Large Normal 201 - House of Harmony - At The End(GAME OVER)

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Alisae

seems another D1 lynch for you inc

[Ramcius]

Hey Ram do you fos Alisae or is that an RVS vote

more like RVS, but never can't be sure with jesters

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Alisae

seems another D1 lynch for you inc

Bruh I would pound that shit

bring it on

[Ramcius]

lel

as much as i love large rvs wagons, shaggy's been there for me through thick and thin, and i cannot participate on this one. ;-;

you sure it's real Shaggy and not imposter?

[Ramcius]

Hey Ram. You wanna watch some cute lolis dance for 1 hour and 10minutes?

no thx

[Ramcius]

can i vote more than 1 person at once? Cause i feel urge to do so, really badly

[Ramcius]

can i vote more than 1 person at once? Cause i feel urge to do so, really badly

You can't vote more than one person unless your role permits it, however, I would like to hear who else you'd vote, and if you have substantial reason behind it or not.

i wonder how many smiles i have put at end of message for people to realize i'm joking...

as on serious note, i consider everyone of you to be a scum, until proven otherwise, with rope preferably Pep, Gamma and Alisae should already know that my preference

[Ramcius]

Ram no.
No ongoing discussion about other games.
Bad.

i'm not discussing any ongoing games, i'm just say you know my playstyle, and anyone can go and read that game, it's open for everyone

[Ramcius]

So I'm gonna use this day to evaluate it!

you can try, maybe you see my true VI plays, it's easier to do so in large games

[Ramcius]

can i vote more than 1 person at once? Cause i feel urge to do so, really badly

You can't vote more than one person unless your role permits it, however, I would like to hear who else you'd vote, and if you have substantial reason behind it or not.

i wonder how many smiles i have put at end of message for people to realize i'm joking...

as on serious note, i consider everyone of you to be a scum, until proven otherwise, with rope preferably Pep, Gamma and Alisae should already know that my preference

You seem to be suggesting lynching town

nice try, Gamma, really nice try, but it's my job push people around, not yours, or rules changed?

[Ramcius]

But who has been with both of me and transcend
btw I'm going to need a name for my mod alt/hydra
can anyone suggest a nice neutral sounding name

The Prod King

The Mod King sound great tbh

why so humble just king? Should be Prod God

[Ramcius]

But who has been with both of me and transcend
btw I'm going to need a name for my mod alt/hydra
can anyone suggest a nice neutral sounding name

The Prod King

The Mod King sound great tbh

why so humble just king? Should be Prod God

Bshssm. Hmmm, he needs to deserve to be the Prod God tho...

sure, says god of gods...

[Ramcius]

But who has been with both of me and transcend
btw I'm going to need a name for my mod alt/hydra
can anyone suggest a nice neutral sounding name

The Prod King

The Mod King sound great tbh

why so humble just king? Should be Prod God

Bshssm. Hmmm, he needs to deserve to be the Prod God tho...

sure, says god of gods...

I like that you are admitting that I am indeed THE ALL MIGHTY GOD OF GODS!

i didn't said mighty you have earn that

[Ramcius]

But who has been with both of me and transcend
btw I'm going to need a name for my mod alt/hydra
can anyone suggest a nice neutral sounding name

The Prod King

The Mod King sound great tbh

why so humble just king? Should be Prod God

Bshssm. Hmmm, he needs to deserve to be the Prod God tho...

sure, says god of gods...

I like that you are admitting that I am indeed THE ALL MIGHTY GOD OF GODS!

i didn't said mighty you have earn that

It's not like you don't know I wil

contrary, i know you don't

[Ramcius]

I take this as a challenge.

are you sure you want challenge me?

[Ramcius]

I take this as a challenge.

are you sure you want challenge me?

Bring it on sucker!

don't say i didn't warned you later

[Ramcius]

I take this as a challenge.

are you sure you want challenge me?

Bring it on sucker!

don't say i didn't warned you later

I'm all too great! There will be no later after my overwhelming awesomeness crashes you!

we'll see about that

[Ramcius]

Okay caught up
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

why vote him?

[Ramcius]

Okay caught up
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

why vote him?

Immediately voting the dude who called my fake mason claim is basicly a cheap and easy way to get an easy justified vote.
And the shitposting doesn't feel like it's coming from town!Gamma so he's most likely trying to hide in it.

i can't see him pushing on that guy, so i take that as RVS vote until he tries defend his position, and you shouldn't trow naked votes around

[Ramcius]

Okay caught up
VOTE: Gamma Emerald

why vote him?

Immediately voting the dude who called my fake mason claim is basicly a cheap and easy way to get an easy justified vote.
And the shitposting doesn't feel like it's coming from town!Gamma so he's most likely trying to hide in it.

i can't see him pushing on that guy, so i take that as RVS vote until he tries defend his position, and you shouldn't trow naked votes around

Then you can be a good townie and ask why I do things

sure i can, but sheeping is scummy, or starting wagon like that without stating a reason, and next time it might be wagon on you after naked vote

[Ramcius]

VOTE: alisae

not RVS

y vote the mason?
VOTE: drealmerz7

Lol you belive his claim?

Not really but it's antitown to vote a mason claim anyway

But a mason claim that early in the game, no?

it's was very obvious fake claim, but i know from experience most obvious things are hardest to spot, and that applies to fm way too often for my liking

[Ramcius]

Actual real vote time.

VOTE: Ramcius

While it's not alone worth voting for, I've never really liked plays type disclaimers like the one in 122. They always read more like preemptive excuse making.

Moving along, I don't really like 266 or 270 either. They both have this wishy washy tone in that they aren't outright calling Alisae scum, but they are implying it in a way that would be easy to back out of. And while his vote is on Alisae it's essentially an RVS vote from waaay back, so, again, it's an almost kinda scumread that's easy to back out of.

well, me and Alisae have still ongoing game together, so till it's not ended, i can't explain my actions, but why you think i can't have genuine feel on Alisae to be scum?

[Ramcius]

well, me and Alisae have still ongoing game together, so till it's not ended, i can't explain my actions, but why you think i can't have genuine feel on Alisae to be scum?

I never said your scumread couldn't be real. Even scum are going to have real scumreads in multiball.

My problem was that it looks like you were trying to avoid committing to scumreading Alisae. Your vote was there and you were questioning him but it looked like you were letting yourself out of the read. For example:

sure i can, but sheeping is scummy, or starting wagon like that without stating a reason, and next time it might be wagon on you after naked vote

This reads to me like you have a legitimate reason to scumread Alisae, but you're letting him off the hook.

Next time there might be a wagon? Why not push for it this time? You're vote may be there, but I don't get the feeling from your posts that your that interested in pressuring him.

i'm in no rush, we just started, also i know Alisae isn't experienced very much in fm, hence my slower approach. And that about wagon next time was more in general, i didn't mean just this game

[Ramcius]

Actual real vote time.

VOTE: Ramcius

While it's not alone worth voting for, I've never really liked plays type disclaimers like the one in 122. They always read more like preemptive excuse making.

Moving along, I don't really like 266 or 270 either. They both have this wishy washy tone in that they aren't outright calling Alisae scum, but they are implying it in a way that would be easy to back out of. And while his vote is on Alisae it's essentially an RVS vote from waaay back, so, again, it's an almost kinda scumread that's easy to back out of.

well, me and Alisae have still ongoing game together, so till it's not ended, i can't explain my actions, but why you think i can't have genuine feel on Alisae to be scum?

Lol basing my meta off of one game. Cute.

what i can see, i'm very observative person

as on serious note, i consider everyone of you to be a scum, until proven otherwise, with rope preferably Pep, Gamma and Alisae should already know that my preference

ooo I like how you play, at least this part!

always on the potential scumlist until convinced (or, as you say, preferably proven by rope) otherwise

fuck ropes though

I like axes

I'm doing lynches with AXES from now on

i like this idea, i named myself "maniac with an bloody axe" in a past for a reason

[Ramcius]

Ram I have 2 completed games so far.
Go metadive them if you want.

nah, i'm good, i have 2 weeks here to read you more, btw, why you worry about my RVS vote from way back, but ignore others after you?

[Ramcius]

What others?

hm, i dunno, people voting you maybe?

[Ramcius]

I haven't been for the record. Also a VC would help.

so, why you decided defend against me then? I haven't made a case or anything against you

[Ramcius]

no I haven't been ignoring them I defended myself against them last I checked.
Moreso I'm defending myself against you right now because you're here.

VOTE: Alisae

2 pages back, you don't care for naked vote on you, why?

[Ramcius]

I've been attacking Yoshi instead of defending myself against him.

hm, nope, you attacked him before vote, after vote you just coming after me, you ignored that vote, do i make you frustrated again? If so, good then

[Ramcius]

oh that vote. Came off as OMGUS to me.
TBH I didn't see it.

exactly, you care me more than OMGUS vote from your suspect, which is weird

[Ramcius]

Huh?

You just proved your push against Yoshi is fake, you ignored his OMGUS vote, even when i pointed out, you was just like "meh" and you scared by my RVS vote enough to go in all this fight with me despite i haven't gave any reasonable arguments to accuse you

[Ramcius]

Why are you playing so cautiously? Town tend to be more free spirited and carefree. Are you that paranoid of your actions this early?

why town suppose to be carefree? In my experience it's scum always play more loose, cause they know who are their buddies, so everyone else is good for lynch, while town have guess, and odds are not on their favor

[Ramcius]

Bc from experience, town don't care how they appear as they get to act genuinely.

It's not about how they look, but about being afraid to do mistake, which is understandable from town, especially when game just started and most tread is just pointless noise

[Ramcius]

I'm actually more conscious of making mistakes as scum since my play is tactical and precise as scum.

how scum can do mistake voting someone? Cause your point was Pep didn't voted person he called susp

[Ramcius]

I'm actually more conscious of making mistakes as scum since my play is tactical and precise as scum.

how scum can do mistake voting someone? Cause your point was Pep didn't voted person he called susp

It's hard to explain

Scum have to fabricate reads and bank on the town buying them. If town doesn't buy them, they get lynched. No fabrication occurs being town and imo planting votes as town is a lot easier.

Hope that helps?

Regardless I've seen no progression from this slot and his response to yoshi voting him whilst voting yoshi was p bad.

And why bad answer? Vote on Yoshi was RVS vote and i think even before Yoshi did anything much, on top Yoshi vote wasn't strong, he admitted himself

also, thx for basics, but i know how things works, and i see you as a trying find someone scummy just to have someone at bottom on your rainbow and you stretching Pep

[Ramcius]

Yoshi made some advancement from the time pep was voted by him. Pep hasn't genuinely advanced in his thought process and has focused more on the defense rather than the offense.

Look it's page 17 and one day into this game. I'm not gonna shove my opinion down my throat since, chances are, I'm wrong. But for now it's a place i want to vote. Don't agree with me? Fine. Want to vote me for it? Fine. But i stand by my opinion and if you don't believe me then that's your opinion.

I never said i don't believe you, i'm saying your reasoning is weak, as for voting, i don't like trow votes right or left, i prefer confront people directly, and if i find them scummy afterwards and there are other people who agree with me, i consider voting, keeping in mind i might have several scumreads at a time and i could vote only 1 at a time, so for now you can feel safe, i'm not gonna vote you

[Ramcius]

I'm actually more conscious of making mistakes as scum since my play is tactical and precise as scum.

Sure and your playstyle as town is just - "Lynch galore and hopefully we hit the jackpot"

Hope you are not implying that...

no, it's my playstyle lynch everybody till no one left to oppose me

[Ramcius]

I'm actually more conscious of making mistakes as scum since my play is tactical and precise as scum.

Sure and your playstyle as town is just - "Lynch galore and hopefully we hit the jackpot"

Hope you are not implying that...

no, it's my playstyle lynch everybody till no one left to oppose me

This kinda contradicts with the post you made just before the one I'm quoting...

i just referring to other game, i pushed Alisae and Acc most to their death

[Ramcius]

Transcend I'd town lol

why he's town?

[Ramcius]

i thought we done with fakeclaiming part of game and we in serious mode already

[Ramcius]

Don't really care wether I'm on your good side or not, as long as you are willing to cooperate with the rest to have a good discussion and

ultimately achieving our alignment's goal.

???????????

You know I never talk from a town perspective.

Not the problem here.
How do you know you two are the same alignment?

I don't. That's why I talk from a neutral perspective. Also from his to an extent too. I doubt he thinks he is mafia, even if he is. So the way I present things is good for everybody.

wut? are you try claim some sort of 3p?

[Ramcius]

Ramicus, that's clearly just a colloquialism. Don't over-interpret.

i don't, i simply don't like the way he do it, if he's not some friendly/neutral towards town wincon 3p, he earned straight way on top of my scumlist

[Ramcius]

Ram, let me ask you this question then. Does his play seem different then the game that you two just finshed?

well, he wasn't in a rush to vote there too, but something feels different, and now this neutral POV is huge not town tell

[Ramcius]

2. Nah. Plus getting roasted by Pine is nothing new.
3. I think you implied that you two are the same alignment.
VOTE: Pep

Yep, your reads are bad. I'm not the same alignment with him. He put me on the bottom of his reads ffs.

How you know you not same alignment? Assuming you town, cause town don't know each other, and putting you on bottom on readlist not makes him scum

[Ramcius]

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

[Ramcius]

2. Nah. Plus getting roasted by Pine is nothing new.
3. I think you implied that you two are the same alignment.
VOTE: Pep

Yep, your reads are bad. I'm not the same alignment with him. He put me on the bottom of his reads ffs.

How you know you not same alignment? Assuming you town, cause town don't know each other, and putting you on bottom on readlist not makes him scum

I never implied that we weren't. I said that I don't like him. And I'm talking from a netrial perspective cu that's the way I talk.

you just quoted your words that you not same alignment with him, how you know?

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

Mostly gut for now, but your way of playing has changed much more drastically then me. You were much more active and aggressive.

really? i already pushed Alisae a bit, Trrancended later, now i'm pushing you, and it's not micro newbie game, i can't go guns blazing and expect everyone follow my lead, and town have no reason to talk from neutral POV, they have majority, they decide who lives and dies every day, it's mafia and 3p have try compromises, and you not giving me town vibes at all now

[Ramcius]

Ok, A little but of misunderstanding. From his PoV I'm not the same alignment as him. He wouldn't put me in there exept if you want to interprete it as some WIFOM.

As I said gut feeling. I don't say you don't do anything. I'm saying you have changed on a tactical level. As you saw in the Newbie game your attitude and aggression almost got big results. That is why in the end you were killed. Here you seem fake. This is yet to be confrimed, but it is there.

So, you saying he's scum? Why it can't be TvT?

Me being aggressive or not is NAI, as for here, game isn't so slow as was there, we have action going on, so no need my inteference and people are much more skilled, so not so much of slips to call people out like was there.

[Ramcius]

BTW just saying this now, Pep is garenteed to be lynchbait.

Can see this now

People do tend to use me as lynch bait.

you should learn to be lynchproof instead

[Ramcius]

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

[Ramcius]

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

Are you smart?

no, i'm not

[Ramcius]

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

Really? I thought it was that scum love to push lynchbait wagons.

i'm not saying no scum will be on lynchbait wagon, but now we need 10 to lynch, so will be like 2-3 scum in big wagon, so odds aren't that good to find scum this way

[Ramcius]

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

he try get scumslip from me, he can try, i get more about him this way

[Ramcius]

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

he try get scumslip from me, he can try, i get more about him this way

I wasn't asking you but ok.
Why did you answer for Pep?
I have another question to ask you about this response, but I'll ask that after Pep has responded.

i answered, cause i have nothing to hide, and i want see his next move

[Ramcius]

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

Are you smart?

no, i'm not

So you are dumb scum?

sometimes, sadly not this time

[Ramcius]

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

he try get scumslip from me, he can try, i get more about him this way

I wasn't asking you but ok.
Why did you answer for Pep?
I have another question to ask you about this response, but I'll ask that after Pep has responded.

i answered, cause i have nothing to hide, and i want see his next move

Okay Ram, next question.
Why did you give the response that you did? To me it seems like you want someone to attempt to discredit your slot.

Also Yoshi why are you scumreading me again?

Attempt? Pep already try and i don't mind for little mind game

[Ramcius]

Hi

I'm matt

you look familiar, did we met before somewhere?

[Ramcius]

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

[Ramcius]

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

I didn't ask you if you were scum. I asked if you were smart. I did ask if you are a bad scum however. Your inability to see beyond what a question may seem question is quite interesting. You read everything I ask you off as trying to make you scumslip. This just confirms that you don't want people to get you to scumslip. I belive that if you were town you wouldn't react the way you did.

I said "smart scum" in my post to Alisae, you right after asked if i'm smart, i can make connection here easily, considering you accused me before, i did assumption you want me to scumslip to give reason for push on me, your "you not so aggressive like in other game" is by far too weak and NAI to push for my lynch. Also, your belief on my town reaction is based on my meta from other game?

[Ramcius]

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

Maybe it's your questions are bad, not my answers? If someone ask me in serious manner, i answer serious, but you try provoke me, so why you expect serious answers? If you have something against me, we can discuss, but Jaack and Lemon Tree look more serious than yours "you not so aggressive" and obvious provoke attempts

[Ramcius]

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

Maybe it's your questions are bad, not my answers? If someone ask me in serious manner, i answer serious, but you try provoke me, so why you expect serious answers? If you have something against me, we can discuss, but Jaack and Lemon Tree look more serious than yours "you not so aggressive" and obvious provoke attempts

Maybe, but I belive my question got results. For me. Provocative questions are made solely for the reaction and the overall tone of the answer. Those questions are not really made for the answer as words, but as an inside to the questioned person's thinking hence a posible inside to alignment.

Your problem is assumption town always try cooperate with you there, while scum try avoid answer questions, you have put uch more efforts to read me that ask couple provocative questions

[Ramcius]

Do setups like this usually hit majority on D1? Anyway I hard claim not mafia. Remove your lynches.

how you know scums are mafia? Maybe it's werewolfs or something, also that not clear you from being 3p

[Ramcius]

do you trust me?

if you stop spamming useless nonsense, you might get more credibility on your reads

[Ramcius]

gerryoat is town

Show me one post in his Iso that should convice me he is town.

Show me one post thst should convince us that Ram is town den.

Why you so biased on me? Cause this time i'm not on your side and i'm questioning your actions?

[Ramcius]

gerryoat is town

Show me one post in his Iso that should convice me he is town.

Show me one post thst should convince us that Ram is town den.

Why you so biased on me? Cause this time i'm not on your side and i'm questioning your actions?

No I wanna see what makes him TR you because I don't. Are you picking on me for everything now?

no, only when i see my name, cause in other post you said he's TRs reads are bad, plurality, in post i quoted you question only read on me, what happened to other TR reads?

[Ramcius]

gerryoat is town

Show me one post in his Iso that should convice me he is town.

Show me one post thst should convince us that Ram is town den.

Why you so biased on me? Cause this time i'm not on your side and i'm questioning your actions?

No I wanna see what makes him TR you because I don't. Are you picking on me for everything now?

no, only when i see my name, cause in other post you said he's TRs reads are bad, plurality, in post i quoted you question only read on me, what happened to other TR reads?

I find hem bad, cuz basically all the people I'm not liking atm are there.

I ask first about you, then if I find a need I will ask about some of the other too ^^

You say all the people, but i asking why you excluded me in post i originally quoted?

[Ramcius]

Elaborate please.

i try, i think i clearly asked why you excluded me from other TRs in Manuel's list, while you stated in previous post you disagree with more than 1 TR, and you said that later answering to me too, but yet you don't see me as town stronger than others, what elaboration you expect from me, if you can't answer simple question to continue our discussion?

P-edit: again, i'm not aggressive enough fine, quick recap to other game - i was same like here at start till Charloux called me out for "role fishing", cause i asked if we don't get rolelist in newbie game, and he did it in quite a rude manner, so my answer was in similar aggressive manner, then Nyd called me out for being aggressive, and we had some quarrel, later was your and Alisae fight in which i skipped till he tried force me join your wagon without giving any good reason to do that, but that was going to end of D1, add on top of that people being newbies and not seeing bad plays, which made me frustrated, now compare all to this game, no one approached me in rude manner, game progressing (at least i'm fine with game progression), so i don't feel need to interfere, i already did some interactions, not as aggressive like in there, but i called out people for things i didn't liked, so if you have something more against me, we can discuss, cause it was your words yesterday, that meta can't be main thing to judge, especially when we talking 2 very different games. Hope that answered all your questions on this matter and we won't come back again to it

[Ramcius]

Ramcius - Still don't like his Alisae read from earlier. 789 feels like overly combatitve scum. He's also just been camping out on the alisae wagon but failing to put any effort into pushing it (despite being around and pushing other players). Feels like scum who can't come up with a good excuse to move their vote.

I'm not overly combative, i'm way too calm considering my other game, from which Pep is judging me

UNVOTE: Alisae

Better now? I can put vote on anyone i want, i just don't see reason trowing votes so early in day, when we start discussing lynch, i will think where to put my vote

[Ramcius]

I'm not overly combative, i'm way too calm considering my other game, from which Pep is judging me

UNVOTE: Alisae

Better now? I can put vote on anyone i want, i just don't see reason trowing votes so early in day, when we start discussing lynch, i will think where to put my vote

Changing your vote after being called out on it does not make things better.

I'm not changing vote, i take it away, it makes no difference for me if it's on Alisae or nowhere, but you had problem with my vote being on him, so i took away

[Ramcius]

This is where i am at right now.
Scum:
gerryoat, Gamma Emerald, Pepchoninga

Let me break down why manuel might be scum

1.) his first scumread is me, and I was a polerazing slot this so far because of the fact i drew a lot of attention from the fake shot thing (that wasnt even my idea lol). I think he saw this as an opportunity to out a safe SR on me. Since there was just a recent spotlight on me, i'm a safe first scumread.

2.) His second scumread is Gamma, who hasnt talked in 2 days I believe. This is another safe scumread because not only is he not here to defend himself, but he can just say he thought that gamma is lurking right now. Since this is a the lurker, it makes it a good middle scumread.

3.) His third scumread is Pep. Who is looking more and more like lynchbait. If you see the amount of pressure and votes that have been piling up on pep, I think that he thought this was a safe last scumread just to throw in at the end, because since others scumread him, he won't be questioned much on it.

All in all, i think these scumreads are artificially and carefully crafted as scum.

VOTE: Manuel

pedit: fixed quote origin

someone tell me if they agree or not and why

dont ignore

if you insist,

1) i kinda agree with he's scumlist, you more null than hard SR to me, but i don't get town feeling from you
2) why exclude Gamma, cause he away? He left plenty posts to judge, and Manuel wasn't that active in this tread, so i don't see any reason to not put Gamma in list just because he not active now
3) i think i did enough comments on him

i'm not going judge if it's genuine or scum setting up, you can put like Yoshi, Alisae, Iron in that list and will be no difference, we have too many lynchbaity people to make assumptions like that

[Ramcius]

Elaborate please.

i try, i think i clearly asked why you excluded me from other TRs in Manuel's list, while you stated in previous post you disagree with more than 1 TR, and you said that later answering to me too, but yet you don't see me as town stronger than others, what elaboration you expect from me, if you can't answer simple question to continue our discussion?

P-edit: again, i'm not aggressive enough fine, quick recap to other game - i was same like here at start till Charloux called me out for "role fishing", cause i asked if we don't get rolelist in newbie game, and he did it in quite a rude manner, so my answer was in similar aggressive manner, then Nyd called me out for being aggressive, and we had some quarrel, later was your and Alisae fight in which i skipped till he tried force me join your wagon without giving any good reason to do that, but that was going to end of D1, add on top of that people being newbies and not seeing bad plays, which made me frustrated, now compare all to this game, no one approached me in rude manner, game progressing (at least i'm fine with game progression), so i don't feel need to interfere, i already did some interactions, not as aggressive like in there, but i called out people for things i didn't liked, so if you have something more against me, we can discuss, cause it was your words yesterday, that meta can't be main thing to judge, especially when we talking 2 very different games. Hope that answered all your questions on this matter and we won't come back again to it

You make zero sence. I already had established that I don't like you and with time you became a stronger SR. What you are curently asking just doesn't seem to be of actual meaning and now you keep asking questions for the sake of asking them.

Also lol, you basically sum up your last game and so what? Does this really matter here? We can take it into account (like me for example), but you are using it as a full blown argument. Very BAD.

No, Pep, it's you using my lack of aggressiveness here as your argument to SR me, i explained you why i was aggressive there, and why i'm not that aggressive here

I'm not overly combative, i'm way too calm considering my other game, from which Pep is judging me

UNVOTE: Alisae

Better now? I can put vote on anyone i want, i just don't see reason trowing votes so early in day, when we start discussing lynch, i will think where to put my vote

Changing your vote after being called out on it does not make things better.

I'm not changing vote, i take it away, it makes no difference for me if it's on Alisae or nowhere, but you had problem with my vote being on him, so i took away

Lol yes, you take your vote when being called up and the pressure has started and this is bad. Your reasoning for the lynch as a whole was iffy, and the unvote just confirms how you seem to be panicking.

VOTE: Ramicius

So, taking away RVS vote, when someone use it as a reason so SR me is bad?

[Ramcius]

I'm not changing vote, i take it away, it makes no difference for me if it's on Alisae or nowhere, but you had problem with my vote being on him, so i took away

The first part of this is pointless semantics. The second part is a major factor contributing to my scumread. You don't appear to care all that much about your vote, despite that being, you know, the primary currency of the day game, and really the game in general for town.

No, it's not semantics, taking vote away means i don't put in anywhere else, so i don't join/start any wagon

No, i don't care for voting someone at this point, we not going lynch anyone anytime soon, and wagon can come and go in matter of hours, so why should i care for vote? I value much more discussing and bringing up plays i find scummy or anti-town early in day

[Ramcius]

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

VOTE: Ramcius

Obviously, the strikeout was meant to convey a willingness to vote as above.

Also, he's focusing way to much on splitting hairs in defending himself, and not enough on finding scum. Falsely accused Town explains themselves, then moves on to finding scum. They don't hyperfocus like this. Or shouldn't, at least.

if i will call you scum for sheeping my wagon, does that counts as finding scums?

[Ramcius]

No, it's not semantics, taking vote away means i don't put in anywhere else, so i don't join/start any wagon

No, i don't care for voting someone at this point, we not going lynch anyone anytime soon, and wagon can come and go in matter of hours, so why should i care for vote? I value much more discussing and bringing up plays i find scummy or anti-town early in day

Okay I'll put it this way. There is no real difference to me where your vote ended up. Unvoting Alisae to appease me is what bothered me. And I think I was pretty clear about it.

Furthermore, I don't think you really believe this 'who cares who I vote thing' and are just doubling down on it because it's the only explaination you can come up with. Besides, there is evidence to support you do think it matters who you're voting.

First the fact that you invited alisae as opposed to just telling me your disinterest in voting. Your first move was to try and appease me, not to explain yourself.

Second is this very post I am quoting. You don't want to join or start a wagon. Which means you are at least recognizing the importance of your vote, making you accountable for the alisae vote camping.

I'm pretty confident in my vote now thanks to your reaction.

I thought i made it clear that i took my vote away to appease you, and no, i don't see importance in my vote, i simply don't have 1 strong SR and don't want change my vote every time someone else ends up on top of my list, which is pretty dynamic

[Ramcius]

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

VOTE: Ramcius

Obviously, the strikeout was meant to convey a willingness to vote as above.

Also, he's focusing way to much on splitting hairs in defending himself, and not enough on finding scum. Falsely accused Town explains themselves, then moves on to finding scum. They don't hyperfocus like this. Or shouldn't, at least.

if i will call you scum for sheeping my wagon, does that counts as finding scums?

I was in you before it was cool, scrub. I just forgot to actually use vote tags.

you mean this?

Ramicus, that's clearly just a colloquialism. Don't over-interpret.

or

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

anyway, you are a sheep, a lurker, and probably a scum, so deal with it

[Ramcius]

I'm actually none of the above. Since I realized the thread was open a few pages ago, I've been engaged. 811 was clearly intent to vote, when you had I think two other votes on you. In a Large, with original reasoning of my own, calling that 'sheeping' is pretty lol'able. Finally, my role PM begs to differ.

Also, that's some pretty hardcore OMGUS.

PEdit: Transcend, show your work.

Exactly, vague intent, waiting if my wagon gets traction, and from your ISO i didn't see you actually trying find scum, just some meaningless posts before jumping my wagon, do i only your scumread? And you are sheep for joining wagon with ridiculous reasoning, cause if you read topic, you should've noticed me engaging in discussion and not just defending myself

@Pep, i'm aggressive enough already?

[Ramcius]

The problem is that his reaction to a handful of votes is super duper scumtastic.

No, my reactions is directed at your vote, Alisae decided to push on me, not much scared of him, Pep got opportunity join wagon on me, and Jaack had me SR for my Alisae accusation from RVS, nothing i couldn't anticipate, but you joining my wagon and telling i'm not try find scums was little outrageous

[Ramcius]

Ram:

Who is mafia

Gamma's game very different from what i saw him as a town, i don't like gerry play, Pep with his neutral stance and i don't feel him to try scumhunt, Alisae i still don't like, i was amazed how he told he don't remember my playstyle, when 2 days ago called me bullheaded for my aggressive playstyle in other game, also fake claim at start of game, Peregrine i see calling people scums, but no reasonings, no pushing, and very few posts in general, i know there are other people with little content, but i won't judge them till they post more

[Ramcius]

Ram:

Who is mafia

Gamma's game very different from what i saw him as a town, i don't like gerry play, Pep with his neutral stance and i don't feel him to try scumhunt, Alisae i still don't like, i was amazed how he told he don't remember my playstyle, when 2 days ago called me bullheaded for my aggressive playstyle in other game, also fake claim at start of game, Peregrine i see calling people scums, but no reasonings, no pushing, and very few posts in general, i know there are other people with little content, but i won't judge them till they post more

How long have you had these reads?

And how much do you rely on meta?

And I don't agree that Pep is neutral. He started off weird and awkward, I'll give you that, but now I feel he's proactively trying to solve the game and getting his hands really dirty.

What are your opinions on say, ConManMick and Manuel87?

I don't say he's neutral, but he try highlight his neutral POV, which isn't town sign, and i already called him out for it, as did other people

I not rely too much on meta, that's why i tried hold my reads for myself, there are lot people posting little and few people inflate post count

Manuel i feel genuine (not cause he TR me ), Mick i want more posts to make opinion

[Ramcius]

Pep, i will mock you as much as i want, cause you making clown of yourself and my patience have limits, and keep in mind - as long as i mock you, i'm not going hard after you

P-edit: post inflating still here, just look at Pep, almost 5 posts in a row in this page, other pages similar

Manuel gave big case on gerry, his entrance and interaction with you looks towny, vote on Pep justified, Pep tried provoke him and got what deserved

[Ramcius]

i don't say it's alignment indicative, i'm saying it makes harder read game and make it look bigger than it's actually is

[Ramcius]

Pep, i will mock you as much as i want, cause you making clown of yourself and my patience have limits, and keep in mind - as long as i mock you, i'm not going hard after you

P-edit: post inflating still here, just look at Pep, almost 5 posts in a row in this page, other pages similar

Manuel gave big case on gerry, his entrance and interaction with you looks towny, vote on Pep justified, Pep tried provoke him and got what deserved

This post is just comming from a scum. Bad one.

Use the english language to explain why.

He makes it look like mocking someone constantly is a) a good townish thing...b) he is implying I should be grateful that he isn't going full on guns and blazers on me.

Also, how is me making 5 posts one after the other a bad thing? I have this to comment on when I catch up and I do. Manuel has contributed far less than what I've done to move the discussion forward. He is mostly lynching me for reasons that other gave.

And this is why you deserve rope

a) go back and read your latest posts full "lol" and "bad", sounds like hardcore mocking, isn't it? Yet you make sound like mocking is scum sign
b) ofc you should, but if you want hard way, let's do it

explain me your neutral POV, cause neutral means you stand between 2 or more faction or whatever you want call it, so 1 is town, what are other(s), cause you clearly said to me you don't try look game from town POV, when i called you on that, and that was start of your tunnel towards me

i explained why, we have 35 pages already, it makes harder to read game, makes harder read your ISO

When i said Manuel did more than you? I said i feel Manuel posts genuine, while your provocative and vague posts often don't make any sense as town

[Ramcius]

Manny/Mick probably separate factions. I doubt they put two of their eggs on one obv town lynch.

i would like hear reasoning why gerry is obv town? All i see from him is being jester and provocative

[Ramcius]

Big wall of text in spoiler, so consider yourself warned

Spoiler:

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

that's where Pep came after me, till this he was on my side more or less, but when i called him out for his neutral POV, he said that

***

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

Mostly gut for now, but your way of playing has changed much more drastically then me. You were much more active and aggressive.

meta

2. Nah. Plus getting roasted by Pine is nothing new.
3. I think you implied that you two are the same alignment.
VOTE: Pep

Yep, your reads are bad. I'm not the same alignment with him. He put me on the bottom of his reads ffs.

How you know you not same alignment? Assuming you town, cause town don't know each other, and putting you on bottom on readlist not makes him scum

I never implied that we weren't. I said that I don't like him. And I'm talking from a netrial perspective cu that's the way I talk.

you just quoted your words that you not same alignment with him, how you know?

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

Mostly gut for now, but your way of playing has changed much more drastically then me. You were much more active and aggressive.

really? i already pushed Alisae a bit, Trrancended later, now i'm pushing you, and it's not micro newbie game, i can't go guns blazing and expect everyone follow my lead, and town have no reason to talk from neutral POV, they have majority, they decide who lives and dies every day, it's mafia and 3p have try compromises, and you not giving me town vibes at all now

Ok, A little but of misunderstanding. From his PoV I'm not the same alignment as him. He wouldn't put me in there exept if you want to interprete it as some WIFOM.

As I said gut feeling. I don't say you don't do anything. I'm saying you have changed on a tactical level. As you saw in the Newbie game your attitude and aggression almost got big results. That is why in the end you were killed. Here you seem fake. This is yet to be confrimed, but it is there.

again meta, "i changed on tactical level"

Gerry thoughts on Pep?
In my head I keep on flipfloping from misunderstood townie because of his overall play to scum because he attempted to either discredit Ram's slot or get Ram to scumclaim.

BTW Pep about this, what answer were you expecting from town!Ram? What answer were you expecting form scum!Ram. Also you never answered this:

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Getting the quotes you wanted now.

Nothing could really be a good question from him. Tho in a situation like this I would've expected a more serious answer with power behind it from a town!Ram then thenlight hearted Ram I got that puts smiles after almost every post. It is gut to some extent but pretty strong one too.

meta

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

I didn't ask you if you were scum. I asked if you were smart. I did ask if you are a bad scum however. Your inability to see beyond what a question may seem question is quite interesting. You read everything I ask you off as trying to make you scumslip. This just confirms that you don't want people to get you to scumslip. I belive that if you were town you wouldn't react the way you did.

another example of Pep using other game to make expectations on my answers, or in short, yes, meta

The entire segment with me is exactly why I scumread him and if you are town and you belive he is town you should be trying to explain exactly why, like the way you explained your gerry read.

A scumread is very different from a townread. My read on him might also be influenced by my scumread on you though. If i had to name a reason i would say gut. His posts just come of genuine to me.
He has a certain aggression that doesnt feel forced.

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

Maybe it's your questions are bad, not my answers? If someone ask me in serious manner, i answer serious, but you try provoke me, so why you expect serious answers? If you have something against me, we can discuss, but Jaack and Lemon Tree look more serious than yours "you not so aggressive" and obvious provoke attempts

That was the post i started townreading him.

Lol, the thing is he isn't aggressive. He is just calm and puts smilies everywere. He has also tunneled me for a long time on somethings that I answered more then enough times and now he is going on the same route.

Also the post you quoted is bad. I don't see any town in that post tho. He is clearly trying to discredit me when his push is not a much stronger one either.

meta

But i think you should vote Mick or Manny today.

Pedit: yeah but town (especially noob town) tend to flail under pressure and tend to demotivate themselves from solving the game as they don't know how to adequately respond to pressure.

He isn't just falling under pressure. He is still trying to mock me and in some cases tryis to keep that smilely attitude. This is not town. Or it shouldn't be.

Also Pine made a great point (I belive it was him lol). He is too focused on blindly defending himself and not trying to actually prove that we are wrong. You know the perfect quote for here is "actions speak louder then words"

my smiley attitude is bad, cause i wasn't so in other game, and it's not towny (seems loling is towny on other hand)

and now Pep opinion on using meta

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

I didn't ask you if you were scum. I asked if you were smart. I did ask if you are a bad scum however. Your inability to see beyond what a question may seem question is quite interesting. You read everything I ask you off as trying to make you scumslip. This just confirms that you don't want people to get you to scumslip. I belive that if you were town you wouldn't react the way you did.

I said "smart scum" in my post to Alisae, you right after asked if i'm smart, i can make connection here easily, considering you accused me before, i did assumption you want me to scumslip to give reason for push on me, your "you not so aggressive like in other game" is by far too weak and NAI to push for my lynch. Also, your belief on my town reaction is based on my meta from other game?

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

i still waiting solid arguments from him

I really wish you'd use your vote though

Even if it's on me, i like reading progression through the game and deciding if it's genuine or not.

My vote will come when I'm comfortable enough with it.

can i hear arguments that make you comfortable enough to vote me?

I'm not sure I like how pepcho has thrown a decent amount of shade around since coming under scrutiny.

Which is to say, I don't like it but in kinda agree with his point in 430, and I don't particularly like manuel's response to it.

Understandable. I do throw shade sometimes unintentionally since this is mostly my personality when I point out things I don't like. I do make cases and yes I do scumhunt and this will be shown when I get a good feeling about a SR.

i find this interesting, he very defensive here, he admit he trow shade unintentionally, and he does scumhunt, but then we have

Rules number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of mafia - fake day vig shots are fake.

I'm also finding it hard to care too much about this gerry/ConManMick thing. So let's go back in time to interesting stuff.

I'm not sure I like how pepcho has thrown a decent amount of shade around since coming under scrutiny.

Which is to say, I don't like it but in kinda agree with his point in 430, and I don't particularly like manuel's response to it.

Understandable. I do throw shade sometimes unintentionally since this is mostly my personality when I point out things I don't like. I do make cases and yes I do scumhunt and this will be shown when I get a good feeling about a SR.

I don't really like this response the more I think about it. I feel like pepcho is trying too hard to get on my good side. I gave him a little breathing room and he just straight up agrees with my scumfeels about him.

It's to buttery for my tastes. I'd still prefer a Ramcius wagon, but this is fine too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Focus on a better wagon. If you think throwing shade is always scummy then you are in a big misunderstanding...also you have never played with -Grey-

Don't really care wether I'm on your good side or not, as long as you are willing to cooperate with the rest to have a good discussion and ultimately achieving our alignment's goal.

Pep telling trowing shade isn't scummy, dunno for others, but for me trowing shade "is" scummy

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

Are you smart?

no, i'm not

So you are dumb scum?

perfect example of Pep trowing shade, it's doesn't matter what i would answer, he would called me scum

Scumpile: Pepchoninga, Alisae, ConManMick, kuror0
Townreads: Transcend, gerryoat

Here's where I'm at for the moment.
I don't like the way Mick and kuror0 started reacting to gerryoat's reaction to being shot at all. I think they're intimidated by Transcend and his read on gerry.

Hmmm, why do you TR Trans? What did you make of his reads?

Don't you find his actions rather inconsistent?

Answered already. Show me where you find his actions inconsistent?

I never said I find his actions inconsistent. I asked if you do.

And could you point your answer? I may have missed it, or not given it enough though, or somehow forgotten it.

again, another attempt to trow shade on Trans for scumreading Pep, he inclined Yoshi should see Trans inconsistent, while Pep don't find Trans inconsistent

Ughh, I don't like how you try to compliment Trans and think this is gonna get you off his SRs

I actually thought about saying something else because ppl could view it as AtE but seeing who tries to throw shade at me for stating my honest opinion gives me more information so thanks for that.
Oh and i dont know how much selfesteem you have but personally i wouldnt compliment someone if i didnt mean it just to win a mafiagame.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

I'm sorry but this makes zero sense.

Pep tried trown shade on Manuel for TR Trans, while Trans SR Manuel, then Manuel called Pep out for that, and Pep just tried shake it off without trying to get to bottom of it

Pep, welcome on receiving end of my aggression, i really hoped i could have more civil game this time

[Ramcius]

Big wall of text in spoiler, so consider yourself warned

Spoiler:

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

that's where Pep came after me, till this he was on my side more or less, but when i called him out for his neutral POV, he said that

***

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

Mostly gut for now, but your way of playing has changed much more drastically then me. You were much more active and aggressive.

meta

2. Nah. Plus getting roasted by Pine is nothing new.
3. I think you implied that you two are the same alignment.
VOTE: Pep

Yep, your reads are bad. I'm not the same alignment with him. He put me on the bottom of his reads ffs.

How you know you not same alignment? Assuming you town, cause town don't know each other, and putting you on bottom on readlist not makes him scum

I never implied that we weren't. I said that I don't like him. And I'm talking from a netrial perspective cu that's the way I talk.

you just quoted your words that you not same alignment with him, how you know?

Um, I wasn't really asking you that question but ok.
Describe to me your throught process currently.
And I wouldn't be so sure if it's right since we don't exactly have any flips yet.
With that said, also if you provide me with reads that'll be cool.

I don't exactly have finished reads. I dislike Trans and Ram.

why you don't like me? Cause i question you this time?

Mostly gut for now, but your way of playing has changed much more drastically then me. You were much more active and aggressive.

really? i already pushed Alisae a bit, Trrancended later, now i'm pushing you, and it's not micro newbie game, i can't go guns blazing and expect everyone follow my lead, and town have no reason to talk from neutral POV, they have majority, they decide who lives and dies every day, it's mafia and 3p have try compromises, and you not giving me town vibes at all now

Ok, A little but of misunderstanding. From his PoV I'm not the same alignment as him. He wouldn't put me in there exept if you want to interprete it as some WIFOM.

As I said gut feeling. I don't say you don't do anything. I'm saying you have changed on a tactical level. As you saw in the Newbie game your attitude and aggression almost got big results. That is why in the end you were killed. Here you seem fake. This is yet to be confrimed, but it is there.

again meta, "i changed on tactical level"

Gerry thoughts on Pep?
In my head I keep on flipfloping from misunderstood townie because of his overall play to scum because he attempted to either discredit Ram's slot or get Ram to scumclaim.

BTW Pep about this, what answer were you expecting from town!Ram? What answer were you expecting form scum!Ram. Also you never answered this:

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Getting the quotes you wanted now.

Nothing could really be a good question from him. Tho in a situation like this I would've expected a more serious answer with power behind it from a town!Ram then thenlight hearted Ram I got that puts smiles after almost every post. It is gut to some extent but pretty strong one too.

meta

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

I didn't ask you if you were scum. I asked if you were smart. I did ask if you are a bad scum however. Your inability to see beyond what a question may seem question is quite interesting. You read everything I ask you off as trying to make you scumslip. This just confirms that you don't want people to get you to scumslip. I belive that if you were town you wouldn't react the way you did.

another example of Pep using other game to make expectations on my answers, or in short, yes, meta

The entire segment with me is exactly why I scumread him and if you are town and you belive he is town you should be trying to explain exactly why, like the way you explained your gerry read.

A scumread is very different from a townread. My read on him might also be influenced by my scumread on you though. If i had to name a reason i would say gut. His posts just come of genuine to me.
He has a certain aggression that doesnt feel forced.

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

Maybe it's your questions are bad, not my answers? If someone ask me in serious manner, i answer serious, but you try provoke me, so why you expect serious answers? If you have something against me, we can discuss, but Jaack and Lemon Tree look more serious than yours "you not so aggressive" and obvious provoke attempts

That was the post i started townreading him.

Lol, the thing is he isn't aggressive. He is just calm and puts smilies everywere. He has also tunneled me for a long time on somethings that I answered more then enough times and now he is going on the same route.

Also the post you quoted is bad. I don't see any town in that post tho. He is clearly trying to discredit me when his push is not a much stronger one either.

meta

But i think you should vote Mick or Manny today.

Pedit: yeah but town (especially noob town) tend to flail under pressure and tend to demotivate themselves from solving the game as they don't know how to adequately respond to pressure.

He isn't just falling under pressure. He is still trying to mock me and in some cases tryis to keep that smilely attitude. This is not town. Or it shouldn't be.

Also Pine made a great point (I belive it was him lol). He is too focused on blindly defending himself and not trying to actually prove that we are wrong. You know the perfect quote for here is "actions speak louder then words"

my smiley attitude is bad, cause i wasn't so in other game, and it's not towny (seems loling is towny on other hand)

and now Pep opinion on using meta

Pep what does that response tell you about Ramcius?
Why did you ask it in the first place?

Nothing good unfortunately.

And I did because I wanna see the response. It's an easy question and the answer says alot. The fact that he think I wanted to get him to make a scum slip is just confirming that he is trying to hard.

Why is that response not good?

Not good may be going to far. Not satisfying for the way I read the slot -more like it.

you literally asked me if i'm scum, what answer you expected? "oh, you got me, i'm surrender"?

I didn't ask you if you were scum. I asked if you were smart. I did ask if you are a bad scum however. Your inability to see beyond what a question may seem question is quite interesting. You read everything I ask you off as trying to make you scumslip. This just confirms that you don't want people to get you to scumslip. I belive that if you were town you wouldn't react the way you did.

I said "smart scum" in my post to Alisae, you right after asked if i'm smart, i can make connection here easily, considering you accused me before, i did assumption you want me to scumslip to give reason for push on me, your "you not so aggressive like in other game" is by far too weak and NAI to push for my lynch. Also, your belief on my town reaction is based on my meta from other game?

To some extent yes, many people base meta on other games too. It should never be anything close to a leading factor tho. It is but a guideline for a better view on the player you at hand and helps with the analysis as you have an idea of how a person generally thinks. From then on tho, I'm pursuing in gaining more food on you, so I can form a read around this game and around solid arguments and not by gut and past game experience. I have stated what I have. I find you attitude disturbing and also your answeres not satisfying.

i still waiting solid arguments from him

I really wish you'd use your vote though

Even if it's on me, i like reading progression through the game and deciding if it's genuine or not.

My vote will come when I'm comfortable enough with it.

can i hear arguments that make you comfortable enough to vote me?

I'm not sure I like how pepcho has thrown a decent amount of shade around since coming under scrutiny.

Which is to say, I don't like it but in kinda agree with his point in 430, and I don't particularly like manuel's response to it.

Understandable. I do throw shade sometimes unintentionally since this is mostly my personality when I point out things I don't like. I do make cases and yes I do scumhunt and this will be shown when I get a good feeling about a SR.

i find this interesting, he very defensive here, he admit he trow shade unintentionally, and he does scumhunt, but then we have

Rules number 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 of mafia - fake day vig shots are fake.

I'm also finding it hard to care too much about this gerry/ConManMick thing. So let's go back in time to interesting stuff.

I'm not sure I like how pepcho has thrown a decent amount of shade around since coming under scrutiny.

Which is to say, I don't like it but in kinda agree with his point in 430, and I don't particularly like manuel's response to it.

Understandable. I do throw shade sometimes unintentionally since this is mostly my personality when I point out things I don't like. I do make cases and yes I do scumhunt and this will be shown when I get a good feeling about a SR.

I don't really like this response the more I think about it. I feel like pepcho is trying too hard to get on my good side. I gave him a little breathing room and he just straight up agrees with my scumfeels about him.

It's to buttery for my tastes. I'd still prefer a Ramcius wagon, but this is fine too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Pepchoninga

Focus on a better wagon. If you think throwing shade is always scummy then you are in a big misunderstanding...also you have never played with -Grey-

Don't really care wether I'm on your good side or not, as long as you are willing to cooperate with the rest to have a good discussion and ultimately achieving our alignment's goal.

Pep telling trowing shade isn't scummy, dunno for others, but for me trowing shade "is" scummy

Or Pep you can play like lynchbait and figure out who is the scum on your wagon.

or get lynched and don't know why, which is more likely, when try being lynchbait - smart scums avoid lynchbait wagons

Are you smart?

no, i'm not

So you are dumb scum?

perfect example of Pep trowing shade, it's doesn't matter what i would answer, he would called me scum

Scumpile: Pepchoninga, Alisae, ConManMick, kuror0
Townreads: Transcend, gerryoat

Here's where I'm at for the moment.
I don't like the way Mick and kuror0 started reacting to gerryoat's reaction to being shot at all. I think they're intimidated by Transcend and his read on gerry.

Hmmm, why do you TR Trans? What did you make of his reads?

Don't you find his actions rather inconsistent?

Answered already. Show me where you find his actions inconsistent?

I never said I find his actions inconsistent. I asked if you do.

And could you point your answer? I may have missed it, or not given it enough though, or somehow forgotten it.

again, another attempt to trow shade on Trans for scumreading Pep, he inclined Yoshi should see Trans inconsistent, while Pep don't find Trans inconsistent

Ughh, I don't like how you try to compliment Trans and think this is gonna get you off his SRs

I actually thought about saying something else because ppl could view it as AtE but seeing who tries to throw shade at me for stating my honest opinion gives me more information so thanks for that.
Oh and i dont know how much selfesteem you have but personally i wouldnt compliment someone if i didnt mean it just to win a mafiagame.
VOTE: Pepchoninga

I'm sorry but this makes zero sense.

Pep tried trown shade on Manuel for TR Trans, while Trans SR Manuel, then Manuel called Pep out for that, and Pep just tried shake it off without trying to get to bottom of it

Pep, welcome on receiving end of my aggression, i really hoped i could have more civil game this time

To everyone:

People please read this and here is the question I'm presenting: in the post that Ram made before the one thst I'm qurently talking about, he said that my posts "full of" "lol" and "bad" are scummy yet now the only real word I'm seeing in his aggressive post is "meta". It is a poor word choice since there is nothing wrong with meta. We base our beliefs on what is towny and what is scummy on meta. He is pointing out obvious stiff that in no way makes an actual argument against my case and in the end his goal is just to try and discredit.

Also he says I base my stuff on other games, when most of his reads are based on his newbie game or gut.

You should read it all over again, you called me out 5 times for not being same as in newbie game, and you explicitly several times said to base reads on meta is wrong, and i don't say your reads based on meta, i say your read on me based on meta

also, what about shade trowing? I quoted 3 examples of you doing so, and you telling shadowtrowing isn't scummy

Did i made your case on your meta? Only person i based on meta is Gamma, and even if i don't use meta, he did nothing, just bunch of useless spam, so yeah, i SR him not only for meta

Can you make your case against me in one post? I just want to see what you consider case against me, your ISO is way too big to search

And yes, loling and saying bad is very huge scum sign, cause you can't make anything useful, but have say something

And you so inconsistent, even if this post i quote, first you say we base our beliefs on meta, yet you say i'm scum for base my scumreads on meta and gut (which isn't true in most cases, does your read is based on your meta?)

[Ramcius]

Any claims so far or mostly useless chatter?

couple fake claims, nothing serious yet

[Ramcius]

Any claims so far or mostly useless chatter?

couple fake claims, nothing serious yet

What are the 2 leading wagons and why?

well, vote count up on this page, but no serious wagons (3 vote wagons i can't consider something important), cause we have quite a few slackers

[Ramcius]

VOTE: Conman
Well lets add to that wagon and see if something interesting happens then.

wrong wagon, he's on V/LA and haven't posted more than 2 days

[Ramcius]

Elena. Just vote manuel, you dont need to read anything

why not you? you could use more votes on your wagon

[Ramcius]

of course
UNVOTE:

You just did the universal maf signal.

But i'll forgive you if you vote manuel rn

What's the universal maf signal
I thought that was
"I claim traitor"

tell everyone you are town every chance you get, so vote gerry

[Ramcius]

VOTE: gerryoat

I really don't like this slot, and he jsut become more and more scummy with fluffing

[Ramcius]

You find fluff posting scummy?
I personally think it's NAI aslong as a bit of scum hunting is added.

When person do nothing to change scumread on him and just fluffing, yes, i find it scummy

[Ramcius]

Pep, you still not answered everything:

1) i asked about your neutral POV, since neutral mean you are representing more than 1 faction, so what are other(s)?
2) Why shadetrowing isn't scummy?
3) what reads i based on meta?

[Ramcius]

Why don't you like my slot before the "fluffing" please do tell

let's see, your lack of scumhunting, sure you tried call out Iron, but you gave up and let it slip from your hook without any reason, your shitposting, your attempts to shove that you are town to everyone throats, your case against Manuel looks really forced

[Ramcius]

@ Ram some of those literally coming a few hours ago or less. so WTF are you talking about when you say

let's see, your lack of scumhunting, sure you tried call out Iron, but you gave up and let it slip from your hook without any reason

telling someone need rope isn't pushing their lynch, it's fluff

[Ramcius]

UNVOTE:

good luck, i'm out of this shitfest

[Ramcius]

welp, we had gerry on SR from D1, i mean we by masons, anyway, gg