Large Normal 201 - House of Harmony - At The End(GAME OVER)

[Pine]

Oh, awesome. I completely missed that this started. Starting to catch up.

[Pine]

Hi Pine!
/me waves

Sup. Are you going to be intolerable this game?

[Pine]

Fair enough.

Tell me who to vote for.

[Pine]

Of course. I asked you so I could know which reads are nonsense.

[Pine]

Srsly, I'll read up in the morning. I don't have 22+ pages of dumpster diving in me right now.

PEdit: Nah, Alisae, I'm just teasing. Your input will be evaluated on its own merit.

[Pine]

Of course. I asked you so I could know which reads are nonsense.

GG...

I salute you.

I feel like the best way to describe the relationship between me is Pine is that I am the child and Pine is the father who wishes he left me infront of a church/orphanage in a basket.

That's funny. I was feeling the same, except that I'm the one doing the leaving, and it's a dumpster behind an organ-recycling facility.

[Pine]

You're right. I should have weighed the basket down with rocks and found a river.

Terminating off-topic conversation, pending review* of the actual game.

*Now with 125% more content!

[Pine]

Ramicus, that's clearly just a colloquialism. Don't over-interpret.

[Pine]

Hi

I'm matt

Me too!

[Pine]

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

[Pine]

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

VOTE: Ramcius

Obviously, the strikeout was meant to convey a willingness to vote as above.

Also, he's focusing way to much on splitting hairs in defending himself, and not enough on finding scum. Falsely accused Town explains themselves, then moves on to finding scum. They don't hyperfocus like this. Or shouldn't, at least.

[Pine]

I'm still only at the skimming-and-not-caring stage, but what I've seen of Ramcius isn't good.

Withholding a vote for now, I should at the very least ISO him and glance at a VC before I put down a vote.

I actually just did those things.

VOTE: Ramcius

Obviously, the strikeout was meant to convey a willingness to vote as above.

Also, he's focusing way to much on splitting hairs in defending himself, and not enough on finding scum. Falsely accused Town explains themselves, then moves on to finding scum. They don't hyperfocus like this. Or shouldn't, at least.

if i will call you scum for sheeping my wagon, does that counts as finding scums?

I was in you before it was cool, scrub. I just forgot to actually use vote tags.

[Pine]

On*

[Pine]

No, it's not semantics, taking vote away means i don't put in anywhere else, so i don't join/start any wagon

No, i don't care for voting someone at this point, we not going lynch anyone anytime soon, and wagon can come and go in matter of hours, so why should i care for vote? I value much more discussing and bringing up plays i find scummy or anti-town early in day

Okay I'll put it this way. There is no real difference to me where your vote ended up. Unvoting Alisae to appease me is what bothered me. And I think I was pretty clear about it.

Furthermore, I don't think you really believe this 'who cares who I vote thing' and are just doubling down on it because it's the only explaination you can come up with. Besides, there is evidence to support you do think it matters who you're voting.

First the fact that you invited alisae as opposed to just telling me your disinterest in voting. Your first move was to try and appease me, not to explain yourself.

Second is this very post I am quoting. You don't want to join or start a wagon. Which means you are at least recognizing the importance of your vote, making you accountable for the alisae vote camping.

I'm pretty confident in my vote now thanks to your reaction.

I thought i made it clear that i took my vote away to appease you, and no, i don't see importance in my vote, i simply don't have 1 strong SR and don't want change my vote every time someone else ends up on top of my list, which is pretty dynamic

Also, appeasement is scummy.

[Pine]

I'm actually none of the above. Since I realized the thread was open a few pages ago, I've been engaged. 811 was clearly intent to vote, when you had I think two other votes on you. In a Large, with original reasoning of my own, calling that 'sheeping' is pretty lol'able. Finally, my role PM begs to differ.

Also, that's some pretty hardcore OMGUS.

PEdit: Transcend, show your work.

[Pine]

[Pine]

I concur, that Mick vote is pretty terrible.

[Pine]

It was actually a mock directed at Ram.

[Pine]

Nope. Maybe tomorrow.

I'd like to lynch Ram. Why do you think he's Town?

[Pine]

The problem is that his reaction to a handful of votes is super duper scumtastic.

[Pine]

Crap, that's actually a good point. Hmm.

The problem is that scum does the same thing and I'm totally talking myself out of this because that means all this is NAI.

Shite.

Alright, but if he doesn't Town it up bit soon, I'll bring this back out.

VOTE: Mick

[Pine]

Hush, we've already moved on from you.

[Pine]

Alisae, are you Town this game?

[Pine]

Trying to decide. No worries, that was a Townish response.

I hereby declare the founding of a Townbloc. Transcend, Alisae, Pine.

[Pine]

Bloc. No K.

I don't have much of a read on you yet, Gerry, but complaining about not being in the club is not how one gets into the club.

[Pine]

Pine whats your opinion on the general gamestate. Like ya got any other reads?

It's D1. I try to be mostly casual D1. I tend to drill down a lot more after we've had a flip and peoples' positions have calcified a bit. I tend to pick up a lot more Townreads on D1 than I do SRs. I'll refer back to it as we move along.

[Pine]

O
Votecount after I finish my exam. Please bear with me.

NO

VOTECOUNT NOW

BAD MOD

NO COOKIE

But but... D:

[Pine]

btw guys im town.

r u triggered, manuel

This is a Townpost. Mocking a SR is delightful.

Gerry you can be part of our Townbloc.

Language.

Lame

935 was a scum claim btw

I concur.

Manny/Mick probably separate factions. I doubt they put two of their eggs on one obv town lynch.

Why assume multiball?

Manny/Mick probably separate factions. I doubt they put two of their eggs on one obv town lynch.

i would like hear reasoning why gerry is obv town? All i see from him is being jester and provocative

Transcend, I'm still pretty sure this is scum.

Could it possibly be so easy as Mick/Manuel/Ram?

[Pine]

Did I miss evidence of multiball? Admittedly, I only skimmed the first 20ish pages, but I see no reason to leap to those conclusions.

It would explain why

Oh right this was advertised multiball.

[Pine]

Ragequitting is a bit of a Towntell, but Ramcius is both scummy enough and newbie enough to merely nuke the read down to null. W/e.

Mack train is leaving the station. If you want to bus without suspicion, now' the time.

CHOO CHOO

[Pine]

Setup spec at this point is premature

[Pine]

Pass

[Pine]

Alisae you're jumping the gun. Let replacements do their thing.

[Pine]

Oh PeregrineV is town btw

I concur.

Townbloc is Alisae, Transcend, Peregrine, Gerryoat, and Peregrine.

Scumbloc is Ramcius, Manuel, ConManMick.

Some games you win by scumhunting.

Some games you win by Townhunting.

This game? I might be both.

[Pine]

I don't see scum coming up with a out-of-the-blue hard TR on Ramcius right now. There's no benefit.

Consider the following from Scum!PV's perspective:

-If you think that Ram is Town, why use your clout to help him? Let him soak a mislynch. Put him in your null reads to avoid suspicion, maybe on the null-Town side if you really want to fish for Towncred should he flip Town.
-If you think Ram is opposing scum, you definitely don't go out on a limb for him. You push for his lynch.
-If you think he's null, just toss him in with the rest.

[Pine]

By the way, for future reference, this is how you use a strong scumgame to bolster your Towngame. Figure out cost/benefit to possible actions, and then try to assess what you'd do as scum in their place. When it doesn't fit with their actions, they're either a newbie, an idiot, or Town. PV is not an idiot, and he's not new. It's plausible he's going for an elaborate attempt at mining Towncred, but it doesn't work from a risk/reward perspective.

[Pine]

-If you think Ram is opposing scum, you definitely don't go out on a limb for him. You push for his lynch.

Hmm...
Pine, fruit for thought:
Jaack scum.

Thoughts?

No opinion yet. Maybe if I get really bored I'll ISO.

The whole point of not obsessively reading the first two dozen pages is that I may see things you don't. Town tends to play a lot scummier early on, with nothing to do. Scum tends to play tighter. I'm seriously considering skipping the first couple of (RL) days of discussion as a general rule. Depends how this goes.

[Pine]

Crap there's more pages than I thought. Stringing responses together.

{Ram, kuror0, Manuel, Mick, Gamma}

That is a fuck ton of bottom tier scum reads btw

Really it's only one more than would exist in a standard 13v4 Large, and we might be looking at 11v3v3, or even 10v3v3v1.

Hello! It's late here, but I've done a little reading. 30 pages to go. Probably have some first thoughts tomorrow at some point.

You're in a tough position, Clumsy. I don't envy it. Consider yourself on probation from the start.

This is not a post.

The cake is a lie.

I explained my read on him when he asked me. You might want to read that part again before misreping it.

Naaaaaaah, you're misrepping me now.
You never interacted with him up to the point where he asked for a case.
If I phrased it differently sorry, that's what I meant.

It is true that i didnt interact with him until i mentioned my sr on him but the point you make is that i made a case without interacting with him.
I gave the case when he asked me why he is in my scumreads.

Either way i dont see what is bad about developing a scumread on someone.
Please explain how it makes me scum when you dont even take your time to argue about my points on him.

I kind afeel like Manuel is town.

I kinda feel like Pep might be scum.

@Elena: Your name and avatar have been bugging me since we started, and I finally placed it! Uncharted is win.

I'm now getting mild TRs on Yoshi and Elena, mild scum on Iron. Not worthy of the Townbloc on the former, nothing actionable on the latter.

[Pine]

Holy shit, drealmerz is in this?

*ISOs*

That's a scum ISO from drealmerz. I've been playing a lot with him, and I'm calling it. He joins the scumbloc.

[Pine]

Welcome to Large Normal 201 - Art Gallery!

OMGUS!
pedit: MOD PLEASE!

Everyone is post restricted to art and votes.

[Pine]

Pep moves into the definitelymegakillscum category.

[Pine]

Pep moves into the definitelymegakillscum category.

Why am I such a scum all of a sudden?

It hasn't been sudden. You've been kind of opportunistic, your reads are all kinds of made up, and you're making all kinds of newbiescum tells.

Pep is town

Show your work.

I am now a Survivor

Ay nice 10k posts bro.

I'm coming up on mine.

[Pine]

You might have been right after all

Obviously.

@Clumsy 1398 - Not quoting and snipping that long fucker of a post. Transcend is super obvTown. Shut up unless it is to scumhunt the other team or tell us yours.

Pine, how much can I trust you?

In this game? Entirely. This is me in Strahd. Transcend is my Andrius, Alisae is Sly, and regrettably, you replaced Dunnstral.

Clumsy is town.

Final answer, Regis.

WHAT. Disagree. Stop it. You were on board a bit ago.

Gear,

vanilla townie

, was lynched day 5.

Pedit: i like wagons. The woof woof needs to advance.

VOTE: IRONSTOVE

I can support this, though I'd like to see a VC first so I know I'm not quickhammering. There's been a bunch of votes here lately, and I think some were already in place. Clumsy's presence on the wagon would make me lolnope, but multiball is good like that.

@Mod: Vote count please

Consider this a provisional vote on Iron.

[Pine]

Never mind, I decided to not be lazy, and there was a VC more recently that I thought. This is 6 votes, L-4

Ironstove - Yoshi, Gerry, Clumsy, Transcend, Elena, Pine

VOTE: Ironstove

Flashwagon go go go

[Pine]

All my TRs want Ironstove...
Am I missing something?
Like he's on V/LA...

You're missing a vote on Iron. Townbloc gooooooo

Pep's last post was really good and a lot of people wanting to lynch him makes me go to paranoia city
VOTE: Iron
Let's make this wagon take off

I dislike this. Hopping back on a wagon that she was in before she voted me. Tho after seing that he push on me was weak and didn't get any attention and she knew she's not getting me lynched, she again hops on iron.

OPPORTUNISTIC AT ITS BEST

lolno

Revoting a wagon you were already on is the opposite of opportunistic. It's consistent.

@Clumsy1473 - What's up with wallposts I don't want to snip? Okay, the shut up was rude, but I tend to be a bit brusque with my SRs. It isn't your fault you inherited that slot. By yourself, I'd be objecting to your reads, which are mostly ridiculous, but wouldn't be hard SRing you. The problem is that you're failing to redeem a scummy slot.

Holy shit check out the whiteknighting that Pep is doing. Iron flips scum, we do Pep next.

[Pine]

My reads are fine, yours are wrong. At least some of them. Question for you: if Iron flips town, what do you think of Pep?

Probably scum working too hard for towncred.

[Pine]

Pep, you are definitionally whiteknighting. Let me link to HOW IS THERE NO WIKI PAGE ON WHITE KNIGHTING.

I must learn how to Wiki in order to write one.

[Pine]

Seriously, Pep. You can still win by helping us eliminate the other team.

[Pine]

*highfive Alisae*

Well slain.

[Pine]

You're not being wagoned for being V/LA

You're being wagoned for being scum

[Pine]

I really hope you guys are actually Town, because that would make the Voltroning of this Townbloc a thing for the ages.

PEdit: Yikes, you were doing okay until the end there.

[Pine]

Voltroning of this Townbloc

i have no idea what this means but i'm town

[Pine]

Yeah, Iron, you being on V/LA has nothing to do with it. Nice try.

[Pine]

Yeah that's caught scum.

This game is like an embarrassment of riches for finding scum

PEdit: Iron are you still whining about the wagon on you? Deal with it. If you're Town, hat up and go be Town. This bitching and tantrum-throwing really doesn't help you.

[Pine]

Yeah, we know Pep is scum too. You're not contributing anything new.

[Pine]

Alisae. Get out of my head.

[Pine]

Yeah, we know Pep is scum too. You're not contributing anything new.

I'm sorry, you think that pep is town and you agree with me, yet you still scum read me as well? Why do you have such contradicting behavior?

You realize that based on your reads thus far, it's contradicting to try to push both me and pep as a scum team. Do you understand why?

1) Pep is scum, and we've both said so
2) This was advertised as multiball, so a paltry bit of halfassed scumhunting on literally the closest target does not net you a TR

[Pine]

I imagine it was the Role PM that did it, but you're kind of hammering in the impression with every post.

[Pine]

Yeah, just because you predicted the mocking doesn't make it less mocking.

[Pine]

Okay, fine you whiner.

If I was a vigi and I had 2 bullets and I was in a room with gerry, hitler, and stalin, I would shoot gerry twice.

Do setups like this usually hit majority on D1? Anyway I hard claim not mafia. Remove your lynches.

Haven't really been reading the game, I'm kinda low-effort towning it while there are this many players in the game because it's hard to formulate reads, but please continue posting and don't let me be a distraction.

These three posts stand out as not especially Town-motivated. I joined in the Iron wagon for three reasons - first, the above amounts to a weak scumread. Second, my TRs all/mostly were thinking the same thing. Third, a flashwagon can help pressure someone to react, which you did. My weak scumread is now a pretty lockscum read because you've reacted TERRIBLE to getting some votes on you. Seriously, Town just doesn't hyperobsess with arguing the minutia of their wagon, they fight it by acting Town. That weaksauce attack on Pep was a clear attempt to divert attention away from you. Your attempts to deflect suspicion back onto me, then to dismiss me as an idiot. Then continuing to hyperfocus on yourself.

Yeah, it all points to scum!Iron

Sorry, caught is caught.

[Pine]

Oh please I'm not doing this twice in a row at 5:30 in the morning.

[Pine]

Ugh thirty pages behind.

[Pine]

Can we kill someone now? I'm getting bored of this game.

Scumfuck.

PEdit: No.

[Pine]

Can we kill someone now? I'm getting bored of this game.

Scumfuck.

PEdit: No.

Watch your language. I reported your post for profanity. Learn to read the site rules and learn some manners instead of acting like an ape.

There isn't a site rule against profanity.

[Pine]

@Yoshi

I'm going to need a hard claim on being Clumsy's Mason buddy.

PEdit: I'm way behind still, Fro99er. I suspect many of my reads are out of date, but I have reason to question the Masons.

[Pine]

Christ, I leave for a few hours and fourteen pages. I can't keep up with this. Blatantly skimming at this point.

but I have reason to question the Masons.

This

Does not jive with

UNVOTE: Clumsy
I have reason to believe him.

This.

At minimum one of these two is scum.

The difference is, I fully intended to explain myself as soon as I got a straight answer, which is here:

Guys, I have little time today. I will do what I can, but let me point this out, I did not intend to soft-claim mason. I am not clumsy's mason.

I asked for a straight answer because when people soft-claim Masons (or appear to) I immediately ISO them and look for inconsistencies, such as one expressing suspicion for the other or voting them. I found such inconsistencies with Yoshi, and hence demanded a hard answer. Inconsistencies documented below:

Spoiler: Not Masons

Idc as long as he's not at L-1 where someone can lolhammer him.
I like everyone on the wagon except Clumsy, but that could easily change when he responds tomorrow.

VOTE: clumsy
Until he responds AND I'm satisfied with his response.

I'm indifferent between the two now. There's been some pretty convincingly incriminating things said for clumsy that entice me.

No, this is hammer.
VOTE: clumsy

With Yoshi declaring the apparent softclaim invalid, the matter is moot and resolved.

[Pine]

Seriously considering replacing out. It isn't lack of interest or reads, but the pace. I'll tough it out through D1, and see if I can handle it D2.

[Pine]

I didn't want sheep. I wanted to see how other people reacted to the claim, which I (probably) still haven't read yet.

so what do you make of Pine's comment about reasons to doubt the claim

Did he elaborate on reasons why?

Did he elaborate on reasons why?

no, but I want your reaction to his reaction.

you've barely mentioned pine all D1 and it's pinging my radar.

I did actually elaborate on why. It's here:

Christ, I leave for a few hours and fourteen pages. I can't keep up with this. Blatantly skimming at this point.

but I have reason to question the Masons.

This

Does not jive with

UNVOTE: Clumsy
I have reason to believe him.

This.

At minimum one of these two is scum.

The difference is, I fully intended to explain myself as soon as I got a straight answer, which is here:

Guys, I have little time today. I will do what I can, but let me point this out, I did not intend to soft-claim mason. I am not clumsy's mason.

I asked for a straight answer because when people soft-claim Masons (or appear to) I immediately ISO them and look for inconsistencies, such as one expressing suspicion for the other or voting them. I found such inconsistencies with Yoshi, and hence demanded a hard answer. Inconsistencies documented below:

Spoiler: Not Masons

Idc as long as he's not at L-1 where someone can lolhammer him.
I like everyone on the wagon except Clumsy, but that could easily change when he responds tomorrow.

VOTE: clumsy
Until he responds AND I'm satisfied with his response.

I'm indifferent between the two now. There's been some pretty convincingly incriminating things said for clumsy that entice me.

No, this is hammer.
VOTE: clumsy

With Yoshi declaring the apparent softclaim invalid, the matter is moot and resolved.

I can't take the pace. Like I said, I'll re-evaluate D2, but I'm not even skimming at this point. This only stood out because it was recent and about me.

[Pine]

Pine ... I said you didn't elaborate in post 2598 and you explained on 2898. So at the time I said that, I was correct. You hadn't elaborated.

We all saw you elaborate in 2898

Ugh fine. This is a function of not being able to keep track of things. Ignore me.

[Pine]

Fifty-something pages in two days. You people suck. I am granting Transcend, my strongest Townread, full proxy over my vote. I'll keep up with VCs in mod's ISO, and adjust my vote accordingly to match his.

Transcend, disappoint me and I will gut you.

[Pine]

VOTE: Jaack

[Pine]

I actually think pine is town for his proxy post

See, that makes me kneejerk suspect you.

[Pine]

VOTE: cabd

VOTE: Cabd

[Pine]

A little of both. You've only produced fiveish pages since last I checked, which I skimmed enough to see the Vig claim.

I skimmed pages 1-20s, read 20s-50s, skimmed 50s to 70s, skipped to 100s, skimmed selected parts of the 110s-130s, skimmed most of 140s-150, skimmed all the rest.

You people post a LOT of unnecessary garbage.

[Pine]

Seriously, my amount of care in this game is extremely low. I'm sticking with it because I almost never get this role and want to see it through. Besides, my D1 game, especially as Town, is super weak. I'm best in mid- to late-game, so I'm waiting for it.

To use a poker analogy, I've already paid to see the flop and have a low pair. I'm willing to pay to see the turn, and maybe the river, but if they suck I'm folding.

[Pine]

Arright.

VOTE: Pep

[Pine]

megadayvig: inspectorscout, the scoundrel

D:

[Pine]

Oh Christ, if I have to wait nine days for this shit train to come into the station, I'm out.

[Pine]

Called it.

[Pine]

I'd like to nom

inspectorscout

for

Excellent Moderation

based on New York 201 - The House of Harmony, but apparently it is a body of work category rather than an individial game category. It's the only game of his I've played, does anyone have other games of his that are also of similar caliber?

Link to Scummies thread

[Pine]

Working on that, but not because I want an award. The sole reward that matters to me is having the players enjoy the game and have positive feedback afterwards.

If I stop being lazy I'll finish my large theme, okay?

Let me know when you've got the details worked out for those games, I may pre-in.

[Pine]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... Large_Game

It's actually going to get bumped from the #2 spot pretty soon.

[Pine]

I always try to read the better games, for ideas and for fun

To everyone saying they want to know about my future games:
I'm modding inception mafia with FA very soon, but the game is incredibly complex and I don't think it really shows where I want to be.

The other game I'm making will soon be finished, I'll send everyone who requested it a PM when I can give more details.

Deets for moi por favor, bitte schön mo chara

Linguistic overload...shutting down...self-destruct activated...