Mini Normal 1866: Landmark Mafia! (Mafia Victory!)

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Post Post #9  (isolation #0)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:34 pm

Hi everyone! Really excited to start playing forum mafia again!

VOTE: Obvious Alt for what she said in the Queue.

In post 448, Obvious Alt wrote:/in mini

Saying this here, before role PMs go out, so saying it later is NAI. This account is experimenting with a new strategy to test its validity. I will be leaning HEAVILY on initial gut reads, and will be unlikely to respond to alternate views coming from others.


Everyone here owes it to the town to participate fully in discussion and scumhunting, and a great deal of that happens with back-and-forth argument and working off of each other's ideas. Trying to fly solo, though it may not be scummy in this one particular case, is anti-town IMO. So let's put her through some extra scrutiny by votes.

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Post Post #12  (isolation #1)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:40 pm

In post 10, Frozen Angel wrote:so why didn't you argue about that pregame?


The listmod doesn't like that sort of thing in her queue thread, and private messages about an upcoming game would have been inappropriate.

I'm also really not a fan of the no-lynch vote. We can discuss that as an option later in the day, but not before everyone has a chance to make Day 1 reads.

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Post Post #15  (isolation #2)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:47 pm

In post 14, -Grey- wrote:No Lynch is never an option on d1.


Yet you voted for it.

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Post Post #27  (isolation #3)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:58 pm

Garmr, why are your posts so fixated on Firebringer?

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Post Post #45  (isolation #4)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:07 pm

In post 36, Firebringer wrote:
In post 34, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also I cc miller so powerlynch Firebringer.

What if we are both miller? O_o


It's much, much likelier that one of you two is scum.

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Post Post #50  (isolation #5)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:11 pm

RC, you serious about your miller claim? Because if you are then we have at least a 50/50 chance of lynching scum Day 1 and that's a great place to start.

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Post Post #60  (isolation #6)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:14 pm

In post 54, Pepchoninga wrote:Fake claiming is very possible with miller. It is a common tactic. Tho you do seem to be saying the truth. This probably means RC has a good chance of being scum tho.


Pepchoninga, could you explain more specifically why you think Firebringer's claim is more credible than RC's?

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Post Post #70  (isolation #7)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:23 pm

In post 68, -Grey- wrote:Too early for Garmr. I think my opinion of Anotora is pretty obvious.


Judging by your ISO it would seem like I'm the only one in the game you have an opinion of.

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Post Post #84  (isolation #8)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:34 pm

In post 67, Frozen Angel wrote:a scum should be idiot to claim miller. (I'm sure Fire and RC are not idiots - :shifty: ) [I'm joking! I love you both] cause there is a meta to never let a miller reach mylo lylo.


I think it's more likely for a scum to claim miller early than for scum to counterclaim miller. This is in part because of how unlikely two millers are.

If Firebringer is scum, then claiming miller was a big risk for him that could also have paid off. On the other hand, if RadiantCowbells is scum, claiming miller would be a terrible move, since at best he'd get a mislynch on Firebringer and then be confirmed scum, and at worst he'd be lynched straight off Day 1.

It almost seems to me like we should put such a bad scum move past RC and vote Firebringer, but that's WIFOMy.

I'm not doing anything either way until RC confirms that his claim was serious.

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Post Post #89  (isolation #9)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:37 pm

In post 81, Frozen Angel wrote:ahh let me make the case then:

In post 14, -Grey- wrote:No. No Lynch is never an option on d1. That you are feigning objection to it for now and keeping it open as a possibility for later if town is amenable to it gives me scum vibes.


@Anotora , You stated your not a fan of Grey no lynch vote, but thats a topic to discus later in day. Grey beleives you're scum for pretending/suggesting No lynch is a viable discussable option in day 1.

what that makes you think about Grey and his rvs no lynch vote and then his next vote on you?


You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.

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Post Post #93  (isolation #10)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:39 pm

In post 88, Frozen Angel wrote:are you an alt or a new player? (If you don't mind answering ofc)


I played several years ago, but I'm trying to distance myself from my old account.

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Post Post #96  (isolation #11)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:42 pm

In post 92, Frozen Angel wrote:no I asked what that particular thing I said means to you.

Could you rephrase that? I don't understand.

-Grey- wrote:
In post 89, Anotora wrote:You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.


I'm protown for scumreading you with clear posts with actual points to them?

Sounds like a confession if I ever heard one.

VOTE: Anotora


Why are you votehopping?

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Post Post #110  (isolation #12)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:52 pm

Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 70, Anotora wrote:
In post 68, -Grey- wrote:Too early for Garmr. I think my opinion of Anotora is pretty obvious.


Judging by your ISO it would seem like I'm the only one in the game you have an opinion of.

In post 89, Anotora wrote:You're asking what my read on Grey is? My very early read on him is somewhat pro-town based on his actual scumhunting effort, with clear posts with clear points to them.


I like to know how these two post add up in you're mind. can you explain how someone who is picky on you has a pro town scum hunting effort?

and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"


Between the two posts of mine that you quoted, Grey posted
-Grey- post #80 wrote:If you want to claim common sense, them common sense should have told you that a real cc would have been accompanied with a vote.

and
-Grey- post #86 wrote:
In post 66, Pepchoninga wrote:I do get quite insulted when I'm called a newbie.


In post 82, Pepchoninga wrote:Fair enough, I haven't played with you lot, so I cannot talk about what one of you would or would not do.


VOTE: Pepto Ninja

Can't have it both ways, mate.

both of which I thought were productive. So I changed my attitude towards him.

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Post Post #112  (isolation #13)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:54 pm

In post 101, Frozen Angel wrote:and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"

I mean, it was a reasonable thing for him to criticize, especially considering that was only page 1 and we didn't have a lot to go off of.

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Post Post #115  (isolation #14)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:56 pm

In post 111, -Grey- wrote:VOTE: Pepto Ninja

Okay, I'm good with going back to this.


It almost seems like you're rewarding me for townreading you, by taking your vote off of me and putting it back on Pepchoninga. That's the scummiest thing you've done so far.

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Post Post #128  (isolation #15)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:08 pm

So, Garmr was active in this thread for an hour and literally all he did was (jokingly or not) buddy up to Firebringer and comment on Pepchoninga's newbieness.

That's... not a great contribution on his part.

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Post Post #141  (isolation #16)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:48 pm

In post 137, Obvious Alt wrote:
In post 34, RadiantCowbells wrote:It's time for us to gloriously VOTE: Draw.

All aboard choo choo choo.

Also I cc miller so powerlynch Firebringer.

Is this for real?
In post 36, Firebringer wrote:
In post 34, RadiantCowbells wrote:It's time for us to gloriously VOTE: Draw.

All aboard choo choo choo.

Also I cc miller so powerlynch Firebringer.

What if we are both miller? O_o

Super unlikely.


Thanks for getting us back on track. The fact that RadiantCowbells has ignored calls to double down on his miller counterclaim, is cause for action. Since ObviousAlt is here to play and doesn't seem anti-information as I worried she might, I'm going to move my vote to pressure RC.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

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Post Post #142  (isolation #17)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:55 pm

-Grey- and Garmr both use the same talking point(!) about RC's miller counterclaim. That is, "it can't be serious; if it was, then RC would have voted Firebringer."

But that's nonsense because RC did, in fact, vote Firebringer! Only four real-life minutes after posting the counterclaim! And RC's vote is still now on Firebringer!

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Post Post #148  (isolation #18)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:03 pm

In post 139, Garmr wrote:
In post 112, Anotora wrote:
In post 101, Frozen Angel wrote:and I mean I like to know what is your opinion about the fact that "he scum reads you for believing Not voting is a topic to be discussed later in day"

I mean, it was a reasonable thing for him to criticize, especially considering that was only page 1 and we didn't have a lot to go off of.

So it's ok early game to not say much ok.


Of all the strawmen. How can you even come close to interpreting that, as if I said it was okay not to contribute in the early game?

In post 139, Garmr wrote:
In post 115, Anotora wrote:
In post 111, -Grey- wrote:VOTE: Pepto Ninja

Okay, I'm good with going back to this.


It almost seems like you're rewarding me for townreading you, by taking your vote off of me and putting it back on Pepchoninga. That's the scummiest thing you've done so far.

But grey has such good town read right you think his points on pepchoninga were good from his perspective. You don't seem fussed with his actual reasoning to vote you in the first place. Seems like your just attacking here for a possible vote.


His actual reasoning to vote for me? I argued with it and won, which is why he took the vote off of me in the first place. As for my read on him, don't be disingenuous. I've made no bones about writing posts that sometimes criticize -Grey- and sometimes praise -Grey-.

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Post Post #151  (isolation #19)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:06 pm

In post 144, Srceenplay wrote:Garmr laid that out pretty good. Good job.

VOTE: Anotora


Hey everyone, if you ever want to see what a lurker looks like, go read Srceenplay's ISO.

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Post Post #155  (isolation #20)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:11 pm

In post 152, Garmr wrote:
In post 142, Anotora wrote:-Grey- and Garmr both use the same talking point(!) about RC's miller counterclaim. That is, "it can't be serious; if it was, then RC would have voted Firebringer."

But that's nonsense because RC did, in fact, vote Firebringer! Only four real-life minutes after posting the counterclaim! And RC's vote is still now on Firebringer!

His reasoning for voting firebringer was because firebringer didn't counter draw him (countervote him).

You are pretty much misrepresenting the scenario here.


Read -Grey-'s post very carefully and tell me if you still think he was talking about Firebringer's vote and not RC's vote.

Grey Post #80 wrote:If you want to claim common sense, them common sense should have told you that a real cc would have been accompanied with a vote.

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Post Post #160  (isolation #21)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:47 pm

In post 158, Garmr wrote:I was talking about rcs reasoning for voting firebringer not about grey.


In other words, you're saying that RC only voted Firebringer because Firebringer failed to vote for RC after RC counterclaimed him. Okay.

You and -Grey- have said that RC's counterclaim was obviously not serious. But if that's the case, if RC's counterclaim was in fact obviously not serious, then why would RC expect Firebringer to even care about the counterclaim, much less place a vote based on it?

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Post Post #162  (isolation #22)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Garmr, why shouldn't I want a fight to break out between the two same-claimed players? That's literally still our best chance of hitting scum today.

As for the business with questioning you, I don't see how that can possibly make me scummier than someone who isn't even questioning others at all. Like, say, srceenplay or RC.

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Post Post #168  (isolation #23)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:12 pm

As in, vote to call the entire game a draw. That is, a joke.

RC is carrying on this joke for far too long and I am quite comfortable keeping my vote on him for now.

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Post Post #195  (isolation #24)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:02 pm

I agree with Alisae's read on Srceenplay, although I don't know if we have enough material yet to call him opportunistic. Two of his votes (for Obvious Alt and myself) were both lazily added on after he let someone else make the case, so that could definitely be the start of a bad pattern. But the much bigger issue for me is how Srceenplay lurks. Srceenplay's last post especially annoyed me. "Ha! You caught me scummily lurking but nobody is going to do anything about it. Too bad for you!"

What I'd really like to know is what exactly does -Grey- disagree with in Alisae's case against Srceenplay?

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Post Post #200  (isolation #25)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:10 pm

Firebringer, if you're trying to buddy up to me, it's not working.

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Post Post #204  (isolation #26)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:18 pm

-Grey-, why are you so sure? Would you let me try to provoke him into writing meaningful content?

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Post Post #208  (isolation #27)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:34 pm

In post 206, -Grey- wrote:
In post 204, Anotora wrote:-Grey-, why are you so sure? Would you let me try to provoke him into writing meaningful content?


If you can provoke FB, I shall grant you one internet cookie.


Nice dodge.

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Post Post #214  (isolation #28)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:52 pm

VOTE: Srceenplay

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Post Post #219  (isolation #29)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:21 pm

So, we can't really talk much about it because of Rule 11 (ongoing games), but Srceenplay's meta is interesting and everyone here should definitely check it out.

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Post Post #223  (isolation #30)  » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:48 pm

I don't feel that I crossed the line into discussing anything that isn't okay to discuss. And I have absolutely nothing more to say about it. I'm trying to read up on everyone in general, though.

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Post Post #237  (isolation #31)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:02 am

-Grey-, it's over and dealt with. Cheers to the mod for dealing with my dumb move.

The Firebringer/Frozen Angel argument reads to me like TvT.

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Post Post #353  (isolation #32)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:15 am

Here's the sum up of what I think of all the active players so far, not that anyone asked.

-Grey-

+ Consistently good reasons for his votes, except obviously #94 is weird from my own perspective
+ Consistent tone
+ Independent of others

Alisae

+ Points out inconsistencies in others' play
? Wagoning the lurker
- Contribution is limited beyond "I like you", "I don't like you".

Firebringer

+ Believeable miller claim
? Non-substantial activity except for a few reads until the spat with Frozen Angel

Frozen Angel

+ Asks the right questions to move discussion forward

Garmr

- Only started building his strawmannish tunnel case on me after I pressured him at #128
+ Consistent productive activity

Obvious Alt

+ Good gut read from her single post
? Inactive

Pepchoninga

- Lots of non-substantial activity
- Says that he has a good read on -Grey- in #254, suspects -Grey- of a scumslip in #257, "it was a joke" in #262
- Acts extremely noncommittal and tries not to get in the thick of discussion. Has repeatedly expressed he wants a long day. #268 is abysmally bad.
- In #279 he postures noncommittally so as to maybe get on my wagon in the future. I think if he were town he would have straight up voted me instead of keeping the joke vote he's had on Srceenplay since page 3. Speaking of his srceenplay vote, he hasn't said a single word about it since that wagon turned serious. Suspicious.

RadiantCowbells
+ Independent of others
+ Productive activity

Srceenplay
- Lurking with non-substantial activity
- Does nothing when called out on this
- Sheeps onto wagons


I didn't realize how strong of a read I would get going through Pepchoninga's ISO, but now I find him real scummy. I think his strategy is to wait for a wagon that has a solid chance of resulting in a lynch. In the meantime, he talks a lot but really says nothing.

VOTE: Pepchoninga

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Post Post #356  (isolation #33)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:20 am

In post 355, -Grey- wrote:
In post 353, Anotora wrote:Frozen Angel

+ Asks the right questions to move discussion forward


So?

What has she done with the answers to those questions?


Not much, which is why I have a null-ish read on her.

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Post Post #359  (isolation #34)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:26 am

I felt like it was beside the point. I see positive value for the town in her posts so far.

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Post Post #368  (isolation #35)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:38 am

Oh! Pepcho! You're right, I completely missed your chiming in on Srceenplay in #289.

Screenplay hasn't stayed for an actual disscussion so you can actually say "Yes, he is here, but he isn't contributing". Also this isn't exactly the Screenplay I know, but he might just not have anything to go for still.


You are completely unjustified in defending Srceenplay like this, and a post like this gives ground to suspect a Pepcho/Srceenplay scumteam.

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Post Post #369  (isolation #36)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:39 am

In post 366, -Grey- wrote:
In post 353, Anotora wrote:Obvious Alt

+ Good gut read from her single post


In post 137, Obvious Alt wrote:Pending a confirmation from RC, my guy says Grey should go.

VOTE: Grey


Calling OA's scumread of your townread "good" is also lol.


There are thirteen players. OA can be town and be wrong about some of them.

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Post Post #370  (isolation #37)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:40 am

In post 367, Garmr wrote:
In post 356, Anotora wrote:
In post 355, -Grey- wrote:
In post 353, Anotora wrote:Frozen Angel

+ Asks the right questions to move discussion forward


So?

What has she done with the answers to those questions?


Not much, which is why I have a null-ish read on her.

I don't think she has asked any right question but lets go off what you said.

Your two answer contradict. You acknowledge that she has been asking questions yet she does nothing with them. This does nothing to push discussion forward it actually cuts it off as soon as a question is answered.


Other players have been following up her questions and moving things forward adequately.

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Post Post #372  (isolation #38)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:42 am

I'm saying that wrong reads are miles better than the posts that Srceenplay and Pepcho have been putting out.

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Post Post #374  (isolation #39)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:45 am

In post 373, -Grey- wrote:You're digging for excuses to base reads on instead of simply reading players.

A distinction without a difference.

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Post Post #378  (isolation #40)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:07 am

"Independent" and "produces good content" are actual things I thought about the players when I read their ISOs. Believe that they came from my town perspective, or don't.

Also how is independent a town trait and not a character trait.

If you seriously think this, then you must think that buddying and sheeping aren't scumtells. Which would actually explain why you like my wagon so much more than Srceenplay's, I guess.

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Post Post #381  (isolation #41)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:19 am

In post 379, Pepchoninga wrote:Good theory but I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just as many players here know each other and how they play, I also know Srceenplay a bit, since I'm curently playing in another game with him. He either is a very bad scum or has other good explanation for his bad contribution to the game and sometime cocky responses.

You're not "pointing out the obvious". Rather, you're reaching for ways to defend him, still, even now that I'm calling you out on it. And I find that absolutely fascinating.

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Post Post #382  (isolation #42)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:22 am

Let me be perfectly clear, then, if you don't think I'm clear enough. I think Pepcho/Srceenplay are a scum team, and the third scum is either one of the inactives or a relatively skillful player we can't root out yet with the given information.

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Post Post #385  (isolation #43)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:29 am

In post 383, Garmr wrote:Sheeping isn't a scum trait town can sheep as well. Also I'm town and I have budded up to firebringer because I want to make myself and firebringer a bigger threat to scum. If scum see's two town wanting to work together they will want to put a stop that because they are a threat end game to their existence.

No. Just... no.

Produces good content is to generic and can be applied anywhere. I would expect you to actually point out whats good content why it's good ect. Then again that would require thought which a townie would do and not a quick post to attempt to look town.`

This is the fairest criticism of me that you've put forth. I'll work on improving how specific my posts are.

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Post Post #386  (isolation #44)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:29 am

In post 384, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 382, Anotora wrote:Let me be perfectly clear, then, if you don't think I'm clear enough. I think Pepcho/Srceenplay are a scum team, and the third scum is either one of the inactives or a relatively skillful player we can't root out yet with the given information.

Great, we have a game solver...tbh, your recent posts seem to be very aggressive. Is it of frustration or because you are angry that your game plan didn't work? This isn't provocative or anything I'm just trying to see a reaction and an answer.

I'm being aggressive on purpose to put pressure on you.

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Post Post #392  (isolation #45)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:41 am

Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 381, Anotora wrote:
In post 379, Pepchoninga wrote:Good theory but I'm just pointing out the obvious. Just as many players here know each other and how they play, I also know Srceenplay a bit, since I'm curently playing in another game with him. He either is a very bad scum or has other good explanation for his bad contribution to the game and sometime cocky responses.

You're not "pointing out the obvious". Rather, you're reaching for ways to defend him, still, even now that I'm calling you out on it. And I find that absolutely fascinating.

I'm pointing out his flaws but also not pushing his button. Why should I? He hasn't made one good post. The only things against him are a bit of lurking and cockiness in his one liners. While this is suspicious it is something a not so active town could do too. Until he becomes more active and starts doing stuff I cannot get a clear opinion on him on Day 1. At least I think so. I don't know how you get your theory of me being scum buddies. You are panicking.


He hasn't made one good post, and how long exactly do you intend to wait for him to make one? The fact that he came into the thread, eight pages deep, to post such useless nothings as #216 and #218, is scummy, plain and simple. If your plan is to wait until he becomes more active before you can get a read on him, then you may never have a read on him! And wouldn't that be convenient.

Maybe I'm being impatient with him, but he practically scoffed at our requests for him to make substantive, town-helping posts. He did that two times, twenty minutes apart!

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Post Post #593  (isolation #46)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:43 pm

So, from my understanding, Pepcho voted for Srceenplay in RVS, kept the vote there for about fifteen pages, removed it "because my RVS vote seems to be causing so much trouble", and then just REVOTED Srceenplay for no additional reason because now he's under pressure to make a case.

...And people think my contribution is worse than his?

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Post Post #600  (isolation #47)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:54 pm

I really can see zero reason why any town-aligned players would rather take Srceenplay (or Pepcho, but that's more debatable) to D2 than take me to D2.

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Post Post #607  (isolation #48)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:57 pm

In post 601, -Grey- wrote:^ can we lynch this now?


Ideally not before squeezing some useful D1 thoughts out of Obvious Alt, mlmooney, and Keyen.

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Post Post #613  (isolation #49)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:01 pm

Pepcho, you do realize that you and srceenplay are screwed after I flip town, right?

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Post Post #623  (isolation #50)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:38 pm

Throughout this entire game, Pepcho has only rarely voted in accord with his own scumreads. He's scummy.

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Post Post #643  (isolation #51)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:52 pm

I have work for the next eight hours, so if I could not be lynched during this time, that would be great. I know I'm only at L-2 but if I am put at L-1 I wouldn't put it past scum to quickhammer.

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Post Post #673  (isolation #52)  » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:42 pm

If anyone hammers before I get off work and can maje a good post, it's. A major scumtell.

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Post Post #687  (isolation #53)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:34 am

In post 638, Garmr wrote:
In post 598, Alisae wrote:
In post 596, RadiantCowbells wrote:Why do you dislike it Alisae?

UNVOTE:
Feels like they're trying to derail the wagon by shadethrowing.

To be fair alisae anotora has been shade throwing at their town reads the whole game.


You act like it's a crime to notice both townish and scummish things that a given player does. Don't act as if I'm being unclear on who my main scum suspects are. I'm not. I have not been wishy-washy. I just want to take all a player's pros and cons into account, rather than making tunnel cases. Which I think is a big difference you and I have.

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Post Post #688  (isolation #54)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:38 am

I can hardly believe I'm saying this, but Srceenplay is right and Alisae is wrong in this claiming argument. Town has nothing to gain from me claiming, but scum would be happy to see me do it.

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Post Post #690  (isolation #55)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:06 am

So, guys, here's my case for why lynching me today is a bad idea:

- Whether I flip scum or town (hint: I will flip town), mine is a relatively low-information lynch compared to the info you would be getting from lynching Pepcho or Srceenplay. I really haven't engaged much yet directly with people like Frozen Angel and RadiantCowbells, but if you learn something from Pepcho's flip, you end up learning something about pretty much every other player in the game except kentofan. And if Srceenplay winds up being scum, which is very likely, then you will learn a *heck of a lot* based on who was willing to defend his scummy activity and who wasn't. To be explicit about it, if Srceenplay flips scum, we can pretty much proceed to wagon Pepcho D2 unless/until new information comes up.

- I am an active poster, and that alone makes me worth keeping around. At least I don't try to obstruct others from reading me the way Srceenplay has the whole game (and Pepcho has done on occasion with meaningless posts). I'd much rather the town doesn't carry dead weight like Srceenplay on its back. Even if I'm scum, which I'm not, wouldn't you rather have me be an obvious suspect later on, than be stuck with Srceenplay or Pepcho clouding the waters?

- Pepcho and Srceenplay are, in fact, scummier than I am. Maybe I still have a long way to go, convincing people of this, but it's true. All game long, Srceenplay's posts have been just terrible, and he's only improved them in hopes of warding off his newfound wagon. Pepcho's gameplay, to me, absolutely screams out bussing. Peeps like Garmr and Grey have been on my case for what feels like the lion's share of the day now, but my posting has wavered little. You can't say that about either of them, and it's really suspicious.

I realize this post might make it sound like I favor a Srceenplay lynch moreso than a Pepcho lynch. That isn't true. I think Pepcho is a lot worse than Srceenplay because Pepcho has gone out of his way to defend another scummy player, while the reverse is not true. But it seems like the rest of the playerlist sees Srceenplay as the main alternative to lynching me. I'm okay with that, though not thrilled.

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Post Post #695  (isolation #56)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:22 am

Pepcho, I still feel comfortable reading your post #289 as a defense of your pal, and I hope everyone else takes a look at it, too.

You're right to demand an explanation from RC about the vote/unvote thing, though.

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Post Post #697  (isolation #57)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:27 am

In post 694, -Grey- wrote:{-Grey-}
{RadiantCowbells, Garmr}
{Frozen Angel, Firebringer}
{Obvious Alt, mlmooney89, kentofan}
{Srceenplay, KNPD, Alisae}
{Anotora, PeptoNinja}


You've only really posted regarding keyenpeedee once, in post #486. I think it's interesting that you put keyenpeedee and Srceenplay on the same tier of scumminess. Srceenplay is really far scummier than keyenpeedee and I think almost everyone but you can agree to that.

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Post Post #699  (isolation #58)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:30 am

You don't get to decide how your posts are read by others, Pep. That's kind of the point of the game.

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Post Post #706  (isolation #59)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:43 am

In post 701, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 699, Anotora wrote:You don't get to decide how your posts are read by others, Pep. That's kind of the point of the game.

Yes I do, when you are completely shifting there meaning. This is common tactic of scum. You are shifting my comment so they can apeal to your cause when I've explained multiple times the meaning of that post.

So I'm gonna ask you now. You gonna claim?


Rolefishers gonna rolefish, lol

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Post Post #711  (isolation #60)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:52 am

I think what happened is -Grey- realized his Alisae scumread only makes sense in a context where Alisae and I are not a scumteam.

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Post Post #720  (isolation #61)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:01 am

In post 718, Pepchoninga wrote:If anything if he claims it will seem more that he would like to cooperate. Combine this with him actually making a case on somebody and yes, he might escape the lynch. Him refusing to acknowledge people asking him to reveal his role just seems more scummy.


Do you expect town to actually believe these lines?

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Post Post #725  (isolation #62)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:07 am

Y'know, I was going to go to sleep, but maybe it's better for the town if I just stay up so that you can keep talking.

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Post Post #726  (isolation #63)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:21 am

In post 713, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 706, Anotora wrote:
In post 701, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 699, Anotora wrote:You don't get to decide how your posts are read by others, Pep. That's kind of the point of the game.

Yes I do, when you are completely shifting there meaning. This is common tactic of scum. You are shifting my comment so they can apeal to your cause when I've explained multiple times the meaning of that post.

So I'm gonna ask you now. You gonna claim?


Rolefishers gonna rolefish, lol

I'm not role fishing. But you are trying to make me look bad with ONE quote. You don't have a good case on me and you don't seem in the slightest to be interested in digging up one. Also lets not forget your contradict way of reading the way and not having any real arguments against any of your case. You seem to be trying to look active by making big post where you just say how people look more scummy then you.

UNVOTE: Srceenplay

VOTE: Anotora


This is thinly veiled OMGUS btw

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Post Post #727  (isolation #64)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:22 am

I think Pepcho is mad at me for re-rousing -Grey-'s suspicion of him. Hah.

(Sorry for the triple post.)

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Post Post #802  (isolation #65)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:57 pm

How can you possibly say he's dodging answering your questions. You're replying to his response to those questions!

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Post Post #814  (isolation #66)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:20 pm

In post 805, Frozen Angel wrote:
why misunderstanding and remembering events in a wrong order - when there was a reason for remembering them in wrong order (RC unvoted agian later which made me think anoto was L1 when pap asked for claim) is scummy?


But I dropped back to L2 waaayyy before Pep tried to make me claim. There should have been no confusion.

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Post Post #822  (isolation #67)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:25 pm

In post 817, Frozen Angel wrote:
I wasn't online when the whole hammering things happened and skimmed through those pages. I was remembering RC was voting you and he just unvoted when I was posting again.


That's a scummy explanation when it comes from someone who almost always uses preview-edits.

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Post Post #827  (isolation #68)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:28 pm

Would you like to chime in any more than that, Srceenplay?

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Post Post #869  (isolation #69)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:51 pm

Has anyone here ever seen town publicly declare intent to just hang around and prod-dodge? No?

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Post Post #878  (isolation #70)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:04 pm

We're only 48 hours into the game. Considering how fast things the game is moving and how worked up we can get, if Frozen is town, then the most pro-town thing for her to do would be to step back, take a rest, and come back to play tomorrow.

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Post Post #881  (isolation #71)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:07 pm

Well, I still have a worse gut feeling about Pepcho, so no, absolutely not.

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Post Post #884  (isolation #72)  » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:10 pm

If we believe you when you say you're town, then we shouldn't lynch your slot. It's not complicated.

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Post Post #1067  (isolation #73)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:44 am

That's L-1, I'm pretty sure? Just throwing that out there for everyone's benefit.

Back home to make a SAJ read and updated RC/FA reads in a few minutes.

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Post Post #1073  (isolation #74)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:58 am

FA, I'm not seeing the post where SAJ reads Pepcho as town. Yes, SAJ ought to put more explanation into his vote, but it's not as scummy as if he had contradicted his own read.

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Post Post #1081  (isolation #75)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:05 am

What I'm getting from this generally is that SAJ is overeager to lynch. That is bad. Thanks for the expansion/clarification, FA.

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Post Post #1083  (isolation #76)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:06 am

I am continually blown away at how Pepcho reads my refusal to claim as scummy.

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Post Post #1090  (isolation #77)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:10 am

In post 1085, Alisae wrote:
In post 1083, Anotora wrote:I am continually blown away at how Pepcho reads my refusal to claim as scummy.
I find it hypocritical at the same time considering the situation he is in.


You seem to get it.

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Post Post #1093  (isolation #78)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:11 am

In post 1087, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1083, Anotora wrote:I am continually blown away at how Pepcho reads my refusal to claim as scummy.

I don't read your REFUSAL as a scum sign. I read your total refusal to aknowledge both mine and Alisae's comments about a claim and then after being very aggresuve before, become cocky and calm after you got the support of Grey.


My acknowledgement of your and Alisae's comments was to call both of you rolefishers.

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Post Post #1105  (isolation #79)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:20 am

In post 1101, Pepchoninga wrote:
And would prefer to be kept at an L-1


The town motivation for this, Pepcho??????

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Post Post #1114  (isolation #80)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:31 am

Get the whole sentence cuz I'm not feeling suspicious just because of the cocky remarks.

Okay. Yeah. Let's "get the whole sentence." I've got it right here:

"He [Anotora] made some cocky remarks and this is something that is really suspicious to me."

That's the whole sentence. Which you wrote. There is exactly one noun in the sentence: remarks. Specifically my remarks, which you modified with the adjective "cocky". There are no other nouns in the sentence. So clearly, when you used the pronoun "this", you must have been referring to the remarks, which you mentioned earlier in the sentence. Therefore, we can take the pronoun "this", and we can replace it with its antecedent, "some cocky remarks". Thus, the second independent clause in your sentence would read,

"Some cocky remarks [by Anotora] [are] really suspicious to me."

But now you're trying to distance yourself from the fact that you said this. Which is *scummy*. This is my best shot at getting through to you why you deserve to be at L-2 or worse right now. I don't know if it'll work.

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Post Post #1115  (isolation #81)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:32 am

In post 1108, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1105, Anotora wrote:
In post 1101, Pepchoninga wrote:
And would prefer to be kept at an L-1


The town motivation for this, Pepcho??????

If you truly belive I'm scum I want to be kept at an L-1. But I also wanna be given a good chance to defend myself. I want cases against me and an opportunity to get a counter argument.

That didn't even remotely come close to answering.

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Post Post #1121  (isolation #82)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:40 am

I don't think SAJ post #1058 (the Pepcho vote) is scummy for the same reasons that FA has stated, but it sure is opportunistic as hell.

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Post Post #1136  (isolation #83)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:56 am

In post 1126, Pepchoninga wrote:

Well he seemed irritated when he was at L-1 and nobody would really listen to him (I kinda can relate to that atm) and then suddenly Geey lynched me for reasons I still can't understand and all of a sudden Ano started being more calm like he was absolutely sure that he won't get lynched. He made some cocky remarks and this is something that is really suspicious to me.[/quote]

Ok Ano don't be a bitch and read the whole thing. That is why I'm suspicious.[/quote]

I mean I guess that's an argument for me and -Grey- being a scumteam, if you had legit reasons to scumread me in the first place, before all this business.

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Post Post #1141  (isolation #84)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:01 am

In post 1129, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 1121, Anotora wrote:I don't think SAJ post #1058 (the Pepcho vote) is scummy for the same reasons that FA has stated, but it sure is opportunistic as hell.


what do you mean when you say opportunistic?


I mean there's a strong possibility that SAJ only L-1'ed Pepcho in hopes of Pepcho getting hammered very soon, and the day ending very soon.

Sorry about the botched quote. >_<

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Post Post #1147  (isolation #85)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:08 am

In post 1144, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1142, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 1141, Anotora wrote:I mean there's a strong possibility that SAJ only L-1'ed Pepcho in hopes of Pepcho getting hammered very soon, and the day ending very soon.


This is not just a possibility

He obviously voted to just end the day.

if its a buss or just a very anti-town approach is the question

Really it's hard to say wether he wanted to hammer me or lynch me faster or anything else. We don Have much from him.


Well, FA, since Pepcho is now defending SAJ's approach, I'm gonna go with bus rather than just anti-town.

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Post Post #1148  (isolation #86)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:12 am

In post 1146, Pepchoninga wrote:
Anotora wrote:I mean I guess that's an argument for me and -Grey- being a scumteam, if you had legit reasons to scumread me in the first place, before all this business.

Well yes, I did. If you'd like to hear I will make a post about it. My opinion on you hasn't really changed. A scum partnership between you two is possible. Yes, this could be an argument for that, but I'm not acusing you of being scum buddies.

(quote bolded by myself)

The fact that you haven't already made a post about it says a lot about us both.

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Post Post #1155  (isolation #87)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:19 am

In post 1152, Pepchoninga wrote:Ummm, I already made enough posts trying to justify my vote on you back when you were a hot topic.

I would argue that you never had your vote on me during the period when I was a "hot topic"! You had it on Srceenplay the entire time, and you were the very last person onto my wagon before it dissipated.

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Post Post #1248  (isolation #88)  » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:48 am

-Grey-, she is referring to this:
In post 1147, Anotora wrote:
In post 1144, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1142, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 1141, Anotora wrote:I mean there's a strong possibility that SAJ only L-1'ed Pepcho in hopes of Pepcho getting hammered very soon, and the day ending very soon.


This is not just a possibility

He obviously voted to just end the day.

if its a buss or just a very anti-town approach is the question

Really it's hard to say wether he wanted to hammer me or lynch me faster or anything else. We don Have much from him.


Well, FA, since Pepcho is now defending SAJ's approach, I'm gonna go with bus rather than just anti-town.

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Post Post #1715  (isolation #89)  » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:21 pm

In post 1712, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1705, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 1693, Pepchoninga wrote:
In post 1680, RadiantCowbells wrote:I am voting a scumread. Do you specifically want me to vote SAJ?

You should vote someone if you belive you do. Anything else is you just trying to look less scummy.

Also you completely ignored everything I got on you before my lynch. Like how can you exolain that you said that SAJ was your only SR that you weren't really sure about and then you put him higher on your scum radar then me, when you have been wanting me lynched for a long time?


How can reads change when they are supposed to literally stay static the entire game because changing circumstances never changes anything!!!!

I will guess this is sarcasm.

Well let me ask you this. You say that the only lynch today should be me. You say that it's the right lynch and tell people to get back on it. You also say that SAJ is the scumread you are least certain about. Then you start getting questioned why don't you lynch SAJ when he is obviously inconsistent and scummy. You post reads and bam! I'm more of a null then SAJ. A miracle! Now can you find me the inconsistencies?


This is alarmingly good posting from you.
UNVOTE: Pepcho

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Post Post #1720  (isolation #90)  » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:27 pm

RadiantCowbells wrote:Pepcho's posting has been shitty and inconsistent throughout the game. The only reason to not be positive Pepcho is scum is if you feel that SAJ was opportunistically jumping wagons earlier.

Good thing we've already been over that, then:
In post 1121, Anotora wrote:I don't think SAJ post #1058 (the Pepcho vote) is scummy for the same reasons that FA has stated, but it sure is opportunistic as hell.

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Post Post #1817  (isolation #91)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:16 am

In post 1811, Alisae wrote:I'll also claim VT because everyone is claiming and it's what cool kids like to do.

How about we don't do that.

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Post Post #1820  (isolation #92)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:19 am

In post 1819, Alisae wrote:Also it's a gambit.


VOTE: Alisae
Lynch all liars.

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Post Post #1822  (isolation #93)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:22 am

In post 1821, Alisae wrote:
In post 1820, Anotora wrote:
In post 1819, Alisae wrote:Also it's a gambit.


VOTE: Alisae
Lynch all liars.
Trying to start a policy lynch when Jin is at L-1.
FA, what does this read to you as?

I think it's REALLY INTERESTING that you're specifically asking FA for an opinion.

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Post Post #1831  (isolation #94)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:29 am

I have a pretty good feeling that one out of the three pairs {FA, Alisae}, {SAJ, RC}, {Pepto, Srceenplay} is both scum. The third scum in any case is more difficult to figure.

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Post Post #1832  (isolation #95)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:30 am

In post 1825, Alisae wrote:Here's the thing. They were scumread the whole game. And then they soft PR and all the attention is off them.
They unvote lynchbait after keeping their vote on them for most of the game instead of moving onto another scum read.
This really reads to me as trying to divert the wagon off of her scum buddy.


I'm gonna have an opinion on the Jin wagon up really soon.

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Post Post #1856  (isolation #96)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:01 am

KNPD's legacy seems to be like 80% just joining in and agreeing with whatever seemed to be town consensus at the time. SAJ's tone/activity level reads quite similarly to KNPD in a certain intuitive way. SAJ active-lurked until pressure was put upon him. I might hammer depending on my next read through of the whole thread, untangling the web of claims, waiting for -Grey- to declare a target, of course.

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Post Post #1875  (isolation #97)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:30 am

SAJ-scum meshes so well with my established belief of Pep-scum.

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Post Post #1898  (isolation #98)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:45 am

In post 1420, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Alright Garmr, i guess i see your point BUT she does give reads of people, especially 624 except they do seem a bit rushed and soft. I honestly dont know what to feel about Mlmooney. She hasnt posted that much but there is content (more than just fluff posts). Her ISO gives me a headache since i cant decide if she is a real busy lurker town or intentionally lurking as scum.

Holy wishy-washyness, Batman.

I'm gonna get to your questions, FA.

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Post Post #1907  (isolation #99)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:50 am

I am so, so confused at why people think SAJ flipping red will prove Pepcho innocent.

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Post Post #1929  (isolation #100)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:02 am

In post 1924, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I honestly am 100% lost, i read through the thread but i am pretty sure this is the last time i replace in to a game that has 40-50 pages before i am placed. This flip on me or anyone will lend a lot of info. I know i am going to be hammered and i say this next thing not to shed votes but to let you all know to please read people hard tomorrow. I am a VT, i am town. I read Grey off of how he treated FA and Pepeter Griffin (Pep). Even if you believe Grey is town, just read people really thoroughly on D2.

Either FA is town and is pushing me because i havent lent much to the game or she is scum pushing an easy lynch.
You all know i dont like Grey's attitude and actions but he might be town or scum.
I really believe in my heart that Pep is town.

All that matters is that you all get this game on the right track and work together. This is a glory fest for scum to hide or push willy nilly. Please win town, beat those scum.

I feel your same frustration with the pace of the game but you're just straight AtE'ing.

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Post Post #1936  (isolation #101)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:08 am

In post 1930, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
In post 1927, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 1924, Secret Agent Jin wrote:I really believe in my heart that Pep is town.


why you voted him?

I voted him because Grey was pushing against him so hard that i knew when he flipped town i could push a Grey wagon very easily.


"I purposefully shot for a mislynch so that I could push a certain player's wagon easily the next day."

That is not a town motivation! That is a scum motivation! Scum!

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Post Post #1951  (isolation #102)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:21 am

I just realized it makes zero sense for -Grey-'s claimed role to announce targets in advance.

Like Firebringer and Panther have said, it should only be used to confirm town.

Because if he announces that he's going to investigate someone, scum can just kill him to frame whomever he investigated.

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Post Post #1956  (isolation #103)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:27 am

I don't see how you RBing someone makes a difference.

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Post Post #1960  (isolation #104)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:30 am

In post 1957, Frozen Angel wrote:I'm not a role blocker

I am a rolestopper

:facepalm:

I knew I was missing out on something really big as it related to your role power. I thought that "rolestopper" was just the new terminology for roleblocker or something. What is the difference? I'm so sorry.

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Post Post #1964  (isolation #105)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:37 am

So the possibilities are:

-Grey- dies, flips his claimed role, we get two confirmed scum (you and his target)
or
-Grey- lives and we get a semiconfirmed town.

The only risk is that there might be a scum RB who can block you from protecting -Grey-.

I get it now.

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Post Post #1966  (isolation #106)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:41 am

[unvote]

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Post Post #1969  (isolation #107)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:43 am

UNVOTE:

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Post Post #1970  (isolation #108)  » Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:47 am

In post 1859, Frozen Angel wrote:I'm - and so many other people are not voting SAj for keyen replace out. That is a hardcore misrepresentation.

What do you mean he active lurked till pressure? He had two posts before pressure and he presented a case/point of view in his first one.

I said SAJ; I meant the slot in general.

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Post Post #2026  (isolation #109)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:01 pm

In post 2025, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'd need a massclaim and I don't want a massclaim today.

I'm waiting for FA to claim before I do anything else.


FA already claimed D1. Duh.

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Post Post #2029  (isolation #110)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:09 pm

In post 2028, RadiantCowbells wrote:
In post 2026, Anotora wrote:
In post 2025, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'd need a massclaim and I don't want a massclaim today.

I'm waiting for FA to claim before I do anything else.


FA already claimed D1. Duh.


If she claims not roleblocked then she is confscum because a strongman in this setup is basically impossible.
If she claims roleblocked then we can carry on and see if we lynch a roleblocker.


There doesn't need to be a strongman for -Grey- to die overnight. Even if FA successfully made -Grey- a bulletproof ascetic, -Grey- would then be a weak bulletproof ascetic. He'd still die if you were scum.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

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Post Post #2033  (isolation #111)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:34 pm

Yes. -Grey- targeted RC. So we work off of this:

In post 1965, Frozen Angel wrote:No if he dies that means his target is scum OR I was scum who killed him myself and didn't role stop him


Let's think about the scumteam's incentives to go down each road. In each of these scenarios, scum believe -Grey-'s claim at face value. I feel that's likely.

IF RC IS SCUM: -Grey- is going to die. Scum is under significant pressure to protect RC from being confirmed scum by the -Grey-/FA role combo. Their best shot at that is to frame FA as scum who killed -Grey-. In this case, their optimal move is to no-kill and let -Grey- die from his weakness. If they killed someone besides -Grey-, the resulting two night deaths would confirm that -Grey- had a guilty investigative result on RC. This is an unacceptable outcome for scum.

IF FA IS SCUM: Since -Grey- will not die of weakness, there may only be one night death (a scum kill) or none. -Grey- is not made bulletproof ascetic, because FA claiming rolestopper was a lie. If scum is going to kill N1, they should obviously kill -Grey-, as they would rather the night result in a town death (-Grey-'s) and WIFOM over whether RC is scum or not, not some other town death and a living -Grey- who has innocent result on RC.

IF BOTH ARE SCUM: -Grey- is going to die. Scum gets to decide whether they want to kill someone else. As we said earlier, two town deaths (-Grey- and someone else) would be tantamount to confirming RC as scum. As in the first two cases, best to just let -Grey- die and thereby obfuscate who caused his death.

IF NEITHER ARE SCUM: -Grey- is a bulletproof ascetic targeting town, so there is no way for him to die. This is impossible. He died. Therefore at least one of FA and RC is scum.

Let me repeat that. If neither FA or RC is scum, then last night -Grey- would have been made a bulletproof ascetic who was, at the time, targeting town. We know that this is not the case because he died.

We know for a certain fact that one of FA or RC is scum. Yet, for some reason, RC isn't voting FA!!!

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Post Post #2037  (isolation #112)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:46 pm

If scum had a roleblocker, and both you and FA were town, the scum team's best move would have been to roleblock FA and kill you, so that -Grey- confirming you as a townie would be useless. They didn't do that. You're alive. You or FA is scum.

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Post Post #2039  (isolation #113)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:55 pm

In post 2038, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 2037, Anotora wrote:If scum had a roleblocker, and both you and FA were town, the scum team's best move would have been to roleblock FA and kill you, so that -Grey- confirming you as a townie would be useless. They didn't do that. You're alive. You or FA is scum.

What if a doctor healed someone?

If a doctor healed someone then RC is scum because that's the only way we end up with both a -Grey- death and a prevented death.

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Post Post #2040  (isolation #114)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:22 pm

In post 2017, RadiantCowbells wrote:I mean I didn't say much but it doesn't take a genius to realize there has to be some sort of scum roleblocking power.
If FA is town that means that there's both a weak cop and a 1-shot proteector for them. That's cop/doc interaction and would never go through without a roleblocker.


Sure it would. That's the reason they're weak and 1-shot, respectively.

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Post Post #2044  (isolation #115)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:36 pm

In post 2041, RadiantCowbells wrote:
AND BWAHAHAHAH WHY WOULD SCUM ROLEBLOCK FA AND KILL ME!?
THEY COULD KILL ME ANYWAY I WASN'T PROTECTED.


Scum is clearly better off in a world where -Grey-'s power could have been neutered by killing his declared target. Since they didn't do that, we the town now have more information.

I think the only reason scum didn't kill -Grey-'s target is because -Grey- targeted scum and was therefore going to die.

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Post Post #2045  (isolation #116)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:37 pm

If you're truly town, FA, the scum should've killed you so that -Grey-'s inno on you was NAI for anyone in the game.

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Post Post #2046  (isolation #117)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:38 pm

In post 2045, Anotora wrote:If you're truly town, RC, the scum should've killed you so that -Grey-'s inno on you was NAI for anyone in the game.

Edited. Was talking to RC, of course. Not FA

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Post Post #2048  (isolation #118)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:55 pm

You're just posturing now, and once the rest of the town comes they'll see right through it.

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Post Post #2059  (isolation #119)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:13 pm

Gamma, have you read any posts between #250-1750? Your ISO doesn't show you reacting to any of them...

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Post Post #2062  (isolation #120)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:15 pm

FoS: Gamma

It's your job to make reads based on them.

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Post Post #2078  (isolation #121)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:08 pm

In post 2067, RadiantCowbells wrote:I don't give a shit what remaining town thinks their opinions are, your lynch order is FA->Anotora->Pepcho.

And then just continue down the line, lynching everyone who thinks you're scummy, right?

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Post Post #2083  (isolation #122)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:16 pm

FA, if you are a 1-shot and you targeted -Grey- overnight, why would there be any question as to how many shots you are left with? Very fishy.

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Post Post #2091  (isolation #123)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:23 pm

I still think RC-scum is more likely than FA-scum (could be both!) but this is enough to make me

UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells

Until Yoshi is back and FA has something concrete for us.

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Post Post #2095  (isolation #124)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:24 pm

In post 2090, Srceenplay wrote:Why does it matter if you have a shot? If from above in normal you lose your shot from rb what is it that you will be able to confirm?


The logic is that we could be catching FA in a lie here.

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Post Post #2100  (isolation #125)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:26 pm

In post 2094, Frozen Angel wrote:[

pedit : if my shot is refunded Its confirmed that I was roleblocked.


So now we have you on record saying this with certainty.

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Post Post #2106  (isolation #126)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:30 pm

Alisae, to me, voting someone means that I'm okay with going to sleep, waking up in the morning, and finding out that player was lynched with my vote on the wagon.

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Post Post #2113  (isolation #127)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:32 pm

In post 2107, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 2100, Anotora wrote:
In post 2094, Frozen Angel wrote:[

pedit : if my shot is refunded Its confirmed that I was roleblocked.


So now we have you on record saying this with certainty.


Yes its fucking obvious that if my shot is refunded then I was roleblocked. How that was news to you?


Sorry, I thought you phrased it the opposite way. As if you were saying that you knew if you were roleblocked, then your shot would be refunded. Which is not what you in fact said.

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Post Post #2114  (isolation #128)  » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:33 pm

In post 2109, Alisae wrote:And your timezone is what exactly?

It is 10:30pm here.

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Post Post #2120  (isolation #129)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:11 am

Screw it, you're just so especially antitown.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Anotora's unvote feels like scum who sees an opportunity to push a double ML

I don't see two mislynches happening the next two days. No way no how.

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Post Post #2122  (isolation #130)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:16 am


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Post Post #2131  (isolation #131)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:48 am

In post 2130, RadiantCowbells wrote:Alright FA. One time only. I am willing to offer you a truce until the end of the day. I won't try to lynch you if you don't try to lynch me. All bets off tomorrow. Take it or leave it.

UNVOTE:


Why?

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Post Post #2134  (isolation #132)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:50 am

Only scum try to make bargains like that.

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Post Post #2138  (isolation #133)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:55 am

In post 2135, RadiantCowbells wrote:2) If you are town, we can work together and lynch other scum and perhaps get a roleblocker flip that will make both of our lives a lot easier.

"Other scum"? That's a slip if there's ever been one in this game.

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Post Post #2147  (isolation #134)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:14 am

If you can convince the town that a scum RB'er blocking FA and killing -Grey- to frame you is more plausible than you being scum, then more power to you. You will deserve your scum victory.

As for me, I see through that garbage and I'm confident the rest of the town will, too.

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Post Post #2198  (isolation #135)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:30 am

In post 2190, Alisae wrote:RC Either way your play has been anti-town this whole game and you should honestly be policy lynched.
Wanting to not let Panther's slot replace in during the day.
Selfvoting yourself with a bunch of disgusting AtE.
Voting obv town.
A bunch of anti-town bullshit that should really not be let go.

QFT.

I'm gonna call it RC, Pepcho, and one of the less active players.

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Post Post #2205  (isolation #136)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:34 am

The RB'er wasn't to combat you or -Grey-. It was to combat Garmr. It makes so much sense.

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Post Post #2243  (isolation #137)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:55 am

UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells

Took me a hot minute to digest everything that was going on.

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Post Post #2246  (isolation #138)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:57 am

In post 2241, RadiantCowbells wrote:Pepcho is a bad lynch because we should dig for the roleblocker if there is one. It is not likely to be the person who committed the nightkill.

It's stated explicitly in the rules that it couldn't have been.

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Post Post #2248  (isolation #139)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:58 am

In post 2233, Frozen Angel wrote:Pep and ano barely talked

What are you smoking

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Post Post #2253  (isolation #140)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:00 am

In post 2249, Frozen Angel wrote:screen is town if pep is scum btw. Too much giggly stuff that can't be fake

All game I've tended to agree that they're same-aligned.

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Post Post #2258  (isolation #141)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:02 am

Pepcho defended Srceenplay TONS in the early game. It was what I disliked most about Pepcho.

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Post Post #2268  (isolation #142)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:09 am

Yeah, I can get on board with that. It would force some relatively inactive peeps back in.

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Post Post #2282  (isolation #143)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:23 am

I'm a vanilla townie. Like -Grey- suspected, I only softed PR to try and draw a nightkill since I thought I'd be mislynch bait later on. I was feeling overwhelmed in my semi-newbness.

Popcorn to Gamma.

Come off of it, RC.

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Post Post #2290  (isolation #144)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:25 am

In post 2278, Frozen Angel wrote:pep attacked me when I asked for pushing/lynching Gamma later in game before N1 started as well.

ano quote a post where pap was defending screen and explain how is that scum - scum budding.


In post 368, Anotora wrote:Oh! Pepcho! You're right, I completely missed your chiming in on Srceenplay in #289.

Screenplay hasn't stayed for an actual disscussion so you can actually say "Yes, he is here, but he isn't contributing". Also this isn't exactly the Screenplay I know, but he might just not have anything to go for still.


You are completely unjustified in defending Srceenplay like this, and a post like this gives ground to suspect a Pepcho/Srceenplay scumteam.


Pepcho appears to be purposefully wishy-washy when he talks about Srceenplay, in a way he isn't when he's talking about other players.

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Post Post #2296  (isolation #145)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:27 am

Not gonna lie, RC, you're giving me some serious giggles with the Srceenplay meme.

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Post Post #2299  (isolation #146)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:29 am

In post 2298, Firebringer wrote:
In post 2294, Frozen Angel wrote:actually pep-anno-gamma seems decent

gamma hasn't claimed completely yet ano? if yes you know that why?

pedit : Fire I am not scum FFS

I am the only person who claimed a protective role, THINK

Well I kind of think that death clears RC from being scum.
So either scum are framing u or your trying to frame RC.


That seemed to be the case until Garmr's claim, which you'll read.

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Post Post #2301  (isolation #147)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:31 am

In post 2294, Frozen Angel wrote:gamma hasn't claimed completely yet ano? if yes you know that why?


I would imagine there are possible situations where Gamma would only want to claim the ascetic part of his role, leaving some of it out. That's for him to say, though.

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Post Post #2305  (isolation #148)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:35 am

In post 2304, Alisae wrote:Woke up just to say that I remember someone saying something along the lines of Grey was shot therefore RC is town?
I would like to remind everyonr that's shit logic.

Are you suggesting Pepcho would sacrifice his teammate RC? That's possible but I really doubt Pepcho is capable of such a bold move.

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Post Post #2312  (isolation #149)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:40 am

In post 2307, Frozen Angel wrote:What if pep is a strongman

we can't be sure of that before his flip


If your -Grey- target didn't go through, then it doesn't matter whether Pepcho is a strongman or not... Is this a slip?

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Post Post #2313  (isolation #150)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:41 am

In post 2311, Firebringer wrote:Let's lynch pepcho.
VOTE: pepcho

If pepcho flips town we lynch RC.

More confidant RC is town than pepcho


Nah, if Pepcho flips town we lynch Garmr.

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Post Post #2320  (isolation #151)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:49 am

Supposing Pepcho flips green (and that's a pretty big SUPPOSE) he'll either be vanilla (lynch Garmr because Garmr lied about an investigative result) or a PR that could reasonably have been applied to -Grey- N1 (lynch RC).

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Post Post #2322  (isolation #152)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:56 am

No special flavor in Normal games.

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Post Post #2328  (isolation #153)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:09 am

In post 2327, Garmr wrote:If pep does actually turn out to be strongman FA needs to be lynched as scum wouldn't of cared if she used her role on grey. They would of killed him anyway and if they did have a roleblock their roleblock would of been better used elsewhere than on fa.


You make sense.

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Post Post #2372  (isolation #154)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:44 pm

In post 2366, RadiantCowbells wrote:I get that reasoning, but have you considered there could be two ascetics on both alignments to further neuter the insane investigative potential that town has?

It's only really insane potential if you take mlmooney's claim for fact.

VOTE: Pepchoninga

TBH I'm totally stoked to have my suspicion of Pepcho somewhat confirmed.

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Post Post #2378  (isolation #155)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:54 pm

In post 2377, RadiantCowbells wrote:It's conspiracy level bullshit to suggest that Garmr is scum here.

Exactly. The reason I distrust mlmooney's claim is because I almost fully trust Garmr.

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Post Post #2380  (isolation #156)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:06 pm

In post 2379, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 2376, RadiantCowbells wrote:Uhh yeahb ut we already have 2 town confirmed.

Who are the confirmed and why?


...-Grey- and SAJ

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Post Post #2403  (isolation #157)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:30 pm

In post 2390, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think Pepcho should have happened yesterday instead of Jhin because it was a way better wagon but hey.

I know, right?!

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Post Post #2405  (isolation #158)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:33 pm

I refer everyone to my post D1 about how Srceenplay is a better lynch than me in every way.

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Post Post #2410  (isolation #159)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:38 pm

In post 2407, RadiantCowbells wrote:I'll tell you what. If you flip town I will totally reread the Srceenplay slot because your play is the reason I'm writing him off as conftown. Agreed?


Your belief that I'm scum is a horrible reason to write off the possibility of Srceenplay-scum.

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Post Post #2414  (isolation #160)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:43 pm

But scum weren't primarily the ones who took the pressure off of me and Pepcho and decided look elsewhere ("counterwagon" as you say). A lot of it was -Grey- and Garmr.

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Post Post #2416  (isolation #161)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:45 pm

^example #537 of Pepcho and Srceenplay looking out for each other

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Post Post #2418  (isolation #162)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:49 pm

In post 2417, RadiantCowbells wrote:Man you both should do a lot more tactical lurking.

I would if I were scum LOL

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Post Post #2420  (isolation #163)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:54 pm

In post 2419, Srceenplay wrote:Ano. What do you think of my reasoning?


Your reasoning for knocking out Pepcho today? I agree with it, and I'm already voting him anyways.

Let's keep one topic going at a time. You can come back to me being scum later if you want. I will lurk and not defend myself if that helps you.


scummy

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Post Post #2423  (isolation #164)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:27 pm

Srceenplay, if Pepcho is your preferred lynch, why are you not voting?

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Post Post #2447  (isolation #165)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:17 pm

In post 2446, Frozen Angel wrote:The town block is Garmr , RC , Mandy , Fire

and me but they might have concerns about that ^

Gamma is practically the ascetic in counter of the above block so must be scum.


If that's the town block, scum is Pep, Srceenplay, Gamma

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Post Post #2448  (isolation #166)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:18 pm

You sons of guns had better be on Srceen's tail when I flip green.

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Post Post #2456  (isolation #167)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:40 pm

I got proven wrong speculating that there probably isn't a roleblocker, so I'm not going to continue to try and outguess Yoshi.

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Post Post #2470  (isolation #168)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:49 pm

Well, I guess that raises Alisae's scum stock.

Go town.

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Post Post #2473  (isolation #169)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:50 pm

You would like to see me shut up in Twilight wouldn't you screenplay

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Post Post #2479  (isolation #170)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:53 pm

Im flipping VT.

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Post Post #2482  (isolation #171)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:55 pm

I'm at work not paying close enough attention.

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Post Post #2502  (isolation #172)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:09 am

Maybe my reaction to the fakehammer shouldn't confirm me as town, but it should confirm me and Pepcho as different alignments.

Gee, I feel like a VI for this one.

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Post Post #2505  (isolation #173)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:10 am

*Srceenplay

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Post Post #2508  (isolation #174)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:18 am

In post 2503, Alisae wrote:Why are you telling us what it should confirm?


For town reference after I've flipped green for real.

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Post Post #2522  (isolation #175)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Pep is posting elsewhere on the site.

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Post Post #2526  (isolation #176)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:34 am

In post 2525, Gamma Emerald wrote:how is pep confscum

You've posted several times since that was established. Why are you just asking now?

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Post Post #2533  (isolation #177)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:55 am

No, I am at L-2 because Alisae believed my reaction to the fakehammer and unvoted thereafter.

Which still makes less sense than a Srceenplay lynch.

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Post Post #2572  (isolation #178)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:18 pm

And why shouldn't he?

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Post Post #2574  (isolation #179)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:22 pm

In post 2563, Firebringer wrote:i may just sheep garmr or rc for rest of game.
i don't feel in the mood for this game.

Sheeping Garmr is not the worst way to go about this.

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Post Post #2578  (isolation #180)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:37 pm

In post 2575, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 2573, Alisae wrote:Wait am I being retarded?
What about her reaction to the fake hammer seems scummy?


Its not that

The whole fakehammer felt so forced from you.

Her reaction to fakehammer is NAI at best and I have no idea what should I make of you :/


If Alisae is scum, he has no incentive to fakehammer me and try to make me look townier when I'm already well on the road to being mislynched.

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Post Post #2583  (isolation #181)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:48 pm

In post 2579, Frozen Angel wrote:he has the motivations though

arguing against a lynch on town and distancing from it is what scums like to do.

and if your his buddy by any chance his motiv is obvious

So what, the only townish thing for him to do would hace been to shut up about me/keep trying to lynch me? That doesn't sound right.

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Post Post #2588  (isolation #182)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm

In post 2587, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 2583, Anotora wrote:So what, the only townish thing for him to do would hace been to shut up about me/keep trying to lynch me? That doesn't sound right.


>.>

I never said a town wouldn't reaction test or try to fake hammer. I said that one felt fake.

Like I have no idea what are you arguing about?


I just don't see what Alisae could've done differently to make you think differently.

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Post Post #2590  (isolation #183)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:08 pm

^Mandy gets it.

I'll have a readlist today.

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Post Post #2609  (isolation #184)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:16 pm

In post 2607, Frozen Angel wrote:VOTE: Frozen

Not this again...

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Post Post #2626  (isolation #185)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:11 pm

In post 2620, Garmr wrote:why is gamma the exception btw screenplay. What makes Gamma different from frozen?

I'm glad someone asked this because it's confused me. Getting a read on Srceenplay's answer would be even better.

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Post Post #2627  (isolation #186)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:12 pm

RC what's your D3 gameplan after I flip green?

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Post Post #2647  (isolation #187)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:35 pm

In post 2646, RadiantCowbells wrote:Garmr, read the post that I linked and tell me they're not scumbuddies. C'mon.

I'm scumbuddies with Pepcho because I pushed for a Pepcho lynch well beyond the point in D1 where it was no longer popular?

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Post Post #2656  (isolation #188)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:46 pm

Alisae, why are you flip flopping on me? Starting to see me for the easy lynch that I am? Literally five hours ago you were calling me probtown, but now, with little having changed in the meantime, you're back on my case.

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Post Post #2699  (isolation #189)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:16 am

In post 2693, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 2689, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 2687, Srceenplay wrote:Again kill Pep and it gets rid of a power role night action


pep is not a power role very likely what are you talking about >.>


You can only perform one action at night. If you kill you can't rb. And so on


To clarify what Srceenplay is saying (and what he has already said in the past)

1. Even if Pep is a goon
2. The other two scum might be PRs
3. Then one of those two scum would have to skip using their action so they could make the factional kill

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Post Post #2708  (isolation #190)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 am

Since we have such a long thread, I thought analyzing the confscum's posts from a whole-thread statistical perspective might be useful. I made a hypothesis: Pepcho, as newbscum, is hesitant to directly engage with his scumbuddies in-thread and is therefore more likely to directly quote townies than scum. Then I counted up quotes and put it to the test.

Image

The data seem to fit the hypothesis. There seems to be a decent correlation. I can give raw data/methodology if anyone is interested.

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Post Post #2709  (isolation #191)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:18 am

VOTE: Frozen Angel

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Post Post #2712  (isolation #192)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:26 am

In post 2711, RadiantCowbells wrote:Yeah but we already established that he was bussing you but not your partners sooooooooooo

I still don't understand what you call the associatives between him and me, tbh

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Post Post #2713  (isolation #193)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:40 am

Matter of fact, RC, you read SAJ and Pepto as a scumteam, and look where that got us. So you should definitely be trusted now to smoke out Pepcho's team, right?

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Post Post #2789  (isolation #194)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:19 pm

In post 2752, Frozen Angel wrote:
In post 2750, Srceenplay wrote:Why leave him alive to hammer anyone he wants?


huh?

he can't just hammer a wagon from nowhere before it shapes.

The game is practically over. we have a decent townblock of 4, You don't know but I know there is a scum roleblocker and gamma ascietic is just scum in this setup

There is no need to kill the conf goon that won't add any info and let them kill and block investigatives for free >.>
Wanting to take Pepcho's vote away is a great reason to vote him, actually. If we mislynch today, D3 is 3 scum vs. 6 town. 5 votes to lynch. Which means it would only take 2 town votes on a wagon to mislynch and throw the game into 4:3 lylo.

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Post Post #2834  (isolation #195)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:50 pm

@Yoshi: if -Grey- had limited shots, would that have been included in his flip?

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Post Post #2847  (isolation #196)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:16 am

Mandy's softclaims were the first investigative role claims of the whole game, though...

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Post Post #2978  (isolation #197)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:30 pm

In post 2976, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 2430, Alisae wrote:Alright caught up.
I find it funny how Pep hasn't shown up yet.
But besides that, not liking Anotora. Seems like they're trying to plant paranoia in the town.
VOTE: Anotora


Can you explain this a little

The answer is no. He can't.

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Post Post #2980  (isolation #198)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:41 pm

In post 2979, Alisae wrote:Sure. They seemed to attempt to plant doubt the PR clears right away instead of thinking about them.

This just isn't true at all. I agreed with the rationale for voting Pepcho but that's the extent of it.

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Post Post #3004  (isolation #199)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:04 am

In post 2724, PantherPunt wrote:
In post 1850, Alisae wrote:Leaving this for reference
Ano wagon at it's peak
:!: Anotora (L-1) - Garmr, Srceenplay, RadiantCowbells, -Grey-, Frozen Angel, Alisae

Pep wagon at it's peak
:!: Pepchoninga (L-1) - Anotora, -Grey-, Alisae, RadiantCowbells, Garmr, SAJ

SAJ wagon at it's peak
:!: Secret Agent Jin (L-1) - Firebringer, Frozen Angel, RadiantCowbells, -Grey-, Alisae, Garmr


the fact that 4 people were on all three of these L-1 wagons is interesting to me. Typically, I find that scum would participate in this kind of behavior more often than not because they are looking for a lynch but not a singular lynch. however, we know grey was town so that's a counte rarguement (although to me, it makes the others' equity of being scum higher)

if there is 1-2 scum in Alisae, RC, and Garmr, that means there is a good good chance that each of those wagons were town (Antora, Pep, SAJ who did already flip town)

Garmr felt like that really nice sweet spot for scum d1 where he never got any heat or attention that I recall, nor did he stick his neck out and assert any original strong beliefs, reads, solvey questions etc.

though we apparently have mech stuff driving today


if there is 1-2 scum in Alisae, RC, and Garmr, that means there is a good good chance that each of those wagons were town (Antora, Pep, SAJ who did already flip town)

Ahahahahaha, are you giving up, scum?
VOTE: PantherPunt

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