Donald Trump

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Post Post #10259  (isolation #200)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:15 pm

Admitting a flaw in their candidate is a sign of weakness to some people.
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Post Post #10622  (isolation #201)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:04 pm

In post 10603, karnos wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4001266/The-victim-Merkel-s-welcome-culture-Death-teenager-raped-murdered-Afghan-migrant-Germany-sparks-protests-latest-backlash-against-open-door-policy.html

The savage rape and murder of a beautiful 19-year-old medical student in Germany at the hands of a teenage Afghan refugee has sparked a frenzied backlash against the 'open door' asylum policy of Chancellor Angela Merkel.

"There is nothing anybody could have done!"

Well, yeah: you could just not go in the pool (i.e., stop taking on refugees)

Ahahahahahaha using the daily mail as if it's a legitimate source ahahahahahaha you tickle me in so many ways, none of them right
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Post Post #10626  (isolation #202)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:16 pm

I'm attacking the argument because it cites the Daily Mail as a source which is notoriously unreliable

Sure, I came along with a bit of a personal jab too, but I never said that anyone who did a personal attack was a terrible person and am not a hypocrite - all I did originally was mock you because you said you "didn't resort to personal attacks" in the same sentence as a personal attack.

But sure, sit and smile like you've won anyway. You deserve it for all the effort you put into this thread, as misguided as it all is.
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Post Post #10637  (isolation #203)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:59 pm

In post 10635, Untrod Tripod wrote:it is however a bad argument to dismiss a news item out of hand because a source is openly partisan

the political leaning of the Daily Mail has no bearing on whether or not the attack actually happened

It's not a political lean thing - many stories coming through the Daily Mail are just simply false or at least ridiculously exaggerated, as inte says above.

Additionally, my thought when people link to the DM as a source is that it was the best source they could find as chances are if there were one from a source which is more reliable they'd be linking it.

Do you get why I assume that DM sources are therefore likely bad?
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Post Post #10645  (isolation #204)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:02 pm

In post 10643, Sesq wrote:The thing is that most of these papers have a very liberal bias, so if they're reporting something counter to the narrative then that's certainly something right there.

Sounds like you don't really know about British press - generally speaking, Daily Mail leans right.

Of course, it's a tabloid, so it is very much more an opinions sort of paper all written by various people who aren't really watched closely so there's a lot of varying opinions, but generally it is seen to be right leaning.
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Post Post #10656  (isolation #205)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:29 pm

In post 10647, Sesq wrote:
In post 10645, Davsto wrote:
In post 10643, Sesq wrote:The thing is that most of these papers have a very liberal bias, so if they're reporting something counter to the narrative then that's certainly something right there.

Sounds like you don't really know about British press - generally speaking, Daily Mail leans right.

Of course, it's a tabloid, so it is very much more an opinions sort of paper all written by various people who aren't really watched closely so there's a lot of varying opinions, but generally it is seen to be right leaning.


The UK right is also different from the US right. This isn't a good generalization tho (referring to my stuff above)

But in the terms of the Mail and similar tabloids, that is not even slightly counter to their narrative. The Mail, the Sun, etc report things like this more often than not, because they are entirely anti-migrant. Add that to the Daily Mail's already lie-filled past and you have a ridiculously unreliable source.

Are you honestly saying that just because something says something that is "counter to the narrative" of the general push of papers then it is true, or at least "there is something right there?" Is it not possible that the narrative has been established not through some left-wing collusion to ruin America and Europe through the introduction of murdering rapist migrants, but because it's close to the truth?

I'm sure if papers reported literally every rape or murder committed by any person every time it happens, you'd see a lot of news stories related to it. That's why you may feel you see so many migrant crime stories - because everyone has the capacity to be bad. No paper reports every single crime committed because it's a ridiculous waste of time. However, those with an anti-migrant bias can (and often do) report the vast majority of migrant crimes, therefore you see a lot more migrant crimes than non-migrant crimes in the news if you look at every source. Therefore, migrants could commit way fewer crimes than a native citizen, but because they are way more likely to have their news reported, they look worse.
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Post Post #10657  (isolation #206)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:30 pm

In post 10654, karnos wrote:It absolutely is, against the article. Davsto attacked the character of the source rather than the actual substance of the article.

No, I attacked the substance of the source in general, because it is notoriously unreliable. Pay attention.
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Post Post #10670  (isolation #207)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:44 pm

In post 10660, karnos wrote:
In post 10657, Davsto wrote:
In post 10654, karnos wrote:It absolutely is, against the article. Davsto attacked the character of the source rather than the actual substance of the article.

No, I attacked the substance of the source in general, because it is notoriously unreliable. Pay attention.


You attacked the source, not the argument. Call it "substance" if you want, it's still a fallacy.

Okay, I'll put it in terms that may help you understand it.

Imagine you have someone at your work, let's call him Day Lee. He's a habitual liar, and everyone knows it. Okay, not everything he says is a lie, but he tells lots of tales about times he saved someone from being mugged or his dad dying from cancer twice and lots of other bullcrap. He tells lie after lie after lie, no matter how many times he's caught out, to the point where you don't even know when he's telling the truth.

Additionally, he's really quite racist against black people. You don't like it, but he is. He frequently uses slurs and degrades them.

Now one day, he comes up to you and tells you that, on the way to work, he was beaten up violently by a black man who used lots of anti-white language against him, and that it's an example of just how terrible they all are.

Day Lee, whose past has shown him a habitual liar, comes up to you and tells you a story about something that happened, which also very conveniently happens to fit his exact worldview. Now, call it a personal attack, but is it really so fallacious to assume offhand that his story is probably bollocks?
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Post Post #10677  (isolation #208)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:52 pm

wow youre right karnos that is a much better analogy than mine other than everything about it
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Post Post #10722  (isolation #209)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:34 am

In post 10710, Tere wrote:
In post 10645, Davsto wrote:
In post 10643, Sesq wrote:The thing is that most of these papers have a very liberal bias, so if they're reporting something counter to the narrative then that's certainly something right there.

Sounds like you don't really know about British press - generally speaking, Daily Mail leans right.

Of course, it's a tabloid, so it is very much more an opinions sort of paper all written by various people who aren't really watched closely so there's a lot of varying opinions, but generally it is seen to be right leaning.


All snark aside, would it be helpful to try to decode British press for folk in a separate aside? Perhaps even a sticky for World press including US 101?

I am getting very tired about saying guys plz Daily Mail is not a source....

I mean maybe, but karnos all but said doesn't really give a flying fornication how unreliable his source is as long as it supports his worldview and the point he's trying to push and most others who use it as a source feel the same so part of me doesn't really see the point.
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Post Post #10771  (isolation #210)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:21 pm

In post 10726, T S O wrote:HuffPo is actually carcinogenic.

I'm sure the Daily Mail has probably said it is at some point
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Post Post #10808  (isolation #211)  » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:16 pm

The only issue with the term "SJW" is that a lot of more right-aligned people just use it as a catch-all derogatory term to discredit the opinion of anyone further left than they are, so now 90% of the time I see someone describing others as being SJWs I immediately disregard it unless it's actually been explained and expanded upon.
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Post Post #10822  (isolation #212)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:05 am

In post 10819, kuribo wrote:Like, I saw literally no shorthand-for-black people memes about Harambe. Every single meme I saw of him over six months in 2016 was about respect, admiration, missing him, him being a hero, or whipping your dick out in tribute

I was under the impression that the memes worshiping Harambe were more intended to mock those who genuinely reacted (well, overreacted) quite badly to his death.
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Post Post #10855  (isolation #213)  » Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:23 pm

In post 10852, Annadog40 wrote:Not like people can go around, under or over a wall.

Can't go over it
Can't go under it
Can't go around it
Have to go through it!
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Post Post #10931  (isolation #214)  » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:24 pm

In post 10928, inte wrote:also, don't strawman me

In post 10915, inte wrote:the dossier is real, what is outlined in the dossier is unverified, or potentially false

Karnos? Strawmanning? Gosh, never!
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Post Post #10947  (isolation #215)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:04 pm

In post 10944, T S O wrote:Did you just link me Slate? I think I just contracted AIDS.

Trust me, you probably caught it from yourself
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Post Post #10951  (isolation #216)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:06 pm

In post 10948, T S O wrote:What a ridiculous line of thinking. Such intellectual dishonesty has never before been seen, except from SK/Psyche/TSO.

indeed
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Post Post #10966  (isolation #217)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:36 pm

ITT: Trump supporters so insecure about him that they have to reassure themselves that he will be competent by yelling it over and over and hoping it becomes true
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Post Post #10978  (isolation #218)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:57 pm

In post 10977, karnos wrote:If you want to take a hard stance I'll gladly destroy you.

out of context
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Post Post #10985  (isolation #219)  » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:39 pm

In post 10984, karnos wrote:Not going to waste any more time on a troll.

So you're going to spend less time being egotistical?
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Post Post #11054  (isolation #220)  » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:29 pm

Shaz as much as that's a good point why put that much effort into karnos lol
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Post Post #11141  (isolation #221)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:21 am

In post 11104, CommKnight wrote:. He's less likely to lie

Look, you can argue in favour of Trump all you want, but if your favourable comments include blatant bullshit like this, no-one is going to take you seriously. For example, I can no longer take anything you say seriously.

Admittedly, I don't take anything anyone says on this forum (besides personal issues) seriously, but I'm taking you even less seriously than I take anything else.
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Post Post #11143  (isolation #222)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:26 am

There's a difference between making any other bad point and literally asserting that Donald Trump is "less likely to lie". People slip up, but that's just pure and straightforward ignorance of anything that has actually happened.
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Post Post #11145  (isolation #223)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:16 am

I'm genuinely baffled now. It sounds like you're reading it as "less likely to die". What has their age and health got to do with Trump lying?
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Post Post #11197  (isolation #224)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:24 am

In post 11193, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 11154, Annadog40 wrote:If everyone in this thread took a media literacy class, it would be a better place.

OMG yes.

I mean this thread would be better if some people took a regular literacy class tbh
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Post Post #11202  (isolation #225)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:28 am

I've heard of cherry picking but karnos has developed it into an art form.
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Post Post #11213  (isolation #226)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:46 am

In post 11211, Kublai Khan wrote:You can't win an argument by being dense and ignoring information.

He's merely emulating his new president!
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Post Post #11214  (isolation #227)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:46 am

I guess you could say that Donald has set a bad president ahahaha
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Post Post #11240  (isolation #228)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Okay because Psyche has opted for the "just say no and expand no further" answer which is kinda irritating for all parties involved, I'll explain with my limited knowledge of what I know of the wage gap.

It's "not real" in the sense that women aren't literally paid less than men for the same job as men when in the job for the same amount of time in a literal "we pay women less per month wage" sort of way.

It is real in that, overall, women earn less than men. This is due to a number of factors, including (but not limited to) women generally being subtly implored to pursue careers which generally earn less money from a younger age, and maternity leave is much bigger than paternity leave so women overall take more paid time off during parenthood (but during this time no experience is gained so they can't get a raise as quickly as a man in the same position and they can't have their working husband take time off because he's barely given paternity leave).

So it's much less overt than literally being paid less, and it's basically all but impossible to fully stop. However, certain steps could be taken to reduce the effect, such as equalising maternity and paternity leave, and by stopping certain jobs being seen as "men's jobs" or "women's jobs", and to be fair these are steps in the direction of equality that are good independent of their effect on the gap, real or fictional as it may be.

tl;dr women on average earn less because of societal imbalances that aren't directly related to how much you own but influence it indirectly.
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Post Post #11243  (isolation #229)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:42 pm

Yeah but burden of proof is on you or something I think, I mean there's no real way to prove that pay gap isn't a thing

It's a thing I see a trend of and it's kinda irritating considering that 90% of the time when someone says something like that doesn't exist what it really secretly means (even if they're unaware of it) is that they haven't been properly read up about it, where someone says something and then the (usually left-wing) person just gives a straightforward answer and gives no extra information with the person disagreeing and then wonders why they don't change their opinion

I mean that's totally a generalisation and a pretty bad way of describing it (I'm tired hush) but the general sorta gist is a thing that happens and it's one of the discussion things people that I agree with do and it just bugs me

It's like with "reverse racism" and the reply is "that isn't real lol" when the reply should really be "that's racial discrimination but not racism because they are slightly different things"

It's just a little thing to do which makes this kind of discourse much easier because often the opposition is arguing from a position of ignorance (not stupidity, just being unaware) rather than one of pure, outright disagreement

This is all from someone who used to be on the other side for this kinda thing and it wasn't until it was properly explained that I actually realised that I shared the view all along but people seemed so reluctant to explain the basics that I just didn't know
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Post Post #11264  (isolation #230)  » Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:48 pm

In post 11263, karnos wrote:KK responds with over 700 words trying to dance around the fact that he can't give a straight answer if his life depends on it.

Yet he still hasn't beat your record
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Post Post #11358  (isolation #231)  » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:55 pm

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Post Post #11380  (isolation #232)  » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:35 pm

"he doesn't literally advocate for women to be stoned for disobeying men so he's not a sexist"
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Post Post #11382  (isolation #233)  » Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:52 pm

I must say karnos you have this real knack for getting people to argue with you even though they know that you just want them to argue and you want to rile up and annoy them rather than do anything productive

I mean, it's not exactly a good skill, but it's definitely one you have.
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Post Post #11414  (isolation #234)  » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:45 am

I think Kellyanne Conway thought (like many) that Trump was never going to win and that she'd have a short-time, well paid job before Trump lost and so she'd have to do little

Now she's realised she's in for the long haul she's just given up trying to clean up Donald's crap
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Post Post #11456  (isolation #235)  » Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:38 pm

In post 11444, kuribo wrote:a mentally disabled chimp or a YouTube commenter

why did you just say the same thing twice in a row
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Post Post #11466  (isolation #236)  » Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:18 pm

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Post Post #11540  (isolation #237)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:44 pm

In post 11485, karnos wrote:BTW, you know what is cheaper than an abortion? Wearing a condom.

And to reduce the need for abortion (because we don't exactly want it to happen, we just believe that women should have a right to it) we want to provide easier and cheaper access to contraception, through companies such as Planned Pare- oh no
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Post Post #11541  (isolation #238)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:44 pm

In post 11518, T S O wrote:How delusional can someone be?

are you aware of the concept of mirrors
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Post Post #11542  (isolation #239)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:45 pm

In post 11529, Annadog40 wrote:Why don't you move to the US?

immigration laws
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Post Post #11557  (isolation #240)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:33 pm

from karnos' link wrote:Presidential lies fall into two categories: forgivable vs. unforgiveable.
Forgivable lies are those meant to keep the nation from harm. Some consider the National Security Agency's lies about the scope of domestic spying to be in this category because they protect us from terrorists, says Uravic, author of "Lying, Cheating Scum."
Unforgivable lies fall into the Nixonian "I am not a crook" category, Uravic says.
Those are lies meant to cover up crimes, incompetence or protect a president's political future.

But of course, reading any further than the first few lines is beyond karnos' attention span when trying to find things to prove what liberals them hypocrites are
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Post Post #11560  (isolation #241)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:38 pm

In post 11557, Davsto wrote:prove what liberals them hypocrites are

This was unintentional but is staying now
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Post Post #11561  (isolation #242)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:39 pm

In post 11559, karnos wrote:Nope, I read it.

That part doesn't apply: what part of the inauguration attendance was a crime?

No part of it, of course, what a ridiculous assertion that would be.
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Post Post #11569  (isolation #243)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:59 pm

In post 11568, Psyche wrote:a clearcut example of karnos's habit of deflection

I'd say a better example would be "the article you linked says that lies are bad if they cover up crimes, incompetence or protect a president's political future" and karnos goes "but what he was lying about wasn't a crime"
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Post Post #11642  (isolation #244)  » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:30 pm

In post 11613, T S O wrote:Mexico is going to pay for the wall. At the very least, it will be 50/50.

"donald trump is going to be following up on every promise he's made except maybe this big one which was one of the main driving points of his campaign"
I mean Trump himself has gone for "they're paying for the wall" to "we're paying for the wall and they will reimburse us in one form or another, potentially in a complicated form" which is basically politician talk for "I have no idea what's going to happen tbh"
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Post Post #11643  (isolation #245)  » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:30 pm

In post 11607, Shaziro wrote:I'm actually willing to explain without immature comments or jokes.

> Davsto's part
> without immature comments and jokes

See the thing is I do attempt to make a point with every post I make, it's just with people like karnos I've given up debating because either he's really strong in his views so they won't change, or he purposefully trolls so will never change, and generally he makes little attempt to understand the other side's view, so it's just more enjoyable to present my comments in a less serious debating format

But that doesn't mean that my comments themselves aren't meant to have some sort of substance behind them.
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Post Post #11662  (isolation #246)  » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:34 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38760671

Donald Trump threatens to cancel meeting with Mexican President if they don't want to pay for the wall. Mexican President cancels the meeting with Trump.
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Post Post #11676  (isolation #247)  » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:47 pm

In post 11664, karnos wrote:
In post 11662, Davsto wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38760671

Donald Trump threatens to cancel meeting with Mexican President if they don't want to pay for the wall. Mexican President cancels the meeting with Trump.


Took the bait like a chump. Now Trump can decimate NAFTA and Mexico doesn't even get a chance to get a word in.

This is too much winning.

In my view, what happened is Trump tried to bargain and blackmail Mexico to bend to his will using threats, Mexico promptly proved that they couldn't care less, removing Trump's bargaining chip (and likely damaging his pride while they're at it).
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Post Post #11685  (isolation #248)  » Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:10 pm

In post 11682, Psyche wrote:like, even now there are probably taxes or other funds flowing in from mexico
maybe not a net positive flow, but a flow
what really stops trump from increasing those even marginally and earmarking the added yearly amount for the wall?

I'd make an avatar bet on this but I am not that confident in Trump's ability to compromise, particularly in this situation where it could hurt his precious pride.
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Post Post #11753  (isolation #249)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:54 pm

In post 11751, karnos wrote:Sheep, good.

karnos, who has supported virtually every move Trump has made and almost everything he says, is saying this to kuribo, a supporter of the Green Party
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Post Post #11756  (isolation #250)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:55 pm

In post 11752, Shaziro wrote:It's almost like trump is directly relevant to people and their lives and Zoey Quinn's relationship isn't. Gamergate would have been much more relevant had people not elected to maintain a focus on identity politics while bragging about ignoring identity politics. That said, gamergate is especially irrelevant to this thread.

tl;dr Zoe Quinn wasn't the one running for President
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Post Post #11759  (isolation #251)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:58 pm

In post 11754, karnos wrote:
In post 11752, Shaziro wrote: That said, gamergate is especially irrelevant to this thread.


You have learned nothing.

Trump wouldn't have been elected without Gamergate.

Really? Shame, I was just beginning to warm up to some of its basic ideals.
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Post Post #11761  (isolation #252)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:58 pm

Like, no joke, I do like the idea of putting more focus on ethics in game journalism (well, journalism in general but w/e)

Shame that virtually every single other thing about the GG movement is utter garbage
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Post Post #11762  (isolation #253)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:59 pm

In post 11760, karnos wrote:
In post 11756, Davsto wrote:tl;dr Zoe Quinn wasn't the one running for President



TIL Davsto is fine and good with corruption, cheating, bias, & lies as long as it's not a [Republican] President doing those thing.

kek
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Post Post #11775  (isolation #254)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:40 pm

Oh good this is about to turn into a discussion about whether or not GamerGate is good or not

I'm entirely sure that this will end well!
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Post Post #11778  (isolation #255)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:58 pm

Despite using the "phobia" ending, Islamophobia does not refer to the irrational fear of Muslims as most "phobia"s do (in that sense, it is much like homophobia).

Image

It generally came about because prejudice against Muslims/Islam didn't have a proper term to refer to it (as generally the term "racist" was rejected as Islam is not a race)

Next?
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Post Post #11783  (isolation #256)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:33 pm

In post 11782, ɀefiend wrote:made-up word.

As opposed to all of those other words which are universal constants which have always existed

I don't think I've ever seen a more hilariously ignorant phrase used in my life.
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Post Post #11785  (isolation #257)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:35 pm

In post 11782, ɀefiend wrote:Just because you deem that a suffix means something else when creating a buzzword doesn't change the actual definition of the suffix.

So what you're saying is that, despite the fact that the word doesn't mean "irrational fear of Muslims", that you're going to act like it does because it contains the "phobia"?

You're basically going out of your way to discredit a word because of utterly insane reasoning.

Islamophobia is a word that exists because it's more effort than it is worth to go "hatred of Muslims" or "dislike of Muslims" every time. That is its sole purpose. What on earth is your actual problem with it?
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Post Post #11797  (isolation #258)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:19 pm

In post 11793, ɀefiend wrote:But I do fear Islam, because the most traditionalists and extremists who follow Qur'an and Hadith to a T are actually adherents to very dangerous and troublesome ideologies.

So you fear an entire group because of its extremists?

And you don't like being labelled as stereotyping a group or being prejudiced against it?

I have some bad news for you.
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Post Post #11802  (isolation #259)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:33 pm

In post 11800, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11796, Shaziro wrote:Then if you agree that the word could have changed to mean prejudiced against muslims, then what is your argument? Mroeover, if you don't think it has changed to mean that, why not?

Phobia hasn't changed to mean that because it isn't being arbitrarily attached to other words in an effort to virtue signal.

For example: if as Davsto said, it takes too much time/effort to type out "you are hateful, discriminating, or prejudiced against black people," then it makes sense to shorten that to something like "you are racist against black people."

But if phobia actually changed in meaning, why not just say "you're blackphobic." ? Answer: because arbitrarily changing the meaning of phobia is nonsensical.

I'm sure they'd happily use Islamist

But oh look the word's already taken! Let's have a look at what it means?

Image

See why we use the word "Islamophobia", now?
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Post Post #11803  (isolation #260)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:35 pm

Your point would be valid if it weren't for the fact that literally every person I've ever interacted with ever recognises that Islamophobia (and homophobia which has been in use for literally decades) is basically the equivalent to racism etc against Muslims.

You're literally just arguing against something for the sake of it. It's quite pathetic.
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Post Post #11806  (isolation #261)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:42 pm

And hydrophilic molecules aren't turned on by water
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Post Post #11821  (isolation #262)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:03 pm

In post 11815, kuribo wrote:But there's a word that means "prejudiced against muslims," and just because you see it as a buzzword doesn't make it less useful

Literally this

The word "Islamophobia" means "prejudiced against Muslims". That's its definition. No more. No less.

How can this not get into your head? It's hardly a complex system.
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Post Post #11824  (isolation #263)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:10 pm

In post 11823, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11818, Not_Mafia wrote:If people start saying "prejudice against Muslims" instead of Islamophobia, then they'd use that in the exact same way you have a problem with right now. Attacking the word is a stupid semantic argument, attack what you think is a misuse of it.

Actually, they wouldn't. When I debate people IRL about Islam, they default to calling me islamophobic. Nobody ever accuses me of simply being prejudiced or discriminating against Muslims.


They do. They do so by calling you Islamophobic. Because that's what the word means.
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Post Post #11826  (isolation #264)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:21 pm

In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:leftists

Surely leftists are people who are prejudiced against the left? I mean, the "ist" suffix in words like racist and sexist is a well-established suffix, and you can't just change the meaning of it like that!
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Post Post #11827  (isolation #265)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:21 pm

In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:buzzwords with contrived definitions doesn't mean the rest of society ought to readily accept them.

TIL "prejudice against Muslims" is a contrived definition
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Post Post #11829  (isolation #266)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:23 pm

In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:I suppose you would fit in with the LGBTQANOPQRS community, at least. They have a bad habit of inventing words and phrases.

And don't even get me started on how offensive this is, holy crap.

These "made up" words serve a purpose - there is something which doesn't currently have a word to describe it, so a word is made to fill that gap to make discourse easier.

They don't just invent them because it's funny. And saying "LGBTQANOPQRS", holy crap.
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Post Post #11830  (isolation #267)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:23 pm

So yeah, congratulations, your post was so bad I managed to make three posts about how bad it is
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Post Post #11832  (isolation #268)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:24 pm

In post 11828, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11824, Davsto wrote:
In post 11823, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11818, Not_Mafia wrote:If people start saying "prejudice against Muslims" instead of Islamophobia, then they'd use that in the exact same way you have a problem with right now. Attacking the word is a stupid semantic argument, attack what you think is a misuse of it.

Actually, they wouldn't. When I debate people IRL about Islam, they default to calling me islamophobic. Nobody ever accuses me of simply being prejudiced or discriminating against Muslims.


They do. They do so by calling you Islamophobic. Because that's what the word means.

Which is the whole problem I'm addressing to begin with. I'm not prejudiced or discriminating against Muslims, and they know this, so they employ the blanket buzzword islamophobic in an effort to shut down my concerns with Islam.

So you'd have the exact same issue even if they did use the term "prejudiced against Muslims", right?

So, in reality, there is nothing wrong with the word, just how easily people label you as prejudiced (and if it happens that often maybe you should wonder if you're the problem not them but that's irrelevant).

Your issue with the word has been a non-issue this entire time.

I'd say this has been constructive but frankly it's been beyond ridiculous.
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Post Post #11833  (isolation #269)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:25 pm

In post 11831, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11826, Davsto wrote:
In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:leftists

Surely leftists are people who are prejudiced against the left? I mean, the "ist" suffix in words like racist and sexist is a well-established suffix, and you can't just change the meaning of it like that!

Derailment from the central point. Not an argument.

I mean, it's literally one of the exact points you used against the word "Islamophobia". But sure.
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Post Post #11840  (isolation #270)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:31 pm

In post 11834, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11827, Davsto wrote:
In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:buzzwords with contrived definitions doesn't mean the rest of society ought to readily accept them.

TIL "prejudice against Muslims" is a contrived definition

Why don't people just accuse me of that, then? Because they know it's not true.

They do. They call you Islamophobic. That means "prejudice against Muslims".

When they call you Islamophobic, that's literally, exactly, entirely what they're doing.

This is beyond ridiculous. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. It's like if I were to call you "illiterate" and you were to go "why not just call me incapable of reading?"
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Post Post #11843  (isolation #271)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:34 pm

In post 11832, Davsto wrote:
In post 11828, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11824, Davsto wrote:
In post 11823, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11818, Not_Mafia wrote:If people start saying "prejudice against Muslims" instead of Islamophobia, then they'd use that in the exact same way you have a problem with right now. Attacking the word is a stupid semantic argument, attack what you think is a misuse of it.

Actually, they wouldn't. When I debate people IRL about Islam, they default to calling me islamophobic. Nobody ever accuses me of simply being prejudiced or discriminating against Muslims.


They do. They do so by calling you Islamophobic. Because that's what the word means.

Which is the whole problem I'm addressing to begin with. I'm not prejudiced or discriminating against Muslims, and they know this, so they employ the blanket buzzword islamophobic in an effort to shut down my concerns with Islam.

So you'd have the exact same issue even if they did use the term "prejudiced against Muslims", right?

So, in reality, there is nothing wrong with the word, just how easily people label you as prejudiced (and if it happens that often maybe you should wonder if you're the problem not them but that's irrelevant).

Your issue with the word has been a non-issue this entire time.

I'd say this has been constructive but frankly it's been beyond ridiculous.

In post 11840, Davsto wrote:
In post 11834, ɀefiend wrote:
In post 11827, Davsto wrote:
In post 11825, ɀefiend wrote:buzzwords with contrived definitions doesn't mean the rest of society ought to readily accept them.

TIL "prejudice against Muslims" is a contrived definition

Why don't people just accuse me of that, then? Because they know it's not true.

They do. They call you Islamophobic. That means "prejudice against Muslims".

When they call you Islamophobic, that's literally, exactly, entirely what they're doing.

This is beyond ridiculous. It's not that hard a concept to grasp. It's like if I were to call you "illiterate" and you were to go "why not just call me incapable of reading?"

zefiend just read this two posts because it's pretty good at summing up the basic flaws with your argument. Read them over and over, because I'm done.

I'd say it's like shouting at a wall but at least when you shout at a wall some bits of grit fall off (and it's satisfying).
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Post Post #11863  (isolation #272)  » Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:01 pm

oh yeah just thought I'd let you know the word "Islamophobia" dates back to the 90s

Like, Islamophobia isn't some silly word us liberals made up in the last few years, it's an academically, governmentally, universally recongised word for "prejudice against Muslims". If Islamophobia is a buzzword unsuitable for discourse, so is homophobia, and racism, and sexism - you get the picture

Your argument is beyond ridiculous. Like, I can't be bothered to make fun of it because it's a joke in and of itself.

I know I've said it a bunch of times but I'm genuinely beyond done at this point. Your argument seems to be branching out like ivy into even worse arguments about refusing to acknowledge pronouns (at which point you're just being downright rude to people because you're proud and stubborn) and the like.
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Post Post #11944  (isolation #273)  » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:19 am

It isn't well known, it was butter small war
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Post Post #11950  (isolation #274)  » Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:21 am

In post 11947, karnos wrote:Liberal tears blocking it out.

I'm pretty sure they would in fact refract the sun's rays, potentially even magnifying them and setting large fires.
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Post Post #11976  (isolation #275)  » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:55 am

See I think Accountant's comment was decent apart from the fact that a joke with the exact same general gist had been made in the previous post tbh

If I hadn't made my joke and Accountant had made theirs it would have been decent
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Post Post #11981  (isolation #276)  » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:13 am

In post 11977, Accountant wrote:
In post 11976, Davsto wrote:See I think Accountant's comment was decent apart from the fact that a joke with the exact same general gist had been made in the previous post tbh

If I hadn't made my joke and Accountant had made theirs it would have been decent

Why does the existence of your joke make mine any different?

Because it's basically the same joke (taking the "liberal tears blocking out the sun" comment literally and using that as some sort of mockery at what a ridiculous sentence it is).

Yours tackled it from a mildly different angle, but the same basic joke twice in a row is still the same basic joke twice in a row, making it less effective the second time around.
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Post Post #11982  (isolation #277)  » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:14 am

I can't believe this is actually being discussed.
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Post Post #11984  (isolation #278)  » Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:14 am

It's discusting
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Post Post #12057  (isolation #279)  » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:59 pm

In post 12051, pisskop wrote:Everyone thinks they have these magical rights that dont actually exist

So how do you feel about free speech?
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Post Post #12102  (isolation #280)  » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:16 pm

In post 12094, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 12092, Garmr wrote:I wouldn't use the term man child for people that dislike her veiws and debate against them. Manchild for me would be people known for there hissy fits and being so angry all the time or people who say they don't care about a topic and then proceed to show different.

Image

gif use on point
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Post Post #12138  (isolation #281)  » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:17 pm

I'd believe the "it's not a Muslim ban" if it weren't for the fact that a large part of Trump's campaign was calling for a Muslim ban
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Post Post #12195  (isolation #282)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:15 pm

Fun fact: replace the word "judge" with "president" in that tweet and it's actually more accurate
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Post Post #12220  (isolation #283)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:42 pm

hmm that image looks familiar
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Post Post #12224  (isolation #284)  » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:02 pm

Here we go I figured it
Image
Take away the red circley bits on the diagram and you got it
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Post Post #12248  (isolation #285)  » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:46 pm

tbh I was going to post that
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Post Post #12251  (isolation #286)  » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:30 pm

tbh I prefer this one
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Post Post #12425  (isolation #287)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:46 am

hey guys let's not post in here for the next two weeks so that when karnos is unbanned he forgets it existed
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Post Post #12427  (isolation #288)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:01 am

#neverforget
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Post Post #12450  (isolation #289)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:53 pm

In post 12440, inte wrote:you're fired

wow, who are you, alan sugar donald trump?
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Post Post #12451  (isolation #290)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Also

> Age: 2

I mean at least he's more honest than he claims the liberal media is
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Post Post #12452  (isolation #291)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:13 pm

Oh yeah I found Casually Explained and have been binging his videos and man are they a hoot



Just to provide a little lightheartedness to this thread which is in desperate need
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Post Post #12456  (isolation #292)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:56 pm

In post 12454, T S O wrote:Didn't he say that they let him do it? So it's consensual, then?

oh no
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Post Post #12461  (isolation #293)  » Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Depends on your interpretation of "letting him do it".

If by that he means they go "yes please Donald please molest my genatalia" or words to that effect then sure that's fine by all means

However, given the context (especially with the "because I'm famous" or whatever), I'd interpret those words as "they don't actively try and stop him", and that's not necessarily consent, as consent requires actual confirmation.

Say someone comes into your house and you hear them crashing around downstairs as they steal your stuff, and because you're intimidated you don't go downstairs and instead hide upstairs. Are you consenting for them to steal your belongings just because you're not going down and fighting them off? No, you don't want them to steal your belongings and you're uncomfortable with it, but you're too intimidated to do anything about it.

It's one big reason why many celebrity sexual predators such as Jimmy Saville managed to stay undetected for so long - in the situation, the victim is too intimidated to do anything about it, and think it's easier to let it happen than to risk getting injured in a fight by protesting back.

You get me?
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Post Post #12551  (isolation #294)  » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:07 am

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Post Post #12704  (isolation #295)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:56 am

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Post Post #12717  (isolation #296)  » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:15 pm

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Post Post #12793  (isolation #297)  » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:41 pm

and yet we all know that if illegally hacked or leaked information about Trump had surfaced that hurt his campaign even slightly these exact people would be totally up in arms about it

Of course, in that situation, I think that a large proportion of people who are upset about this now would be cheering that on so that's an interesting view too

I think the issue is the malicious agenda of the hackers, regardless of who they were or whether or not using illegal methods to expose information is good or not. They weren't exposing corruption out of goodwill to "let the people know" to promote honesty or whatever, as they didn't expose the issues with the opposition. They exposed corruption to control the election and help who they wanted to be in power.
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Post Post #12799  (isolation #298)  » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:54 pm

In post 12796, Sesq wrote:also i dont care why the information was leaked, i just care if its factual

In that case I think you're misunderstanding what the issue is

These people aren't complaining that the information was leaked or that they lost because of it. Okay, some of them are, but let's ignore them and concentrate on my view which is shared by a large proportion. We're saying that whoever did them had a serious malicious intent and was influencing the election and if it did turn out to be a foreign government's power then it is a serious issue, and therefore it is something that should be looked into as a responsibility of the people in power. Instead, it is being brushed aside and deflected from by those in power, which is problematic in ways that are fairly self-explanatory.
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Post Post #12806  (isolation #299)  » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:11 pm

In post 12803, Sesq wrote:however there's no evidence russia actually did it

I agree, which is exactly why it should be looked into
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Post Post #12809  (isolation #300)  » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 pm

In post 12804, T S O wrote:I wish there were some comedy shows I could get my political views from.

Yeah I agree that panel shows or anything political is generally left-leaning

Partially because a lot of comedians and such are left-wing, but also because right-wing politicians are often a lot easier to make fun of in general

Because people like Hillary are just... boring, you know? I mean there's the occasional clip where she looks like a robot adjusting to human society but other than that there's little to do, whereas trump is a damn goldmine of comedy goodness

I think it's clear that it is more the latter than the former if you look at, say, British political panel shows - right now, even though Teresa May is a right-wing prime minister, it's very rare to get a joke about her, whereas there are still frequent jokes about Farage, and Corbyn also gets a lot of jokes about him despite him being a left-wing, because those two are just flat out more interesting characters than the rather dull, run-of-the-mill May.
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Post Post #12816  (isolation #301)  » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 pm

In post 12812, Sesq wrote:
In post 12806, Davsto wrote:
In post 12803, Sesq wrote:however there's no evidence russia actually did it

I agree, which is exactly why it should be looked into


where did i say i was against investigations? im not

but acting as if theres evidence right now is dumb

Oh right it's cool then, sorry

Maybe I was confusing you with another but for some reason my brain had you in the crowd of people with the "who cares about it at all" opinion which is the worrying one
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Post Post #12896  (isolation #302)  » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:23 pm

In post 12885, James3 wrote:The media (and the rest of our social elites) have over recent years decided to force acceptance of the latter on society.

how dare they make us treat the gays with basic human decency and equal rights
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Post Post #12907  (isolation #303)  » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:49 pm

In post 12906, Untrod Tripod wrote:Judaizing? please, elaborate

or even better, don't
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Post Post #12950  (isolation #304)  » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:05 am

Nah it's pretty crap

Regardless of its motivation it comes across as an attempt to stifle even peaceful protests by putting huge risks on an organiser
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Post Post #12954  (isolation #305)  » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:55 am

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

you know it's really sad i can only put 30 of those things in one post because it's really not enough
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Post Post #12985  (isolation #306)  » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:08 pm

In post 12978, Accountant wrote:such actions are revolting.

No, revolting is when you attempt to actually overthrow the government
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Post Post #13035  (isolation #307)  » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:40 pm

i thought a genda was a social construct
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Post Post #13052  (isolation #308)  » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:15 pm

In post 13051, James3 wrote:Those are all well known fake news organizations.

so do they disagree with trump because they are fake news?
Or are they fake news because they disagree with Trump?
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Post Post #13068  (isolation #309)  » Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:19 pm

see when people make posts like that I'm unsure whether they really believe it or they're just to stubborn to admit they're wrong so are spouting that to try and act like they made the right choice

I'm also not sure which is more sad
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Post Post #13129  (isolation #310)  » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:18 am

Anyone who cites untrustworthy or unreliable press or whatever as the reason that news organisations weren't allowed in need to remember that one of the organisations was the BBC for crying out loud.
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Post Post #13130  (isolation #311)  » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:19 am

Like the Donald is literally given a curates list of news by his staff so he stays happy

He's literally making the White House a safe space where organisations who disagree with him aren't allowed
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Post Post #13132  (isolation #312)  » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:16 am

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Post Post #13172  (isolation #313)  » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:18 am

To be fair, most people are only aware of the tabloid rubbish section because that's the one that gets linked to facebook a bajillion times and that's the one that all the controversies have been around
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