Mini 1860 - Game Over!

[havingfitz]

Too bad on Grey replacing out.
Starting my catch up..will try to post thoughts this afternoon.

[havingfitz]

^ hello

[havingfitz]

UNVOTE:

[havingfitz]

Haven't started my read through yet. It was my Saturday morning coffee induced leather couch cold as F out thing to do. Guess I have the weekend now.

[havingfitz]

D1 thoughts.

Town leans were:
Gerry, Kyouko, Tywin and Rask.

Slightly less town leans but more town than null were:
Gamma, LUV

Need to move off idk were:
Gear and JJD

People I'd be ok voting were:
Grey, TwoFace and probably PsychoDave moreso for PL type reasons (not a fan of worthless lurky players making it more than a day or two).

The spoiler below has any thoughts or questions I may have had as I read through the game.

My D2 vote was shaping up to be a toss-up between Grey and TwoFace...........maybe PsychoDave if neither of them gained traction. But with Dave gone and his flip in contradiction with Grey's claim....Grey will get my vote today. No rush though...it would be nice to see a little post D1/N1 chit chat before ending D2. Unless we want to save the mod from finding a stunt double for Grey's lynch today?

Spoiler: 1860 Catch up

Page 1-4: NSTR
Page 5:
JJD's comment about TwoFace's rvs vote being contrived seems a bit contrived.
Kind of agree with Rask's comment on PsychoDave 117...agreed.
@TwoFace... are you good with Gerry's play thru post 119? Did you find Tywin's thoughts on Gerry to be questionable? What about Gamma's Gerry vote?
Tywin...When you say Gerry "thought this through beforehand" wrt his meta defense do you mean in a suspect way? You address this later in post 241 but even if you were just pointing it out...it comes across as casting shade on Gerry. Especially in conjunction with your post below:
Tywin insinuating Gerry saves links. Why make that assumption? I can look up meta examples of various things but don't need a link library to find them. And it appears you aren't really seeing the keypen wagon...that you later put at L-1.

Page 9 vicinity....Gerry = town

The page 11 exchange between JJD and Gamma is pretty good. I was thinking Gamma had a town feel to him...and that JJD did not...but JJD is making good points on Gamma. Post 344 summarizes it all nicely as well.

@TwoFace... Vij quoted two comments you had made and then gave an opinion. The only facts in this post were your quotes. Did he get them wrong? And where does Vij say you were telling people how to read Tywin?

Like Tywin's Post 345. Are you suggesting a PsychoDave - Kyouko scum combo?

TwoFace... you deny suggesting that people look at TyWin if key flips scum but you clearly do in Post 180. It's not a mental note, ala Post 124, as you deflect to.

Not sure what Gamma's issue is with Tywin questioning TwoFace's play. In and around post 359.

Page 15...I'm town reading Kyouko.

Gear town.

Mental note.... JJD will eat rat testicles if they are in fried Oreos.

Comment....changing votes a lot is not scummy. When and where you vote might be scummy....but not the quantity.

Rask... what is your view of TwoFace?

TwoFace... why wouldn't PsychoDave confess to not having any reads if he was scum...especially as a newer player to MS? Seems like an easy way for him to not get OMGUS attention from players he suspects. And not having to fabricate reasons for any suspicions.

-------500-------

@Grey... not a big fan of your "not pushing Tywin" "Sheeping a townread" comment.

Rask town lean.
Gerry still reading town to me.

TwoFace... useless players have just as much chance of being scum as helpful ones. Imagine your town and it's LYLO. Do you want PsychoDave there with you

D2 has begun...D1 read through cont.

Like Kyouko's posts and 574 (aside from the lynch Vij portions). Still a town read.

@ TwoFace... why is Vij requesting replacement interesting?

TwoFace... how is Grey caught scum?

JJD... why does scum Grey = town Gamma?

TwoFace... wtf?

End of Day 1

Done. Kind of speed read after D2 opened. Consider me caught up.

[havingfitz]

L-2

[havingfitz]

Any major read changes after the night's flips other than Grey?

Not really. If there were I'd have mentioned them.

I wasn't convinced Dave wasn't scum so that's sorted!

[havingfitz]

vig gear or havingfitz

Uh...please don't suggest vig shots on me. Thanks.

[havingfitz]

Okay, I am personally ready to lynch Grey.

Why rush? D2 is less than 3 hours old.

Do the 3 flips change anyone else's reads outside of Grey?

[havingfitz]

I'm MS busy elsewhere atm. Will pick back up in here over the weekend????

Spoiler:

I killed Dave n1 and ssbm n2. I chose ones I felt could get decent associations.

Why did you claim?
What associations did you uncover?

[havingfitz]

Post weekend prodge...will content today.

[havingfitz]

I have been townreading gerry in this game but Post 861 is terrible.

886 @JarJar...what are you talking about? If you think there is an SK to go SK hunting for....why would you not be in favor of lynching Gamma. If there is an SK he is obv it.

That said...I do not think we should lynch Gamma today. Whether he is a vig or an SK...it will be in mafia's best interests to nk him tonight rather than hope he misses yet again. So if Gamma does make it to N3 I think he should leave his target unannounced. If he states his intention is to kill someone who is town or promises to not kill anyone....mafia would have less incentive to target him tonight.

Spoiler: VCA Stuff

Looking over the votes from D1 there were four wagons that made if to L-2 or beyond:

keyenpeydee

made it there on page 2:

keyenpeydee

: LUV, Gear, Vijarada/HF,

Kyouko

and TwoFace.

JarJarDrinks made it to L-2 in Post 313:

JarJarDrinks:

Tywin

, Gear,

-Grey-

,

Gamma

and

Kyouko

.

-Grey-

reached L-2 on Post 574 and claimed BG 9 posts later to dissolve his wagon.

-Grey-

: JarJarDrinks,

Tywin

,

Rask

, LUV and

Kyouko

.

And lastly our D1 lynch:

keyenpeydee

: TwoFace,

-Grey-

,

Rask

, JarJarDrinks,

PsychoticDave

,

Tywin

and

Gamma

.


I'm not taking away too much from the first L-2 wagon as it occurred so early in the game and a lot of it was probably primarily RVS or just early pressure to get a read on keyen.

The JarJar wagon is hard to assess not knowing his alignment. I would note that of the people on his L-2 wagon only two are still alive...Gear and

Gamma

.

The pre-claim L-2

-Grey-

wagon I think stands a good chance at having at least one partner on. The only two players still alive who were on the wagon are LUV and JarJar.

And then there is the D1 mislynch which still has three players alive or which I would wager at least one not named

Gamma

is scum...i.e. JarJar and/or TwoFace.

So nothing has changed much wrt to my D2 reads. I think the two remaining scum, assuming two remaining scum, are in the foursome of: TwoFace, JarJar, LUV and Gear.

I want to do some ISO's, to include gerry on the basis of his D3 start, before I lay down a vote and make what I hope is a compelling case.

[havingfitz]

????? How. I don't know if maf has dya chat or something. Say he was a Role Cop. And got his report, but was offline at the time of it. I hammered him so if he had day chat, he would not be able to talk to his partner if he wasn't there.

Grey requested replacement before D1 even ended. Don't think there was much to worry about. And your hammer doesn't actually bother me. It kept the mod from bringing someone in just to get lynched. It's just the excuse you are using to support your hammer. Seems overly defensive and a little concocted of a reason.

[havingfitz]

I would lynch in Gamma/Gear/Lil Uzi today

I think there has to be more than 1 scum on the key wagon. That wagon was way too easy.

That would point to JarJar or TwoFace. So why vote Gear over one of them? Why are neither of them in your scumpool? What are your cases on Gear and LUV?

[havingfitz]

Trying to wrap my head around whether it is in town's best interests to lynch Gamma today or not.

Here are our options


1. Lynch Gamma today ::

D4 = LYLO

2. If we don't lynch Gamma and we lynch town?

Lynch town

w/N3 Gamma shoots mafia/N3 Gamma nk'd ::

D4 = MYLO

Lynch town

w/N3 Gamma shoots town/N3 Gamma nk'd ::

D4 = Game Over Scum win

Lynch town

w/N3 Gamma doesn't shoot/N3 Gamma nk'd ::

D4 = LYLO

Lynch town

w/N3 Gamma doesn't shoot and a VT is nk'd ::

D4 = LYLO if Gamma is vig

....total cluster if Gamma is SK.


3. If we don't lynch Gamma and we lynch mafia?

Lynch scum

w/N3 Gamma shoots mafia ::

D4 = Game Over Town win

Lynch scum

w/N3 Gamma shoots town ::

D4 = MYLO

Lynch scum

w/N3 Gamma doesn't shoot and is NK'd ::

D4 = MYLO - 1

Lynch scum

w/N3 Gamma doesn't shoot and a VT is NK'd ::

D4 = MYLO - 1 if Gamma is vig....MYLO if Gamma is SK.

This should point to allowing Gamma to live. The only two bad outcomes are within Scenario 2:

1) if we lynch town today and then Gamma shoots town N3 while at the same time being shot by scum. Then the game would be over.

This option is eliminated if we lynch town and Gamma assures us he will not shoot at anything N3.

It's in his best interests not to whether he is a vig or an SK.

2) if we lynch town today and then Gamma doesn't carry out a shot N3 AND scum shoot a VT instead of Gamma. IF Gamma were an SK this option would create all kinds of bad outcomes for any alignment. So it would not be in scum's best interests to target a VT instead of Gamma.

Trouble is if we don't do Scenario 1...we aren't sure what scenario we will get until the flip. Scenario 2 has obvious benefits and no real downfalls. And Scenario 2 (i.e. shit...we mislynched again) pretty much guarantees we get to D4 if Gamma doesn't shoot.

tl:dr;

I still think Gamma is best left spared today and see how tonight goes. If we lynch town by mistake...Gamma just has to assure us he won't shoot tonight.

Thoughts?

P.edit...Compulsive or not would obv matter.

[havingfitz]

ISO time. Starting with the shorter ones:

LUV (35 posts ...1 repeat)

ISO 0-6 - RVS vote on keyen..a little banter and an unvote. meh
ISO 7 - Questions Gear wrt keyen.
ISO 8 - Game theory....
ISO 9-10 - Questions Rask on keyen. Something odd wrt Rask.
ISO 12 - Gives PsychoDave and Rask encouragement.
ISO 14 - Questions keyen read on Gamma and Vij...doesn't know what to make of Key.
ISO 15 - Town reading JarJar.
ISO 19 - Defends JarJar a bit from Gamma suspicions.
ISO 20 - Questions/disagrees with JarJar case on Gamma. Makes believable comments and an L-3 vote towards Grey. Getting town vibe.
ISO 24 - D2 obv vote on Grey.
ISO 28 - Post claim vote on Gamma. NAI.

@ LUV wrt post 896 (ISO 30)...what does Kyouko's suspicions have to do with the fact Gamma NK'd him? Whether Kyouko was "spot on" or not...why would the Vig or SK care? In the Kyouko posts you quote...there is no mention of Gamma that I can see.

ISO 31-34 - Doesn't think Gamma is town, notes Gear's activity level and states he's "down with" Gamma, Gear or me.

@ Luv...is your willingness to vote Gear or I based primarily on activity level or do you have actual suspicions you can elaborate on?

Summary...

I'm less suspect of LUV after having read his ISO. He's a decent town lean now.

Gear (21 posts)

ISO 0 - RVS on keyen
ISO 1 - v/LA announcement
ISO 2-5 - A little banter with keyen ending with an unvote.
ISO 6 - Naked (aka coinflip) vote on TwoFace.
ISO 7 - Meta defends keyen.
ISO 8 - Responds to vote by JarJar with a vote on JarJar.
ISO 9-12 - Decent posting...nothing suspect.
ISO 14-15 - Asks for why on JarJar's town read on Rask.
ISO 16-18 - Defends keyen...keyen only has 2 votes at this point. This feels a bit town as it could encourage voters to not bother starting up another keyen wagon...which Gear would have no forsight or onjection to. Seems genuine vice white-knighting.
ISO 19 - Unvotes JarJar. Seems a little suspect of Vij AND keyen for how they interacted/read each other.
ISO 20 - Last post. Permanent v/LA.

Summary...

Not much to work with but I think I'm leaning town on Gear as well. Not as much as LUV but more than pre-ISO.

Gerry next........

[havingfitz]

@Fitz: I stated recently that I don't see anyone town aligned shooting Kyouko based on those posts and to clarify I guess his overall play as well. I never played SK before so I don't know the general mindset of one.

I thought you were insinuating someone who Kyouko suspected had killed him. Which didn't make sense since we know who killed him.

I'm scum reading your slot for your unexplained TR on Gerry.

How is that any different than an unexplained scum read? ...which you had on me until this post.

My town read on gerry was essentially POE based on who I suspected after my catch up. After ISOing you and Gear though I am rethinking my reads. Halfway though a gerry ISO and then I'll get to TwoFace and JarJar tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

We know who killed him, we just don't know if who killed him is town. I don't believe the person who did is town.

Agreed...you elaborating on it in your posts didn't make sense wrt Gamma. Either way his position is going to be sorted out soon.

I've been scum reading your slot, I just haven't said anything because well I didn't get a chance to until now.

Weak given your lack of details on reading me until just now. So now that you have a chance...an you explain in any more detail than because I didn't explain my town read on gerry? Which I would argue was obvious after my catch up post.

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: gerry ISO

gerry (85 posts)

ISO 0-4 - Discussion on dislike of RVS.
ISO 5-6 - Doesn't like Gamma votring him because they have history.
Accepts Vij vote despite not liking it.
ISO 7 - Questions JarJar on voting Gear in post 72.
ISO 10-11 - Questions keyen on not knowing who suspects him and
explains reason for question to Grey.
ISO 12 - Defends his meta defense wrt avoiding RVS.
ISO 13 - Explains to JarJar why he understands Vij's vote on him.
ISO 14 - Likes Tywin's content.
ISO 15 - Explains to JarJar why he understands Vij's vote on him.
ISO 17 - Compares his angry town self to how he thinks keyen is
behaving. Hesitent to vote keyen.
ISO 18-20 - Says he understands the case on keyen and asks what the
case on JarJar is and sees nothing after JJD ISO.
ISO 21 - Seems to criticize JarJar for questions w/o answers/but his
reads make sense/but he disagrees wrt keyen.
ISO 23-26 - A few posts to indicate gerry would support a Dave (vice
keyen or Gamma) counterwagon to JarJar. Votes Dave.
ISO 27 - Calls back to back votes on Tywin by Gamma and Grey bad.
ISO 28 - Asks 2F for his read on Dave. 2F comes back with a null read on him.
ISO 29 - Ponders why Dave and Gamma are getting TRs.
ISO 30 - Questions 2F associating Dave with being "useless but not
scummy". I.e. gerry suspects Dave.
ISO 31 - Understands keyens reaction to "the lynches" (I assume he
means reaction to "votes on keyen"). Kinda of townreading keyen.
ISO 32-34 - A little PsychoDave bashing.
ISO 38 - Notes he is voting keyen but would be willing to vote Grey.
ISO 39 - Questions votes on keyen and lack of votes on Dave. Lectures
Grey on early claim.
ISO 41 - Agrees with Tywin's case on Dave.
ISO 43 - Questions Tywin on his L-1 keyen vote.
ISO 45 - Agrees w/ JarJar that TwoFace, Rask and Tywin are town. Asks
again for Tywin's reason for voting keyen.
ISO 46 - During twilight laments keyen's lynch as being on upset
town. "he's not mafia"
ISO 47 - Asks Gamma on why he is scumreading him.
ISO 48-49 - Continues defense of keyen post-lynch/pre-flip.
ISO 50 - Agrees with TwoFace about disliking LUV's comments on Grey claim.
ISO 51 - Asks Gamma again on why he is scumreading him.
ISO 52 - Can't believe Dave was town and that Dave should have pushed
Grey harder.
ISO 53 - Continuing to ask Gamma for specifics of scumread.
ISO 54 - NK spec.
ISO 55 - Defends himself against Gamma's scumread specifics.
ISO 56 - A little VC spec....says there was more than 1 scum on keyen wagon.
ISO 57 - Hammers Grey.
ISO 58 - More NK spec....has to be an SK due to bad NKs.
ISO 59 - Soft defense of Gear saying comments by cop!Tywin towards
gear would have been more adamant.
ISO 60 - Apologizes for quick hammer on Grey. I'm not bothered about
the hammer so much as I am about providing a poor excuse.
ISO 61 - Says he would lynch Gamma/Gear/LUV today. One of whom is
confirmed not scum (Gamma) and two of whom I recently anointed as town
reads.
ISO 62 - Questions Gamma on NK'ing his D1 townread (Dave).
ISO 63 - Pats himself on back for his keyen defense.
ISO 64 - Doesn't understand Gamma explanation for shooting Dave.
ISO 66 - Prefers lynching Gear or LUV today. What does everyone else think.
ISO 69 - Votes Gear and IMO acts coy about number of mafia in the game.
ISO 70 - Defends lack of Grey vote to JarJar. Not gonna vote for claimed PR.
ISO 71-72 - Give proof of keyen defense to jarJar.
ISO 73 - Defends quick hammer reasoning to me.
ISO 74 - Any oddly timed objection to TwoFace's vote on him. 30+
posts later despite several posts by Gerry since the 2F vote on him.
ISO 75 - Defends D1 Grey wagon avoidance to TwoFace accusations..one
of which TwoFace is guilty of as well (not voting Grey D1).
ISO 76 - Claims TwoFace's reads are shit. Fair point.
ISO 79 - Claims Gear can't be solo scum. Duh.
ISO 84 - Spot on assessment.
ISO 84 - Willing to vote Gear and LUV based on POE and TwoFace for bad
push on him (gerry).

Summary...

My town read on gerry took a little bit of a hit after going over his
ISO. I think he has been passed by Gear and LUV. I still want to
look over the loooooooong ISO's of JArJar and TwoFace before I lay
down a vote.

I am operating under the assumption there are 2 mafia left in the
game. So my current thinking is that there are 2 scum within Gerry,
TwoFace and JarJar.

More later.

[havingfitz]

You confirming yourselves or each other is worthless. I'll be surprised if one of you isn't scum.

P.edit @ JarJar and TwoFace.

[havingfitz]

Whatever TwoFace. Your being an ass technique isn't exactly spot on either.

[havingfitz]

There is no way you have read this game and think jar/grey are scum together

It's poe at the moment. Your ISOS are next.

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: JarJarDrinks ISO

JJD (147 posts)

ISO 0-1 - nada
ISO 2-3 - serious vote IMO on Gear for "fake-ass posting." Questions his vote on 2Face.
ISO 5-7 - Unvotes and agrees with Gear's point on voting 2Face. Also pro-Dave a bit.
ISO 8 - Discredits Gear's reason for townreading keyen.
ISO 9 - Shades 2Face a little. I agree with his thoughts.
ISO 10 - Agrees with Rask that keyen could be scum.
-ISO 11 - Answers on Grey's behalf to a question by Tywin.
ISO 12-13 - Questioning Grey's vote on him and Dave.
ISO 15 - Disagrees w/ 2Face on merit of a Vij vote on someone. Agrees with Vij while 2Face does not.
ISO 16 - Shades gerry for self meta'ing.
ISO 18 - Seems to be calling the Gear vote that he called "fake ass scumhunting" serious and legitimate.
ISO 19-20 - Shades keyen for not paying attention etc.
ISO 21 - Agrees w/ Tywin that early keyen wagon was for "no good reason". In contrast to recent keyen scumminess. However - during the early keyen wagon that had "no good reason" JJD agreed that keyen could be scum and discredited Gear's defense of keyen. Seems a little contradictive.
ISO 22 - Has Rask as a strong town read.
ISO 25 - Tywin is a townread.
ISO 28 - Naked keyen vote.
ISO 32 - A little back and forth w/ gerry due to reading to votes on him differently.
ISO 33 - Gives Dave crap (rightfully so).
ISO 34 - Rask is town because he suspects keyen (as does JJD) and he questioned Vij's tr on keyen. Also because Rask questioned Kyouko about Gear's 2Face vote.
ISO 36-37 - Some back and forth with keyen about comments towards Vij. Understandable.
ISO 38 - Tells keyen he (JJD) has given reasons for scumreading him (keyen). Note...I don't see the reasons unless they are "What Rask said." Not a direct quote btw.
ISO 41 - Asks Gamma for specifics on scumreading him (JJD).
ISO 42 - Votes Gamma reasons to follow.
ISO 43-46 - Gives reasoning for voting Gamma. Not terrible.
ISO 49 - Agrees with Rask that keyen, Dave and Gamma are all good votes.
ISO 53 - Back on his Gamma case. JJD looks to see why Gamma's read could have changed from Post 99 to Post 252 but does so by looking at all his (JJD) posts after 252....not the one between Gamma's 99 and 252. Not sure how that even makes sense.
ISO 55 - Calls keyen vote on 2Face bad.
ISO 62 - Agrees with 2Face that keyen wagon is stale because scum don't support it.
ISO 63 - Tells 2Face he isn't voting keyen because Gamma is probably scum too.
ISO 65-71 - A little tif with Grey regarding Gamma's alignment.
ISO 72-76 - Some growing suspicions towards Grey culminating in a vote.
ISO 80 - Says probably wrong on Gamma read since Gamma and Grey aren't buddies and JDD is SRing Grey now.
ISO 82 - says scum team is Grey/keyen/Dave. Doesn't win anything for 1/3.
ISO 86 - Says he (JJD) disagrees with Tywins 2Face read despite reading Tywin as town.
ISO 85-89 - Back and forth with Grey.
ISO 91-92 - UNvotes Grey due to claim despite not believing it. Votes keyen to L-3 and says he will put a case together (but what about ISO 38?)
ISO 93-94 - Provides opposing viewpoint to Tywin's keyen wagon concerns.
ISO 95-96 - Question for JJD...why did your top suspect (Grey) hopping on to keyen not give you 2nd thoughts about joining him (Grey) on the keyen wagon?
ISO 106 - Let's everyone know he would still be willing to vote Grey despite his claim. ~wifom
ISO 107 - Calls keyen sr list of 2Face/JJD/Rask so ugly.
ISO 112 - 2Face/Rask and Tywin are strong townreads. Grey or Gamma are scum but not both.
End of D1

ISO 117 - Immediate Grey vote.
ISO 118 - Shades 2Face a little and downgrades him to a slight town read.
End of D2

ISO 121 - Asks gerry who he would lynch.
ISO 122 - Asks LUV who he would lynch.
ISO 124 - Who do everyone not named 2Face or Gamma want to lynch? Question to JJD...why don't you care what 2Face and Gamma think?
ISO 125 - Calls 2Face ridiculous for voting Gamma.
ISO 128 - Would consider voting LUV for opportunistic hop on Gamma.
ISO 130-131 - Convinced by 2Face that Gamma is probbaly sk instead of vig. Would vote Gamma.
ISO 138 - says 2Face is making sense that gerry is scum and Gamma is SK.
ISO 143 - Not liking my comment that 2 scum are in gerry, 2Face and JJD.
ISO 144 - Says gerry makes sense but 2Face and JJD should not be considered scum by anyone.
ISO 145-146 - We should lynch GreyICE....-Grey- and Gear ignored each other the entire game.
ISO 147 - 2Face is safe today because he is active and even though he could be scum...less active people make better wagons.
ISO 148 - @JJD....so you are saying it is out of the realm of possibility that gerrry and 2Face are scum and you are town? Which is an option my POE points to.
ISO 149 - Not a fan of my ISOs lol...
ISO 150-151 - Votes me and is comfortable with the vote based on an ISO of Vij and I. No reasons given but he's ok with it.

Summary...

JarJar comes across as town for the most part. Aside fron the fact he's too defensive considering I only lumped him into a group off possibilities based on incomplete ISOs.

As for my ISO's..they are what they are. It's how I do them regardles of my alignment. Scum in most cases aren't going to hand you their alignment on a silver platter. And town aren't trying to do scummy shit on purpose. So when I read through an ISO I get a town or scum feel from certain posts and when my ISO is over...it's usually a consolidation of those feels that directs me. You came up with a shitload of reasons why keyen was scum. How'd that work out for you? Check out your ISO 82. Not everyone gets it right and not everyone who votes or says you are possibly scum are scum. You need thicker skin.

Right now I would say from town to scum my reads are JJD-LUV................GreyICE and gerry. With 2Face tbd.

Speaking of 2Face....JJD, can you elaborate on why he is a townread outside of the fact he posts a lot?

[havingfitz]

Thought I had posted this earlier this morning but apparently not.

@2face...wrt 1109...what does whether you think defensiveness is good or bad matter? It's not affecting my read on JJD. I only mention it
because his reaction towards me for just lumping him in a pool of scum candidates seemed excessive given he had barely mentioned Vij/me in
this game, certainly not as a suspect. This was on top of his reaction to Gamma voting him. An immediate vote in return on Gamma
with reasoning that had some merit but was a fail to elimate/discredit. (See my comments on his ISO 53).

@JJD...wrt 1110...I disagree...see comments above. That someone who is unsure of your alignment would not rule you out as scum without a
closer look and get the incredulous reaction you are giving is totally defensive on your part. I mean...if you are so incredibly obviously
town...why are you still here?

@JJD...wrt 1111...That's how I interpreted your town read on 2Face. It's not a misrep. When I see "appear to be trying" in reference to
the most active player in the game in contrast to "just sitting around" in reference to the players you have been up for voting
today: the Gear slot, LUV and now me who are all the least active posters. In fact, you've basically expressed a willingness today to
lynch anyone not named 2Face. If you are town how is that the only person you aren't willing to vote after 44+ pages is your "slight town
lean?"

[havingfitz]

Havingfitz, I don't see anything from your ISO that would lead you to believe to make me your top scumread. Especially when I was your TR

It's more of a poe thing than anything in particular that you did wrong. Though one thing that does come to mind without looking back over my ISO of you that I know I did/do not care for was the way you handled the Grey lynch and subsequent explanation. After reading LUV, Gear and JJD I found them more town than you.

I will be posting my TwoFace ISO thoughts tomorrow morning ...I'm done but I still need to summarize. I will say he is still a suspect for me which is problematic for my other reads because I don't see the two of you being scum together. Which might bump someone else ahead of one of you. I also want to look over Grey's ISO.

Is anyone else doing anything btw? LUV? Gamma...I know you are not mafia at least...any thoughts on who is? Where did GreyICE go?

[havingfitz]

Spoiler: TwoFace ISO

2f (212 posts)

ISO 0-4 - 2 RVS votes.
ISO 5 - Naked "wheeee" vote on keyen.
ISO 9 - Disputes Gear's comparison to town!keyen "OMGUSing everyone who suspected him."
ISO 10 - confronts keyen about RVS question
ISO 11 - more disputing Gear's keyen tr.
ISO 12 - disagrees with JJD assessment towards Gear+ and him- (2F).
ISO 13-14 - an exchange with Tywin on RVS and a little self meta....followed by approval of Tywin comments disparaging self-meta.
ISO 15 - Questions Gamma town reads on JJD and Gear.
ISO 16 - disputes JJD assessment of his (2f) vote on keyen as not being casual.
ISO 17 - Questions Grey on his vote for JJD.
ISO 18 - An exchange that I think is on the benefits of RVS wagons.
ISO 19 - Agrees with Grey's reason for voting JJD.
ISO 20-21 - Says to keep an eye on Vij for his terrible vote on gerry.
ISO 22 - JJD thinks Vij vote on gerry is fine and 2F responds with "ok"

ISO 24 - Says keyen is a good lynch and that "sometimes rushing isn't so bad."

ISO 25 - If keyen flips scum keep an eye on Tywin.

ISO 26 - Questions how JJD could have a strong townread on Rask this early (at post 181) in the game. How can you have enough of a scum read on keyen to push your opportunistic vote on him towards a rushed lynch this early?

ISO 27 - Repeats Tywin scum if keyen scum comment.
ISO 35 - Defends his earlier Tywin comments to concerns raised by Tywin. Finishes with calling Tywin's post odd.
ISO 36 - Calls keyens reads half-assed. Though he got all of his town reads right (assuming Gamma is a vig as I think is probably the case).
ISO 37 - Disputes gerry town read on keyen and mentioned running to mod regarding to ongoing game comments.
ISO 38 - Defends his play against Tywin concerns.
ISO 39 - Disagrees with Vij comment towards him.
ISO 40 - Agrees with Rask and states JJD seems very town (at post 329)
ISO 41 - Has tiff with Tywin due to suspicions.

Uses inaccurate quote (post 124) to misrep Tywin who was clearly referring to post 180.

ISO 42 - Tywin has dropped down due to lies (Tywin never said).

ISO 43 - Agree with Gamma response to Grey that Tywin's focus is off.
ISO 44 - Pushes keyen (L-5) wagon first.
ISO 46 - Says Dave is null.
ISO 47 - Disputes Kyouko's defense of Tywin and keyen. Refers to proof he gave (with the wrong quotes mentioned above).

ISO 48 - Tells keyen his early vote may have been opportunistic.....2Face only has the one vote on keyen. He kept his keyen vote there all of D1.

ISO 49 - Tells keyen his reaction to being put at L-2 on page 2 of the game is why 2f subsequently has maintained his vote which he has said could be considered opportunistic.

ISO 50 - Admits his case on keyen is weak and that's why he isn't pushing it but there are no better options. I would add here that while 2f says he isn't pushing keyens case....that seems to be all he has focused on up to this point other than very minor shading towards Tywin.

ISO 53-55 - A little tiff with Tywin who thinks 2f attacked him.
ISO 57 - Shows he is not paying attention to the dispute between Gamma and JDD on changing reads. Completely missed it despite it flaring up at least twice.
ISO 59 - States he is not worse than JJD to keyen and dismisses keyen suspicions towards him as ~omgus.
ISO 60 - Defends Dave to Rask.
ISO 61 - Dave is a "useless townie" and 2f would not support a PL. Also makes continued weak push on keyen's "stale wagon."
ISO 62 - Calls JDD to task for voting Gamma despite agreeing with the keyen "stale wagon" assessment. Doesn't know why JDD suspects Gamma despite it being a fairly well laid out subject.
ISO 66 - Agrees with Grey that Gamma is town.
ISO 67 - Agrees with JDD that Grey was defending Tywin prior to voting him.
ISO 68 - Tiff with Tywin...mentions lie he never proved Tywin committed.
ISO 69 - Tells JJD that Grey, Dave and keyen aren't the scum team.
ISO 70-71 - Asks JJD how Tywin can be a townread. Questions any pro-town content by Tywin and says he lied again.
ISO 72 - Tells Vij his scum reads (JJD/TwoFace/Dave) are the worst reads ever. Hindsight: Only 1 has been shown to be wrong.

ISO 73 - Gets in heated tiff with Tywin about lie Tywin never told and end result is Tywin is a liar and keyen is a mafia PR. WTF? I would note that the Grey wagon is gaining traction at this point and 2f has not mentioned it. In fact he has defended Grey as of ISO 69 and made little mention of him otherwise.

ISO 76 - Asks Rask if we

can just lynch keyen because no one else interests him (@537).

Keyen only has 1 vote at this point whereas Grey is up to 3 and JJD and Dave are at 2?
ISO 77 - States Dave is useless but not scummy because of perception. Every game as 1 or 2 useless players according to 2f. Not sure how that excludes them from being suspects.
ISO 81 - Asks keyen why he left Grey off his post 222 reads list. This when Grey has reached 4 votes. No mention of that by 2f.
ISO 83 - If keyen isn't going to happen

2f would be good with a Grey lynch.

Grey is at L-2 at this point @577 and makes his claim in Post 583.

No previous suspicions towards Grey.

ISO 84 - Immediately after Grey's claim (2 posts later) it's back to pushing the keyen wagon. And the very next post is Grey voting keyen to L-5.

ISO 85-86 - Doesn't believe Grey claim but won't lynch PR claims on D1.
ISO 87 - Expresses interest (shade?) on Vij requesting replacement.
ISO 88 - Asks Gamma who he would prefer to lynch (instead of keyen) while Gamma has his vote on JJD.

Not paying attention again.

ISO 89 - Tells Gamma that JJD reads scum to him given that Grey is probably scum. ?????? At this point in the game Grey is voting 2f's top suspect keyen and at not time earlier in the game has 2f given any hint or reasoning for thinking Grey is scum.
ISO 91-93 - Calls keyen scum and Dave lynchbait/PL
96 - continues to suspect keyen for his immediate discrediting efforts following 2Fs opportunistic vote on keyen on page 2. Smh
ISO 97 - crap points against keyen.
ISO 99 - Tells keyen only 3 people are voting him, when it's actually 4, and that he shouldn't worry and just scumhunt.
ISO 102 - Agrees with JJD's assessment of the Grey claim and keyen wagon.
ISO 103 - Working hard to get the keyen lynch through.
ISO 104 - Puts a Grey/keyen/LUV scum team possibility out there.

ISO 107 - Calls Grey caught scum (how so?)

ISO 108 - Claims that keyen just claimed scum. Hyperbole that never occurred of course.
ISO 109 - Tells keyen to stfu.
ISO 111 - Calls Gamma stupid for saying 2f is confirmed scum for not unvoting keyen.
ISO 113 - Discrediting my participation in the game after only 3 posts (I'm here, Hi, Unvote). Nice.
ISO 114 - Applauds potentially catching 2 scum D1.

End of D1

ISO 117 - Immediate vote on Grey
ISO 118 - Defends on JJD comments regarding 2f not wanting to lynch Grey D1. 2f acknowledges his focus was on keyen.
ISO 120 - Discredits LUV a bit for saying he (LUV) didn't see why anyone believed the Grey claim. Accuses him of not reading which is funny given his (2F) lack of awareness on the JJD/Gamma activities D1.
ISO 121 - Calls the vig a dumb ass. Not sure how getting rid of useless null town is a bad move.

ISO 122 - Responds to Kyouko asking the vig to shoot "gear or havingfitz, pref gear" by

encouraging the vig/sk to preferably shoot me instead of gear.

ISO 125 - Says Dave was obviously not scum. 2f's reads are much better with hindsight.
ISO 126 - How does Grey going after Tywin lessen the fact he was very early on Grey's case? Shades Tywin a bit saying neither he nor Grey were on the other very hard.

ISO 127 - Calls Tywin's 180 on keyen suspicious. Not sure how with all the extensive lobbying for the keyen lynch that 2f did.

ISO 128 - Disagrees with Kyouko on level of Dave scumminess.
ISO 129 - States scum try to appear town and he's never seen scum win by being useless.
ISO 130 - Some nice wifom by 2f on why 2f isn't scum.

ISO 131 - Probably 1 more scum on keyen wagon. Great....who is it? You or JJD?

End of D2

ISO 133 - Points out possible crumb by Tywin on Gear.
ISO 135 - Gives gerry crap about his hammer reasoning.
ISO 136 - Votes Gear and asks him to please post content and stop flying under the radar.
ISO 140 - Says he would vote gerry or gear today...

and maybe JarJar?

ISO 142 - Votes Gamma after the vig claim. Doesn't believe the claim.
ISO 144 - Makes decent post wrt Gamma. nai fmpov
ISO 147 - changes read on JJD based on D1 w/ Grey. Gear/gerry and Vijmoi.
ISO 151 - Asks Gamma why not shoot gear or Fitz instead of Kyouko.
ISO 153 - We should lynch gerry....for posts that look very similar to 2f comments on D1 wrt Grey.
ISO 156 - Votes gerry.
ISO 158 - Attacks me and my play style as useless after I include him in a group of a 4 player scumpool.
ISO 161 - Attacks gerry for quick hammer reasoning...says gerry is a liability as town. Nice.
ISO 162 - Scum are in Gear/gerry and fitz.
ISO 163 - gerry didn't refuse to vote Grey D1 any more than you did 2f. Calls gerry scum
ISO 165 - You did the exact thing you are accusing gerry of in this post. See ISO 83.
ISO 166 - How is gerry stalling? Wtf?
ISO 168 - Really thinks Vij replaced out because Grey was getting run up. What a nice imagination.
ISO 177 - gerry is still 2f's desired lynch. Would vote fitz.

Gear/GreyICE has fallen off the list.

ISO 178 - Gives me crap for not ruling out JJD (which I subsequently have) and for not considering Gear who has done nothing. So doing nothing = scum?
ISO 179 - Little discrediting of my opinion and repeat of JJD outrage.
ISO 180 - Why are you pm'ing the mod? WTH is that all about? And if I haven't ruled you out as a suspect up to this point you are most certainly a consideration.
ISO 181 - fu 2f
ISO 182 - Admits he almost always reads me as scum. As I am not always scum your scum reads on me are useless. Why is getting anyone to L-2 a concern wrt having a vig/sk in the game? Unless you plan on pushing a Gamma wagon today...it makes no difference whether we're at L-2 or 1 or lynch.
ISO 185 - @2f...what do you mean your "outed SR on gerry came before you did the ISO and voted him?"
ISO 186 - thin skinned 2f rantings....carry on....
ISO 188 - lol at 2f telling anyone to work on their attitude. Omg that's good :D1
ISO 189-201 - Lots of gerry bashing up to gerry is the right lynch today and more.
ISO 205 - the same could be said for you and keyen D1.

Summary...

TwoFace was right! I suspect him the most. All of the lines in his ISO that I find suspect are highlighted in red or just black.

In short...I suspect TwoFace for tunneling keyen all D1 despite acknowledging that his vote on keyen was opportunistic and that his case on him was weak. That there were no better alternatives to keyen despite a solid effort by JJD towards Gamma; and Tywin, who he had prior to this claimed to have caught in a lie. Wouldn't catching someone in a lie warrant a vote to L-4 more than someone whose case you said was weak and only at L-5?

Additionally I just find him almost completely ignorant of Grey's existence until Grey is at L-2. Then all of a sudden he is ok with lynching Grey. But wait! A claim! Let's just stick with the weak opportunistic keyen wagon. Followed immediately by a vote on the weak opportunistic keyen wagon by Grey... who you are also ok lynching... whose claim you do not believe and you claim is caught scum? So why not pass on keyen and go for the sure thing...the caught scum whose claim you do not believe (i.e. Grey)? Or the liar (Tywin)?

I also do not think TwoFace and gerry would be a likely scum pairing. So gerry moves up a little on my town list. Gear/GreyICE take his place.

TwoFace or GreyICE are the only two I will vote today.

VOTE: TwoFace

[havingfitz]

VC 3.03

havingfitz (1) [L-3]: TwoFace

[/area]

ATM JarJar is the one voting me.

Okay. - eS

[havingfitz]

I think we've gotten everything we can out of this day to be honest. Gear's replacement is going to be replaced and I think most of us are in agreement that there is very little that slot can say in order to sway our opinions of it.

What are you talking about? ffs

[havingfitz]

Oh and Tywin did lie. To say he didn't when I proved he did just goes to show how bad of a player he is.

Why would Tywin lie? The point you accuse him of lying about, that I refer to and explain in my ISO on you, are false. You are either lying or just not comprehending.

[havingfitz]

I never said my vote was oppportunistic.

Like MAYBE you could call my early vote on you opportunistic

Note...you only ever made one vote on keyen. The one you say could be called opportunistic.

My reasons for keyen/ty to be scum together was weak. Not my reason for keyen.

I'll accept this excuse.

Grey and I interacted a couple of times so not sure how you could say I was ignorant of his exsistance.

You cast no suspicion his way until he was getting run up That is a fact.

I know you are not mafia at least..

How does fitz know Gerry is not mafia? He was just suspecting him earlier but now somehow knows he isn't mafia?

Can you explain this fitz?

Gamma...I know you are not mafia at least...any thoughts on who is?

[havingfitz]

fitz, this is what tywin said.

He claims he isn't telling anyone else what to do after the fact, but told 'town' to watch me in his original post.

and this is what I actually said

^ smh

Mental note. Keep an eye on that guy

You can say it isn't a lie all you want, but it actually isnt. I'm not telling anyone else what to do. I'm leaving myself a reminder.

Post 124 which you keep using to say Tywin lied is not the post where you told people to watch Tywin.

It was post 180.

You should not be making this mistake/accusation repeatedly.

[havingfitz]

first of all, look at tywin's post. he said my ORIGINAL post.

can you fucking read?

my ORIGINAL post is post 124.

but ok fine. show me in post 180 where I tell the entire town to watch him.

i'll be waiting until the apocalypse because IT DIDN'T FUCKING HAPPEN.

but fine, here are the 2 quotes side by side.

^ smh

Mental note. Keep an eye on that guy

if key flips scum, keep an eye on tywin.

See, I am not talking to anyone but myself in both of those posts. I am not telling anyone what to do, what to think, or anything even remotely close to it.

he lied
you suck and are probably scum at this point.

idk what the fuck is wrong with people on this site, but regardless of your alignment when you make a mistake, be a man/woman and admit it instead of arguing that you didn't make it to begin with.

tywin did it, you're doing it, and lots of other people do it also. fucking eager did it in the last game we played. bunch of damn [redacted] people on this site. how hard is it to just say oops my mistake, sorry.

TwoFace...you are fucking stupid. Are you in too many games? Do you have serious reading comprehension problems? You keep bringing up Post 124 as you proff that Tywin lied but Tywin never brought 124 up as an issue iirc. Post 124 was obviously a mental note to yourself that was in regards to something Vij had said. Tywin even quotes the posts he is talking about:

if key flips scum, keep an eye on tywin.

Not a fan of two-face saying that Tywin should be looked at if keyen is scum, then saying "There's no one way that buddies interact, we should just read Tywin after a scumflip to see if they make sense as buddies". That seems like a different position taken after questioning.

I'm not telling anyone how they should read Tywin actually. I just said how I'm going to. At least get your facts straight

Posting this for future TwoFace attack on me, since his personality makes me assume it's a guaranteed reaction.

Which you still fail to comprehend! Can you just acknowledge you have been wrong on this point and were accusing Tywin of lying when there was no basis. Why would the town cop have lied in his exchange with you? Stop bringing up post 124. No one fucking gives a crap about post 124. Tywin was referring to post 180.

POST 180!

POST 180!!!

ffs stoopid. And quit being such a massive tool. You actually take the fun out of this game for others. Have you ever gotten anything wrong in the game of mafia? Your thin skinned "I never do anything wrong it's always everyone else who sucks" personality is one of the most annoying things I have ever come across on this site. You tunneled town all D1 and you probably blame keyen for you getting it wrong.

And people can accept that they got something correct FYI:

My reasons for keyen/ty to be scum together was weak. Not my reason for keyen.

I'll accept this excuse.

I really wish you had a scum game under this super secret alt you have so that I could see if you were such a total ass as scum too. But since you apparently have skeletons in your closet you must hide behind as your new alt...we have to deal with what we have. I'm having 2nd thoughts that someone as misguided and offensive as you is scum. The fact that your wagon, regardless of your alignment, is not getting more traction is amazing and disconcerting to me as well. I did not like LUVs quick vote on me to L-1, it felt very convenient and lazy, along with the fact he has never expressed any sort of case on me that I can see. As for my ISO reads...screw them...when I have 2nd thoughts on my main scum read and now have suspicions towards one of my 2 top TRs (post-ISOs) they obviously aren't worth the pixels they're written in. Gamma is the only sure thing in this game fmpov and that is that he is not mafia. Not really too bothered atm whether he is sk or vig.

VOTE: LUV

JarJar...why are you voting me? Because I had the nerve to leave you as a potential suspect prior to ISO'ing you? Wouldn't it make more sense to see what an ISO on you actually determined before pre-emtively OMGUSing me?

[havingfitz]

Tywin also said my original post which is 124.

Fitz has had his chance to show he's town. He blew it.

I did not blow anything. I am town. You are a crap player and you are the liar. Tywin was clearly referring to post 180. Your continued obliviousness to this fact is mind boggling. Whether you are scum or not I actually believe you can be this stupid. And switching to me after acknowledging I might be wrong about you has no town incentive.

VOTE: TwoFace

Whether you are scum or town your lynch benefits town.

[havingfitz]

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

Three posts

"Hi"
"I dislike RVS"
"We're out of RVS yay!"

This is a very intentional effort to avoid moving the game foward. VOTE: Gerryoat

^ smh

Mental note. Keep an eye on that guy

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

if key flips scum, keep an eye on tywin.

All the mentions of TwoFace above lead me to mention a possible OMGUS read (on my part) on TwoFace. Mainly it's due to him trying to pair me with Keyan for questioning the early vote reasons on him. He then says if Keyan flips town, he's not going to watch me anymore. That doesn't seem like a townie statement. Townie TwoFace should watch everyone regardless. Whatever Keyan flips wouldn't make me more/less town. What's the goal with the pairing statement? He claims he isn't telling anyone else what to do after the fact, but

told 'town' to watch

me

in his

original

post.

Shows how wrong you are with the comment below. As mentioned ad nauseum in this exchange...you are wrong. Obviously not mentally capable of many things such as recalling what you yourself are doing. 124 was in reference to Vij. 180 is the post regarding Tywin which Tywin refers to as your "original" post. You are wrong and you are lying. Tywin never lied. You pushed crap suspicions on him erroneously (or intentionally) just like you are still trying to lie your way out of.

You're the one who is stupid cause neither 124 or 180 show me telling people people what to do or thing.

Tywin also said my original post which is 124.

And in 180 there is nothing to indicate that you aren't suggesting town keep an eye on Tywin. No mention of a "Mental note."

You are wrong on accident or lying scum. Which is it?

[havingfitz]

@fitz

time to claim methinks

JarJar...why are you voting me? Because I had the nerve to leave you as a potential suspect prior to ISO'ing you? Wouldn't it make more sense to see what an ISO on you actually determined before pre-emtively OMGUSing me?

[havingfitz]

Ur misrepping.

It's not cause you had me as potential scum. It's cause you eliminated several people from being scum for absolutely no reason.

"absolutely no reason?"

Ur misrepping.

Gamma is not mafia. Agreed?

That leaves 5 players fmpov to find scum in. I had ISO's LUV and Gear and they did not scream out to me as scum. That left you, gerry an TwoFace.

So there was absolutely reasoning behind me ruling out two, not several, players at that time.

[havingfitz]

How you can exclude gear based on his limited iso? There is no way you as town can eliminate an inactive slot. That right there you lose credibility. Town would put that person in the possible scum slot.

- your opinion in this game has proven to be crap.

Idk how luv can be in the town pile and jar not when jar hands down looks townier given greys flip.

- well Einstein...I hadn't ISO'd JJD yet. Once I did I put him at the top of "the town pile."

I pointed out where Gerry avoided voting scum and when asked why lied about it, yet he's a townier than me?

- yeah...he lied just like Tywin the cop did. In other words...he didn't. And the thing you are trying to accuse him of you did almost exactly the same.

See that's 3 strikes. You're out

- your opinion in this game has proven to be crap.

[havingfitz]

k now fitz can claim

I did already.

[havingfitz]

u sure?

Alignment...no pr.

[havingfitz]

Never saw a claim but doesn't matter. There's most likely no more PRs left. Hammer this scum.

And if and when I'm hammered and flip town...Gamma doesn't shoot and most likely dies tonight. Too bad he's checked out beforehand. And TwoFace ~plays stupid and blames me for his second mislynch. At least Grey was a freebie on D2. Hopefully TF is scum as I hate to think he's playing this poorly as town.

[havingfitz]

Did fitz vote Grey d1 or d2?

No...I replaced in and D1 ended before I could catch up. D2 Grey was a given and I was in no hurry to vote him. I think D2 only last a few hours despite me not voting him.

Gamma...as the only person who I know for certain is not mafia, I'm assuring you I am town. If there are questions you have let me know. I would look at the pushes on me today. This is probably your last day in the game and it would be nice to avoid a mislynch so you can get one more shot off.

zzzzzzzzzz

[havingfitz]

but I liked his posts today.

What did you like about JJD's posts today? Considering they were focused on lynching me, for crap reasons imo, I'd have to say this wasn't one of his better days.

[havingfitz]

i might just vote and read at night btw

What would you base your vote on if you plan to "read at night" afterwards?

How do you know you would survive through the night?

[havingfitz]

fitz can you help me digest your reads since they are a bit hard to analyze

Hard in what way? I'll post my reads on each player shortly.

[havingfitz]

it was a reference for fitz about our last game

How would I know your "townplay?"

And what exactly are you saying is your townplay....voting in MYLO without a firm grasp of the game? Something else?

[havingfitz]

Hi Cloud. I'm just trying to get a better feel for your slot in this game. Could you talk to my two questions above.

P.edit...you've only made a few posts in here. Which ones speak to your townplay? How is mine different?

[havingfitz]

Updated reads list (clarification) for Gamma and town players.

My reads have been stated at various stages of the game.

Based on my D1 read through/catch up (see Post 797) I had gerry, Kyouko, Tywin and (posthumously right) Rask as town leans.
I wasn't sure about Gamma and LUV but they were very slight town leans.
I was TBD on Gear and JJD.
And suspects were Grey (who at this point was on "autolynch"), TwoFace and (posthumously wrong) PsychoDave.
The reasons I felt this way is the accumulation of my catch up thoughts (also in Post 797). Basically if I was making a bunch of negative comments or had a lot of questions asking for clarification I was probably suspecting a player. Good comments or outright saying I felt someone was town came from good posts I saw and a lack of either left people in the middle.

**************************
Early D3 Post 945 I give an update to my reads. At this point Gamma has been outted as either a vig or an SK. I lean towards him being a vig but either way he is probably not making it through N3. He is most definitely not mafia though. That leaves me gerry, Gear, TwoFace, JarJad and LUV as my scum pool. As I'd been reading gerry as town throughout the game my focus was on the remaining four so I did ISO's to try to narrow it down. I started with LUV and Gear because they had low post totals and left the more active posters for last.

LUV and Gear ISOs: LUV's ISO 20 (vote on Grey) was the main reason I bumped up my town read on him. I thought he made a good post/case on Grey and I did not see it coming from town. More on this later.

WRT Gear...as I noted...there wasn't a lot to work with. The main reason I was giving him a town bump was due to his defense of keyen. On second look...what I failed to acknowledge was that in Gear's last content post of the game he basically backed off his defense of keyen for what I would call questionable reasons. So my reason for town bumping him takes a hit.

The only thing in gerry's ISO that I really had a issue with was the way he ended D2 with the quick vote on Grey. There were a few other things that piqued my attention a bit (ex. his ISO 59, 69 and 74). But for the most part I think the good outweighs the bad and we have been of a similar mindset. Still a town read for me.

JarJar's ISO looked town for the most part. I'm a sucker for un-necessary and early committed bussing on a scum partner so I'm leaning towards JJD not doing this on Grey. If he did....bravo. I will say that post ISO on him I have not liked his play towards me. Call it omgus or whatever but I do not think his reasoning for voting me has been warranted and fmpov he is pushing a mislynch.


TwoFace's ISO is pretty self-explanatory and I give my reasons for suspecting him. Minus the comments about his case on keyen being weak. I also state that I felt it unlikely gerry and 2F would be scum partners so that moved gerry out of and Gear into my bottom two with 2F.

*************************

My opinions since all of the reads before are pretty much the same with the exception of LUV. It's not a big move but I would drop LUV from my top 2 based on his play today...which IMO has been terrible...and have this

scum pool: 2F, Gear/Cloud and LUV.

In regards to LUV...on further review of his Grey case/vote that I gave him a strong town lean for...if LUV is scum, he really did not go out that much on a limb (like JJD) in making a case and placing a vote on Grey. LUV has shown a willingness to bus and his L-3 vote on Grey came when Grey was the leading wagon and the only other two contenders att were JJD and Dave. JJD was a LUV town read and Dave hadn't gotten his attention so bussing a partner was his only option. Actually though...that's not true...he had expressed suspicions earlier towards keyen but rather than get off the Grey wagon after Grey had claimed...and move to the keyen wagon...he stayed camped on Grey and avoided the mislynch.


So there Gamma...those are my reads. I hope they are clear.

I'd really be up for a LUV lynch based on that once over of his play. The only thing I seriously gave LUV town cred for is now IMO compromised. And his play today has been terrible.

[havingfitz]

Pp.p.p.edit...to TwoFace

It's self-explanatory in that I highlight the things I find suspect about you and then I go on in that ISO post to explain my reasons. The only one I already have retracted is the "weak case" issue I had because you actually clarified that sufficiently. Everything else still stands.

Who is scummier in your estimation...me or gerry? And do you actually think if we were both scum we would buddy up that much? Other than the quick vote on Grey which I have stated I do not like...I do not see enough incriminating stuff with gerry to suspect him more than others in the game. And for the most part we've been like minded in this game iirc.

As for my refusal to consider gerry scum a sign I am scum....I do not know if he is scum or not. All I do know is that I suspect most of the other players still alive more than I do him. And until you know his alignment for sure you basing a scum read on my different opinion towards him is asinine. Unless you just think I am buddying the hell out of him. You might be stupid enough to do that as scum but I am not. And the big lie accusation you keep drumming up on gerry about voting or not voting grey I do not interpret the same as you. In fact...as I've said...I see your position on Grey D1 as almost a carbon copy of how gerry felt about Grey.

Well to quote you...."If you're town you're playing anti town right now cause I'm town."

And I'm not wrong about the Tywin thing. The fact you continue to not get it illustrates is real life evidence that you are an idiot. Not AI mind you but an idiot all the same. I could actually see you as just crap town having a lot of mental fails in this game but as either alignment your departure would be healthy for the game.

The one mistake I acknowledge I have already acknowledged. You should practice what you preach boy.

What are your current reads on LUV and Cloud?

P.edit...
VOTE: LUV

[havingfitz]

and now my vote is on Gerry

Not accurate.

[havingfitz]

WTF Gamma. Any thought behind that vote or are you just idiot sheeping?

I thought I brought up good points on LUV....but almost as good is the void that is the Gear slot.

VOTE: Cloud

[havingfitz]

Wait what. Fitz I thought you tr gear?

TwoFace or GreyICE are the only two I will vote today.

have this scum pool: 2F, Gear/Cloud and LUV.

You think poe is a good reason?

When there are only 5 players potentially scum and you are town reading two of them....then POE pointing to the remaining players is absolutely a good reason.

i prob wont connect until the deadline is done so VOTE: fitz

Strong case you present there

So I'm at L-1 and TwoFace isn't voting me. Lovely position for me to be in. TwoFace...if you are town...at least look at the points I made on LUV and look over the stellar Gear/GreyICE/Cloud slot. If they win as scum it is going to be especially exasperating. I am town.

And Gamma...please get in here and unvote me. What about my clarifications did not sit well with you? Don't let your last action in this game be pushing a mislynch.

[havingfitz]

Is this your case on me Fitz? I had thought you made another one.

It's not all I suspect you for as a D3 ISO on me would show.

[havingfitz]

I want full reads, with simple reasoning.

I gave you this at your request and got voted by you afterwards with no reasoning. What are your reads?

[havingfitz]

Gerry

/

cloud

need to be nowhere near mylo/lylo.

[havingfitz]

Gamma is 100% SK.

It doesn't matter.

[havingfitz]

Attack the play, not the player.

Good advice which I'm one of several who've lapsed on.

Can we get a vote count?

[havingfitz]

I want full reads, with simple reasoning.

I gave you this at your request and got voted by you afterwards with no reasoning. What are your reads?

Can you do this before the day is over? Whether you are a vig or sk I know you are looking for scum. I hope you are at least.

[havingfitz]

...to TwoFace

....

What are your current reads on LUV and Cloud?

Would still like to know this from 2F.

gerry...could you give your's as well?

[havingfitz]

So Gamma...what happened?

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Cloud

[havingfitz]

Im not scum

Cool...neither am I. That was easy.

I think it's Gamma and 2 scum.

@Cloud...do you have a case on me?
I take it you think I'm scum with LUV?

As strong as town is I seriously doubt Gamma is a vig. He just needs to come clean. As to why scum didn't kill him I have no fn clue.

[havingfitz]

you don't think he was blocked by jar?

Possibly. Unless Gamma just chose not to shoot.

I'm just confused as to why scum let Gamma survive the night.

Another possibility is with as much power as town has had in this game I could see scum having more power that could have effected a potential Gamma shot or revealed JJDs pr. Probably the former imo.

[havingfitz]

abd fitz is scum

Why didn't you vote me then?

[havingfitz]

Food for thought....

I think we're in Mylo. A mislynch today and a Gamma kill tonight results in 2 on 2, imo, which = scum win. So a town vote on town today paves way for a quick lynch for the win.

Not sure a no lynch (intentional or not) helps us any. Sk just mucks things up.

[havingfitz]

Fitz. He was stating I was probtown but now believes I'm SK.

What does that matter? How is me flip flopping on wth you are AI? We can't lynch you today. It only matters to scum. JJD either RBd you for some reason (would that have blocked Gamma's shot?) or scum have a way of effecting your action. Which would be the only way imo that they would not want you dead. If they knew they could control you. Regardless of your alignment.

If you are a vig town is extremely pr heavy. Even if you aren't a vig and were an sk...scum would still need more pr to compensate. So they could have very well blocked you somehow.

Fitz/

Gerry

like I said all along.

I hope you are scum so that my "wow...his game" assessment is less wrong.

[havingfitz]

what do you guys think?

I think the last day or two you have been coming up with an unusually large amount of "Cloud is town" inferences.

[havingfitz]

this is who I really want lynched anyway

VOTE: CloudKicker

qft

[havingfitz]

Smh

sorry but fitz is sounding townier lately. U may be wrong here dude.

qft

[havingfitz]

I guess I could do cloud over fitz cause at least he's trying

^ this

[havingfitz]

Shit I could be wrong.

^ this

[havingfitz]

Cloud...you sound like you know I'm town.

[havingfitz]

Shit I could be wrong.

^ this

But your play suggests you are scum.

1. You as town said you don't bus if you don't have to. You didn't vote grey despite saying you were going to vote him or me

2. You telegraphed your vote on me day 3 from basically the jump and your isos were all biased with the idea that at the end you were going to vote me.

3. You don't do much if any scum hunting. You don't even really interact with people either.

4. You show suspicion of Gerry yet drop it without good reasoning and despite me catching him in 3 lies about how things happened in the game, you ignore them all and push me and refuse to vote him (see the point about bussing)

5. I've done at least 2 things that should at least make you think I could be town, yet you have refused to consider that possibility

So sorry, if you're town your play has been like scum

1. This point makes no sense. I very very rarely lynch a scum partner. If I am on a scum lynch odds it's probably because the lynch was inevitable or unavoidable. WRT Grey...you yourself have said D2 is of no relevence regarding his lynch (except for the gerry quickhammer). I stated I would vote Grey and held off to allow some discussion but he was essentially quicklynched in a few hours. So this is a misrep by you to infer my not being on Grey's D2 wagon is somehow AI towards me when you have already, correctly, stated nothing AI can be taken from being on it.

2. So you are saying you could tell I had suspicions towards you before I voted you? Is that a scum tell? If someone suspects another player and it's pretty obvious....that means the "telegrapher" is scum? LOL wrong.

3. If by scum hunting you mean I don't tunnel on someone an entire long ass day and get them mislynched? Or I don't hop on a scum wagon when caught scum is in auto lynch mode like Grey was? Or I don't repeatedly accuse people of lying when they haven't or say people are doing things that they would normally do as town despite the fact I am not in their heads and do not know how they would act as town? OK...you are right. And the amount I intereact with people is NAI. That depends on the game state..the participants in the game...how busy I may be in RL...and my usual post rate which is a lot less than someone like you or a player like JFSF. (ahem)

4. I have a level of suspicion towards everyone in the game that flutuates constantly. Could gerry be scum? Sure. But who else has been clamoring on his wagon to get him lynched? It's not like you are getting a ton of support. Other than 2 pissed at him votes yesterday by LUV and Gamma it's been you pushing him for the most part. Why isn't everyone else jumping on the GERRY LIED THREE TIMES wagon? Why aren't you knocking them for not bowing down to the masterful scum case you have presented on gerry? And you cannot knock me for not "bussing" gerry when you don't even know unequivocally that gerry is scum. And if he is scum and I am not involved in getting him lynched...that doesn't mean I am scum because I am quite often wrong as town and not on scum lynches. It's when I am ON a scum lynch that is telling....not off. Also...iirc...I'm pretty sure one or two of the "lies" you are accusing gerry of I did not agree with. I do not remember the 3rd. I'll go look at them again.

5. Where have I refused to consider you town? That is a misrep. I have not called you a lock to be scum and in fact I have felt less inclined to think you are scum towards the end of D3. Translation....TwoFace COULD be town. In fact, right now I'm leaning towards a scumpool of Cloud, LUV and gerry. I will say gerry and Cloud's opinions towards each other has peaked my suspicion. Why have you not commented, iirc, on the lovefest between them (Cloud and gerry)?

[havingfitz]

And i don't need you to respond to these. I won't read them.

You don't control my actions.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Gerry

Rather him today.

Rather him then who and why?

[havingfitz]

Drunk posting best posting

^ and this declaration is of as much value as the drunk posting it refers to. I.e. none.

[havingfitz]

Cloud's not getting any traction.
I don't like the gerry/Cloud buddy vibe.
Perusing some of gerry's scum games I see some similarities to this game.
Progressing this game.
= VOTE: gerry

If someone comes in and hammers and gerry is scum....I hope scum are smart enough to NK Gamma. If he's bulletproof town is already screwed.

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

[havingfitz]

Well that got your attention...didn't it cloud

[havingfitz]

fitz last post is textbook scum overexplaining their vote, he also just went back on his hard read he never wanted to touch

Explaining reasoning is not bad. In fact I highly encourage town to be clear in their thought processes. And gerry has not been untouchable...if you payed attention you would realize it.

And you not voting gerry tells me you are confirmed scum OR TwoFace and LUV are partners with each other or with gerry. Which I doubt.

[havingfitz]

Link the game where I "buddied"

I didn't say buddying was the similarity.

[havingfitz]

theres at the very very least one mafia in fitz an luv regardless of gerry alignement

I'm town, I've just checked out.

I'm town. I haven't checked out.

[havingfitz]

The 2nd time I was maf with eager snake and I was traitor. Maf didn't know who i was until lylo when we blitzed. My other partner was universal tr after eager got lynched day 1. I see no parallels

^This game. Your buddies don't matter.

Uzi if you're town I need you to unvote and give me reads please

Uzi twoface if one of you are town can you unvote. I'm tryingo figure things out.

^The similarities from this game. Not going to quote from the other game.

With HF playing poorly

Said the delusional tunneling mislyncher.

[havingfitz]

Bullshit , fitz. Why can't you link it if you're telling the truth? My maf partner was tr by every one why would I fos him

It's your game which you already referred to? Why do you need a link?

And I've already said...your partners do not matter. I didn't consider them.

[havingfitz]

cool stuff, now is the switch of reads in 3 pages flat scum theatre

You saying gerry is scum?

[havingfitz]

Whatever. One of twoface and lil is town. Fitz has no reason to vote me like that as town. VOTE: Fitz

What's your read on 2F now?

[havingfitz]

. Fitz has no

I clearly just said in that post

You mean this:

One of twoface and lil is town. Fitz has no reason to vote me like that as town. VOTE: Fitz

That doesn't tell me your current read on 2F. You back off 2F now to now it's he or LUV but you are voting me. So are me and 2F both scum? Or me and LUV? But definitely not Cloud for some reason...

---

You've been caught lying 3 times and then get mad cause you think fitz lied.

You just lied

I might have been wrong cause he just lied about meta.

So no one cares that fitz just lied?

But the lie he is accusing me of....I never even said. He's voting me for a lie he is concocting.

Link the game where I "buddied"

I didn't say buddying was the similarity.

---

Gamma...why are you waiting to vote?

[havingfitz]

Right...so he should be voting who he thinks is scum. So why isn't he?

[havingfitz]

you DID lie about meta. nothing in this game is similar to the eagar snake game. as the interactions between me as traitor to a mafia is different than 2 maf partners. as traitor i have to worry about being night killed thus is why i would act different than my partners.

I did not say your partners in any other games was what I found similar. I went on to quote post in this game that I thought were similar to some in your last scum game. Why do you keep bringing up your partners? Idgaf about them. I've spelled it out clearly and you keep saying the same inaccuracy.

[havingfitz]

Oh I misunderstood. Which post? quote

I've already provided them. Recently. You might actually have to look for them if you don't recall.



Also and btw...Gamma...you may not have noticed but it would seem the game isn't going anywhere until you figure out who you are voting.

[havingfitz]

Since the meta lie was a misunderstanding.....why are you voting me gerry? Because my read on you has changed?

[havingfitz]

VC Mod?

[havingfitz]

I was more interested in an up to date VC from the mod. Not an old incorrect one from you.

[havingfitz]

Safe to say he's not getting lynched unless the game is still on and we've eliminated 3 mafia.
So what value is your comment?

[havingfitz]

None. Just saying. I'm here bored out of my mine waiting for him to decide who he wants to vote

LOL. Ditto.

[havingfitz]

Gamma....who are your top 2 town reads?

[havingfitz]

Gamma!!!!!

[havingfitz]

lies, gerry has no gf hes an anime fuckboi

I don't care if you are scum or not....this is funny.

[havingfitz]

What's your case gerry? That my reads have changed?

[havingfitz]

None. Just saying. I'm here bored out of my mine waiting for him [Gamma] to decide who he wants to vote

Gamma....who are your top 2 town reads?

Gamma!!!!!

C'mon Gamma....you made a shit load of posts yesterday. This game is log-jammed waiting for you.

Please give this game some attention and make a fcuking vote.

[havingfitz]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This game is messed up. Even if we lynch scum today I'm not sure how it plays out tonight if Gamma is not the NK. If he actually is the vig then a scum lynch today would at least enable him to try another shot tonight and town would still have a chance.

I'm pretty sure a mislynch results in end of game, unless there were only 2 scum in this game to begin with which I highly doubt with as powerful town has been. Also...if we mislynch and by some miracle Gamma is not NK'd (and he is an SK)...then I do not think the game would be over. But that just makes my head hurt thinking of how that could play out. Pretty sure town assured a loss regardless of what Gamma is if we mislynch today though.

And Gamma...with as powerful as the town has already proven to be with PRs...I highly doubt you are a vig. But don't get all defensive about that because I have no interest in voting you. The only way I could envision you being voted is if there were 2 more scum flips and the game was not over yet. And it was you and 2 others still alive. Then you would of course be the lynch.

Gerry...that case you presented on me is terrible. If you look over my game...at some point I have suspected everyone in this game. Even you. So shifting my reads around because of rereads or actions by others is not scummy.

Looking at the voting today, fmpov of course, gerry was at L-1 for a decent amount of time while Cloud was posting.

IF...gerry is town....there was no reason for scum!Cloud to not hammer. Other than the fact that it would have been basically sealed his fate if there was another day. But I do not think there would be another day if we mislynch today.

So if gerry is town....I think Cloud is town.

But I do not think they are both town.

They could both be scum (my current hypothesis) or Cloud could be town while gerry is scum with LUV or TwoFace.

The only way (fmpov) that gerry and Cloud are BOTH town is if TwoFace and Luv are both scum just waiting for Gamma or Cloud to lay a vote down on gerry so TwoFace can hammer for the win.

So possible pairings IMO:

gerry and Cloud
gerry and TwoFace
gerry and LUV
LUV and TwoFace

I would be really surprised if gerry and TwoFace were scumbuddies. I would begrudgingly have to give them props. So I hope that is not the case.

That would leave:

gerry and Cloud

gerry and TwoFace

gerry and LUV
LUV and TwoFace

gerry (and LUV) still make up 2/3rds of the possible scum teams so I think odds still have him as the best lynch for today.

Gamma...if you shot at gerry as you claim you did last night...then why would there be any hesitation to vote him today?

Same suspect...except with the kill actually going through this time.

[havingfitz]

Why is that lol? He has a vote. He's sitting on the pot. It would be nice if he got off it.

So TwoFace....what is your read on LUV?

[havingfitz]

Idk = I don't know.

Wasn't sure how I was reading them att and wanted to get off null....one way or the other.

[havingfitz]

So someone saying they wanted to get off of null (i.e. idk) was confusing?

[havingfitz]

gerry....it feels like you just drop in....put a few words together to make some sentences...and then think your work is done and people can feel safe about you.

Why should Gamma vote me over his proclaimed target from last night?

Is your case on me that my reads have changed during the game?

[havingfitz]

I do 90% of my posting over the phone.

[havingfitz]

gerry....it feels like you just drop in....put a few words together to make some sentences...and then think your work is done and people can feel safe about you.

Why should Gamma vote me over his proclaimed target from last night?

Is your case on me that my reads have changed during the game?

Yes
I'm on vacation still. It's hard for me to be active. If you can't tell the difference from day 1 and 2 from the rest. I was not scum read those days when I was not on vacation and able to explain reads more

You being on vacation has nothing to do with my read on you.

Also...my reads changed several times before you mention them I believe. The only real difference prior to your vote on me is me voting you. Yes?

[havingfitz]

And not surprisingly..Gamma has reached products status here despite posting regularly on site.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Cloudkicker

[havingfitz]

Oh ffs. We're going to end in a nl

At least the game wouldn't be over...I assume Gamma would be the nk. What would be funny is if scum had a jk which prevented them from killing Gamma while preventing his shot. Not sure if I've seen scum jks though.

Cloud or gerry works for me.

[havingfitz]

So Cloud is at L-2.

We know Gamma is not mafia.
I'm not mafia (granted you do not all believe that).

So fmpov that means IF Cloud was town...there would be two scum off his wagon in gerry-LUV-TwoFace and therefore Cloud could have been hammered by now for the mislynch/scum win.

Since Cloud has not been hammered...this strongly confirms my suspcicions that he is scum.

To expound on that with my earlier gerry wagon comments wrt when he was at L-1....

If gerry were town and Cloud was scum (as the current wagon would seem to indicate) Cloud could have sealed the deal earlier today with a hammer on gerry.

So fmpov...at this time there is no option that works out other than a Cloud and gerry team.

[havingfitz]

So Cloud is at L-2.

We know Gamma is not mafia.
I'm not mafia (granted you do not all believe that).

So fmpov that means IF Cloud was town...there would be two scum off his wagon in gerry-LUV-TwoFace and therefore Cloud could have been hammered by now for the mislynch/scum win.

Since Cloud has not been hammered...this strongly confirms my suspcicions that he is scum.

To expound on that with my earlier gerry wagon comments wrt when he was at L-1....

If gerry were town and Cloud was scum (as the current wagon would seem to indicate) Cloud could have sealed the deal earlier today with a hammer on gerry.

So fmpov...at this time there is no option that works out other than a Cloud and gerry team.

Bump

[havingfitz]

So let's lynch Gerry already

If Gamma switches to gerry so will I.

[havingfitz]

zzzzzzzz

LUV and TwoFace...are either of you scum?

[havingfitz]

IF Cloud was town...there would be two scum off his wagon in gerry-LUV-TwoFace and therefore Cloud could have been hammered by now for the mislynch/scum win.

Since Cloud has not been hammered...this strongly confirms my suspicions that he is scum.

i am town.

I'm town.

I am town

I'm town

I am town

I'm a bodyguard.

[havingfitz]

Are you?

Nope. 100% town.

[havingfitz]

Cloud....why is gerry town?

Question to all....does a gerry and LUV team work? I'm out for the day so probably won't post again.

VOTE: gerry

[havingfitz]

Can someone fucking vote Fitz.

You can almost taste your scum win...can't you?

Gamma...I am town.

I really want to ad hom you at the moment but suffice to say you are voting town. If you don't really care because you are in fact an SK and screwed...why give the game to scum? You seriously suck.

So TwoFace and LUV confirm they are town fmpov (again?). Great.

So focking vote gerry Gamma. I think...not sure....but I think you are of the opinion 2F and LUV are town. If you can't get it through your brain that I am town...at least put some credence in their opinions.

Why would you side with the CK supported wagon? His slot has done shit this entire game.
You really think gerry is town the way he has played today? And if you think 2F's suspicions towards him have any merit?

I'm town. Move your vote Gamma. Like I said...unless you just want to drag town down with you and hand over the game to mafia.

fitz is mefia, im not moving my vote

I'm not mafia. I'd call you an idiot but you are just playing to your wincon.

1 scum in tf/luv since fitz is conf by the lack of votes because gamma cant be mafia, this confirm fitz as scum

No...this confirms you and gerry are a team. I am town....unless there is some scenario that could result in the game still being open tomorrow (which I doubt)...there would be no reason for 2F or LUV to not vote me if they are scum. Therefore they are town. As am I.

TL:DR;

Gamma, get your head out of #$%^& and vote gerry

[havingfitz]

Well I'm town 2F. I can't fight paranoia and gut. If there is something more tangible that you have issues with I can try to address those. But I hope gameplay guides your choices.

And as for who I have or haven't suspected and any changes I've made in reads...I think I have suspected everyone still alive at some point and had votes on everyone (except Gamma ironically iirc). Reason being? I'm town and do not know wtf scum is. Reads have changed. Shit has happened. Where I stand now is a gerry Cloud scumteam based on the fact I'm still alive and that neither of them have done anything pro-town that I can recall (gerry today....Cloud's slot ever).



Also,

Seriously Gamma

...vote gerry.

[havingfitz]

Cloud could have hammered you yesterday but didn't. Whys he a scum read? A mislynch yesterday helps scum get closer to a win not hurt it.

I'm assuming there are two scum left plus whatever Gamma is. Even if Gamma is an SK....I still think there are three mafia.

On that assumption...a mislynch yesterday only get's scum closer to a win and hammering me would not look good towards someone who had just entered the game. JarJar unvoted me to take me off L-1 before Cloud, who had just replaced in the same day I went to L-1 iirc, had had a chance to make a hammer on me look legitimate.

gerry couldn't have hammered me yesterday because up to that point I was a strong town read for him. Hammering me for a mislynch would have just amped up your desire to lynch him.

Today, based on my aforementioned assumption, is what counts. The mislynch today is the one that most likely wins it for scum.

I'm town...lynching me today gets scum the mislynch they need.

[havingfitz]

Uzi if you're town I need you to unvote and give me reads please

Uzi twoface if one of you are town can you unvote. I'm tryingo figure things out.

^The similarities from this game. Not going to quote from the other game.

From Mini 1830. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8326798 gerry was scum (traitor).

Here are the links I found similar to the one quoted above:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8409556
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8409635
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8409666
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8409706
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8409725

[havingfitz]

I asked for this earlier and he couldnt produce

I did produce...I gave you the 2 quotes from this game and told you which mafia game. I'm not going to give you a link to your own game. You know where to find it.

Both games have nothing similar to this game. He's bullshiting

I've already said this more than once....

you DID lie about meta. nothing in this game is similar to the eagar snake game. as the interactions between me as traitor to a mafia is different than 2 maf partners. as traitor i have to worry about being night killed thus is why i would act different than my partners.

I did not say your partners in any other games was what I found similar. I went on to quote post in this game that I thought were similar to some in your last scum game. Why do you keep bringing up your partners? Idgaf about them. I've spelled it out clearly and you keep saying the same inaccuracy.

Oh I misunderstood. Which post? quote

[havingfitz]

I see nothing similar. Are you telling me that asking someone to unvote is similar? lol

When you do it repeatedly in this game. And you do it even more repeatedly in your last finished scum game (one of two I could find and that you admit to having)...then yes. That is a similarity. As scum you would of course not agree with it.

Here is a recent town game of yours where you were in from the start. You were a Doctor. And yet as your wagon grew you did not bother to ask anyone to unvote you once:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

So you have to disagree. Hopefully

Gamma

fcuking gets in here and wakes up and votes you.

[havingfitz]

So your

whole basis on a 180 flip read

on me and your previous scumread twoface

is that I asked people to unvote in a game i was traitor

, so that automatically means i am mafia this game.

My "180" on you came way before I looked into your previous scum games.... nice misrep. And who cares if you were a traitor? You were scum...you knew it...and you did not want to be lynched.

havingfitz, I still think your slow could be town cause even tho Vij had a bad read on me, his thought process was townie. But

your 180 read flip on me

when 2face suddenly voted me is sketchy

Cloud's not getting any traction.
I don't like the gerry/Cloud buddy vibe.
Perusing some of gerry's scum games I see some similarities to this game.
Progressing this game.
= VOTE: gerry

If someone comes in and hammers and gerry is scum....I hope scum are smart enough to NK Gamma. If he's bulletproof town is already screwed.

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

[havingfitz]

If gerry is town....c'est la vie.

Also

I don't like how you finish the post. If you're town I don't think you would say that.

Well you would be wrong because I said it and I am town in this game.

[havingfitz]

I did not think I would be yolo hammered randomly by someone popping out of nowhere, and I was PR not really wanting to claim. That's 2 different scenarios.

You made several posts when you were at L-1 in the game I link to. I didn't say anything about you claiming your price or not...the point ispread you didn't ask people to unvote you. As town. But I've shown that you do when on danger as scum.

And lol at Cloud not even trying. Shame Gamma is handing scum a win.

[havingfitz]

Just vote fitz

Fitz is town. Voting Fitz results in a mislynch/town loss.

Gamma needs to change his vote.

[havingfitz]

And

Gamma

is out of pocket until Tuesday. And Tuesday is the deadline so he may or may be back in time. And he somehow has it in his mind that I am scum with gerry. So he obviously doesn't know that I do not try to get my partners lynched when I am scum. In other words I am not partners with gerry. Because I am not partners with anyone. Because I am town.

So why don't you [Gamma] listen to two players that you ARE town reading and vote gerry. The same gerry you think is scum who is applauding your vote on me (because it results in a mislynch).

TwoFace

...can you please move back to gerry? At least Gamma has indicated he suspects gerry. There is no reason to think Gamma will vote Cloud. And at least the competing L-1 wagon to me gives him the chance to avoid a no lynch (and a mislynch) by moving over to his other scum suspect.

[havingfitz]

I'm leaving for Disney tomorrow. I'm not leaving with the possibility of a NL. I'll hammer you if I have to since the way I see it town can't win

Gamma says he's away till next week. If you want responsibility for town losing vice the chance Gamma smartens up and moves to gerry then just fcuking vote me and go to Disney on a losing note.

I'm town.

[havingfitz]

What I find frustrating is that town is actually so close to a win. And that it's in Gamma's best interests regardless of his alignment to try and kill scum today yet he is voting against the consensus of people he thinks are town and instead is voting with the two scum. And for gut? Instead of gameplay...or lack there of.

[havingfitz]

Why is your play different this game from when cloud was scum and you got mislynched? You put in much more effort then you are here.

Off the top of my head I would have to disagree with this statement. I think I have put more into this game than any since I have come back to MS.net. And every game is different...I do not recall context, RL, interest level for that game. I'm town here is all I can tell you.

It's sort of the same situation. If you get lynched and you are town, game is over. The hardest you pushed for anyone this game was for me and now you've dropped that and want me to take your side.

What happened to all those things I did that made you think I was scum? Why am I not scum to you anymore? Why are you so sure it's Gerry?

The things I pointed out for you I still do not like. They were just over come by other events or changes in reads. My reads fluctuate constantly in a game unless something causes me to have a firm idea of what someone's alignment is. Clouds play and the buddying between he and gerry combined with reservations about suspecting you changed my direction. And that has been confirmed fmpov with you and LUV having passed on multiple opportunities to hammer me for what I attest would be a town loss.

[havingfitz]

Luv...I'm not mafia. Don't hammer me.

[havingfitz]

Right. I'm east coast so I'll be awake before deadline

TwoFace...I'm town.

Gamma...please get back before deadline and vote gerry along with LUV and I so that hopefully TwoFace can hammer him.

[havingfitz]

Gamma...I'm town. Hopefully 2Face checks in and hammers gerry.
Your vote sure has the two of them (gerry and ck) scurrying.

[havingfitz]

Ahhh....sigh.
Like I said....I'm town. So unless TwoFace or LUV were messing with town by not hammering me the multiple chances it got....then Cloud is scum too.

Enjoy your v/la 2f.

[havingfitz]

C'mon mod!

BTW....I like the crickets coming from the gerry cloud combo.

[havingfitz]

^ We'll thanks for confirmation.

Shoot Cloud Gamma.

[havingfitz]

Ha!

Why no RB on Gamma Cloud?

Congrats town!

[havingfitz]

Mafia was stacked too though. And four of first six townies eliminated were PRS. Mafia wasn't in bad shape. Plus you had Gamma on your side the first two nights

[havingfitz]

Who reviewed your setup mod?

Will you be posting night actions/results?