Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[doomfeathers]

I am here, and I am bloodthirsty. May evildoers die and truth triumph!

Also, votes not don't count. Though yes, you probably are doomed.

[doomfeathers]

Sesq is scum. Cats can't be trusted.

[doomfeathers]

*now

[doomfeathers]

I'm a little confused about the mechanics. How do the Mafia kill more than two people with no night phase and only two daykills?

[doomfeathers]

This is clearly OMGUS.

VOTE: Sesq

[doomfeathers]

I'm a little confused about the mechanics. How do the Mafia kill more than two people with no night phase and only two daykills?

Not knowing the rules didn't affect my PM, and getting a sum role wouldn't have explained them to me. This doesn't count as (real or faked) evidence of townishness. Sorry. (Maybe I should have asked somebody about gameplay first, but I figured this was a good place to find out.)

The reason I'm confused is that, without a nightkill, a game ending with one scum and one townie left alive would never end because lynching is the only means of death at that point (assuming scum have used both their kills). How is this situation resolved?

[doomfeathers]

*scum role

[doomfeathers]

Lynch: Ultimate Despair

@Doomfeathers:

LYNCH.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you wanting to lynch me and Ultimate Despair, or are you voting for Ultimate Despair and asking me to join you?

I've played nightless before, scum wins only if the town becomes apathetic. Don't spam but don't disappear or lurk either.

Actually Scum wins when they are able to earn Town reads in Nightless games since there is no pressure (or in this case significantly lower pressure due to the 2 Daykills) to have to justify why they are so Town read and still alive.

Also what you say about winning town reads is true, however it's risky to go for too much town credit early on as the lack of day-kill on them stands out. There's always the element of WiFoM involved though. It also works as a double-edged sword, if the town can form a bloc then they're able to put a lot of pressure on scum as well.

Why are you guys so interested in scum's best play? To me, this looks like a great way to appear townie by refuge in audacity. Also, wgeurts seems to be hinting that we should form a bloc, which makes me suspicious.

VOTE: wgeurts

That said, thanks! I get how the game works now.

VOTE: Hawk

My name isn't misspelled.

OMGUS look at this scum right here!!

That asside is it a reference to someone is the old Extended universe? I like Star Wars but never really got into the books.

This is completely irrelevant to the game. It reads to me as if you're trying to pick an argument with someone to waste game time by purposely misspelling words in an argument about spelling and asking purposeless questions that could be answered with five seconds on Google. Why are you acting as if it's still RVS?

FOS Hawk

[doomfeathers]

I honestly don't feel like we are out of RVS... all of this content you guys think is here feels forced and easily could be fluff. Like I said Null feels all around. Plus I like engaging people rather than just googling it. Do you think Revan voted me out of RVS? I don't think so. If he did he better speak now. Ignore shit that doesn't partake to the game if it's one damn post if it bothers you that much.

Yes, we are out of RVS. We have been for a while now. Once someone votes someone else for a good reason rather than just at random, RVS ends. And I was not saying that you were playing poorly, but that your post had what I saw as likely scum motivation. Why should I ignore it?

Doom, figuring out scum's best play is what town is meant to do. Like chess, you should always be predicting what they're going to do. Considering what's town and scum are likely to do, and reading posts to see which motivation makes more sense, is what we call scum-hunting. It's very hard to catch scum if you don't spend time thinking about what scum do, they're not going to hand themselves over on a platter. Me posting on it means everyone can take it into consideration. It's also not so that I've only posted game theory, you're leaving part of my posts untouched.

Unlike chess, I see here a difference between best play and likely play; however, I can see how predicting scum's best play would be a valid strategy, though naming it so they can avoid it seems a little odd.

UNVOTE: wgeurts

Also, hell yes we should form a town bloc, that's literally what we should be aiming for. Right now though? Definitely not, and I've never said so. That happens later game, once reads are more established, people have flipped, and one or two scum shots have gone off. How is this suspicious? You can't just call things suspicious without explaining why.

Thank you for clarifying that we're waiting until later. I have problems with limitations on who I vote for without reasons I see as good.

A. That's a stretch as really nobody's going to be distracted by a side-discussion about someone's username. Thus no time is wasted. Scum know this if they're decent at least.

It could clog up the thread if done right. I read an article about that.

B. Why would scum do that so early on? Stalling and redirecting attention is best done mid-late day when the deadline draws near or a scum-partner is in danger. Neither of those conditions have been met yet.

Thank you for explaining this; I didn't know.

C. It is still RVS, notice how people don't have firm reads and are randomly voting?

"Without firm reads" is far different from "randomly". You are voting me for a reason, no?

VOTE: Hawk

[doomfeathers]

Eh, never mind. On second ISO, he doesn't look so scummy. I still disagree with avoiding content and judgments early on, though.

UNVOTE: Hawk

[doomfeathers]

VOTE: Sesq

Sesq has posted five times, but has neither generated content nor voted seriously. She seems to be coasting. Friend Computer has done the same.

[doomfeathers]

I thought about what somebody (I think it was wgeurts) said about your play being NAI, and it made sense, so I don't have good reason to scumread you anymore. Voting for inactive players to produce more content is common practice. Also, you were already voting for me.

[doomfeathers]

Fair enough I suppose.

Also I know that why do you think I put the vote again?

Also why Sesq and not Friendly then? What about Sesq's few inactive posts tickles your fancy more than Friendlys?

I guess you were attempting to intimidate me. It's not really important.

It was mostly just that I had to pick one, and Friendly already has a vote.

@Doom post 72
The best play being known to all makes it less worthwhile, the less scum can get away with and the more they're forced to play at a high standard the harder it gets for them. Full transparency from everyone makes stuff hard for scum. My reason for voting you was outlined in a later post in response to magma by the way.

I'm also a mod on the wiki so I've read all the articles, many are old and apply to a meta no longer applicable. They great stuff to understand how you should be approaching the game, but don't use them as law.

Ooh, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you much for explaining that and the article usage!

For the record, I think early analysis produces valuable content. Waiting to produce content until later will just produce the same content over more time.

[doomfeathers]

^ Wgeurts's quote isn't supposed to be inside Hawk's.

[doomfeathers]

So you're voting Wguerts, then fosing Hawk, both for weird and made-up reasons on the same post. That makes me feel you're trying to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. Don't like this. I feel that's what newbie scum would do on this situation, without a night kill.

I admit my reasoning was bad, but it wasn't intentional. Are you trying to criticize me for hunting more than one scum at once?

Also @Lucca: My reason was that I thought Hawk was trying to pick an irrelevant argument to clog up the thread. Like I said, it's something I read about in a wiki article.

@Hawk: I don't like to wagon people just because they aren't posting much unless they continue not to post content after receiving one vote. A lynch isn't the intention. Besides, this way we get two birds with two stones.

I think Lucca townleans. His posts don't seem to have scum motivation or give me bad gut feelings.

Hawk, call me yoghurt, gogurt, or TheLegend27

Please, not that ad.

[doomfeathers]

NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.

This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.

[doomfeathers]

LAMIST means "Look at me, I'm so town."

[doomfeathers]

Doom, mind linking the wiki article?

Be as distracting as possible. While people will complain if you make too many wall posts, almost nobody complains if you take up several pages with a silly one-on-one argument that nobody else cares about. This can be done with a buddy or your primary suspect. Use confusing pronouns whenever possible to increase uncertainty, and never let a single point drop. Argue your stance back and forth, getting more obscure each time. If you make reference to an earlier post, state the number but do not give a link. Nobody will admit that they can't follow the argument, they will find it difficult to concentrate both on reading you and pushing their own agenda, and best of all, they can't call you out on anything because you're just a loyal townie doing his best to catch scum.

[doomfeathers]

VOTE: Sesq

Sesq has posted five times, but has neither generated content nor voted seriously. She seems to be coasting. Friend Computer has done the same.

Revan has done the same. Other players like Super have only posted once. Why you decided to specifically point out Sesq?

Revan was already being interrogated. Players who have posted only once I would rather not try to deal with; they don't tend to respond very quickly, and are more likely to be complete lurkers.

I'm critcising you for voting wguerts, and on the same post, fosing Hawk.

The way you posted it seemed like you were more interested on voting Hawk than Wguerts, but voted Wguerts for some unknown reason.

I voted wgeurts because he seemed to be focused on figuring out best play for scum rather than for town. I figured he was doing so in order to give the impression that he must be town because no scum would be so blatant. I have since retracted my vote since his reasons for the discussion were explained.

[doomfeathers]

Sesq, I've explained my vote on you. Would you mind explaining your vote on me?

[doomfeathers]

'Kay, thanks. That'll do.

VOTE: Friendly Computer

[doomfeathers]

I feel as if df didn't fully read my post...

I did, actually. But even if I hadn't, you've now generated content, showing a commitment to the game and allowing us to read you. My vote now moves on.

[doomfeathers]

Well, that's at least some content.

UNVOTE: Friend Computer

I need to think about my next votee.

[doomfeathers]

@doom:

Sesq has posted five times, but has neither generated content nor voted seriously. She seems to be coasting. Friend Computer has done the same.

Inactive player is more scummy than all the other players you were analyzing? Is this really the strongest vote you could come up with at that time?

As I stated earlier, a temporary vote can be used to prod a player to post more. It wasn't because I viewed Sesq as scummier than others.

[doomfeathers]

Quick readlist:

Town:
wgeurts
lucca261

Probably town:
MagnaofIllusion

Maybe town:
mozamis
Sesq
Ultimate Despair

Slightly suspicious:
Hawk
Revan

Suspicious:
Friend Computer

Lurking so far:
Superhans
havingfitz

VOTE: Friend Computer

He seems eager to post, but not to further the discussion. It's mostly a gut read.

[doomfeathers]

wrt post 29...doom...have any of your games on mafia had a scum wincon that did not include having an equal number of mafia to town?

No, but my understanding was that this wincon was as a result of the scum nightkill, since there was no other possible outcome. Without nightkill, it's not really logical for that win condition to be in effect. I'm okay with a game where the rules are arbitrary, though.

wgeurt...how new is doomfeathers to mafia? Looks like he has ~5 games on site. Does he have any experience elsewhere?

Out of curiosity, why are you not asking me this? How is wgeurts supposed to know?

wrt post 57....sesq. Is your "official" vote on doom an RVS vote?

No, it was a serious vote based on his LAMIST setup posts.

Just stop with this misrepping.

There's no misrep here. You never stated any reason of the sort. You voted me because I voted you in RVS, then confirmed your vote without explanation.

[doomfeathers]

Town: Lucca
Town lean: Magna
Null: Everybody else

I do agree Doom's LAMIST was out of place, however in hesitant to scumread him for it.

I just realized that these are the only two posts Revan has made in which he actually states anything helpful. I'm not sure whether it's scummy, but his playstyle seems very odd.

[doomfeathers]

wrt post 57....sesq. Is your "official" vote on doom an RVS vote?

No, it was a serious vote based on his LAMIST setup posts.

Just stop with this misrepping.

There's no misrep here. You never stated any reason of the sort. You voted me because I voted you in RVS, then confirmed your vote without explanation.

I later clarified that it was due to your pre-game LAMIST stuff. Saying now that my motivation was wagoning is a misrepresentation.

Ah, I see. You stated that you believed it was LAMIST later, though you didn't state it as your reason for voting. Gotcha.

[doomfeathers]

Somebody dies between Superhans' posts, showing that he was online at the time. He doesn't react at all. Does this look suspicious to anyone else?

[doomfeathers]

VOTE: Superhans

[doomfeathers]

Doom, mind linking the wiki article?

Be as distracting as possible. While people will complain if you make too many wall posts, almost nobody complains if you take up several pages with a silly one-on-one argument that nobody else cares about. This can be done with a buddy or your primary suspect. Use confusing pronouns whenever possible to increase uncertainty, and never let a single point drop. Argue your stance back and forth, getting more obscure each time. If you make reference to an earlier post, state the number but do not give a link. Nobody will admit that they can't follow the argument, they will find it difficult to concentrate both on reading you and pushing their own agenda, and best of all, they can't call you out on anything because you're just a loyal townie doing his best to catch scum.

Is this referring to Lucca? Which player is playing like this?

I thought Hawk was trying to start an argument. Wgeurts pointed out that that was unlikely to happen this early. Maybe I should think that one over some more.

[doomfeathers]

Who's Karnos?

[doomfeathers]

You're voting for the mod?

[doomfeathers]

True. It was close, and I don't have actual proof that I wasn't online until after the kill had been made.

[doomfeathers]

I managed to take a few screenshots of our member pages. Either these people were online when the screenshots were made, or they didn't submit the kill (or maybe kronos didn't post the kill right away). The ones of mine and Friend Computer's don't count for much since we posted around that time, but I figured I'd include them anyway. The other member is Lucca216. I'm on CST.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ahy4v36vzjom ... j7ZWa?dl=0

[doomfeathers]

The rest of you, apparently, log on as hidden a lot.

[doomfeathers]

On second thought, no scum would be that dumb, WIFOM be hanged. Never mind.

VOTE: Friend Computer

again.

[doomfeathers]

In any case, Lucca wasn't the killer unless kronos purposely waited to reveal the kill, since kronos posted a vote count since Lucca was last online.

Sesq was Hawk's votee at the time, so he was not likely the killer. It would look too suspicious.

[doomfeathers]

I'm still searching for where I townread mozamis since apparently I missed something the Sesq pointed out. I don't particularly find his content all that informative or thrilling.

TheLegend27 is town
Soft town leans on Magna, UD, and Lucca.

Scum leans on Mozamis and Sesq tho to be honest only one of the two is probably scum and I don't have enough content from Mozamis to assess but I'm not sure where Sesq thinks I was town reading him prior...

Null everyone else or if leans they're not super strong plus two lurkers.

Maybe mozamis?

[doomfeathers]

Here are other player's interactions with Hawk, in approximately chronological order. Lucca has been excluded because he couldn't have made the kill.

Wgeurts: A few disagreements, a vote, a null-scum read, and then a townread.
Mozamis: Three townreads.
Sesq: Scumreads, associations with mozamis, null-scum read.
Ultimate Despair: Townread.
Friend Computer: Townlean read.
Havingfitz: Townread.
Superhans: Criticism of Sesq's scumread of Hawk.

Which of these is most likely to have been affected by the scum who later killed him?

[doomfeathers]

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff. Since then his play's become more null. I made the read list because I hadn't been reading the game too well up to then and I wanted to get into it. I probably wouldn't have placed a fourth vote on Doomfeathers if I had realized that was a fourth vote. I don't understand what you mean by not being transparent.

I have nothing to hide, as I'm not a PR, so if you want to know anything more about my reads do contact me.

As for hawk, I put them at null-scum for their earlygame reasoning and the 4th vote on me for reasons more applicable to other people. In hindsight associating them with mozamis is probably not accurate. I will admit with Magna that I didn't see anything and was just cranking something out so that he appeared on the readlist. I know everyone's going to go up in arms and think this an associative tell, but I really didn't see anything. Will look over it again now.

The bolded sentence looks very odd to me. First, contact outside the thread is against the forum rules. Second, there are no PRs except the 2-shot day goon, who obviously isn't going to confess. Is Sesq going out of her way to imply she's a townie?

[doomfeathers]

Also, I realized that there is a small chance Lucca could have submitted the kill if he stayed online from the time he submitted the kill until I checked his last login. It seems unlikely, though.

[doomfeathers]

My post 15 was RVS (and not technically part of the game yet). My second vote on him was based on his LAMIST stuff. Since then his play's become more null. I made the read list because I hadn't been reading the game too well up to then and I wanted to get into it. I probably wouldn't have placed a fourth vote on Doomfeathers if I had realized that was a fourth vote. I don't understand what you mean by not being transparent.

I have nothing to hide, as I'm not a PR, so if you want to know anything more about my reads do contact me.

As for hawk, I put them at null-scum for their earlygame reasoning and the 4th vote on me for reasons more applicable to other people. In hindsight associating them with mozamis is probably not accurate. I will admit with Magna that I didn't see anything and was just cranking something out so that he appeared on the readlist. I know everyone's going to go up in arms and think this an associative tell, but I really didn't see anything. Will look over it again now.

The bolded sentence looks very odd to me. First, contact outside the thread is against the forum rules. Second, there are no PRs except the 2-shot day goon, who obviously isn't going to confess. Is Sesq going out of her way to imply she's a townie?

When I said "contact me" I meant in-thread. If you try to PM me about game stuff I'm going to report you. I knew there aren't PRs this game, and sometimes PRs have things to hide, even on the side of town, so I was saying that because I'm VT I have absolutely no information to hide.

Okay, that makes sense. But it still seems kind of weird that you'd point out that you aren't a PR when there aren't any real PRs in this game.

[doomfeathers]

Okay, catching up. I'm on page 10 at the moment.

Doom 136

The content presented by Friend was very, well, non-content. It was almost two random phrases with no explanation behind them. Do you feel like it was enough to make you unvote him?

Friend's post was rather unsatisfactory, but I had said that I was voting him until he posted more content. He did, so I felt I had to uphold my word by unvoting him. Afterward, I thought about it for a while, then put my vote back where it was.

[doomfeathers]

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

This is scum.

Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.

VOTE: Sesq

[doomfeathers]

You do know it is general site procedure for Mods with hidden daykills to allow scum to “queue up” the kill to a later time based on any number of criteria, correct?

I did not; this is my first game involving daykills. Thanks much for informing me!

NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.

This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Scum don't need to suspect others. Mozamis is claiming quite openly that she might, in fact, start suspecting everyone, thus implying she is townie. If this is on purpose, it's LAMIST; otherwise, it's a towntell.

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

Already answered.

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

This is faulty reasoning. First, you need to prove that my methods were faulty. (Others already have, but you didn't even try.) Second, poor reasoning is not the same as scummy play. Since you claim it is, I should, using your logic, vote you for this post.

I really really don't like this post as you're excluding most of Hawks interactions. Have you considered that
1) Your 'who was online' is a sketchy af way of figuring out who made the kill as there is an unknowable amount of delay between the making the NK and the time it takes mod to make it.
2) Scum work as a team and have daytalk so I don't understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player.

1. I didn't at the time. I have since been informed of this.
2. I honestly did not think of this.

Although it isn't surpring, you ignore yourself from the recent interactions with Hawk.

True. I may be somewhat biased, but I tend to townread myself.

[doomfeathers]

Come to think of it, we may want to try to lynch the day goon today so he can't use his second kill. Do we have any indicators of who might be not only scum but also the killer?

[doomfeathers]

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

[doomfeathers]

Unless we can hit the shooter, let's lynch Sesq today. She's very obviously playing against the town wincon.

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

What type of question is this?

FC's ISO is bare. I don't think voting him will change this.

It seems odd to me is all. It shows emotional response directed (for some reason) at the mod, and emotional responses can be very telling. It's a reaction to

something

.

[doomfeathers]

To be absolutely clear: I think we should lynch Sesq today unless our alternative is the killer. She is blatantly playing against the town wincon.

[doomfeathers]

Care to vote, then? I find it interesting that you have never actually voted this game.

[doomfeathers]

Oop, never mind. I did a page search including a colon. Sorry.

[doomfeathers]

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

I have 0% hope that I'm not somehow getting lynched today. Sorry to be a waste of time to Town, I guess. Is self-hammering allowed? I'd do it right now if possible.

How am I actively playing against town's win condition?

I pointed this out already in huge text. I don't know how you could have missed it. Town fights. A townie knows he's innocent and refuses to accept defeat. One who says "Oh, well. Go ahead and lynch me," is scum. Offering to self-hammer redoubles the tell; it would be grounds for a lynch by itself. Self-hammering can help scum by cutting off discussion time, but it never, NEVER helps town. Vote Sesq. (But let's not lynch until near end of day; we want to catch as many as possible. It'd probably be good to avoid L-1 until then, too, to avoid wayward hammerers, especially since Sesq is offering to self-hammer.)

On the slim chance that you are town, Sesq, keep on posting your reads. Once you flip, we'll know your true motivations. One does not have to survive to win.

[doomfeathers]

Also is that lynch or L-1? Regardless, this game will end up pretty interesting.

That's four votes needed out of seven. Especially telling is that Sesq keeps resigning herself to the lynch long before it's certain to happen. The "Oh, well, lynch me" post was made when she had a whopping one vote (which had been on her pretty much all game anyway). This hyper-sensitivity very strongly implies guilt.

I had a thought. Does anyone else think it likely that this is an agreed-upon bus by mozamis? (If it is, I see no problem with helping it along.)

[doomfeathers]

@MOD:

Vote Count 1.5

Sesq

(3/7)

- doomfeathers, magnaofillusion, ultimate despair

Friend Computer

(2/7)

-

doomfeathers

, sesq, wgeurts,

magnaofillusion

,

ultimate despair

Revan

(1/7)

- superhans

Superhans

(0/7)

- revan

VOTE SESQ

I think this may have been missed.

Although I shouldn't answer for Doom, sorry.

RU voting me because I'm voting you? That's how this feels to me.

I think you misread the question. I asked Friend Computer why he voted karnos. I still want an answer, by the way.

The timeline fits. Sesq and Friend were the players under pressure when the Daykill went off with Friend being under more pressure. Votes more or less immediately piled up on Friend after the reset. Sesq begins her “Woe is me” act at 287. At the time she had ZERO votes (see the Mod vote-count at 276) and Friend had racked up 5 of the 7 needed to lynch.

Sweet glory, you're right. Mozamis' vote came after that post. I'll double-check the timing later, but I think I'm fine with lynching Friend Computer today and Sesq tomorrow.

Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to

try and tie me with FC and Sesq

is really shoddy play.

If it was obviously ridiculous you’d have pointed out what specifically was ridiculous. Instead you just handwave it. And point of fact in that post I was seeing relational tells

to Sesq not FC

(in fact I had assessed your behavior as not likely with Friend as scum given how bad you would look). Thus the sentence “some pretty strong relational ties to

Sesq

”.

Was that misrepresentation accidental on your part? And why, if scum reading you is OK, do you immediately try to say me doing so is “shoddy play”?

Sacred bovines. Now that you point that out, that looks a lot like a scumslip to me, as if Superhans already knew who the scumteam were. At this point, I'm looking at Superhans for the day 3 lynch.

[doomfeathers]

@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.

There's a difference. Scum need to look as if they suspect others. They don't need to actually guess at who is scum. Mozamis was claiming that hewould need to suspect others of being scum, thereby implying that he is townie.

As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.

Poor reasoning can be made by either side. To be scummy, it must have scum motivation. Otherwise, we'd just constantly lynch the people who are the worst at arguing. Also, you didn't actually prove that my method of finding scum wouldn't work. Those are the two faults I found with that paragraph.

Now I'm a little confused. I thought you were saying that the method of finding scum by login times was faulty in its reasoning, but you're saying that faulty reasoning is not the point. Could you clarify what is wrong with the method if you don't think it's illogical?

@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant "unless we find that someone else is more likely to be the shooter". If Sesq is the shooter, by all means let's lynch Sesq today.

@Magna: I meant that I need to check whether it's plausible that Sesq's faceplant was meant to protect Friend Computer. I'm studying at the moment, so I am taking only short breaks. I should be able to later today.

[doomfeathers]

@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

D'huh? Why are you asking yourself questions?

[doomfeathers]

I was completely and entirely aware it looked like terrible handwaving, but really what else am I going to do? I've already set myself up in a terrible position and it doesn't look like there's a way out other than by extreme chance. I'd vote myself to be honest.

Maybe if FC gets too much.

I am a new player, but I do not wish to hide behind that. Scum do have daychat in this game, so I don't think my kind of play would have went through with that, no?

What. On. Jupiter.

I see no explanation for this except Magna's theory, but I'm not sure why Sesq would say this so blatantly.

VOTE: Friend Computer

[doomfeathers]

Scum reading me is fine, but to make ridiculous leaps in logic to

try and tie me with FC and Sesq

is really shoddy play.

Sacred bovines. Now that you point that out, that looks a lot like a scumslip to me, as if Superhans already knew who the scumteam were. At this point, I'm looking at Superhans for the day 3 lynch.

Magna, wgeurts, and anyone else, this looks like a scumslip to me. Does it to you?

[doomfeathers]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

[doomfeathers]

Actually, change that. Let's lynch Sesq next whether or not Friend flips scum. Sesq is scummier than Friend anyway.

[doomfeathers]

Good point. It's not necessarily a scumslip. I still think it's suspicious, though. But let's lynch Sesq first, especially if Friend Computer flips scum.

if you plan to lynch sesq first, how will we know if fc is scum?
Out of FC and Sesq, I would want to lynch FC first, he is posting less, and his posts are kinda nonsense (e.g. voting mod etc). I like the train of thought in Sesq's posts and I think it would be hugely beneficial to keep her alive even if she is scum (if you get what i mean).

First after FC, I meant.

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

This is scum.

Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.

VOTE: Sesq

hmm seems like a bit of an overreaction to what I think is equally likely to be town play. I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.

Yeah, no. I don't care if it was made by the most townie-looking person in the game; THIS POST IS SCUM. And I have read the context to put it in perspective; it just got scummier.

Sesq is scummier than Friend anyway.

exactly. magna and co, shift your ARSES on to sesq wagon.

Sesq is scum, but we think FC might be the shooter. Care to lynch FC today and Sesq tomorrow?

[doomfeathers]

327 what does this even mean?

Hm. Nullscumreading Superhans.

Only null, as it is a bit usual in mafia for deaths to occur.

Vote: Karnos

I explained my reasons in post 331. (Woo, I know how to use that tag now!)

@doom, who is your day 2 lynch? And why the lining up lynches?

oh, it's sesq. ok.

Yeah, I like to line up lynches. It makes me feel like my plans are made and my ducks are in a row. But if good reason appears, my lined lynches can be changed.

don't like that Superhans is trying to softly stop the Sesq lynch.

Quoted for truth.

@doom, shouldn't you be voting sesq?

Sesq is definitely scum, but Magna has made a strong case that she's trying to draw attention away from Friend Computer, so FC is likely the shooter. I had scumread FC as well.

[doomfeathers]

Zero resistance to a lynch is scummy. Also, aren't you resisting by pointing that out?

[doomfeathers]

I thought you meant from yourself. Superhans has, in fact, been resisting your lynch. I think he's your partner.

[doomfeathers]

I thought you meant from yourself. Superhans has, in fact, been resisting your lynch. I think he's your partner.

It could be a gambit of some sorts. He might be trying to back me so it looks like I have viable partners (and more reason to lynch), and then I flip town and those associations are dropped.

Noted, thanks. In that case, I'll remember to suspect him no matter what you flip.

Come to think of it, we may want to try to lynch the day goon today so he can't use his second kill. Do we have any indicators of who might be not only scum but also the killer?

not necessarily in a scummy sense, but that lack of thread awareness, given that it's been a frequent point of discussion, is kind of annoying

I'm pretty sure I posted that before Magna's wagon on FC for that purpose was started.

But let's not lynch until near end of day; we want to catch as many as possible. It'd probably be good to avoid L-1 until then, too, to avoid wayward hammerers, especially since Sesq is offering to self-hammer

Just in case this is just you not really understanding, which since you're relatively new I'll just guess to be the case, taking too much time is anti-town as well as a stalled game state induces apathy and laziness. Take all the time you need, not all the time you have.

Thank you for explaining that. I still want to make good use of all the time I can, but now I'm okay with going ahead and lynching if things aren't happening.

I'm sorry I'm not more active.

I tend to forget...

Look. I'll do what you want me to do.

Hm. Nullscumreading Superhans.

Only null, as it is a bit usual in mafia for deaths to occur.

Vote: Karnos

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

Great. Could you answer this question, please? Then I'd quit bugging you about it, and you would also have a post from this week that's more than a prod dodge!

(Also, if you are somehow town, shoot Sesq, please.)

[doomfeathers]

Am I the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe from FC?

"Too scummy to be scum" isn't valid for the same reason as "too townie to be town". http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie

[doomfeathers]

That kind of makes sense, though it seems odd that it took you three days to answer.

[doomfeathers]

FC and Sesq are both town? Allow me to take a moment to rethink my convictions on profanity.

Well, now we must avenge those we killed.

Three townies dead means that we are now allowed two mislynches before we hit scum. Otherwise, down we go.

This is going to suck if Magna is somehow scum.

Sesq was an awful shot what the heck. Anyway, we've got 3 town deaths so it's time to reread the game again and draw associative tells. I'm a little behind due to exams but I'll get a good ammount in this weekend.

Why? We were going to wagon the tar out of, and almost certainly lynch, Sesq today. She was scumread a LOT. This saves us a day.

I'm going to need to go back over pretty much everything now.

[doomfeathers]

[...]
This is going to suck if Magna is somehow scum.
[...]

Would it suck (as much) if Wguert is scum?

Yeah, but I can see Magna being scum before wgeurts being scum. I don't think he is, but if so, he (with the help of me and a few others) just got two townies nicely out of the way, so I'm going to go ahead and be paranoid for a bit now.

[doomfeathers]

On second thought,

VOTE: MagnaofIllussion

Its partly a gut read, but his theory leading to two townie kills just seems to coincidental.

[doomfeathers]

Nuts. I was hoping to draw scum hoping for a mislynch on a valuable player. Oh, well. (Not that I blame you guys for refuting my faulty reasoning.)

UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion

@wgeurts: If you didn't want Sesq dead, why didn't you say something when we were wagoning her?

[doomfeathers]

Doom...you've claimed to have went for reaction tests at least twice now. Do you do that a lot and has it ever paid dividends for you?

Also...can you explain why you say Magna is valuable to town?

I don't remember posting more than one reaction test. Hm.

No, I don't do it a lot, and I haven't had success with it. But I'm getting sick of constantly lynching townies as town, so I'm experimenting with new methods.

In my view, wgeurts and MagnaofIllusion are like the town leaders. They appear to be more experienced by their play, and are the main scumhunters. It's hard to explain fully. It's similar to the "town by activity" tell, but moreso.

I actually thought someone might use that comment as a negative (I can't recall the name of the tell) but I'm surprised it's you. If you're town your radar needs calibrated.

That tell name didn't sound familiar so I had to look. It's also called the "Wow that sucks" tell. Whatever the name...I knew that sort of opening comment was considered scummy by some but I wasn't too concerned because:

1) I wasn't NOT going to say what I was thinking because of it, and
2) I was curious if anyone would make a big deal out of it.

It sure seems that you put a lot of thought into figuring out whether people would think your post was scummy.

VOTE: havingfitz

Why doesn't it hold water? He could've been trying for a mislynch, but then realized it was going to be really hard so then he went back on it.

Oh, I guess you're talking about me. I didn't get that at first.

On second thought,

VOTE: Magnaof

Illussion

Its

partly a gut read, but his theory leading to two townie kills just seems

to

coincidental.

I breadcrumbed.

@Magna: I think it's plausible that Superhans was trying to avoid being tied to scumreads, not actual scum, or that he was trying to provoke this reaction to be linked with them.

[doomfeathers]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

[doomfeathers]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

If I'm going to purposely act scummy, I don't want people thinking it was by accident.

[doomfeathers]

It isn't curious, I was curious. I didn't look myself because I was reading on my phone at the time and didn't feel like that hassle. You said Moz and wgeurts were the "strongest candidates" which made it seem like there were other...less strong candidates. Which was where my curiosity was.

By the way, the candidates were mozamis and me, not mozamis and wgeurts.

[doomfeathers]

537: Not sure I buy this. Did you really think that scum would vote Magna right away? What is your read on magna, @doom?

I did not, but people immediately objected to my fake wagon. This added pressure, nullifying the point, which was to look like an easy mislynch wagon.

557: can you explain the breadcrumb? I don't get it. I don't get why you had the need to breadcrumb also. The only reason for you to breadcrumb this is if you are concerned about how people view you.

True. Normally, I don't expect people to view me as scummy because I'm playing as town. However, in this instance, I purposely performed an action which was intended to look scummy. Therefore, it was important to show that I did it on purpose with town motivation. (And wanting not to be lynched isn't scummy; it's guilty paranoia that is.)

On second thought,

VOTE: Magnaof

Illussion

Its

partly a gut read, but his theory leading to two townie kills just seems

to

coincidental.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

I'm sorry I didn't come up with something better, but I must protest that misspelling is VERY unusual for me. I remember accidentally writing "Friendly Computer" instead of "Friend Computer" once; other than that, I challenge anyone to find an error I have made without quickly correcting it. I'd bet on it, but I can't think of anything to bet except listening to the Apple Pen song straight through, and that's just horrifying.

Magna's got to be town. I cannot see scum being ingenious enough to fake his posts. Besides, like I've said, I have a personal tell which says so and hasn't failed yet, for what it's worth.

[doomfeathers]

@MOD: I'll be V/LA until 10:00 CST tomorrow.

[doomfeathers]

IV got Moz as suspect scum because I feel herreads are not genuine at all, and I think she may have deliberately chosen to evade multiple questions towards her which fits with her being scum.

Also I don't like her push on me but don't want to make my read OMGUS so won't elaborate.

If you're going to say you have a read, I'd go ahead and say what it is. Criticizing someone's vote for you isn't necessary OMGUS.

@Everone on the following vote-count

Not Voting (6): havingfitz, Ultimate Despair, , wgeurts, Superhans, doomfeathers

This far into the day why are you not voting?

Vote Count 2.4

Superhans

(2): Revan, mozamis

Ultimate Despair

(1): lucca261

Havingfitz

(1):

doomfeathers

Mozamis

(1): MagnaofIllusion

Not Voting

(6): havingfitz, Ultimate Despair, , wgeurts, Superhans,

doomfeathers

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Nothing has changed since the last vote count, but it's been awhile.

(expired on 2017-02-04 09:00:01) until deadline.

I got listed in two places.

@Mod: Could you take my name off the "not voting" list? Thanks!

MOIs suspicion that he'll get lynched VLA is rather silly considering up until this point he's been probably the biggest town read. Just looking at Doomfeather trying shows how implausible it is.

Not lynched, NKed.

[doomfeathers]

If UD were scum, would they have had motivation to quickhammer?

Revan's playstyle is rather shady. He doesn't show his hand at all. Still, he could be town doing deep analysis between posts, or just without time to play.

Mozamis could be scum, but I don't think we should lynch yet. There's still a lot of analysis to be done. I'm honestly not sure how to read either him or Revan.

I've been suspicious of Superhans and havingfitz, and townread lucca, but I'm not sure what to do now that I'm supposed to re-evaluate all my reads.

[doomfeathers]

When Hawk was killed, Revan was the only one voting him. Does this make him more or less likely scum and/or shooter?

I've been looking through vote counts, and found something rather interesting. Starting about two weeks ago, Revan and Superhans were each voting the other for a while.

VOTE: Revan
Maybe a lil cheeky of me being a lurker until now accusing your of not really contributing enough, but...

i'll unvote when you explain your read lists:

Town: Lucca
Townlean: Magna, wgeurts
Null: Everybody else
Nullscum: Doom

He apparently never did find someone better to wagon, and apparently the readslist was never satisfactorily explained, since he never moved his vote.

Friend Computer, could you explain your motivation for voting karnos?

What type of question is this?

FC's ISO is bare. I don't think voting him will change this.

This is the best place for my vote to be.

VOTE: Superhans

He didn't really explain his vote, though he had put Superhans in a group of possible scum earlier. It could be just Revan being Revan.

Spoiler: There were few other voters on either wagon.

Vote Count 1.6

Sesq

(3/7)

- mozamis, doomfeathers,

magnaofillusion

, ultimate despair

Friend Computer

(3/7)

-

sesq

, wgeurts, magnaofillusion, havingfitz

Revan

(2/7)

- superhans, sesq

Superhans

(1/7)

- revan

Nobody needs a prod.

(expired on 2017-01-27 08:45:01) until deadline.
With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Vote Count 1.8

**Friend Computer**

(6/6)

- wgeurts, magnaofillusion, havingfitz, doomfeathers, sesq, ultimate despair

Superhans

(2/6)

- revan, lucca261

Sesq

(1/6)

- mozamis

Revan

(1/6)

- superhans

A lynch has occurred!

Please stand by.

I guess I was the only one getting the too scummy to be scum vibe...

VOTE: Superhans

Revan immediately revoted Hans without comment after the lynch. There apparently was no change in his reads because of the lynch. He has remained on Hans's wagon since then. The vote counts show only mozamis also on him.

Superhans never revoted for some reason, though he has continued to scumread Revan.

Throughout his ISO, Revan pressures Hans very little (though again, that could just be playstyle). Superhans calls Revan scum a few times, but also without much pressure. There was also a weird part in there where they both seemed to be trying to get the other to answer questions without answering the other's questions.

Could they be scum wasting time and distancing by voting each other and sometimes having a few small slap-fights while never actually pushing each other? This would also give them reason not to commit votes elsewhere unless they wanted to, leaving them harder to analyze.

On a different note, I found this:

I agree with Wguerts point that his voting is kinda jumpy, but I play like that myself, so I don't think it is necessarily to over-read.

Hans has voted twice this entire game. He specifically states that that's not his normal playstyle. Could it be that he's playing differently because he has a different win condition from the usual?

[doomfeathers]

What makes them garbage?

Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.

This seems rather odd to say either to a scumread as town or to a scumpartner as scum. What do you guys make of this?

If my theory is correct, it would be interesting to see what one does when the other is wagoned. I've been suspicious anyway.

VOTE: Superhans

By the way, Hans, did you change your avatar to match Sesq's just to irritate those of us who reread the thread?

[doomfeathers]

By the way, Hans, did you change your avatar to match Sesq's just to irritate those of us who reread the thread?

Never mind; Sesq said otherwise.

[doomfeathers]

I haven't checked, but it doesn't matter. Scumtells early are as important as scumtells late.

I'll look it over later, though.

[doomfeathers]

VOTE: Superhans

love to join you on this, but dont you think he's looked stronger recently?

Wait, this confuses me. Do you think Hans is scummy or no? You seem to be saying that you don't scumread him, but you wish you did. There are several ways this could have scum motivation, though it doesn't have to.

FOS mozamis

[doomfeathers]

Makes sense. I retract the FOS.

[doomfeathers]

can we get a UD lynch, @moi/@doom?

Not yet. I'm not sure who to vote for, and I don't have much evidence against UD other than the maybe-accidental quickhammer.

This reads pretty solidly to me of “MoI said he’s no longer Town so I’m prepping a move into scum for him”.

I did agree with you that he can longer be "conf town" as i sadi he was day 1.

However, I'm not "prepping a move into scum for him". He is the weakest of my scum reads. In fact it was P.O.E s omaybe i should have said null.
Whatever. Focus on getting UD lynched. Wguerts is - like i clearly said - last on my lynch.

Could be backing off in response to pressure. He's still following MoI's lead.

On the other hand I may be wrong about Mozamis...

UNVOTE: mozy
K I'm not so sure about UD being town...
I just read what Lucca said about UD voting Moz but not applying any pressure, which is very compelling but.if this were to be true Moz' push would have had to be ingenuine.

If mozamis is scum, he's shown his skill at faking sincerity anyway.

[doomfeathers]

or i am sincere.

FOR FUCKS SAKE I AM TOWN

LOL SOZ THIS GAME TOTALLY BREAKS ME SOMETIMES

Easy, now. I haven't seen your role PM. AtE won't help me decide.

[doomfeathers]

It's a logical fallacy, not a scumtell per se.

[doomfeathers]

Okay, havingfitz has definitely gained town points with me. That post was focused on the entire player pool, not just a few possible mislynches, and I agree a lot with his thinking. Scum, by process of elimination, are most likely Revan, Ultimate Despair, and Superhans; lucca goes along with havingfitz in the "probably not scum" category.

The rest of this post is @havingfitz.

Besides, like I've said, I have a personal tell which says so and hasn't failed yet, for what it's worth.

In most Mafia games I've played, there's a sort of "leader" of the town. I'm not sure exactly how I would define that. D1, I thought it was wgeurts, but it's definitely been MoI lately. I now townread him over wgeurts. But anyway, I've never seen the game "leader" be scum. When I've wagoned them in the past, I've regretted it. I didn't say fool-proof, though. I expect it to be broken sometime. And it's not secret; I think I've at least partially explained it in an earlier post.

But Magna has posted a lot of content, scumhunted magnificently (though not successfully, unfortunately), and generally looked townier than anyone else in the game. It would take something major for me to reconsider my townread on him.

I think we've established that I don't know how breadcrumbs work. Fitz, could you give me some advice? How detectable is one supposed to be, for example? I thought they were supposed to avoid notice until the crumber points them out.

I meant that I had to go back through ALL my reads--pretty much the whole game--and figure out what was really going on. I was certain FC and Sesq were scum and I interpreted other players' interactions with them in that light.

No, you're not wrong about me underposting. I've started a new course and was in time trouble. I'm posting more now, though.

[doomfeathers]

Waitwaitwait, I forgot mozamis. Scum are most likely in the pool of (mozamis, Superhans, Ultimate Despair, Revan).

[doomfeathers]

I was catching up and got a PM saying Day 3 has started. I honestly have no idea who got lynched.

[doomfeathers]

Sorry, guys. I got kind of distracted. Posts coming up.

[doomfeathers]

Fitz Catchup - Page 30

@fitz, 737: holy shit.

this post is big, let's go:

first, let's answer to your questions directioned at me:

I was asking you about Hawk because your post seemed to imply that you were thinking that somebody else had benefitted from Hawk dying, but wouldn't tell who. That reminds me, I had completely forgotten that. Did you, Fitz?

@lucca...I lean town on MOI as well...but how can you definitively anoint him town without some shred of doubt? Is MOI a crap scum player who posts completely differently than he does when he is town? tl:dr; confidence is suspect.

of course I have doubts about Magna. the thing is, one of the biggest factors I try to scumhunt with is consistency. things like a player subtitly changing his reads when it benefits him, having leaps of thought with seemingly no explanation behind it, things like that. and my point about magna is that he is creepily consistent. his posts all seem to follow the same thought process, to try to find scum. he pushes everybody, at anytime, without taking things out of context. I would find extremely hard for a scum player to have such a consistent game with the length of Magna content.

but I have some paranoia about him. an experienced player like Magna could look so townie and so proactive while being scum? maybe, but his content is extremely town, and I'm willing to lynch my actual scumreads now. he is solidly town to me. the not getting lynched commentary is because, if Magna is scum, I think it would be extremely hard for someone to lynch him. he is an almost universal townread.

@lucca...If you can't see Hans and moz being scum together then would you vote Doom today? He's 3rd from the bottom of your reads list.

@lucca...WTF? "yeah Doom is town?" smh head. He could be....but how do you know that so confidently? Though in hindsight....675 was a pretty good post. Leaning Doom town seems fair. But no locks please.

my thing about doom is this: I never really had more of a null read on him. he is a strange player to read. his posts look so proactive, so helpful and he seems to be looking for scum. but some content looks faked. I don't like how seemed to line up lynches. and a lot of his proactive content, like commentating on the daykill time, is NAI.

so, almost for all game, he was a line on my readlists. up above doom, this player is null at least. under doom, this player is scum. until he had that weird vote on Magna, with the breadcrumb. this was scummy for me. I didn't buy his explanation that he was trying to get scum. so I moved him down a bit. when he answered my concerns and other players began to do more scummy things, my concerns with Doom were getting smaller, for a point that reading his posts now, I genuinely feel that he's trying to hunt for scum. so now he's my second most sure townread. even at this time, the middle of the breadcrumb stuff, I wouldn't vote him.

some posts of him that I liked are 615, 675 and 676

Annnd Hans unvotes moz. Does a Hans moz combo work?

that wasn't a question for me, but I'll answer nonetheless.

at the start of the day, with the length they were going to lynch each other, I thought that for sure they weren't scum together. but lately, with the strange unvote and sudden townread that both developed about themselves, I'm starting to get paranoid about this. as a song here in Brazil states, I'm 99% thinking that they aren't scum together, but that 1% is vagabundo. (rowdy)

what do you think about this?

---

about the post in general, I confortable now putting fitz at my townpile, at least for now. his post is incredibly consistent, he brings the points that I thought a player reading this pages would bring, and regardless if I agree or disagree with his reads, I think that they are solid, and show that he's trying to process stuff.

I don't even get where you're coming from on point 1. We had a bunch of posts addressing and discussing Moz on day 1; are you asking us to restate our reasoning? Did you miss it? Like, what exactly are you getting at here, because it would be fairly difficult to miss our thoughts on Moz from day 1, and we have under 100 posts, so it would be hard to miss given the ISO feature. If you have questions about our read from day 1 ask them, but it's not my job to rehash previous events for your convenience.

Color me unimpressed with this response. The whole point of the exercise is to highlight what I see as fake-reads from your slot. Your ISO shows some softball questions tossed towards Moz Day 1 that supposedly pointed to a scum read. Yet today you’ve conspicuously avoided voting for the slot up until just now. And I don’t see anything in your Day 2 ISO that says “I revoked that read” (in fact you in this response squash that notion) or significant scum-hunting elsewhere (I discount your back and forth with Lucca as that is mostly driven by disproving his read on you not commenting on his alignment).

Here's the thing, though: your actual questions
1) Just asked us to restate what we'd already said
2) Misread junko's point - you seemingly interpreted that as if she was reading them without a prior opinion, as opposed to the more natural "these are my two scum reads" interpretation

So if your intention was to highlight fake reads, you did a really poor job of it, asking a "give me the info you already gave me" question, and asking a question that was seemingly based on a misinterpretation of a post. If you thought we were making fake reads, then things like "why weren't you voting", or highlighting specific posts or points that you thought were odd, would have been helpful.

It came across as busywork, and I don't think you ought to be surprised that I wasn't much interested in indulging what looked like lazy questions on your end, regardless of your tacked on "you need to answer this right away" bit

As for the bit about not voting, we were conspicuously not voting anyone at all. Do you think it's scummy to be a non-voter in a situation where we were also relatively low activity for the first week or so of the day phase, and there weren't any wagons that had grown really large? That strikes me as a pretty null bit; why do you think it's indicative?

Not a discussed vote with my hydra partner ftr, but im sure mukuro will agree given 701 and 702.

What do you think specifically is scummy about those posts?
--

I really should let junko answer for herself, but here goes

UNVOTE

HE SEEMD A BIT BLAND BUT HIS LAST FEW POSTS HAVE BEEN "SCUM HUNTERY" SO HE'S BACK TO NULL

I don't think I hate this one as much as Junko, but I'll note she made a LAMIST note about it in hydra thread

leaving p.oe
wguerts, rev, UD and fitz as possible scum
of these i wgeurts i guess is the weakest scum read, since he looked very fucking town earlier on. But as someone else mentioned, his total lack of content ment that that his towniness has evaporated.
Still, rev ud and fitz i guess makes more sense.
dan, i thought rev was looking more town so thats confusing. Still, i could vote him.
But we should focus on fitz and UD, and work out the last scummer later.

This one is worse. It's a "POE" that doesn't seem especially strong (as a simple example, the very post before, he bumped Lucca to "null", which strikes me as a poor basis of using POE to create scum reads, if you're to the point where you're dumping out null reads). It's also super hedgy on revan, while expressing an interest in focusing on fitz/us (not clear why). I'll let junko talk about if she saw more than that, but that's where my take is.

Yet aside from being occasionally scum-read there is no inclination to wagon him

Lol...so what are you saying about his lack of wagonning? That it suggests he could be scum?

Pretty much. The point being that he's such an easy target that scum would have gone after him by now were he town.

@UD if Moz flips:
Scum, who is the partner?
Town, who is the partner?

Why do you care about this? I'll admit that I occasionally do pre-flip associations when I'm in the mood, but w'ere in a game without a night kill, which means that there's probably LESS utility from this than usual. Like, say moz is lynched and flips scum and then we get day-vigged before we can talk about associations. While there would be less of a legacy on our end, there would also be the benefit that scum is out of kill shots, which strikes me as a perfectly fine outcome.
TLDR: I'm not especially in the mood to discuss pre-flip associations, although I suppose that's potentially subject to change if I get in the mood.
-M

I wanna know. Don't buy your point that it being nightless invidates this question, I think that pre flips can generate pretty insightful content.

Well, in the event that Moz flips town, I doin't know that there's anyone in particular that screams out scum due to that flip.

In the event that Moz flips scum, I'd probably want to re-read interactions and voting patterns a bit more carefully (among other things, seeing how the wagon on him actually develops as hammer gets closer might be interesting and useful). Probably Revan becomes the most obvious possibility, given the possibility of getting in on that bus early after SH vote there, but I odn't know that I feel that stronglya bout it (it's also plausibly just an opportunistic hop after the wagon on us has pretty flagrantly stalled).

That's pretty hedgy, but I don't know that I have a better answer for it rn.

-M

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Unless wguerts' replacement looks scummy, I have only three scumreads left: UD, Superhans, and Revan. Let's lynch this.

[doomfeathers]

My apologies. Those quotes were not meant to get into my post.

[doomfeathers]

I don't like how seemed to line up lynches.

I don't seem to; I blatantly do it, though with flexibility. If you're going to threaten me, do it properly.

TOWN
Wgeurts
Lucca
MOI
Doom
UD
Fitz
Superhans
Moz
SCUM

This is making me worry that maybe Lucca's scum.

Idk, 799 looks town to me...

VOTE: UD

You apparently switch your votes very easily.

Wow MOI is on a wagon I should vote there.

VOTE: Mozamis

You know Magna, then?

[doomfeathers]

I don't even get where you're coming from on point 1. We had a bunch of posts addressing and discussing Moz on day 1; are you asking us to restate our reasoning? Did you miss it? Like, what exactly are you getting at here, because it would be fairly difficult to miss our thoughts on Moz from day 1, and we have under 100 posts, so it would be hard to miss given the ISO feature. If you have questions about our read from day 1 ask them, but it's not my job to rehash previous events for your convenience.

Color me unimpressed with this response. The whole point of the exercise is to highlight what I see as fake-reads from your slot. Your ISO shows some softball questions tossed towards Moz Day 1 that supposedly pointed to a scum read. Yet today you’ve conspicuously avoided voting for the slot up until just now. And I don’t see anything in your Day 2 ISO that says “I revoked that read” (in fact you in this response squash that notion) or significant scum-hunting elsewhere (I discount your back and forth with Lucca as that is mostly driven by disproving his read on you not commenting on his alignment).

Here's the thing, though: your actual questions
1) Just asked us to restate what we'd already said
2) Misread junko's point - you seemingly interpreted that as if she was reading them without a prior opinion, as opposed to the more natural "these are my two scum reads" interpretation

So if your intention was to highlight fake reads, you did a really poor job of it, asking a "give me the info you already gave me" question, and asking a question that was seemingly based on a misinterpretation of a post. If you thought we were making fake reads, then things like "why weren't you voting", or highlighting specific posts or points that you thought were odd, would have been helpful.

It came across as busywork, and I don't think you ought to be surprised that I wasn't much interested in indulging what looked like lazy questions on your end, regardless of your tacked on "you need to answer this right away" bit

As for the bit about not voting, we were conspicuously not voting anyone at all. Do you think it's scummy to be a non-voter in a situation where we were also relatively low activity for the first week or so of the day phase, and there weren't any wagons that had grown really large? That strikes me as a pretty null bit; why do you think it's indicative?

Do you have a problem with restating what you've said for the sake of convenience, then?

[doomfeathers]

I was catching up and got a PM saying Day 3 has started. I honestly have no idea who got lynched.

Hi everyone I wanna be lynchbait too

I fixed your typos

-M

Yeah, pretty much. I'm not sure why I posted that.

I think Superhans could have seen that UD got away with "accidental" hammering and decided to try it himself. As UD themself has pointed out, it seems unlikely for someone to do it again so soon.

@Superhans: It would be a very hard decision. Maybe you, I guess?

[doomfeathers]

Not that I care if u believe me.

LAMIST.

Sorry Doomfeathers but I think you're wrong on at least 1/3 and probably 2/3.

Yeah, I usually am, but could you at least explain where?

Unvote or I will vote you.

What's the problem with voting? Also, do you usually use your vote as to threaten people rather than to hunt scum?

Quick phone post to say - you both know this is effectively LYLO right?

With that flip I will have to really, really reassess. More on that after lunch and errands.

Not LYLO, but MYLO. There's a difference.

@UD: One question: What's your intent in posting that?

[doomfeathers]

The issue with voting is that I am trying to think my way through the best way to deal with this day phase and I don't want people to start wagons and enable scum quickhammers.

My word, you're right. If scum could arrange a time in the daychat, they could quicklynch and win.

No, Ultimate, I meant 877.

[doomfeathers]

Today, we should probably vote only if we're sure we would want to lynch our votee today.

[doomfeathers]

Yup. And L-3 is one vote.

[doomfeathers]

877 was because you're now the second person who's asked me "well what were you actually saying about moz" so rather than just waste time bitching about people wasting my time I'd just take the couple of minutes it took to dig up the posts and post them. Perhaps now I can answer substantive questions about it instead of fluff questions.
-M

You misunderstood what I was saying, but thanks, anyway.

btw, it's 8 alive and 5 to lynch, so 2 votes is L-3, not 1 vote
-M

Oops, you're right. My bad.

[doomfeathers]

Actually I'll go even further. Generically, I would consider it fairly likely that one of the following is true

1) FC or Sesq was the scum dayvig and panicked
2) FC and Sesq were both scum and they both (or perhaps their whole team) collectively panicked

I think that Hawk was a pretty bizarre shot if this was some kind of well thought out, intentional scum strategy. I think that it's exceptionally strange to waste one of two valuable kill shots on a relative newbie who has made only 15 posts, at a time when day 1 was nowhere close to being over (scum get only two free kills, and it is highly likely that at some point during the game, at least one townie will emerge as someone that the scum REALLY want dead but can't easily get mislynched, and there is a pretty decent list of people here who could plausibly slip into that role eventually). The most logical explanation is, rather than this being a wise move, that this was a panicked and ill-thought out reaction to the game state.

Not sure whether that makes me want to wagon Sesq or FC, but I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd want to wagon elsewhere.

-M

I don't agree with this theory that the DK was a reaction to panic. I agree that there was definite intent behind the Hawk kill as the shots were valuable, but it is early D1, and it seems like an unbelievably audacious gambit that the death of Hawk would somehow throw the kill off of the FC wagon. Why would FC or Sesq try and kill Hawk so early in the day when they still have plenty of time to shift the pressure off of themselves without wasting a DK?

It did, indirectly, lead to the deaths of FC and Sesq. Could that have been the intent?

The fact that Hans keeps insisting that he hammered by accident makes it look to me as if it's true. Maybe he's not scum.

@UD: I was asking whether you had a problem with restating your reads when asked. I wasn't asking. Being touchy about one's reads seemed scummy to me.

[doomfeathers]

My paranoia is kicking in and you are all suspects btw.

This is town if it's not LAMIST.

You have to be considered...and anyone in this game who's in your fan club are IMO either scum blowing smoke up town!MOI's ass, really creative scum buddies reverseWIFOMdistancing from scum!MOI or really shortsighted town regardless of your alignment.

*raises hand*

MYLO LYLO....either or...no matter. Scum still have a dayvig left so if we don't lynch scum today it's game over.

No, that's not the case. In LYLO, we don't have the option of voting "no lynch". In MYLO, we do.

[doomfeathers]

@UD: Whatever. I still think that's a lot of fuss to avoid a short summary.

[doomfeathers]

(And by "short summary", I don't mean going back over all your posts. I meant the reason you currently had in mind. You have one when you scumread someone, no?)

[doomfeathers]

It could be LAMIST, but I think it's town.

No lynch effectively extends the deadline indefinitely, I think, in this case.

Would vote but am not voting: Revan

[doomfeathers]

Ah, okay. I think I was looking at the wrong questions for the beginning of the exchange.

[doomfeathers]

Sorry for not being clearer earlier. I didn't mean for you to have to quote all your posts about mozamis.

[doomfeathers]

So since I’m going back over the whole game with a fine tooth comb I’m going to bring up something I saw earlier and let go in my pursuit of Moz …

@Mozamis if Revan flips.scum who is his partner?

I had forgotten about this but his posting post Moz flip brought it back to mind.

MOI + Revan scum team, is this implausible?

Or UD + Revan

The first person who points out what I am seeing in all three of these posts gets a free Internet Cookie.

Revan's in all of them?

This is making me worry that maybe Lucca's scum.

Why does a Revan read list make you think Lucca is scum?

Because I'd probably townread my partners if I were scum. More than anything, it just made me consider whether I have any real evidence that lucca is town. I'm still considering it.

[doomfeathers]

@doom, 852: why did you quote that three posts? they have zero relation with your statement.

My apologies. Those quotes were not meant to get into my post.

@doom, 870: I was clearly not threatening you? this post was a statement of my townread on you? and how I'm scum for that Revan's readlist, please?

I got a sudden rash of paranoia. Your play is townie, but I seem to be constantly wrong about scumreads, so I was wondering whether scum was slipping past me. I expected scum to townread partners, and his other townreads I townread more strongly.

@doom, 887: I think we should do a FOS vote. when people want to vote for someone, you FOS them instead. we could the FOS, and then, when we reach a majority, we vote for that person. in this way, we stop quickhammers.

I'd go for this.

wait. can this L-3 stuff be a scumslip that points that Doom and Hans are scum together? if they were planning on killing someone today, it would be a L-3. the way they were talking about that it seemed like they were almost already assuming it. I think it's plausible.

As somebody pointed out, scum have daychat. If you want, I can find examples of paranoid me talking as if assuming worst-case scenario from earlier this game.

@doom, 898: there's no reason to no lynch, there's no night phase.

It would, however, extend our deadline indefinitely, if I understand the system correctly. We can do that if we need more time to deliberate.

[doomfeathers]

@lucca216: The "threatening" thing was a Monsters, Inc. quote that I couldn't resist sticking in. I know you're not really threatening me.

@MoI: Are you ready to state your reasons for actually threatening Revan yet?

Is Superhans' jump onto the Magna wagon opportunistism or townish paranoia? Is it possible that Magna looks to scum like a possible mislynch, or that scum just don't want to be on any real wagons at the moment?

No matter who we scumread, we seem to agree that scum are somewhere in (Superhans, Revan, UD). Why don't we lynch one of these more scumread players? That way, we're more likely to hit scum, so we'll have more breathing room while going after others.

[doomfeathers]

No matter who we scumread, we seem to agree that scum are somewhere in (Superhans, Revan, UD). Why don't we lynch one of these more scumread players? That way, we're more likely to hit scum, so we'll have more breathing room while going after others.

You do realize that it's MYLO right? One mislynch = game over? This seems like a bizarrely relaxed perspective given the game state. Do you think it's SH/Revan/us exactly? Are you somehow not concerned about picking wrong in that group? If the latter, please explain why you're not concerned about what could potentially be a game-ending decision.
-M

I'm just saying that everyone seems to agree that there is scum in that group, so we're more likely to hit scum if we lynch from this pool. Yes, it's still important that we pick the right lynch.

@lucca216: The "threatening" thing was a Monsters, Inc. quote that I couldn't resist sticking in. I know you're not really threatening me.

@MoI: Are you ready to state your reasons for actually threatening Revan yet?

Is Superhans' jump onto the Magna wagon opportunistism or townish paranoia? Is it possible that Magna looks to scum like a possible mislynch, or that scum just don't want to be on any real wagons at the moment?

No matter who we scumread, we seem to agree that scum are somewhere in (Superhans, Revan, UD). Why don't we lynch one of these more scumread players? That way, we're more likely to hit scum, so we'll have more breathing room while going after others.

You're still hard town reading MOI, I'm guessing?

I'm analyzing.

Maybe Superhans is scum but he's not today's lynch for reasons that I will get into. That's a good catch but don't vote him or condone anyone else doing so.

Interesting. Will you reveal your reasoning if I push the button?

[doomfeathers]

Probably inherent in that is "I'm better than you", which, for the record, is a fairly obvious and common town tell.

I'm not seeing the reasoning here. Could you explain it? I've read a lot on the wiki, and I've never come across anything like that.

Doom already acknowledged that it was reasonable to read his question in the way I did.

No, I didn't. I merely acknowledged your clarification.

No, I will vote you until you unvote. I am only asking for 24 hours here and there's no real deadline. Give me my time.

I missed where you asked for 24 hours. I'm fine with that.

[doomfeathers]

Doom already acknowledged that it was reasonable to read his question in the way I did.

No, I didn't. I merely acknowledged your clarification.

Sorry for not being clearer earlier.

I didn't mean for you to have to quote all your posts about mozamis.

Either that was an empty apology or you understood that it was reasonable for me to have read your post in the way that i did. I presumed the latter.

-M

Oops, misread. I must have skimmed it, because I thought you were talking about MoI's posting. Never mind. Sorry.

@doom, 942: your play is starting to concern me. first you say: "hey, I'm worried that scum is slipping past me", then you say: "hey, let's just lynch the most common scumreads". these two statements together don't fit.

Yes, I'm worried that scum is slipping past me. That's why I'm trying to be careful not to lynch someone others are not also scumreading. I figure that someone we all agree on is more likely to be scum. By this post, I was intending to caution us against lynching someone who might or might not be very good scum rather than someone who is most likely scum, if poor scum.

[doomfeathers]

UD's reference for the emotion tell specifically said that anger doesn't count. I'm not really seeing any emotion other than anger from them, yet they're trying to use that as evidence of townishness.

FOS Ultimate Despair

[doomfeathers]

I guess there could well be arrogance in there as well. I don't really see that one being hard to fake as scum. I'm not seeing anything that would be.

[doomfeathers]

I guess there could well be arrogance in there as well. I don't really see that one being hard to fake as scum. I'm not seeing anything that would be.

So did you forget about the discussion about arrogance when you made your "there's only anger" bit? It's weird that you'd be explicitly involved in a discussion on the topic and then discuss it as if it hadn't even happened. Are you generally forgetful about things that you're involved in? Should I just presume this is normal behavior for you and not worry that you're simply offering up a lazy excuse for a tactical vote?

-M

It's pretty angry arrogance, that's for sure. I took into account what I'd read, then applied my best guess at what emotions would be difficult to fake as scum. Your attitude would be pretty easy, in my opinion.

[doomfeathers]

It's pretty angry arrogance, that's for sure. I took into account what I'd read, then applied my best guess at what emotions would be difficult to fake as scum. Your attitude would be pretty easy, in my opinion.

It looks like you've been in five completed games, correct? Can you cite an example of this being faked easily or effectively?
-M

It's pretty angry arrogance, that's for sure. I took into account what I'd read, then applied my best guess at what emotions would be difficult to fake as scum. Your attitude would be pretty easy, in my opinion.

Also, please provide specific examples of what you consider "angry arrogance" from my posting, as opposed to "contemptuous arrogance", "regular arrogance", etc (and by specific examples I mean quotes, preferably with explanations of what you're seeing). You've represented that you've done enough work to tone-read me, this shouldn't be difficult for you to provide.
-M

Can you possibly be serious? You've posted nothing that wasn't antagonizing. Are you seriously asking me to hunt down posts so you can nitpick about whether it was anger, contempt, or arrogance? What difference could it possibly make? It's SCUMMY. DEAL WITH IT.

That's in response to 987.

[doomfeathers]

But yeah, I don't see what difference it makes. Generally, being antagonistic is not something you have to fake as scum.

[doomfeathers]

Can you possibly be serious? You've posted nothing that wasn't antagonizing. Are you seriously asking me to hunt down posts so you can nitpick about whether it was anger, contempt, or arrogance? What difference could it possibly make? It's SCUMMY. DEAL WITH IT.

So you're saying you can't? I mean, you've represented that you are capable of tonally reading me, and then when asked to provide examples of what you claim to be seeing, you decide that you can't be bothered?

No, I'm demonstrating. That's how well I do off the top of my head without warming up. You sure seemed to take it as antagonistic.

[doomfeathers]

1) Thread consensus seems to be top suspects inside (Hans, me, revan). You sheep that consensus in 942, while at the same time expressing basically zero interest in WHICH of those three is actual scum (which is super weird given that we're in MYLO)

2) I push on that and you state the obvious in 955

it's still important that we pick the right lynch.

while at the same time not especially doing anything to pick that correct lynch

3) In 958 you question my tonal tell data relating to arrogance, and dispute that you'd acknowledged that my read of your question (i.e. that you wanted me to hunt down those posts) was reasonable

4) In 965 you acknowledge that my point was in fact reasonable (unless "oops, misread" was ALSO empty)

5) In 977 you state that you failed to see any emotion from me other than anger and FOS me (you also state that I'm trying to use anger as evidence of townishness, which isn't really correct, and even if it was, would be pretty NAI, unless you think that town players can't or won't try to demonstrate that are town for reasons that THEY think are accurate even if you disagree)

6) In 980 you acknowledge that in fact there could be arrogance, and declare that this isn't hard to fake as scum (without evidence supporting this btw)

7) In 985 you declare that the only arrogance I've shown is angry arrogance. You continue declaring that this is easy to fake as scum, again without any evidence.

8) In 995 you simplify our conversation by redirecting it to the statement that I've only been antagonistic (which isn't true), and use that as an excuse to not bother providing evidence to support your assertions, especially notable given your earlier

@UD: Whatever. I still think that's a lot of fuss to avoid a short summary.

to me

9) In 996 you declare that antagonism is natural as scum, which is again not actually the case (most scum tend to be more accommodating, passive, and UTR, though obviously there are exceptions).

1)

Scum, by process of elimination, are most likely Revan, Ultimate Despair, and Superhans; lucca goes along with havingfitz in the "probably not scum" category.

It wasn't sheeping. I already had those reads.

2) True. Picking the correct lynch wasn't the point of that post; I'm doing that separately. I was simply pointing out a method to raise our chances.

4) I guess? I didn't think it was a big deal. I didn't really bother to check.

5-9) What I meant to say is that there isn't a big difference between those emotions. They're all antagonism, and all come naturally to scum. They don't even need to fake them.

Your emotionalism isn't necessarily townie emotionalism. If anything, it would be indicative of scum. And trying to defend yourself with behavioral tells (indicating your knowledge of them) is questionable at best. My FOS stands.

[doomfeathers]

doom is posting scummy shit and trying to go for every lynch he can.

Yeah, no. I've kept it pretty much in the pool of (UD, Revan, Superhans) which I think is most likely to contain scum. I'm not wagoning MoI today, and probably not you, Fitz, or Nahdia.

[doomfeathers]

Did I? I'm pretty sure I took it as evidence that your stated read didn't have substance behind it, and therefore was potentially insincere. Why do you think I interpreted it as you being antagonistic? Or did you mean that I was being antagonistic to you there?

I meant that you seemed to react as if I was being antagonistic, demonstrating that I had, in fact, demonstrated how easily antagonism can be faked.

[doomfeathers]

Did I? I'm pretty sure I took it as evidence that your stated read didn't have substance behind it, and therefore was potentially insincere. Why do you think I interpreted it as you being antagonistic? Or did you mean that I was being antagonistic to you there?

I meant that you seemed to react as if I was being antagonistic, demonstrating that I had, in fact, demonstrated how easily antagonism can be faked.

Can you explain what you mean by this? I don't think I really understand what you're getting at, or which of my posts to you in particular was an example of this.

-M

Okay, I'll explain again: 995 was meant to be a demonstration of how easy it is to fake frustrated antagonism like you've been posting all game. The tell doesn't apply to this manner of play. It does even less so since you pointed it out on yourself, demonstrating that you knew it existed and therefore could have faked it just to point it out.

doom is posting scummy shit and trying to go for every lynch he can.

Yeah, no. I've kept it pretty much in the pool of (UD, Revan, Superhans) which I think is most likely to contain scum. I'm not wagoning MoI today, and probably not you, Fitz, or Nahdia.

that is the problem. you are not committing to somebody you want to lynch. You are putting the three most scumread player together and saying: "I'm fine with lynching any of these three".

you are leaving to the other players to decide who we will be lynching, and I don't like that.

Okay, gotcha, but that's still hardly "every lynch I can".

I'm trying to decide. I don't want to miss and lose us the game.

5-9) What I meant to say is that there isn't a big difference between those emotions. They're all antagonism, and all come naturally to scum. They don't even need to fake them.

Your emotionalism isn't necessarily townie emotionalism. If anything, it would be indicative of scum. And trying to defend yourself with behavioral tells (indicating your knowledge of them) is questionable at best. My FOS stands.

How does antagonism come naturally to scum? Have you ever played scum? Are you normally antagonistic when you get a red PM? Can you provide any actual examples of this?

"Aggressive curiosity" is a term I've heard (and liked) about what makes a fundamentally townie mindset. A scum mindset is sometimes to actively fool town, but more commonly to (at least in ideal circumstances) passively coast while town eats itself (thus the term "active lurking" as a good summary of a typical scum approach). Antagonism is GENERALLY not a scummy trait, unless it's rooted in something fundamentally pro-scum.

With that in mind, what EXACTLY in my emotionalism seems scummy to you? What about my antagonism seems rooted in a pro-scum mindset? The simple fact of my antagonism's existence is certainly not scummy behavior, which frankly should be apparent after having played just a couple games of mafia, so you'd need to connect that emotion to a scummy mindset (or demonstrate that it's faked) for it to have any validity as a tell. I'm curious if you're capable of or interested in doing this.

-M

I'm not saying that the tell makes you scummy, but only that it doesn't prove you townie, and that you bringing it up is suspicious.

@doomfeathers: it seems like you've been mafia once and town the rest of your games (among your completed games). How would you describe how your mindset varied between when you were town and when you were scum?

-M

When I'm scum, I tend to try to imitate my townplay. I'm still aggressive; I just scumhunt normally among townies. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at it.

[doomfeathers]

@MOD: V/LA until 5:00 PM Monday, CST. I may post before then if I get a chance.

[doomfeathers]

Difficult to put my finger on exactly what makes UD's content so difficult to read (not all of it is btw)
but in some of the longer posts:
1) uses rapid succession of questions
2) engages in long back and forth conversations on specific issues sometimes relating to (in my opinion irrelevant) theory.
3) tone is indignant, and overall not pleasant to read through.

this is subjective, and so im not confident in this being indicative of scum, but equally im not seeing anything that i like.

That's about how I feel about the slot.

I want to point out on this page it feels to me like Lucca got scared of me calling Fitz out on the buddying and is now FoSing me for it. Potential scumpartners.

He's not scumreading you...

[doomfeathers]

Are you an alt, Nahdia?

I don't think [Superhas] as scum sit there calling one person scum the whole game.

Actually, that's exactly what he was doing.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is my first game where mafia has daytalk, so this is going to be interesting.

UNVOTE:

Question: what are the odds that someone picks up on mafia having daytalk as town?

I did, though I don't think I posted about it. It's my first game where scum have daytalk, too.

lucca261 (it's all gut, idk)

Don't doubt gut reads.

Gut reads are what got me helping to kill Sesq and FC...

[doomfeathers]

VOTE: havingfitz

Sheeping Nahdia.

[doomfeathers]

MoI, if we lynch Fitz today, and you tomorrow, and you are town, that's still a net gain for town. You're okay with that, right?

[doomfeathers]

If it is feasible to lynch MoI, I will. If someone puts him at L-1, I will hammer.

[doomfeathers]

[...]
Do you honestly think one of us isn’t going to be the lynch today? RC’s death assured me of that. Frankly the only other person I’d bother to vote anyway is SuperHans. I know he’s already voting me and I haven’t been quicklynched by this point so he’s your scum partner. [...]

I've got a cookie to any player who can find the problem with this.

Other than the facts that it assumes all scum are currently logged in, and that if you're town and he's scum there still wouldn't be a quicklynch by scum?

[doomfeathers]

MoI, if we lynch Fitz today, and you tomorrow, and you are town, that's still a net gain for town. You're okay with that, right?

MOI is not town!!!

i don't get how you can scum read fitz

without

scum reading MOI.

I do scum read him. If he's scum, he should agree to this to appear town, making our job easier.

All right, then.
VOTE: MoI

[doomfeathers]

I AM GOING TO CAMP THIS SITE UNTIL WE GET ONE OF (HAVINGFITZ, MAGNAOFILLUSION) LYNCHED!

[doomfeathers]

No offense, Superhans, but if Fitz gets to L-1, I'm switching my vote.

[doomfeathers]

Revan, would you lynch Fitz today?

[doomfeathers]

Superhans, if Fitz was lynchable today, would you go for it?

[doomfeathers]

Or town quickhammer. Don't forget that possibility, unless you scumread me.

[doomfeathers]

If I have the chance to quickhammer MoI or havingfitz, I will. Just to let you know in advance.

[doomfeathers]

For the record, I read him the same way.

[doomfeathers]

If I have the chance to quickhammer MoI or havingfitz, I will. Just to let you know in advance.

Doom you do understand that if you are Town then Fitz and whoever is Hans and Fitz's other partner can just coordinate in the Daytalk PT to arrange my mislynch, correct?

Yup. But I think you're scum.

[doomfeathers]

I'm sheeping Nahdia. I believe I said so earlier.

[doomfeathers]

Aw, come on. This is fun. I'm being stubborn and feeling good about it.

[doomfeathers]

I know it's risky. I'm going over the falls with both fists in the air 'cause somebody said there's a net at the bottom. Woo hoo!

[doomfeathers]

Revan, where are you? Are you going to vote somebody so we can lynch or not? What about Fitz? Hans and I will switch if you do.

[doomfeathers]

(To be clear, I'm going over the falls 'cause Nahdia seems trustworthy and because there are alligators at the top. Of that I'm pretty sure.)

[doomfeathers]

I'd prefer Fitz because thus sayeth Nahdia.

[doomfeathers]

SOMEBODY VOTE!
I'M TIRED OF SITTING HERE!
I HAVE STAYED ON THIS PAGE SINCE MY LAST POST AND I AM TIRED OF IT!
LET'S LYNCH ONE OF THEM!

[doomfeathers]

Seriously, check my "last visited". It's three days ago.

[doomfeathers]

I'm pretty sure that's lynch. Good day, everybody.

[doomfeathers]

What? I'm town.

...Sorry, MoI. I really thought you were scum.

[doomfeathers]

And the guy I was going to lynch but thought my scumreads were no good turned out to be scum...

[doomfeathers]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Good game, everyone. Sorry for being the voter that let scum quicklynch.

Thanks for modding, Karnos.

[doomfeathers]

Sorry for being rude earlier, Sesq and FC. I was certain you were scum.

[doomfeathers]

Sorry for being rude earlier, Sesq and FC. I was certain you were scum.

I DID look like hard scum though. FC could pass. Don't know why he killed me.

I asked him to. Sorry about that.