Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)

[Creature]

I sorta want this cassielle wagon down.

Fine lynch options:
RadiantCowbells
-Grey-

[RadiantCowbells]

GBT + something other than Cass sort of makes sense.

GBT's creature read feels blown way out of proportion and their play is scummy as shit in general but it would require Cassielle to be town which is a pretty big stretch.

[RadiantCowbells]

It wouldn't be shadd though. Creature would make a ton of sense as a scumpartner if they decided from the get go to hard townread each other and spew bullshit as to the reason.

[Aeronaut]

- VoteCount 2.3 -
With 8 players still alive, it's 5 to lynch!

[L-5] mattblackguy -
[L-3] -Grey- - Raskolnikov, Creature
[L-5] schadd -
[L-5] RadiantCowbells -
[L-5] Raskolnikov -
[L-5] gigabyteTroubadour -
[L-5] Creature -
[L-2] Cassielle - RadiantCowbells, -Grey, schadd_

Not Voting - mattblackguy, Cassielle, gigabyteTroubadour

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2017-01-28 20:00:00)

[mattblackguy]

VOTE: Grey

I'm down with the grey lynch.

Rask is confirmed town. I feel strongly that schadd, creature, and giga are town.

This leaves Grey, Cass, and RadiantCowbells as possible scum. I'm not really feeling Cass as scum. I just think Cass was trying to aggressively scum hunt day 1, and just tried to pull as much discussion out of everyone as she could. Wouldn't scum want to shut down discussion?

Only thing that feels really odd about Cass to me now is the fact that she's still reading Rask as scum even though he's confirmed town...

[RadiantCowbells]

If you think that Grey's scum his obvious scumpartner is Cassielle so just lynch her first.

[RadiantCowbells]

In a world where Cass is town I feel like this is a loss anyway with town's reads as they are so I'd rather we just lynch her.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is a newbie and I'm not going to risk alienating people to try to win and ruin the game like my last one.
My slot is town, you're scumreading me for a hammer that I would never have made as scum. It literally serves no purpose.
I play to endgame as scum because I am a good scum player. That hammer got me heavily scumread for no benefit.
I ask: why do you think that Scum!RC decided to stick his neck out for a pointless quickhammer on dueling 4/4 wagons?

If I really wanted to just end the day as scum I would have replaced in said bye felicia and complained the next day that my reads are shit so far.
My predecessor was townread and everyone in this game besides Raskol who I have played with has proven they are shit at reading me.
Lay off.

[mattblackguy]

I feel more strongly that Cass could be town over Grey which is why my vote is on him.

@RC If Grey flips scum then Rask could track you or Cass confirming one of you as town. Then we'll lynch the other.

[RadiantCowbells]

Or we could lynch Cass who could be scum with boatloads more people.

[mattblackguy]

Can you explain to me why you think Cass is scum?

[mattblackguy]

You obviously feel strongly that Cass is scum, but you've never explained why you feel this way. I'm staying put with you, and grey as scum team unless you explain your reasoning a bit more.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sure, I will explain.

Question: Do you think that scum!RC would be completely unable to come up with a reason to scumread cass?

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway.

Cass literally IIOAs more than she actually posts content. she spends half the game on tangents about what people do and/or should be doing.
And yeah, some people like myself and Mastin do this constantly as town, but there's a massive difference between me arguing optimal play and Cass sitting there going NOOBSCUM DO X Y Z without pointing to anyone in the game with it. 12 is the worst example.

id say give him a chance to wiggle out

This really doesn't come from a town thought process. Like, REALLY doesn't come from a town thought process.

Massive posturing in shit like

explain that out of thin air l-1 crap pls? yeah sur eit was really l-2, but you didnt know that so wtf? explain yourself, what on earth was the point of it, why did you do it? why did you expect tb to be a good candidate for that kind of pressure even???

Does this look like someone who is looking for scum or someone who wants to make Rask look scummy?

gbT gets 5th TR and still has really low standards for scum? bs. i dont buy that for a minute. even if two slots are lurky youre gonna get a bit on the paranoid side about folks and this is literally just gbT jumping up and down on TB because SURE LETS DENY TOWN A DISCUSSION POINT AND SOURCE OF INFO WHY NOT. two answers and he shuts it down without even fully buying into his own reasoning and trying to get the hamster to pull that wagon into town, gtfo of here with that.

Someone trying to scumhunt or someone trying to exaggerate cases?

WTF is town doing trying to keep people from putting info out? scum knows all, town is not omniscient. scum has a vested interest in shutting down info-generating discussion, town DOES NOT. it also is sorta bad for the noobs -- they dont have an opportunity to say where they are curious about things without actively putting themselves out front role wise or etc. thats a pro-scum attitude, if not precisely anti-town.

Again: there's no scumhunting in her ISO. Just her grandstanding about how everything everyone does is insanely scummy. At no point do I get the impression reading her posts that she is actually trying to solve the game, just feels like she wants to make people look scummy.

Also the maintained Raskol scumread I think is because she's scared that she'll look inconsistent when she switches.
Do I need to go on?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, think of it this way. Are Cassielle's posts coming from someone who is exploring the game, or from someone who wants to make the other players think a certain way about things?

[mattblackguy]

Again: there's no scumhunting in her ISO. Just her grandstanding about how everything everyone does is insanely scummy. At no point do I get the impression reading her posts that she is actually trying to solve the game, just feels like she wants to make people look scumm

ergo, we needed to look at those slots in detail. my methods were geared toward that. i cleared people quickly because i was trying to find the scum, not waste my time with probable townies.

ok going over the topic:

schadd_ still reads scummy. not as scummy but still scummy. light scumlean? something like that. idk how people are missing what me and grey saw there, its fluff everywhere and almost no scumhunting. a lot of helping people who are scumhunting but no real work himself. very defensive when scumread or questioned.

matts also looking scummy. we keep giving him outs because hes new and hes not unaware enough to not take them, but i mean... way im seeing it: just because someone is new to mafia does not mean they are new to manipulating group dynamics, esp blame-game dynamics (which is the basis of mafia in essence). we should probably be tougher on his mistakes and not be so quick to offer a town-explanation, which is as much my fault as anyone's. theres also the quickness to frame tb's actions in the way he did when radiant jumped into the game

gbT is unreadable currently. lack of info? no, but lack of something. i want to say gbT is a townread but i feel like i may have dismissed my earlier questions too early and i dont see any real reason to believe that a townread is a good fit there.

radiant is pinging my scumdar for a lot of the reasons -grey- did, but without the convoluted thought process to get there; it just falls out of the posts. i can see a world where radiant is town, but it doesnt feel likely. however that slot had a good (if sparse) run as Shade, so im not comfortable making this a strong read

-grey- is null for reasons discussed prior. ill take a strong stand on him when it gets to lylo/mylo, if im alive that long.

creature is town.

rask is scum. im pretty sure this idea is about as popular as diving off a cliff atm so im not going to press this. i cannot get traction on that wagon and i know it

p-edit: regarding discrediting your townbloc, gbT: i was in fact trying to do that. ill even tell you why. but first: if you really think that the way i shook up the gamestate was totally unnecessary, id like to see it in a post, clearly spelled out

Thanks RC, I think I see where you are coming from now. Cass says she clears people quickly because she wants to find scum and not waste time with townies yet her read list has everyone as scum/null but only one other person as town. Cass if your methods were geared toward finding scum then why is everyone on your list still scum/null?

VOTE: Cass

L-1

Btw RC the reason I asked you to explain why you thought Cass was scum was because I didn't understand the reasoning. There had to be something I was missing, and I didn't want to join the wagon without seeing what I was missing.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like her 'theorycrafting' doesn't even line up with her actions in game. And town can be awful hypocrites but it's so glaring and gross here.
Especially with all her 'scumhunting' just being OMG DID YOU SEE HOW THIS GUY DID THAT SCUMMY THING LIKE HOLY FUCK SO SCUMMY.

[cassielle]

please actualyl read 974. particularly the last two paragraphs before the p-edit. i am ditching my reads because i was mistaken about something and i need to figure out what before i can build a new townblock. so im keeping my townreads minimal on /that/ basis alone.

i explained precisely why everyones at null or scum atm. twice, as you can see. i also dont have a vote out because i have no confidence in those current reads of mine for reasons i explained in 974 and i dont want to inadvertently push town into a bad situation with another ml.

but yall really wanting that ml can go for it. im getting nowhere anyway with this lol

im just gonna sit this here in the meantime though. its not like my measly vote on a non-wagon with two people inexplicably fighting for townreading it is going anywhere and i dont wanna go down on this ml without putting a vote out.

VOTE: schadd_

and just

wow, town. wow. i really dont got much else to say here. the rask scumread was a lame gambit that sort of relied on me not being wagoned off a cliff d2 for reasons completely invisible to me, and a lot of ultraspurious reasoning that just completely throws posts i made out the window (e.g. mbg's post just up there conflating why i broke up the townblock the way i did with my readslist today, ignoring my twice-stated reasons that that readslist is crazy bad, etc) to come to a conclusion not supported by the premises because the premises themselves are w r o n g

not to mention i dont even see how "i have this dumb unsupported belief on someone, isnt that weird you guys" is scummy to begin with since it just makes me a damn target but w/e

i really dont got anything else for you all and at this stage im really sure this ml is going through regardless of anything i say or do. schadd_ is my best lead, when i inevitably flip green go after him imo. if that is a ml then we didnt deserve to win from where im at

oh and re: me trying to make players think about the game a certain way: re-read 1024. everyone was thinking everyones town except for a conftown slot (tb) and me (also town), which means that everyone was thinking wrong, /QED/, the argument is plain and simple and out in the open and the logic holds regardless of your opinions on what my alignment is or how my play is. it lasted throughout d1 because the townblock kept trying to crystallize around the two lurkslots (after tb and my slot it was tb and shade with most of the remaining slots treated as conftown -- tb was town, ergo townreads were STILL incorrect, QED, even AND ESPECIALLY mine)

at least now people have a few /different/ ideas on who is town and who is scum. shame im the one thing they all agree on but w/e, theres a chance town can come back after my ml, wincon isnt entirely out the window just because im dead for all practical purposes

[mattblackguy]

UNVOTE: Cass

I'm going to sleep and I'm still not sure how I feel. I need to rethink a lot of things. Only thing I'm feeling good about is that Giga, Creature, and Rask are Town. We need to be certain about 1 more Town to win the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why are two of your super townreads my second and third biggest scumread?
Neither Giga nor Creature's play has justified any sort of townread on them and I'm leaning pretty heavily that scum is Cass/Creature right now anyway.
I'm starting to get a sinking feeling that Cass is town and I replaced into a scum sweep.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright big guns here.

VOTE: Creature

I don't think that we win after a cass lynch even if she's scum. I did some digging and it would be insanely uncharacteristic of Grey to replace in and hard bus a scumbuddy.
I am 100% positive that Schadd is town here and I have only once been wrong on a townread of this nature and it was on someone who basically stalked my mafia play for months to understand how to beat me. Raskol is confirmed. Mattblack is probably town.
Someone who is heavily townread is scum and they are who we need to lynch today.

[RadiantCowbells]

If we lynch Cass, Cass flips scum, and I get confirmed as town via track, are you guys willing to sheep my vote tomorrow? Because otherwise I don't want to vote Cass today.

[cassielle]

for a minute there i thought maybe we could actually scumhunt properly (yknow instead of trying to pick the easiest player to build a case on when QED all of our townreads are messed up) but im p sure most of town is going to take that deal in 1096 because im easiest target

only issue is that im gonna flip green

im standing by 1092

im also gonna say that ... TOWN: regardless of your opinion on his reads: RadiantCowbell's post 1095 is /mandatory reading/
there will be a /test/
seriously, reread that post until it is burned into your brain
your town block contains one or both scum
you need to lynch them before you run out of MLs
today is the best time but im willing and ready to go down as a martyr on this so you can get it right d3*
again: you are townreading scum, period

*-this is partially because somehow and i dont know how, i have no credibility here anymore, so ive given up on being able to save myself. its not MyLo or LyLo so idc too much.

[schadd_]

for a minute there i thought maybe we could actually scumhunt properly (yknow instead of trying to pick the easiest player to build a case on when QED all of our townreads are messed up) but im p sure most of town is going to take that deal in 1096 because im easiest target

only issue is that im gonna flip green

im standing by 1092

im also gonna say that ... TOWN: regardless of your opinion on his reads: RadiantCowbell's post 1095 is /mandatory reading/
there will be a /test/
seriously, reread that post until it is burned into your brain
your town block contains one or both scum
you need to lynch them before you run out of MLs
today is the best time but im willing and ready to go down as a martyr on this so you can get it right d3*
again: you are townreading scum, period

*-this is partially because somehow and i dont know how, i have no credibility here anymore, so ive given up on being able to save myself. its not MyLo or LyLo so idc too much.

i have thought about it for 29 hours and determined that this post is meaningless

[cassielle]

if its meaningless to say "someone in your townblock is very probably scum and very few players are acting at all aware of this, yall need to get up and scumhunt instead of finding an easy lynch" then i can accept meaningless

but i think saying that ^ is meaningless isnt very town regardless

still really feeling my vote on you friend. idk how youre getting townreads and im hoping at least one of your major townreaders can see where us who doubt you are coming from.

IN CASE MY ONE SENTENCE SUMMARY ABOVE IS STILL UNCLEAR:

as of today ive seen scumhunting from radiant, creature and rask.

gbt came up with a fav scumteam early in the day on the basis of their very-very-likely-incorrect townblock and never reconsidered.
schadd_ has contributed little or nothing to discussion other than fluffposting, a vote and some real low-content NAI stuff at my posts.
grey has contributed little to nothing of substance to the discussion at all aside from responding to some interrogation from rask.
mbg has mostly been trying to understand others peoples reads it seems, and voted me then unvoted me on the back of other players high content posts (1 per vote) with little actual contribution himself

3 people have actively been looking at any other slots but mine d2 -- which means that 3 people are gonna have the remotest clue on steps to take when i flip green, and everyone else is going to be literal days behind in the gamestate because yall are so damn attached to your townblocks jfc

that is the meaning of 1097, and if you can still consider it meaningless then idk what to say, thats about as plain and obvious as it gets right there, town is not acting in towns best interests no matter which of you are actually town

and no just because a couple people are having doubts and im at l-3 does not mean i am feeling safe. im still the easy lynch from where im sitting and im expecting the wagon to rebuild on some ill-considered reasoning or another before long, so im coming at this like im just waiting for night to fall atm