Mini 1868 - Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Tammy]

Hi!

So glad this game started on the weekend. Heads up - school starts on Monday and I never know how the first week of the semester is going to go, so I might not be around that much at all next week. If it looks like I won't be able to be here at all, I'll officially go v/la but hopefully it won't be crazy like that. BUT I am kevin mccallister right now, so you have my undivided attention!

VOTE: reflektor

Nacho please be town. I was going to write a jokey appeal, but every time I do that you end up being scum. So, I'm going to be simple. Please be town and let's have fun. I think it's been like six months since we've been on the same team; hopefully the mafia gods will be kind to me for the new year. My luck you're scum with Fate and Cabd though and then I'll have no one to hold my hand.

Hi Fate! Hi BB! I haven't played with you guys in forever.

[Tammy]

Um. Guys.

There are four mafia this game???

[Tammy]

If the vigilante hits town does that mean we only have two mislynches this game?

[Tammy]

I'm not great with figuring this out but,

We mislynch day one (12)
Night kill (11)
Vig kill (10)

Mislynch day two (9)
Night kill (8)

Scum win.

Is that right. We can actually lose this game night two?????

[Tammy]

I don't math but sounds about right. Why do you seem so concerned?

You're not? I like to have some chance at winning.

It's a rare occurrence to get a scum lynch day one, and it's a rarer occurrence that a vig kill lands on scum. That puts us at losing night two unless the stars align perfectly.

[Tammy]

That means nacho's chances of being scum just went up even more

So, this is basically an evil mod game, right? Like hey, games aren't hard enough. Scum don't win enough games around here, let's add an extra member. Oh and as if that's not enough, let's make one of them a godfather too. And limit the cop. Yep that sounds just right.

[Tammy]

VOTE: no lynch

Ayy

Are you voting no lynch because this is a new quirky thing you're doing or do you think it will be beneficial with the set up.

Also I said hi to you

[Tammy]

VOTE: Aj the epic

Scum used to be hard to find

*insert snarky response about you just being bad*

There's really no point in worrying about D2 already. If Vig shoots tonight and misses, then we'll have to mass claim tomorrow. That's about all there is to it.

There's no reason not to be aware of what we're up against and try to figure out what our best chances are.

[Tammy]

I haven't bothered trying to break the setup as the vig/gunsmith introduce so much uncertainty, if nobody else wants to try I can later.

VOTE: Tammy

Don't like the opening posts. I'll review your games later to see if this is a me problem but those opening appeals read horrifically.

I've been awake for well over 30 hours and will be in transit for another 7, so you'll have to deal with Nacho for now. He gets to pick the icon, too.

-Prism

It's definitely a you problem.

Just talk to your other head. You'll have to wait until tomorrow though.

But I would like for you to explain what about them reads horrifically? Like how do you not read that and go oh that looks like she has experience with my other head, maybe I'll talk to my other head about it? How does that not be a thing that enters your mind at all?

[Tammy]

Hi Gamma!

[Tammy]

It's obvious you know Nacho, that doesn't mean I buy the appeal. Me consulting with him later is a given.

-Prism

Okay have fun

What don't you buy about it? Was it the appeal itself or something else about it?

[Tammy]

My cat is snoring so loud. Thought everyone would like to know.

[Tammy]

Yo Molla are you town

Yes sadly

I don't remember you liking scum?

[Tammy]

Would no lynching today be beneficial? We'd go to night with 13 people. The roles could act and we could maybe start day two with more information. Would that help at all or am I being silly?

Also I'm dwelling. Being home alone is no fun.

[Tammy]

Oh that's a good idea.

I think AJ is right about no lynching day one, but not for the reasons he suggested. I don't think any of that is really all that important for solving the game and can easily be done without the day one lynch. BUT roles would be going into tonight blind and probably have a better chance of overlapping, which we do want to avoid.

I'm going to stop thinking about this and try to find something else to occupy my mind. We just really need town to act like town this game if we want half a chance to win this.

[Tammy]

I'm think a mass claim might break this game.
Am I wrong?

I was thinking about that too. My only hesitation is that mafia has a two-shot role blocker. Granted they could only block one person a night, but we would definitely be losing a role and information.

[Tammy]

I'm think a mass claim might break this game.
Am I wrong?

My thought was if we mass claimed we could ensure that the roles did not overlap tonight, but then there's the role blocker.

[Tammy]

If we don't mass claim, there's the chance that the doctor can stop a kill and give us another day.

[Tammy]

Have you read my posts Penguin?

[Tammy]

Actually it's weird that you didn't address my suggestion directly. Is there a reason you're avoiding interacting with me?

[Tammy]

VOTE: medea the alien

I think it's pretty obvious if you've read the posts that they suggestions were made by people thinking out loud about the fact that we have an extra scum member this game which has a good chance of resulting in a scum win night two and people were thinking out loud/offering suggestions to try to give town a better chance. Yes, the suggestions aren't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better to try to figure something out and see if there's a way we can increase our chances of winning.

I do not think that you read the posts in the game and refer to me passively suggesting a no lynch (then deciding against it) and not tell me that yes, I am being silly. I don't think that you don't engage with me on that at all.

[Tammy]

And I don't want my point and suspicion on Medea to be misunderstood as so many interaction reads are.

I am the most active player in this game right now. (Blame me being home alone and bored ). I have been the most active in discussing the setup and suggested the no lynch. Gamma suggested the mass claim. Penguin asked Gamma to clarify his thought process on the mass claim but not my suggestion of the no lynch.

Why ignore mine to ask Gamma why he suggested the mass claim, but not me on the no lynch? That makes no sense. She didn't mention me as being town, so that can't be it. But didn't she find it suspicious at all if she's going to ask why people suggested it? And how do you miss the why?

What sucks is if there was a way to use this setup to our advantage in any way, that's one of the hydras I expected to use it or discuss it. I expected that if they were town they'd engage me on it - either to tell me to settle the fuck down there's nothing I can do or to have an idea if there's something to do. (The other is the nacho hydra, but I don't expect him to post in this game before tomorrow at the earliest so I'll wait with bated breath there.)

I don't understand the town points to AJ for pointing out why some suggestions aren't good. (Also, notice the ignoring my points against the mass claim there.) By saying that AJ gets town points for not buying in, which would suggest she has issues with the suggestions, but again why ignore that I suggested the no lynch. And what would be the scum motivation anyway?

I thought that LUV had the best idea for the vig not to shoot night one if we mislynched; how come that didn't get town points?

I just think that Penguin posted something to post and look like she was engaged with the game, but actually ignored the real crux of the conversations going on which I think she would have addressed if she were town.

[Tammy]

Your interaction with me is still not sitting right. Why are you being antagonistic and kinda putting me down. You're reminding me of the last time I suspected someone and they wrote a whole thing about how I wasn't playing well enough in an attempt to make me feel shitty and ignore they were being scummy as shit like you are.

I didn't read the set up until today when I looked at the player list. I saw godfather out of the corner of my eye and thought that it was cruel to be paired with a one-shot cop. Then I noticed up above that it said 4 scum.

How in the seven hells do you not have any idea what my alignment is?

[Tammy]

The question is why ask gamma why he suggested the mass claim, when it should be abundantly obvious. He literally said he thought it might break the game. How is that not clear?

It sucks you guys are scum. I was really looking forward to playing with you

[Tammy]

Oh so Penguin, since you have done some thinking about the perils of the scum:town ratio, what are your thoughts on it? Do you think there is anything we can do? You know since you've thought about it and all.

[Tammy]

And why is it every game lately I play the people I'm looking forward to playing with are scum? It makes the games so not fun. Watch Fate, BB, and nacho be scum with them.

[Tammy]

Gamma Emerald, why would you want to throw in RQS at this point? Are you dissatisfied with the discourse in progress?

What was your thought process that mass claiming would be useful?

--PA (I sign, nyeh)

[Tammy]

So yes, read your posts, end result wasn't anything I felt like picking further at. I'd read more into it, but I know you do tend to write things out a bit so whatever. It doesn't tell me anything about your alignment.

Can you explain what "I'd read more into it, but I know you do tend to write things out a bit so whatever." means?

[Tammy]

Yo Molla are you town

Yes sadly

I don't remember you liking scum?

I'd like it in a mini with 4 scum ya

Okay that's the answer I was hoping for. I had a thought you were trying to play it cool with sadly, but then I thought you might be referring to the 4 scum thing, which yeah it would be cool to be scum in this setup, and then I thought if that were the answer then it wasn't the alignment indicative thing I thought it might be.

[Tammy]

I'm not sure if anyone is still taking it seriously, but I'm strongly against mass claim. Nothing on our side really suggests it's a good idea, while the fact that there are four scum ought not influence it; aside for putting us into lynch or lose earlier.

However, mightn't there be a virtue in our deciding who the gunsmith and cop should investigate - obviously with the caveat that one wouldn't investigate oneself. Or is that giving scum more info than we'd want to?

I also thought about that. We could maybe put a pool of two to three for the two to investigate out of so that we can avoid the investigating oneself thing. The only drawback to directing in a sense is that scum are involved in the direction process and we might have investigatives who just have a good sense of who to investigate?

[Tammy]

Ignoring RQS.

What suggestions have you made that you think are worth discussing, Tammy? I read you tossing out a lot of frankly not so great ideas and eventually rejecting them, rightly so. Given that this was advertised as the open setup it is, I find it weird that anyone wouldn't have done some cursory thinking about the perils of the town:scum ratio, so why go weird about it now that the game has started?

So yes, read your posts, end result wasn't anything I felt like picking further at. I'd read more into it, but I know you do tend to write things out a bit so whatever. It doesn't tell me anything about your alignment.

I think our best bet is to just play and convince the vigilante to stay put if we mislynch D1.

Okay, so on the playing side of that, you said you have high expectations of this player list. How's that working out from your perspective so far?

--PA

Pedit: I would assume the vig wouldn't shoot night one if it was likely to put us in near-certain LyLo the next day. That...is kind of obvious? Waiting to see more interactions from you, as you going a bit down a rabbit hole isn't alignment indicative to me. And I asked Gamma why RQS, not why mass claim.

Bleh I wish I were a normal person who had all the questions right when I read a post and not act like those kernels that pop minutes after the poppers been turned off.

If you thought it was weird that I got weird about it when the game started, wouldn't that have been enough of something for you to poke at? Why didn't you ask that before I pointed out that you hadn't interacted with me directly? Even if all I was doing was posting nonsense and nothing to poke at further, wouldn't that be the thing? Because if you thought it was weird that should have been pointed out. (On the off chance you are town and this really does read weird to you, ask your other head how often I read the setup or rules before a game starts.)

Also if you thought about the perils of the ratio, and since I was going on about it, why didn't you offer up any of your thoughts? Why did you act like you didn't know the impetus of why we were throwing out such bad ideas.

Also squared why did you ask that question of LUV in this post instead of your first one. Did you reread the game and that stuck out to you the second time?

[Tammy]

VOTE: LUV

this is scum

page 1 posts scream "scum fitting in"

The only thing I didn't like about LUV was when he asked me why I seemed so concerned about four scum. Both because the answer speaks for itself and because of the "seem" there. I wondered if he put the seem there to seem like town who didn't know my alignment. Okay it sounds even sillier now that I wrote it out actually. From the question I was expecting an accusation of me trying to fake not knowing there were four scum, but it didn't come, so.

IDK what do you think about Medea?

[Tammy]

That's just our standard doctor.

[Tammy]

A body guard would die protecting player x in that instance.

Maybe doctor is different on epicmafia?

[Tammy]

We're not doing RQS at this point.

Echoing this. Surprised he went through with it.

Is that the most interesting thing?

Did you miss the question posed to you?

[Tammy]

never mind!

[Tammy]

That means nacho's chances of being scum just went up even more

So, this is basically an evil mod game, right? Like hey, games aren't hard enough. Scum don't win enough games around here, let's add an extra member. Oh and as if that's not enough, let's make one of them a godfather too. And limit the cop. Yep that sounds just right.

Maybe when it's an open game you should read the setup before signing up. Not liking this opening.

I look at playerlists, not setups, when I sign up for games. The only times I read the setup is when it's made clear that it's a mechanical game or to expect something different. Had I read the setup I would not have signed up for the game. I looked at the player list.

What would lead me to think it's an open game anyway? Here's the post I looked at. What looks special about it that I should have noticed. Does it say "OPEN GAME EVERYONE THERE'S FOUR SCUM MAKE SURE YOU NOTICE THAT" anywhere?

Game 1

Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Mafia

(9/13)

Moderator:

Keybladewielder
Game Description

Restrictions: Must have completed 1 Newbie Game.

Players

Gamma Emerald
Reflektor (Nachomamma8 + Prism)
randomidget
Lil Uzi Vert
Empking
Aj The Epic
BBMolla
shadonra
Indigo

Also, what don't you like about my reaction? What is my scum motivation?

[Tammy]

Um. Guys.

There are four mafia this game???

That was known going into the game. Presumably the offset is the two investigatives. That probably balances, but increases swing.

The investigatives are one shot. And there's a godfather and a role blocker.

The game isn't even pretending to be balanced.

[Tammy]

@tammy

Investigative roles aren't gated AFAIK. There's 1 of them, not one shot. Mafia RB, Town Doctor, Town Vig have x shots.

OH color me stupid.

[Tammy]

All bashing of the setup should be saved for post game. Its disrespectful to the mod to bash it now in my opinion.

I'm not bashing it; I'm pointing out that it's unbalanced. And now that it looks like I was completely wrong about the investigatives being one-shot, it might not be as dire as it looks, so.

[Tammy]

So then obviously definitely not on the mass claiming day one

There still might be something to making a pool of players for the investigatives just so that they don't overlap though. (Although with a godfather about that might not be too bad actually.)

[Tammy]

Dammit, just when I was feeling better about the game, false positives arise.

[Tammy]

Who does that?

And why are you acting like I'm supposed to?

Where was my scum motivation for reacting to the setup the way I did though?

[Tammy]

Anyway Persivul do you have anything useful to say or reads on people that don't involve you should have read the setup or doing rqs means you're scum?

[Tammy]

Who does that?

I did, and I believe some other people did.

A theme game is a theme game. I'm ready for shenanigans, sk, two teams, etc. Wasn't ready for four scum in a 13 player game, wouldn't expect that to happen here. I don't worry about setups. I don't care about setups; I care about playerlists.

And why are you acting like I'm supposed to?

Where was my scum motivation for reacting to the setup the way I did though?

In my experience, scum, who know the alignments, are less likely to have thoroughly read the setup than town. Further, while setup spec can be beneficial, it can also be used as a way to appear busy without really scum hunting.[/quote]

That's not even close to my experience. Scum tend to have a better handle on the setup than town, but really it's player dependent. I did, accidentally, read the setup or I wouldn't have been reacting to it.

But you were getting after me for not knowing the setup before hand. I couldn't know my alignment beforehand.

Have I not been scum hunting?

[Tammy]

Anyway Persivul do you have anything useful to say or reads on people that don't involve you should have read the setup or doing rqs means you're scum?

I give you town points for questioning molla on wanting to be scum. Like you, I figured he would answer as he did, but it was a good question.

Do you believe his answer? Do you think it could all be wifom?

I believe his answer.

The answer is not alignment indicative, unfortunately, because it's just true for him as a player. The answer gets rid of the queasy feeling the original response gives me, but it puts him at neutral.

I've been pretty decent at reading BB in the past, so I'm hoping that he'll be a read I'll feel confident about. We haven't played together in a while, but iirc I've never mis-scum read him though I have mis-town read him once or twice - though I think only once knowing he was BB. The other times I thought he was town we were playing alted games and I didn't know who he was.

[Tammy]

What did you think about my point on Medea and what did you think about BB's vote on LUV?

[Tammy]

That's not nacho.

[Tammy]

Not penguin so I'm skipping all the Tammy questions, unless some of them were directed at me. I imagine it does change things that Tammy's posts were made form the point of view of all investigative roles being one-shots. That WOULD be desperate times.

What does it change?

The only thing it changes in my mind is that if we make it to day three we might not be in terrible shape, but that was also before it was pointed out that gunsmith's actually can give false positives. So, yay we have a cop we can't trust and a gunsmith we could use results to mislynch with. Woo.

Whether or not they're one-shot, we can still lose the game on day two.

(And yeah, I had that melt down privately about the day vig was just gonna shut up about the sky is falling bit.)

[Tammy]

more LUV votes? why are we interrogating Tammy who's probably town

My reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong.

VOTE: BBMolla

Don't like BBmolla's defense of Tammy in #128. Next vote would probably be Medea or someone with only one post. I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours so I'll tackle page 5 in the morning.

What didn't you like about BB's defense?

[Tammy]

more LUV votes? why are we interrogating Tammy who's probably town

I haven't felt this town right off the bat in a really long time. It's because I'm home alone with nothing pressing to do

I don't have any town reads I feel good about right now, though there's a little part of me that thinks that nacho would have told prism not to attack me for something little like that and this would be stronger if it weren't for the fact that we got our roles last night and he might not have had a chance to interact with him about it so it's probably nothing, but I do have a couple I'm watching you reads besides my actual scum read. I'm gonna hold off on those though because it's super early in the game and I might just be extra jumpy due to setup paranoia and the fact that I got extra invested earlier than usual because I've been home all day thinking about this and other people probably just aren't.

[Tammy]

Not penguin so I'm skipping all the Tammy questions, unless some of them were directed at me. I imagine it does change things that Tammy's posts were made form the point of view of all investigative roles being one-shots. That WOULD be desperate times.

What does it change?

The only thing it changes in my mind is that if we make it to day three we might not be in terrible shape, but that was also before it was pointed out that gunsmith's actually can give false positives. So, yay we have a cop we can't trust and a gunsmith we could use results to mislynch with. Woo.

Whether or not they're one-shot, we can still lose the game on day two.

(And yeah, I had that melt down privately about the day vig was just gonna shut up about the sky is falling bit.)

There's things in this setup I'd speak more about; but on the off chance scum don't see what I see, I'll leave it until it's relevant or needed. I will say that Penguin and I ran through various scenarios and breaking methods in the shower earlier. None of them play positively when there's so few opportunities for safe error.

Right and I would expect no less from you guys, but that doesn't explain Penguin's entrance and reaction or lack of direct interaction with me. If you guys had been discussing it, I'd expect some comment along that way, not why are you guys suggesting this nonsense. Sot then Penguin's entrance just looks like posturing and if you'd discussed it well then it should have been different.

~~~

I am now sufficiently buzzed that I should be able to fall asleep soon. I promise I won't be overposting like this all game. I really do wish that Fate had commented on something more than AJ and his tone, but I believe he's doing the Canada meet thing so I await him to arrive in all his glory as well.

Nacho if you read this, please post in this game and if you're town please make it obvious. I don't have the luxury of himming and hawing about you until day three because we might not have that long, so if you could do jazz hands, cartwheels, or pole dancing i for one would be super duper grateful

good night all and to all a good night

[Tammy]

What did you think about my point on Medea

Assuming you're referring to 52, I disagree. They said, "WTF is with no lynching and mass claiming being bandied about as good ideas this early?" I agree with that. Those were bad ideas. Your vote is OMGUSsy.

HUH?

I've definitely said more words about my read than 52. Did you just stop reading at that point?

I can't tell if this is a case of you completely misunderstanding, me being unclear, or you willfully mischaracterizing my point and then making a weird accusation based on the mischaracterization. Right now, I kinda want to lean towards door number three because I can't for the life of me understand where you got that idea or that it could possibly even come close to omgussy.

and what did you think about BB's vote on LUV?

It was feelings based on very little information. That's fine for him personally this early in the game, but it does nothing to sway

me

.

I mean it's definitely based on a reaction and his posts in the game; it's not just made up feelings or a tone read. Do you disagree with what BB and Empking see?

What do you think about LUV in general?

[Tammy]

The low effort gold posting will commence for Tammys sake

Yay!

[Tammy]

I've definitely said more words about my read than 52. Did you just stop reading at that point?

Let's be reasonable. When you say "my point on" someone, it's not reasonable to expect me to ISO you, identify everything you've said about the person, and address all of it. I went to the post in which you voted them. If you meant something else, say so, but don't act like it's fault.

I meant exactly what I said. Even if all you read was the post I voted in them, I still don't see how you got that. The last two sentences should have clued you into the fact that your interpretation isn't even close to correct. It was born of a lack of interaction, not whatever interpretation you came up with.

And yes, I do think that in a game of mafia, when there are only five pages, that it's reasonable to expect you to read and even iso to respond. Why I asked you in the first place was because the manner in which you went, and didn't, go through the thread pinged me. You seemed like you were reading the thread. You were interacting and responding to posts as if you were trucking along, but all you really did was respond to setup spec stuff. The only sort of scum hunting response you had was responding to Gamma's RQS post. (What is it with people caring that he did rqs even after someone said not to anyway?) But you stopped commenting on anything going on in the game thread after that except to discuss with me about people being aware of the setup.

I find it odd that you literally stopped responding once actual game relevant stuff started happening. Since you were shooting down setup suggestions, I expected to see you responding to actual scum hunting that was going on, but you merrily ignored it.

I can't tell if this is a case of you completely misunderstanding, me being unclear, or you willfully mischaracterizing my point and then making a weird accusation based on the mischaracterization. Right now, I kinda want to lean towards door number three because I can't for the life of me understand where you got that idea or that it could possibly even come close to omgussy.

IIRC you talked about some strategies...Madea said those were bad ideas...you voted them. IMO that at least comes close to omgussy. Note that omgussy is an observation, not a charge, as you see omgussy town all the time.

Did you actually read my problem with them? Go ahead and read that page to see me explain my read two whole posts later after I voted them.

I mean it's definitely based on a reaction and his posts in the game; it's not just made up feelings or a tone read. Do you disagree with what BB and Empking see?

What do they see? BB voted LUV in 73. LUV had made 5 posts at that point, no more than 2 sentences each. Tell me what this substantive case is they have on her, because I'm not seeing it.[/quote]

Do you or don't you agree with their reasoning?

[Tammy]

Hi Nacho!

I've read all your posts, but I probably won't respond to much until tomorrow. Brain is heading off into lalaville.

Your point on LUV about being around and posting just neutral things is one of the things I was referring to with my I've got a couple of I got my eye on you reads that I wanted to watch. Your response to LUV's original reaction to my concern about the setup looked like you were leaning on it being a townie reaction. Did I misunderstand that or did you change your mind based on the lack of posting and substance.

Not only does Cabd's post imply that they did in fact read the setup and think about it. Well imply is a bad word, he said they discussed it in the shower, so. But Penguin's second post implies that as well. She said this:

"Given that this was advertised as the open setup it is, I find it weird that anyone wouldn't have done some cursory thinking about the perils of the town:scum ratio, so why go weird about it now that the game has started?"

So yeah.

Also I was kinda expecting Cabd to tell me to get my head out of my ass if they were town and I was jumping on something I shouldn't. But I could be wrong about that I guess.

[Tammy]

Yes, I read the entire quote stripe!

Go me.

[Tammy]

Right but that means she thought about the setup before hand and still responded to suggestions the way she did, which is the weird thing.

[Tammy]

Or do you disagree with the Cabd influence possibility I brought up?

No, I can imagine her trusting a cabd interpretation. I just still think that if Penguin!town had thought about or discussed the setup with cabd, her reaction to the suggestions would be different. The post looks like the setup was not thought about or talked about at all, at the very least from a town perspective.

What do you think about her second post to me wherein she says that she doesn't have a read on me and that going down a rabbit hole isn't alignment indicative, and basically implies that my opening was suspicious, which then really makes her lack of interaction an even bigger problem? I was kinda expecting you to respond to that post, but you didn't.

[Tammy]

more LUV votes? why are we interrogating Tammy who's probably town

My reason for scumreading Tammy was wrong.

VOTE: BBMolla

Don't like BBmolla's defense of Tammy in #128. Next vote would probably be Medea or someone with only one post. I haven't slept in nearly 48 hours so I'll tackle page 5 in the morning.

What didn't you like about BB's defense?

Looking at this there's not much to it, looks like Reflektor is making something out of nothing.
VOTE: Reflektor

I have something to say about this, but I want to wait for Prism to answer my original question first.

[Tammy]

No, I can imagine her trusting a cabd interpretation. I just still think that if Penguin!town had thought about or discussed the setup with cabd, her reaction to the suggestions would be different. The post looks like the setup was not thought about or talked about at all, at the very least from a town perspective.

That makes sense.

What do you think about her second post to me wherein she says that she doesn't have a read on me and that going down a rabbit hole isn't alignment indicative, and basically implies that my opening was suspicious, which then really makes her lack of interaction an even bigger problem? I was kinda expecting you to respond to that post, but you didn't.

The "going down a rabbit hole" thing I thought she was referring to you thinking through about the bad ideas and then talking your way out of them which is problematic because of how immediately dismissive it was but that was something I already touched on. As far as implying that your opening was suspicious, I'm not sure that's what she was getting at. Her "I'd read more into it, but" could also be referring to her going after you for things in the past that aren't really scumtells for you; was waiting for her to clarify that when she came into the thread next.

I don't think she's ever gone after me in the past? Anyway I'd like for her to respond to the questions I had before trying to interpret anything more. I think she was posturing through those first two posts regardless.

My worry right now is that you're paying lip service to understanding my scum read there, but offering enough outs so that you don't have to scumread them yourself.

[Tammy]

I don't think she's ever gone after me in the past?

One cookie, one scum.

In a face to face resistance game yes she went after me after you led her around. And she scum read me there because my reaction to your suspicion on me in which I was taken aback by the way you went around it was slower than she thought it would be as town after you capitalized on it there and pushed it.

There's nothing similar to this game here. You really are just giving them an out so you don't have to scum read them aren't you? Why do you always have to be fucking scum??? I feel like pieguyn in cap com right now.

[Tammy]

Whatever I'm going to bed. Have fun directing the conversation away from your partner.

This just sucks.

[Tammy]

I can't tell if that's manipulation or a genuine sentiment there. And I was hoping that it would be like that if you were town as well. But I can't help feeling like that's what you're doing with the Medea interaction. Maybe you're not, maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel that wrong right now and that's just what really sucks.

[Tammy]

Prism - Why did you realize that your original scum read on me was wrong?

[Tammy]

Actually it's manipulation.

[Tammy]

This post will probably be short/probably be long, but will be my last, so.

I'm on my iPad so I'm not going to quote stripe and will be going from memory on what I've gone through.

Pensivul - if you mean why am I scum hunting you when you ask why I'm casting shade on you, it's because I find you suspicious. The things you claim I'm missing in your scum hunting repertoire are you answering questions I asked. That isn't even close to the same as you spontaneously going through the thread and responding to things and I think you know very well the difference. You did stop commenting on the game once things really started picking up. Yes, you answers the questions I asked, but I still find it suspicious that you stopped commenting on things at the point I pointed out.

If you read that first post and it read as a personal reason for a vote then I would expect that to be your interpretation. I still don't get where you're interpretation came from, and I find the mischaracterization of it suspicious. What is your read on Medea?

Sharon - that is one of the easiest conversations for a hydra to lie about. Hell I've lied about more intricate conversations I've had with a hydra partner before.

I'm not getting the suspicion on fate because he wasn't posting. I know I mentioned he was at Canada meet so would be waiting for him. Fates definitely not afraid of posting as scum. So far I've liked his posts. Not a true town read I still don't have one of those, but I've liked what I've seen.

Prism - I never meant to suggest that you had to defer to nacho on everything. I did mean on my opening though. Though if you weren't going to defer to nacho on thoughts on me, why are you waiting to see what he thinks of Medea?

I didn't like random midget or shadonira's opening.

I still believe that Medea is scum.

Penguin - when I asked you what my scum motivation was, I was actually interested in your thoughts. But instead you dodged the question with a misapplication of the circular reading fallacy. You instead claimed something about what I thought also when I wanted your thoughts, not you actually getting completely wrong what you imagined my thoughts to be.

I don't think you needed to repeat yourself in 302 when you made your thoughts clear previously, and I'm, sorry you feel that way. You guys didn't have to sign up after I did if I'm so difficult to deal with you cant scum hunt me. I got the first time that you think I've done nothing alignment indicative, why are you afraid to take a stance on me? I know you said something about me being excited as scum once? You'd have to point that game out. Faking being holy I drew town is something I had to start doing when I was scum because I was getting caught for not being happy to play. So, that makes my first post null obviously. But that covers my first post, nothing else is excited to be playing, or trolling which would be null.

To my recollection we have never had a conflict in a game, so I have no idea where this I can't comment/ask you a question because of the emotional drama it entails comes from. I e been tunneled on and scum hunted plenty and been perfectly fine. But you definitely want to let me know that there's an issue here with me and something to do with my emotions. I think you actually want to get a rise out of me with your posts and reminder that I'm emotionally problematic that way you can sit back and go see that's why I didn't want to engage in the first place. But you are being kinda mechanically antagonistic, that's not quite right, but there is definitely something off and weird, you certainly feel fine kinda putting me in my place so you should be fine actually scum hunting me.

I think it's because you're scum, but on the off chance you are somehow town and this is an actual problem you have with me, I'm leaving. I'm never going to stop thinking you're scum, and if you're actually town and you can't have any inkling on the heart and soul I've put into this game so far and you're sitting back too afraid to scum hunt me because I'll blow up, then that is going to be terrible for this game especially. Hopefully my replacement won't cause any emotional distress here.

I haven't had any issues with bb's posting, and people are making too much of gamma's rqs thing.

Anyways so long, playing with friends isn't all it's cracked up to be, good luck town.

mod - replace me sorry

[Tammy]

Sorry for replacing out!

Good game scum. Maybe one day Nacho will draw town with me again

Thanks for running it kbw.

And lol at mind melding with pieguyn

[Tammy]

Tammy we really needed you to get scumcho lynched

I had no pull this game D1

Awe!

I'm sorry I was silly and replaced out. You were one of the reasons I was looking forward to this game, and yes it would have been nice to have solid backing on that read.