Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[Lexa]

LA through Tuesday

<<< Acknowledged. >>>

[Lexa]

Moreso than I've already been, I mean

[mastina]

Hey, know how I said that I am v/LA over weekends? Yeah, well doubly so now. Lost internet and am phoneposting. Be back soonish. I hope.

Ninth Votecount

:

karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, BlueBloodedToffee)

Alisae - 2 (PranaDevil, shannon)

XnadrojX - 2 (karnos, Alisae)
TheRealGin-N-Tonic - 1 (All Alone)
Garmr - 1 (KTthecreeper)
All Alone - 1 (Lexa)
shannon - 1 (LicketyQuickety)

Not Voting - 1 (Pepchoninga)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

karnos is at L-3.

Day 1's deadline is Friday, February 10th, @ 2:30 PM PST--(expired on 2017-02-10 14:30:00).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  
• Lexa is V/LA through Tuesday, January 24th.

[shannon]

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

I wish I knew how to be so concise as you are. But yes, that's what I thought was going on. Right now though, I'm not really sure. All I know is that I'm going to leave Lickety alone because we're not getting anywhere productive. I think we're talking past each other there.

[PranaDevil]

Right, entertaining weekend, I attempted to at least somewhat keep up to date on my phone, but keeping track of that shit is hard when you can't clearly read who said what easily. So now I'm back home and will have a nose at what happened properly, from around the time my vote on Alisae was picked up on and started being somewhat queried (as I feel that's where we switched from RVS to actual hunting).

<<< I now empathize with this. A lot. >>>

I'd say the first time there was actual stuff of note was LQ's post #80. Though it's a terrible reasoning, always as for reasons first, I've seen players catch scum early on even in RVS. Also, scum are likely to typo more than others? Bit of a bugger for me, this laptop's shit and misses letters all over the shop, so while I try and catch all typos, I can be almost 100% certain I'll miss one at some point despite focusing as hard as I can. Must be scum then...

Doesn't mean LQ is scum though, but definitely god awful reasoning at the least.

Alisae's post #84 is solid, not from a town nor scum view, but from a "pointing out your reasoning was awful" view.

LQ's post 88 however I like. If only because of point 5, I like getting out of RVS as much as anyone else, so a post that gets us out of it is great. I've even done deliberately scummy posting to get us out of RVS so we can get the game focused, so a bad post (80), to get us into good discussion is fine in my eyes, and gives a slight town lean. Scum should be happy to keep RVS going, while town want to get discussion sparked (and lurkers are annoying as piss regardless of the side they're on).

XnadrodX's post #92 is awful, seriously bad, LQ stated shannon was either bad town or obv. scum being obv. scummy, which... yeah I disagree with regardless, but XnadrodX focuses just on the obv. scum bit and ignores the entire fact LQ even said it could be bad town play? Reads a bit try hard to me, not a fan of deliberately ignring part of a statement because it doesn't fit your own intentions. That is a scummy move.

Due to never playing with people in this game before (and I don't look for meta that I don't already know, depression means I struggle with effort anyway, doing something that feels like work for a game? Bugger that), I have no clue if karnos' post #99 is standard for them regarding not really giving a statement on things (it's bad form either way), however I'm not sure on the LQ wagon here, there seems no reason for it and the fact Alisae dived right in on the next post seems a bit weird. I don't understand the wagoning at all. LQ seems fine, if a little confused with things. Plus, as I said, LQ was the first to start actively moving the game forward, that's instant town points from me there.

Thus, kronos' vote seems bad for multiple reasons, and Alisae's is almost diving on after the first vote.

post #104 from karnos is awful, If LQ is scum, Garmr is a partner? why? Why could LQ not be scum and Garmr just not like the vote? What about if LQ is town, and Garmr is scum wanting town cred? What if both are town and Garmr has a town read on LQ at this point and felt a vote without stating the reasoning is at best bad play, and at worst, scummy? All are valid. Fair enough on the explanation, it doesn't work that way though, town should always be arguing things as well, they need their point across. Hell, if anything, unless scum is being voted for they don't give a toss anyway, so town will be arguing their point even more than scum will. Or at least, they always should be, and if you're town and don't do this, you should be.

However, to answer the last question, yes, an opportunistic vote would be a wagon that you can dive on easily that's gaining steam, being number one on it is rarely opportunistic, in fact it would be rare for it to be, maybe a cock up in wording leads to an easy mislynch and scum want on early, but this wasn't it, so I'd not argue karnos was opportunistic, just could have done with actually posting reasons when voting, not waiting until later.

Not feeling karnos scum at this point, though considering the lack of any tells, he still falls in the top two with XnadrodX.

shannon post #108 Is lovely. Clear explanation (I'm crap for that, this wall is evidence, and I apologise), and seemingly town. More pushing of people though, this doesn't mean a town lean, but if I read future posts forwarding the game, I think town. If future posts are filler, this is likely scum wanting to seem town without actually saying anything.

Garmr post #111 I like. Pretty much says what I just did, and I'll accept the "predict the best place to put their votes" thing too. Never really thought about it like that, but yes, an opportunistic vote could be "this looks like a wagon may start, bung on a vote quick". So additional lean for karnos as scum there, and I almost want to call Garmr obv. town here.

post #115 by nyd is... shit? I dunno what else to say, there's clearly plenty to look at, and he just throws a vote at Alisae with shit-tastic reasoning? Buh?

post #120 from XnadrodX, should I just point to Garmr's point about opportunistic people and save time? I shall indeed do that.

(Side note... it's just now I spot his sig saying to just call him Jordan... my phone didn't show sigs so I got confused, and on the laptop I wasn't paying attention to the sigs til I just caught it as I went to move on, shall be Jordan from now as easier to type)

Lexa's entire response from post #128 (no link) onwards is weird, I don't get any of it, what's more I forgot they were in the game, same with All Alone (where her vote is), Would like to see more posting rather than not contributing.

Alisae, regarding post #142, why is my post above it definite town? I see nothing in what I said to be town, if anything I'd say it was neutral, was more dipping in to let people know I've not abandoned the game. I get a worrying feeling it could be scum trying to keep town on side here.

Then there's a shit posting batch from Alisae and Pep... fuck that noise. Seriously... over 20 posts that equate to white noise, take that bullshit to outside the game, it doesn't belong in here, and I also stick to what I posted while dipping my head in, at best it's annoying as fuck, at worst it's scummy as it just adds fluff. Add in that Pep has done literally nothing at this point. Yeah... scummy as all fuck there. Active, while not actually "active".

Posts #166 - #168 from Garmr are so obv town it's scary. Solid hunting, actual posting... could just be that there's so little of it going on that it stands out, but even if that's the case, it's a welcome relief from the shit posting.

Jordan post #172 seems pretty good in regards to explanation, though I don't like the current potential for linking people in any fashion. It's all fine later in the game and such, but for this early, suggesting partners and that they set this up or that up is stretching it. Plus, vote karnos over LQ because of the feeling that LQ could be deliberately letting karnos get town cred for voting for him, but don't vote LQ at all... nah, sorry, there's more holes in this than swiss cheese.

I will also point out, "seems" pretty good. For me it feels like it's attempting to be town, rather than actually being a town post. The reasoning doesn't match up, and it definitely looks like sudden buddying with Garmr and shannon (who did pick up with better posting from my earlier statement, but nothing massive that I could tell... in fact nothing stood out to me).

And... LQ goes and posts a run of shite from post #175 that are awful. Nothing of substance, nothing to produce discussion, nothing that looks like scum hunting, just posting for the sake of posting. Shoots up on my scum radar for that.

karnos' post #187 and post #188 make no sense to me. Nothing about predicting the future, just about probabilities that if it seemed like someone was about to have a wagon forming, diving on that person early looks good, it would seem "less" opportunistic to be number 1 on a wagon than number 4 for instance, might even buy scum an extra day if they were lucky.

188 though confuses me, what's "shitty scum logic"? Also "best bet" isn't a basis for a read, even going through the thread thus far I can see multiple people worthy of a vote (at this point, LQ, Jordan, Pep, nyd, karnos (obv. don't vote yourself)), all with actual reasons that can be properly argued, a quick throwaway comment about "shitty scum logic" doesn't sit well with me. What's more annoying is it doesn't feel scummy either, just like you don't quite get the game and that there needs to be a lot of discussion which you aren't providing. So while I can see where others are going with you being voted as scum (I even say here you're one of the stronger scum reads), I don't think it's worth giving it a strong read with this. Just... please add more to the discussion when posting?

Alisae post #210 Attacking someone for shitty logic even though you think they're town, is not scummy. Same as agreeing with someone's point, whilst believing they are scum doesn't mean anything. You should question everyone in this game. Unless you are scum "everyone" can be scum. I've said Garmr is obv. town to me, but I'll question him, and push if I feel the need to either get an answer or get a reaction, if anything pushing people should be a town read (simlarly to being forgetful should be, Scum will be checking and double checking, town will be happy to just post... though beware of WIFOM). So the reasoning in this post is atrocious, and I agree with Jordan being scummy as hell still, but the way you got to it seems weird and I don't like it at all.

shannon post #228 pretty much sums up my feelings on LQ's attack on her. I really, really, am not liking LQ at this stage, just something about the way he posts rubs me the wrong way. Especially with claiming shannon's Alisae vote was oportunistic, I can understand the vote myself, and I didn't find your tunnelling to be all that tunnelling... seriously, it didn't really register as tunnelling, just as general posting. shannon gave a fine reason for the vote, LQ dives on it as if it had anything to do with his "tunnelling", sorry, no, no scum hunting there LQ.

You can't say it's scummy to see an opening and vote because that's half of this game, people see something scummy, and vote. Sometimes they sheep another's vote, sometimes they see something you didn't, but ultimately, we need 7 people for a lynch, that means 6 others will see the same as the first person on that wagon, and that doesn't mean any of them were scummy for doing it.

Really feels like reaching at this stage, and scummy to boot.

TheRealGin replaces nyd, does a bunch of good posting to bring him up to a null read (seriously, one post from nyd and it was scum city... so it too lots of good posts from Gin to fix that to null)

and... more shit posting from Alisae.

BBT comes in with post 261 (no link) and literally votes karnos and does nothing else? Fuck outta here.

Also, Pep, not voting is ALWAYS terrible, "lol" all you want, no vote = no pressure... also do some goddamned scum hunting, you've done nothing thus far despite posting multiple times in blocks and clearly reading the thread. No, the LQ/Alisae statement in post #259 doesn't cut it.

-----------

So, quick recap of reads:

Town
Garmr
Shannon

Null
Gin

Scum (In order from scummiest to least)
LQ
Jordan
karnos
Alisae
Pep

Need to actually bloody do something
BBT
All Alone
KTthecreeper
Lexa
Pep (who lands here as well through doing sweet fa, yet still actually posting)

vote: LicketyQuickety

Am more than happy to see a lynch on my top three (LQ, Jordan or karnos), but am voting for who I believe is most likely scum.

Also, huge apologies for the wall-o-text, will aim to post more regularly from now on to avoid this.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

before I read, wow. That's quite the wall. Let's not keep that trend :p

[PranaDevil]

Yeah, that's my catch up from the weekend, I'm also crap at condensing down things I say, so I'll do my damndest not to wall-post, but apologies for when i do post too much in one lump.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

What was my slot saying that was so bad? lol

"ISO myself" sounds weird

Also not an attempt to buddy but even tho it was a wall post, twas good posting by you.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Yo Prana, I know you're voting LQ, good vote but you should come join me on the pressure wagon on Pepe le Pew

VOTE: Pep

[PranaDevil]

It was the fact that after everything that was obvious to respond to up to that point, he was just saying to all wagon Alisae, in essence "for the lols" so to speak. As if we were in RVS or something.

It became null though as I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt that it was just someone not that invested in the game and so replaced out, and the posts prior to that wouldn't involve much hunting. Ergo, your hunting removes the issues I had with the slot. Doesn't make you town, just means you're not deserving of being viewed as scum for someone elses actions.

Can't argue for a Pep push either, though he will be moving up my scum list unless he starts actually being useful and fast. Any of my top 3 I'm fine with, but Pep I'm not "that" certain on, same with Alisae, I just have leans that way for them. kronos and above however I've decent enough scum reads to be happy with a vote.

[All Alone]

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Back to putting my vote to somewhere useful then

VOTE: Karnos

[Alisae]

Oh no I shitposted. I must be scum...
Yeah, actually bring up a case on me that doesn't use the word "Shitposting" because that's NAI.
And if you actually wanted to be smart and do #research you'll notice that games I start in on I usually shitpost a lot.

pedit: Is this scum AA?
I think it might be.
Here, have a vote
VOTE: AA

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Alisae, do that thing where you say why someone might be scum, if not join my karnos wagon

[Alisae]

Ok

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

They don't want to pressure anyone atm nor do they have SRs on anyone atm.

[Alisae]

Alisae, do that thing where you say why someone might be scum, if not join my karnos wagon

Also gut pings here, tho I could be just overthinking + overeacting.

[Alisae]

Alisae, do that thing where you say why someone

might

be scum, if not join my karnos wagon

Also gut pings here, tho I could be just overthinking + overeacting.

The bolded part is what triggered gut pings.

[Alisae]

Also Gin I can explain why I'm still SRing you if you want me to do that as well.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

everyone might be scum, that's how it works?

P-Edit: Okay now you're confusing me

[Alisae]

no, the gut pings are wierd because for some reason it almost comes off to me as you'll know she'll flip scum.

[Alisae]

Also Gin, in response to the Desperado Reaction Test, this read as VERY genuine to me.

Oh... Okay well I guess I'll just /in for another game then... that was short lived for me

[Alisae]

Is this the point where I bring out my VCA?

<<< It's never too early for VCA! Why, I've done VCA from as early as the first post in a game! >>>

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I just really don't get where you're coming from with someone using the word "might." I mean no offense but it's silly so I don't know how to take it seriously.


The point of the Desperado?

P-Edit: oh lord VCA is neigh useful until later on with flips. In order to do VCA without flips, you set yourself up with confbias. Basically, you fit the evidence to work with your narrative instead of using the evidence to build the narrative. Sets you up for failure.

[Alisae]

Yeah I could just be overeacting

And the Desperado screams reaction test.

[Alisae]

Still SRing you because I don't think you're playing your town game atm