Timeshift Mafia III [Game Over]

[James3]

Alright, everyone claim your role immediately.

I'm a 1-Shot Cop.

[James3]

THIS IS KAINTEPES CRUMB:::::

snip

What is your role?

[James3]

There's this thing called Random Town.

[James3]

Okay I need to figure out if you're stupid, ignorant, or scum. So tell me ssbm, what if anything so you know about my game history?

[James3]

Okay I need to figure out if you're stupid, ignorant, or scum. So tell me ssbm, what if anything do you know about my game history?

Fixed

[James3]

I don't know anything about your games, we've never played together and I don't usually read completed games

Okay so you're simply ignorant/unaware, not unintelligent.

You see, I came here from the ToS Forum Mafia section. For about a year I played Mafia on that forum, and by the end I was without a doubt the most skilled active player there. Eventually the disparity was so vast that I had to be banned to keep things fair for the rest of the players (officially it was for abrasiveness, as many of their players suffer from SSS and my personality conflicted with that).

Anyway, I always claim day one (and yes it was serious, for those that didn't understand that), and press others for their claims. I do this for the purpose of analyzing the behavior of others to determine if they are scum or town. Already I'm picking apart your posts and those of others for a level of analysis that is probably higher than you could comprehend.

[James3]

Appealing to meta after being cc'ed...

I'm good with lynching James.

Yes, already.

VOTE: James3

Serious vote is serious.

-G

I've determined with a very high degree of probability that this is scum.

VOTE: Xanth

[James3]

I don't know anything about your games, we've never played together and I don't usually read completed games

You see, I came here from the ToS Forum Mafia section. For about a year I played Mafia on that forum, and by the end I was without a doubt the most skilled active player there. Eventually the disparity was so vast that I had to be banned to keep things fair for the rest of the players (officially it was for abrasiveness, as many of their players suffer from SSS and my personality conflicted with that).

Are you a KainTepes alt?

No. This is my only account on this site.

[James3]

In case anyone would like to give meta-analyzing me a go (lol good luck), my username on ToS was James2.

[James3]

That's not an ad hominem. Saying "you are ignorant, therefore you're wrong" is an ad hom. Simply making a diagnosis isn't a fallacy because it isn't an argument. This is basic logic.

I didn't say ToS, I said ToS FM. Site metas aside, FM is FM.

There's a high probability that you're scum because your behavior (well, Grey's mainly) is very unlikely to be from a town member. The behavior or potential behavior of others is besides the point.

[James3]

Well, I guess you aren't trolling James.

VOTE: James

Behavior is NAI. Could you explain the scum motivation behind LAX's attack on your play so far? I'm not getting a plea for town cred vibe so far from them in finding how you've decided to open RVS scummy.

The claim that I was appealing to meta was flagrantly dishonest. I merely asked ssbm. There's no reason for a town member to seriously push a lynch for what I said and it doesn't appear to be explained by simple unseriousness or bad play.

Um, it's the insults and attitude I am having a problem with. It looks bad. I don't care about the you're wrong or right. It looks as if you're purposely trying not to get along and you're trying to be anti-town.
And we don't do those claiming strategies here. Adapt.
And what probability bullshit. I can say the exact same thing from your behavoir. Grey's behavoir is based on his playstyle, so if you're calling his playstyle scummy, that in itself is scummy.
-Ali

Noting that someone is unfamiliar with my meta isn't an insult. Thicken your skin.

They didn't do that claiming strategy on the ToS forums either. I don't mindlessly follow the herd.

And that Grey is unvoting me now that he realized it'll be hard to lynch me, only further shows that the push was opportunistic and therefore indicative of his being scum.

[James3]

Lol at Grey trying to bus his scumbuddy. Unless the town strongly prefers otherwise, I'd prefer to get Grey first and then Uzi.

[James3]

So you're admitting that pushing cop claims is scummy. Would you like to add any other details to your confession?

[James3]

Also, here's another bit of flagrant dishonesty from Grey. He purportedly unvoted me because he realized that my cop claim was serious. But his original reason for voting me was that a had "responded with meta" to a CC. But if, as Grey claims to have thought, my claim were not serious, then I would not have actually been responding to a CC. So Grey has admitted that he was either being dishonest in his original reason for voting me, dishonest in his reason for unvoting, or both.

[James3]

And that Grey is unvoting me now that he realized it'll be hard to lynch me, only further shows that the push was opportunistic and therefore indicative of his being scum.

Looks like conf bias to me. Considering 6 players had posted so far, one was an ego poster not in the game yet, one was you, and 3 of the remaining 4 were voting you, I don't think you looked hard to lynch, so what makes you think the motivation behind Grey head's unvote was that you're hard to lynch?

pedit:well Grey's already explained the unvote I guess. Answer anyways if you could though, it'd be helpful

It is not easy to lynch a serious cop claim on day one. That three players were voting me does not change this reality.

[James3]

So you're admitting that pushing cop claims is scummy. Would you like to add any other details to your confession?

Yeah, I'll save you some time on your read. Start here

Subject: Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

Cop claims don't die d1 period, even if they're shitty claims.

Doing so denies town information if the claimer actually is a cop and actually does live through the night due to a protective role.

Only Scum has the need to see a cop claim lynched because not doing so forces you to shoot me and pray I'm not protected.

Want to find scum? Start with those who have pushed for my lynch today

after

my claim.

-G

So rather than actually try to act in the best interest of the town, you are admitting that you were just trying to avoid being seen as scummy (and thus avoid being lynched).

[James3]

James I'm still waiting for this analysis.
-Ali

I've given you a taste. That's sufficient.

Or does your framer need to know who I'm checking?

So you're admitting that pushing cop claims is scummy. Would you like to add any other details to your confession?

Yeah, I'll save you some time on your read. Start here

Subject: Mini Normal 1862 - Town win.

Cop claims don't die d1 period, even if they're shitty claims.

Doing so denies town information if the claimer actually is a cop and actually does live through the night due to a protective role.

Only Scum has the need to see a cop claim lynched because not doing so forces you to shoot me and pray I'm not protected.

Want to find scum? Start with those who have pushed for my lynch today

after

my claim.

-G

So rather than actually try to act in the best interest of the town, you are admitting that you were just trying to avoid being seen as scummy (and thus avoid being lynched).

I'm tired of trying to talk to you because all you care about is sung your agenda down my throat instead of actually trying to sort me.

Go to hell.

-G

Not my fault that you claimed scum.

Also James, why would you rather have us instead of Uzi?
They are the one that hopped on your wagon after you said to take your claim seriously, did they not?
-Ali

While unlikely, there is a greater probability that they are just a bad town player (how experienced is Uzi btw?) than there is for you. I've seen townies jump on existing wagons in ways that appear to be scum opportunistic before, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility, although doing it to a cop claim would require a profound lack of skill from a town member. OTOH, I see basically no way that you're town.

Nah thats me Uzi
-Ali

I remember the monster in your avi getting banned just before I quit and people losing their shit

Lol
But I want you to talk to me about the gamestate. Cause your vote was sorta oppertunistic.
Why did you hop onto the wagon on James after he confirmed his claim was real?

-Ali

I didn't like his vote for you after it was confirmed he wasn't trolling.

Why does him confirming his claim was real make you feel my vote was opportunistic? He's in no danger of being lynched and I don't have to believe his claim.

A scum member could very easily see the wagon building up and not make the connection that a cop claim is inherently unlikely to be lynched day one. People momentarily forgot little obvious things all the time.

[James3]

I've given you a taste. That's sufficient.

Or does your framer need to know who I'm checking?

I don't think there is a framer in the game considering I don't believe the game is bastard. Hold on, let me check.
And I don't see how hiding analysis is pro town. If you genuinely believe in seeing my lynch at the end of the day, you'll pull out everything you got to get me lynched.

@MOD Is this game bastard?

You're town slipping way too hard.

While unlikely, there is a greater probability that they are just a bad town player (how experienced is Uzi btw?) than there is for you. I've seen townies jump on existing wagons in ways that appear to be scum opportunistic before, so it's not beyond the realm of possibility, although doing it to a cop claim would require a profound lack of skill from a town member. OTOH, I see basically no way that you're town.

This makes no sense to me. You're basicly saying that because he jumped on you after the cop claim makes him bad town? If so I guess that makes sense. If not, explain it to me like I am a pre-schooler.

-Ali.

PEDIT: LOL HI TYWIN
Pedit2: Eh yeah I guess I can agree with you

UNVOTE:

Because he jumped on me after the cop claim, he's very probably scum. But there's an offchance of him being a VI, and that offchance is greater for him than it is for you.

[James3]

Because he jumped on me after the cop claim, he's very probably scum. But there's an offchance of him being a VI, and that offchance is greater for him than it is for you.

Well Grey jumped on you after the cop claim as well. So did Kyouko and Camm. Does that make us all scum? Does that make us VI? What makes or breaks the difference between being VI and/or being scum in this case?

-Ali

Kyouko's vote and fake CC could've been a town-motivated reaction test. It doesn't indicate either alignment for him. Grey is more clearly scum than Uzi or Comm because he made bad faith arguments along with his vote, that highly contraindicates being newbsheep. Uzi and Comm are both basically in the same boat, though I'd scumread Uzi a bit more because he's obstinate, whereas newbsheep usually will retract after being called out.

[James3]

Okay I just checked Comm's profile and searched his posting history. Apparently he's brand new on this site and hasn't played FM in several years. Reasonless sheeping isn't alignment indicative for complete newbs. I retain a slight scumread on him because I was a claimed cop when he voted me, but he doesn't rank near Uzi and Grey, unless he convinces me that he's scum when he comes back.

Because he jumped on me after the cop claim, he's very probably scum. But there's an offchance of him being a VI, and that offchance is greater for him than it is for you.

Well Grey jumped on you after the cop claim as well. So did Kyouko and Camm. Does that make us all scum? Does that make us VI? What makes or breaks the difference between being VI and/or being scum in this case?

-Ali

Kyouko's vote and fake CC could've been a town-motivated reaction test. It doesn't indicate either alignment for him. Grey is more clearly scum than Uzi or Comm because he made bad faith arguments along with his vote, that highly contraindicates being newbsheep. Uzi and Comm are both basically in the same boat, though I'd scumread Uzi a bit more because he's obstinate, whereas newbsheep usually will retract after being called out.

Oh really? Cause Kyouko says exactly what he was trying to accomplish with his vote here:

No I didn't take his claim seriously nor is my claim serious, it was a joke vote

He also stated it was RVS earlier.

-Ali

You're not particularly bright.

[James3]

You're not particularly bright.

Okay that's not actually fair. You're giving the appearance of being unintelligent, though since you're scum it could just be an act.

[James3]

My point is he said it was a joke and you read it as a reaction test, but the fact that you decide to descredit me as well as throw shade at me instead of attempting to fight the arguement is shitty.
And this is a hydra. If you are reading Grey's play as scummy, how do you read the Alisae's head play as?
Also give me a reason to believe you aren't conf biasing us.

-Ali

If anyone who isn't confirmed scum would like me to explain the bit about Kyouko's post, I will. Otherwise, you'll have to live with lack of understanding.

You and Grey are the same alignment by necessity. There's no need to independently read you two.

As an occasional ToS and IRL player, there it's pretty common to massclaim even on D1, as the "day" phase lasts like 3 to 5 minutes

What on Earth are you talking about?

The ToS game (which is not what I've been referring to, at any point in this game) has a D1 that lasts 15 seconds. Massclaiming is impossible in that time. ToS FM has a 24 hour D1, during which massclaiming is possible, but never done.

[James3]

I'm modding my first game and this is the second game I've played on-site. So my familiarity with site meta is somewhat minimal. But that's besides the point, as my strategies didn't agree with ToS FM meta either, and I didn't let that affect me.

As for Zekro, he seems to both lack reading comprehension and simply not know what he's talking about in general. For some inexplicable reason, he believes that when I said that I played Mafia on the ToS forums, I was actually stating that I played ToS (which I do, but there's no parity between ToS and any sort of FM, so I left that unmentioned for lack of relevance). Moreover, despite speaking about it as if he did, he knows nothing about ToS, and is obviously lying about having played it (though I can't fathom why). Day one in ToS always lasts fifteen seconds without exception. And massclaiming on day one is not even possible, much less common.

[James3]

Reading is wonderful people.

I said my experience comes from playing Forum Mafia on the ToS forums, not ToS itself.

[James3]

I'm now scumreading Comm stronger than Uzi.

[James3]

Reading is wonderful people.

I said my experience comes from playing Forum Mafia on the ToS forums, not ToS itself.

Then they play really bad Forum Mafia on the ToS forum lol.

Why do you say that?

[James3]

First of all, still don't have the time to write a detailed post (and I'm pretty slow at getting into mafia games, 6 pages for me still look like not enough information even though there's plenty). Real life is a pain in the back entrance.

Second of all,

James did something so scummy it looks towny

. Claiming on D1 looks so fake no sane scumplayer would do it, as to not look scummy.

Third of all, sorry for the misunderstanding about James's ToS experience. Thought he was talking about ToS game, not ToS Forum Mafia. (Also, not playing ToS since the last time I opened Steam, which is like 6 months ago - I checked after posting and yes, D1 lasts 15 seconds).

Asking questions, so that I have something to analyze when I can get on to it tomorrow (aside from the normal posts in the thread)
@ssbm_Kyouko: What reaction did you expect from your fake counterclaim?
@James3: Some non-meta reason for claiming D1 (especially since your result comes in N2, with an higher risk of being lynched before it comes in if people don't believe you, or being nightkilled by a timeshifted killing role N1 or a normal killing role N2)? Basically, explain your strategy like I'm 5.
@CommKnight: I can understand the reasoning behind you believing his claim is fake, but why do you think he'd have claimed D1? Basically, couldn't it be a town falseclaim (if it's good or bad play, it's not what we're discussing here)? Is there any reason that makes you think that he is specifically scum?

@Everyone: If you could daykill someone right now, who would it be? (Looks like a weird question, but it has its reasons).

Voting between tomorrow morning and tomorrow afternoon.

tl;dr: James is so scummy he may be town, asking some questions, everyone state someone he'd daykill right now because I have some weird method of getting information based on asking random questions to people

I always claim day one. It provides ample information for me to read people off of.

[James3]

Reading is wonderful people.

I said my experience comes from playing Forum Mafia on the ToS forums, not ToS itself.

Then they play really bad Forum Mafia on the ToS forum lol.

Why do you say that?

I'm judging from your actions and way of playing.

It's tipical ToS play from waht I read. You kinda remind me of Grey in a bit tho.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit apparently.

[James3]

I always claim day one. It provides ample information for me to read people off of.

What do you claim if you are scum?

I fakeclaim as scum obviously.

[James3]

Okay, so Comm is confirmed scum.

UNVOTE: Xanth
VOTE: Comm

If he really were cop he would've immediately CCed.

[James3]

Okay, so Comm is confirmed scum.

UNVOTE: Xanth
VOTE: Comm

If he really were cop he would've immediately CCed.

Do you seriously think for half a second that there isn't a second investigative role if you're a 1-shot cop?

This shit is redonkulous. No investigative claims are getting lynched on day fucking one.

-G

If he were really a role cop, and he really believed that was incompatible with me being a 1-Shot Cop, he would have claimed it immediately. He didn't, ergo he's lying.

[James3]

Grey is really trying hard to save his scumbuddy.

[James3]

Grey is really trying hard to save his scumbuddy.

Says the guy who Grey is trying to stop from being lynched. Nice job throwing him under the bus with yourself.

He likely believes that my mislynch would implicate you (which it would). I'd guess he prefers for us both to stay alive as long as possible so as to nullify my ability without you being lynched.

[James3]

ToS doesn't have the best reputation so he may just be blindly carrying some of his bad or in this case, controversial habits over.

Again, my tactics are not representative of ToS, and they in fact caused much consternation while I was there.

Though yes, they are as terrible as everyone says.

[James3]

Though yes, they are as terrible as everyone says.

They referring to the playerbase on ToS.

[James3]

He's a 1-shot cop. He could screw up his one shot. He's not a big loss. If his claim is true and we lynched him, big deal. It would be worth it not to listen to his snippiness for the entire game. I'd be willing to lynch him just so the rest of the game can be fun.

So SlySly claims scum. That makes things easy.

VOTE: SLySly

We can get the others tomorrow.

[James3]

He wants to lynch someone he's TRing. That makes him basically confirmed scum.

[James3]

Is life ever that simple

Sometimes it is. For example, the man in my profile picture could have sat around arguing with himself about whether or not the commies really intended to destroy the fabric of Spanish society. But he didn't, they were confirmed scum (literally) so he killed them.

[James3]

He's a 1-shot cop. He could screw up his one shot. He's not a big loss. If his claim is true and we lynched him, big deal. It would be worth it not to listen to his snippiness for the entire game. I'd be willing to lynch him just so the rest of the game can be fun.

So SlySly claims scum. That makes things easy.

VOTE: SLySly

We can get the others tomorrow.

That's strange. You start pushing them for the same reasons we push them? And you still SR us, right?
Not to mention what makes you think they aren't just bad town?
Also give me a read on Pep please.
With Love, Alisae

You're either bussing or one of you is neutral.

Bad town still want to win, they just aren't good at it. All I'm assuming is that he isn't a gamethrower.

All I can tell about Pep right now is that he seems to be unintelligent. Alignment-wise he's null.

[James3]

I want SlySly to claim now.

[James3]

Point taken.

My concern is that he'll claim something important shortly before the day ends in order to try to cause a nolynch.

[James3]

That's fair enough, but what's to say he'll be the one lynched today?

One would hope that claimed scum would get lynched the same day.

[James3]

he'll claim something important shortly before the day ends in order to try to cause a nolynch.

Way to burst my bubble. I was hoping to surprise everyone.

Claim. Now.

@James3, CommKnight, AnyoneWhoClaimedOrWantsToClaim:

If you are really your role, why do you think claiming D1 is a good idea?

.
@James3: Yes, I know, meta. But either you're bad town or hiding behind meta, no one sane would ever claim TWO DAYS BEFORE HIS FIRST RESULT. Zekromaster would like some more practical and logical answer, as he thinks "meta" isn't the real reason behing that claim.

I always claim day one. You can check my references if you like. I do it because I find it to be a profitable game strategy, as it provokes all sorts of reactions that allow me to get reads on people.

[James3]

he'll claim something important shortly before the day ends in order to try to cause a nolynch.

Way to burst my bubble. I was hoping to surprise everyone.

Claim. Now.

Are you claiming quintuple-voter here?
bcuz to me it looks like Sly is at L-6

Good as time as any to claim.

he'll claim something important shortly before the day ends in order to try to cause a nolynch.

Way to burst my bubble. I was hoping to surprise everyone.

Claim. Now.

@James3, CommKnight, AnyoneWhoClaimedOrWantsToClaim:

If you are really your role, why do you think claiming D1 is a good idea?

.
@James3: Yes, I know, meta. But either you're bad town or hiding behind meta, no one sane would ever claim TWO DAYS BEFORE HIS FIRST RESULT. Zekromaster would like some more practical and logical answer, as he thinks "meta" isn't the real reason behing that claim.

I always claim day one. You can check my references if you like. I do it because I find it to be a profitable game strategy, as it provokes all sorts of reactions that allow me to get reads on people.

I: "Don't answer with meta!"
James3: [Some more meta plus "it just works!"]

That you do not have the skill to comprehend my strategy does not invalidate it.

[James3]

James stop role fishing please. If you want the claim, help people get on the Sly wagon.

He is scum. Whatever role he's going to claim will not be his real one.

Please, go ahead and vote him.

[James3]

@James
who are your town-reads?

ssbm seems town

[James3]

I've been kind of busy IRL. Could someone summarize briefly why the biggest wagon is on Pep, rather thank SlySly?

Did he claim scum too, or are people just being bad?

[James3]

I've been kind of busy IRL. Could someone summarize briefly why the biggest wagon is on Pep, rather than SlySly?

Did he claim scum too, or are people just being bad?

[James3]

I've been kind of busy IRL. Could someone summarize briefly why the biggest wagon is on Pep, rather thank SlySly?

Did he claim scum too, or are people just being bad?

Why do you keep asking people to claim when they have no reason to?

Because it benefits the town when scum are forced to claim.

Also, the post you quoted did not include a request for a claim.

Also, what is your role claim?

@James
who are your town-reads?

ssbm seems town

Any others?

Also, what did you learn about other players from their reactions to your first post claim?

^plz answer

VOTE: James

I learned that SlySly, Comm, LoX, and Uzi are scum. I learned that ssbm and Ramcius are very probably town. I don't make "light" reads.

[James3]

I learned that SlySly, Comm, LoX, and Uzi are scum. I learned that ssbm and Ramcius are very probably town. I don't make "light" reads.

4 hard scum reads
2 hard town reads
but not really pushing anything?
you got a link to this other site you played on?

I've been pushing SlySly for a while.

http://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=17

[James3]

I've been pushing SlySly for a while.

Looks more like defending yourself than pushing a desired lynch

Do you have any questions about why he should be lynched?

He made the case for me, it's only a question of whether the majority of the town wants to pursue victory or not.

[James3]

I see that SlySly has changed from claiming scum to claiming jester. Frankly I don't buy it.

I have, for the record, been busy IRL, which is why my posting level dropped off.

Anyway, the lynch deadline snuck up on me too. While I don't have a real read on Pep, the fact that the biggest wagon is on him despite another player having scumclaimed indicates that he more than likely is town, being pushed by mafia desperate to save their buddy. I would strongly advise the town to switch the lynch to SlySly ASAP.

[James3]

I see that SlySly has changed from claiming scum to claiming jester. Frankly I don't buy it.

I love when people twist things I say into something that I didn't say.

You stated expressly that you had been trying to get yourself lynched.

[James3]

You stated expressly that you had been trying to get yourself lynched.

I specifically stated I was still playing to my wincon.

So you claimed that your wincon was advanced by getting lynched. As I said, a jester claim.

I didn't re-read, but I want a Ram lynch for infoz after these last two pages.


VOTE: Ram

I've got a new scumread.

[James3]

Okay town, it's time to get serious. After carefully reviewing the Pep wagon, I've determined that it's nonsense. I can't say for a certain fact that he's town, but he's definitely not mafia. The wagon being built on him is clearly designed by relatively intelligent scum getting bad towns to sheep them. If you're town, you need to get off of it now. I haven't lookd into the Skelda wagon in the same detail, but at first glance it appears to be the same. Now, given this, I can conlcude with a high degree of probability that the mafia has day chat.

Now, while lynching SlySly is unequivocally the right option, since we're nearing the deadline I would be willling to lynch my weaker scumread Uzi.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Join this wagon.

[James3]

Okay town, it's time to get serious. After carefully reviewing the Pep wagon, I've determined that it's nonsense. I can't say for a certain fact that he's town, but he's definitely not mafia. The wagon being built on him is clearly designed by relatively intelligent scum getting bad towns to sheep them. If you're town, you need to get off of it now. I haven't lookd into the Skelda wagon in the same detail, but at first glance it appears to be the same. Now, given this, I can conlcude with a high degree of probability that the mafia has day chat.

Now, while lynching SlySly is unequivocally the right option, since we're nearing the deadline I would be willling to lynch my weaker scumread Uzi.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Join this wagon.

Lil asked to be replaced, so probably town, scum is in good position in dead game like this and not much reason to leave like that

Is there any evidence to believe that that was a tactical replacement? If not then we must assume it was due to IRL circumstances, and thus not alignment indicative.

[James3]

"Not feeling the game" could come from either town or scum. As I said, not alignment indicative.

[James3]

I can't say for a certain fact that he's town, but he's definitely not mafia.

if he's not mafia how is he not town?

That's an interesting conundrum. I'll leave you to figure it out.

Hello everyone and shit I have three days to catch up and do something. Reading thru thread rn, if anyone has a brief summary I'd appreciate it.

Who are your scumbuddies?

Does anyone ever really double check?

I checked because I was so affronted by his strategy but usually I just ignore secondhand meta and go with what I've seen myself.

My issue with James is that when the game started he claimed, then was all gung-ho when his claim was doubted, and said he claimed to because he always does when town, and I ask him if he fake-claimed as scum, and he said yes, then kind of vanished.

His scumhunting has been limited to anyone doubting him, and his claim is kind of the only reason he is still alive.

Query, are you not reading the thread, or are you a liar?

[James3]

Firebringer isn't scum (probably anyway). He's just bad at making decisions in general.

[James3]

Query, are you not reading the thread, or are you a liar?

Prove me wrong.

VI read on this one

[James3]

Firebringer is obvtown.

VOTE: LoX

This is a scum lynch, and possible to actually accomplish today.

[James3]

Okay RC is utterly terrible. If it weren't for the obvscum wagon on Pep I would definitely scumread him, but it's pretty clear he's just bad town. I would strenuously ask ssbm and the other town on him to move their votes off.

LoX is still a fine lynch.

[James3]

VOTE: SlySly

I'm surprised about LoX being town, in any case that flip doesn't change the fact that SlySly is claimed scum.

Not that I have any real doubts, but I checked Comm last night. I'll receive a result on him tomorrow.

[James3]

Comm, I want to lock you in to a specific action claim today. Who did you check?

[James3]

VOTE: SlySly

I'm surprised about LoX being town, in any case that flip doesn't change the fact that SlySly is claimed scum.

Not that I have any real doubts, but I checked Comm last night. I'll receive a result on him tomorrow.

Why is SlySly claimed scum

We've been over this repeatedly. He stated that he townread me but wanted me lynched, and later said that he had been trying to get himself lynched.

You were eyeing the soft claim up and giving it more credit than Tywin or I were. To us it seemed nothing more than a player being cocky about their play. But to a scum, it would've been a true claim of a town PR and a scum would easily give it more credit than what it was worth at face value.

Why are you talking about the soft claim? I posted 1773 after LoX said this:

Remember where we claimed investigative?

Here's another juicy tidbit: we're not timeshifted.

We'll be confirmed tomorrow. That's why I givez a DAMN about the scum jumping on superficial bullshit to mislynch us

@Comm
Did I miss your reply?

Honestly, that can be made up bullshit by town or scum. The ONLY people I think that would've taken him serious is scum who know the hydra wasn't on your team. Myself and others read it as annoyance at the wagon forming on them/fake claim to get the wagon off.

Honestly, with how big of a deal you're making of it, makes me wonder if you really were paying that much attention for PRs that perhaps you could off them. Got my eye on you for now, but there's enough other shit going on to leave my vote off... for now.

VOTE: James

Biggest waste of ability and I really don't like how next to zero people even talk about this fella or have even commented on his choice for his ability if he's serious. Heck, or even the demand he's made.

lol

[James3]

Can anyone give a cogent reason why SlySly should not be lynched?

[James3]

Can anyone give a cogent reason why SlySly should not be lynched?

There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and fuck one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and fuck 'em all".

I asked if anyone had a cogent reason why he shouldn't be lynched. Not a proverb.

[James3]

Can anyone give a cogent reason why SlySly should not be lynched?

There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and fuck one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and fuck 'em all".

I asked if anyone had a cogent reason why he shouldn't be lynched. Not a proverb.

No, I cannot provide a reason not to do an action.

Do you think CommKnight will come back as scum or town?

That's what I thought.

Obviously scum.

[James3]

RC replaced Pep, who was confirmed not mafia. Unless someone has a specific reason to SK-read RC, he shouldn't be today's lynch.

[James3]

@james
I also want this explained

RC replaced Pep, who was confirmed not mafia.

How was Pep confirmed not mafia?

The wagon on Pep was obviously manufactured by mafia. They had no reason to bus, therefore etc.

[James3]

Okay, RC is extremely scummy. I didn't realize she claimed SK, but now that I do I'm willing to lynch him. Even as a joke, it's enough to push her over the lynch line for me. She can't be mafia, but her play does not at all seem town.

Her wagon is still of course, designed by the mafia. Lol at how the mafia and SK decided to go after each other in thread.

VOTE: RC

[James3]

So RC quit over being scumread. Honestly that indicates neutral to me. Neither town nor mafia would just up and quit over being lynched.

The ssbm is definitely scum pushed.

[James3]

@james
I also want this explained

RC replaced Pep, who was confirmed not mafia.

How was Pep confirmed not mafia?

The wagon on Pep was obviously manufactured by mafia. They had no reason to bus, therefore etc.

Okay, RC is extremely scummy. I didn't realize she claimed SK, but now that I do I'm willing to lynch him. Even as a joke, it's enough to push her over the lynch line for me. She can't be mafia, but her play does not at all seem town.

Her wagon is still of course, designed by the mafia. Lol at how the mafia and SK decided to go after each other in thread.

VOTE: RC

I'm ~sure you realize Pep is RC. So much for that confirmed not mafia read eh? smh.

respond to this plox.

The only thing I could think to say in response to that, is that the person who posted it is seriously lacking in critical reasoning skills.

VC 2.8 (2/13/17)

TTTT [L-8]

Tywin Lannister

RadiantCowbells [L-4]

PeregrineV, Havingfitz, Nero Cain, RadiantCowbells, James3

SlySly [L-8]

TheFuzzylogic99

Vifam [L-8]

Ramcius

TheFuzzylogic99 [L-7]

ssbm_Kyouko, XnadrojX

James3 [L-8]

Zekromaster

ssbm_Kyouko [L-5]

CommKnight, TTTT, Vifam, Elena Fisher

Tywin Lannister [L-8]

SlySly

Deadline is 6pm on Sunday February 19th, in (expired on 2017-02-19 18:00:00).

*Edited to remove slots with no votes

all you single-voters need to consolidate on real wagons
doing otherwise is pretty much a scum-claim at this point

4
DAYS


STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SHEEPING AND DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR VOTE

Makes since that you'd take this approach. Now that you've come out hard against the SK slot, it has every reason to retaliate and kill off mafia if it makes it tonight.

[James3]

@james
I also want this explained

RC replaced Pep, who was confirmed not mafia.

How was Pep confirmed not mafia?

The wagon on Pep was obviously manufactured by mafia. They had no reason to bus, therefore etc.

Okay, RC is extremely scummy. I didn't realize she claimed SK, but now that I do I'm willing to lynch him. Even as a joke, it's enough to push her over the lynch line for me. She can't be mafia, but her play does not at all seem town.

Her wagon is still of course, designed by the mafia. Lol at how the mafia and SK decided to go after each other in thread.

VOTE: RC

I'm ~sure you realize Pep is RC. So much for that confirmed not mafia read eh? smh.

respond to this plox.

The only thing I could think to say in response to that, is that the person who posted it is seriously lacking in critical reasoning skills.

VC 2.8 (2/13/17)

TTTT [L-8]

Tywin Lannister

RadiantCowbells [L-4]

PeregrineV, Havingfitz, Nero Cain, RadiantCowbells, James3

SlySly [L-8]

TheFuzzylogic99

Vifam [L-8]

Ramcius

TheFuzzylogic99 [L-7]

ssbm_Kyouko, XnadrojX

James3 [L-8]

Zekromaster

ssbm_Kyouko [L-5]

CommKnight, TTTT, Vifam, Elena Fisher

Tywin Lannister [L-8]

SlySly

Deadline is 6pm on Sunday February 19th, in (expired on 2017-02-19 18:00:00).

*Edited to remove slots with no votes

all you single-voters need to consolidate on real wagons
doing otherwise is pretty much a scum-claim at this point

4
DAYS


STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SHEEPING AND DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR VOTE

Makes since that you'd take this approach. Now that you've come out hard against the SK slot, it has every reason to retaliate and kill off mafia if it makes it to tonight.

[James3]

Okay, I'm going to make an offer to whoever fills the RC slot, if you claim SK and agree to act as a town pet, you will not be lynched until after we've eliminated the mafia.

[James3]

Then I suppose that observation applies to you as well.

[James3]

Must we mislynch?

I'd prefer to lynch the SK instead of a town member.

[James3]

We have 3+ days left. There is no reason whatsoever for anyone who prefers an RC lynch to be voting ssbm. There's still plenty of time to switch the lynch back to RC.

[James3]

Comm is guilty. There is now no reason to delay lynching him.

VOTE: CommKnight

[James3]

Note that Comm's offer deliberately precludes him proving that hes actually a rolecop (not that that would prove his alignment). If he just town-confirms someone, that won't show that he knows their role. If he simply states that a role is in the game, there will be no way to disprove it.

[James3]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p8900267]I think they are both Town TBF.[/quote]

Apparently you didn't read my post. I got a guilty result on Comm. He is confirmed scum.

[James3]

So we basically have two possibilities:

1. Comm is sacrificing himself in an attempt to buy towncred for his buddy Fitz, or

2. Comm knows that his action will appear as 1, and is therefore doing this to cast doubt on Town!Fitz. This could also be combined with having made a blind guess as to Fitz being town.

I think 1 is more likely, although not completely certain. In any case, Fitz and Comm are CCing each other, so they can't both be town, and since Comm declared Fitz to be confirmed town, he (Comm) can't be the town in a TvS situation. So either way Comm is confirmed scum. Note that none of this reasoning depends on my results (or on Ram's claim). The respective claims of Comm and Fitz prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Comm is scum.

@James
why didn't you wait until Comm outed his result before you claimed a guilty on him?
that makes no sense to me if you are town.

You'll need to explain your reasoning here.

None of his play makes sense as scum like he cc'd James D1 within like the first 20 pages and now he's saying he rolecopped Fitz after Ram claimed to jail him, how is any of this going to come from scum

"Too scummy to be scum" is a really bad line of argument, for obvious reasons.

[James3]

In any case, Fitz and Comm are CCing each other, so they can't both be town

Unless scum have some sort of ability to redirect actions.

Barring ad hoc hypotheticals, he's confirmed scum.

Two questions about site meta though:

1. Are Mafia Bus Drivers a thing?

2. Does Jailkeeping usually prevent Bus Driving?

In any case though, a Bus Driver happening to target the same person as Comm at random is pretty unlikely.

So we basically have two possibilities:

1. Comm is sacrificing himself in an attempt to buy towncred for his buddy Fitz, or

2. Comm knows that his action will appear as 1, and is therefore doing this to cast doubt on Town!Fitz. This could also be combined with having made a blind guess as to Fitz being town.

I think 1 is more likely, although not completely certain. In any case, Fitz and Comm are CCing each other, so they can't both be town, and since Comm declared Fitz to be confirmed town, he (Comm) can't be the town in a TvS situation. So either way Comm is confirmed scum. Note that none of this reasoning depends on my results (or on Ram's claim). The respective claims of Comm and Fitz prove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Comm is scum.

@James
why didn't you wait until Comm outed his result before you claimed a guilty on him?
that makes no sense to me if you are town.

You'll need to explain your reasoning here.

None of his play makes sense as scum like he cc'd James D1 within like the first 20 pages and now he's saying he rolecopped Fitz after Ram claimed to jail him, how is any of this going to come from scum

"Too scummy to be scum" is a really bad line of argument, for obvious reasons.

All this, when you had a night result of guilty?

Vote: James

Are you by chance in an altered mental state? Because I can't fathom why you would think it scummy to push someone I have a guilty on.

Never mind. You're just a VI.

[James3]

Also, we have no evidence there even is a vigilante.

[James3]

Could scum be any more obvious? Reminder, Comm is confirmed scum, independently of my results.

[James3]

Comm's defense depends on there being a Mafia Bus Driver who just so happened to target the same person as him at random.

[James3]

I caught you.

[James3]

I caught you.

then why weren't you killed before you could out the guilty?

Possibly Fitz tried to make the kill and was RBed. Possibly I was healed. Possibly mafia couldn't kill tonight or they deemed someone else higher priority n1.

[James3]

Comm's defense depends on there being a Mafia Bus Driver who just so happened to target the same person as him at random.

Redirector more likely. It would completely control Comm's target.

There's still no evidence of there being a vigilante (or a redirector) though.

[James3]

@James
why didn't you wait until Comm outed his result before you claimed a guilty on him?
that makes no sense to me if you are town.

This I can see both ways. It could be argued the way you're doing, or it could be argued that if he had a guilty at the start o the day why sit on it for -say- 24 hours before announcing it.

because at that point Comm had already said he had a result and was teasing the game with the info
if you are towncop!James why would you out your guilty on Comm

before

he reveals info?
from town pov you have a confirmed scum who is about to lie about a result and you preempt that?
that's terrible town play

Comm knew I would have a guilty result on him. There's no reason to think withholding it would change his claims.

[James3]

I confirmed there's a vig alive. So if James flips scum, we're good, if he flips town, well we didn't lose much and vig can kill me tonight.

There's no reason for anyone to believe that there's a vig. You are probably lying scum.

[James3]

If Comm is telling the truth, then mafia already know who the vig is. Yet Comm doesn't want the vig to reveal. There's no reason for this from Town!Comm, ergo he's scum.

[James3]

I confirmed there's a vig alive. So if James flips scum, we're good, if he flips town, well we didn't lose much and vig can kill me tonight.

There's no reason for anyone to believe that there's a vig. You are probably lying scum.

probably?

VOTE: james

From the perspective of the town in general.

[James3]

As I said before, scum are being really obvious in trying to save their buddy.

[James3]

@James
who is the full scum-team?

You know that better than I do.

[James3]

He could be your scumbuddy you're trying to help.

And if he's town you're better off (as scum) not needlessly making enemies.

[James3]

This could also be combined with having made a blind guess as to Fitz being town.

How can it be a BLIND GUESS when you claim to have a GUILTY on him (which means he knows who his own team is)??

I'm not quite sure I understand the situation anymore.

UNVOTE:

I meant taking a blind guess that he's a town power role, as opposed to VT. That is fairly evident from context.

[James3]

May I repeat, that no vig or bus driver has claimed, so Comm remains confirmed scum. Those voting me over him are basically confirmed scum as well.

[James3]

unvote

there's talk of a redirector. I'll have to reread this thing all over again

If there's a town redirector they can claim. If there's a scum redirector then vig should claim. As it is, there is no evidence that either of those things exist.

[James3]

If Comm is telling the truth, then mafia already know who the vig is. Yet Comm doesn't want the vig to reveal. There's no reason for this from Town!Comm, ergo he's scum.

And what would be Scum!Comm's reason to NOT want the vig to step forward?

There probably is no vig. It's a lie. If we all agree that the vig should come forward and they don't then Scum!Comm is screwed. Thus it's in his interest to promote the idea that the vig should stay silent, so that the non-existence of a vig claim won't look suspicious for him.

[James3]

if there's no vig how did Comm get told there's a vig?

You aren't very intelligent.

There. Is. No. Vig. He. Made. It. Up.

Do. You. Un. Der. Stand?

[James3]

Fitz may or may not be his buddy. Fitz claims VT though.

[James3]

Fitz

HAS

to be his buddy. Otherwise whats the point of arguing that Fitz is town? One possibility is that Comm was bus driven/redirected and that the vig result was not on Fitz.

It could be to make Fitz look suspicious. It's a WIFOM situation, as he had full knowledge in advance of how his behavior could be read.

I'm nobody's buddy

I don't really think you are scum. James says that you are lying about being a vt but Comm is claiming a vig result on you. I'm saying that the only way Comm was lie is if you are his buddy.

HURT: Nero

You're a worse liar than CNN.

[James3]

TTTT isn't even trying to hide that hes mafia anymore. I'm leaning mafia on Vifam, although I can't rule out him being a really really awful VI.

Reminder, Comm is claiming to have confirmed as town someone (Fitz) who counters his night results claim. So Comm is confirmed scum.

[James3]

There is a profound lack of intelligence on the part of some posters.

That a course of action would seem implausible for scum to take is a perfectly good reason for scum to take such a course of action. So these "Comm is too scummy to be scum" arguments are really really dumb.

[James3]

If there's a scum redirector then scum knows who the vig is (supposing counterfactually that Comm isn't lying). In that case, vig has no reason not to claim.

[James3]

1. Comm could be a scum rolecop

2. Comm could have taken a guess that there was a vig out there

3. You could be his buddy.

Whatever the case, he's still scum.

[James3]

I'm pretty sure Almost is a scumbuddy of Comm's. No halfway intelligent townie would tell a Cop to stop tunneling someone he found guilty.

Scum rolecops are a thing btw. Even if you buy that he's a rolecop, there's no logical reason to suppose that he's town. Moreover there's still no direct evidence that there is a Bus Driver. He could have guessed that there was a vig out there, or checked you directly (if he's actually rolecop).

Or you could be lying to save your buddy. That's probably the case.

[James3]

So Almost has now admitted that his vig claim was fake. Nice.

[James3]

Reminder, there is no evidence that Comm is town. Even if he actually is a rolecop, he's still scum.

P.S. If I get mislynched, please do not quickhammer. I'd like to hammer myself and make a final statement if that happens.

[James3]

oh well, then no reason to delay, i'm jailkeeper and jailed Havingfitz N1, timeshifted to N2

@James
what do you make of Ram saying he doesn't believe your claim
yet he isn't voting you?

That's a perfectly reasonable stance for him to take given our history.

[James3]

I'm going to just confess. I am mafia. We have a cop though, and Comm actually is guilty. So he's probably SK.

VOTE: James

[James3]

My last post was pretty clearly somewhere between a joke and a reaction test. It was fruitful though.

Anyway, I'm the Bus Driver (town). I did switch Fitz with Almost, so Comm is a rolecop, but I'm certain that he's mafia.

VOTE: CommKnight

[James3]

He believed I was a cop and wanted to mislynch me.

[James3]

First time I've ever lost an FM game as mafia. Also first game I've ever seen where town won specifically because of its incompetence.

I'm trying to analyze my play to see where I could have done better, but the only thing I can figure (that I could have had any possibility of being able to see at the time) is that I should've pressed on d3 and not given up. Aside from that all my actions seem to have been good ideas, we just had horrible luck.

Part of that luck being that Almost single-handedly won the game.

[James3]

Also first game I've ever seen where town won specifically because of its incompetence.

Just goes to show that your incompetence was even worse than town's incompetence.

What did I do that I should have done differently (aside from giving up d3)?

I mean, I probably should have mod-killed or force replaced you for gamethrowing when you claimed scum.

Especially considering your self-vote wasn't the hammer.

Modkilling for gt is a bad idea for a number of reasons.

It wasn't gt though, as I had reasons for it, and was probably hanging anyway.

What was that pause though?

[James3]

Modkilling for gamethrowing is widely considered to be accepted on this site because you're expected to play to win.

That's pretty dumb. Whether or not something is gamethrowing or not can depend on a player's role and/or alignment. Having a policy of modkilling for gt can implicitly mod-confirm otherwise non-public facts in the case of someone who could potentially be modkilled but isn't.

Self-hammering as scum is an accepted move, but self-hammering as town isn't

I assume this doesn't count near-deadline self-hammering? Because that can be necessary to prevent a NoLynch sometimes.

The best part about the Mafia QT is when Tywin is like "James I dont think you should claim" and James is like "I have to, it's my meta" is great and honestly you've gotta respect it

I had no way of knowing at the time, but if I hadn't claimed then Ramcius probably would have death tunneled me when he replaced in, given that he does know my meta.

I definitely say Nero and Tywin were the only real threats to town.

If you hadn't had that fortunate screw-up it's entirely possible that I could have gotten you lynched.

Xnad sucked though.

[James3]

I have some kickass secret alts, but James is the account I most wish was me.
James is a troll account.
Right, guys?
guys?
please?
...

I often here this accusation from lower-skill players.

It's not true though.

[James3]

James didn't play badly at all. Remember, he got almost the entire town PRs to claim. That's pretty damn good. He even got the watcher outted D1, which was the entire reason he was a ninja. I'll take it.

[James3]

I often here this accusation from lower-skill players.

"Lower-skill players"
bro, you have a 0% scum win-rate

This is literally the first game I've lost as mafia.

[James3]

And I've been playing for over a year.

[James3]

And I've been playing for over a year.

sorry hotshot.
nobody here is impressed by your Little League batting average

If I cared what others thought of my playstyle I wouldn't be the FM master that I am.

[James3]

I learned much of my skill from TheCow actually.

[James3]

Claiming scum is gamethrowing regardless of alignment.

I agree but bad town do it all the time. We live in a meta world that allows for anti-town play b/c no one has the balls to pl.

Policy lynching is a dumb tactic if you're good at reading people. There's no reason to knowingly lynch VIs.

[James3]

Claiming scum is gamethrowing regardless of alignment.

Most of the time, but I can think os several unusual cases where it isn't (such as this game). Modkilling for gt confirms the existence of such a situation if there isn't a modkill. I mean, you could argue that "no one is gamethrowing" should be modconfirmed, but really it just adds another layer to "outguess the mod".

It also is unfair to the gamethrower's teammates (who are by definition his victims).

No, it doesn't because that is a terrible thing to do as either alignment and you'd probably rather not lynch.

Nolynching is usually better than mislynching. Should be pretty obvious why.

James you really need to get a fucking grip. You're not as good as your massive ego makes you think you are.

But I am. Lower skill players often try to deny it, but that doesn't change the facts.

[James3]

I misunderstood a rule. Not sure what that has to do with my superb skill as a player.

But I guess if you don't have any valid ways to insult someone, you have to resort to red herrings.

[James3]

You "misunderstood" common knowledge norms.

What you think my knowledge of this site has to do with my skill level is not at al clear.

Attempting to minimize your colossal fuck ups does nothing to mitigate the damage you caused.

I'm not "minimizing" anything. What I'm saying is that it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

How was your play in this game "superb"? I don't see it here.

My plays were well thought ought and mostly entirely correct. That they didn't work out in this particular game doesn't really say much. No plan is perfect.

How was your play in the newbie game you played here not too long ago "superb"?

I correctly guessed every night kill as doctor.

[James3]

You "misunderstood" common knowledge norms.

What you think my knowledge of this site has to do with my skill level is not at all clear.

Attempting to minimize your colossal fuck ups does nothing to mitigate the damage you caused.

I'm not "minimizing" anything. What I'm saying is that it has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

How was your play in this game "superb"? I don't see it here.

My plays were well thought out and mostly entirely correct. That they didn't work out in this particular game doesn't really say much. No plan is perfect.

How was your play in the newbie game you played here not too long ago "superb"?

I correctly guessed every night kill as doctor.