Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

[Antihuman]

Hello friends and hello enemies

[Antihuman]

So many interesting players, this is gonna be exciting.
After an initial readup I got many townreads but some of them are slight.
Strong townreads are fitz and boring.
Townleans on Grey and Alisae.
Empking, CMM and Hawk are in the "said one thing I liked" category.
I got no kind of read on SS and BBT yet.
Mixed feelings about mozamis, LUV and FP, will need more time to sort them out.
I'm not too keen on elaborating at this stage cause it makes it easy for scum to tailor their play. But I'm keeping a spreadsheet so if you think you can call me out on empty reads, I can prove your wrong anytime

VOTE: mozamis

Very little substance in his posting, looks like coasting scum

@boring you scumread Alisae partly because of her "fluffing" (I don't necessarily agree with this point). What about mozamis?

@mod could you please fix VC 1.1?

[Antihuman]

Feedback on other wagons:

Reasons I tr Alisae:

I gotta admit I was uncerain about her at the beginning but I think she showed town signs lately.
I don't think her opening reaction test was scummy nor I think it was particularly towny. As pointed out, it was easy to see through but I prefer it to a standard random vote entrance.
1. I like that she uses both scumhunting and gut to test others' alignment.
2. I liked her #124 and everything leading to it. Scum are way more reserved about making serious statements like this cause it means they actually have to stick to what they said later on.
3. I don't think scum would retract so visibly with their vote as she did in #128, looks like she actually takes others' input into consideration and re-evaluates her reads.
4. I liked her #149, which was a proper response to BBT's underwhelming entrance.

Reasons I tr Grey:
This read formed mostly at the beginning of the game and I'm keeping in mind he hasn't posted feedback on latest activity yet.
1. I like his #21, good observation.
2. Another good point in #31.
3. His entire back-and-forth with Alisae looks TvT, his logic is sound.
4. His wagon appeared kind of out of nowhere and it doesn't have solid foundations. The only legitimate vote is boring's.

Admittedly, my townlean on Grey is weaker than on Alisae but I'd still prefer people switched onto mozamis for now.

[Antihuman]

He's just said he'll post some insight tomorrow though.

UnFOS: Blue, Anti

Unvote
Vote: Alis

Is the basis for your vote her not voting?
If so, why did you choose her and not LUV?
If not, what are the other reasons?
Do you usually prefer to join existing wagons or create them?

What about mozamis?

Sorry, I just realized that I completed skipped this part of your question. Mozamis is certainly in the bottom half for me. My vote might end up there later, if I never find a reason to TR him.

On the other hand, he's the easiest vote right now, and I've not seen a lot of scum flips Day 1. (None first-hand, outside a game on MU where the PL just happened to be scum)

Are you saying we shouldn't lynch an "obvious" target today? What is your suggested strategy then? Do you think random lynching from among a widely accepted scumpool is plausible, given the low percentage of hitting scum D1?

[Antihuman]

Have you re-evaluated your reads btw? Ready to cast a vote?

[Antihuman]

As for hawk the promise of digging into meta always seems town to me, just based on the pure effort required, when scum know they are just wasting their time. I did notice there was no follow up though.

Ugh. So basically another null read. Do you even have any substantial reads, apart from mozamis whom you're tunneling from the very beginning (which seems convenient, given it was your rvs vote)?

[Antihuman]

@mod

thank you!

[Antihuman]

CMM maybe. Personally I'm tone townreading him. Your reason to suspect SS is terrible though.

[Antihuman]

And I've found out a lot of scum disappear when under pressure and only post when not pressured. Wanna argue?
Not posting at all isn't "laying low". On the contrary- it makes you stand out more cause people like you like to go for such low-hanging fruit. I'm willing to bet SS is just overgamed.

[Antihuman]

I'm not Antihero But I'll look into the game you linked

[Antihuman]

SS has posted only once, I can't see how he's scum for being inactive right now.

I haven't been here for very long but it seems to me like their is a bias towards players who post more being scum and I feel the trend should be the opposite.

Do you think you're prone to being called scum cause you're active? Do you think that's what I'm doing right now?

[Antihuman]

@mod v/la until Monday

[Antihuman]

Hi

Spoiler:

On the topic of fitz vs BBT (p9):
I understand fitz's logic and I can see why BBT dislikes it. This argument looks TvT.

I dislike Alisae's jump back onto the Grey wagon in #201. She was supposed to re-evaluate her reads but instead saw the Grey wagon was getting traction again and jumped with low effort. The reason for her vote being a meta read so I don't see why she unvoted at all. Not enough to scumread her yet though.

mozamis, don't think I will let you slide on not taking a stance on the Ali vs. Grey 1v1.

Hang on, still catching up! Gut is telling me town on town. Most epic in thread fights always seem to be.

This post's terrible. There's like 3 different stances you've just presented at once:
1. I still haven't decided
2. I've personally judged it looks TvT
3. I'm using a meta tell

Seems fabricated.

Need more from a lot of people, but since he has given out "nervous scum" vibes, AND he is lurking:

VOTE CONMAN MICK

Where does he come off as nervous? I had the exact opposite feeling.

Not sure how I feel about Ali, let me read again

We're on page 10. I don't get the catchup posts. It'll take you what, 10 minutes to re-read the game? That's assuming you read as slowly as I.

Guess how long it has taken me to read properly when I replaced in (there were roughly 6 pages). Spoiler: 2 hours.

Ugh and now Alisae has given up her strongest scumread (#251). Not sure how I should read that, especially followed by that atrocious SS vote. Is he a tunnelling townie who's finally noticed he's wrong or is he scum acknowledging his push has lost its meaning?
Alisae explains his SS vote was purely for pressure but what good is it when you've openly admitted it?
Not sure if all this can be called a playstyle thing.

Not a fan of Hawk's #283-#284. Looks like insecure scum buddying.

Alisae's jump on Empking (#290) makes me think that's just his playstyle (inexperienced townie going for low-hanging fruit). Grey, can you confirm that since you know him?

Ok now the King wagon is getting a little bit ridiculous. 4 bare pressure votes, how is that supposed to work?

Join me on King.

Sure, Empking hasn't done anything to leave the bottom half of my nebulous read cloud yet.

VOTE: Empking

Why are we voting him in particular? I saw you mention the jump on Alisae and shade-throwing. It's kind of meh. I suppose those are things that happened, but surely, other people have been scummy too. Who's your second highest read?

I wanna sheep this shit as well. I also don't particularly townread them for fosing people who aren't voting when we're less then 10 pages in. Seems like kinda a shit reason to fos a group of people to me.
VOTE: Empking

Don't you scum lean him for that then?

Honestly I still don't have the best reads but I wouldn't mind hearing more from Emp.

VOTE: EmpKing

This is the epitome of opportunism

Hey Grey, if I said BBT was scum, would you buy it at all?

I wouldn't (for now)

Naked voting without a follow up isn't pressure.

Ok then please enlighten me how is this:

Join me on King.

Sure, Empking hasn't done anything to leave the bottom half of my nebulous read cloud yet.

VOTE: Empking

Why are we voting him in particular? I saw you mention the jump on Alisae and shade-throwing. It's kind of meh. I suppose those are things that happened, but surely, other people have been scummy too. Who's your second highest read?

Join me on King.

Sure, Empking hasn't done anything to leave the bottom half of my nebulous read cloud yet.

VOTE: Empking

Why are we voting him in particular? I saw you mention the jump on Alisae and shade-throwing. It's kind of meh. I suppose those are things that happened, but surely, other people have been scummy too. Who's your second highest read?

I wanna sheep this shit as well. I also don't particularly townread them for fosing people who aren't voting when we're less then 10 pages in. Seems like kinda a shit reason to fos a group of people to me.
VOTE: Empking

Don't you scum lean him for that then?

Honestly I still don't have the best reads but I wouldn't mind hearing more from Emp.

VOTE: EmpKing

Any different from King's vote on Alisae?

Do you really want me to say it?

I know what you're hinting at and if so, you're wrong. I would've mentioned her by now.

Do you want me to say it, yes or no?

Just say it

Okay.
You, BBT, and boring are masons.

Unless this was reaction test, it was awful. I'm gonna classify you as derptown for now.

King, I didn't say you were suspicious, I said your vote for Ali was. I found it suspicious because you had FoS'd everyone who wasn't voting before you casted your vote without giving them a reason to engage with you or the game itself. It looked like you did a quick skim of those same people and picked Ali because you thought he was low-hanging fruit and you wouldn't get too much flak for jumping on his wagon.

Ok this actually looks plausible. But this:

You even tried to justify it by siting your meta when no one had asked you why you were joining his wagon.

Isn't since it was me who asked King about his wagon tendencies:

He's just said he'll post some insight tomorrow though.

UnFOS: Blue, Anti

Unvote
Vote: Alis

Do you usually prefer to join existing wagons or create them?

But it seems he's ignored my other questions, unless I missed it.

Yeah the last two pages are really making me concerned about Ali but you just can't tell with him. It would've been nice if we had a cop in this setup.

Relying on prs to solve the game is weak.

Grey still looks town, maybe even more so.

[Antihuman]

Will post tomorrow

[Antihuman]

I'd be ok with Hawk being a compromise lynch closer to the dl but not feeling that great about lynching hm right now. I mean yeah, he's not been very towny but from my experience lynching people just cause they're not very useful usually ends up as a ml. Part of the reason moz's a temp park on my side (I think).

[Antihuman]

Similar

[Antihuman]

You misunderstood
I'm saying Hawk's a mediocre lynch atm and you're stuck in confbias if you think this is the optimal lynch right now

[Antihuman]

BBT I've already said why I don't feel utterly comfortable about lynching him right now. Nothing you've said, however, has convinced me otherwise. And no, I don't know who's scum at this state of the game.
How can you be so sure about him being scum on the sole basis he's coasting but when I voted moz for the same exact reasons you said you didn't understand my case? If coasting and fluffing's a scumtell for you how come you're only mentioning this right now? I see a lack of consistency within your reasoning. Why is that?

[Antihuman]

Hawk is just being lurk-scum, and therefore less of a threat than an active scum.

Why can't he be lurk-town?

If he was scum, his sparse posts would be different.

How different?

He's not the lowest contributor in this thread, despite being the lowest poster

If effort's not indicative of alignment, how come you townread SS on the account of him not contributing the least?

[Antihuman]

.

Are you town-reading Hawk? If so, please let me know what I'm missing. If not, why are you soft-defending him? Do you still think Moz is the best lynch?

I'm not townreading him but I feel like his lynch's just "too easy". I can't recall the last time I lynched somebody for 'not being towny enough' and they actually flipped scum. Which is also why I'm not too happy about my prolonged stay on moz's wagon

.

Snarky has given us non-sheep reads. For example, BBT isn't exactly a heavy favorite for today's lynch. He feels confident enough to pop in, say he thinks BBT is scum, and then turn his back. It's a very bold move for scum. If he was scum, he'd more more likely to sheep and agree with the majority.

I can see your reasoning but I don't think this is necessarily a rule. However, I don't see him as scum too.

[Antihuman]

@fitz I've literally admitted my moz vote was subpar in retrospect

[Antihuman]

Yeah I'm not lynching Hawk.

[Antihuman]

I'm gonna wait mozamis' catch-up before casting a vote.

[Antihuman]

Ah please just screw right off. If he didn't respond, you would've said he's scum laying low waiting for things to blow over. It's perfectly understandable to get angry about getting wagoned for not being active enough and imo he's responded well.

How can you be so sure about him being scum on the sole basis he's coasting but when I voted moz for the same exact reasons you said you didn't understand my case? If coasting and fluffing's a scumtell for you how come you're only mentioning this right now? I see a lack of consistency within your reasoning. Why is that?

Answer this please.

[Antihuman]

That's not what I said at all. Plus you haven't responded to Hawk's rebuttal in any way and you've dodged my question. How is that a town attitude?

[Antihuman]

Hawk's rebuttal was mostly theory talk and wishy-washy comments that didn't really go anywhere.

This is a cop out.

I haven't dodged your question - you asked why he is being lynched for coasting. I'm saying that's not why he is being lynched. What more do you want me to say?

Wait a sec, just before you claimed I said he's being lynched for inactivity, now you acknowledge I asked you about coasting.
What is he being lynched for then ?

[Antihuman]

No, my problem is you twisting my words to dismiss my arguments when you were clearly aware of doing that. And don't you play offended princess right now.

[Antihuman]

What is Hawk being lynched for?

[Antihuman]

Hawk is doing just enough to coast by whilst we have 13 players around and where his absence is not as easily noticed.

you asked why he is being lynched for coasting. I'm saying that's not why he is being lynched

VOTE: BBT

[Antihuman]

I now seem confident in my town read.

I still don't see how that's flailing.

The speed of my wagon and lack of resistance should be telling you something. But I'mma let you work that out for yourself.

You should help us figure that out if you really have town's best interest in mind. Who's the scum on your wagon?

[Antihuman]

Like, I know you've fosed LUV but I'm asking for your thoughts after you've calmed down and slept with it.

[Antihuman]

You can do that right now.

[Antihuman]

What's your alternative lynch? Is it still Hawk? Cause this isn't happening.

[Antihuman]

Ok then, someone please hammer.

[Antihuman]

To me it just looks like he didn't wanna give us any more info out of fear of outing his scummates.

[Antihuman]

I don't think Ali's scum.

Fitz, can you explain this:

I'm not being replaced. I'm not putting anyone else in this shitty position.

You're not in a "shitty position." You're just being an immature ass. Are you 13?

So BBT=policy lynch now. Copy.

VOTE: BBT

VOTE: Alisae

Why'd you back off so easily in your next post? I thought policy lynch = priority over anything else

[Antihuman]

I'm convinced BBT v Hawk is TvS. Can't figure out who the scum is in this situation.
So I'ma just sheep this
VOTE: Hawk

Sooo how about that?

[Antihuman]

Don't mine BBT. I feel he's one of Kings scumbuddies after a reread.

VOTE: BBT

L-1

How did you figure they were related? How does BBT's flip affect your King read?

[Antihuman]

People need to calm the fuck down. We still have 3 days to lynch.
We need more from BBT.
And I would like to hear more from Ali about her going from Hawk to BBT and unvoting and revoting etc.
I'll hammer BBT if necessary but i think we should hear more from him first.

Why'd you think it could've been necessary for you to hammer BBT right after you've noticed people were attempting some kind of a speedlynch?

[Antihuman]

Which part of BBT's iso that has remained unanswered made you wait with your vote?

[Antihuman]

V/LA until further notice

[Antihuman]

No need to replace me. I'll rejoin the game within 24h.