OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #2000 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:01 pm

Post by Realeo »

Yeah. We can agree to disageee. I can settle for that for early day.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?
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Post Post #2001 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:02 pm

Post by Realeo »

But excuses me as I suddenly become stubborn during deadline lynch :]
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #2002 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:18 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 1965, Regfan wrote:@Desperado - I'd like you to sell me on ThingBig being mafia in the best way you can. The logic you presented yesterday still doesn't do anywhere near enough for me alone and I actually find your comments re; your stance on Kop very disingenuous today, you're massively over-exaggerating it.
No I'm not. I tried to explain to you more than once why Kop's actions were consistent (and that even if you didn't buy that, that inconsistency didn't necessarily make him scum). You didn't agree with me, and that's fine, but don't sugarcoat what happened.

At this point I don't care if you think my case wasn't good. Nothing has changed, ThinkBig hasn't done ANYTHING except sheep you once you took him off the table. He's just fucking scum, dude.
;)
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Post Post #2003 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:37 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 1980, Dunnstral wrote:And desperado is tunneling someone I believe to be town and also won't reconsider his reads and won't give reads on the rest of living players - also there's just something off in general about him... I think he could rather easily be scum (as in, that's an easy read for me to make)
This isn't true. I've given reads on every single player alive.
;)
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Post Post #2004 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:37 pm

Post by Desperado »

I've just been consistently ignored since about the time regfan replaced in.
;)
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Post Post #2005 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:39 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 1984, Regfan wrote:@Dunnstral - The point about Supers read on Dave is a solid one and I'd like for him to explain his read there too. I think Desperados tunnel on ThingBig makes some sense as both alignments; As town wanting to go back to his original scum read upon a town flip or as scum wanting to find an easy avenue to push that doesn't create new enemies. It's his attitude while doing such and his comments (and lack thereof) about other players while doing it which I find highly concerning so I agree with you there.
Seriously Reg, I know you're reading my posts so why are you just making this shit up??? I have made substantial comments on every slot. I have good reasons for town and scum reading everyone alive. I told you guys Kop was real yesterday, and then the other claimed PR got shot. Literally nothing has changed from the middle of D2.
;)
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Post Post #2006 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2002, Desperado wrote:No I'm not. I tried to explain to you more than once why Kop's actions were consistent (and that even if you didn't buy that, that inconsistency didn't necessarily make him scum). You didn't agree with me, and that's fine, but don't sugarcoat what happened.
Here's your progression yesterday; When I mentioned that TB was off the table yesterday you were the first person to vote Kop (Even before I'd commented on Kop) inside and effectively explained it to be that you had reasons to town read everyone else inside . You switch back to ThingBig inside without actually making any comment on Kops roleblocker claim. And then switch to SuperHans in later saying to him "You feel confident lynching a claimed roleblocker?" in . Inside you question some of the reasoning put forward behind Kops claim = scum but that's the extent of it. Your first actual stated town read (And only) on Kop is inside when he's at L-1 with deadline approaching and the consensus unlikely to change but has nothing attached to it and comes at a time where it makes sense for scum to grab town cred upon the flip, once pushed for actual reasoning you elaboate on it in but mention nothing about Kops actual play; same goes for . So you disagreed with some of the reasoning behind his claim making him scum and you mentioned a town read on him once, that's all you did. Throughout this day phase you've attempted to exaggerate your town read on Kop which has a lot of scum motivation behind it.
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Post Post #2007 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:40 pm

Post by nydushermain »

In post 2005, Desperado wrote:
In post 1984, Regfan wrote:@Dunnstral - The point about Supers read on Dave is a solid one and I'd like for him to explain his read there too. I think Desperados tunnel on ThingBig makes some sense as both alignments; As town wanting to go back to his original scum read upon a town flip or as scum wanting to find an easy avenue to push that doesn't create new enemies. It's his attitude while doing such and his comments (and lack thereof) about other players while doing it which I find highly concerning so I agree with you there.
Seriously Reg, I know you're reading my posts so why are you just making this shit up??? I have made substantial comments on every slot. I have good reasons for town and scum reading everyone alive. I told you guys Kop was real yesterday, and then the other claimed PR got shot. Literally nothing has changed from the middle of D2.
Can you link the post where you say kop is real? That seems odd. I want context.
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Post Post #2008 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:43 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 783, Desperado wrote:
In post 766, ThinkBig wrote:Interesting night kill.
In post 714, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:but yeah im onto something i think so
if im not here to remind yall about kop in the morning please revisit his last few posts of the day
, completely unacceptable imo. If Kop/AH are both town I think
Gamma/Dave/Alisae
This is damming. Why would ssbm be targeted by the mafia over the innocent child?

HOS on Kop and Gamma. I really don't like how AH derailed gamma's wagon. I'm willing to vote for either kop or gamma.
Ya, Think is scum framing Kop with the SSBM kill.
In post 791, Desperado wrote:
In post 785, Gamma Emerald wrote:Kop only?
FoS Desperado
...did you read what he said?

He thinks you're scum because AH derailed your wagon. He thinks Kop is scum because SSBM is dead.

So yes, just Kop.
In post 1212, Desperado wrote:
Unvote
Vote: Kop
In post 1226, Desperado wrote:
In post 1223, Regfan wrote:
In post 1222, Desperado wrote:@ Reg: I think it was the former and I think Hans has been snowing me all day
Can you run me through your vote placement on Kop over Hans in that case? I mean I certainly don't mind it, I just want to hear your thought process behind it since it's not walked through inside your ISO. Also did you ever take a quick look at TB's meta (If so before or after I replaced in)? Would also like your read on Dunn & Alisea so we can discuss the similarities/differences between our reads there when I'm done reading them.
I'm not ready to flip my interpretation of the game state completely and I don't want to vote dave or Ali. I think they're town, I think scum really thought I was the traitor, and that's why a wagon never materialized on me despite all of the traitor talk d1.

I didn't look at his meta and haven't since you replaced in, no. I'm taking your word for it.

For Ali, see above. For Dunn, I can't really point to anything specific, I just feel town emanating from his posts and have all game.
In post 1234, Desperado wrote:Why did I select Kop over any else? Let's see...

Gamma - PR claim
Ali - Traitor push
Dave - Ditto
Dunn - Town
Real - Town
ThinkBig - Not happening today

That leaves Kop and Superhans. Don't really think I need to explain why I would make that choice.
In post 1376, Desperado wrote:
In post 1373, Superhans wrote:Yeh, but I don't think the scum case on ThinkBig is bollocks, just I feel more confident lynching Kop today. Your latest scumpush on TB is not compelling.
You still feel confident lynching a claimed roleblocker?
In post 1399, Desperado wrote:
In post 1396, ThinkBig wrote:@regfan. Good points. I looked through his ISO and not once did he mention SRing ssbm. He did, however, vote for and SR Gamma. Why would he RB ssbm over Gamma?
In post 212, Kop wrote:
In post 210, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
In post 200, Dunnstral wrote:I don't want to lynch Realeo
I want to lynch realeo. He's used doctor and cop emojis already, I think he's trying to setup fakeclaim crumbs and needs rope
In post 211, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:also if maf didn't recruit the traitor he could be making obvious PR crumbs to try to get his team to shoot him and recruit him if he's the traitor

These are baseless accusations. They hold no truth or any argument that can hold any water, using them emojis doesn't exactly have a warrant to lynch him, based on that.

As for your second point, that's wrong. If I'm recalling correctly, if they shoot the traitor, he dies. I once had the traitor role and mafia shot me, and I died. I didn't join them.

I'd choose to push a lynch between you, or Superhans right now.
In post 380, Kop wrote:
In post 352, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:AH what's your opinion on Gamma's vote on Desperado, and Desperado's sudden swap from voting Gamma to you?

Desperado, you switched from voting Gamma to voting the player defending Gamma pretty abruptly, can you further explain both of those votes because right now it looks like you're getting onto easy wagons

VOTE: Desperado
In post 364, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:@Desperado - Yeah, looked like really bad reasoning to me which is why I'm asking him questions. Didn't see anything specific about Thinkbig that would have made AH pick him off the Gamma wagon which makes me think his motivation there was to derail the Gamma wagon, rather than to find scum on it. I guess your vote makes sense, and I was going to vote AH when I read his TB case and looked into the votes on Gamma, but then I saw you vote AH and that steadies my hand a bit because your vote was naked and had just swapped from the leading (but losing traction) Gamma wagon onto the rapidly growing AH wagon. Anyways, as I write this post I realize there's better reason to vote for him being scummy than there is to not vote him because his wagon is moving fast.

VOTE: Antihuman
Why does Desperados vote steady your hand because it was naked?

You mentioned before about getting onto easy wagons, haven't you done the same?
In post 1544, Desperado wrote:I still think Kop is real but any cache I had in this game evaporated a while ago so w/e
In post 1557, Desperado wrote:Not taking at least one of daytalk, recruitment, or the JOAT is just bizarre to me. You can do without the BP and the Role Cop if you aren't taking a lot of power, and I can understand either doing both recruitment and daytalk or neither, but the JOAT deals with every power role the town can potentially get and is extremely powerful.

I think Kop's claim makes sense, I understand why he chose SSBM over Gamma, and I also don't think claiming roleblocked on a living player is nearly as dangerous as you've been suggesting, especially with Gamma having already outed; that leaves only one role left (tracker) that could counterclaim Kop's roleblock. If anything, I think Kop as scum would understand that claiming a block on the dead is going to look suspicious and, already at L-1, it would be optimal to take the 1/7 chance that he claims to have blocked a tracker with a result by accident.
In post 1568, Desperado wrote:
In post 1564, Regfan wrote:@Desp - I personally consider the JOAT very weak in this setup, it's only 2 1-shot abilities and using them optimally is difficult to do. In regards to Kop claiming to roleblock SSBM I think at the moment it's less fear of what other claims there might have been (Because if he's scum he knows there's no other) but the fact that he genuinely
couldn't
claim a roleblock on a living player; he would have to explain why he never voted or stated a scum read on the player coming into D2 where he voted Gamma.
AH flipped traitor and everything changed.

I had them as town but I got paranoid over night so I wanted to make sure.

Etc. etc. etc.

Do you often find it difficult to explain night actions as scum?
In post 1646, Desperado wrote:And if Kop is real as I suspect then nothing is confirmed, which is why I would have rathered lynching outside of the claims.
;)
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Post Post #2009 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:43 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2005, Desperado wrote:Seriously Reg, I know you're reading my posts so why are you just making this shit up???
I have made substantial comments on every slot. I have good reasons for town and scum reading everyone alive.
I told you guys Kop was real yesterday, and then the other claimed PR got shot. Literally nothing has changed from the middle of D2.
I don't see this reading your posts. I flat out don't.

You have made no mention of Nydus today and minimal mention of him yesterday.
You have made no real mention of Realeo today at all.
You have very little thoughts on Dunn out in the thread at the moment.
You have limited thoughts on Dave.

The only people I can agree you've elaborated somewhat into today is ThingBig & SuperHans.
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Post Post #2010 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by Desperado »

When I voted Kop, Hans was one of my strongest townreads. After Kop's claim and Hans did his about face on ThinkBig, that changed. I consistently defended Kop, said multiple times he was real, and that his actions were consistent.
;)
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Post Post #2011 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 2009, Regfan wrote:You have made no mention of Nydus today and minimal mention of him yesterday.
You have made no real mention of Realeo today at all.
You have very little thoughts on Dunn out in the thread at the moment.
You have limited thoughts on Dave.

The only people I can agree you've elaborated somewhat into today is ThingBig & SuperHans.
Nydus is Alisae and I am the originator of "Alisae wouldn't call me out and push me as traitor as scum."
Realeo has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dunn has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dave is town for the same reason Alisae is.

?????????????????????
;)
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Post Post #2012 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by Regfan »

The first two quotes you've listed are 100% meaningless given you voluntarily voted Kop -- you were the first to vote him. The third quote is your vote on him, the following two are you explaining your PoE. None of these mean anything. The next one isn't you town reading him, it's you not wanting to lynch a PR claim; there's a signficant difference between the two. #1544 I quoted as the only post where you actually show a town read on him and your last post is after the hammers already been dropped thus utterly meaningless. All up you didn't portray a town read on Kop in the thread anywhere near the strength you're claiming to have had.
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Post Post #2013 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:47 pm

Post by Desperado »

I voted him, he claimed, I continuously defended him until he was lynched.

^This is 100% fact.
;)
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Post Post #2014 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:48 pm

Post by Desperado »

I'd already resigned myself to his lynch in 1544 and I STILL made another post defending him.
;)
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Post Post #2015 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:49 pm

Post by Desperado »

Even though, as scum, I would have chosen one power
specifically for that situation
.
;)
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Post Post #2016 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:50 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2011, Desperado wrote: Nydus is Alisae and I am the originator of "Alisae wouldn't call me out and push me as traitor as scum."
Realeo has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dunn has been town the entire game. I haven't wavered on this.
Dave is town for the same reason Alisae is.

?????????????????????
This is my fucking point though. There's been no progression from you on any of these slots throughout the entire game despite some of them being for fairly weak reasoning. I can understand a tunnel on TB, I've even acknowledged several times that I think that push from you isn't particularly alignment indicative and I think I've been fair in stating that. I do think the fact there's no actual attempt from you to solve the game in regards to the players listed outside of their D1 play is a big scum tell. There's been a lot more content and information presented since then, there's lots of posts or comments from them that would or could strengthen or make you start to doubt your reads on them; none of these have been shared in the thread, none.
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Post Post #2017 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Post by Regfan »

In post 2013, Desperado wrote:I voted him, he claimed,
I continuously defended him until he was lynched.


^This is 100% fact.
The bolded is a big exaggeration; you had 4-5 posts where you disagreed with some of the reasoning presented for him being scum via his role claim and had a singular post where you called him town, that's the extent of your "defending him". And what you would/wouldn't have done as scum re; picks this setup is irrelevant given you replaced in thus would have had no decision on the matter. The problem I have here is that your play today looks like an attempt to grab town-cred from the Kop flip by defending him when the majority of the time you were defending him via him being a PR/ not buying the PRscumcase rather than actually town reading him.
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Post Post #2018 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:57 pm

Post by Desperado »

Then lynch me! I've been 100% transparent with my reads all game. I have consistently pushed my viewpoint and tried to get my scum reads lynched. I don't care if you don't like it.
;)
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Post Post #2019 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:59 pm

Post by Desperado »

In post 2017, Regfan wrote:The bolded is a big exaggeration; you had 4-5 posts where you disagreed with some of the reasoning presented for him being scum via his role claim and had a singular post where you called him town, that's the extent of your "defending him". And what you would/wouldn't have done as scum re; picks this setup is irrelevant given you replaced in thus would have had no decision on the matter. The problem I have here is that your play today looks like an attempt to grab town-cred from the Kop flip by defending him when the majority of the time you were defending him via him being a PR/ not buying the PRscumcase rather than actually town reading him.
You'll never see it that way but that was a serious townslip on my part.
;)
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Post Post #2020 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Post by nydushermain »

In post 2017, Regfan wrote:
In post 2013, Desperado wrote:I voted him, he claimed,
I continuously defended him until he was lynched.


^This is 100% fact.
The bolded is a big exaggeration; you had 4-5 posts where you disagreed with some of the reasoning presented for him being scum via his role claim and had a singular post where you called him town, that's the extent of your "defending him". And what you would/wouldn't have done as scum re; picks this setup is irrelevant given you replaced in thus would have had no decision on the matter. The problem I have here is that your play today looks like an attempt to grab town-cred from the Kop flip by defending him when the majority of the time you were defending him via him being a PR/ not buying the PRscumcase rather than actually town reading him.
I think that you should just take a step back and ignore desperado for a day. You might be right on him being scum but I can see you slowly spiraling into confirmation bias as a result of this fight.
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Post Post #2021 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:00 pm

Post by nydushermain »

Err, to the above, day meaning a real life day, not an in game day.
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Post Post #2022 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:01 pm

Post by Regfan »

@Desperado - I'd rather you just actually elaborate on your reads on the players using information throughout the entire game, hard clearing two slots for having thought you were a traitor and deciding that it's not worth commenting on anything else of theirs makes little sense to me. Give me a multitude of reasons why you've had Dunnstral as town throughout the entire game? Just give me something more to work, that's what I want from you.

And yeah; I'm planning on stepping back for a day; just want to make sure there'll be content in the right places when I get back.
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Post Post #2023 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:11 pm

Post by Desperado »

Reg, what you see is what you get.

Also, I missed this earlier, but when you say things like "I've seen scum post things like this before, it reads like unnatural confidence" it's almost like we've never even played before.
;)
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Post Post #2024 (ISO) » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:22 pm

Post by Realeo »

In post 2022, Regfan wrote:Give me a multitude of reasons why you've had Dunnstral as town throughout the entire game?
I endorse this product, because I can use one as well.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

I'm mabye a serious player, but I'm capable of joke. Ok?
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