aggressive within a year
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Post Post #5773  (isolation #425)  » Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:57 am

neh
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Post Post #5822  (isolation #426)  » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:38 am

lol
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Post Post #5832  (isolation #427)  » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:58 am

lol
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Post Post #5860  (isolation #428)  » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:24 am

you should know by now accountant that all the statistics are wrong
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Post Post #5864  (isolation #429)  » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:48 am

In post 5861, Davsto wrote:especially those of professionals

i mean they get paid for those statistics, how can you trust that!!!

sry davsto i wasn't being sarcastic
you may not know this but donald trump is president-elect
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Post Post #5913  (isolation #430)  » Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:52 pm

In post 5866, Kublai Khan wrote:Today I learned that the words "statistics" and "polls" are interchangeable.

in a lot of circumstances they are!
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Post Post #5947  (isolation #431)  » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:30 pm

pretty disgusting worldview
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Post Post #5951  (isolation #432)  » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:47 pm

seems like a chicken/egg thing
intolerance maybe be caused rather than the cause
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Post Post #5953  (isolation #433)  » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:14 pm

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexkantrowitz ... lqONXEXbmZ

yknow, for all his talk, his immigration policy as described sounds a lot like obama's current one
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Post Post #5956  (isolation #434)  » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:20 pm

are you sure that is the question
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Post Post #5984  (isolation #435)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:07 am

In post 5982, Shiro wrote:
In post 5980, Shaziro wrote:The argument is usually that Jesus, the prophet of Christianity, was a peaceful hippy guy, while Mohammad was a violent warlord with a child bride who treated women like cattle. Now, this ignores the Old Testament in which God, among other things, drowned all of humanity and destroyed two cities for being gay and/or promiscuous.


Yeah, jesus did the whole, die for your sins so we don't have to be cruel like the old testament kinda deal. He basically retconed everything.

not really so simple
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Post Post #5985  (isolation #436)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:09 am

really don't think your insight into either of these religions appreciates their subtleties
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Post Post #5995  (isolation #437)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:39 am

the sentiment behind the crusades, inquisition, religious wars, and more societal religion-driven violence perpetuated in the west wouldn't have been possible without the new testament's themes of evangelism and purity testing, jesus explicitly says in the gospels that he didn't come to "retcon" the whole thing, and the violence justified with religious fervor from that tradition was in most senses worse and more intense after the new testament than before

all the arguments for using a religious test against islamic immigrants are arguments that can be applied against christian ones and in both cases are poorly reasoned out and rooted in naive theology
instead of making theological arguments you don't know very much about and are hard to substantiate anyway,

you should just go ahead and make clear that it's people inclined to specific cultural practices rather than broad religious traditions you want to exclude from immigration
but then, why ask someone's religion to do this filtering instead of asking them how they relate with concepts like freedom, tolerance and human rights? why filter muslims instead of filtering subscribers to rape culture, honor killings, cultural separatism and so on?

the reason people call you an islamophobe is because you're disinclined to appreciate subtleties like these
makes it seem like you're more about keeping society homogenous than about keeping it safe and free, like violence perpetrated by some groups perturbs you less than violence perpetuated by others
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Post Post #6001  (isolation #438)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:44 am

In post 5996, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Psyche you know very little and try to act like you know a lot.

guess we have that in common huh
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Post Post #6004  (isolation #439)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:50 am

so, i'l repeat myself

the sentiment behind the crusades, inquisition, religious wars, and more societal religion-driven violence perpetuated in the west wouldn't have been possible without the new testament's themes of evangelism and purity testing, jesus explicitly says in the gospels that he didn't come to "retcon" the whole thing, and the violence justified with religious fervor from that tradition was in most senses worse and more intense after the new testament than before

all the arguments for using a religious test against islamic immigrants are arguments that can be applied against christian ones and in both cases are poorly reasoned out and rooted in naive theology
instead of making theological arguments you don't know very much about and are hard to substantiate anyway,

you should just go ahead and make clear that it's people inclined to specific cultural practices rather than broad religious traditions you want to exclude from immigration
but then, why ask someone's religion to do this filtering instead of asking them how they relate with concepts like freedom, tolerance and human rights? why filter muslims instead of filtering subscribers to rape culture, honor killings, cultural separatism and so on?

the reason people call you an islamophobe is because you're disinclined to appreciate subtleties like these
makes it seem like you're more about keeping society homogenous than about keeping it safe and free, like violence perpetrated by some groups perturbs you less than violence perpetuated by others
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Post Post #6005  (isolation #440)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:53 am

In post 6000, Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:However, those who DO take their book seriously (you can call them "religious" or "extremists" or whatever) are much much more prone to violence than people who take Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc seriously.

also, there's a lot of subjectivity in sorting who's taking their religion seriously or not
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Post Post #6008  (isolation #441)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:09 am

you're dodging it

why ask someone's religion to do this filtering instead of asking them how they relate with concepts like freedom, tolerance and human rights? why filter muslims instead of filtering subscribers to rape culture, honor killings, cultural separatism and so on?

the reason people call you an islamophobe is because you're disinclined to appreciate subtleties like these
makes it seem like you're more about keeping society homogenous than about keeping it safe and free, like violence perpetrated by some groups perturbs you less than violence perpetuated by others
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Post Post #6009  (isolation #442)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:10 am

In post 6006, Shiro wrote:Also crusades weren't to convert but to retake the Holy lands, Spain and the 2ns see.

who said the crusades were for converting
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Post Post #6013  (isolation #443)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:16 am

In post 6006, Shiro wrote:The scripture itself doesn't say, go kill infidels wherever you find them nor that dying for God in jihad bypasses purgatory and put you in heaven.

enough people interpreted it that way

The thing with Islam is that it is a culture. It advocates one caliphate under one God. Muslims that don't stand by that in all reality aren't really Muslims.

Not o. Islam mate. It says right in the book, you don't jihad then you are a hypocrite
Why do you think isis kills other Muslims as well. Isis isn't hijacking Islam, isis is Islam in its purest form.


like i've said, i really don't think your insight into either of these religions appreciates their subtleties

but let me focus - it seems like you reject the possibility that people can disagree about the meaning of a religious text and still be sincere and committed adherents to the religion

given that's true, do you hold christians to the same standard? which denomination is the "true" christian way, and what should i start calling those who don't follow it?
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Post Post #6014  (isolation #444)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:18 am

In post 6011, Shiro wrote:
In post 6009, Psyche wrote:
In post 6006, Shiro wrote:Also crusades weren't to convert but to retake the Holy lands, Spain and the 2ns see.

who said the crusades were for converting


I thought Accountant did cause that was the topic, religious violence for conversion which is pretty unique to Islam. #As in supported by text)

religious violence for conversion is not unique to islam
obviously
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Post Post #6016  (isolation #445)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:36 am

In post 6008, Psyche wrote:you're dodging it

why ask someone's religion to do this filtering instead of asking them how they relate with concepts like freedom, tolerance and human rights? why filter muslims instead of filtering subscribers to rape culture, honor killings, cultural separatism and so on?

the reason people call you an islamophobe is because you're disinclined to appreciate subtleties like these
makes it seem like you're more about keeping society homogenous than about keeping it safe and free, like violence perpetrated by some groups perturbs you less than violence perpetuated by others

literally the most important line of conversation here
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Post Post #6018  (isolation #446)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:46 am

Like, it seems like a pretty easy compromise with the left that achieves exactly what you want. There are still some free speech issues, but it would much better odds to survive strict scrutiny. Filter adherents to terrible cultural practices, but not with religious or geographic tests. The "good" muslims/middle-easterners you admit exist can still get in, and the rest will kept out. What's the problem? And more importantly, why does this have to be proposed in the first place? If your passion for this issue is driven by sincere concern about your country's safety, why are we talking about muslims instead of rapists, murderers and terrorists?
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Post Post #6020  (isolation #447)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:49 am

but these people are trying to leave countries of shariah law
the connect is more tenuous than you imply
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Post Post #6024  (isolation #448)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:57 am

See, garmr, I know that you're referring not to the text but to a specific subset of people who profess to follow it. That's why I said "you should just go ahead and make clear that it's people inclined to specific cultural practices rather than broad religious traditions you want to exclude from immigration".
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Post Post #6025  (isolation #449)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:59 am

In post 6023, Garmr wrote:
In post 6020, Psyche wrote:but these people are trying to leave countries of shariah law
the connect is more tenuous than you imply

I think people are leaving those countries because of the war between the sunni and shia not shariah law.

i do agree there's a connect,
i'm just saying there are reasons it seems clearly not at all a sure thing
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Post Post #6028  (isolation #450)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:07 am

In post 6024, Psyche wrote:See, garmr, I know that you're referring not to the text but to a specific subset of people who profess to follow it. That's why I said "you should just go ahead and make clear that it's people inclined to specific cultural practices rather than broad religious traditions you want to exclude from immigration".

And the reason I encourage this shift is so that we can either A) talk about the cultural practices/crimes you oppose and consider why we aren't banning based on subscription to those, or B) talk about why religion matters irrespective of the cultural practices a particular devotee subscribes to

I know a lot of people don't want a lot of muslims in their country not because those muslims commit crimes/harms, but because they want to keep their country a decisively christian-cultured country.

I want to see you guys either embrace this position (so we can talk about that instead of about muslim criminality),
or outright reject it (allowing us to stop talking about religion and start talking about how we can filter by values/criminality instead of religion)
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Post Post #6029  (isolation #451)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:08 am

In post 6018, Psyche wrote:Like, it seems like a pretty easy compromise with the left that achieves exactly what you want. There are still some free speech issues, but it would much better odds to survive strict scrutiny. Filter adherents to terrible cultural practices, but not with religious or geographic tests. The "good" muslims/middle-easterners you admit exist can still get in, and the rest will kept out. What's the problem? And more importantly, why does this have to be proposed in the first place? If your passion for this issue is driven by sincere concern about your country's safety, why are we talking about muslims instead of rapists, murderers and terrorists?


why is there no one on the other side who will answer this
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Post Post #6033  (isolation #452)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:38 am

In post 6030, Shiro wrote:I am at work and I take a bit to answer chill :p

Because, how do you filter cultural practices, if not by country and religion?

Because convicted rapist,murderers and terrorists aren't allowed in already. Non convicted ones, well, you have no way of knowing.

What if you interviewed him.
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Post Post #6052  (isolation #453)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:54 pm

sure it was founded on christianity but it was also founded on religious freedom and other pluralist values
what "makes america great" stems from lots of facts
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Post Post #6055  (isolation #454)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:03 pm

In post 6053, Sudo_Nym wrote:The country was also founded partially on slavery. Does "what makes America great" stem from this fact as well?

more than most would like to say tbh
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Post Post #6056  (isolation #455)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:07 pm

In post 6054, Titus wrote:The country wasn't founded on slavery. It was an evil the founders accepted at the time.

Disagree. Lots of slaveowners were founders, the practice was codified into our constitution, and the nation's economy strongly depended on the practice until it ended.
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Post Post #6059  (isolation #456)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:31 pm

why filter by religion instead of, say, respect for women, pluralism, and whatnot
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Post Post #6060  (isolation #457)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:32 pm

if you're really in this discussion to make clear the value for your view, why not answer the questions that actually matter
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Post Post #6066  (isolation #458)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:04 pm

gosh this conversation is getting dumb
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Post Post #6067  (isolation #459)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:07 pm

PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A MUSLIM IMMIGRANT BAN:

Why not filter adherents to terrible cultural practices, but not using religious or geographic tests? The "good" muslims/middle-easterners you admit exist can still get in, and the rest will kept out. Like, it seems like a pretty easy compromise with the left that achieves exactly what you want. There are still some free speech issues, but it would much better odds to survive strict scrutiny.

What's the problem with this idea? And also importantly, why does this have to be proposed in the first place? If your passion for this issue is driven by sincere concern about your country's safety, why are we talking about banning muslims instead of about banning rapists, murderers and terrorists?
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Post Post #6073  (isolation #460)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:41 pm

In post 6069, Shiro wrote:I ansewred, You said, you can interview them and I said, you can lie, a passport cannot.

but a passport isn't a reliable indicator either
most people in the middle east aren't rapists, and most rapists don't live in the middle east
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Post Post #6074  (isolation #461)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:42 pm

In post 6072, Shiro wrote:Irish slavery was a thing.

wrong
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Post Post #6075  (isolation #462)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:44 pm

ugh what bullshit
where the hell did you learn history
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Post Post #6076  (isolation #463)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:45 pm

"the reason Ameirca had mostly black slaves is because Africa was the main slave exporter"
oh wow i wonder why
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Post Post #6078  (isolation #464)  » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:11 pm

that too i spose
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Post Post #6107  (isolation #465)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:44 am

we call it islamophobia because for all your talk about rape and murder and intolerance you're fixated on banning muslims muslims muslims
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Post Post #6121  (isolation #466)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:42 am

my ignorance is someone else's problem
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Post Post #6125  (isolation #467)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:58 am

on the internet proof is something i'm always asked for but rarely given
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Post Post #6130  (isolation #468)  » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:05 pm

if you're really interested in verifying someone's claim, you should research it at least a little
if not, then why are you having the discussion you're in anyway
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Post Post #6137  (isolation #469)  » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:59 pm

meh
i think the internet does the work
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Post Post #6146  (isolation #470)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:03 am

it's not true, and even if it were true that wouldn't mean racism isn't real
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Post Post #6147  (isolation #471)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:04 am

In post 6144, T S O wrote:
In post 6067, Psyche wrote:PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT A MUSLIM IMMIGRANT BAN:

Why not filter adherents to terrible cultural practices, but not using religious or geographic tests? The "good" muslims/middle-easterners you admit exist can still get in, and the rest will kept out. Like, it seems like a pretty easy compromise with the left that achieves exactly what you want. There are still some free speech issues, but it would much better odds to survive strict scrutiny.

What's the problem with this idea? And also importantly, why does this have to be proposed in the first place? If your passion for this issue is driven by sincere concern about your country's safety, why are we talking about banning muslims instead of about banning rapists, murderers and terrorists?


How exactly would you go about this cultural practice adherence test? It's certainly an interesting idea.

how would anyone go about a muslim ban
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Post Post #6159  (isolation #472)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:24 am

yeah pisskop if i were you i would put accountant on your ignore sooner rather than later
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Post Post #6173  (isolation #473)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:34 pm

In post 6163, Shaziro wrote:Again, he didn't state "Liberals hate Trump" he stated that liberals on twitter appear to be willing to throw their opinions of somebody's work which is completely unrelated to their political leanings out just because of that person's political leanings.

kanye west's music is not "completely unrelated" to his political leanings
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Post Post #6176  (isolation #474)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:10 pm

i think it's really easy to see from kanye's music and persona why he'd like someone like trump
still it's always been known kanye is a fuckup personality-wise
anyone who didn't know it before just wasn't paying attention
he's still a genius
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Post Post #6208  (isolation #475)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:12 pm

zzz
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Post Post #6230  (isolation #476)  » Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:00 pm

donald's team seems serious about infrastructure investment, so at least that could turn out well
pairing it with across the board tax cuts, even on the wealthy, though, just seems stupid
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Post Post #6251  (isolation #477)  » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:57 am

In post 6249, karnos wrote:The case against Trump basically amounted to "he says mean things, and people accused him (baseless?) of rape"

wrongg
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Post Post #6253  (isolation #478)  » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:59 am

ur really badly informed dude
it doesn't seem like you read very broadly
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Post Post #6336  (isolation #479)  » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:35 am

looking forward to learning donald trump's secret plan to destroy isis
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Post Post #6348  (isolation #480)  » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:47 am

it's funny because it seems like you're the one holding candidates to different standards
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Post Post #6363  (isolation #481)  » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:36 pm

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Post Post #6408  (isolation #482)  » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:27 am

such convolution
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Post Post #6410  (isolation #483)  » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:38 am

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Post Post #6519  (isolation #484)  » Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:20 pm

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Post Post #7535  (isolation #485)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:08 pm

karnos really gulped down the whole gallon huh
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Post Post #7539  (isolation #486)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:18 pm

i have to wonder if you're an american if you think the current electoral college system does anything to make elections less about appeals to emotions, welfare, entertainment, immediate gains
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Post Post #7542  (isolation #487)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:21 pm

karnos i thought you said we were disregarding attack lines that don't have clear substantiation
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Post Post #7545  (isolation #488)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:23 pm

pisskop wrote:
In post 7539, Psyche wrote:i have to wonder if you're an american if you think the current electoral college system does anything to make elections less about appeals to emotions, welfare, entertainment, immediate gains

Than a direct democracy?
the electors are almost totally binded to the outcome of their state's popular vote
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Post Post #7577  (isolation #489)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:02 pm

In post 7548, karnos wrote:
In post 7542, Psyche wrote:karnos i thought you said we were disregarding attack lines that don't have clear substantiation


Are you retarded? The woman who gave Hillary the answers was FIRED for it. How is that not substantiation enough?

The only evidence reported mentioned just one question that the woman provided.
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Post Post #7578  (isolation #490)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:03 pm

karnos i wonder a lot sometimes about how you became the sort of person you are
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Post Post #7582  (isolation #491)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:08 pm

so now you're changing the subject from the thing you called me retarded over
that's rather intellectually dishonest
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Post Post #7622  (isolation #492)  » Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:52 pm

this thread is everything the moderators dreamed f62 would be
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Post Post #7643  (isolation #493)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:00 am

In post 7637, karnos wrote:You really are terrible at this whole "thinking" thing.

the pot and the kettle
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Post Post #7770  (isolation #494)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:02 pm

In post 7705, karnos wrote:
In post 7680, Showtime wrote:
In post 7676, karnos wrote:No, it really doesn't. But still, I'm glad you are sticking to your guns on this, because it destroys all your credibility and I won't have to waste time wading through other BS you spew in this thread in the future.


I'd say "pot, meet kettle", but really, even that's giving you too much credit.

Come back when you can read and have some sort of answer to the actual issues raised.


AHAHAHAHA!

Showtime, you lost. It's okay, everyone loses occasionally, but this loss is especially enjoyable for me because you were just acting oh so cocky about being right. And now you are at a loss for words, you have no response at all, because you know you have been caught in a lie.

your posting is seriously rather sad
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Post Post #7771  (isolation #495)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:04 pm

In post 7615, Accountant wrote:
In post 7610, Sesq wrote:Why are you so trusting of officials?

It's their literal job to make your lives better. If you can't trust them, who can you trust?

my mom and dad
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Post Post #7772  (isolation #496)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:20 pm

If Trump's Taiwan call was actually planned, then overall I'm pretty impressed.
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Post Post #7774  (isolation #497)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:15 pm

That's impressive, too
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Post Post #7776  (isolation #498)  » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:19 pm

think more joust less
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Post Post #7822  (isolation #499)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:00 pm

In post 7816, Persivul wrote:
In post 7815, karnos wrote:A few bad words in this video, but dammit, I really think Milo nails it in the first few minutes re: bias in media.

NSFW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTxSAjXpnqo

Speaking of Milo and bias in media...media is always gay this gay that...EXCEPT when they link Milo to the alt right. They rarely mention that he's gay. Doesn't fit the desired alt right narrative.

not really true
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Post Post #7823  (isolation #500)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:01 pm

In post 7821, Persivul wrote:
In post 7818, pisskop wrote:You know, I really liked alt right. Some of their stuff is really quite good, or at least a good attempt at being more intellectual

Yep, which is why the left has to paint them not as just garden-variety racists, but actual white supremacists.

that is the actual difference between the two groups
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Post Post #7827  (isolation #501)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:37 pm

???
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Post Post #7867  (isolation #502)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:15 pm

it's extremely well documented that racism affects minorities over and above their poverty
please read a book sometime
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Post Post #7868  (isolation #503)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:16 pm

i should link the thread i made a while back but if pisskop isn't trying why should i
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Post Post #7941  (isolation #504)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:03 pm

In post 7870, pisskop wrote:
In post 7868, Psyche wrote:i should link the thread i made a while back but if pisskop isn't trying why should i

Lol

I could go get the stats that implicate the culture of these minorities as a large culprit instead of necessarily their skin colors but you arent interested in [i[why[/i] poverty is prevalent, just who you can blame and what kind of money needs to be spent to assuage your phantom guilt.

i actually did my research
you're just talking in hypotheticals, comfortable being stupid in the actual
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Post Post #7942  (isolation #505)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:05 pm

four pages of debate over a substantive, concrete issue and not one link to peer-reviewed research
on both sides you guys are wasting time you could spend enjoying yourselves or growing as people
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Post Post #7945  (isolation #506)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:11 pm

The problem with using anecdotes to debate with people is the fact that people probably disagree with you because their anecdotes are different.
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Post Post #7948  (isolation #507)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:53 pm

you just don't seem very good at reading karnos
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Post Post #7950  (isolation #508)  » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:00 pm

just astounding that you think posts like those are clever
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Post Post #7955  (isolation #509)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:03 am

hahahahahahahahahaha
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Post Post #7968  (isolation #510)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:53 am

trump also reached out to blacks more vigorously than other republican candidates, however badly he pulled it off
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Post Post #8052  (isolation #511)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:04 pm

In post 8028, inte wrote:fucking trump supporters. picking up what they want to hear, ignoring what they don't want to hear, and always arguing away from the actual points at hand

have to hold onto the hope that most trump supporters are not karnos
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Post Post #8055  (isolation #512)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:44 pm

no one cares what you care about karnos
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Post Post #8061  (isolation #513)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:08 pm

wow karnos what a great idea i can't believe no liberal has ever thought of that
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Post Post #8077  (isolation #514)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:40 pm

In post 8070, Fluminator wrote:Speaking of which. One of the mysteries of this site to me is how some of you people have so much free time to research so many facts and studies.

the secret is that it's actually really easy
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Post Post #8078  (isolation #515)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:40 pm

In post 8076, GreyICE wrote:Why isn't the free market fixing it?

it's not free enough
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Post Post #8091  (isolation #516)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:52 pm

In post 8083, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 8077, Psyche wrote:
In post 8070, Fluminator wrote:Speaking of which. One of the mysteries of this site to me is how some of you people have so much free time to research so many facts and studies.

the secret is that it's actually really easy

Image

it's important to find at least one link that sort of kinda contradict what you believe so that it's just so much more convincing when you share the five other ones you found that do
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Post Post #8102  (isolation #517)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:57 pm

In post 8100, karnos wrote:
In post 8098, Kublai Khan wrote:Well, you voted Trump. So that was an action......


Good old KK, calling 49% of the voting population racist.

it's closer to 99 than 49 imo
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Post Post #8172  (isolation #518)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:18 pm

In post 8124, karnos wrote:
In post 8104, Fluminator wrote:
In post 8102, Psyche wrote:
In post 8100, karnos wrote:
In post 8098, Kublai Khan wrote:Well, you voted Trump. So that was an action......


Good old KK, calling 49% of the voting population racist.

it's closer to 99 than 49 imo

You're in the 1% I assume?


>voted Trump

>it's closer to 99 than 49 imo

Some idiot thinks 99% of the voting population voted Trump. I mean, that would have been awesome, but sadly my number was far more correct.


wow
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Post Post #8173  (isolation #519)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:20 pm

what a textbook example of what's wrong with how karnos posts
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Post Post #8178  (isolation #520)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:30 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implici ... ation_test

Valence IATs measure associations between concepts and positive or negative valence. They are generally interpreted as a preference for one category over another. For example, the Race IAT shows that more than 70% of individuals have an implicit preference for Whites over Blacks. On the other hand, only half of Black individuals prefer Blacks over Whites (cf. the earlier "doll experiment" developed by psychologists Kenneth and Mamie Clark during the early civil rights era).


You can determine your own implicit racial attitudes by going to implicit.harvard.edu.
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Post Post #8185  (isolation #521)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:15 pm

that kind of attitude is part of why racism is still so prevalent fb
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Post Post #8187  (isolation #522)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:18 pm

zzz
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Post Post #8189  (isolation #523)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:25 pm

Other studies have shown that implicit attitudes (imperfectly) predict the behaviors you'd expect. Even if they do emerge from a life remote from people of other races, that wouldn't make tests less meaningful. One thing great about the test is that now that it exists, we can test hypotheses like those about how implicit attitudes towaed certain demographics emerge.
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Post Post #8191  (isolation #524)  » Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:58 pm

all the buzz words
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Post Post #8197  (isolation #525)  » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:57 am

In post 8194, Garmr wrote:
In post 8170, Accountant wrote:Slavery has been abolished but oppression remains

It is oppression we are trying to fix

Can I ask you a question. I'm white and i'm first generation Australian and my family came from Europe and has been there for 100s of years. I was not part of the slavery america did nor have I ever lived there. Why should I be treated as part guilty party for what some red neck Americans did 100s of years ago why should I be lumped in because of my white skin. In fact why should white people in general be treated that way even if they are born in america if they don't have ancestors going back to then.

I would even go argue that even if those people related that have ancestors that had slaves shouldn't be blamed for actions they didn't commit and treating white people like the villains is just going to cause more racism. I think it's stupid for someone to have white guilt.


the liberal mainstream agrees that white guilt is stupid
they also think racism is still a problem that needs to be addressed

Also I would argue that after slavery things mended up pretty well and there was a brief period of time where black people had all the same opportunity's and such then it declined because of reasons. (you could say it was nixon or the fbi if you believe in that or many other reasons including ones that don't have to do with white people like the increase in single mothers in the black community) So you could argue the damage from the slave days has pretty much been repaired but other things have devastated black communities in recent years.


okay, make the argument
it would be fun to read
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Post Post #8253  (isolation #526)  » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:28 am

wishful thinking
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Post Post #8263  (isolation #527)  » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:15 am

In post 8261, Ranmaru wrote:This just in:

My friend was walking by Penn's Campus in Philadelphia, and overheard three rich white kids. They were talking about who they were dating. One of them asked "Did you take out that sweet n*?" The other was like "Yeah I took her to a fancy ass restaurant the other day and she didn't like the taste or portions what a n* am I right?"

He was shell shocked, and surprised to hear this coming from people that should know better.

credible
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Post Post #8361  (isolation #528)  » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:42 pm

al gore is nobody who hasn't held political office in over a decade
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Post Post #8367  (isolation #529)  » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:35 pm

People came up with a word to refer to dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people and it caught on. What's the motive for litigating it?
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Post Post #8378  (isolation #530)  » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:45 pm

does karnos have a degree in climate science
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Post Post #8396  (isolation #531)  » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:19 pm

In post 8389, karnos wrote:Science would imply the scientific method, in which there is a hypothesis, an experiment, and a conclusion.

Global warming is all hypothesis, a few failed experiments, and not a single conclusion that has confirmed a hypothesis.

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
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Post Post #8462  (isolation #532)  » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:09 pm

god what an idiot
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Post Post #8503  (isolation #533)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:08 pm

they hacked republican operatives too
just decided not to release any of that data
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Post Post #8510  (isolation #534)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:36 pm

dear god
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Post Post #8512  (isolation #535)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:38 pm

these days agreeing with the CIA's public stance on an issue is being a conspiracy nut
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Post Post #8513  (isolation #536)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:40 pm

flum please you've got to be joking
you've got to already see how inanely stupid posting that in this context must be
katy perry "supported" hillary in 2016
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Post Post #8517  (isolation #537)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

karnos why are you linking to the verge when there's a link to the exclusive new york times report on the hacking right there
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Post Post #8518  (isolation #538)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:47 pm

clinton apologized over and over again for using the server why are you so dishonest
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Post Post #8519  (isolation #539)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:48 pm

do you literally only read news that massages your distorted ego
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Post Post #8522  (isolation #540)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:58 pm

In post 8520, Fluminator wrote:Was she sorry for actively deleting emails from this private server that she probably didn't want to be held accountable for?

Also a funny thing about people being outraged at Russia interfering is
1. America very literally does it all the time in other countries.
2. They could only know if they were hacking into Russia's systems.

why is this relevant??
when ISIS bombs a city do you say "America bombs ISIS all the time"?
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Post Post #8523  (isolation #541)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:01 pm

In post 8521, Persivul wrote:No. Other countries have interests in our elections. Other leaders openly supported Hillary. Was that weird?

the national security establishment isn't mad because russia "supported" trump
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Post Post #8525  (isolation #542)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:09 pm

I don't understand why you're doing this. You really don't know why the national security establishment is mad??
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Post Post #8526  (isolation #543)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:09 pm

like it really seems like you're playing dumb for political purposes
i don't understand it
if you don't want to have a honest conversation about this, why are you posting? the wlection is already over
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Post Post #8529  (isolation #544)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:15 pm

obviously there's a difference between hacking a private citizen and what the national security establishment is worried about
do i really have to connect the dots? does my respect for your intellect really have to fall that low?
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Post Post #8531  (isolation #545)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:19 pm

did anyone in this thread say that it's only bad when it happens to us? or are you saying we should be okay with it no matter who does it?
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Post Post #8536  (isolation #546)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:06 pm

why yes persival we are
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Post Post #8538  (isolation #547)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:59 pm

can you rephrase the question
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Post Post #8544  (isolation #548)  » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:32 pm

god help us all
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Post Post #8560  (isolation #549)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:34 am

In post 8554, Persivul wrote:Instead of whining about the Russians, read this:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/m ... ump-232547

why not both???
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Post Post #8566  (isolation #550)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:21 am

In post 8562, karnos wrote:
In post 8561, kuribo wrote:
In post 8559, karnos wrote:
In post 8558, Accountant wrote:Great! I'm sure you'll be a supporter for higher environmental standards then.


My standards are very high, which is why I am wholly opposed to spending money on dubious environmental claims.


So you're good with spending money on legitimate environmental claims, which is to say all of them?


Are you?

How much have you donated to environmental research?

every time he pays taxes he donates to environmental research
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Post Post #8568  (isolation #551)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:22 am

In post 8564, karnos wrote:
In post 8563, theplague42 wrote:That's not what he asked


I said "are you?"

I'm not sure how "That's not what he asked" makes any logical sense at all. Are you feeling okay? "Are you?" obviously means I am asking the EXACT same question he asked.

I then followed up with a second question.

such a dick
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Post Post #8569  (isolation #552)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:24 am

In post 8567, Persivul wrote:
In post 8560, Psyche wrote:
In post 8554, Persivul wrote:Instead of whining about the Russians, read this:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/m ... ump-232547

why not both???

Because I have yet to hear the point of whining about the Russians.

because it's so mindnumbingly obvious
why do people whine about aleppo?
why do people whine about AIDS?
why do people whine about any problem?
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Post Post #8571  (isolation #553)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:45 am

cmon im using the socratic method here
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Post Post #8590  (isolation #554)  » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:50 pm

the psyche has no corners
it is round like a firm buttock
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Post Post #8601  (isolation #555)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:02 am

i'm not going to try if you aren't
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Post Post #8605  (isolation #556)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:54 am

you believe assange over the intelligence community
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Post Post #8606  (isolation #557)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:54 am

i mean, i can understand doubting the intelligence community; their track record isn't the best
but deciding assange is more reliable?
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Post Post #8615  (isolation #558)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:41 pm

persival would you consider reading this before making more posts: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/ob ... .html?_r=1
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Post Post #8624  (isolation #559)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:14 pm

obama tried to do the same thing with russia
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Post Post #8632  (isolation #560)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:45 pm

sanctions are how the iran deal was leveraged
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Post Post #8651  (isolation #561)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:03 pm

sanctions do work
just because they didnt work in the specific case you referenced doesn't mean they're not efficacious
as i just pointed out, sanctions are how we pulled off the iran deal
in russia, they substantially weakened the country's political economy, restraining them even if not immediately forcing them into surrender
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Post Post #8656  (isolation #562)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:14 pm

In post 8650, pisskop wrote:What do americans gain from sanctions with russia? Really, what does the average Soundbyte Sam get from the sanctions?

they're safer
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Post Post #8657  (isolation #563)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:16 pm

In post 8654, pisskop wrote:Let me ask you, psy, were the sanctions worth it?

The next time they support a proxy war or fire up a country we stuck our thumb into, was it worth it?

We 'hurt' them economically. Sure. Now when they incite a war that was already costly in revenge was it worth it?

Would be hard to tell, wouldn't it?
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Post Post #8658  (isolation #564)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:18 pm

I think Russia would have a geopolitical incentive to do lots of the stuff you think they did "in revenge" even if no sanctions were in place. And without those sanctions, they'd have been able to do them even more comprehensively and with better resources.
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Post Post #8661  (isolation #565)  » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:41 pm

The policy is basically reciprocation. When Russia does something we don't like, we make sure it costs them. It's not utopian, but the alternatives aren't real alternatives. We can't go hardline - Russia is a nuclear power. And Russia doesn't want to kiss and make up - see the failed "Russian Reset". The basic goal of the Russian Reset was great - generating a Russia integrated into the world economy; more prosperous, more invested in the international order. However, Russia opted out of that. America has no reason to respond to things like the Crimean annexation with a self-destructive, all-out war, but just doing nothing isn't a great idea either - consider the appeasement stance toward Hitler in the 30s. The right thing to do isn't always "extreme" or clear-cut, and doesn't always result in a situation that's perfectly peachy. Sometimes things are bad no matter what and all you can do is keep it from getting worse.
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Post Post #8670  (isolation #566)  » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:55 pm

if pisskop is the new conservative icon of ms i am ok w that
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Post Post #8706  (isolation #567)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:54 am

In post 8703, karnos wrote:Too much discussion with me and you might achieve sentience, and then they would have to wipe your memory and reset you.
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Post Post #8720  (isolation #568)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:32 am

that doesn't make any sense accountant
issues don't go to court unless there's an accusation of criminal activity
that's the first step
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Post Post #8722  (isolation #569)  » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:34 am

i can't accuse someone of robbery unless they've already been convicted of robbery? what???
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Post Post #8762  (isolation #570)  » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:03 am

so obnoxious
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Post Post #8813  (isolation #571)  » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:01 pm

garmr the next time you wanna explain your use of "regressive left", you could talk about the horseshoe theory:

Image

the theory is that the far right and the far left are actually closer to each other in ideology and in practice than they are to the moderates in their own parties
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Post Post #8818  (isolation #572)  » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:19 pm

yeah but
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Post Post #8875  (isolation #573)  » Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:38 pm

zzz
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Post Post #8926  (isolation #574)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:18 pm

the bible was a mistake and yeah sure i guess it's important to study and learn from it
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Post Post #8976  (isolation #575)  » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:32 pm

In post 8970, karnos wrote:The hero we needed.

Image

such a creeep
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Post Post #9067  (isolation #576)  » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:59 pm

weird thing for a republican to post
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Post Post #9069  (isolation #577)  » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:16 pm

oh my there was a whole other page
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Post Post #9070  (isolation #578)  » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:16 pm

wait
what
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Post Post #9081  (isolation #579)  » Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:20 pm

In post 9074, Zulfy wrote:which is correct, Founding Fathers were white nationalists

niceee
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Post Post #9112  (isolation #580)  » Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:11 pm

In post 9109, karnos wrote:
In post 9108, Davsto wrote:Yeah, and you could use it instead of wanking yourself off in this thread too!


It's funny because your avatar is literally shaking his hands up and down.

this is karnos's sense of humor
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Post Post #9129  (isolation #581)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:34 am

yah psa though there are some exceptions, you should probably avoid calling people <race> goddess, especially if ur white and they aren't
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Post Post #9130  (isolation #582)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:43 am

that goes for u too narna
you sound something like, "Yo guys, look at how white this woman is. Her whiteness is top-notch!"
i don't know how to explain this in specific terms, but equating beauty standards with race is icky at best, racializing the whole practice
you complain complain that progressives too often make things about race, but then indulge in language like this?
if it's not racism it's racialism
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Post Post #9141  (isolation #583)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:06 pm

In post 9132, karnos wrote:
In post 9128, theplague42 wrote:Would you be OK with me saying that, as opposed to black or African?



I'd be okay with you saying whatever the hell you want to say. Freedom of speech and all that.

that's not what freedom of speech means
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Post Post #9142  (isolation #584)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:08 pm

In post 9138, pisskop wrote:ut 'white godess'? Bah, if thats too much to stomach then every single time somebody uses an adjective that excludes people youd better be there to yell about it

why racialize beauty?
i thought conservatives these days were supposed to be against racialism
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Post Post #9143  (isolation #585)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:11 pm

freedom of speech isn't being able to say whatever you want and everyone being okay with it!
it's being able to say whatever you want even though people aren't ok with it!
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Post Post #9145  (isolation #586)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:16 pm

when you call someone an aryan goddess you aren't using their whiteness as a descriptor; you are centering their whiteness as a descriptor
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Post Post #9147  (isolation #587)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:19 pm

oh is that all it took
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Post Post #9151  (isolation #588)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:21 pm

its ur whole iso bro
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Post Post #9159  (isolation #589)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:28 pm

no, tso, plague is calling you a dick
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Post Post #9162  (isolation #590)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:31 pm

how did a phrase like "Black lives matter" become controversial
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Post Post #9164  (isolation #591)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:32 pm

In post 9161, T S O wrote:You have so much rage and anger stored up inside of you, Psyche. I don't understand why you're like that.

it's irritating to see bad people feeling okay about themselves
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Post Post #9165  (isolation #592)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:33 pm

In post 9163, T S O wrote:The phrase is fine. The organisation isn't.

The black lives matter movement was never really organized
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Post Post #9171  (isolation #593)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:43 pm

like, it's one thing to say she's black and to like traits typical of black people
but to say she's beautiful because she's black or because she's white or because she's asian or because she somehow embodies some racial ideal
it's racialism and fetishism. it's creepy and regressive.
i don't think i'm going to convince you to believe me, but i will tell you that's what it'll come off as to a lot of people — the pc crowd, i guess — and thar it comes off that way to them because it is that way
not much more to say i spose
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Post Post #9172  (isolation #594)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:45 pm

In post 9170, Kublai Khan wrote:Why is Milo a person worth celebrating?

Is it because he brings good ideas to the national table for discussion or is it because he bothers people you don't like?

I say this loosely and with grating teeth, but Milo is a thoughtful guy. It's unfortunate that he's also the biggest imaginable asshole, but he is a thoughtful guy.
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Post Post #9174  (isolation #595)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:53 pm

In the aftermath of WWII, Germans were horrified by what their state had done. In the aftermath of the civil war, Southern Whites weren't. What drove the difference? That's actually a really good research question.
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Post Post #9176  (isolation #596)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:58 pm

But, like, anti-Semitism et al goes way, way back.
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Post Post #9179  (isolation #597)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:07 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazif ... t_campaign

allies apparently orchestrated a campaign of "denazification" in germany, including posters of concentration camps saying "You did this!", media censorship and of course trials for nazi affiliates and barring of former nazis from public office
but the article suggests the campaign was ineffective and widely opposed by germans?
Last edited by Psyche on Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #9180  (isolation #598)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:12 pm

that might've been it
allies made a more concerted and sustained effort to denazify germany after WWII while Reconstruction after the Civil War was much more disorganized and compromising
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Post Post #9183  (isolation #599)  » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:15 pm

We were probably also better at propaganda and bureaucracy in 1940s Germany than in 1860s USA
not to mention the sheer size of the US then
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