In Memory

[ɀefiend]

KTS isn't what kept me from posting. Part of my role is being Delayed-Entry. Couldn't do anything until toDay (Day 2).

I was skim-following the game in real-time, and I read it once since then. I still need to reread it once or twice more, because way too many people ping me. The only solid reads I have right now are town!Postie and town!dreal. Leaving a VOTE: RachMarie in the meantime because she isn't obv-towning like she always does when she's Town.

FoS: Lycan

for the same reason, although I have less experience with him.

[ɀefiend]

Kuroui, DEO is doing all the work for me with providing links and such. Basically, RM has been fluffing up this game hardcore and needs rope.

Not as much fluff as drealmerz, who I think is town but should do us all a favor and take a V/LA and stop poisoning my eyes every time I read one of his posts.

[ɀefiend]

I want to hear about those reads ^ too.

Isoing drealmerz and I get a bad vibe about all the AtE. His whole spiel about whether Creature is causing perm Day and then quickly reverting back to a RM vote when he starts getting asked some pointed questions is
1) not a natural progression of... Anything: reads, arguments, questions, etc.
2) making me confused as to why the RM wagon is stalling. I get that there's other points of discussion, but some people have started sitting on their hands.

Where's Postie btw?

[ɀefiend]

And then Creeps20/Deimos27 > Lycanfire > KuroiXHF

Lycan should be vigged.

But out of curiosity, why do you read him as Town?

[ɀefiend]

Post explosion.. from parsing all of that I gathered that the Rach lynch can't be pushed through toDay but that my second choice is a good alternative. VOTE: Lycanfire and vig/rb/jk Rach instead.

[ɀefiend]

V/LA until January 2nd, holiday stuff.

Two weeks of V/LA, are you kidding me?

We may never find out what's really going on with the KTS bubble claim.

[ɀefiend]

I think we should've sticked to RachMarie, but whatever.

Then vote RachMarie. Dreal isn't happening today.

As I said earlier, if we get her to L-1 and people are refusing to hammer, they've scumclaimed.

Quite a "holier-than-thou" statement to make considering you have no vote (allegedly).

My vote on Lycanfire stands.

[ɀefiend]

Yeah, I'm not playing part to this vote hopping. All the moonlogic Titus-head and Postie are applying to the RM wagon also applies to the Lycan wagon with regard to hammers. JaeReed isn't making any sense either. With so many V/LAs and the game on pause for 5 days, this is screwed up. But to think that lynching a Loved scum is easier than a normal scum is just silly.

[ɀefiend]

Damn I actually forgot about this game it's gotten so boring.

Lycan is saying scum are afraid to hammer him, implying that all on his wagon are town (incl. drealmerz? Idk, we haven't had a VC in a while). However, he's also scum-reading drealmerz (I think). Not sure what to think of his overall demeanor but I still find his lynch to be substantially high-percentage.

Are people actually gonna reevaluate the RM slot because boring is tryharding? No.

[ɀefiend]

Postie I don't want an apathy lynch on someone I think might be town though. If we can turn this around we might be more likely to get a scum lynch. It's also worth thinking about whether RachMarie would replace out as scum in this situation. boring wanted to put something in the thread more than what RM had to make it worthwhile and idunno if their dropping off after that was more like, holidays and not knowing how to go hard to save the slot rather than a scum dropoff of "well I tried" y'know?

I actually tend to agree with KTS a lot and I think I should go for it if it's something we're both feeling because it's confirmation I'm on the right track and he's pre good at reading ppl as well.

{Postie, KC, DEO}
{Lycan, boring, Deimos}
{zefiend}
{Creature, drealmerz7, Vaxkiller}
{Creeps}
{Kuroi, Gamma}

Holy shit this post came out of nowhere. If I'm reading the tiers right, you have Lycanfire and boring as Town-leans?

Something is pinging me about your progression of these reads. Like, there's a lot of speculation involved:
- KC is being 100% truthful about KTS thing
- (presumably) buying Lycanfire's claim & story
- RM replacing out for strategic reasons
- boring's effort being AI

These are just the things that jump out at me so if you could clarify/explain, that'd be great. I'm going to ISO dive you in the meantime because honestly I've been skimming a lot of your posts (when the game was moving much faster).

[ɀefiend]

Postie I don't want an apathy lynch on someone I think might be town though. If we can turn this around we might be more likely to get a scum lynch. It's also worth thinking about whether RachMarie would replace out as scum in this situation. boring wanted to put something in the thread more than what RM had to make it worthwhile and idunno if their dropping off after that was more like, holidays and not knowing how to go hard to save the slot rather than a scum dropoff of "well I tried" y'know?

I actually tend to agree with KTS a lot and I think I should go for it if it's something we're both feeling because it's confirmation I'm on the right track and he's pre good at reading ppl as well.

{Postie, KC, DEO}
{Lycan, boring, Deimos}
{zefiend}
{Creature, drealmerz7, Vaxkiller}
{Creeps}
{Kuroi, Gamma}

Holy shit this post came out of nowhere. If I'm reading the tiers right, you have Lycanfire and boring as Town-leans?

Something is pinging me about your progression of these reads. Like, there's a lot of speculation involved:
- KC is being 100% truthful about KTS thing
- (presumably) buying Lycanfire's claim & story
- RM replacing out for strategic reasons
- boring's effort being AI

These are just the things that jump out at me so if you could clarify/explain, that'd be great. I'm going to ISO dive you in the meantime because honestly I've been skimming a lot of your posts (when the game was moving much faster).

I don't have set categories for the tiers. Higher up is the more townie I think someone is.

I think I'd talked about KC earlier, but boring summed that up nicely. KC's claim isn't something I would have imagined her to think up on her own, and she has convincingly given content that I believe has indeed come from KTS.

Lycanfire's claim...he hasn't really claimed as far as I'm concerned. Apart from the delayed death thing or w/e it was. My change on Lycanfire is that he's acting so damn disillusioned that it's actually making me think he's town by this stage. I have less confidence in that one because it's entirely tonal but I rarely see scum that can convincingly pull off the "let's antagonize the townies after my head further" line of attack that he's taking here. More often it comes from town that think they're being pushed by scum.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying about the RM replacing out for strategic reasons. I'm saying that I believe it's more likely she's replaced out as town than scum, given she clearly thought she was being run up for being V/LA rather than for her content. As scum in that situation I'd expect some bullshitting to put out something, which RM would have an easier time doing than as town where she has to actually read what's being put in the game and think about what that means with regards to someone's alignment. That or more lurking while waiting out her lynch. It's obviously not a strong indicator because it could just boil down to her not wanting to play anymore as either alignment but it's a supporting factor.

If boring's effort alone was AI then I'd still think she's scum, because she put in that small amount of effort and dropped off. I'm reading her as a newbie that had one good scum game, replaced into a bad slot, and is trying to make the lynch at least worth something without thinking she can turn it around. It's the trying to make the lynch worth something that gave me pause to think about because as scum in a slot that you don't think you can save you don't want to draw more associates. You just want to go quietly into the night, so to speak, unless you think that putting out some good content will save you, in which case I'd expect boring to have fought this harder rather than put out some content then go "welp not much more to do here" attitude-wise.

Re tiers/Lycanfire: your tonal read on Lycanfire is not something I can debate, however I will say that in the game I played with him as Town he was much more composed than here. The surprising thing about your reads is that he and boring are on the same tier.

Re KC: if she's scum then coaching is a thing. I'm asking you to look at it in the context of KC's voting patterns which don't perfectly align (IMO) with her thought processes.

Re RM: exactly!! why I am suggesting it could be strategic - you are considering that only a townie would be frustrated by being wagoned for fake V/LA-ing.

Re boring: it sounds like you still scumread her so what's the appeal of a flash wagon on Kuroui?

[ɀefiend]

Don't like the way Titus head has been trying to strong-arm this game.

VOTE: DEO

[ɀefiend]

FUCKING STOP!!!!!!!!!!!

DO NOT CAST A VOTE WITHOUT A CASE

PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO PLAY MAFIA

creature, tell us why

zefiend, that is a weakass shitcase, and it's not that I don't have potential agreements with you, but you need to make your case and not just say buzzwords - I strongarm as town, I strongarm as scum - what specific examples from The DEO strike you as scum-strongarming, and why?

The DEO, I've already asked for elaboration on the vote on me and await it

Reminder to blacklist you after this game.

Not everyone lives in drealmerz world where everybody constructs their posts in the most pedantic and self-righteous way possible before hitting submit.

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: zefiend

Avoiding RachMarie wagon, and accusing me of strongarming when someone said we needed a decision made. Yeah, don't think so.

Drealmerz hesitation and push on Lycan after I told him the choice is why I pressured him. Scum Drealmerz likely doesn't call out zefiend there.

1. Omgus
2. Blatant misrepresentation about the RM slot lynch
3. I'm not talking about the RM slot lynch
4. I'm talking about SS and Lycanfire (whether it was Math or you IDC, it's the same slot)

This is how I know you're scum -- trying to talk over everyone else. When I get to a computer I can put a proper case together.

[ɀefiend]

Deflecting what, exactly?

If you don't want to reread Titus's attack against SS and Math's attack against Lycanfire right now that's fine. I will break it down for you when I get to a computer. But don't misrep me.

[ɀefiend]

You need to adapt to playstyles other than your own.

I play with many different people with many different playstyles, the thing is, THEY KNOW HOW TO PLAY.

it's not about playstyle, and knowing basic concepts of mafia

anyway...zefiend is just trying to AtE some votes on me

What did you concoct this incredulous theory from?
Show me where I used AtE?
Show me where I am attempting to get votes on you?
Show me where I even attempt to push you AT ALL?

[ɀefiend]

A summary of the case vs DEO is as follows

: SS made a Day 1, Page 1 joke about policy-lynching "Titus" in response to a Titus-joke made by Kuroi. DEO interprets this as SS wanting to seriously policy-lynch the DEO slot. Despite repeated attempts by SS to explain that it was a joke, DEO runs with it for

over 20 pages

as a legitimate reason to lynch SS. DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS. DEO also dismisses Postie's townread of SS numerous times and attempts to counter every response Postie gives questioning the meta-reads. Despite Postie, Deimos, and Vedith all asserting that SS's comment was a joke/derpy and should be "let go," DEO does not. DEO also repeatedly defends drealmerz from SS's accusations: drealmerz was the second most vocal person about lynching SS. My contention here is that DEO ran with the PL thing too long and tried to force it home. I don't see a competent player like Titus doing that as Town. Furthermore, talking over Postie and attempting to disrupt SS's legitimate scumhunting efforts is scummy.

Now I will break it all down with evidence and examples. Keep in mind that I was absent all of Day 1, so I have a unique perspective on the matter.

Here is SS's "real" reason for voting DEO. I want to point out that the whole "fake reaction" thing

never

barely gets discussed because it is drowned out by DEO claiming that SS's actual reason is to PL.

More votes on DEO. Awful omgus on me to follow up with that fake reaction.

You could stand to elaborate yourself Moriarty. Looks like you pushed a policy lynch on me rather than hunting and are now trying to invent bullshit to hide that. So please educate the class yourself.

Wtf you on about? Your reaction to him claiming to be hated was fake as fuck. No way town reacts like that.

Yeah, I am asking you about the policy lynch comment. Stop changing the topic to something wrong that the thread clearly disagrees with you on because it's wrong.

Here I want to point out that (1) the "invented bullshit" came before the PL-joke and (2) it's actually DEO "changing the topic" to force the issue of the PL-joke,

You need to google ''sarcasm''

Nah, I wanted to PL Titus because she rolls scum a lot. Which was a joke. People here don't have a sense of humour.

Here is SS having to explain the joke. To an outside observer reading the thread, it was obvious that SS's comment was a joke in response to Kuroi's joke. At this point is where I assume a Townie would simply drop the matter, but...

Nah, I wanted to PL Titus because she rolls scum a lot. Which was a joke. People here don't have a sense of humour.

Yeah, the last guys who claimed joke were scum too. Why wait until you were wagoned to claim joke?

DEO invokes self-meta here, which is disingenuous to use versus SS, because SS is not "the last guys."

Examples of DEO trying to repeatedly insinuate that SS's reasoning was merely a PL, despite multiple clarifications that that comment was not serious:
[quote="In post 120...
Why did you wait to claim the policy lynch was a joke on me until you were wagoned?[/quote]

It was a joke on Titus not you.

i'm not suggesting a policy lynch. This is an RVS vote. This comment actually pings me.

IT'S SARCASM

...
You're scum because you tried to policy lynch me and claim sarcasm afterward but only did so after you were wagoned.
Then you just beg for someone else to lynch instead of yourself and aren't hunting.
...

Still don't understand the SS wagon. It's like everyone is voting him for this:

Titus has been scum in a lot of games I've played with her. Not a bad PL

Which seems like obvious RVS talk.

I've explained it already.
I have no idea how town reacts to a hated claim like- "can we make you unhated?"
It's like role fishing + awkward scum who doesn't know how to react.

Oh but selling a "policy lynch" on me after that point was a joke right?
Nah, you meant it. Then you got caught in a meta tell. Rather than asking me to prove it, you cried joke.

I can grow an extra person, so him being unhateable isn't ridiculous. It's also not a rolefish in the binary.

Here DEO is continuing to push that SS's "hated reaction" and PL reasons are analogous, despite the fact that SS wanted to (jokingly) PL "Titus." I also want to point out that DEO again cites self-meta, which cannot be disproven by SS -- rendering the "ask me to prove it" point a catch-22.

I'm not going into the details of DEO's meta case because the whole idea of using self-meta to prove that an unrelated player is scum is preposterous. But here is DEO repeatedly shutting down Postie's attempts to look past the whole joke:

Postie, you have an AtE weakness.

No, I don't. I can just tell the difference between scum frustration and town frustration. This is town frustration.

It isn't Postie. Check Suikoden Mafia. Blackest Magic reacted in the same way. Klingon was in that game btw.

For the record, I read what shadow wrote as an obvious joke. Let it go plsty.

Here's Davsto. You can read the ISO after that point too.
...

Still don't see it. I mean, I see the thing about the joke, but I don't think it's fair to say that complaining about being scumread for a joke is alignment indicative because one person has done it before as scum.

Still don't see it. I mean, I see the thing about the joke, but I don't think it's fair to say that complaining about being scumread for a joke is alignment indicative because one person has done it before as scum.

This particular "joke" when done by three separate people onto me has been scum 3 times and town zero. The behavior and tone matches here.

Self-fulfilling

prophecy

fallacy.

This particular "joke" when done by three separate people onto me has been scum 3 times and town zero. The behavior and tone matches here.

Eh? Quote/link me the other posts where it happened? And I disagree with behaviour and tone match; there's a subtle difference in that shadow's posts feel "protest-y" whereas Davsto went the more conventional passive-aggressive scum route.

Those people might have a reason to PL you. Mine was a joke. I've already explained why I didn't point out earlier because I cannot type sleep in my sleep ffs.
Just stahp

Postie, my point is ONLY scum RVS me with that "joke" and get hyper defensive about it. Only once has that comment been made by town on me, and he's a trollster. The three I quoted were trying to fit me for a noose at the time of their "jokes". At the time of Blackest Magic, he started chainsawing for LQ who was his buddy. Mastina was pushing me to throw me off. Davsto was just obvious scum freaking out, like here.

I didn't even know you were Titus or Deo was Titus so your point is invalid.
Your logic is also fallacious. I'm not Mastin or whoever else the fuck they were.

Again, their tone and behaviour is different on multiple levels.

Lynch Shadow. He scum claimed hard when he tried to policy lynch me.

Can you even point to anything that suggests he was being serious? Because if not then why would we do this.

He only claimed joke after being wagoned. It is clear he wanted me to be lynched and was hoping to let his vote sit.

And thanks for the scum slip of we. You and SS would do this because the longer I am in the game the more likely I wreck your scumteam with VCA. I have to go do lawyer things now.

It was actually not so "clear," especially since multiple other players disputed DEO's opinion that SS was serious, and that SS had moved on to voting Gamma and later drealmerz.

I also want to inject an interesting comment made by DEO (slightly unrelated):

Piled on is the wrong choice of words. They are using us being fractured to pile on/assist any town wagon and not bus.

DEO implies that the "piling on" players to Postie's (alleged) scumslip wagon are avoiding bussing SS. But DEO doesn't explicitly call out anyone [Creature, creeps, RM, maybe one more person (can't remember)] for doing this. Instead DEO continued to push the "SS lied about knowing Titus=DEO" case.

This is only the

Day 1

case I have against DEO. For all intents and purposes, the SS lynch

was

"strong-armed."

[ɀefiend]

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

[ɀefiend]

The way Titus kept ignoring legitimate concerns that were brought up about PLgate rubbed me the wrong way, but I'm not discounting the possibility that Titus was just confbiasing so hard that she didn't feel the need to consider those things.

I don't see a competent player like Titus doing that as Town.

How many games have you had with Titus? I've seen her pull some major moonlogic as both alignments.

I've had at least 3 games with/containing Titus. The most notable one I can think of is College Mafia, she was in a hydra with Dwlee and I don't recall her ever being so persistent with a single minor point like in this game.

In another game I played with her hosted by Zakk she actually got called out by RadiantCowbells and lynched because he didn't think she was playing as her Town self. If you really want I can dig up the links to those games.

[ɀefiend]

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Let's note this is Titus and MathBlade we're talking about here. I KNOW Math is a tunneler as town, and Titus likely believed the PL thing was valid. I've seen people use tells like "people who suggest PLs are scum" as town as major case builders.
btw both point I make here are based in the same game.

I'm not saying that building a case around someone wanting to PL you is invalid.

I'm saying that SS didn't actually want that, and DEO(Titus) ran with it too long and too forcefully, against the concerns of others.

[ɀefiend]

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Please provide a couple examples of Titus doing this as scum in previous games.

I'm not building a scum-meta case on Titus, I'm trying to show how things appear in the context of THIS game. Also see above posts; I have experience with Titus as both alignments.

[ɀefiend]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68707
Infinity is my reference for tells like the one Titus used, he said 40% of the time scum would vote GL based on his username
Math tunneled me in this game for ALL of day 1

It's very ambiguous where Math comes into the picture. I don't know if DEO is a hydra, if Titus "grew" MathBlade into the slot through some weird mechanic, or wtf is going on. But (again, I was not present for all of Day 1, so my read perspective is different), I believe it was mostly Titus who was pushing SS Day 1. You don't really see Math signing as themselves until Day 2.

[ɀefiend]

If you aren't building a scum meta case on Titus what are you doing then? Building a town meta case? Spamming?

~~Math

And I have no fucking clue how Lycan knew my meta as Town and no I don't want to talk about it because I am still pissed. If the first post didn't say not bastard I would have assumed actor.

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Please provide a couple examples of Titus doing this as scum in previous games.

I'm not building a scum-meta case on Titus, I'm trying to show how things appear in the context of THIS game.

Also see above posts; I have experience with Titus as both alignments.

iirc all the in-character posts that DEO posted were math

Maybe they were maybe they weren't. They were definitely fun to read.

~~Math

You have literally nothing to do with my case at the moment. If you are patient I will get to you and Lycan. Of course you don't want to hear about it, the whole thing was a ruse. Well too bad -- I am not going to let you sweep it under the rug so you and/or Titus can continue dictating the game in a terrible direction.

[ɀefiend]

Reposting this because apparently Gamma is choosing to ignore it:

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Let's note this is Titus and MathBlade we're talking about here. I KNOW Math is a tunneler as town, and Titus likely believed the PL thing was valid. I've seen people use tells like "people who suggest PLs are scum" as town as major case builders.
btw both point I make here are based in the same game.

I'm not saying that building a case around someone wanting to PL you is invalid.

I'm saying that SS didn't actually want that, and DEO(Titus) ran with it too long and too forcefully, against the concerns of others.

Real concern doesn't last 20 pages. That is called the manifestation of pigeon-holing: using gross misrepresentation in combination with relentless tunneling.

And the pigeon-holing concept is what mhsmith and others who are trying to turn this into a meta debate don't understand: I don't care if someone "usually tunnels as Town" or "is more reserved as scum"-- Titus has played enough games that there's always going to be counterexamples. What I care about is the nature of actions perpetrated in THIS game.

The soft defense of Titus by Gamma is interesting when you consider that SS was also scum-reading him (and voting at one point). I would like to know Titus's opinion on this.

I'm also wondering why JaeReed abandoned our dialogue. What happened to all the wallpost?

[ɀefiend]

You mean the reaction of trying at least five time to clarify that his comment was a joke? Towards the end, Titus was pushing SS for lack of reads, but the majority of the time it was in reference to the PL; let's take note of the length of game-time:

Titus has been scum in a lot of games I've played with her. Not a bad PL

VOTE: Shadowstep

Serious vote now.

You could stand to elaborate yourself Moriarty. Looks like

you pushed a policy lynch on me

rather than hunting and are now trying to invent bullshit to hide that. So please educate the class yourself.

Yeah, I am asking you about

the policy lynch comment

. Stop changing the topic to something wrong that the thread clearly disagrees with you on because it's wrong.

Titus has been scum in a lot of games I've played with her. Not a bad PL

This post is where

SS claimed he wanted to pl me

. Not bc I was hated.

Nah, I wanted to PL Titus because she rolls scum a lot. Which was a joke. People here don't have a sense of humour.

Yeah,

the last guys who claimed joke were scum too

. Why wait until you were wagoned to claim joke?

Not being scared of being wagoned is not an answer of why you did something.

Why did you wait to claim

the policy lynch

was a joke on me until you were wagoned?

Because double voters are almost always Town.
You're scum because

you tried to policy lynch me

and claim sarcasm afterward but only did so after you were wagoned.
Then you just beg for someone else to lynch instead of yourself and aren't hunting.
It is like you aren't even trying.
The real question isn't why you are scum. It is how could you ever be town?

Oh and Grandma Shadow is right on one thing. Reasons are good.

I've explained it already.
I have no idea how town reacts to a hated claim like- "can we make you unhated?"
It's like role fishing + awkward scum who doesn't know how to react.

Oh but

selling a "policy lynch" on me

after that point was a joke right?
Nah, you meant it. Then you got caught in a meta tell. Rather than asking me to prove it, you cried joke.

I can grow an extra person, so him being unhateable isn't ridiculous. It's also not a rolefish in the binary.

[...]

Lmao, Seriously?
This is so reachy, its pathetic. Its worse than scraping the barrel.
We are not the same people.

Mastina and Davesaz also tried policy lynching me

because I roll scum a lot. They both claimed joke too.

Here's Davsto. You can read the ISO after that point too.

Spoiler: Davsto

Subject: NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

VOTE: Titus

When

isn't

she scum?

Subject: NY 191: Denmark Mafia - Endgame

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

-townpoints for only responding to this part, btw.

Minus townpoints for only responding to the part that explained why you thought I was scum - the answer to the question I asked btw - rather than the bit explaining why RadiantCowbells is town. Riiiiight.

It's not reasonless. You're buddying and not scumhunting.

Proof plz or are you just gonna say things and hope they'll be true eventually?

Quoted reasons.

I meant, you know, show where I'm "buddying" and "not scumhunting". Jeez.

Because RadiantCowbells is probably town.

And... town never vote town?

Let's see if that's the case here!

What do you think of my proposed town perspective for his vote on Titus in comparison with your reasoning? Which is more likely?

Cowbells isn't scared of a Titus tunnel on him. He has faced a full-on Titus tunnel before and come out unscathed (and his replacement proceeded to win the game for our scumteam btw).

He only came out unscathed by causing massive amounts of drama, painting my read as just sour grapes and making sure everyone ignored me after I wasn't playing.

Still came out unscathed after a full-on Titus tunnel, point still stands. RadiantCowbells trust in his ability enough to not be scared.

You open by stating a statement you know isn't true (implied Titus is always scum) then buddying while ignoring me.

Man, scumreading me for making jokes. Wish that was the first time I'd seen this.
Again, show the buddying. Also, considering I've replied to at least one of your posts (even if it wasn't regarding your wagon on me) isn't ignoring you. Also, it seems awfully demanding for you to expect me to constantly talk to you even if you're not directly addressing me when there are a good 18 players.

And boasting about being undefeated scum also feels like something town would do, because. They don't care about looking bad for bragging about how great they are at being scum (as that could prompt other people to doubt their townread on them in this game).

RadiantCowbells always brags about their play. It's hardly alignment indicative.

Still don't see it. I mean, I see the thing about the joke, but I don't think it's fair to say that complaining about being scumread for a joke is alignment indicative because one person has done it before as scum.

This particular

"joke" when done by three separate people onto me has been scum 3 times

and town zero. The behavior and tone matches here.

Postie, my point is

ONLY scum RVS me with that "joke"

and get hyper defensive about it. Only once has that comment been made by town on me, and he's a trollster. The three I quoted were trying to fit me for a noose at the time of their "jokes". At the time of Blackest Magic, he started chainsawing for LQ who was his buddy. Mastina was pushing me to throw me off. Davsto was just obvious scum freaking out, like here.

[...]

Yeah, you knew I was DEO when

trying to policy me SS

.

Lying isn't your stronsuit.

Lynch Shadow. He scum claimed hard when

he tried to policy lynch me

.

He only claimed joke after being wagoned. It is clear he

wanted me to be lynched

and was hoping to let his vote sit.

And thanks for the scum slip of we. You and SS would do this because the longer I am in the game the more likely I wreck your scumteam with VCA. I have to go do lawyer things now.

Will you grow a bloody brain already ?
How the hell do you think those interactions make sense if I knew Deo=Titus.
Plus if I knew that why would I comment about PLing "Titus" and not "Deo* ?

Those interactions only make sense if you knew I was DEO.
I was the DEO account and announced I was. Titus and DEO were interchangeable names.
You said my read appeared to be fake, and immediately

pushed policy lynching me

.

If you actually claimed to have a scumread on DEO, you would have read my posts. Either you lied about your scumread or reading posts.

Remind me to never join a game with Titus in it. Useless tunnel fucking moron.

That would be Supergirl's alias Titus's sibling MathBlade. Man does that sibling know how to tunnel badly.

Here there is evidence that you are scum. Not just sometimes "gut" MathBlade starts with. That sibling needs a firm talking to in their communication skills. You could either call MathBlade a useless tunnel fucking moron or a useful tunnel fucking genius but that is definitely not Supergirl.

Without hope of actually convincing the others you are town after

trying to policy lynch

the alien sent here to help you, you have switched to insults. Boooo. Bad scum.

he clearly doesn't know to play mafia and only knows how to stir shit and talk shit

ignore him

Hi scum.

@Titus - Dreal is scum. Look at his activity to other games until I called it out. Look at how he's pushing, he's scum looking for issues rather than town looking for scum.
So move off Shadow who is town and vote Dreal, thanks!

No. Drealmerz is town.

SS is scum that is caught lying

in the thread. Drealmerz activity across games in consistent. Dude, you are agency captured.

So between game-time 27 and 601, the crux of Titus' case revolves around the PL comment.

[ɀefiend]

Hmm, looking over DEO's iso and I found this little nugget:

You played that game GIF hosted. How can you seriously think that .

The 15p?

I legit don't care about meta

.

Interactions in THIS GAME suggest

at least one of you or Vedith is scum and dreal is town.

But apparently you

do

care about meta enough to defend Titus...

So just the use os PL as a reason?
I felt it was a strong case, and SS's rage kinda felt like scum caught for the wrong reason.

What?

DEO's reason was that SS's reason was a PL. It was not. It was clarified as a joke, interpreted as a joke by multiple people; the self-meta was questioned -- and still DEO carried on for over 20 pages.

A TvT situation would have been like:
"PL lynch Titus! She's always scum!"
"Are you seriously suggesting that?"
"No, it was a joke!"
<game continues>

Instead DEO took control of the game.

Let's note this is Titus and MathBlade we're talking about here. I KNOW Math is a tunneler as town, and Titus likely believed the PL thing was valid. I've seen people use tells like "people who suggest PLs are scum" as town as major case builders.
btw both point I make here are based in the same game.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=68707
Infinity is my reference for tells like the one Titus used, he said 40% of the time scum would vote GL based on his username
Math tunneled me in this game for ALL of day 1

[...]

Please provide a couple examples of Titus doing this as scum in previous games.

I'm not building a scum-meta case on Titus,

I'm trying to show how things appear in the context of THIS game

. Also see above posts; I have experience with Titus as both alignments.

Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?

[ɀefiend]

Do you see how that's a bit hypocritical?

It's a bit hypocritical I guess, but why is it scum-indicative of Gamma to turn his face away from shadow's offered meta defense while on a different time and place using his own meta understanding to defend DEO?

Like, Gamma didn't seem to be saying that he somehow didn't care about meta in general, rather it seemed like he was explicitly rejecting shadow's meta defense, with stated reasoning of there being evidence of interactions that seemed damning (though why he picked shadow over vedith if it was "one of you two is scum" is possibly an interesting question I might want to dig into).

So other than it being vaguely bad-looking to reject a type of reasoning in one case and accept it in a different case, why does it actually suggest he's being strategic or materially hypocritical?

I don't listen to my scumreads is why.

OK nvm, fair point. I am just trying to make sense of the Gamma-DEO connection. Maybe I am just imagining it but I feel like there's something off.

In regards to Titus, we will have have to agree to disagree about the whole meta thing. Just a final word, though -- can't scum appear sincere as well?

[ɀefiend]

I'm also wondering why JaeReed abandoned our dialogue. What happened to all the wallpost?

If I abandoned it then it means one of the following:
I forgot (please quote it if you want more discussion since I'm too lazy to go back right now)
I was done talking (not sure if that's the case since I don't even remember having a discussion with you)

I've been preoccupied trying to reread and look at vote counts and struggling to figure out where I went wrong with my reads since Lycan should not have been the nightkill, which indicates something about my thoughts on the gamestate isn't adding up...which means my reads are horribly wrong, most likely.

I think Kuroi is town now, too.

I will have to get back to you on this. It was mostly about your reads at the time -- probably outdated conversation now that you are reevaluating.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

Can you avoid asking dishonest questions? I was voting RM when I felt she was the optimal lynch.

I did not vote boring because I felt lycanfire was a better choice. The defense against Math, the claim, the reads -- nothing compelled me to move my vote. I should have known better since apparently Math's case was bullshit. But that is a whole other topic I still need to reevaluate in my scumread on your slot.

[ɀefiend]

Zefiend, why did you avoid voting RachMarie?

Can you avoid asking dishonest questions? I was voting RM when I felt she was the optimal lynch.

I did not vote boring because I felt lycanfire was a better choice. The defense against Math, the claim, the reads -- nothing compelled me to move my vote. I should have known better since apparently Math's case was bullshit. But that is a whole other topic I still need to reevaluate in my scumread on your slot.

Math's scumread was moonlogic, not bullshit. Nice deflection.

You were voting RachMarie when no one would lynch her but when the wagon took off, you did not. Suggests distancing.

Your OMGUS and hypersensitivity to being FoSed also suggest scum.

What alignment do you think RachMarie was? Who do you think was scum on her wagon?

The two are synonymous to me.

"No one would lynch her" -- can you STOP being dishonest please?? RM got to L-1 in a short span while I was voting her. "The wagon taking off" again took over a week.

Show me where I omgusd anyone? I refuse to engage you any further if you are just going to sling shit.

I am honestly not sure what RM's alignment was at this point. The second question is partially dependent on the first, and partially dependent on me sorting YOU, which is a more pressing concern to me at the moment.

So how about you do something productive and address my concerns and analyze other people's input to my discussion?

[ɀefiend]

Ugh I'm honestly fucking sick and tired of meta this and meta that, is that all anybody on this site goes by these days? It's just turning me off of this game.

[ɀefiend]

Ugh I'm honestly fucking sick and tired of meta this and meta that, is that all anybody on this site goes by these days? It's just turning me off of this game.

Slight town read here.

Ugh I'm honestly fucking sick and tired of meta this and meta that, is that all anybody on this site goes by these days? It's just turning me off of this game.

I also don't know why but the way you came in and made this comment is making me scumread you a lot.

Ugh I'm honestly fucking sick and tired of meta this and meta that, is that all anybody on this site goes by these days? It's just turning me off of this game.

Slight town read here.

How? @_@

Lol.

Here's my POV. I have a 2013 join date but I'm not part of any cliques, an established player, or have any "meta" so-to-speak on this site. Meanwhile players who joined in 2016 have heavy meta on each other (not just talking about this game, exclusively). It's frustrating because while I can appreciate the appeal and uses of metagaming, I find it trivial to try to apply it arbitrarily. The last few pages have been dancing around the idea of meta and it just doesn't float my boat as a player. It's making me detach.

[ɀefiend]

Yeah but zefiend's rant the kind of thing I can see scum walking in and saying because the content of those posts actually does nothing to move the game forward and is just pointless drivel, but there's ranty emotions behind it, and it therefore comes across to me as just being designed to show off the emotional aspect of the post to give the illusion that zefiend is invested in the game.

I don't appreciate this post, at all.

I invested a LOT of time into casing DEO and it stirred up a great deal of discussion. Unfortunately, most of that discussion devolved into metagaming, which in case you didn't already know, I am not a fan of.

I still find the D1 push to be scum-motivated. The lack of much Titus in this thread recently doesn't help, either. Since that topic went by the wayside, I don't find there to be much redeeming conversation at the moment. I DO appreciate you trying though, to engage Kuroi.

The way drealmerz(I think) described the game as "floating in space" or whatever is how I feel too. I really,

really

hate leaving a Ranger-esque reads list, but if anyone wants to talk about them or do the same, it might help.

Postie, drealmersz7, Creature -- town
JaeReed -- townlean
Klingoncelt, Vaxkiller, Mhsmith0 -- neutral
Creeps20, KuroiXHF -- no clue
Gamma Emerald -- scumlean
The DEO -- scum

[ɀefiend]

ok

I killed lycan with my vig shot

I have never had a vig shot before and wasn't sure about outing it, especially since I was wrong with it

[ɀefiend]

mhsmith0 has been largely unimpressive in a really bad way. I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative or just indicative that he's not invested in the game.

The latter but I don't really expect everyone to realize it. I'll be more involved when I get some more time I guess.

This is literally the textbook definition of posturing.

VOTE: mhsmith

[ɀefiend]

I'll try and spend some time productively digging into zef/gamma/vax and figure out where my vote should go. Sorry for being relatively useless the past few days.

What the fuck, meant to quote this post.

[ɀefiend]

Okay, who's scum?

Gamma, zefiend, and/or Vax probably. Pick one.

More like {Gamma, DEO, mhsmith}

[ɀefiend]

FA can you try to post more consolidated thoughts at some point? I'm not keen on your chatroom posting.

Lynchpool is still {DEO, Gamma, mhsmith} because literally nothing has happened since FA replaced in besides FA catching up.

[ɀefiend]

@FA, here's my top 3 scumreads in TL;DR form:

DEO -- Big case on Titus explains why, and now she is largely absent. I assume you read it or skimmed it since you mentioned it earlier. Her other half Math seems to be moving from one contrivance to another. I don't buy their story Re: Lycan-"Pants" just based on the defense that "Math wouldn't do that." Now Math has spun theories in an entirely new direction and figuring out what happened to Lycan reads like scum theatre to me (that goes for you too, I think you're overdoing it. But I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.)

Gamma -- Riding on the coattails nearly the entire game. Lack of formulation of independent stances. Seems to be skating by on a double-voter claim. Also partly gut.

mhsmith -- The way he picked apart my case, only going for points that are literally nonarguable, and suggesting that meta is a good enough reason to hard-town-read DEO, does not sit right with me. I thought he was asking questions because he didn't understand my case but they were actually framed to just hard-defend Titus' actions.

Also this post details why I think mhsmith is a good bet for scum. There is no logical progression seen in his posts that would follow up with that three person lynchpool.

I don't wanna sound like it's so easy to grasp but the three of them as the remaining scumteam actually make a lot of sense to me.

[ɀefiend]

Titus has RL. Never accuse RL of being fake. Sometimes one head in a hydra posts more than another.

I guess by RL you mean real life, but I'm not even sure how that's an excuse for the amount of hydra-dissonance that I observe. I have never played with you and I am not willing to give you or your hydra a free pass just because other people in this game vouch for you. This is MAFIA and I have seen people people pull off the most unbelievable lies and stories so I will always be paranoid.

I also don't like how you ignore Postie's post of in essence what you are accusing me of if you scumread me.

Could you try to rephrase/explain this? I honestly don't even know what you're trying to say here. Which Postie post?

I am a person who pokes at mechanics. It is what I do. To say I am scummy for playing mafia...Like no.

That's quite a jump to generalize [asking the mod a million questions] as [playing mafia]. Again, I have seen people engage moderators with questions in an attempt to look townie or to seem like they're helping to solve the game, when all they're really doing is putting on a show. To me, the theory you concocted about drealmerz seems extremely farfetched.

Again this is attacking a person on VLA/not here and that is the reason. Boooo. I attacked RM but it was because of the quality of posts being different than other V/LAs. In other words that lacks substance.

I'm not even sure who you are referring to here since you don't use any names. If you were spacing out your paragraphs how I was, then I assume you're talking about Gamma, who is officially on V/LA. Literally none of my reasons on Gamma have to do with the fact that he's V/LA.

Mhsmith is the only one that makes sense to me at all in that list and only if he is with Drealmerz and especially if Lycanfire submitted his redirect to himself which makes a lot of sense. Especially if Drealmerz is the NK and was going to somehow passive roleblock someone. If he knew someone was going to kill him and he didn't believe the vig claim and knew he would be mislynched it makes sense for a Lycanfire to redirect a scum powers onto him. Because if positive he would get benefits meant for scum. If negative then he would take the negative things before being lynched.

~~Math

I do not see how any of the logic you give would lead to mhsmith making sense to you. There is a missing chainlink, and I think it is explaining how/why exactly mhsmith would be scum with drealmerz. I also find it interesting that you didn't talk about my reasons for mhsmith, but seemed to latch onto the idea that I'm somehow attacking players who are absent (which is patently false) and defend them against your own interpretation of my reasons.

[ɀefiend]

Postie if you have a case for why I'm scum please share so I can address it. Otherwise quit insinuating that I am a lynch choice today based on no reasons.

[ɀefiend]

Also may I (again) remind everyone (but mostly zefiend) that if you scumread The DEO because you believe they faked their push on Lycan then you're buying that:

a) Math would

damn near stalker level creepy

This is horrible and creeps me the hell out.

I am creeped out right now and very disappointed in these vote moves.

Its posts have me feeling so damn creeped out right now. [...] I will not be told that it's okay to ignore someone blatantly using my meta or as town randomly stalking a player not in the game.

continually accuse someone of doing something they deemed horribly creepy and pretend it was making them extremely uncomfortable in order to campaign for that person's lynch, while knowing that person had done nothing wrong.

b) Continue to AtE about it after they were dead posts like

I don't see any other option and that is what freaks me out about this game. I am a bullheaded hated player. No one listens or follows what I do. It is why I can't get invested because every time I try I get creeped out when I reread.

~~Math

to try and emotionally manipulate people into townreading them.

If a person, as scum, were to honestly build their entire case on another player around them having done something "stalker-level creepy" and persistently AtE about it, I would find that ludicrously obnoxious and would never want to play with that person again.

You keep saying I'm ignoring this, but I've already stated my position on meta, MathBlade, the ethics of tactics, etc.

I know I haven't been giving this game much attention, but RadiantCowbell's most recent post is definitely related. There are too many players in this <redacted> that overlap in other <redacted> and it's making things very <redacted> for me.

I'm going to shut up now so I don't get modkilled or force-replaced but if anyone tries to push meta at me again I'm gonna have to quit this game. KEEP IT TO THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME WHEN TALKING TO ME, PLEASE.

I'm going to try and jump back in by reading FA's iso later.

[ɀefiend]

the ethics of tactics

Actually I don't remember you telling anyone about this at all. If you have, please point me to it, otherwise I want to know

exactly

what you think of MathBlade supposedly doing this.

I mentioned that I have witnessed people do some pretty unbelievable stuff to win mafia games.

Anything within the confines of the rules -- I don't put it past anyone on this site. Like kuroi said, I don't see anything besides your convictions that show MathBlade couldn't fake their push against lycan.

[ɀefiend]

I mentioned that I have witnessed people do some pretty unbelievable stuff to win mafia games.

If my family died and I told you about it you could accuse me of having murdered them because "I've heard of people murdering their families before".
Why wouldn't you? Because you have no reason to believe I'm a shitty enough person to do that.

So I'll put this another way - what evidence do you have that what you're alleging is in line with Math's character as a person?

Because I can present you with plenty of evidence of them being an exceptionally kind human being and this therefore not making any sense in the context of what I know of them.

I already asked nicely here

I'm going to shut up now so I don't get modkilled or force-replaced but if anyone tries to push meta at me again I'm gonna have to quit this game. KEEP IT TO THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME WHEN TALKING TO ME, PLEASE.

So now I will politely ask you TO FUCK OFF.

[ɀefiend]

I'm gonna respond to JaeReed's posts about my case and then step away from this game.

[ɀefiend]

A summary of the case vs DEO is as follows

: SS made a Day 1, Page 1 joke about policy-lynching "Titus" in response to a Titus-joke made by Kuroi. DEO interprets this as SS wanting to seriously policy-lynch the DEO slot. Despite repeated attempts by SS to explain that it was a joke, DEO runs with it for

over 20 pages

as a legitimate reason to lynch SS. DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS. DEO also dismisses Postie's townread of SS numerous times and attempts to counter every response Postie gives questioning the meta-reads.

During all this did you ever once get the feeling that DEO did not 100% believe that said personal meta was a real tell? Because I didn't.
There was conviction there. The push was absolutely awful but the conviction was not, and DEO's push feels like it had a full belief in being right backing it. DEO was treating their tell as a cop guilty, almost, yes, but that's not scummy.
Why do you believe DEO should have felt the need to listen to anyone else's townread of a slot over their own tell they believed they had picked up through their experience playing games up to that point?

"DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS." <--- that is my fundamental issue. The conviction is not part of my case at all, because it is a subjective quality. I already touched on this earlier when I stated that being outside of the game on D1 placed me in a different perspective. That perspective is highly objective and literal because I wasn't *in* the game for its ebbs and flows.

Despite Postie, Deimos, and Vedith all asserting that SS's comment was a joke/derpy and should be "let go," DEO does not.

You mean like you're doing right now with everyone who actually knows both heads of The DEO?

The comparisons aren't analogous. Those people were commenting on something SS

did

do, everyone here is speculating on what MB

wouldn't

do.

DEO also repeatedly defends drealmerz from SS's accusations: drealmerz was the second most vocal person about lynching SS.

Point? When you're pushing on someone you think is scum and other people are also hard pushing with you and seem to have solid points from your point of view, do you not tend towards townreading them and defending them from your scumreads?

SS's push on drealmerz was independent of DEO's push on SS. The point is tied in with my "DEO was stifling SS' other nodes of discussion" point.

My contention here is that DEO ran with the PL thing too long and tried to force it home. I don't see a competent player like Titus doing that as Town.

This is burden of proficiency, and tunnelling isn't inherently scummy as well, it's how the tunnel is happening and how genuine the push is.

"How it's happening" -- I think I made it clear that I viewed it as lasting too long and too forcefully. If you disagree that's your point of view but I found it scummy.

Furthermore, talking over Postie and attempting to disrupt SS's legitimate scumhunting efforts is scummy.

Not really. I didn't get the feeling they were trying to disrupt SS's scumhunting efforts. Talking over people isn't scummy, it's just loud.

Just a couple examples that give me a different feeling:

GE ignoring my posts. Classic
Stop playing so many games so you can actually play well somewhere JC

Your posts are spammy garbage.

Go check Dreal's game and look at his scum game. I'm not tunneling him. I'm open to opinion. There is literally nobody scummier.

If you're "open to pinion" why are you not interested in engaging RM in thread or using their posts to sort them? They refuse to do the same with you.

[ɀefiend]

Funny that, the relentless tunnels of the DEO slot are excused and handwaved due to site clout and feelz, whereas my push, (falsely characterized as a tunnel), is dismissed for the very same reasons.

I've already stated my compromise lynches.

[ɀefiend]

Don't like the Vax lynch at all. Going VOTE: Gamma Emerald instead.

[ɀefiend]

Bait-and-switch?

ROFLMAO are you really making shit up to try and justify your hammer on a Cop?

I made ONE comment on Vax this whole time and somehow that's indicating that I was somehow misleading, and enough for you to do a 180 on your read of me?

Drealmerz please shoot DEO if you have any common sense. It's utterly shameful how they've managed to survive this long because gullible townies are like baby birds under their wing.

[ɀefiend]

Hey, Kuroi, you're voting that "bad vote".

Postie, you have an AtE weakness.

This is the shit I'm talking about.

I mean scum literally says to your face that you're weak to AtE and then you use AtE to hard defend them. JaeReed too.

I want an apology from everyone who hard-defended DEO for bullshit "muh feelz" reasons after they flip scum.

[ɀefiend]

v/la til Jan 23

[ɀefiend]

Prodge. Have a nasty case of the flu. I'll get to this if I feel better tonight.

[ɀefiend]

Literally no one has given a reason for why I'm scum, yet I have 4 votes. Let's see...

Creature has skated all game -- could be scum but seems like apathetic Town.
JaeReed has a placeholder vote on me (I would hope) -- IMO he is Town
DEO -- scum voting me, no surprise there
FA -- iso is full of lamist and iioa; bandwagon votes -- could def. be scum

Mhsmith's super turnaround on me EoD3 is weird. Could be genuine or posturing. Will have to mull on this slot some more.

KoC and drealmerz are both obv-Town.

Alisae or Postie could be scum with DEO, actually.

I'm a Delayed Entry Conditional Exit 1SBP.
I haven't been told if I was shot, and I'm not even sure if that's a thing, but yeah.
Not going into details about the conditions of my exiting the game, but I'm over half-way there.

The entry/exit things are false modifiers IMO as I was technically part of the game on D1, and I will technically still be a part of the game if I "exit," just in a

mod

erately different way.

VOTE: DEO

[ɀefiend]

Math is seeming genuine in trying to solve the game, Titus not so much. FA absolutely is not conf-town and is not even widely town-read afaik. Alisae still scummy per usual. smith is a toss-up for me. I guess nobody cares about Creature, not even Creature, so I can ignore that slot too. Oh and Postie is still helplessly tunneled.

Only definitively town players are KoC and drealmerz. JaeReed is townlean.

I honestly wouldn't put it past RC to invent some crazy mechanic where two players in the same hydra (or whatever DEO is) are opposite alignments.

Everybody VOTE: Titus please. There's no harm in checking.

If I missed anything important in my skim-catch-up just go ahead and point it out.

[ɀefiend]

Yeah but have you played with RC or in one of his games?

Dude has some crazy creativity going on in his brain, and I wouldn't put it past him to try something like this.

Also, my whole not-being-part-of-the-game for Day 1 is borderline bastard, but I also have some priveleged information as it relates to my role, etc. Still, I'm just saying that it's a possibility.

Scumread would be FA for a lot of lamist and iioa type posts that I touched on earlier, and "not-a-town-read" would be Alisae because I never really liked the Gamma slot and she hasn't done anything to improve that feeling.

[ɀefiend]

Why the fuck would I exit the game as scum? BP presumably helps me survive until my time to exit, and I also have one other ability for surviving which I WON'T be outing -- can absolutely not trust FA now that she's hinted at other killing roles.

When I exit I return to my entry state of not being able to talk in the game thread, but I do get to join a neighborhood "associated with my past."

I'm not surprised by FA's sudden push on me after feeling pressure. She's backed herself into a place where she's trying to piece together a picture consistent with all the bullshit she's suggested this game. Her ultimate reason is that "BP {= scum". Her engagement with drealmerz was detracting from actual game content and deconstructive. This is terrible and needs to die.

VOTE: FrozenAngel

[ɀefiend]

zefind where the fuck are you >.>

Sitting comfortable with my vote on scum. Will move back to DEO if the sheeple wake up though.

[ɀefiend]

Apathy is pro-scum. Let's get the zefiend lynch over with. I don't see a reason to drag this out.

That would make Creature conf-scum. Come back with an actual case for me to address.

The only thing FA has asserted is that BP=scum despite ignoring the nuances of my role. Numerous others have pointed out the holes in FA's progression this entire game.

Main problem is the DEO slot. It's like every time Math tries to begin to talk things out with me, Titus swoops in and thoroughly convinces me they're scum again.

[ɀefiend]

town or scum-aligned lyncher? cause it's a RC game?

I just feel a bit of obsession there

postie, no 2nd choice?

Literally impossible. Lyncher wins as soon as they get their target lynched, ergo, they can only be self-aligned.

There's an obsession because she's sure he's scum, or at the very least needs his flip to continue and re-evaluate at this point.

Lol. Don't pretend for a second that my flip will help anyone "reevaluate."

Almost everyone in this game had/has a hard-on for DEO's meta wiggling and my flip will not suddenly make people think "huh... maybe he was right." Ultimately I believe this blind faith and reluctance will cost the game which is why I've spent the majority of my time and effort this game pushing that slots lynch.

[ɀefiend]

Thanks for hosting RC.

GG to Titus and JaeReed for a well-played game, and to mhsmith for being a good guy.

I

believe

know the game would have been different if DEO were just Titus instead of +MathBlade. The frustrations I had with the whole meta argument were sincere. I understand that we all have friends and/or favorites on the site but those relationships shouldn't have such a dramatic effect on gameplay. Respectfully, if you limit yourself to playing within certain confines, you are ultimately weakening your overall abilities as a player to deceive and manipulate.

Even if you don't agree or just think I'm salty because I was mafia, it can also have adverse effects in general: just ask Lycanfire.

I

strongly object

to the scum topic being released. There is a great deal of toxicity in the topic. If Vedith were still on the site, he would probably object too.

[ɀefiend]

I agree the setup is around 60/40 scum-sided (which is ideal, since less people play as scum... your win% should approach 50 after one hundred play-throughs).

The roles were not the problem. The planning and execution of menial things was abysmal in the scum topic. Cohesiveness was not present. Toxicity and pointless arguments were rampant.