Micro 676: Bill Wurtz Mafia (Game Over)

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Post Post #10  (isolation #0)  » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:52 pm

Hia Transcend

VOTE: Gemma Emeroald

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Post Post #68  (isolation #1)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:32 pm

@Stormy
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:I'd like to revise my read on CK - I still believe all the claiming/RVS confusion is NAI, but I dislike his confidence that the first person to vote on him must be scum.
There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.
It's really odd to me that after not even one page of discussion, CK says he is never moving his vote unless implosion claims. Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd.
I suppose town should be willing to change their mind, sure. Buuut let's take a look at how CK viewed the game at that point.
In post 16, CommKnight wrote:By unvoting you take away someone from claiming and having real discussion happen for the rest of Day 1. Thus you are looking to stall such discussion. This is evident by your lack of reasoning when unvoting and voting me. You still haven't even said anything. But hey, let's try to look active.

While I would've been happy for a claim from the first one, your behaviour dictates that you are stalling the game. Stalling is motivated only by scum. You like to make sure it's the last possible second before we have someone at L2 so town either is forced to no lynch or lynch an innocent townie.

There is little to no real leads Day Ones. But i am happy enough with my analysis of your behaviour to lock this vote in. It is not leaving without a claim.
CK believes real discussion requires claimed PRs. Therefore, if you purposefully slow down progress on getting a claim, you're stalling discussion. Since there is no town motivation to do this, implosion must be scum. CK believes there are little to no 'real' leads day one so this is a pretty substantial reason to votepark someone.
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:I read through the thread twice assuming I was town!CK and scum!CK and I found the confidence he had really unnerving - perhaps I'm just a less confident player than him, but I don't like the sense of surety at all.
This doesn't feel like genuine reasoning to me. How do you know CK would play more confidently as scum? His confidence does make me feel like he truly believed in his case, though.

@Comm
In post 51, CommKnight wrote:As I said, I'm comfortable with my earlier analysis. Implosion is definitely worth looking into at this point. Although there are people who have yet to contribute and we'll see what happens with them.
Surely you're not refering to your initial analysis and vote on Implosion?
In post 46, Transcend wrote:Comm: even if i got ran up to L-1, i wouldn't claim there. The idea is to give scum as little info as possible because they already know everyone's alignment. So a claim from me isn't gonna help especially if I'm a very important role and being ran up for no reason.
How do you feel about this radical idea?

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Post Post #71  (isolation #2)  » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:49 pm

In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:Your explanation, if I understand correctly, is that CK believes implosion doesn't want a claim and thus is stalling discussion, and therefore implosion is scum. That's pretty believable, except that 4 or 5 different people then explained to CK why the whole early claiming thing is a bad idea, why it makes sense that implosion wouldn't want a claim this early, etc. From there, CK refused to move his vote and said he believes his early vote on implosion was correct, even when presented with the argument that implosion was not trying to deny town discussion at all and that not claiming is accepted amongst the majority of players in the game.
Not exactly. I'm disputing your reasoning for scumreading Comm. I explained that he is/was so confident about his read because he views the game differently from you and I. 1/2 of your reasoning was
In post 56, Stormcloud wrote:Town should be willing to change their mind - not easily or extremely often, but tunneling to the point of never claiming you'll never change your vote unless that person claims a role, on page 1 of the entire game, is a little odd.
However, in a Comm mindset, day one is not "real discussion" and there are "little to no real leads". Claiming must happen for discussion to take place, so there's no reason to vote differently. As long as he has that belief, this does not apply to him.
In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:I didn't like that CK seemed to think he had instantly caught a scum day 1 and stated that he wouldn't move his vote, ever. It just doesn't seem town to me. Call it gut, I guess.
Same goes for this.
In post 69, Stormcloud wrote:-this post reads very slightly like a) attacking comm's attacker and b) giving comm a chance to reevaluate/change his mind so you can townread him when he (perhaps) decides that his analysis was wrong.
Why would Comm backtracking on his stance give me a reason to townread him?

In any case, I'm much more in tune with your original read on him:
In post 53, Stormcloud wrote:NAI is currently how I'm reading CommKnight's views on claiming/RVS.

I think it's more of a culture difference than a scum claim atm.

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Post Post #90  (isolation #3)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:42 am

Agree with Parama on liking Storm's read change, but not quite for the same reason; Stormy's new analysis of Comm and the fact she's still voting him for that reasoning is wrong imo but the vote change itself pings town.

Nevermind the substance of the reads, I don't think there was any scum motivation behind changing a scum-fabricated Comm townread to a scumread that quickly, calling attention to herself in the process. I believe newbscum would simply stick to their guns, and if they had a good enough reason, change their read later.

Curious if Syry saw it this way too.

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Post Post #91  (isolation #4)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:45 am

In post 84, Parama wrote:for the record: i like stormcloud changing his mind on CK, even if i don't agree with it. (it comes down to a theory difference as far as i see, and yes comm is completely wrong but it doesn't feel ill-intentioned)
what i dislike is Transcend trying to paint it as a stretch for an opportunistic vote.
This interests me more than Kain's Comm vote.. what would you say is opportunistic about it?

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Post Post #172  (isolation #5)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:53 pm

Syry, what do you like about implo that places him higher than Gamma, Trans, and Para in your lynchpool? He's been kind of a mix for me.

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Post Post #181  (isolation #6)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:52 pm

In post 180, Parama wrote:the walls are especially demotivating.
This.

So far I've learned from readable posts that Stormcloud is town, and I want to say Syr is likely town for having a similar thought process to mine.
In post 133, KainTepes wrote:
In post 13, KainTepes wrote:japan is an island by the sea nad it is BEAUTIFUL


oh so it looks like your issue is with this post,,

now i see why you think i was being opportunistic,, because i voted RIGHT after implosion vote

it is simple really, the explanation is just pretty dumb,, i was busy watching the history of japan video linked in the first post of the MODERATOR when people were posting and then quoted it,, i wasn't reading the posts at that point,,
I find this explanation pretty believable. @Implo, what do you think?

There's a majority consenus on town!Comm (at least I think), but I'm not as sure about him yet. I'll have to look closer into a couple of his walls when I'm off my phone. For now..

@Comm What information do we gain from, say, a doctor revealing his role? What does this do to spur discussion?

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Post Post #208  (isolation #7)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:05 pm

The first thing I have to say about Comm's walls is:
In post 74, Syryana wrote:Setup spec is worthless atm
Moving on to implosion stuff..
In post 119, CommKnight wrote:Back to Implosion. You view his unvote and vote as a discussion generation. However, if you can move past your projection unto him of your own alignment and motives and see that he did not explain why he added nothing to his unvote and vote. He claims it's to "generate healthy discussion" (after the fact), however, how can a healthy discussion be generated from nothing of substance in the vote? If I had not analyzed that lack of substance as scummy, there would've been no healthy discussion generated at all from it. Objectively speaking, everything seems to conveniently be explained well after the fact. But in that moment, he had not contributed anything. In fact if you isolate his username in the thread, you can see that between his first and second post, he said nothing at all. Then let's say it was his intention for the sake of seeing it from another light. He is still able to stay out of the main spot light unless someone (such as myself) begin picking on him constantly. Because there is nothing from him to arouse more eyes other than those looking closely at the posts themselves.
Okay, let me tell you what interested me (and I'm sure others) during that short RVS period.

First, Implosion voted Transcend randomly at the beginning.
Then, without explaining, he suddenly switched to you, right as you joined the Transcend wagon.

You claim that because he offered no reasoning for the change, it will not help discussion at all. In fact, you also say this is helping him slip into the background because he made no comment. I would argue the opposite.

Yep! It generates discussion precisely because he did not explain it. That means we have to draw our own conclusions as to why he voted you for ourselves.

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Post Post #212  (isolation #8)  » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:12 pm

In post 157, Transcend wrote:im town
If you can convince us of that, those analysis posts you're making might actually become useful :mrgreen:
Stormcloud wrote:Didn't see your latest post when I posted - I agree on the setup spec and on the rest of it - I take it you're also TRing implosion?
No, he's in the middle for me.

I do disagree with Comm's basis for scumreading implo + really want to add Comm to my town block but have yet to see AI posts.

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Post Post #274  (isolation #9)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:58 pm

I think the only person on the implosion wagon that has explained their reasoning (aside from Comm, whom I already said is wrong) is Parama.

@Parama, do you find using meta in general is a scumtell or do you just have a problem with implosion using it in that specific post?

@Transcend, why are you voting for implosion rather than Syr? Along with Gamma, he had the most possible scumteams in your PoE analysis. I see you had a FoS which progressed to a scumread on implosion, but for what reason?

For the Transcend wagon, the only member is implosion. I'll count Stormcloud as a part of it too, though.

Implosion scumreads Trans for meta-based reasons + gut. I can't say much about either of those other than Transcend is trying something new, although I'm not sure that's what Implo is referring to. I don't have a problem with using meta in itself, though.

Stormcloud adamantly believes Implo is town and Transcend scum. Storm is suspecting him for changing his vote to Implo opportunistically. I would like to know his reasoning for the vote as well, but Storm says he did it because others were expressing suspicion on Implo. Neither Kain nor Parama expressed this. Parama was even pushing on Trans at the time.

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Post Post #278  (isolation #10)  » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:35 pm

In post 277, Stormcloud wrote:KT care to explain your thoughts on the past few pages any further?
As if he explained anything at all.

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Post Post #411  (isolation #11)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:22 pm

After rereading, I actually don't foresee Transcend flipping scum. The similarities to his previous game are not making me feel any better about it.

On the other hand, I believe Storm's claim without the crumb.

Today's kind of a bust for me :|

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Post Post #412  (isolation #12)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:22 pm

I don't think that was a hammer Storm

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Post Post #429  (isolation #13)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:33 pm

I think Implo was joking about his crumb.

Godspeed Transcend

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Post Post #537  (isolation #14)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:23 pm

First off, quit building me up as being good Trans.

Secondly, I'm happy we're exploring additional wagons now.

Storm, why was/is Kain a strong TR? He's putting me in a bind; His votes have been horribly opportunistic and he doesn't give reasons for them, but he has a tendency to be erratic in his other completed games from what I can tell. I can't analyze the merits behind his votes due to this.

Readswise I still like Syry and have not budged on Comm being NAI.

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Post Post #564  (isolation #15)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:57 pm

Goodness

Kain, do you think my assessment of you is unfair?

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Post Post #573  (isolation #16)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:01 pm

I wasn't calling on anyone to vote for you, I was curious why Storm read you as town and I gave my personal assessment.

Furhtermore I was less calling you suspicious, more pointing out you have a tendency to act this way so it's not suspicious.

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Post Post #595  (isolation #17)  » Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:16 pm

In post 577, KainTepes wrote:
In post 573, Morning Tweet wrote:I wasn't calling on anyone to vote for you, I was curious why Storm read you as town and I gave my personal assessment.

Furhtermore I was less calling you suspicious, more pointing out you have a tendency to act this way so it's not suspicious.


REALLY?? i doubt thats what you're actually saying..........

In post 537, Morning Tweet wrote:Storm, why was/is Kain a strong TR? He's putting me in a bind; His votes have been horribly opportunistic and he doesn't give reasons for them, but he has a tendency to be erratic in his other completed games from what I can tell. I can't analyze the merits behind his votes due to this.


"why is Kain a strong TR" implies that you are SRing Kain,,
"horribly opportunistic" etc. all shade casting like COMMKNIGHT type
and then sudden backtracking to hint that you are nullreading me,,

I cannot understand the merit of this post
"He's putting me in a bind" implies I have mixed feelings about you. That was my very first sentence.

Asking why Storm townreads you does not imply I scumread you in the slightest.

I think I should be focusing my attention elsewhere. At the very least I can say your vote on me actually had an explanation behind it.

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Post Post #710  (isolation #18)  » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Storm, are there any Parama posts in specific that rub you the wrong way? While I prefer his lynch to Syry I'm having trouble scumreading him logically.

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Post Post #712  (isolation #19)  » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:29 pm

Ok, thanks.
In post 639, Parama wrote:my scumread on transcend weakened because the stuff after i called out transcend faking like he was hammered felt like genuine frustration
it could be scum frustration sure but it gave me townvibes
Have you checked out this post?

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Post Post #773  (isolation #20)  » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:49 pm

Dealing with something right now and not feeling as excited to play.

Noticed Syry is not pleased with me posting once or twice a day, I agree this isn't optimal so I'll replace out as I don't have the time or will to make 100, or even 50 posts a week. The wagon on me hasn't changed this problem, it'll definitely be much better if someone else hops in.

Sorry, bork. You're a pretty cool mod.


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