In Memory

[drealmerz7]

mmmmm but it's not a matter of that, it's a matter of adding 2 more that kind of make your point invalid

[ɀefiend]

A summary of the case vs DEO is as follows

: SS made a Day 1, Page 1 joke about policy-lynching "Titus" in response to a Titus-joke made by Kuroi. DEO interprets this as SS wanting to seriously policy-lynch the DEO slot. Despite repeated attempts by SS to explain that it was a joke, DEO runs with it for

over 20 pages

as a legitimate reason to lynch SS. DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS. DEO also dismisses Postie's townread of SS numerous times and attempts to counter every response Postie gives questioning the meta-reads.

During all this did you ever once get the feeling that DEO did not 100% believe that said personal meta was a real tell? Because I didn't.
There was conviction there. The push was absolutely awful but the conviction was not, and DEO's push feels like it had a full belief in being right backing it. DEO was treating their tell as a cop guilty, almost, yes, but that's not scummy.
Why do you believe DEO should have felt the need to listen to anyone else's townread of a slot over their own tell they believed they had picked up through their experience playing games up to that point?

"DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS." <--- that is my fundamental issue. The conviction is not part of my case at all, because it is a subjective quality. I already touched on this earlier when I stated that being outside of the game on D1 placed me in a different perspective. That perspective is highly objective and literal because I wasn't *in* the game for its ebbs and flows.

Despite Postie, Deimos, and Vedith all asserting that SS's comment was a joke/derpy and should be "let go," DEO does not.

You mean like you're doing right now with everyone who actually knows both heads of The DEO?

The comparisons aren't analogous. Those people were commenting on something SS

did

do, everyone here is speculating on what MB

wouldn't

do.

DEO also repeatedly defends drealmerz from SS's accusations: drealmerz was the second most vocal person about lynching SS.

Point? When you're pushing on someone you think is scum and other people are also hard pushing with you and seem to have solid points from your point of view, do you not tend towards townreading them and defending them from your scumreads?

SS's push on drealmerz was independent of DEO's push on SS. The point is tied in with my "DEO was stifling SS' other nodes of discussion" point.

My contention here is that DEO ran with the PL thing too long and tried to force it home. I don't see a competent player like Titus doing that as Town.

This is burden of proficiency, and tunnelling isn't inherently scummy as well, it's how the tunnel is happening and how genuine the push is.

"How it's happening" -- I think I made it clear that I viewed it as lasting too long and too forcefully. If you disagree that's your point of view but I found it scummy.

Furthermore, talking over Postie and attempting to disrupt SS's legitimate scumhunting efforts is scummy.

Not really. I didn't get the feeling they were trying to disrupt SS's scumhunting efforts. Talking over people isn't scummy, it's just loud.

Just a couple examples that give me a different feeling:

GE ignoring my posts. Classic
Stop playing so many games so you can actually play well somewhere JC

Your posts are spammy garbage.

Go check Dreal's game and look at his scum game. I'm not tunneling him. I'm open to opinion. There is literally nobody scummier.

If you're "open to pinion" why are you not interested in engaging RM in thread or using their posts to sort them? They refuse to do the same with you.

[JaeReed]

@drealmerz What? It doesn't make my point invalid at all.

My points:

1. MathBlade would need to knowingly AtE after the Lycanfire flip in order to make us feel sympathy towards them as scum. I don't even think MathBlade REALIZED that their post there could come across that way. It seems as though they just posted with a real feeling of dejection and creeped out behind it. Which means that MathBlade being unable to reread after that is genuine. MathBlade genuinely felt as though Lycanfire had stalked them without him even knowing they were in the game prior.
2. MathBlade wouldn't need to reread the thread to even

get

creeped out over it all over again as scum, because there are things to push on that they wouldn't need to remind themselves about the creepy stalker. They could have an easier time moving on and as such would not have made that post in that manner.

MathBlade can't be groupscum thinking that Lycanfire is third party because their whole thought was that Lycanfire had a PT with scumbuddies that had information shared about them in order to make the pants comment. Math as 3rd party still doesn't need to go back through the thread after Lycanfire's town flip to re-evaluate.

[JaeReed]

"DEO uses

personal

meta to substantiate her case, which by definition has no bearing on reading SS." <--- that is my fundamental issue. The conviction is not part of my case at all, because it is a subjective quality. I already touched on this earlier when I stated that being outside of the game on D1 placed me in a different perspective. That perspective is highly objective and literal because I wasn't *in* the game for its ebbs and flows.

And the conviction behind it is why DEO using personal meta there wasn't scummy. I don't care about how much better you think your perspective is for not having been in the game D1. It still doesn't make you right in this instance. DEO isn't scum. You using your perspective as a tool to try to say your argument over DEO is better than any counterargument from people in the game is the same to me as others saying that this is the town game of both heads to you.

DEO also repeatedly defends drealmerz from SS's accusations: drealmerz was the second most vocal person about lynching SS.

Point? When you're pushing on someone you think is scum and other people are also hard pushing with you and seem to have solid points from your point of view, do you not tend towards townreading them and defending them from your scumreads?

SS's push on drealmerz was independent of DEO's push on SS. The point is tied in with my "DEO was stifling SS' other nodes of discussion" point.

My point stands. Titus believes drealmerz is town for finding SS as scummy as she does, and so defends her townread from a perceived scum push on him.

My contention here is that DEO ran with the PL thing too long and tried to force it home. I don't see a competent player like Titus doing that as Town.

This is burden of proficiency, and tunnelling isn't inherently scummy as well, it's how the tunnel is happening and how genuine the push is.

"How it's happening" -- I think I made it clear that I viewed it as lasting too long and too forcefully. If you disagree that's your point of view but I found it scummy.

Tunnels inherently last a long time and tend to be forceful. What's scummy is repeatedly saying someone is scum and NOT being forceful, imo, because that's one of the things that shows a lack of a genuine read.

Furthermore, talking over Postie and attempting to disrupt SS's legitimate scumhunting efforts is scummy.

Not really. I didn't get the feeling they were trying to disrupt SS's scumhunting efforts. Talking over people isn't scummy, it's just loud.

Just a couple examples that give me a different feeling:

GE ignoring my posts. Classic
Stop playing so many games so you can actually play well somewhere JC

Your posts are spammy garbage.

Go check Dreal's game and look at his scum game. I'm not tunneling him. I'm open to opinion. There is literally nobody scummier.

If you're "open to pinion" why are you not interested in engaging RM in thread or using their posts to sort them? They refuse to do the same with you.

First one there: GE is a townread of The DEO. This is back to the drealmerz defense. If you have a strong townread on lynchbait you tend to defend them when you think scum are pushing on them by shutting down that nonsense.
Second one is partner hunting on her scumread and I don't think she actually shut down conversation there rather than opened it up for S_S to look at RM and give opinions on her.

[The DEO]

Enough.

Titus is the one that things Zefiend is scum. I do not.
SS Titus wanted. I wanted RM and Lycanfire.

Titus and I have different personalities and sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't.

Titus thinks Drealmerz is town but I don't like the weirdness of the kill and I don't like FA's response.

This entire game is weird to me.

Titus and I are a package deal and I am not a "her".

Our slot is one slot. Not two that you can conveniently pick and choose arguments from.

We do agree we don't like mhsmith'a posts.

Please call the slot a They unless explicitly referring to Titus.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

omg I hate hydras "we can think whatever want and not be held accountable"

VOTE: the DEO

[The DEO]

omg I hate hydras "we can think whatever want and not be held accountable"

VOTE: the DEO

That is not my point AT ALL.

I am saying that if you think I am scum then either you think Titus is or something is wrong.

I do expect to be held accountable and I welcome it.

What I do not welcome is that you are blantantly scumreading anyone who attacks you. I did the same when starting out and occasionally still do it.

You also have to look at the ramifications of what you are saying.

~~Math

[The DEO]

So go through it. Assume I am scum. What does that mean about Titus? What partners would I have? Post it all here Drealmerz. Post your thoughts. Show everyone what you are thinking.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Stream of consciousness Drealmerz. Go. Just type.

~~Math

[JaeReed]

Please call the slot a They unless explicitly referring to Titus.

Sorry, I was referring to just Titus while refuting the push on S_S as scummy, but I'll keep it to they in general when talking about anything the slot has done to keep things from getting confused.

[drealmerz7]

I would guess it means titus is probably pretty upset with you and wants you to take over being the main voice of the hydra.

but I don't know

maybe I'm just being paranoid, but, when you make posts like 2954 it seems to me like you're trying to get everyone to wipe the slate clean on you and, ugh, NO ONE gets that, it puts me off really hard

I don't know what partners you'd have, maybe you're not actually in a hood with GE or whoever and it's just scumchat?

is it just paranoia??! the D1 SS/KTS mislynch and how after that happened I felt totally used to by you, even if it passed quickly? then the thoughts of you busing RM/boring, because you saw how horrible their play was from the beginning and knew you had no choice

what I do know is that if you're hyrda-ing like this you need to figure out reads that you CAN agree on and share those only until the rest works itself out, because you're doing nothing to help anything with your dual-head stances

[drealmerz7]

we can't even criticize your slot without parsing which head we're criticizing

IT'S FUCKED

[The DEO]

And that is where the issue resides Drealmerz.

A hydra's value isn't where it agrees. Its value is in its differences. Just because we agree on a point doesn't mean that we ignore the differences. We still hunt. Titus was proving a point to me earlier about FA and I need a chance to absorb it. A hydra teaches and learns. I am showing her how I hunt and she does the same with me.

For a post like 2954 I am not trying to wipe any slate clean I am showing you where I stand so you can hunt us. Everyone deserves pressure and pokes. If we only did what we agreed then the odds of us being deceived are higher not less.

We point out flaws in others plans and what they do and say. We grow from that.

~~Math

[drealmerz7]

it's a matter of what you make visible to the rest of us is my issue

do that in your PT, not out in the thread

save what you put in the thread for what you agree on

[JaeReed]

Titus was proving a point to me earlier about FA and I need a chance to absorb it.

Out of curiosity, what was the point?

[The DEO]

we can't even criticize your slot without parsing which head we're criticizing

IT'S FUCKED

That isn't it.

With a hydra if you think we are scum you think both myself and Titus are. Yet the only thing you scumread on is the fact we were wrong based on that post. It is why I asked you to think about partners the way you did.

It means either A) we aren't scum (this one) or B) You are so focused on us being a hydra and having hydra dissonance that you aren't actively investigating us or trying to find who we could be with.

The question becomes of whether this is townie anger or whether your unilateral focus is based on scum teaching you conviction is good without showing fake hunting.

~~Math

[The DEO]

Titus was proving a point to me earlier about FA and I need a chance to absorb it.

Out of curiosity, what was the point?

Titus thinks FA is town. I was trying to sort through my feelings on the matter.

~~Math

[The DEO]

What I am teaching hasn't come to fruition.

Drealmerz, your thoughts on FA?

~Titus

[JaeReed]

save what you put in the thread for what you agree on

This means that less people are going to be pressured and scumhunted. It's less than ideal.

[The DEO]

God, Drealmerz, you make me want to throw you off a cliff. My tell was wrong. I get it. Give it a rest. Math thinks you're scum for it. I however know you are capable of such ignorant play.

What do you think of my troll vote on FA?

[JaeReed]

Titus, are you ever going to answer my question? It's not a set up for dismissal. I want to understand your thoughts to see if the push is based off what I think it is or if there's something I'm missing.

[The DEO]

it's a matter of what you make visible to the rest of us is my issue

do that in your PT, not out in the thread

save what you put in the thread for what you agree on

Hydra dissonance will happen with every hydra.

Titus and I are already two tunnelers. By acknowledging our disagreements we become stronger better players. It seems like you have a problem more with hydra dissonance than our slot. Hydra dissonance is not alignment indicative. What is is the posts within it that are alignment indicative. With hydras it is about content not dissonance.

~~Math

The question becomes do you think Titus and I are trying to solve the game.

[The DEO]

it's a matter of what you make visible to the rest of us is my issue

do that in your PT, not out in the thread

save what you put in the thread for what you agree on

Absolutely not. I am reigning in Math when they go off the deep end but I have had IRL. I am letting them scumhunt while teaching them things.

[drealmerz7]

save what you put in the thread for what you agree on

This means that less people are going to be pressured and scumhunted. It's less than ideal.

BUT IF IT'S SCUM IT GETS TWICE THE FUCKERY, THAT'S LESS THAN IDEAL OMG

[drealmerz7]

I have a problem with hydras period. I don't think they're good for the game.