Micro 676: Bill Wurtz Mafia (Game Over)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:10 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Man I can already tell I'm gonna love this theme!

VOTE: Parama
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #53 (isolation #1) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:36 am

Post by Stormcloud »

So glad it looks like this game will be active, at least.

NAI is currently how I'm reading CommKnight's views on claiming/RVS. Scum, even scum unfamiliar with site meta, wouldn't be that transparent about wanting claims on a site that generally encourages claims only at L-1 or with intent to hammer. I think it's more of a culture difference than a scum claim atm.

Both KT and implosion jumped on CK pretty quickly. Possible town motivations include interacting with CK to try and figure out his alignment and hopefully teaching him when claims usually happen. Possible scum motivations include earning town points for saying how bad it is to claim early.

I actually like that implosion took his vote off CK - I feel scum could have pushed on an inexperienced player there as a somewhat easy target, although perhaps it would have been a bit transparent that that was what he was doing. I like his explanation for the initial vote switch to CK.

I like KT's emotion, I don't like his quick jump to CK's wagon. Want to see more of those interactions though, it looks like everyone kinda left that discussion for work/bed and hasn't returned to respond yet.
In post 44, Transcend wrote:Lean town on syr
From a single post? I know it's only a lean, but could you maybe explain that a little more so I can understand? Unless there's reasoning you want to keep back for a bit.

Gamma's contributions so far have been an RVS vote, a joke about Town of Salem, and a conversation about another game with implosion. I don't see anything AI there, but I'd like to see more game-related stuff from him. There's been plenty to comment on, and clearly he was online for a least a little bit. It's enough for me to swap away from my RVS vote for now.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #56 (isolation #2) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:04 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'd like to revise my read on CK - I still believe all the claiming/RVS confusion is NAI, but I dislike his confidence that the first person to vote on him must be scum.
There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.
It's really odd to me that after not even one page of discussion, CK says he is never moving his vote unless implosion claims. Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd. I read through the thread twice assuming I was town!CK and scum!CK and I found the confidence he had really unnerving - perhaps I'm just a less confident player than him, but I don't like the sense of surety at all.

Given my new thoughts on the situation I'm going to switch my vote, but naturally I think there should be a lot more discussion before any claims/lynching occur. This is L-2, I believe.

VOTE: CommKnight
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:28 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Oh it almost definitely is!
I'm pretty new to the game and brand new to this forum, and I'm honestly not sure if it's just this game/these players or if early reads are always this hard. From what I know, you're supposed to just kind of put your thoughts out there (although lots of players don't do this ofc). But as a newbie it seems like my best bet to just give my honest thoughts as often as I can.
CK is just the strongest read I have right now - I'm finding KT's actions difficult to read, and I could see them coming from either alignment so he's pretty much null for me. implosion, basically the same thing.
I am reading you as town, pretty lightly though.
These are all 95% gut at the moment though, I'm really feeling pretty unsure. I'll probably wait until others talk a bit to try and read anyone else.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #60 (isolation #4) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:35 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I don't have a home site, if that's what you're asking. I've played IRL several times and I watch mafia streams, and I've read nearly the whole wiki and spectated some newbie games to get a feel for the site.
This is my first game on a forum though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #63 (isolation #5) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:57 am

Post by Stormcloud »

There is definitely an alternate reading of him as very new town with some slightly odd ideas about how to catch scum. He says he wants discussion, which is good, although I disagree that we should be encouraging early claims to spur the discussion on. He is posting a lot, which is normally NAI but if he actually is a new player and not an alt I'd say it's a good sign. I've seen quite a few lurky new scum players in the newbie games and it's somewhat hard to fake that level of eagerness as a new player. That said, I don't think he's new to mafia, just to the site, so I don't want to underestimate him.

I like that he got us out of RVS (perhaps unintentionally as he didn't know what it was lol).

It seems like you liked him putting you at L-2, which makes sense. Early wagons and pressure are generally good for discussion, even if no one claims.

I don't think both scum are in {CK, Kain, implosion}, but other than that I just don't know what to think about the whole interaction. It was very interesting, but I could see town and scum motivations from everyone involved (and Kain and implosion are clearly not new players, so I don't want to naively townread them for things easily faked).

One thing I'm a bit curious about with regard to you - you said you don't care about previous games, yet you asked me where I'm from. People often seem to ask that so that they can read a player's previous games on their home site, but I'm guessing that wasn't your intent since you said you don't read previous games. Was there some other reason you wanted to know?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #64 (isolation #6) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:26 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I realized I said a lot but didn't answer your question directly.
Your stated reason for townreading CK is for his L-2 vote on you - you said it seemed genuine and not opportunistic. I agree that that's towny, if pretty lightly so.
The part I didn't like was his response to implosion's vote on him, which I don't think you addressed anywhere? You continued to townread CK and I didn't see you state any other reasons why you did.
So, I don't think your townread and my scumread are incompatible - we're just looking at different things that CK did and weighting them differently because we are different people.

I'm not going to sheep your reads because you're more experienced than me - for one thing if I did that I'd be sheeping nearly every person in the game. But I will take them into account!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #69 (isolation #7) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:46 am

Post by Stormcloud »

My reasoning behind the confidence read was that scum are generally more confident in their reads (at least newer/easier to read scum, everything is possible to fake of course). I didn't like that CK seemed to think he had instantly caught a scum day 1 and stated that he wouldn't move his vote, ever. It just doesn't seem town to me. Call it gut, I guess.

Your explanation, if I understand correctly, is that CK believes implosion doesn't want a claim and thus is stalling discussion, and therefore implosion is scum. That's pretty believable, except that 4 or 5 different people then explained to CK why the whole early claiming thing is a bad idea, why it makes sense that implosion wouldn't want a claim this early, etc. From there, CK refused to move his vote and said he believes his early vote on implosion was correct, even when presented with the argument that implosion was not trying to deny town discussion at all and that not claiming is accepted amongst the majority of players in the game.

That said I can definitely see how Comm might just be misguided town. I'm not going to let go of my gut read on him that easily, but I don't wish to tunnel too hard. I'd like to see some involvement from other players on the issue.

This is your first non rvs post and I'm reading it as basically trying to get a read on me/interact with me, but this post reads very slightly like a) attacking comm's attacker and b) giving comm a chance to reevaluate/change his mind so you can townread him when he (perhaps) decides that his analysis was wrong. But, I don't want to jump to conclusions yet just based on a slight gut read, and I've heard associative reading on day 1 is bad for some reason.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #72 (isolation #8) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:09 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Surely you're not refering to your initial analysis and vote on Implosion?
This is what you said to Comm, referencing his statement that his initial read on implosion was correct. It seems like you couldn't believe that would be true and you're looking for him to change his views after implosion had a chance to respond. Which I agree with, I also want to hear what Comm's current views on implosion and the game in general are. I said you could potentially townread him if he backs off on this because it seems to me like you want him to back off on it (maybe I'm just getting a tone from your statement that you didn't intend).

My original read on his comments surrounding claiming/RVS hasn't changed, I don't think any of that is AI. He clearly does (or did) believe that claiming is ideal, but even within that worldview I still think parking your vote and declaring that it will never move on one person after that person's only posts in the game were an RVS vote and then an unvote and vote on you, is scummy. In that worldview where claims are ideal and implosion looks scummy for unvoting, I would have certainly voted him, poked at him, asked him why he unvoted, etc, but I just don't think a single action on day 1 should ever be enough for a town player to
permanently
scumread someone (which is what CK claimed he was doing). It's fine for CK to declare that he found that action scummy, to vote for implosion, all that is great (and in fact if that was all he had done I probably would town read him for it). But parking your vote on the first page and declaring you are doing so is just weird. He can have odd views on claiming and RVS, but I don't think parking your vote that early based on a single interaction is ever pro-town. What if CK comes to scumread someone else even more 7 pages later? Is he going to go back on what he said, or stick with his early read because he said he would?

I guess the tl;dr is that the vote locking is what pings me, not the fact that he was suspicious of implosion in the first place (that part makes total sense).

The scum radar that was annoying me about your first post has gone down considerably. Not sure why yet though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #73 (isolation #9) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:25 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Although all this analysis has been interesting, I feel like I'm having a lot of trouble forming a solid read on anyone, even the most active players. Is this normal for this point in the game?

In real life, body language and tone obviously play a huge part in reads and taking those away is causing me to struggle a bit. I know it's just something to learn switching over but I feel kind of lost.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #76 (isolation #10) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:38 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree on the vote hop being a bit odd - perhaps it takes me longer to think through what things might indicate town vs scum? I posted initially with my thoughts on the interaction, but I guess I just focused on different parts of it and that part didn't really ping my radar until a second read. I made the first post right after I woke up, and I thought about the situation in the car on my way to work, then posted the second post once I arrived.

I do tend to skim when I read books and only catch certain details on a reread, so I guess I'm not sure why this is problematic. I could have read the thread when I woke up and then waited a while and thought a bunch before posting, but like I said earlier I thought putting my thoughts on the situation out in the open is more helpful than bottling them all up for later. It probably means I'll be changing my views and reads a bit more often, but I don't see an issue with that. I think I'd do this regardless of alignment.

Hopefully that answers your issues regarding the vote switch. The vote on Gamma was just because my RVS vote was still up and Gamma was the person I wanted to hear from the most at the time I made that post. After thinking a bit more I decided to change it to CK. I'll probably leave it there until he gets back on and responds at least.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #111 (isolation #11) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:59 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@Comm
I saw implosion's initial vote for you as an attempt to generate discussion - it was the first non-RVS vote. I view generating discussion as generally town motivated. I agree that switching a vote with no reasoning at all is generally a scummy move, but I'd say during RVS/on page one that it's far less so, and in this case I saw it as town trying to get a reaction out of you. If he had explained his reasoning for that move right in that post, he wouldn't have gotten the same reaction from you.
Also, although I know you hold the view that unvoting means no claim and is therefore anti-town, perhaps consider that implosion disagrees with the idea of early claiming and therefore from his point of view, changing his vote to someone he views as more scummy is instead the best way to generate town discussion. Even if you disagree with him on the meta, it's still possible for his actions to be town motivated (just as several people here disagree with your meta, but town read you).

Have you ever played an all-vanilla game, where there are no claims? Just curious.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #112 (isolation #12) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:07 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Although I do think you're tunneling a little bit on implosion, I could be accused of the same regarding you, and your latest post has put you in more of a town direction for me.

I like the suspicions everyone is having regarding KT and I would like to hear his explanation for his late vote on CK. Rereading, it does seem a little opportunistic, but the thing that's been preventing me from completely scumreading him for it is that I don't think scum would be that obvious. But I'd like to hear KT's explanation.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #116 (isolation #13) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:44 am

Post by Stormcloud »

How do you know my tentativeness is scummy rather than towny? I feel I've been pretty tentative the whole game, not really having solid reads. I know that's a traditional scum tell, but it's what I'm honestly feeling. I don't know who to read as scum at this point. You're maybe the closest thing I have to a scumread, but I'm not feeling confident enough to move my vote right now.

You still never explained why you posted 13 (fluff) and then after that 15 (where you started your argument with CK). It could be as simple as you deciding to post some fluff and then rereading the thread a few minutes later and noticing CK's post and then making post 15, but you avoiding explaining and getting defensive is what's confusing me here.

I'm not looking to lynch you right here and now, I'm just trying to figure out your alignment and I want more information about what you're thinking.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #117 (isolation #14) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:49 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I have been burned in the past by seeing obvious scummy behavior and tunneling on that person way too hard - then they turn out to be town and I've not only pushed a mislynch, but everyone suspects me for pushing that mislynch and we end up with two mislynches because of it. I think it's perfectly normal for town to be paranoid about reading someone as heavily scummy when it seems too easy and obvious to be true.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #118 (isolation #15) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:53 am

Post by Stormcloud »

If you do get lynched and I was part of your wagon, I'll take responsibility. Anyone who votes on a wagon is responsible for the lynch. All I said in 112 was that I found those posts odd (like others here) and I (like them) wanted an explanation, but instead of giving one you got very defensive.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #123 (isolation #16) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:11 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@Comm I like what implosion's had to say. He's not my strongest town read by a long shot but I just think our views on the game are so different that neither of us is likely to convince the other of what implosion's alignment is. We could argue for the rest of Day 1 and I don't think either of us would change our read on him, so I don't see the value in continuing that discussion. I understand why you're scumreading him, but I just don't agree with it.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #124 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:17 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 35, implosion wrote:
I have a somewhat scummy first impression of Kain. The Comm vote looks somewhat awkward/opportunistic simply by virtue of only happening after mine, yet having reasoning that was already available when Kain made post . jumps to conclusions, accusing Comm of refusing to take his vote off and tunneling pretty shortly after the vote on Transcend. It looks like jumping on the easy target. The last line of reads as trying to keep options open to switch to a wagon on me if Comm starts being read as town.

Unvote

VOTE: Kain
In post 74, Syryana wrote: Kain read deteriorated somewhat. Still like Comm.
In post 103, Parama wrote:
In post 93, Transcend wrote:Parama in terms of the "opportunism" between implo/Kain, I think town!Kain is much more likely to make a bad vote like that than town!implo
but have you at all read the posts in context

could've been the same post as but kain didn't vote until after implosion did
These are the others who seemed to be at least a little suspicious of you. I agree with their suspicions. I was being pretty liberal when I said everyone - it's definitely not everyone, but it is some people I am at least lightly townreading right now.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #127 (isolation #18) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:44 am

Post by Stormcloud »

It's kinda funny, I'm reading you more and more town as we chat here, but my reads are near opposite from yours.
Mini little readlist, I do have justifications for these but I don't want to wallpost yet again so I'll leave it shortened for now. Tweet's my strongest read by quite a bit.
Town
Tweet (townread)
Parama (townlean)
implosion (townlean)
Gamma (null)
Transcend (nullscum)
Syryana (nullscum)
KT (nullscum)
Scum

My town reads are relatively stronger than my scumreads right now.
CK is not on the list right now as I'm just really unsure where to put him. I keep going back and forth on it. I don't want to lynch him today.
Current preferred lynch pool (mostly POE) {Transcend, Syryana, KT}
Yeah yeah I know my vote's still on CK, I'm not moving it until I feel a little more confident.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #130 (isolation #19) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:26 am

Post by Stormcloud »

My issue isn't with you posting fluff at all, it's that you posted fluff (proving you were actively in the thread), but didn't vote for CK until several minutes later, after implosion changed his vote. Why not post your 15 immediately? Did you not read CK's post 11 until after you made your fluff post?

Sequence of events (hopefully fairly objective)
CK posts his RVS vote and states that he wants to get a claim quickly
Mod posts a vote count
KT posts fluff (NAI)
implosion unvotes and votes for CK. Doesn't add any reasoning at the time, later says he likes to change his vote on page 1 to generate discussion.
KT votes for CK and expresses shock/suspicion that he wants a quick claim

So why wasn't it more like this:
CK posts his RVS vote and states that he wants to get a claim quickly
Mod posts a vote count
KT votes for CK and expresses shock/suspicion that he wants a quick claim
then implosion does whatever he'd do in that situation (might be the same, might be different)

My point is, when you made the fluff post you had all the info you needed to make post 15. Why didn't you (or make it right after your fluff post instead of a bit later after implosion's?)

To be clear, I don't really find your page one actions very scummy at all - I find your refusal to explain and work with me far more suspicious.

Yeah, my "completely scumreading" comment was badly worded. I guess a better wording would be "preventing me from scumreading him more than I currently am". I.E. if I thought scum!KT would be that obvious, I would be scumreading you more. But I'm not, because I think scum!KT would be better than that and might not do something so obvious.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #136 (isolation #20) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:42 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Well that was a good half-dozen posts we could have skipped lol
I don't love how defensive you got about the whole thing, but I do think there's a good chance it was just a TvT misunderstanding. You're back to null for me, and the scumhunting starts anew!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #141 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:59 am

Post by Stormcloud »

let's see...i'm actually curious too as it was mostly a gut read from a couple pages back.

I liked the vote on CK and the later explanation for the vote change - that it's something he often does on day 1 to start discussion. It was the first "serious" vote of the game and I like that. I haven't looked at past games to see if he's telling the truth about this being a common action for him though.

Next he talks a whole bunch about the claiming stuff so that's NAI. He's generally skeptical of CK's instant scumread, and doesn't react defensively at all. At this point I'm feeling either town or pretty experienced, flippant scum.

He pointed out the same thing that bugged me about your page one posts (which bother me quite a bit less now, I do accept your explanation at least for today). But picking up on similar scumtells makes me like him.

He later votes for Transcend, joining a growing wagon. This is opportunistic and it's probably the scummiest thing he's done, but I can see the town motivation - discussion about CK was stalling a bit and pressuring people/forming wagons is generally pro town. If this went to a lynch and Transcend flipped town I'd look a little harder at the timing of how implosion joined the wagon, but given that it hasn't yet and I'm also lightly scumreading Transcend, I don't mind implosion's vote here.

He then questions Transcend about his POE system. The questions seem pretty genuine and like he's really just curious about Transcend's mindset, not like he's trying to get him mislynched. Obviously it's a bit early on day 1 for the mafia to hard scumread someone and try and push a mislynch, but that doesn't seem to be implosion's goal here.

So yeah, light townread, the lightest of my three probably.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #142 (isolation #22) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:06 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Unfortunately this is my first game of forum mafia anywhere, so I don't have any links for you. I've played IRL 4 or 5 times but no recordings. I do tend to be very unsure of my early reads - in my last game I think I gave a grand total of two reads day 1 (both correct surprisingly).

I don't believe it's alignment indicative for me, but it's hard to say since I've never rolled mafia before.

You're null to me because some of your actions seem scummy, and others seems towny. Therefore, I can't make up my mind. I'm definitely not townreading you the way I am some others, but someone in the game has to be scum, and I haven't ruled you out yet. I will say you're no longer on my want to lynch list for today.

Unless the scum lie in the more lurky people, I think this game is kinda hard. So many people seem town to me today.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #143 (isolation #23) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:12 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 138, KainTepes wrote: try to keep neutral so they don't attract too much attention.
I'm doing a lot of things, but trying not to attract attention certainly isn't one of them!

I agree that fencesitting is a somewhat common scumtell. I think it's probably worse later in the game when scum want to be able to say "I thought he might be town!" after someone flips - basically acting really unsure to try and fake that they didn't want to lynch that person. On day 1 I think it's NAI, unless the person gives literally 0 reads.

When I do finally get a decent read, or vote with the intention to lynch, I will own that vote regardless of the flip - not taking responsibility isn't my style.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #146 (isolation #24) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:38 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I explain that below the list - Gamma is null because he hasn't said much of anything yet, but CK is null because I can't make up my mind.
If I had to give a read I'd say town right now. He's sticking to his reads and views, even if I don't agree with them. Scum might have decided to blend in a bit more in that situation and let go of their convictions to make peace. I still don't like that he refuses to move his vote without a claim on principle, but I can accept that that's a difference in culture and not indicative of scum.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #149 (isolation #25) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:54 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Sorry Transcend - I think the reason my posts tend to be so long is because I've seen a lot of situations on this site where someone makes an argument, but words it oddly/doesn't really explain too clearly, and then a whole big discussion gets started over a simple misunderstanding that didn't have to happen if the first person just explained very clearly and unambiguously what they were thinking in the first place. I'll try and shorten my thoughts as much as I can!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #154 (isolation #26) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:00 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah, you and everyone and everyone's mom. (no, KT, I don't mean EVERYONE, it's an exaggeration ;) )
I feel like I'm getting pocketed/buddied somewhere. So many people look so obvtown to me right now (except Gamma but that's only because he hasn't posted in ages and nothing AI). But we can't all be town.
KT and CK look strange but not like scum strange, just a little bit weird strange.
Tweet needs to come back because boy do I really love her analysis, even when it is directed at me. Same for Parama. But it hasn't really been that long, I guess I'm just impatient.

I hope you'll excuse my paranoia regarding your read of me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #155 (isolation #27) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:01 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Above was directed at Transcend if that isn't clear.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #160 (isolation #28) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:18 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@Comm Could you explain your thoughts on Parama? I know you don't like implosion, and you said you like myself and KT. I'd like to hear about others if you have any reads to share.

(btw I don't really care much about this but I am female and my preferred nickname is Storm if you're gonna shorten it)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #162 (isolation #29) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:22 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@Syryana I'm Scumreading Transcend for somewhat the same reason I'm slightly suspicious of you - I feel like I'm getting buddied. I'm not 100% sure that your (and/or his) townreads on me are genuine. Right now nearly everyone looks pretty town or null to me, and I'm scared that a more experienced player will take me along for the ride and turn out to be scum at the end.

It's probably just newb paranoia, but hey, most likely at least two people have to be scum and I'm doubtful on Tweet, Comm, Parama, and implosion right now...so by POE you and Transcend fall in my scum pool.

I'm actually more suspicious of you than Transcend purely because I've read a Transcend game before (don't remember which one) and he was equally slightly odd there. I think he turned out to be town.

But really, in a world where the number of mafia could be 0, I wouldn't be scumreading you guys. It's POE.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #165 (isolation #30) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:26 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@Syryana I love your initial reaction to the KT vote (that was mine too lol), but in the end I think KT was just town jumping to conclusions. Maybe even reaction testing me. I understand if you scumread him for it but I'm currently not.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #167 (isolation #31) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:34 am

Post by Stormcloud »

About Parama:
He agreed with implosion's suspicions about the KT vote.
His thought process regarding Comm's suspicions of implosion but not KT were very similar to mine. (post 81)
I liked his little reaction to Transcend's vote on me - he seemed to find it opportunistic, as did I. But since the wagon didn't really take off and Transcend seems to like me more now, I guess we aren't gonna get much more development on that.
He seems to be evaluating everyone, looking for inconsistencies, a lot of the things he picked up on are things I also picked up on.

I liked that he questioned Transcend's motivations for voting me, but didn't instantly TR me or let me off the hook. He called my posts awkward and said he didn't know whether it was town or scum awkward.
Like I said I'd like to hear more from him, but it hasn't even been 12 hours yet so it's not like he's lurking.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #170 (isolation #32) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:43 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree, but to a sufficiently skilled player, I think just about anything is fakeable. The fact that at least 2, possibly more of the people I'm talking to right now are not pro-town is evidence enough of that for me, because they all seem pretty darn pro-town.

At some point I have to go with my gut. I pretty much assume everyone is skilled and capable of faking just about anything, and then try my best to figure it out from there.

If you have knowledge specific to Parama and his tendencies/abilities then by all means feel free to share!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #173 (isolation #33) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:55 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Gah why is everyone in this game so fucking town
I feel like votes have moved very very little for the amount of discussion we've had. I'm not even sure we've had a wagon since the Transcend one and some random votes on Gamma to try and flush him out of hiding.

But that's probably because no one besides CK and Parama seems to have a solid, non POE scumread (am I wrong about that? Correct me if I am.)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #175 (isolation #34) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:59 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I think Gamma is a fairly easy lynch for scum to push/join, given that he's the only one not contributing atm. I feel like his flip won't give us much info given that he hasn't interacted with anyone in any meaningful way. I kind of want a lynch that people have stronger opinions about, but I'm not opposed to it either. I don't have a better alternative right now.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #177 (isolation #35) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:04 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Sorry lol, I didn't mean it to. Blame it on everyone in this game not really doing anything all that scummy I guess? You also seemed to be townreading everyone in your big posts and doing POE when asked who you scumread.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #178 (isolation #36) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:12 am

Post by Stormcloud »

implosion is the townread that's closest to null for me as well - KT and CK have both gone up and down on my rankings while implosion just kinda sat there.
Why do you not like the KT hop? Is it too opportunistic? Just pings you the wrong way?
I read it as him reading CK as town after the whole claiming discussion, then rereading and seeing Kain's vote come after his and that made him suspicious. He does seem to be more liberal than most of the players here in regards to moving his vote around onto anyone he wants to pressure, but I think that's probably more of a personal gameplay thing than AI.

Of course, I haven't read his past games so I can't say for sure.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #183 (isolation #37) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:10 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Well they'll have their work cut out for them killing active scumhunting players in this game...
I'm curious to see how Gamma's wagon develops in the future.

After a reread, my top suspects are Transcend and Syryana - not a huge change from where I was before or anything, just that rereading has not made me feel any better about the two of them. Don't think they are scum together though, unless they both enjoy bussing.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #185 (isolation #38) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:12 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm definitely not townreading you based on your previous game - I'm saying that my gut instincts on you, whatever they are, might be affected by your odd playstyle. I'm aware of this, but I don't think it's heavily influencing my read right now.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #187 (isolation #39) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:13 am

Post by Stormcloud »

And you're (relatively speaking) one of my stronger scumreads atm so don't worry lol. I'm still plenty paranoid about you ;)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #188 (isolation #40) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:15 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Syryana are you saying I'm running in circles? I thought I've been pretty transparent about how my reads developed over time. I have to scumread someone, and it's currently not going to be Tweet, implosion, CK or KT. Parama is falling off for me right now but still just outside the POE.
Which leaves you and Transcend, and our resident lurker.

Who would you have me scumread instead of you?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #190 (isolation #41) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:30 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 141, Stormcloud wrote:let's see...i'm actually curious too as it was mostly a gut read from a couple pages back.

I liked the vote on CK and the later explanation for the vote change - that it's something he often does on day 1 to start discussion. It was the first "serious" vote of the game and I like that. I haven't looked at past games to see if he's telling the truth about this being a common action for him though.

Next he talks a whole bunch about the claiming stuff so that's NAI. He's generally skeptical of CK's instant scumread, and doesn't react defensively at all. At this point I'm feeling either town or pretty experienced, flippant scum.

He pointed out the same thing that bugged me about your page one posts (which bother me quite a bit less now, I do accept your explanation at least for today). But picking up on similar scumtells makes me like him.

He later votes for Transcend, joining a growing wagon. This is opportunistic and it's probably the scummiest thing he's done, but I can see the town motivation - discussion about CK was stalling a bit and pressuring people/forming wagons is generally pro town. If this went to a lynch and Transcend flipped town I'd look a little harder at the timing of how implosion joined the wagon, but given that it hasn't yet and I'm also lightly scumreading Transcend, I don't mind implosion's vote here.

He then questions Transcend about his POE system. The questions seem pretty genuine and like he's really just curious about Transcend's mindset, not like he's trying to get him mislynched. Obviously it's a bit early on day 1 for the mafia to hard scumread someone and try and push a mislynch, but that doesn't seem to be implosion's goal here.

So yeah, light townread, the lightest of my three probably.
Any specific questions?
I'd like to hear more from him for sure - if he's lurking I don't like that, there's tons to comment on. But he's only been gone for 11 hours - probably just work/sleep.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #191 (isolation #42) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:33 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I feel that my reads aren't going to change or develop much further until Gamma, implosion and/or Parama have given some thoughts. I'd be happy to chat with you and answer any questions you have though :)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #193 (isolation #43) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:38 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah. I'm honestly kinda sad that I'm scumreading you - I like you as a player and I don't want you to turn out to be scum lol.
But gotta separate emotion from reads as much as I can.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #199 (isolation #44) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Quick little unofficial VC I was doing to keep track for myself, hopefully correct

[3] Transcend (Gamma Emerald, Parama, implosion)
[1] Gamma Emerald (Morning Tweet)
[1] CommKnight (Stormcloud)
[3] implosion (CommKnight, Transcend, KainTepes)

[1] Not Voting (Syryana)

I'm ok with some pressure on implosion. This wagon is intriguing me. Not gonna join it yet though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #209 (isolation #45) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:07 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 181, Morning Tweet wrote:
@Comm
What information do we gain from, say, a doctor revealing his role? What does this do to spur discussion?
Tweet I love you, but I hate this question. We've established that Comm believes, rightly or wrongly, that early claims help town. Several people have provided some very good reasons why that is probably incorrect. He has stuck to his views.
I don't want to see a whole bunch of pages of discussion on the merits of claiming vs not claiming. I don't think it's going to do anything to spur on discussion. I don't believe the rest of the players are going to convince Comm that he's wrong.
He did outline why he supports claiming in a fairly detailed manner early on - I just don't think the topic deserves yet more posts devoted to it.

Unless perhaps that isn't why you're asking him that at all, and there's some deeper motivation to this question that you really think will help you determine his alignment beyond what he's said so far?

I'm just not seeing it if that's the case.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #210 (isolation #46) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:08 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Didn't see your latest post when I posted - I agree on the setup spec and on the rest of it - I take it you're also TRing implosion?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #211 (isolation #47) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:10 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I want to join both the Transcend and implosion wagons for additional pressure and intrigue but I'm not sure if anyone in this group would lolhammer, and I DO NOT want discussion cut short like that.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #214 (isolation #48) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:13 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 212, Morning Tweet wrote: I do disagree with Comm's basis for scumreading implo + really want to add Comm to my town block but have yet to see AI posts.
It's like you're reading my mind.
It's honestly slightly creepy lol.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #216 (isolation #49) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:14 am

Post by Stormcloud »

So you wouldn't self hammer as scum here to cut day 1 short?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #228 (isolation #50) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:53 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

@mod do v/la players still need to post every 72(?) hours
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #264 (isolation #51) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:24 am

Post by Stormcloud »

My scumread on Transcend has only gotten stronger these past couple pages. His 194 is extremely suspicious and opportunistic. He sees a wagon on himself growing, doesn't flip out about it because he's not a newb, but then sees some people expressed doubt about implosion and jumps on that as his way out. The timing of that vote switch and how quickly this wagon grew is absolutely locking him in as scum for me.

I do think that means KT is town if Transcend is scum, as scum wouldn't buddy up that closely together.

DO NOT hammer implosion before town has come to a consensus. I will treat it as a scum claim. If he somehow gets lynched and I die in the night, KILL FUCKING TRANSCEND.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #265 (isolation #52) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:26 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Parama man, if you really think I'm locktown, trust me here. Transcend is far more scummy than implosion.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #266 (isolation #53) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:27 am

Post by Stormcloud »

You've seen my comments toward people townreading me in the past - I regard them with suspicion and am paranoid that they are buddying me.
Ask yourself why, if I'm town, I'm not reacting that way toward implosion's comments about me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #267 (isolation #54) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:29 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Also you asking for a hammer on implosion right away, not asking for implosion to claim or anyone else to discuss when we have 10 days to deadline in an active game
Come on man, I don't think you're scum here at all, but that's just not pro-town play
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #268 (isolation #55) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:44 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Tweet and Syryana, I'd really love to know both your thoughts on this wagon and the events leading up to it. Also Syry, do you tend to not vote much on day 1? You haven't put a vote anywhere at all yet, so I'm curious.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #271 (isolation #56) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:13 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Comm, why do you scumread Tweet and Syry? Any particular reason?

What do you think about my posts regarding the implosion wagon?

What do you think of Transcend? Town, scum, null? I really want to hear your thoughts on him most of all.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #272 (isolation #57) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:15 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Oh I apologize, didn't see your reads list.
Comm if you truly think I'm town, then implosion is not mafia. It's possible both of us are town. It's possible both of us are mafia (from your pov ofc). It is not possible that I'm town and he's mafia.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #273 (isolation #58) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:17 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Are you not bothered by the fact that Parama asked for a hammer rather than a claim from implosion? Since you love claiming so much, I'd think you would want to hear a claim from your top scumread rather than an instant hammer with no claim.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #275 (isolation #59) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:03 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Others were suspecting Transcend at the time, so Transcend wanted to start a competing wagon. implosion was a good target because most people were pretty null on him and I can absolutely see how some of his posts do look pretty scummy, so it wasn't hard to gain some support (clearly, not everyone on the implosion wagon can possibly be scum so at least some town are reasonably convinced by Transcend's arguments).
Hopefully that clarifies what I thought was going on on those pages.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #277 (isolation #60) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:27 am

Post by Stormcloud »

KT care to explain your thoughts on the past few pages any further?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #279 (isolation #61) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:38 am

Post by Stormcloud »

It was implied that he read at least some of the thread and agreed with the Transcend wagon over the implosion one. A vote doesn't say a whole lot, but it's something.
Have you got any thoughts to share, Tweet? I think it's really odd that just as things were getting super interesting the game slowed down a ton. Maybe everyone's just off doing real life stuff :/
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #281 (isolation #62) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:41 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I mean my post was pretty sarcastic too. I'll admit I'm a bit annoyed that after that much time and that many posts, KT's only contribution is a vote.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #282 (isolation #63) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:44 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yes I want to lynch Transcend eventually, but we have 11 days. Might as well use as much as we can to actually talk, analyze some wagons, discuss claims if any occur. Then whatever flips we do get will give us more info for the following day. A basically naked vote helps none of that except the lynching part.

I really dislike how CommKnight seemed to assume we'd be sleeping soon. I don't know how it is on his home site but I highly doubt this day is gonna end that soon. We just got into the interesting bit!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #285 (isolation #64) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:06 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend, why do you think you're getting lynched today? So far it looks like implosion's wagon has a lot more momentum and there are still several others who deserve a good look.
Is this a common thing you do when pushed day 1 as town by misguided town?
Is it an appeal to emotion, to get the town to lighten up on you?
Why do you seem to think you can't fight back against me? I'm really new, I feel like lots of players would be tearing me apart right now. Instead you just sort of roll over like it's inevitable.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #286 (isolation #65) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:08 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I can certainly understand just not really being all that into a certain game in particular but I guess it's hard for me to see a reason to be unmotivated right now. I feel incredibly motivated!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #292 (isolation #66) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:19 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Alright, you're town who happened to unknowingly push on a (for the moment lets assume) conf!town on day 1. I don't feel like town just gives up at that point - if it was me, I'd take a step back and reconsider the game from that angle, and try and find who the real scum is, since it isn't the person I first suspected.
I'm willing to not lynch you today - CK is looking worse and worse for me. I believed the newb/misguided town argument everyone else had for a while, but I'm really not liking his last post and how it entirely ignored everything I said prior to it.

If we don't lynch you or implosion today, who's your top choice?
And don't say Gamma, that's just lazy.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #294 (isolation #67) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:29 am

Post by Stormcloud »

That's an interesting statement.
When you say you townread a lot of people here, is syr included in that?
I'm not sure what his odds of flipping scum are - that's just an odd thing to say. Everyone's odds, from the point of view of a town player and assuming a 2:7 game, are 25% scum, 75% town. Then your own reads and opinions adjust that number up or down. But no one except scum and certain PRs know for certain what anyone else's odds of flipping town or scum are for sure. So that's just a really odd thing to say imo.
What do you think implosion's odds of flipping scum are right now?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #297 (isolation #68) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:40 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I certainly don't want scum to skate by while I valiantly mislynch you, but nor do I want to let you live today, die in the night for being obvtown, and then watch as town flounders around and you continue to escape because I let you off day 1. I would really regret that.
I hope you can see my dilemma here. If you're town, you gotta help me see that fact because right now, I'm just not.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #299 (isolation #69) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:52 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In real life/video mafia, there's a concept called projecting town. I'm not sure if this is used in forum mafia at all, but it's basically the combination of tone, emotion, and genuineness that make someone obviously town.
Not all town can project town every game - some people are better at it than others. It's also not impossible to fake as mafia, although it's pretty hard.
You are not projecting town one bit for me. Your attempts to scumhunt seem half hearted. I have seen you play before and I think you also basically gave up in that game too once a tiny bit of pressure was on you. If you are town it makes the game really hard for town if you react like that whenever there's the slightest bit of interest in you. It makes you a much more attractive lynch than someone who goes down fighting because worst case, we lost a really demotivated town. Best case, you were actually scum.

You say you aren't good at defending yourself - you have the same number (actually less now, I think) of votes as I did just a few pages back, and look at me now. Basically universally townread. It's really not all that hard, I'm brand new and managed it.
I guess that's why I'm scumreading you so much to be honest - because I know that if I were in your spot as town, I would have reacted completely differently. It might just be a personality/playstyle difference though, which is what I'm nervous about.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #300 (isolation #70) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:00 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

:(
Well if the rest of day 1 is going to be like this then I guess I'm ok with lynching a bit earlier.
Not sure if everyone's busy or just doesn't have anything to say right now.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #303 (isolation #71) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:14 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Sorry, what's the argument again?
Anyone can make a readslist, I don't think it's a huge town tell. I agree that Transcend has at least been trying to sort people and scumhunt which is good, but so has nearly everyone else in the game. I think nearly everyone has given at least a partial readlist.
Not seeing how it makes him town at this point.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #305 (isolation #72) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:17 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Kain I agree highly, it's very hard to tell if this is frustration from town!Transcend that his day 1 scumread was just wrong (which is understandable), or scum trying to emotionally manipulate town. I wouldn't put it out of his abilities for sure. I think town knowing they might be mislynched would throw all their thoughts down on the table so that town has as much to go on as possible the next day, but I can understand being upset at one's mislynch and not doing that out of frustration too.
I'd really like some other players to weigh in on whether they think Transcend is the best lynch we have today or whether we should push another target. No one but him and implosion have been under any real pressure yet.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #307 (isolation #73) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:18 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

The defending post seems genuine - I really think he's just not sure what he can say to change my mind or the others who are scumreading him right now. But that emotion of helplessness in the face of his lynch could come from either scum or town. Both don't wish to die.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #308 (isolation #74) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:20 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 306, KainTepes wrote:
In post 303, Stormcloud wrote:nearly everyone has given at least a partial readlist
i havnet,,
That's why I said nearly. Comm has, I have, I think Parama did, Transcend did. Implosion did, Gamma didn't for obvious reasons. Not sure off the top of my head if Syryana has yet.
I don't think making a list in and of itself is AI.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #310 (isolation #75) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Gamma is v/la until Tuesday. Prior to that his posts were not really relevant to the game. Therefore I wouldn't expect him to have made a list.
Still not sure if he's gonna get replaced due to the long absence or not, his last non-prod dodge post was on Wednesday morning.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #361 (isolation #76) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:29 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Ok it looks like most of you are on a different timezone/sleep schedule than myself. Game is always active at 2-4 am my time and I can't be awake then :(
Parama, do you really think the scumteam is (or contains) myself and implosion? Because right now, saying that implo will flip scum is saying that I will too, and you had me as locktown before.
Even if I'm a little inexperienced, would the scumteam hard buddy on Day 1, guaranteeing that if he gets lynched and flips red I'd be next?

KT, same thing. Do you think it's myself and implosion? If not, why put a vote on him?

I don't think Transcend is 100% scum for sure, but his flip will be a lot more informative than implosion's given what I've told everyone about implo, and right now I'm not seeing an alternative wagon with any level of support.

I think Syryana and Transcend are never scum together, but that's not super helpful day 1.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #362 (isolation #77) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:41 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend, do you think I'm tunnelling on you, same as implosion?
You said you also townread a lot of people in the game, so do my suspicions of you by mostly POE make sense?

I am afraid that I'm tunnelling on you purely because you voted for implosion which is a terrible reason. But I think there are other things pinging me about your behavior too - it's just hard for me to explain them.
I think the giving up type posts are really WIFOMy, like either town or scum could easily do that hoping that their wagon gives up. Probably NAI considering it's Transcend.
Also you still seem to think there's more pressure/votes on you than there actually are. My initial thought was that you knew you were caught, but not only that - you were getting called out by someone that several players are townreading, who's also defending the only other wagon currently. And if you're scum, you know I'm town and you don't think there's an easy way to discredit me or get my attention off of you.
If you're not caught scum, you sure are acting a lot like it.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #364 (isolation #78) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:42 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Syry what do you think about Parama, KT, and CommKnight's inability to get off the implosion wagon?
The only people left who could hammer are myself (not happening), you (doesn't seem to be happening), Tweet (didn't seem keen on it in her last post), and Gamma (nope).
Therefore it's bizarre to me that likely two, possibly more town members are clinging to that wagon like a lifeboat in a storm.

I really just want to discuss some alternatives since Transcend and implosion are so obsessed with each other right now and can't seem to look anywhere else. Even if Transcend is scum there's still probably one, possibly more, out there.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #365 (isolation #79) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:45 am

Post by Stormcloud »

V/La from one hour from now until about 12-14 hours from then. I know that's not a long v/la but I'm usually online so much that I thought I'd let you all know I'm not just lurking, I'm actually gone.
Please don't murder anyone in my absence ;)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #368 (isolation #80) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:47 am

Post by Stormcloud »

So KT, if you think implosion is scum, do you think I'm:

Scumbuddies with him?
Town lying about a scum and playing against my win condition?

Those are really the only options I see. If you think I'm town, then implosion is town too. If you think implosion is scum, you're saying im either scum or blatantly lying town.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #369 (isolation #81) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:53 am

Post by Stormcloud »

This is the weirdest tunnel I've ever seen honestly. CK, KT and Parama all seem to think I'm town that's just lying to them about another player...why exactly?
I mean I guess there's the rare world where I'm scum with implosion and town catches 2 scum for the price of one, but why on earth would scum hard defend their buddy on day 1?
If I was just VT and had no idea about implosion's alignment I have no reason to do this either - I'd probably hammer him happily in that situation. So it follows that I do know something and his entire wagon is just ignoring me entirely.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #373 (isolation #82) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:57 am

Post by Stormcloud »

If a full claim is needed I'll do it.
I just didn't want to spend all of day 1 discussing implosion when we could be discussing other people. I hate to claim this early but it's obvious to scum at this point.

Check the wiki on what roles are normal, that should narrow it down for you.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #374 (isolation #83) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:00 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Parama: I stated like 3 pages ago: If I am town, I'm telling you right now that implosion is 100% town.
The only way he could be scum is if:
I am scum hard defending my buddy.
I am town for some reason hard defending a scum on day 1 with no idea that he is actually scum, which is way against my win condition and I have no logical reason to do that.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #375 (isolation #84) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:18 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Sorry if you guys didn't understand my hints. I was trying to be a little vague and hoping town would pick up on it and maybe scum wouldn't be able to figure it all out. But it looks like everyone still wants implosion's blood so I gotta be more clear.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #377 (isolation #85) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:30 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 265, Stormcloud wrote:Parama man, if you really think I'm locktown, trust me here. Transcend is far more scummy than implosion.
In post 266, Stormcloud wrote:You've seen my comments toward people townreading me in the past - I regard them with suspicion and am paranoid that they are buddying me.
Ask yourself why, if I'm town, I'm not reacting that way toward implosion's comments about me.
In post 272, Stormcloud wrote:Oh I apologize, didn't see your reads list.
Comm if you truly think I'm town, then implosion is not mafia. It's possible both of us are town. It's possible both of us are mafia (from your pov ofc). It is not possible that I'm town and he's mafia.
Plus my more recent posts to KT should hopefully give you a clear idea.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #381 (isolation #86) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:41 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I want to hear a claim, just in case. I highly doubt he's a PR but I can stand to wait until he comes back.
Intent to hammer Transcend
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #382 (isolation #87) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:49 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Just in case this all happens really fast and the mod is here to flip, I want to give final reads.
CK has fallen on my readlist heavily. I think if Transcend does flip red that makes CK look worse imo.
I'd also take a look at Parama and ofc Gamma if/when he returns.
I think Syry is town, I think KT is town.
Gut is telling me Tweet is coasting a little. Don't underestimate her as scum.

I hope I live to see another day!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #385 (isolation #88) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:18 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah that would suck if it was just him
I feel like there might be extenuating circumstances involved for the mod to let him leave for four days after he didn't really even post anything significant in the first 3.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #386 (isolation #89) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:19 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Do you still think CK is just weird town?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #390 (isolation #90) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:35 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah it tends to bite people a lot in games Ive spectated lol
If I may ask, what post were you about to make? Why-implo-is-scum?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #391 (isolation #91) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:36 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Oh no wait you're on the Transcend wagon too nvm
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #393 (isolation #92) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:46 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree it's not AI. It's not like the entire wagon can be scum anyway.
In fact, I think scum might be more likely to back off quickly. But it's definitely not a major tell in either direction.

Sorry just got a little frustrated that no one seemed to be reading all that closely.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #397 (isolation #93) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:51 am

Post by Stormcloud »

KT i'd prefer if you wait until he gets back for any claim/last reads in case he's town.
It's not like deadline is coming up soon or anything.
He's already under intent from me too lol.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #400 (isolation #94) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:55 am

Post by Stormcloud »

:( I didn't want to have to reveal day 1 because one of us will probably get killed tonight - but at least tomorrow we'll have one confirmed town to work with.
Or maybe scum leave us both up to WIFOM, idk.
I was probably already getting killed before I claimed so might as well:

I breadcrumbed in my first two posts if anyone still doesn't believe me. implosion and I are Town Masons.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #401 (isolation #95) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:56 am

Post by Stormcloud »

implosion said he'd also crumb day 1 in case he died, so I could prove I was the other mason. IDK where his crumb is if he's left it yet, but if you believe me you also believe him.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #405 (isolation #96) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:07 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I just didn't want anyone to lolhammer you :P I figured you wouldn't claim until intent but I was nervous.
Gonna be real honest if you weren't my buddy I would have hammered.

Pedit holy shit that's a crazy crumb. I thought I was decent at hiding mine but that's insane.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #408 (isolation #97) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:18 am

Post by Stormcloud »

You could definitely convince me. Not sure about the rest of the people pushing on you.
CK's actually higher on my radar right now but everyone seems to think he's just weird town so I don't think I'll get anywhere with that wagon.
There's not really anyone else I'm considering a lynch on right now. Parama, Tweet, KT and Syry are all just too town for me.
I highly think there's at least one scum in {Transcend, CK, Gamma}.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #410 (isolation #98) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:20 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Well, I said I would take responsibility, and I dont want to push a lynch that I don't end up voting on LOL. It would actually be crazy for scum to not kill me or implo tonight and then try and frame me tomorrow.

VOTE: Transcend

If you're really town, I'm sorry man. It was fun playing with you and you're just the scummiest in a very towny game.

I'd love to hear twilight thoughts on who the scum is if you have any.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #415 (isolation #99) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:24 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Tweet fucking same here man
This game is not gonna be easy.
I give Transcend's flip maybe a 40% chance of being scum, but that's the highest I've got right now. Everyone else is like 5-10%.

Oh yeah it wasn't, Syry unvoted.

Syry if you wanna wait longer I'm cool with that. Or KT can hammer.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #417 (isolation #100) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:25 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend as much as I wanna use that "twilight" post as a towntell, you're an experienced player. I think you knew it wasn't a hammer.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #419 (isolation #101) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:25 am

Post by Stormcloud »

God, I dunno.
UNVOTE:
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #423 (isolation #102) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:28 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Parama I totally agree on the breadcrumb, but does that mean you don't believe we are masons? Or are you just commenting on how bad the crumb was?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #427 (isolation #103) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:29 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Parama if he flips green I'm taking a good long look at you.

VOTE: Transcend
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #428 (isolation #104) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:31 am

Post by Stormcloud »

My crumb is much less ridiculous and you can see how I had to awkwardly phrase things to make it happen. ISO me and look at the first letters of the first two posts.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #430 (isolation #105) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:33 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 7, Stormcloud wrote:
Ma
n I can already tell I'm gonna love this theme!

VOTE: Parama
In post 53, Stormcloud wrote:
So
glad it looks like this game will be active, at least.

N
AI is currently how I'm reading CommKnight's views on claiming/RVS. Scum, even scum unfamiliar with site meta, wouldn't be that transparent about wanting claims on a site that generally encourages claims only at L-1 or with intent to hammer. I think it's more of a culture difference than a scum claim atm.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #434 (isolation #106) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:37 am

Post by Stormcloud »

It definitely wasn't solely that. There's just no one else I suspect more, that has any kind of support for a lynch.
At this point I actually would lynch CK over you but there's no momentum there. I think town wants a flip.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #435 (isolation #107) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:38 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Oh if you mean my comment about Parama, I'm not saying I'm gonna lynch him solely because he wanted you dead. I have other reasons, he's been on the edge for me for a bit.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #438 (isolation #108) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:39 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I mean there's every chance you're town and your entire wagon is. A slim chance, but it's there.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #440 (isolation #109) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:40 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'll keep that in mind for sure because he's been strong town in my mind and has been only getting stronger.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #442 (isolation #110) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:43 am

Post by Stormcloud »

ok team isn't transcend comm like I thought. He wouldn't say that right before his own lynch as comm's scumbuddy I don't think.
Maybe it's all a bunch of wifom.

:( Sorry I'm garbage man, looking to improve.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #445 (isolation #111) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:46 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I kinda think he's the same alignment as you, whatever that is.
That's really just gut though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #447 (isolation #112) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:46 am

Post by Stormcloud »

So if you're town I guess I'm agreeing with you.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #449 (isolation #113) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:47 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm glad you seem less demotivated at least. I was finding it really depressing.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #450 (isolation #114) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I wouldn't vote for Syry today, unfortunately. Too much of a tr.
Tweet, implosion, would you guys?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #452 (isolation #115) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:48 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Can't wait for CK to make his once daily wall and then disappear again /s
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #454 (isolation #116) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:49 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Definitely not sheeping implosion, my reads are entirely independent. Tbh I found his posts super scummy and not very useful to me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #457 (isolation #117) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:51 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I mean I knew they were town sided so I read them, but I formed my own conclusions on why you were scum. I could tell he was tunnelling.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #458 (isolation #118) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:51 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm not voting you because of Comm. My sr on him came much later than my one on you.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #459 (isolation #119) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:52 am

Post by Stormcloud »

But the more I reread and thought about it the more I could see him being a team with you, until you mentioned him at the last second. A scum likely about to flip wouldn't do that to their buddy.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #461 (isolation #120) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:53 am

Post by Stormcloud »

God I wish I wasn't so likely to die tonight. I like this game so much.
@mod, is there a dead thread?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #462 (isolation #121) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:53 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree she is, but have you read her scum game? She's nearly as good there.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #465 (isolation #122) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:54 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Also I feel like I don't know what her reads are right now. I'm gonna ISO and see if that helps me at all.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #466 (isolation #123) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:55 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Why is my judgement bad? Because I pushed on a town? You were doing the same earlier, I don't see why my judgement is so bad. I want to learn but you gotta explain what it is I'm doing wrong.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #469 (isolation #124) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:58 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I mean I'm not the only one who suspects you, if my judgement is bad so is implosion's and any other town on the wagon.
Unless you're referring to my feelings about you and comm as a team. I admit it's just a gut theory.

I honestly think that right now you're either town or scum that thinks they can escape a lynch at the last minute here. If you were scum that thought they were surely getting lynched, you wouldn't be this chatty.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #471 (isolation #125) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:00 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Ok so Tweet hasn't actually given a strong read that I can tell on a fairly quick readthrough. She also hasn't changed her vote since RVS, that might just be playstyle though.
She has asked lots of great questions.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #477 (isolation #126) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:06 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I just don't see a case on Syr who seems to be your only alternative. I understand if you've got a read on her but I'm not seeing it right now.
I don't think we agree on anyone atm. I want to work with you but we can't seem to agree on our reads of anyone.
Except Gamma lol.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #478 (isolation #127) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:07 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Can you put up any kind of case on Syr? I'm not looking for a quote wall, just anything she's done that sticks out to you.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #487 (isolation #128) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:11 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Wait for Gamma or a replacement so we can actually get a read on that slot.
Beg Tweet for some further engagement, her posts have been town but she's barely here and that worries me.
Push on Parama I think. Something there has got me weirded out and I can't figure out what it is. He hasn't been under any pressure yet.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #489 (isolation #129) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:11 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Wait I saw Syr's lack of hammer on implosion as town actually. He had the chance to hammer implo right then and night kill me and he didn't.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #490 (isolation #130) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:11 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I didn't realize he had intent
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #496 (isolation #131) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:13 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Tonight (as in game night) I'll definitely be reading ISOs and giving implosion all my thoughts, as misguided and wrong as they might be. Hopefully it helps town if I die :/
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #499 (isolation #132) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:15 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I do think a Syry flip gives decent info at least. I just can't shake my gut townread. But that might be because he was buddying me a bit earlier I think.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #504 (isolation #133) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:17 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah given the level of activity I'm fine with using our time.
Don't think this lets you off the hook completely Transcend.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #514 (isolation #134) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:30 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend, no matter what your alignment you were dead lying about not being able to do anything about your lynch and not being able to defend yourself. You're doing a hell of a lot right now. Where was this Transcend before?
I'm liking the new one a lot more.
VOTE: Parama
I've got nothing to fear now, might as well vote my gut scumread!
I honestly hope this day goes on nice and long :D
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #517 (isolation #135) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:37 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm in the middle of stuff right now, lots of time to talk but too distracted to properly reread as needed. I would love to dive in further and see if there's more to my read on him tonight though. That's really the reason I'm glad we're not ending the day now, I just felt kinda pressured to do it for some reason :P
Kain's was a strong TR, but is falling now. Maybe because I'm less suspicious of you now and like you said, your wagon was super town but he wasn't on it, and he gave intent but never actually voted (he tried but the mod didn't allow it lol).
His votes have been super opportunistic to the point where he lampshades it constantly.
Hmm, maybe I've got a worse read on Kain than Parama after all.

I wanna hear Tweet's thoughts tbh.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #518 (isolation #136) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:38 am

Post by Stormcloud »

@mod Is Gamma being replaced if he actually doesn't return until Tuesday?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #521 (isolation #137) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:42 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Not on your suggestion
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #524 (isolation #138) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:45 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Nah it's nothing personal.
My paranoia of buddying/sheeping is very strong atm
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #525 (isolation #139) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:45 am

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 523, Transcend wrote:
In post 520, Parama wrote:wanna powerlynch gamma
I don't expect it to be a scum flip based on pure gut

I think the syr wagon is promising

I find this post very interesting. Don't think I'm gonna say why yet.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #526 (isolation #140) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:47 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Also where the hell is CK? I know it's the weekend but I really have a craving for more terrible logic and condescension right now and I just don't think anyone else is gonna satisfy it :(
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #529 (isolation #141) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:52 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I hate to fluffpost but my god I love this playerlist.

Current readslist so this is less of a fluffpost
Town
implosion

Tweet


Syry (slight lean)
KT (slight lean)
Gamma (null)
Transcend (no idea what to think right now)
CK (come back you weirdo I want more of your weirdposting so I can read you better)

Parama (not a super strong read atm)
Scum
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #530 (isolation #142) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:53 am

Post by Stormcloud »

KT do you not have any town reads besides the masons? being willing to vote for everyone is a little odd to me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #532 (isolation #143) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:13 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend would you join a Parama wagon if Syr doesn't work out?
You've been giving light scumreads on him in the past, I just took a quick look.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #536 (isolation #144) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:22 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I'd lynch {Parama, Transcend, Syry*, CK*, Gamma*}. Stealing your notation for deadline lynch only.
I will not vote Tweet Kain implosion today.
I like Syry a lot but I'd prefer a flip there instead of a no lynch.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #539 (isolation #145) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:33 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree on his votes being hard to analyze, I think it's NAI given other games.
I'll take a closer look at both him and Parama later. Call it gut for now.
I liked his interaction with me when he was misunderstanding me and calling me out, and how he backed off. It seemed genuine.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #540 (isolation #146) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:36 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend I want to read you as town but the first quote in your signature keeps bothering me LOL
I know that's a stupid reason but I find it funny.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #543 (isolation #147) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:44 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

That's...a jump for sure.
Kain you're not helping me sort you lol
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #547 (isolation #148) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:48 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

KT so the scum team is exactly 2 people then?
Nice to know!
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #550 (isolation #149) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:50 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

The above was a joke, I know it wasn't actually a slip. Many people have assumed two scum this game and it's the mostly likely setup.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #553 (isolation #150) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:52 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Wasn't trying to get you lynched, was having fun with a joke and also seeing your reaction :)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #555 (isolation #151) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:54 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I would assume it's because Syry is higher on his scumlist. Why do you want him to vote you so much?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #562 (isolation #152) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:57 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

He is voting for Syryana I think.
In post 556, KainTepes wrote:
In post 553, Stormcloud wrote:Wasn't trying to get you lynched, was having fun with a joke and also seeing your reaction :)
yeah i was like HUUUUUHHHH??? but then i realise stormcloud is smart and will not JUMP TO CONCLUSION
I don't love this though. Little bit of a buddy attempt?

I do love you as a player KT, but I'm not gonna be fooled by attempts to compliment me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #572 (isolation #153) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Yeah I think the constant vote switching, even earlier in the game, is just how KT plays. NAI.
I'm still tring him slightly. Probably wouldn't vote there.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #574 (isolation #154) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:02 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Hey Parama, you seemed to think Transcend was very scummy when he made that pretend twilight post earlier. Still have that same read on him?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #580 (isolation #155) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:05 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 421, Parama wrote:no no no transcend's "i'm dead and i was town" post is so fake, he was the same person who tried to reaction test implosion like literally a few hours ago, he knew full well he wasn't hammered and wanted to act like he was
In post 422, Parama wrote:
In post 417, Stormcloud wrote:Transcend as much as I wanna use that "twilight" post as a towntell, you're an experienced player. I think you knew it wasn't a hammer.
YES HE DID KNOW IT'S SO FAKE AAUGH
Parama really wanted Transcend lynched pretty badly but fairly quickly swapped to Syryana. I'd like to hear some reasoning.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #581 (isolation #156) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:06 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 576, Transcend wrote:
In post 562, Stormcloud wrote:He is voting for Syryana I think.
In post 556, KainTepes wrote:
In post 553, Stormcloud wrote:Wasn't trying to get you lynched, was having fun with a joke and also seeing your reaction :)
yeah i was like HUUUUUHHHH??? but then i realise stormcloud is smart and will not JUMP TO CONCLUSION
I don't love this though. Little bit of a buddy attempt?

I do love you as a player KT, but I'm not gonna be fooled by attempts to compliment me.
Nice shoes, Storm.
Sorry, I don't understand what that means. Is that a compliment or an insult?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #583 (isolation #157) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:07 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 581, Stormcloud wrote:
In post 576, Transcend wrote:
In post 562, Stormcloud wrote:He is voting for Syryana I think.
In post 556, KainTepes wrote:
In post 553, Stormcloud wrote:Wasn't trying to get you lynched, was having fun with a joke and also seeing your reaction :)
yeah i was like HUUUUUHHHH??? but then i realise stormcloud is smart and will not JUMP TO CONCLUSION
I don't love this though. Little bit of a buddy attempt?

I do love you as a player KT, but I'm not gonna be fooled by attempts to compliment me.
Nice shoes, Storm.
Sorry, I don't understand what that means. Is that a compliment or an insult?
NVM i'm really dumb lol
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #587 (isolation #158) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:10 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Kain's or Syry's?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #597 (isolation #159) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Tweet how do you feel about a Parama wagon? iirc you also tr Syry along with me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #602 (isolation #160) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:26 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Can either of you explain why that post is scummy?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #605 (isolation #161) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:28 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Syry the more you throw insults the less I like you.
Why are you voting for Parama?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #608 (isolation #162) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I don't like that you suddenly have pretty much my reads. I'm gonna take a look and see if that progression seems natural to me before I worry too much though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #610 (isolation #163) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:33 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Nvm had you confused with someone else. You have always had Transcend and Parama in your lynchpool.
If you are town I'm gonna have to move past my paranoia of buddying and work with you I guess.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #614 (isolation #164) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:36 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Oh I interpreted "not feeling Transcend" as meaning scumreading Transcend.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #615 (isolation #165) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:37 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend I feel like town would likely do that too, join the wagon opposing them, especially if that person was in their scumreads for most of the game.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #618 (isolation #166) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:39 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I don't see him doing at this point as opposed to earlier being scummy - earlier he was on you I think but clearly that wagon evaporated. So he went to his second choice which has the support of the confirmed town.
Nothing about that screams scum to me.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #619 (isolation #167) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:40 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Should I just leave then if I'm so bad? I don't want to horribly mislead town and cause a loss with my bad opinions.
Maybe a replacement would be better, even if they would likely die tonight.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #625 (isolation #168) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:43 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm really sorry if I've messed up the game guys. I just want to know what is so bad about my thoughts and where my logic is wrong and what exactly I should be looking for. I know it's not a newbie game or anything but I'm not gonna learn much from "your opinions are bad".
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #631 (isolation #169) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:48 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend I'm gonna be extremely honest - you're my strongest scumread. You never actually left that position, but I wanted to see what would happen if I took the pressure off.
UNVOTE:

I don't know what to think right now. I feel like everything I have is just gut.

I think I assume all town players will post and look and think like me and that's just not true because of different playstyles.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #632 (isolation #170) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:48 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Kain that's very helpful, thanks
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #634 (isolation #171) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:50 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Yes I agree, but I'm not sure how to break that habit and account for playstyles as I read
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #637 (isolation #172) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:56 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

That influence is a lot stronger than you think is it, I think.
What am I blind to?
Nothing you or anyone has said about Syry has really convinced me, and I think I have been trying to keep an open mind about him.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #638 (isolation #173) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:58 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend I want to trust you really badly but I think all of this is well within your scum range. I think you're a crazy good player and I think all that inability to defend was calculated faking to get me to back off.
Maybe my hat has a bit too much tin foil though.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #644 (isolation #174) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:11 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I agree with KT. I think one is scum.

I just don't know which.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #646 (isolation #175) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:18 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Just reread Syry and yep, nothing there that bothers me. I'm not seeing weird voting patterns at all. He voted for you after you and implosion had your big exchange and someone asked for opinions.
I wish I could see what you're seeing here.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #655 (isolation #176) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:05 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

CK, if no one had suspected implosion or I and neither of us had had large wagons, we wouldnt have claimed today. That way, we both might survive the night and we'd have two confirmed town tomorrow instead of 1.
Yes, it's nice that a protective role can protect us and investigative roles know not to target us, but I do think it's stronger to not claim unless necessary to avoid a lynch. I doubt there's more than one other town PR and likely not something incredibly strong unless scum also have a PR that would counter it.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #657 (isolation #177) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:08 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

The masons are not safe tonight. I'd bet a good amount of money that one of us dies.
The only way I see that not happening is for WIFOM reasons, or if both of us are completely wrong on the scumteam and are tunnelling on the wrong people entirely.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #659 (isolation #178) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:16 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

We are definitely not safer than if we didn't claim at all. The scum don't just kill whoever gets the least votes or is the most townread automatically - they might kill someone who looks like they're catching on. They might kill someone who seems very obviously town. They might kill someone who is dead wrong just for WIFOM.
If implosion and I each got some votes or a small wagon, but never got to L-1, that would be ideal. We wouldn't claim today, and scum would have no clue we were PRs.
I don't think discussing the likely nightkills is productive or matters at all to the game really. I'm not gonna try and read their minds.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #660 (isolation #179) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:18 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

What I really want to talk about is who we want to lynch today. Who gives the most info to town, who looks the scummiest. It sounds like you agree with the Syr wagon the most, since I don't think there's support for a Tweet wagon today (I agree with you about her being potentially dangerous though), and Gamma is gonna be gone for ages so we won't really gain much with that flip.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #662 (isolation #180) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:24 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Transcend I just realized - your alignment has no effect on your judgement of my reads/opinions. As long as I'm scumreading you, you'll always say my opinions are bad/wrong. If you're town, they actually are incorrect and you're telling me the truth. If you're scum, you're lying about my correct reads because to do otherwise would be a scum claim.
Therefore there's no information there - you'd do the exact same thing no matter what you are.
I know this is probably super obvious but I just kinda figured that out.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #665 (isolation #181) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:29 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I don't think I have a way of finding scum yet. I'm just trying my best. Everyone picks up on different things about other players - some wrong and some right. If you're correct I guess I just pick up on the wrong clues a lot.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #666 (isolation #182) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:30 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

Could you maybe lead me through what's bad about Syry again? You said it had to do with her vote timing.
I'll be the first to admit my Parama read isn't strong and if there's something big I'm missing about Syry I'd like to know.
I don't think I ever got a solid answer though, more of a "if you can't see it you're stupid" answer.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #668 (isolation #183) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:33 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

wait does implosion not like you? does anyone really not like you? i didn't think you were really in all that great danger of a mislynch tbh. I dont think town is gonna just blindly sheep the conf town that badly.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #669 (isolation #184) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

I also think that trying to predict the scum based on which mason dies tonight (if one does die) is a bad idea because the scum could easily kill the mason that is wrong, taking their chances defending themselves against the other one. And implosion and I do share a few reads I think anyway so I just think that idea is really weird.

Post 667 is really scummy I think. It's putting the idea in people's minds that if I die they shouldn't lynch KT because that would fall into the scum's plans. And if KT is scum he can make that choice at night too.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #671 (isolation #185) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:59 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

...wow that's not the reaction I was expecting.
I mean I know the feeling of being paranoid and coming up with bizarre conspiracy theories about what might be going on in the game, but those theories don't really help unless they have some evidence behind them.
And nightkill analysis, especially before the nightkill even happens, is just a maze of WIFOM.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #672 (isolation #186) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:01 pm

Post by Stormcloud »

In post 580, Stormcloud wrote:
In post 421, Parama wrote:no no no transcend's "i'm dead and i was town" post is so fake, he was the same person who tried to reaction test implosion like literally a few hours ago, he knew full well he wasn't hammered and wanted to act like he was
In post 422, Parama wrote:
In post 417, Stormcloud wrote:Transcend as much as I wanna use that "twilight" post as a towntell, you're an experienced player. I think you knew it wasn't a hammer.
YES HE DID KNOW IT'S SO FAKE AAUGH
Parama really wanted Transcend lynched pretty badly but fairly quickly swapped to Syryana. I'd like to hear some reasoning.
Parama, this is really the only thing I'm still hung up on about you. Could you explain this switch? You wanted Transcend dead so badly, you even asked someone to hammer without asking for a claim, you agreed that his twilight post was fake - and yet now you're agreeing and working with him to lynch Syryana.
How did that happen?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #677 (isolation #187) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:46 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Thanks for the advice implosion. I was a little stressed due to out of game stuff yesterday too and I think it spilled over a bit. I'll try not to let it happen again.

iirc, you also support Parama lynch over Transcend. Is it for a similar reason to me, or something different?
Do you see why there's support for a Syry lynch at all? I just reread with a fresh mind after waking up and after reading your post and my gut still says town on her. I wouldn't mind her lynch today, there's at least some info gained, but I'm certainly not voting her right this minute.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #678 (isolation #188) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:48 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Spoiler: Transcend's "town" posts
In post 424, Transcend wrote:It was fake

I just don't know how to get town read lol
In post 426, Transcend wrote:Like basically a last resort
In post 432, Transcend wrote:Intent to self hammer to fget out of this hell
In post 433, Transcend wrote:And no storm

Don't lynch someone solely for death tunneling incorrectly

That's a bad thing
In post 436, Transcend wrote:Like my flip isn't terrible but it isn't great
In post 437, Transcend wrote:Anyways ima say this and he's probably gonna hammer me but imo lynch syr tomorrow
In post 439, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Syr

Come at me
In post 441, Transcend wrote:My wagon is actually full of town. MT is the only person not voting me besides Comm who is correctly reading me and someone i trust. Doc her over these garbage masons and let her take you to the promised land.
In post 443, Transcend wrote:No worries

And btw i know you fos Comm, but he's my hardest tr and if I'm wrong you can shit on me in post game.
In post 444, Transcend wrote:So please take that read at face value because I've had that read since d1 and I'm rarely wrong about my p1 trs.
In post 446, Transcend wrote:Oh and I'd totes self hammer as scum but I'm doing last second game solving


These are Transcend's posts in between Parama's "Transcend is so fake pls lynch" and his "I'm up for lynching Syr" where he stopped the Transcend push. Supposedly these felt like genuine town frustration to Parama.

I
could
believe that, but I find the explanation that Parama is scum and saw that the Transcend lynch wasn't happening and decided to switch over as more likely. Somebody said I should go with the motivation I feel is most likely - well, that's what I'm doing. It may be incorrect, but it's what I believe right now and Parama has said nothing that calms my suspicions.
Some of Transcend's posts there also seemed towny to me, but not so much that I completely moved away from him. Also Parama was pushing the actual hammer/lynch way harder than me, I was always willing to give Transcend the benefit of the doubt and explore other options given how early in the day it was.
I know Parama doesn't care what I believe, but I hope this explanation is clear to the rest of town so that those who agree can join me, and those who don't can give dissenting opinions.
VOTE: Parama
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #679 (isolation #189) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:51 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm not gonna continue to discuss optimal times to claim, it's a theory discussion and it's NAI. Take it to the mafia discussion boards.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #682 (isolation #190) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:44 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Okay, fair enough.
I'm still trying to figure out what makes Syry so scummy - Transcend said it has to do with how he didn't defend implosion at all and said he'd be okay with lynching implo if the game wasn't going anywhere. Syry didn't like implo's vote change onto KT and said it degraded the tr he had earlier quite a bit.
Syry's "case", if you can call it that, on Parama is pretty weak and mostly looks like gut, but it's been fairly consistent - he asks me why I'm townreading Parama, then he says he hasn't seen anything Parama couldn't fake yet. This is super early, post 168. He has Parama and Transcend in his lynchpool - I'm not seeing his vote switch as opportunistic.
I think he didn't defend implosion because he would have been okay with lynching him. Not thrilled, but there was no reason for him to start another wagon when someone he has minor suspicions of is at L-1.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #684 (isolation #191) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:11 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Syry as much as I would love to believe that, and it's probably the most straightforward reading, I'm going to take it as NAI because it's really easy to say that after the fact.
But it does make sense and I'm not holding that event against you right now.
Were you nervous that someone else would hammer him at all? Or were the rest of the non-voters all people you trusted to wait?

I really want to hear from some other people that aren't Syry, Parama and Transcend. I don't think the four of us are gonna get anywhere further right now. It's pretty clear who suspects who and I don't see anyone's mind changing without some outside input.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #687 (isolation #192) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:57 am

Post by Stormcloud »

KT if we lynch both and we're wrong on both and you're town and we kill you too, we probably lose lol.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #694 (isolation #193) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:25 am

Post by Stormcloud »

It implies that he thinks there's one scum in {Parama, Syryana} so if we lynch both we're guaranteed one scum.
I don't think that's always true, I think it's very possible that you're both wrong town.
Parama you seemed very certain of Transcend earlier, and now you seem very certain on Syry. Is that how you always scumhunt, without any doubt in your mind that you're correct?
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #695 (isolation #194) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:26 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I'm just finding that interesting because of how doubtful and paranoid I am. I'd love to feel that kind of certainty about my reads.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #697 (isolation #195) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:35 am

Post by Stormcloud »

I don't see why not. Town make incorrect reads all the time, and if they are both town, the scum have no reason to rock the boat since it's a mislynch either way. They can just support either person and it doesn't really matter.
Also, town do and say "scummy" things all the time. Just look at how everyone was jumping on implosion. Nearly everyone in the game at this point has had something they've said called scummy by someone else, but we're not all scum.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #698 (isolation #196) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:36 am

Post by Stormcloud »

That said, I think it's
likely
there's a scum in Parama Syry, just not a 100% locked in probability. You seemed very sure of it.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #701 (isolation #197) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:20 am

Post by Stormcloud »

It's basically kinda like having a replacement because he's gonna have to read through and catch up and he'll have a fresh outside perspective on things.
I'm curious to see what he thinks of the game.
I'm gonna have a real v/la next weekend sadly. I'll be in airports/hotels so it's possible i'll have times with tons of access followed by very little.
I will be back by deadline on Tuesday morning :)
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #704 (isolation #198) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:35 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Lining up lynches is not good.
Not sure if it's something KT suggests regardless of alignment but I'm inclined to think that's pretty scummy.
User avatar
Stormcloud
Stormcloud
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
Stormcloud
Goon
Goon
Posts: 586
Joined: November 28, 2016

Post Post #705 (isolation #199) » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:39 am

Post by Stormcloud »

Alright, then I will try being confident in my reads.
Parama, you're dying today. I've tried to keep an open mind but I don't see myself changing my mind at this point.
Tweet, implo, are you comfortable joining the wagon? If not, what are your concerns?
Locked

Return to “Mayfair Club [Micro Games]”