Mini Normal 1861: Musical Mafia (TOWN WIN)

[culted]

FOS: ALL

I had better be able to do this.

[culted]

And

VOTE: Newman

obviously

[culted]

Whoops,

UNFOS: CULTED

[culted]

Mini I disagree cloud strikes me as someone excited to roll town, and if it's a secret maybe the key isn't to immediately assume hiding something but to try and understand them better and figure it out that way. : )

[culted]

I think you're reading too much into it.

[culted]

Like even if you're trying to say he was trying to not roll his scumpartners or something I think he voted based on what number you are in the playerlist so it wouldn't be like he 'forgot' his buddies as scum unless they're all numbered towards the top.

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding where you think the scum motive is here altogether.

[culted]

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

[culted]

Hey cloud and mini what are your thoughts on jin?

[culted]

@Culted what is there to read into

It isn't strong but I dislike 25 as it's basically pure commentary while calling the nine roll weird. I'm wondering why if he thought it was weird he wanted an opinion from mini who was already calling you scum felt like a filler question.

Speaking of which I found it sorta town how mini didn't latch onto that despite pushing you; my impression of newer scum players is that they'll try and throw whatever dirt they can possibly find in jars that they're already filling if ya know what I mean.

[culted]

Theres way more scum content from mini who scumtold in my face for 2 pages str8 than a single somewhat fillery post from jin culted

Okay yea I think you're tunneling - can just tell by how you're immediately dismissing any other reads that happen to be in the same post with a townread on mini.

When you come into the game and call something 'weird' but want to see someone's response first that adds nothing. It's how scum post; make no waves while looking like you're making them.

And do you not see where the slight disconnect in mindset is that I'm sensing; ask a question you already acknowledged there isn't really an answer to without hearing what your mindset was first.

Like I said not a lock read but don't misrep me here. ; )

[culted]

Psst, guys, jin doesn't want to address the pressure on him until there's an 'actual wagon'.

Who's down to figure out how many votes jin thinks a wagon is?

[culted]

Where is your sense of adventure, a world where people can just do scummy stuff all the time without getting pressure for it, is a world where I can't lynch scum. : p

Have you seen anything indicative of town jin if we must meta?

Why's massive scum?

[culted]

I'm not saying that you should flail all over the thread, but to engage people who're taking issue with your thought processes instead of pretending that they aren't there, then possibly make us aware of how you're reading these things.

Have any questions for me jin?

[culted]

His questions felt pointless, and that vote on Kairal was super bad.

That's fair, 99 is pretty bad as well like you always see scum trying to push people while simultaneously impressing how they should be reading someone else.

[culted]

I don't really agree with the SAJ wagon in general after hosting a game with him, he mostly just feels like a fairly easy mislynch to push.

Why?

It sounds like you're obtusely encouraging jin to flail over the thread in this post
With current site meta your best bet really is to ignore scum reads on you unless there's something off on a really fundamental level

So I need to be off on a fundamental level for people to acknowledge my existence.

Cold world.

I'm torn more after thinking about it because I could have done better to make it a two way street but I mostly just wanted some interaction with him because his initial posts did ping me and some kind of reaction outside of a handwave would have been great. Like if someone doesn't understand your thought process on why you did something it's literally making the game harder for people like me who have a strong thirst for clarification.

Do you think the continuation of the mindset jin has shown from early game, where he stayed very neutral with his limited engagement up until now with posts like 165 and 177 where he shows about the same interest level (about zero) with having a conversation about the game isn't a valid concern at this point?

Because it's less about

my

concerns with him now and more about how there's no attempt at all to figure anything out, not just me, when there isn't anything a player can think to ask someone. There's no curiosity.

[culted]

Can you quote 99 and, specifically, what is exemplary of your point above?

Yea with relooking at 99 you don't seem to be pushing cloud.
Can I ask your motivation behind post 99 then and what your purpose was of discrediting cloud's townslip beforehand?
And also clarify what you meant by 'stick up for' kairal? Cuz in my mind kairal's trajectory on cloud the first few pages looks pretty transparent, calls out something he thinks is a slip, argues it until the realization that they're probably wrong kicks in and they move on.

Like, why do you think cloud should be taking issue with that?

Psst, guys, jin doesn't want to address the pressure on him until there's an 'actual wagon'.

Who's down to figure out how many votes jin thinks a wagon is?

It sounded more to me like he didn't see any pressure, or at the very least, didn't want us to think he saw pressure.

And he'd be completely correct in not seeing any pressure, as there wasn't any.

A vote doesn't need a paragraph of word vomit beneath it to create pressure.

What are your scumreads, AJ?

[culted]

So far i kinda townread massive, swan and cubic, massive/cubic seems like tvt to me

Who's cubic?

[culted]

What's town about jin?

[culted]

Damn pagetop.

@Io

[culted]

Catching up atm. Looks like this got a bit lolzy.

[culted]

VOTE: Newman

I think 278 comes from scum a good amount of the time.
He's too fixated on the cloud push, I think it's fair to say that trying to hammer home your own townness can be scummy in some environments, but he's not really trying to wrangle with anyone in particular about it. Mostly looks like he's just trying to convince cloud that he's scum and not really anyone else.

Ya know, stay justified, stay unquestioned, out of the limelight.

Specifically the "someone tell me why they're town" is scummy at the end, doesn't feel like someone searching for answers but someone looking like they are.

[culted]

What's town about jin?

I didn't say I was town reading him.
The votes on him were just seemingly out of nowhere and he's just commonly mislynched. I guess you could have seen that as town reading since you can't mislynch scum, but I was saying he's just an easy wagon to push for scum and he hadn't really been posting scummy material.

Nice mental gymnastics.

[culted]

And 'hungry/happy' is actually 'hellooo' for HelloNewman....

His post 79 is fine, calling CK out for congratulating himself on a townslip is all well and good. The only issue is HelloNewman never actually interacts with anyone outside of CK and tunnels a bit that he's scum long after most of us have him as town. I don't mind contradictory viewpoints, but with an unpopular view comes a burden of proof, and I don't think Newman attempts that at all in his post. His reasoning CK is scum doesn't change at all (propped himself up on a townslip) even though he challenges CK multiple times through different wordings for the same thing. As I've said, I feel CK's play there was anti-town (aka looking at himself instead of others) but still NAI. Newman should've been tasked at building a case to actually make something happen rather than just stating he didn't like CK. At that point in time, nothing was happening with CK as a wagon so he either needed to drop it and refocus or force a real reason behind it.

So that's what I've got on Newman for the 4 posts so far.

Yea basically this.

Wait, Elhabe2 got replaced, Kairal is still here. Kai is still the one I view as basic conf town tho.

I'm fuzzy on this though.

[culted]

He's a townlean for me, but I'm not sure how anyone's comfytown.

[culted]

Hellooooo everyone sorry had to do some things the last couple days. I'm gonna grab some breakfast and then catch up :3

[culted]

Mini and flubber argument looks to be fueled by a playstyle disagreement and personality clash more than anything and they're both actually making okay points at the same time while not caring very much how their pushes come off to everyone else. Think this is Tvt.

@Io

I realize a lot of people called you out on this but was there anything in particular from kairal's post on aj you resonated with that made you develop a scumread there?

@Kairal

When did your scumread on newman develop specifically?

Io is climbing in my scumreads.

k

Probably a scum reaction.

MDS

: Specifically can you quote my "bad logic" that I've "doubled down on"?

Meh, I was kinda iffy on massive earlier from some stuff on cloud that looked like cogdis (like I still find it strange how you can discredit someone saying they townslipped in one post and then tell them people taking issue with the slip isn't a reason to townread them in the next.) Like, he brushed it off as a handslap which eh? Kinda bad but the thought process behind those posts made more sense when he explained his townread later on and I'm not gonna act like I've always kept my reads easily traceable regardless of alignment.

But THIS shit is typical scumflail and massive's been playing since 03 he should know that nothing productive is gonna come from arguments like this.

My concern is not for whether you and CK are the same alignment, MDS, nor for whether the mod was correct in replacing CK for his actions. My concern is for the amount of time and effort you put into getting people to NOT LOOK AT IT, to ignore it, to claim it's NAI, and THAT is what makes me say "the lady doth protest too much." Which is, in all honesty, what "protest" MEANS. And how, of course, me "doubling down" has no actual link to factual in-thread posts. You tried. You failed.

I just don't see how MDS is still running this town.

Kinda torn though because these gut decently real.

Well its blatantly obvious to me who scum is, ill give you a hint, its flubber. He doesnt take much interest in the game until he feels he can strike at an opportune time and argue his way into getting a player lynched. He also, like Massive, doesnt really explain much. He also is just pointing fingers at MDS and pushing the points she is making aside. Its sort of like when you argue with your parents and they say "That doesnt matter, listen to me, i am the parent" he is just deflecting what she says with minimal effort.

I'm sad that nobody wanted to vote this with me.

I was typing when he posted his last few posts that defend himself a little more, it all looks very suspect to me still but not vote warranting.

What about it was suspect?

scummyness

Scumpost.

[culted]

@mod

An actual votecount instead of just saying "VC" would be great. : )

Rather a newman lynch > massive at the moment. With massive he's got a track record of bonking heads with mds so the benefit of the doubt that he's just tunneled and omgusing is there and despite how bad the push is as a whole I can kinda see the where he's coming from on the 'protest too much' stuff if I squint.

And on the other hand, like grey said, newmans mds vote is just pure opportunism.

My other preferences are jin and io; more enthusiastic about jin. Also kinda don't think these two are scum together.

Wouldn't end the day without content from IAMI.

[culted]

which Culted also said that other people asked so I don't see why Culted would have felt the need to talk about it.

Wanted to know if there was anything in particular that stood out from kairals analysis that you might've interpreted differently or your mind gave its own spin to in other words, which gave you more benefit of the doubt than what other people asked you about which is why I asked.

[culted]

I'm not seeing Newman (you can probably guess why)

I really can't.

[culted]

crap, u said jin and io can't be scum together, my bad

Right. But I see what you were getting at!

[culted]

The main argument about Newman stems from his re-entry and return to the topic of Cloudkicker being force-replaced. Since I agree with the read on this, it's hard for me to look at Newman's re-entry as non-genuine. Since Grey's entire case on me was that I was "caught" following his "bad logic," and I believe that bad logic, I have to believe Newman believes that bad logic.

And I'm unconvinced by Grey's case.

Even if you can't appreciate the distinction between you guys in that regard, newman looks to be laying down here.

[culted]

I'm not paranoid. I'm not piggybacking anything.

Y'all are silly.

For example.

[culted]

Speaking of Secret Agent Jin, I'm noting a concern here that he sometimes appears to be subtly encouraging conflicts between players whom I read as Town. In 508 there is no vote and no explanation of why Flubbernugget is incorrect, but rather he seems content to let MiniDeathStar do the lifting.

Fair point but I don't recall you having flub as town prior to this post?

[culted]

I mean, pretty blatant fakeclaim but I can understand the meta.

INTENT TO HAMMER

[culted]

And the above is why this is a good fallback lynch. Newman has exclusively scumposted this game. Io holds onto a townread there because lolaggressivetown.

Newman plays linebacker IRL regardless of alignment if you get what I'm saying.
Take into account the pushes not just the act of pushing.
Could be white knighting.

But I'm also thinking maybe they're just scum together. Because newmans Io vote was quite literally his first mention of her this game and I can see him being aware of all the scum he's dripping in and wanting us to double take on running her up.

Regardless,

VOTE: Io

[culted]

Not really sure what you're on about; I hammered you because I think you're scum. I just found the dynamic between you and newman interesting and put my thoughts on the record.

[culted]

Incidentally this is a perfect example of why blank voting is anti-town. Now we have 3 players doing it. We have no idea why. There's nothing we can point to and say 'your reasoning here totally contradicts your other post'. If any of these three votes are from scum or scum motivated we have absolutely 0 tools to do anything about it.

You can ask why.

[culted]

VOTE: Secret Agent Jin

[culted]

Culted almost didn't post yesterday

It was a busy time for me and I didn't expect a hammer that soon cut me some slack!

[culted]

Gonna have to look at this tomorrow I have just about no energy left tonight. Definitely due for a reread.

[culted]

Kairal, culted, IamI and massive claimed they didn't believe the claim.

Again. Notice a pattern?

What was believable about his claim?

[culted]

Guess who's back guys! Getting to this now.

Gonna start from page 36 since that's what I've got in my notes. : 3

[culted]

@culted, why did you hammer Io before giving her a chance to claim?

I didn't. If you're a role and someone declares intent and you don't claim you're either vt or scum silly!

Need more from Dierfire. So far two votes, Cloudkicker/Shadows slot (who I read town) and Io. 21 posts between him and his predecessor.

I haven't hated his content when he does post, though. And this is gonna sound weird but he's the only one who saw what I was trying to do during mini and cloud's early argument.

Was my subtle attempting at sidelining what I thought was tvt pretty obvious and something scum pick up on? Unbiased opinion would help.

Yes I suppose I can ask why. Given that you know I'm going to do so why not just save us all time? Can everyone who blankvoted recently or in future please do not and instead explain your vote.

There's certainly value to holding back reasoning that you're not accounting for, though! You don't want to let scum know why you're scumreading them, at least not right away. You also may want to see if other town are picking up what you're picking up. : )

Alright I can come back to massive later. I was about to lynch Cloud yesterday when he got replaced out and Shadow has basically slipped under the radar. I read through Io's ISO and either I missed it or she never really made a push on IamI - why are Shadow and Mini suddenly pointing fingers there?

VOTE: Shadow

I don't like the first line.
The last line seems like a throwaway question.

I understand why their suspicion strikes you as sudden. But why is sudden interesting in this particular instance, kai?

I am neither scum or scum. I am Jin, master townie. Anyways, if i had a gun to my head and i had to lay down a vote i would vote massive from going off of yesterday but i was wrong about Newman and IO, so maybe i am not 100% right all the time. About these votes on me, i dont seem to see a case, am i just missing it?

VOTE: Saj

I'd have voted him for that post too!

[culted]

Mini's 900

Calls jin lynchbait like 5 times and then tosses shade on him for 'copying her reads' in the same post.
One that doesn't make sense and is hedgy as all get out.
Two you basically saw'd flubber for voting jin just because jin has a lynchbait rep.

Terrible look considering that this was when momentum started to shift pretty strongly against jin; feels like trying for towncred on a mislynch but not wanting to kill the traction at the same time.

[culted]

Or maybe not try for towncred (depending on what kind of player scum!mini is) because that post isn't gonna look

that

good on a townflip as much as other posts would have.
But using jin as leverage while still opening the idea up for others to see him hang is more like it and is actually kinda worse now that I'm thinking about it.

[culted]

Reaction test.

I've developed no reads in this games by interacting with other players.
I thought town was going in the correct direction so I just sheeped my town reads basically, the Hello flip just baffled me. Even the way the claimed I couldn't believe it at all. It seemed like it was a last ditch attempt at drawing a CC.
Been pretty crap by my own standards, so I wanted to see how he reacts and how other do to it.

VOTE: Shadow

[culted]

The second half of the saj runup was whimsical and if I'd have been around I probably would have embarrassed myself. : 3



massive kinda takes the runup into a more serious zone by being the first person to really try and make a case (at least that day) and gives some pretty OKAY reasons like despite the buzzwords I could follow the thought process on jin seeming more hesitant with voting in certain contexts.

Then good old grey.

And then kairal.

[culted]

culted likewise has been on Jin from very early. Grey's vote is the only one that looks opportunistic. However he's obviously town. In short everyone on this wagon is either confirmed town or has been pushing this for a while.

Okay so wait.
Who was confirmed town on the wagon?
What does people pushing jin for a while have to do with jin's alignment?

[culted]

Benefit of the doubt? I don't know of a town that would lynch a claimed cop on day 1 without substantial evidence. What made it a "pretty blatant fakeclaim"?

Everything about it. And the point isn't that anyone would have lynched newman or not.

I sorta feel like if you had any compelling reason to think newman's claim was more likely to come from town (or shit, a compelling reason to think newman looked town at all would have sufficed) then saying that it was interesting for the particular people who didn't believe the claim would make more sense. But if you don't have a wavelength for that then I'm forced to assume you were noticing things stick out not because they didn't make sense to you but because they were things that stuck out.

[culted]

Oh cool lots of stuff happened!
Had a feeling massive was town. Claim makes sense but I thought it was more of that thing where you tunnel on someone for days to no avail and then you get the weird realization of 'holy fuck if this person was town wouldn't scum want to get in on this' kinda paranoia thing - BUT THEN I THOUGHT - I could have just been being superbad because actually looking at mini in detail you'll find she wasn't all that town.



I also find it awfully scum indicative that kairal blatantly ignored my questions I asked them right after my last catchup! Then proceeded to finally 'take a closer look at my iso' and create a scumread on me out of nadda.

VOTE: Kairal

[culted]

In these posts Culted calls out massive but immediately backtracks. Also there are a lot of bad reads going around but here we see that Culted wants to lynch Io, Jin and Newman. All now confirmed to be town. Actually a large amount of Culted's Iso is tunneling on Jin.

Like.

Was there anything about my thought processes on massive that you took issue with?
Can you talk about why I wasn't justified in having those reads?

This just feels like scum bravado to me especially the line "all now confirmed to be town" is laying it on thick. feels less like someone trying to empathize and more like trying make this sound better than it actually is.

[culted]

Honestly Grey was really into the Jin lynch. The issue is, no one in the town (outside Jin) really was interested in stopping it. Dierfire in 656 and 935 showed a logical progression that should've had him believing jin as scum (It was conditional on Newman being town, which was found after N1). Everyone voting Jin (other than arguably Kairal) was scumreading Jin. MDS... didn't seem interested in stopping it, and I'm inclined to believe hers was more a scumread on jin than a townread. Shadow doesn't mention Jin once outside a random quote ("how do you know me" essentially). Which really leaves me, who was townreading Jin but didn't really do anything to prevent it. The lynch was going to happen, it's more a question of the hammer time.

Fair to say that there wasn't much loud resistance but does that mean we don't analyze the runup? No.
I was thinking earlier that because there wasn't much resistance and saj was scummy as fuck that it was probably pretty towndriven because there was some lolz about it and peeps like mini trying to maximize but I don't think there's a world where mini-slot is scum here now... so shadow-slot is feeling like the scum off. Maybe dier too.


Bottomline though, scummiest vote on is kai's.

[culted]

No official top 3 for the day I found, but subtle attacks on kairal and mini, vote to Shadow. No mention of {AJ, Flubber, or Dierfire}

You just quoted a post where I explicitly asked for your thoughts on my reasons for thinking Dierfire might be town. LOL

AJ is obvtown.
Flubber's frustration on page 42 is pretty real.

[culted]

Kairal giving shadow a pass based on replacing out and sorta stuffing me into the same tier as him when we've nowhere near the same level of content and then not even attempting to engage me once I found time for this may be indicative of buddies.

Let's see.

[culted]

Page 5; time for a break.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7shCvDXUU

Thoughts so far;

I have a Green read off of culted There actions don't fall in line with what I'd concider red moviation and they seem to be thinking and working well off others.


HellloooNewman
I Am Innocent
Aj The Epic

Are getting free pass's for just generally not getting any interest from me what so ever. (AKA Null reads)

Massive should also be a null read but I didn't like there reaction to my last post. seemed a bit weird//not what I remember but then again I think thats just me so you can sit in the cataogry im gonna call the void which lines in a space between null and redish.

I didn't really like flubbs reaction to CK's faked slips but I think if they are as smart as I think they are they also might of called it and not cared as I would of if I was playing and not in this slot.

Dierfire I didn't like there entrance post and given it was 5 pages in thats kinda lurky.

Kairal Probs my biggest red read on page 5. Apart from voting every green read I've had bar one. They always seem kinda weak. I also didn't like them leaving the gray train that they had committed too earlier.

Black Void I have your slot listed as possible red. Though I didn't write down why and off the top of my head don't remember must been a post your precessor did. but I can find that in a bit once I'm done and might get some more supporting or conflicting evidence for you being red. sorry for the vagueness but I lost the note XD

FOS: Kairal

I'm not gonna vote until I have read up and know if my reads are right. but as a reaction to the first 5 pages. this is what I got. stay tunned for more later after I wish to continue

The townread on me is making me waffle. : 3

Why just fos kai and not vote him?

[culted]

Oh you didn't read spoilers before catching up.

Strange.

[culted]

I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)

Hmm.

What did you see that changed from your initial impressions up to page 12?

[culted]

Frustration and apathy are more of a cause and effect thing. He's frustrated that his pushes are being tuned out and it makes perfect sense for flubber to become apathetic as town because his top scumread is now suddenly chainsawing him about his read on mini (another scumread) and not many people batted an eye.

Unless you're saying that emotions are ever stagnant and can't change even in the moment.

[culted]

Finished the first seven pages. Kairal and Flubbernugget are townreads. Naomi's slot and AJ are scumreads. I also don't buy massive's claim. Even night cop and odd night cop together are too convenient and I'm not sure why everyone else is. It's far more overpowered than a regular cop because that would be two additional people that the scum need to kill other than the confirmed innocents. I also don't think odd-night cop, even-night cop, and JK all exist in the game.

Today is the day before lylo (in the event we mislynch). So, we should mass-claim. I also think having confirmed town decide the order is optimal strategy not to mention more efficient. I think we should go in the order of Naomi -> AJ -> Dierfire/Culted/IAI -> Kairal -> Flubbernugget.

Why do you think kairal is town?

If massive was scum do you not think IAMI's cop thingy at day start would make him hesitate to fakeclaim?

Who has all claimed so far and is this order we decided to go with?

[culted]

There's of course the tinfoil scenario where IAMI and massive are scum together and one soft-claimed to test the waters so that massive could claim freely after a certain point and then clear mini (begs the question of why mini though because that still seems like a viable lynch without the clear). Possible they thought that there was more convenient things to push.


Point being it seems high-risk low-reward and that massive-scum doesn't make that claim if IamI is town.

[culted]

Well I'm no longer scum reading massive so it's not really relevant anymore.

It is relevant because you're taking issue with my thought process. I'd like you to explain why.

[culted]

I already did but ok. I had no problem with your argument- however you made an argument shifting the focus from massive to Newman. This is exactly what a scum team might try when one of their members was the front runner for a lynch. As I say though massive's claim checks out, he's not scum, so you can't be his scum partner so there's no use discussing it.

This is my entire problem.

You're taking a surface approach looking for arguments you don't even have a problem with that fit nicely snug and square into this massive/flubber/culted narrative without even attempting to see my side at first. But when pushed on it you say that my thought process isn't something you have a problem with.

Why do you think I'm scum? Why do you think flubber's scum?

Why are you waffling so hard on massive's claim?

[culted]

Deadline extension would be great.

[culted]

Yeah and the fact that you don't get another investigation in that scenario is one of the many reasons your claim is suspect.

Massive and mini were the buzzwords before his claim.

[culted]

I am confirm as of right now I have no intent of pushing you and if your content remains consistent post page 22 Im pretty certain that won't change. You may been one of my later reads but I been Green reading you for at least 12 pages. (though I don't have my notes the precise time)

Hmm.

What did you see that changed from your initial impressions up to page 12?

Im guessing you mean in reference to Kairal. Their content stepped up. at page 5 (125 posts in) they had only really made a few one line statements and a series of tripple posts at the very tip. Post that point we had a lot of good discussion which helped me make my green read after. Posts like this one;

Sheeping discussion. Personally I've never really understood the concept. The whole reason I make arguments is in order to persuade people. I want them to go 'Oh that's a convincing argument that X is scum, so I'll vote for them too'. To me sheeping seems like successful persuasion. On the other hand last game scum did blatantly use my argument, everyone else called them out for it and lynched them. So it seems it is a scumtell. It's a weird thing that's for sure.

Anyway right now we have 2 votes on AJ (from Massive and Io) and I don't see any reasoning provided for either. Mind explaining? Personally I looked through his ISO and he looks fine to me. By which I mean he has a reasonable number of posts and doesn't seem afraid to create solid interactions with people, and is actively creating content. Now sure my reads are often poop as previously established but if you post persuasive arguments as to why he should be lynched maybe I'll vote him too :p.

As red you'd have no real reason to make people out to be less red for easily ML's So it makes sense to me that their Red.

The last line doesn't make any sense.
I don't understand how kairal is trying to make aj a less likely mislynch here all he's doing is asking people why there's votes on him; if anything that's opening the door for him to get more votes.

[culted]

kai/naomi/iami

Flubber is an obvious deadline lynch on town if I've ever seen one.

[culted]

@mod

I'm almost certain that vc is wrong.

What I'd like to do now is figure out exactly why there's so much resistance to a kai lynch.
And why everyone in the game is lock-scum on flubber.

[culted]

Finally took a good look at iami's iso.

It's repulsive.

[culted]

Her posts today have been giving me scum vibes but that town tell is pretty strong.

Checks out as a kai partner as well this is good.

[culted]

The goddamn entirety of kairal's gamesolving today has been.

"well gee, culted and flubber make sense as scum with massive, so I'll just vote whichever of them my whimsy tells me to vote every other page"

Which doesn't make sense considering kairal took massive's claim at face value and then continued to push that narrative while having zero reason to suspect flubber and i individually.

It's just scum trying to lynch whatever.

People need to look into iami. Specially that day 1.

[culted]

Still reading. I read everything so it's going to take me a while. Can we have one more person vote extension please? Massive? Flubber? Culted? Dierfire?

By the way, no comments on my mass-claim proposal? We're a day off from lylo so unless there's some part of site meta I don't understand, now

is

the optimal time for mass-claim.

I asked you a copuple pages back whta the order was and why you were feeding into the paranoia on massive that shit is gonna fuck us over. I'm vt.

[culted]

I'd be more inclined to take that seriously from someone who isn't voting me entirely based on OMGUS.

Saying that your take on the game is manufactured and convenient isn't omgus.

So why do I think you're scum? I've explained a few times but lets go through it. Firstly and most strongly it's just process of elimination. I have town reads on Dier, IamI and AJ. I'm willing to entertain the idea that massive is lying but for personally unless we get pretty strong evidence otherwise I'm inclined to take role claims at face value. Even if massive was lying he'd be very unlikely to clear a scum buddy so BV is town. That leaves 3 people of which you are one.

"PoE" isn't a reason to call someone scum. Ifthat's how you arrived at me as scum then it doesn't make sense to posit my posts as scummy without explaining what my scum motive would be. To be fair you've used some preflips in places (that still don't particularly make sense on top of that but w/e)

"I'm inclined to take role-claims at face value"
You don't role scum often do you? xDD

From here I decided to try and narrow it down by looking for patterns of interaction. Naomi is flinging a lot of shade at Flubber, whilst you are acting exactly like I would expect Flubber's scum partner to act. Moreover looking back through the game you frequently avoid interacting with Flubber despite the two of you having a pretty strong scum read on Jin. You never really provide a good explanation for that read either.

You're scum with naomi so it makes sense for you not to take the other angle here.

And I could also say you 'avoided' interaction with a good number of slots. But depending on what your reads were or if that slot was lurking I'm not just gonna check off another box and call you scum with it. Why doesn't it make sense to have more interaction with people who aren't on a similar wavelength?

And that's complete bullocks; Jin got lynched day 2 for a reason.

Then as I noted earlier you happen to make an argument that we should all be voting Newman whilst massive is the main wagon in town. The timing on this is exactly the timing I would expect from scum trying to divert a wagon on one of their buddies onto a townie.

And once again if you fine the argument fair...
...Begs the question why it stood out to you in the first place.

Are you town looking at just straight trajectory? Then why the undertone when you initially found it interesting of the thoughts being scummy?
Are you scum just trying to make your reads make sense? This I find more likely given your flail and repeated desire to stick to your guns.

None of this makes me certain you are scum. However your actions are consistent with scum motives and you've contributed very little to town.

Last line just hedges this entire post.

Why aren't people voting this?

[culted]

You know just rereading your ISO... the entirety of the first two days you never have a scum read who hasn't been confirmed town at this point. Never. It's all Io, Newman and Jin. We all have bad reads sometimes and none of us are coming out of this game looking good. Still I think it's particularly notable that you only ever scumread people that we now know are town. I don't think the same thing is true of any other people left alive.

It is true for everyone left alive.
Nobody knows who's reads have been better or worse: we haven't seen a scumflip yet.

[culted]

Kairal why do you think iami is town?

[culted]

What about his push on dier looks town to you? Do you also think dier is town or? Kinda hard to tell. Why are scum less likely to move after untouched LHF?

pedit: Dierfire what's your read on kai and flubb?

[culted]

he's so widely town read

And who does this refer to exactly?

pedit: massive could be scum but if he is he sold the clear on BV/mini pretty well.
the paranoia around it is essentially that everyone should play cop perfectly and hide their results so that nobody can ever tell until you're dead and only at L1. Not a robotized fantasy I fancy.

[culted]

only claim at l1*

[culted]

Naomi would you vote kairal?

[culted]

@mod

I'm almost certain that vc is wrong.

What I'd like to do now is figure out exactly why there's so much resistance to a kai lynch.
And why everyone in the game is lock-scum on flubber.

I can explain my red flubs read if you would like. But I wish for you to request it so I know this isn't directed at Kairal

Those questions were for whoever...

[culted]

When did you have a scumread on I am?

And you're not caught up yet?!

[culted]

There had been like four unvotes. If he was in serious disbelief, wouldn't he have to counterclaim there?

Depends on if he thought he could get him lynched without it.

If newman doesn't die n1 you think he doesn't get lynched?

[culted]

@iami
Who said anything about you being scum for having bad reads?

[culted]

including you whose reads I mostly aligned with all game.

So if you acknowledge this and then realize precisely how sheeplurk your play was up until you softclaimed cop why isn't it understandable that you've been off my radar until you start pushing me as scum for no reason?

I assume you'll come back around at some point and re-read the conversation that Just Freaking Happened regarding this. Who knows though.

It's the new playstyle. -Complete obliviousness-

Culted fits well into scum teams, hasn't been very helpful and has a pretty bad push on me.

I wish I could say there's never been a worse case on me. : 3
But IAMI thinks I'm scum because........ nobody else has pushed him yet.

I just still don't understand like my initial push was just trying to get you to expound on your thoughts- I don't wanna play mafia in a world where that's scummy. Or acceptable to not have to explain why you think things are scummy ya know?

So it seems I'm your next ml target Kairal?
I'l get caught up during the weekend.
Meanwhile what is everyone's read on Kairal?

Ok so my main scumread on culted comes from him hving useful interactions for a scum team with Flubber and massive. I'm not scum reading either of them right now it's a little hard to justify a culted read.

Do you think scum shadow would post this about me if we were on a team culted?

I don't really see why not.

There's actually a world where you, with your vote everything that moves kinda thing going on, would feel compelled to not just vote for town and wanted to pressure shadow a bit for being a low contributor. In such a case I figure this is exactly how they'd respond. There isn't really any commitment going on from either side because he can just start posting again- or replace out and you guys create some distance in the process then go about your merry way as if nothing ever happened.

If you're going to say you're not scumreading Flubber/culted/massive, I'm gonna want a new reads list from you.

More benefit of the doubt than I would give.

snip

First of all: lol @ the idea of me being scum with kairal. Why do you think I'm scum?

I'm also finding it hard to follow the logic that because kairal and iami started pushing me recently but kairal dropped her scumread on me for a decent minute that they don't make sense as scum together.

What is your read on iami independent of me and kairal?
And how does flubber fit in with naomi considering she's mostly just talked about voting him since she replaced in?

Urgh im too sleepy to handle this properly.. Okay so here is how I'm going to deal with this right now. I'm going to direct a small bit at each of you then im going to sleep and I expect to change whats going on.

Kairal Thought your read after your theory lined up with my declaration, I would advise you reconcider your actions. The way you got to the read is flawed.

Kairal II: Though It is a flawed read it is not in anyway alignment indicative. Just not a theory that is fuctional as its built on flawed foundations

AJ: this is oppertunistic and bad play does not equal Red members. Your right about the logic and the theory (at least I think I didn;t really check as I just want sleep) but it was not the time to push as It did not reflect on their alignment

Both: We should focus on less wildcard lynches today. you may red read each other but the majority is focused on flubs and myself. You should also focus us as the day is all most over and tackle your issues tommorow when we can explore this more in depth without risking a rushed misslynch due to time.

Hopefully this settles you both down. I didn't really wanna post as I just want sleep but I couldn't let this sit and result in a miss lynch.

What even?

If you're trying to calm down an argument I'm wondering why you need to misrep both sides down to insultingly basic levels and then just straight up tell them that they're wrong.

clip

I nodded along to this mostly.

And I don't believe kairal's poe is genuine because it changes around too much and when I ask him about certain reads like his townreads on you and iami I'm left with shrugs or in even stranger cases... that iami is actually a worse example of one of his prominent reasons for throwing shade on people in general: who pushed on jin and for what reason.

[culted]

If you think kairal is a bad lynch you're gonna need to do better than showing everyone how much he likes to vote-hop.

[culted]

There's one day until deadline and all you've got is "hey look at these lurkers who haven't voted much" and you're not voting either of them...

Like is this some kinda no-lynch attempt or what

[culted]

So kairal's probably town.

VOTE: Flubber

[culted]

Was also probs wrong on iami- he was a big part in making the aj lynch happen.
Probably just was omgusing on him because his push on me was bad.

Naomi or dier was the bussvote.

Dier's hammer was awkward... but naomi is more scum by play.
Torn there.
So we lynch the obvscum who was off today and work that out tomorrow.

[culted]

Kai I'm town.
I still don't get how your operate. That's where my push came from like- how you develop reads just isn't natural.
But when I relinquish my omgusyies and take a look at the bigger picture- you're probs green.

You should try to do the same for me. Understand that people can be wrong.

[culted]

I'm not gonna laugh at anyone postgame this game- my reads so far have been the worst I've had in a long time. ; )

And yea of course.
Let's talk about who you think is scum after I flip town!

[culted]

Kairal's entire game is omgus- that much is clear.
But he's new so it's meh.

[culted]

massive what are your thoughts on dier?

[culted]

[culted]

Kairal take a minute and realize why what you just said doesn't make any sense.

[culted]

I'm leaning flubber/dier now.

That last vote was just opportunistic as all hell.
He basically admitted that he was townreading me because I thought he was town.

My theory is flubber was waiting around to see if I kept pushing on kairal- now that I'm not it isn't really in the cards so he goes for the next easiest thing.
This should be obvious.

[culted]

Flubber what about IAMI's confbias bad-push do you resonate with exactly?

[culted]

Did you even read yesterday? Aj got lynched because I called him out. Would never have happened otherwise.

I'm reminded of an old mafia proverb.

There is no I in Town.

[culted]

Actually I'm pretty sure you just hammered me~

[culted]

VOTE: culted

Just to be safe.

[culted]

Kairal's got this in the bag anyway.

[culted]

Oh this is the part where I should probably PM gamma huh.

[culted]

And also post-spam to make the thread harder to read?
Heard that's an okay strat.

[culted]

Hey you know a lot of yall out there man really running yall mouth

[culted]

Like you just like to hear yourself talk

[culted]

You know what I mean?

[culted]

Talk so much, not knowing if the wagon make the more noise man

[culted]

Haha, get you some money man

[culted]

@Kairal

Do what you want to do
There aint no rules it's up to you
It's time, do what you do
There aint no rules...

[culted]

Let the music get to you~

[culted]

There aint no room...

Just enjoy yourself~

[culted]

Gotta leave that nine to five

You live it off the wall~

[culted]

[culted]

Sweeter than wine~~~~~

Softer than the summer night~~~~

[culted]

(Case on me was garbage btw) : 333

[culted]

I've got sunshine
On a cloudy day~

[culted]

When it's cold outside
I've the month of may

[culted]

I guess you'd say
What can make me feel this way

[culted]

My girl. (My girl)
Talkin bouttttttt my girrrrrrl~

[culted]

(MUSICAL MAFIA MY ASS NOBODY WILL EVEN SING ALONG WITH ME -- SUP WITH THAT WEAK SHIT?)

[culted]

I can't seem to face the facts...
I'm tense and nervous and I...
...can't relax

[culted]

Don't touch me I'm a real live wire....

Psycho killer
quest ce que c'est~

[culted]

fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa fa far better~
Run run run run run run awaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy~

[culted]

(I was

caught

bussed by someone who doesn't know what twilight is)

/dies of embarassment

[culted]

I can't stop this feeling~
Deep inside of me.

[culted]

Girl, you just don't realize
What you do to me~

[culted]

When you hold me
In your arms so tight
You let me know
Everythings all right

[culted]

I, I'm hooked on a FEEEEEEELING.

I'M HIGH ON BELIEVING
THAT YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH MEEEEEE

[culted]

If it makes you feel better I was seriously considering the possibility that it could be Dier instead.

<33

[culted]

A green plastic watering can
For a fake chinese rubber plant
In the fake plastic earth

[culted]

That she bought from a rubber man
In a town full of rubber plans
To get rid of itself

[culted]

It wears her out (It wears her out)

[culted]

She looks like the real thing
She tastes like the real thing
My fake plastic love~

[culted]

[culted]

Waiting in a car~

[culted]

(To everyone out there hating -- better than that shakira song that gamma put in like 5 different votecounts LOL)

[culted]

(I'm also pleased my MASS FOS obstructed the VCs -- top tier strats right there : p)

[culted]

Time shakes found you at the water,,

[culted]

at first you were my father now i love you like a brother

[culted]

earthquakes shake the dust behind youuuu

[culted]

this world at times will blind youuu

[culted]

still i know ill see you there

[culted]

come a little closer~
then you'll see
come on come on come on

[culted]

time flies by, they all sang along!!!
time flies by, they all sang along!!!

come a little closer then youll see
come on come on come onnnnnn

[culted]

(your moms so poor she went to mcydees and put a shake on layaway)

[culted]

OH YOUUUUU

YOU GOT WHAT I NEED

[culted]

BUT YOU SAY HE'S JUST A FIREND

[culted]

(oh this is good one)

[culted]

I'm sorry ms jackson

[culted]

i AM FOR REAAAAAL

[culted]

NEVER MEANT TO MAKE YOUR DAUGHTER CRY

[culted]

i APOLOGIZED A TRILLION TIMES

[culted]

ME AND YO DAUGHTER

GOT A SPECIAL THING GOING ON

[culted]

(okay let's see if I can fill a page by myself here goes)

[culted]

you should have seen by the look in my eyes baby

[culted]

there was something missing

[culted]

you should have known by the tone of my voice maybe

[culted]

but you didn't listen

[culted]

you played dead

[culted]

but you never bled

[culted]

instead you LAID STILL IN THE GRASS

[culted]

all coiled up and hissin

[culted]

and thought i know all about hose men

[culted]

still i don't remember

[culted]

cause it was us...

[culted]

baby, way before then, and were still together

[culted]

and i meant

[culted]

every word i said

[culted]

WHEN I SAID THAT I'D LOVE YOU

[culted]

I MEANT THAT'D I LOVE YOU FOREVER!!!!

[culted]

and im gonna keep on loving youuuuuuu

[culted]

cause its the only thing i want to doooooo

[culted]

i don't want to sleep

[culted]

I just wanna keep on

[culted]

loving you~

[culted]

Oh shit ran out of lyrics

[culted]

It's okay though almost there

[culted]

Ah here we go guys.