ThinkBig's Mini Normal Review

[mhsmith0]

Public Knowledge that it's 10v3

Town
Cop
Tracker
JOAT (BP [has to activate]/JK/Vig)
7 VT

Scum
Goon
Goon
Roleblocker

This setup would be EXTREMELY dependent on cop v roleblocker play.

Similar setups:
1407 scum win
2-shot jk, tracker, watcher vs rb/goon/goon

1481 town win
jk, tracker, even vig vs rb/goon/encryptor

1596 scum win
cop, miller, doctor vs rb/goon/goon

1653 scum win
cop, doctor, 1-shot vig vs rb/goon/goon

1662 town win
vig, tracker, doctor vs rb/goon/goon

1772 town win
doc, rb, macho tracker vs rb/goon/goon

1794 town win
doc, 2-shot vig, cop vs rb/goon/encryptor

1850 town win
cop, doc, vig vs rb/goon/encryptor

[mhsmith0]

So for town you have one main role (cop), one ok role (tracker) and another gated role (JOAT, 3 decent shots of power), up against that you have a roleblocker and daychat. No useful way to protect the cop (JK is one-shot and blocks him anyway), which means that scum have a path to victory even if the rb drops out early.

Relatively less town power than some of the comparables due to lack of doc/x coordination, but town still has substantial power, even if it is super concentrated in the cop role.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking it's about balanced. Other reviewers' thoughts?

[mhsmith0]

yes. similarly, the rb dying early shifts it heavily the other way.

[mhsmith0]

Oh yeah I'd missed the blocked notification. PLayers shouldn't be given notification they were blocked, they should just get "no result" if they're investigation and no info on that front at all if they used any other power (i.e. a vig being blocked doesn't know if he hit BP or someone doc'd jailed, VT being blocked doiesn't ever find out they were blocked, etc)

[mhsmith0]

generally yes

[mhsmith0]

generally it's a lost shot in mini normals

[mhsmith0]

oh, on that topic, the 1 shot vig for the JoaT is a bit awkward given town isn't exactly strong, that part of the role is a bit of a mixed blessing.

That one shot is potentially negative value, and part of why I think the balance is reasonable. Cop is the single strongest town power role, and the other two town PRs are decent. It's just going to swing a lot on cop v roleblocker in all likelihood, with the other two town PRs at least potentially having some use.

[mhsmith0]

reviewer #3 still needs to check in, and I'm not sure about myko.

I also need to go through the OP and role PMs in more detail, but I want to make sure that we're good on setup first.

[mhsmith0]

No. You can even have three goons vs 4-5 town PRs, though firnthta to work town pr would mainly have to be a bunch of garbage roles like bodyguard ic etc.

[mhsmith0]

You can see
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549
For a good sample of what kind of setups are common.
1827
Bg Neapolitan 1-shot vig 1-shot dayvig is a decent example of an all goon setup.

Given that you have day talk (basically better than encryptor), 1823
Doc tracker vig 1-shot bp
Vs goon encryptor 1-shot strongman
Is close to an all goon setup with day talk

[mhsmith0]

So maybe make it a 2-shot roleblocker?

that helps but won't be enough imo.

You think so? Gated Roleblocker (I'd probably do odd night instead of x-shot fwiw) vs cop and two decent power roles seems pretty balanced in my book.

[mhsmith0]

@TB: Before going too far into a materially different setup, what kind of overall setup are you interested in running? It's fine to have either relatively fewer or relatively more PRs; ideally we get something that is structurally about what you have in mind, and then organize and balance around that.

For instance, if you were pretty happy with cop/joat/tracker vs rb, my personal gut is that we shouldn't need to move far off of that (for instance, we could do even night roleblocker for scum if everyone wants to make sure that night 1 is very likely to get a cop investigation off). OTOH, if the rb was only there for balance consideration in the first place (or if you thought that you had to have a scum PR), then we can talk about alternative setups like what balances an all-goon setup. But before we go too much into that, I wnat to make sure we've hit an overall format that you're comfortable with.

[mhsmith0]

I'm comfortable with setup. Can you repost your opening post (if any changes are made) and role PMs?

[mhsmith0]

Would change:

1) Ascetic:
In addition, you are an ascetic. All actions targeting you, aside from kills, will fail.

2) Rules
"Private topics (such as the mafia meeting) will only be open at night." I'm ok with you keeping it if you prefer, but I think it's pretty standard to not comment on this (since you're pretty clearly implying no encryptor by explicitly saying scum topic closes during the day).


Otherwise I'm good.

PS Cop can't be blocked because he's ascetic, so i think he'd only get guilty or innocent.

[mhsmith0]

Scum team with day chat is fine I think, will let myko weigh in on whether it's best to have encryptor or full day chat balance wise.

Roleblocker
Welcome to mini normal XXX (player name) You are a Roleblocker.

Win Conditions: You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Abilities: Once per night you may target a player, thus causing any attempted actions will fail for the current night phase.

Ascetic Cop:
Welcome to mini normal XXX (player name). You are an Ascetic Cop

Win Conditions: You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Abilities: Each night you may target a player to be inspected, thus discovering their alignment. You will receive a Private Message from the moderator containing either [Guilty] (mafia aligned) or [Innocent] (town aligned). In addition, you are an ascetic. All actions targeting you, aside from kills, will fail.

[mhsmith0]

Yep!

Though myko/fire will need to weigh in on day chat since that is a balance adjustment (scum benefit from day chat compared to no day chat)

[mhsmith0]

Since day talk is approve, just change OP language to

Communication. The game thread will be locked during the night phase. Private topics (such as the mafia meeting) will be open at all times.

[mhsmith0]

Question: Are we allowing the mafia rolecop to cop and kill at the same night? Just wanted to confirm before the game started

Scum may use any abilities they have along with their factional abilities on the same night.

Per your OP announcement, I'd say yes, unless something changed that I don't remember.