Mystic Mafia [Endgame]

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: camn

Hello everyone

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: camn

Hello everyone

This also can die a lot

You can die a lot.

Mollie is very exasperated for so early but I think she just gets exasperated easily.

Not sure whether whoever is posting in camntsuki is just being themselves or putting on an act.

VOTE: staeg

[Infinity 324]

So i can die then you explain an actual reason to vote camn then vote staeg.

VOTE: infinity

Camn was a wagon cause I like wagons early

Staeg is srs because he's fluffposting

[Infinity 324]

This infinity wagon seems like a pretty bad wagon

[Infinity 324]

This guy gets it

Talk to me about zito.

[Infinity 324]

Damn, I got double dissed.

[Infinity 324]

I have no idea what's up with the VC

[Infinity 324]

People on me and zito, switch around your votes and see if it changes anything

[Infinity 324]

Yes you voted someone else I think.

Welcome back to Best Wagon though.

Hey you

You didn't talk to me about zito

[Infinity 324]

Yes you voted someone else I think.

Welcome back to Best Wagon though.

Hey you

You didn't talk to me about zito

He's scum.

What else would you like to know.

I would like to know why.

[Infinity 324]

Thanks, very helpful

[Infinity 324]

This guy gets it

Talk to me about zito.

Why don't you talk to me about zito instead.

I heard he's a fine upstanding fellow that helps grannies cross the street.

What've YOU heard?

bro

feed my ego

talk to me about me

Uh ok.

What do you want to discuss about you?

[Infinity 324]

individuals would be wise to not leave their trash scattered about the plane

You're an enigma

[Infinity 324]

V/LA for a day

[Infinity 324]

Weeee I love votes on me.

VOTE: SAD

[Infinity 324]

Not sure about staeg anymore, he might be town scumhunting behind the scenes or just scum fluffposting.

[Infinity 324]

Nahdia wtf is going on

RC is almost definitely town because he likes sum a lot more than town and I doubt he would want to replace out rather than take a 3-day VLA as scum.

Someone engage me on something so I can get involved. Everyone seems to have played with each other before and the interactions are kinda flying over my head.

[Infinity 324]

I do not understand how spyre considers voting the biggest wagon on page 4 scummy.

[Infinity 324]

And then magically naking sad the leader gee golly gosh how could i

Changing the subject

Though I think calling my vote on SAD scummy is shallow thinking, I can sorta see why you say that. The camn vote, not at all.

@Mollie Can you engage me on something? I'm having a little it of a hard time getting into this game and I think some interaction could maybe help me. Then hopefully I'll be able to obvtown for you

[Infinity 324]

@RC My vote on SAD was not naked, I quoted the post I did because it felt fake and that led me to vote SAD. That and a combination of the other stuff he's doing not seeming particularly town.

Nahdia actually feels somewhat genuine to me, not sure why. RC, why do you find dismissiveness scummy?

Camn hydra is annoying me and I want to vote them but they're not really scummy

@spyre You still haven't answered my question about why my camn vote on page 4 was scummy.

[Infinity 324]

Nahdia, who's scum?

[Infinity 324]

What's the point of the first paragraph?

Can you try to explain the dunn thing a bit more?

[Infinity 324]

Answer however you can, I'm trying to get in your head.

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about dunn's whimsical play?

[Infinity 324]

How would you describe it then?

[Infinity 324]

Ok I kind of understand that.

I see a lot of different thoughts going different ways with dunn's posts and a lot of vote hops, which I tend to associate with town. That's what I meant by whimsical. What do you think.

[Infinity 324]

Why unvote there?

[Infinity 324]

Because I think there's a lot of value in wagons early on

[Infinity 324]

Explain staeg and dreal, SAD?

I don't like how you're just repeating your reads over and over but not trying to convince people or anything, and I don't see your thought process for how you got there either.

Spyre dude you are getting incredibly hung up on 2 wagon votes dude

[Infinity 324]

Like perhaps scum hung up actually.

Mollie explain to me why you scumread spyre again?

[Infinity 324]

Well first of all I don't necessarily agree that it's less, and she certainly makes it seem like it's a lot more. Second of all, the amount of convinction doesn't seem to be compatible with "well there's nothing else going on"

Why not ask questions and dig stuff up?

[Infinity 324]

Staeg , why am I scum? What's a possible explanation of the stuff that looks like nonsense at the beginning of your ISO?

[Infinity 324]

What's your read on staeg?

[Infinity 324]

What's your read on staeg?

Um this was to camn, about SAD.

[Infinity 324]

I don't like how you're just repeating your reads over and over but not trying to convince people or anything, and I don't see your thought process for how you got there either.

Hi welcome to my play.

If I'm really in the mood at times when I think I've caught scum I'll usually push that. If you're looking for ~convincing~ people then I'm not about that life. But the people who ask for convincing arguments are usually the shallow players. Because if you really cared, you'll know why I'm voting Zito and why I want pressure there.

If you don't like me "repeating my reads over and over" feel free to ignore them, my reads are dynamic and I usually try to keep tabs on most people through posts that catch my eye.

As for steag and dreamboi, they both read tonally good and I have good gut read on their posts so far.

Ok unfortunately this makes it difficult for me to tell whether you're scumhunting.

UNVOTE:

I'll come back to this later but this answer is ok for now.

[Infinity 324]

Why do you want to wagon spyre?

[Infinity 324]

I'd rather vote for someone actually scummy at this point. Now the question is who that is...

[Infinity 324]

Why did you assume I was talking about you

[Infinity 324]

Spyre dude you are getting incredibly hung up on 2 wagon votes dude

Also.. this is really a good reason to see how he does with, like, 6 votes.
WAGON HO, MY BRETHREN!

My favorite part of this is the sinple fact it went woosh so high over head I'm pretty sure the iss got a shockwave.

And and and infinity didnt bother to correct it

But go for it fire away cause of this is meta you know better than to think i give two duck farts about votes on me.

People not listening to me is different but i swear that ship hath sailed

Oh. I thought camn was talking about me with the original statement, and the second thing confused me

[Infinity 324]

Why did you assume I was talking about you

@dunn

[Infinity 324]

Why did you assume I was talking about you

@dunn

I didn't assume anything.

I answered an open-ended question with my honest opinion.

And I wondered why you felt the need

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

but I have a question; why aren't talking more to dunn? you have more experience with him than you do me so i am wondering why you are not engaging him more. when you do it looks like 2 pple who run into each other in the grocery store and act like you do not know each other. your interactions with each other look strangled and awkward and I don't understand why. I also want to believe that the grocery store tell is real altho it hasn't worked out so far.

Because dunn isn't the easiest person to interact with. It's not that we get into big arguments or anything, but is playstyle doesn't lend itself to cooperation or discussion very well. So usually I just try to avoid him.

[Infinity 324]

well I don't know what to tell you except mebbe look at your wagon and tell me what you see? that wld help every1 get more of a read on you I think cos at this point you need to be doing something or you will get dl lynched.

Spyrex I guess I'm leaning scum on. I'm not seeing his scumhunting shine through very well, and he seems to get hung up on small things quite a bit like my 2 wagon hops and this nacho thing

Staeg I have to look into more. At first I thought he was fluffposting but then he stopped and there could've been some plan to all of it. I asked him about the seeming fluff early on and I'm waiting for an answer.

Zito I'm leaning town on, I see what SAD is saying about the WKing but that felt town-awkward as opposed to scum-awkward. I've liked his tone so far.

As for why and where they hopped on my wagon...uh...I forget lol. If it's important I'll look back but nothing stood out to the me first time.

[Infinity 324]

while infinity looks good in these exchanges I am also wondering why he is not following up with any of this. also I am still not understanding the vote hop off of spyrella when he was pressure to do so.

I thought I followed up on everything, it's possible as a result of being disengaged I missed something. But I got what I needed to out of the nahdia discussion.

Also I didn't unvote spyre, I unvoted SAD.

[Infinity 324]

Not sure how to interpret that, dunn.

You just kind of dropped that I was a reasonable lynch - why?

I meant liked as in liked as town, not liked to lynch.

OK, this makes me feel better... unless you were confused and retracted that later

This rubs me the wrong way...does it make you feel better or not? Do you think he retracted it or not?

[Infinity 324]

what I don't like is that you don't seem top care where it goes.

It's day 1, so you're right, I don't/

I like this actually

[Infinity 324]

wagons only have value EVER (early, late, noon) if they have meaning in the votes cast on them
empty vote is empty and is counterproductive / doesn't help anything

I disagree

But I like the tone in the rest of this post. I guess it's a mix of the confidence and the all-over-the-place thought process.

[Infinity 324]

no, actually that is how you play mafia

fucking arrogance with so many of you like "I KNOW WHO SCUM IS BECAUSE DUHHDUHHH" - no, you fucking don't, unless you're scum or had a N0 cop result that you know isn't a lie

interact, discuss things, form reads that grow

presuming to discover them with such confidence is foolish and unnecessary (and hurtful to the cause)

you don't solve the game D1

I know, you read this and are like "well duh of course"

well then fucking play like it

worry less about votes and more about finding scum

I agree completely, I also think you should follow your own advice.

[Infinity 324]

a specific mindset you seem to be putting forward which is one I don't think you can fake. I mean, sure you could write the words, but I don't honestly believe you would KNOW to fake it.

Yeah this solidifies my townread on nahdia

[Infinity 324]

mollie's read on me is nonsensical. mollie is making the mistake of equating an attitude they don't respond to well with an attitude that's indicative of scum.

That just shows she's playing emotionally, which is usual for her

[Infinity 324]

Because I had the same feeling

[Infinity 324]

is this game weird for anyone else? It feels like it's just flying in all directions.

Yes very much so.

[Infinity 324]

Camn misreading his post and him not correcting is the biggest thing in that exchange

More getting hung up on dumb stuff

Like if I was scum and noticed I wouldn't have corrected it

[Infinity 324]

And the nacho thing too. Is this something you get criticized for often spyre?

[Infinity 324]

Its more everyone leaping up his tube for flimsy ass reasons.

Nacho himself is the conch. Its the fact so many went all lord of the.flies over him over such a banana reason that is the suspect.

This is so

so

so

so

scummy.

Literally like a couple even mentioned anything like a soft attack against nacho. Like I'm prob the person who's scumreading him the hardest, and even THAT isn't that hard.

Talk about hardcore whiteknighting.

I think you're both overreacting, 2 posts can't really be hardcore WKing but at the same time I def wouldn't say everyone was attacking nacho

[Infinity 324]

So dream and i just randomly decided to have this conversation? And camn talking about a bropass just was for funsies?

Okay me and dream scumread him.

Camnhydra at BEST nullreads him, seeing as their question was if you're townreading them or not and they have him in their bs townbloc thing.

So 2 people.

2

people

is "everyone" and "so many".

How about mollie

[Infinity 324]

I don't like the get offffffff me interrrrractions with Nahdia fffffrrrrrom Dunn, and I don't like the "get these votes off now" as substitutions forrrrr rrrrreal rrrrreactions to votes on him.

Feel this, but there's a possibility it's just dunn being dunn.

[Infinity 324]

scummy

oh right, no wonder.

You...forgot you thought I was scummy and then remembered?

ping

[Infinity 324]

Ah right, that. What? There's some RVS in there, then there's the thing I responded to cupcake about already, then there's me targeting laser-sights on dunn, and then there's commentary on all the noteworthy things I could spot.
Furthermore, what plan were you thinking was even possible in a "fluffpost->dis

Spoiler: nonsense

practitioners of the Turtle Path

Intriguing.

Not intriguing at all, actually.

Get these votes off of me

Plural?

The camn wagon seems rather boring. On top of that, a lot of people sure are talking about the thing you're not supposed to talk about.

47-49 is burnworthy stuff

This stuff seemed like nonsense to me. It may not have been nonsense to you, so that's what I meant by the plan I guess. Your play in general just confuses me, I think it would help if you tried explaining a few reads you have. Including the one on me.

[Infinity 324]

Man this fucking game

If anyone is on I'd like to talk about something, anything

[Infinity 324]

Non-townreads

Staeg
SpyreX

RedCoyote
pirate mollie

camntsuki (camn + Katsuki)

drealmerz7

Ser Arthur Dayne

Nahdia

Papa Zito

Kagami
Dunnstral
Nachomamma8

[Infinity 324]

hi infinity

Hi nahdia, what's your read on spyre

[Infinity 324]

........................are you a creature alt?

No lol but I'm on my phone and that's the easiest way to do it

[Infinity 324]

Hi how's it going

Do you still think I'm scum, if so why, if not who is

[Infinity 324]

hi infinity

Hi nahdia, what's your read on spyre

off the top of my head, leaning town, though i could stand to give his ISO a once-over i guess.

........................are you a creature alt?

No lol but I'm on my phone and that's the easiest way to do it

just seems so weird and unintuitive but i guess that makes sense

Ok, why do you think dunn is town? I always have a difficult time reading him but I'm leaning scum atm

[Infinity 324]

And the nacho thing too. Is this something you get criticized for often spyre?

Critized for what?
Note, once again, I've never said nacho is rock hard town. I've said the reasons are suspect.

So criticized for not using the most basic mouthwords and filling in the connect the dots sure

Criticized for focusing on small things

Hi how's it going

Do you still think I'm scum, if so why, if not who is

Not particularly, no. Anticipating your follow-up question: I tried to get SpyreX to explain the issue but he doesn't really seem able to do so. I'm here at his request but the lack of push makes me sadface.

I don't like anything the hydra has done and I'm curious to see what mollie is up to.

Ok, I'm pretty sure this is town!mollie though.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, I think scum!dunn can give that impression too though, if not quite as much.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: spyre

[Infinity 324]

Are you scumreading mollie katsuki?

[Infinity 324]

What real definitive statements have been.made?

Dud you miss the townreads and strong townreads?

[Infinity 324]

Non-townreads

Staeg
SpyreX

RedCoyote
pirate mollie

camntsuki (camn + Katsuki)

drealmerz7

Ser Arthur Dayne

Nahdia

Papa Zito

Kagami
Dunnstral
Nachomamma8

Is that what you're talking about?

Wow how could i have been so oblivious

Sigh

Not just that but sure that's a definitive statement

[Infinity 324]

Lol camntsuki he's talking about me

But that's a crazy overreaction given that no one would fake missing something that obvious as scum

[Infinity 324]

What I'm saying is that I thought it was pretty obvious I was his top scumread and I can see why he thought that but his reaction doesn't make sense even for that

[Infinity 324]

Staeg, can you give a couple reads with explanations?

[Infinity 324]

Aaaaaa so many pages and so much shit going on that I completely disagree with

My lynch list remains the same except plus zito and minus camn. Zito did a classic scum thing by "suddenly realizing" a top wagon is scummy and then making a case, it's one of my favorite scum tactics

Camn, well, they feel like they're trying to move the game forward and I like the whimsical attitude, though that part may be a mistake to townread them for. For example I like 784 and I can't explain why. So in other words gut town.

But can we please just lynch someone? Idk who scum is, everyone who thinks they know who scum is doesn't know who scum is. we have 4 days left, let's just compromise and get it over with

[Infinity 324]

Can you not

[Infinity 324]

Catching up now, I am not feeling it this game

[Infinity 324]

In the meantime would love it if people addressed stuff specifically at me, mollie for example you said you wanted to hear my thoughts more in-depth so it'd be nice if you could give me something specific.

[Infinity 324]

Wait it fits into the plan of Nahdia whiteknighting dreamz so she gains credit when dreamz flips town okay cool beans.

Either way dreamz is town.

o_O

If you trying to fit events into narratives as town, youre doing something wrong.

[Infinity 324]

i know how it is. i experience it as well. i too wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat, paralyzed with dread, one thought echoing through my clouded mind;

"shit maybe sad is town."

do what u gotta do, hombre.

This is very genuine and also a very good way of conveying the point, I love it

[Infinity 324]

nacho is saying let's not lynch camn cause itll... hurt feelings?

I hate it and find it somewhat scum indicative when someone says something deep and nuanced and someone else reduces it down to something so simplistic. Doesn't even matter nacho's alignment.

[Infinity 324]

Speaking of which, nacho could be town or scum and d1 from what I've seen/heard I don't think it's unusual not to be able to tell d1.

From the position that I'm in, perhaps the best thing I can do is to tell people to take a deep breath and take a step back. It's d1, reads aren't very reliable, neither anyone else's nor your own. I know people like spyre are going to dismiss me because I'm trying to be a "scum mediator" or whatever, but at least take a second to think about what I'm saying. Games are so much more enjoyable and often you'll have more success if you just keep things in perspective. If you need to stop talking to someone for a while, do so, but don't let your emotions take control of you and make the game worse for yourself and everyone else.

[Infinity 324]

Well

what I mean is that I don't think scum would be able to fake that tone

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

I disagree

[Infinity 324]

So you're saying you know with absolute certainty that scum!nahdia would be able to fake that particular tone in that particular circumstance, and that because I don't agree with you, that makes me more likely to be scum?

I don't believe you're scumhunting

[Infinity 324]

You're the one who doesn't seem to be scumhunting. Want to try your hand at it?

If you haven't noticed, we're short on time.

I'm trying, but honestly I'm not really in a rush. I don't want to fall into the trap of believing I can solve the game on d1.

...how about you

[Infinity 324]

Non-townreads

Staeg
SpyreX

RedCoyote
pirate mollie

camntsuki (camn + Katsuki)

drealmerz7

Ser Arthur Dayne

Nahdia

Papa Zito

Kagami
Dunnstral
Nachomamma8

My lynch list remains the same except plus zito and minus camn

Hasn't changed since

[Infinity 324]

Ugh infinity's posting is so bad but I still don't get a scumvibe from them just an arragont person who thinks he's a mafia legend trying to dictate how people should play while being an utter failure at the game.

What the fuck? I definitely don't consider myself a mafia legend, and I wasn't trying to dictate anything to anyone. If you're talking about 932, I was just trying to give advice. There wasn't an "I'm so much better than you" component to that, it's how I think some people could be improving their play.

Well

what I mean is that I don't think scum would be able to fake that tone

Faking tone is literally the one thing I take pride in when it comes to mafia.

Good to know.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I understand your frustration mollie, and I agree it might be better if we didn't try to sync our reads this game.

there is not soul in nacho's posts. none nada zero.

Also wanted to say that I definitely agree with this but not sure it's alignment indicative in this case? I haven't played much with nacho though.

[Infinity 324]

I wanna see how nacho responds to mollie

Hesitant to lynch someone d1 who could be a very good town player, but I'd probably still do it over most of my townreads

[Infinity 324]

I agree

[Infinity 324]

the ffffact that people arrrrre buying Drrrrrealmerrr's "you will be rrrrreleased" garrrrbage is a shame.

Why are you treating it like a serious reason?

[Infinity 324]

I'm not convinced either way

[Infinity 324]

well he's your buddy you have to say that

Damn, you got me.

[Infinity 324]

Where are the VCs holy crap

[Infinity 324]

Ok thanks.

VOTE: zito

[Infinity 324]

It's ok fate, I think your vote count is more accurate

[Infinity 324]

Nvm, SAD's is accurate lol

[Infinity 324]

this game has too many scummy people in it and this is coming from someone who is used to SRing 90% of the playerlist through D1

@spyr nahdia and RC - check and see if you are comfortable to join on nacho at this point?

I can do camntsuki (still, that's never changed) at this point too, but have a stronger read on nacho (made stronger because of the familiarity where camntsuki is someones I've never played with before scumread)

How about zito

[Infinity 324]

when's the last time anyone here played a completed game with nacho?

I finished a game with him and kagami recently, he was scum and his team was fucked but he survived for a surprisingly long time despite the amount of scumreads on him. He wasn't super invested in the game all the time though.

[Infinity 324]

He's less invested here in general from what I can remember, and that's basically all I can compare. If he got more into the game, I could compare tone and stuff like that but he doesn't really...have a tone this game. That does make him more likely to be scum, but not much more.

[Infinity 324]

-snip-

Thank you.

[Infinity 324]

Uhh

Isn't it tomorrow?

[Infinity 324]

Oh yeah true

[Infinity 324]

I think Kagami is town

[Infinity 324]

I think role madness means the game is more likely to be multiball but doesn't necessarily mean multiball

[Infinity 324]

Why is zito still alive

I need to look through some stuff

[Infinity 324]

What

[Infinity 324]

Staeg
SpyreX

RedCoyote
pirate mollie
camntsuki (camn + Katsuki)
drealmerz7
Nahdia

Papa Zito (?)

Kagami

Dunnstral
Nachomamma8

Not a bad amount of narrowing here.

Dunn's weird theory about nacho and the orb crumbs actually bumps him up to null. It doesn't seem like something scum!dunn would bother with. @dunn: You didn't answer how the crumb makes dreal town

Staeg and spyrex I'll need to ISO again. I remember some frustration from spyre so I want to look into it instead of just skimming it and see if I think it was genuine. Staeg I barely remember at all.

Nacho still could easily be town or scum but gut says slightly more likely to be scum.

My read on zito obviously depends on what he claims...lynchproof seems town or 3p though.

Dreal and camn would be my weakest townreads.

[Infinity 324]

Since most of d1

And what if scum!dreal doesn't have the orb but knows about it and is crumbing it to throw people off or to look town?

[Infinity 324]

[quote="In post 1136, pirate mollie"]infinity why are you not reading my posts[/quote

I'm reading your posts mollie. I'm just trying to get more into this game and I can't address everything.

If you want me to go through your nacho case I will but it seems to me that there's a lot of meta stuff which is not really convincing to me as I haven't seen it for myself.

[Infinity 324]

Ok I like that idea

[Infinity 324]

Un

Official Vote Count

Nachomamma8

(2): Dunnstral, pirate mollie

camntsuki

(1): Spyre

drealmerz7

(1): Nacho

Infinity 324

(2): camntsuki, Staeg

Not Voting

(0): dreal, nahdia, zito, Inf, kagami

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

There

[Infinity 324]

Un

Official Vote Count

Nachomamma8

(2): Dunnstral, pirate mollie

camntsuki

(1): Spyre

drealmerz7

(1): Nacho

Infinity 324

(2): camntsuki, Staeg

Not Voting

(0): dreal, nahdia, zito, Inf, kagami

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

There

Ok you're welcome

[Infinity 324]

I ALREADY DID IT NOW YOURE MAKING ME LOOK BAD

Wow so ungrateful

[Infinity 324]

More like a...vote don't

...since it was VD, get it?

[Infinity 324]

I wanna check what nacho's tone was in his response to pressure in oots, but it's annoying that his PR fucks with the tone

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: staeg

Interesting, explain?

[Infinity 324]

@staeg I don't think you ever explained your scumread on me. Can you do so?

[Infinity 324]

In other news, I didn't particularly like zito's incredisarcasm reaction to people not being thrilled by his camn case and jump - out of proportion. His only subsequent posts are taunts replying to perhaps the only objectively good post in the entire thread. Brrr.

This is the only thing I really like from staeg's posts. He

does

stuff, and some of it is original, but well within the realm of what even disengaged scum could do. So...slight lean scum I suppose.

VOTE: nacho where the wagon is for now. Aside from being likely scum, I think we could get some good reactions by pressuring nacho.

[Infinity 324]

Nornally I don't vote for people without specific things I can point to to say they're scummy.

[Infinity 324]

I can't point to specific things, so I voted the scumread who I though would give the best reactions.

[Infinity 324]

I think that's pretty reasonable for this game state, at least for where I am.

[Infinity 324]

Because I've seen nacho's reactions to pressure before, they're kind of unique and other people like mollie have a lot of meta with him so I think we'll be able to get a solid read on him

[Infinity 324]

Also cause there's already a wagon on him

[Infinity 324]

Well, it's kinda difficult to have extended interaction with people when my head isn't fully in the game, but from now on you should expect me to follow up more often.

But uh, was there a particular reason you ignored me or...? I mean, this is a hell of an accusation coming from the guys who's been voting me for a large part of the game but barely tried to interact with me or give any reasons to lynch me until now.

I don't see where you got that I had no stances at the start of d2. Just because I didn't post them again doesn't mean they disappeared...

The point of saying I needed to look into stuff was that I needed to ISO people in my scumpool before deciding where to vote. I find it often helps to let people know where I am and it also pre-empts questions like "who's scum". I can't imagine you've never seen town say things like that before.

[Infinity 324]

I didn't really have anything else to add to my reads from yesterday without looking into my scumpool more. Don't know what else you expected.

I don't like zito's dodge but it's still hard for me to imagine a scum lynchproof.

[Infinity 324]

I'm fine with waiting for zito but kagami is pretty convincing

[Infinity 324]

^

[Infinity 324]

Ok zito is probably town

[Infinity 324]

Zito town water wet

What?

[Infinity 324]

Zito town water wet

What?

Have you read Spyrex's previous posts on the Zito topic?

True but the last post he made about zito expressed paranoia on him

[Infinity 324]

Zito town water wet
Lynch infinity 2017

yeah I retract my townread on zito.

fate has been messing up the vc the entire game so I am unsure as to why kagami is sus of it and why infinity is echoing it.

I srsly doubt that in a blaze of glory that fate will suddenly give vc's that are exactly right.

That wasn't really a major concern, I just wanted zito to answer the question

I think zito is town

And are you sure your first sentence is right?

[Infinity 324]

you handwaved that away and said that was even more reason for dunn to nk sad.

I quote where you threw shade on dunn and handwaved it away and insisted that you were not scumreading dunn.

Would like kagami to address these

[Infinity 324]

infinity has dropped down to unsure cos I do not in any way shape or form like him saying, "zito's prod dodge" cos that clearly was not what was happening. and I am not buying a second day of "hur dur I dunno". there is plenty here that his opinions shld be more formed than what he is letting on.

Fair on both counts, although I still would've expected zito to say something related to what happened d1 on his very first post. Was never huge point though.

Would like to hear your orb theory.

[Infinity 324]

Somehow I'm not accountable for my vote just because I don't have a 100% super solid tunnel scumread and because there's a wagon where I voted? Really?

[Infinity 324]

Really dislike dreal popping in and voting me before while apparently he's supposed to be catching up. I have no idea what's going on with dunn's vote, and that's a bad thing.

I really wanna just call spyre scum here, but there's something about the way he's been playing makes it hard. Maybe that he doesn't care about making enemies.

[Infinity 324]

Yep
Thanks for playing

Pedit woah that was almost a solid opinion better slide away from.that

One of my doubts about you being town is that it's very difficult for me to imagine you believe this narrative that I don't have any solid opinions just because I don't tunnel the shit out of people like you do. Is "town" not a solid opinion? Is "lean scum" not a solid opinion? Why do you get to use your shitty definition of "solid opinion" to create nonsense expectations of my play and then push a wagon on me when I don't meet them?

If you're town, you're a terrible mafia player. There's a solid opinion for you.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:

Drealmerz did a scummy thing

Yes, he in fact did.

Given that, who's scum?

[Infinity 324]

There are 2 steps to scumhunting. One is to find the scum, the second is to push their lynch. I want to make sure I do the first part well before rushing into the second part.

[Infinity 324]

/yawn.

You are better than this.

Actually you know what?

You're right. I am better than this.

fate: replace me

Stay classy mafiascum

...ok then

[Infinity 324]

it signals that there is no better fuel to throw into the engine.

You really think the best scum!dunn could come up with to justify a scumread on someone is

that

?

I feel like this argument is very rarely accurate.

[Infinity 324]

I feel like scum!dunn would only say that to look like weird town and to be the first one

[Infinity 324]

Staeg. Stop ignoring me.

[Infinity 324]

I'll ISO spyre tonight sometime

[Infinity 324]

The antelope has retreated into the tall grass...

[Infinity 324]

The best? idk man. Why does it have to be the best?

Because if it wasn't the best then he wouldn't have had to use it...normally scum like to make argument that look good.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but intentionally trying to look like weird town is not such a likely strategy to think of imo. I've seen it done effectively before, but it's kinda rare

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: desperado

[Infinity 324]

Are you scum?

[Infinity 324]

I'll wait for him to catch up before I answer that.

Why does scum!me vote desperado when he replaces in?

[Infinity 324]

What do people think about camn calling every one of my posts scum

[Infinity 324]

Staeg I don't exactly see where you're going with this

[Infinity 324]

Why does scum!me vote desperado when he replaces in?

let's say that slot is town.
scum-you wants to re-invigorate the previous Spyrex hate into a flashwagon on a replacement for the mislynch.
more importantly, scum-you knew you didn't have the juice to hit that slot when Spyrex was is in, now you have an opportunity.

Camn, confirmation bias is a powerful thing

But think

Is scum me really going to start a wagon, under pressure, with a naked vote?

[Infinity 324]

And that means I can push a wagon with it?

Why aren't you talking about the actual issue?

[Infinity 324]

Which is...

My vote on you

Can you stop using "would scum x do this" arguments

I'm not really trying to argue anything. I'm trying to see whether camn his actually trying to figure me out or instead is just scumtunneling.

[Infinity 324]

It's the original thing I discussed with camn

But uh, I wanna hear catchup thoughts.

[Infinity 324]

Ok sure.

I'd like reads on camn, staeg, and dunn with explanations

[Infinity 324]

I don't give a shit what you think is and is not pro-town, I'm waiting for the catchup before I answer the question.

[Infinity 324]

Can you give a sentence about why the back-and-forth with spyre means camn is town?

Do you think dunn's argument on nacho has merit or do you think he's just weird town?

What do you think about my vote on you?

[Infinity 324]

So you call me out for my vote on desp, I try to figure out why you think it's scummy, and then you claim I'm looking for townpoints?

lol

[Infinity 324]

Their opening on Spyrex was town, the early call for a town bloc to lynch Spyrex was town, the hydra dissonance on Spyrex was town...I can keep going but I think you get the picture.

I see where you're getting the hydra dissonance thing, but the other 2 I think could easily be done by scum.

No, but I also don't think he's "weird town" and I don't understand why these are my only two options for this question.

Normally when someone makes a big tinfoil case they're considered weird but w/e

Anyway I like your calmness but I don't like so much your lack of initiative. I mean it's true that during the beginning of the game I disengaged and could've used some specific questions, but catchups should give you a lot of fuel for specifics though no?

UNVOTE:

The vote was to just to see how desp reacted and to give my questioning a little more weight

[Infinity 324]

Can we do this now?

VOTE: staeg

[Infinity 324]

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

Kagami, can you work with me here and explain a little more? Not exactly sure what you mean by reactionary, I do feel like most of my questions are leading somewhere even if they are all over the place. And no I'm not really lost anymore, though I'm still figuring stuff out.

Would still like to see you respond to 1230 although I'm feeling better about you nonetheless

I wanna know what you think of staeg. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that slot. I just don't see a town voice between his words.

I also wanna talk more about dreal. I still like his tone but the procrastination is starting to worry me.

PEdit: well ok

[Infinity 324]

Dreal, I don't really understand why you're freaking out so much. Whether dunn is town who thought you softed or scum who pretended to think you softed why is it such a big deal

now

? And how can you tell the difference?

[Infinity 324]

I agree with the general consensus that Infinity is pretty likely to flip scummy. I still think he got more flack than deserved for his initial voting pattern, but that doesn't change that he has been asking questions that are extremely reactionary and I don't get a town line of thought that should be underlying them. I think being "lost" is no longer a good excuse, since there are at this point so many things that he could have grappled on to. The only thing that makes me not super optimistic about that lynch is that I'm not really crazy about anyone advocating it.

Kagami, can you work with me here and explain a little more? Not exactly sure what you mean by reactionary, I do feel like most of my questions are leading somewhere even if they are all over the place. And no I'm not really lost anymore, though I'm still figuring stuff out.

Would still like to see you respond to 1230 although I'm feeling better about you nonetheless

I wanna know what you think of staeg. The more I think about it, the more I dislike that slot. I just don't see a town voice between his words.

I also wanna talk more about dreal. I still like his tone but the procrastination is starting to worry me.

PEdit: well ok

Hey. Kagami.

[Infinity 324]

No, you didn't kagami

[Infinity 324]

You're probably right mollie, I'm just a sucker for genuine-looking tone.

[Infinity 324]

Town: Kagami, mollie, zito, nahdia
Lean town: desp, RC
Null: dunn, camn
Lean scum: dreal, nacho
Scum: staeg

I ISO'd spyre, and I think I like that slot more. He didn't seem to have an agenda.

Staeg lynch. What do you guys say.

[Infinity 324]

Dreal, I don't really understand why you're freaking out so much. Whether dunn is town who thought you softed or scum who pretended to think you softed why is it such a big deal

now

? And how can you tell the difference?

I wouldn't say I'm freaking out. I was pissed when it started at the beginning of the game and I'm still perturbed by it is all. I hate when games go like this I'd have preferred orb stuff stayed hush until later I just think it gives scum an advantage and I think that is what scum would want and that points to dunn.

Well ok, I do feel like it's very much in dunn's personality to do that kind of thing though.

[Infinity 324]

I would townread the repeated "you have to believe me" statements, but it's just out of place in a catchup like that. It looks like scum trying to play to our emotional sides and look like frazzled town.

[Infinity 324]

if you're town what you could be 'feeling' is how the post was constructed (it wasn't all stream-of-thought, I jumped around and did parts of it at different times/redid parts of it a couple times)

Well I can tell that much. But your post seems to be low in analysis and high in emotion, and I still don't see where the emotion is coming from from a town perspective.

What do you think about zito's claim?

[Infinity 324]

if you're town what you could be 'feeling' is how the post was constructed (it wasn't all stream-of-thought, I jumped around and did parts of it at different times/redid parts of it a couple times)

Well I can tell that much. But your post seems to be low in analysis and high in emotion, and I still don't see where the emotion is coming from from a town perspective.

What do you think about zito's claim?

yes it wasn't much of an analysis post I didn't claim it to be so? yes, high in emotion, because I was drawn into the orb shit and didn't want to be, that should be clear - where is the emotion coming from from a scum perspective then?

I get not wanting to be drawn into the orb thing, but you could've said that so much earlier and so much simpler. I don't see the town motivation for making such a big long post about that, and I was expecting more analysis for the catchup after such a long wait.

Sorry dude

VOTE: dreal

Hey look another wagon hop, must be scum

[Infinity 324]

I FUCKING DID, SCUM

You didn't talk about the orb stuff until just now.

[Infinity 324]

Yes

[Infinity 324]

Dunn, why is dreal town for you?

Thinking it over again, I don't think scum!dunn would have motivation to point out all the softs since then a dreal kill draws attention to him. I don't see how dunn could've used what he was doing to rolefish.

[Infinity 324]

Dunn hasn't been a scumread of mine since the beginning of today

[Infinity 324]

No I don't scumread you I just gave reasons why im starting to townread you...

Also "just a feeling" is not going to be enough.

[Infinity 324]

Speaking of which dunn, I'd be willing to join you on staeg but it doesn't seem to have enough support.

[Infinity 324]

Speaking of which dunn, I'd be willing to join you on staeg but it doesn't seem to have enough support.

Why are you interested in Staeg?

Because I don't like his reasons for voting me, I don't like a lot of the thing he's been focused on, and his posts are kind of empty. Town posting usually has more of a voice.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, tonight.

[Infinity 324]

Do we have any real objections to the Infinity lynch?

I'm going to actual vote him, and we should probably designate a hammerer.

I have an objection to the infinity lynch, and I tried to engage with you about it. Please respond.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, the mollie thing wasn't the main issue though. I wanted you to elaborate on your scumread on me, and your thoughts on staeg. (1412)

[Infinity 324]

Ok about staeg.

1. Which of his reasons do you take issue with and why

1195
I took issue with him criticizing me for not engaging with people in a deep enough way when he didn't engage with me much at all despite me being one of his top scumreads. Not only that, his engagements with people don't seem hugely substantial to me either--like he asks questions and sometimes follows up, but mainly he's just commenting on stuff in his own world. Somewhat like me, to be honest.

And the issues with 1119 seemed very shallow and nitpicky. Overall this makes me think he put off explaining his reasons for scumreading me because...they weren't really good ones.

2. What things are he focused on and why don't you like them

Well there's the stuff I mentioned in 534 where he fluffed early on, and he seems to be making a habit of making bigger issues out of smaller issues. Like I'm not really seeing town coming into the thread and immediately jumping to the things staeg jumps to, it's more likely he's just trying to find things to comment on. A few examples:

Spoiler:

Dunn: two questions for you. First, to what extent is your scumread on nacho based on your orb-hunting theory?
Second -

My theory is that scum started with at least 1 fragment so they'd know what's going on

When did you come up with this theory?

Dunn, no. You said you had a theory. When did you come up with it? Did you have it in mind when doing the cheeki breeki dance with dreal on day1?

(and continuing this line of thought for a while...)

Mollie, yes or no: were the votes on dreal yesterday based on "playstyle issues"?

What do people think about camn calling every one of my posts scum

meh.

elaborate as to why you think that is unlikely

Do you have anything else to add to the thread other than this?

Anyway, Dunn, that judgement is... wrong. I was hoping that it would boil down to something other than this--

Dunn what's up with your vote?

Wait, dunn, am I poe scum or a prime lynch target?

3. Can you give examples of his "empty posts"

These are ok examples, but it's more of a general tone thing in all his posts as opposed to anything specific I can point to.

Spoiler:

@staeg I don't think you ever explained your scumread on me. Can you do so?

Your engagement with other people has been superficial - your questions, whether they are answered or not, do not seem to affect anything. You didn't seem bothered by me repeatedly ignoring your requests for reads, for example, while I am conveniently sitting in a "leaning scum but can't really tell" position since... the start of the game, from what I can tell.

Other than that, there's ancient history which you've allegedly caught too much flak for already (133); 932 was overexplained in a fairly paranoid way, your posts during the VC fiesta at the end of d1 rubbed me the wrong way and 1119 was seven kinds of evil - you start off d2 after a no lynch day 1 with no stances, no opinions, nothing you can be called out on - just a "hehe guys I am just as clueless as you are about the situation, this is unfortunate!" along with an esoteric "things will be looked into". What things did you look into? Why did you feel the need to even post that?

Staeg, what is your read on me, mlem mlem? I don't believe that people getting pushed for bad reasons make them town and you're more than experienced enough to know that's not a real way to read someone, mlem mlem.

Leaning town. I've liked your stances for pretty much the entire game, although I do not follow your tune beat for beat. I do not find your early d1 nonpresence scummy, either.
In general, yes, bad points don't make the accused town, but in some exception cases - like this one, where Dunn's only previous mention of you was two votes in the past, and now, on day 2, he comes on hard with loads of words that do not represent one coherent bit of information - it signals that there is no better fuel to throw into the engine.

It makes me feel uncomfortable with Dunn to boot. I would want to give him points for coming out of the gate, guns blazing, with information about the orb mechanism, but it would probably have ended up in the open during the course of day 2 anyway.

Dunn: two questions for you. First, to what extent is your scumread on nacho based on your orb-hunting theory?
Second -

My theory is that scum started with at least 1 fragment so they'd know what's going on

When did you come up with this theory?

Spyrex/camntsuki/other pokemons who have played in previous Fate-games: what lead you to believe that the VC thing was role-related and not another one of Fate's fanciful flourishes?

47-49 is burnworthy stuff

there is something missing from this post can you spot it

Don't you see it?

SED what do you think about these votecount shenanigens

Dunnstral - why ask this of "SED" in particular? Did you expect him to have specific information on these "shenanigens"?

Infinity wagon is good but dunnstral votes are better.

Yes. Me. Whiteknighting. On page 1. Of course. Yes. You got me.

SAD is a sad, grumpy man.

VOTE: pirate mollie

Is the wk accusation the main reason why you're voting mollie?

you didn't roll the second R in heartbreaking!

Is this important?

[Infinity 324]

I nom Dunn for hammerer.

You are infuriating

[Infinity 324]

I wanted you to elaborate on your scumread on me, and your thoughts on staeg. (1412)

Dear Kagami,

Please respond to this.

Sincerely,
Infinity 324

[Infinity 324]

I don't like that Infinity saw SpyreX's replace out and immediately starts pressuring Desperado about it, mlem mlem. I believe that scum need to keep options open at this point and I agree with the camncake that he'd want to keep the SpyreX hate alive, mlem mlem. But worse, I don't like how he votes and immediately tries to paint the action as something he wouldn't do as scum, mlem mlem; there's no reason scum!Infinity would be afraid to naked vote a replacement whether he's under pressure or not, mlem mlem.

Like I said before, I was trying to get camn' perspective and not really trying to argue anything. I may not have phrased it in the best way for that purpose, but that's what I was going for.

[Infinity 324]

I think the issue with spyre was more of a bigger issue about how he was approaching me throughout the game and I just snapped in that moment. I still don't really see how he got that I didn't have any solid opinions from my play this game.

[Infinity 324]

He's just saying he think I easily could've voted a replacement as scum so he didn't like what he interpreted as a defense.

[Infinity 324]

lol

[Infinity 324]

Gonna go ahead and add 1 more win to my scum record...

[Infinity 324]

Same

[Infinity 324]

This game was basically decided by randomness so /shrug

kagami and desp played really well

[Infinity 324]

Drealz was more or less conf-town on D3 if my understanding was correct.

He claimed two blocks on Nacho, N1 and N2. The second one must have stopped nacho's transformation, which means something happened to it on N1. N1 Desp claimed to be blocked, and clearly Nacho wasn't, so either drealz-scum was lying in a really silly way, or the he was the flipped scum redirector's target.

But i didn't redirect him

[Infinity 324]

<3 dreal <3 mollie I'm sorry this game was tough for you guys

and everyone really

[Infinity 324]

haha

[Infinity 324]

I'm curious

[Infinity 324]

He wasn't really modkilled. He was going to die from kagami's orb ability, and fate ended the day early because desp talked