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PranaDevil
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Post Post #725  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:19 pm

To me it legitimately reads like Alisae actively knows karnos will flip town, now I'll give people benefit of the doubt at times, but I'll also expect them to back up what they are saying. You failed to let hom do that and gave him a comfortable "out" if any pressure came from it, how is that anything but scummy?

Also, BBTs post can only be seen as scummy if you are doing to that post, that which you claimed I did to Alisaes.... soo....

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Post Post #726  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:20 pm

In post 725, PranaDevil wrote:To me it legitimately reads like Alisae actively knows karnos will flip town


Again, I disagree with this interpretation. Can you please explain why you think that he actively knows Karnos is town?
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Post Post #727  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:29 pm

It's the wording of the post to me. The line "scum will just NK him" screams that they know scum will kill him. Not "they might", no "what if he's scum?" In there at all, just "scum will kill him". Alisae can say he believes the claim, but short of actually being scum, Alisae wouldn't know someone's alignment, meaning there should always be doubt. So what if karnos is scum? Scum would hardly NK him then would they?

But, as that was all ignored, it, to me, reads that Alisae somehow knows karnos would flip town, as otherwise there would still be uncertainty.

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Post Post #728  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:29 pm

Prana, you're saying it's scummy for me to say your argument is invalid. Get the fuck over it.
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Post Post #729  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:30 pm

Prana do you think I slipped that Karnos was town?
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Post Post #730  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:31 pm

@Alisae: Have you ever played scum before? If so, can you please show me a scum game?

@Prana: No way a scum team would allow a claimed vengeful townie to make it into MyLo/LyLo. Alisae's argument is 100% valid. You're attempting to throw shades at him and I'm not liking it.
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Post Post #731  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:32 pm

In post 719, PranaDevil wrote:I don't trust the role claim by itself


Oh so you think Karnos is scum but Alisae is scum who you think told us Karnos was town in a non-perspective slip. They're both scum but Karnos is town because Alisae is scum.

Wtf.
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Post Post #732  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:34 pm

VOTE: PranaDevil

I really don't like the shades that he is attempting to throw on Alisae. His blatant misrepresentation of what Alisae was saying in order to read him as scum. Don't like that one bit.

P-edit: Excellent point, Gin.
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Post Post #733  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:56 pm

Can we please NOT do Pre-Flip, Thanks.
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Post Post #734  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:59 pm

In post 733, LicketyQuickety wrote:Can we please NOT do Pre-Flip, Thanks.

Associative are meant for flips, thank you
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Post Post #735  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:02 pm

Twentieth Votecount:
karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, PranaDevil)
All Alone - 2 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety)
BlueBloodedToffee - 2 (TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Alisae)
ThinkBig - 1 (shannon)
LicketyQuickety - 1 (All Alone)
XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)
PranaDevil - 1 (ThinkBig)

Not Voting - 1 (Pepchoninga)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

karnos is at L-3.

Day 1's deadline is Friday, February 10th, @ 2:30 PM PST--(expired on 2017-02-10 14:30:00).

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:
  • mastina, the moderator, is V/LA over weekends.
  • Lexa is V/LA through Tuesday, January 24th.

Extras
Spoiler: Changes from Last Votecount
(=0)karnos - 4 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, PranaDevil)
(=0)All Alone - 2 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety)
(=0)BlueBloodedToffee - 2 (TheRealGin-N-Tonic, Alisae)
(=0)ThinkBig - 1 (shannon)
(=0)LicketyQuickety - 1 (All Alone)
(=0)XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)
(+1)PranaDevil - 1 (ThinkBig)

(-1)Not Voting - 1 (Pepchoninga, ThinkBig)
Last votecount was .
Spoiler: Player Vote History Day One
Spoiler: Players Who Have BEEN Voted D1
  1. karnos: 7 - , , , , , ,
  2. Alisae: 6 - , , , , ,
  3. LicketyQuickety: 6 - , , , , ,
  4. All Alone: 5 - , , , ,
  5. nydushermain/TheRealGin-N-Tonic: 3 - , ,
  6. XnadrojX: 3 - , ,
  7. shannon: 2 - ,
  8. ThinkBig: 2 - ,
  9. BlueBloodedToffee: 2 - ,
  10. PranaDevil: 2 - ,
  11. Garmr: 1 -
  12. Pepchoninga: 1 -
Spoiler: Voting Chronology Day 1
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 02:28p, Alisae Voted nydushermain in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 02:32p, Garmr Voted Alisae in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 02:42p, All Alone Voted nydushermain in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 02:52p, KTthecreeper Voted Garmr in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 02:57p, karnos Voted shannon in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 03:19p, LicketyQuickety Voted Alisae in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 03:31p, PranaDevil voted Alisae in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 04:43p, XnadrojX Voted Alisae in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 05:57p, shannon Voted XnadrojX in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 07:13p, Lexa Voted All Alone in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 07:28p, karnos Voted nydushermain in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 07:48p, LicketyQuickety Voted shannon in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 09:08p, karnos Voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 09:09p, Alisae Voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 09:19p, Garmr Voted karnos in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 10:17p, nydushermain Voted Alisae in post .
On Fri, Jan 01/20/17 @ 10:23p, XnadrojX Voted karnos in post .
On Sat, Jan 01/21/17 @ 09:38a, karnos Unvoted LicketyQuickety, and Voted XnadrojX in post .
On Sat, Jan 01/21/17 @ 01:41p, Alisae Voted XnadrojX in post .
On Sat, Jan 01/21/17 @ 05:51p, shannon Voted Alisae in post .
On Sat, Jan 01/21/17 @ 10:54p, TheRealGin-N-Tonic Voted karnos in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 12:39a, BlueBloodedToffee Voted karnos in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 04:10p, PranaDevil voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 04:30p, TheRealGin-N-Tonic Voted Pepchoninga in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 04:37p, All Alone Unvoted(TheRealGin-N-Tonic) in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 04:38p, TheRealGin-N-Tonic Voted karnos in post .
On Sun, Jan 01/22/17 @ 04:39p, Alisae Voted All Alone in post .
On Mon, Jan 01/23/17 @ 01:21a, shannon Voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Mon, Jan 01/23/17 @ 07:37a, All Alone Voted PranaDevil in post .
On Mon, Jan 01/23/17 @ 07:41a, LicketyQuickety Voted All Alone in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 03:16p, ThinkBig Voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 03:48p, All Alone Voted LicketyQuickety in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 05:00p, shannon Voted ThinkBig in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 05:18p, PranaDevil voted All Alone in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 06:06p, ThinkBig Unvoted(LicketyQuickety) in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 06:07p, Alisae Voted ThinkBig in post .
On Tue, Jan 01/24/17 @ 07:01p, ThinkBig Voted All Alone in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 09:16a, PranaDevil voted karnos in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 10:16a, ThinkBig Voted karnos in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 12:37p, TheRealGin-N-Tonic Unvoted(karnos), and Voted BlueBloodedToffee in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 12:50p, Alisae Voted BlueBloodedToffee in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 12:55p, ThinkBig Unvoted(karnos) in post .
On Wed, Jan 01/25/17 @ 04:34p, ThinkBig Voted PranaDevil in post .
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Post Post #736  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:04 pm

How is it misrepresentation? It's only read that way because of someone who isn't Alisae claiming it.

Also, I'm not saying for certain one way or another, as I'm trying to work out things myself. Karnos has bern a high scum read for me all day, and suddenly Alisae thinks he's town and a legit claim out of nowhere saves him.

Incidentally, why is he town again Alisae? The claim doesn't make him town at all.

Which again leads to me other issue... if he is scum, why would scum NK him? Are we suggesting we suddenly keep karnos alive to lylo on the basis of a single vengeful claim or something? As that's how we lose games people. I'm not getting why karnos is suddenly town, why BBT is suddenly scummy for that one post, nor am I even understanding my own reads as now, in my head, I have karnos as a super scummy read, and Alisae as a scum read on the basis he knows karnos is town... which negates my prior read of karnos entirely, and tgat legitimately confuses the fuck outta me, and 1am is not the time to be trying to work that one out.

So in all honesty, my intent for tomorrow is check over karnos and Alisae with a fine tooth comb and see if I can make sense of what the smeg happened.

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Post Post #737  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:13 pm

His play leading up to the claim is fine. If anything he was just trying to get SR'd so he can do his thing.
You're suggested that I slipped that Karnos is town. I didn't. I said scum would probably NK him because they probably don't want to risk him hitting scum if he were to get lynched.
You're pushing a slip that isn't a slip. That's a scumtell for me.
VOTE: PranaDevil
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Post Post #738  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:17 pm

In post 734, TheRealGin-N-Tonic wrote:
In post 733, LicketyQuickety wrote:Can we please NOT do Pre-Flip, Thanks.

Associative are meant for flips, thank you


Associations are meant to figure out who is Scum after you have at least one Scum flip.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8

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Not modding any games currently.

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Post Post #739  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:29 pm

In post 736, PranaDevil wrote:Which again leads to me other issue... if he is scum, why would scum NK him? Are we suggesting we suddenly keep karnos alive to lylo on the basis of a single vengeful claim or something?


WTF? This makes no sense and I have no clue where you are getting this from. We are saying if karnos is town and is vengeful, then the scum team will probably kill him before MyLo/LyLo.

For the record, I don't believe his claim and I'm not town reading him, but I'm definitely not town reading you either.

More devil votes please!
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Post Post #740  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:41 pm

These Prana votes are superrrrrr bad.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.

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Post Post #741  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:47 pm

You want votes for yourself?
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I am modding again read here for more information!
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Post Post #742  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:51 pm

In post 740, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:These Prana votes are superrrrrr bad.


Please explain
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Post Post #743  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:53 pm

In post 725, PranaDevil wrote:To me it legitimately reads like Alisae actively knows karnos will flip town, now I'll give people benefit of the doubt at times, but I'll also expect them to back up what they are saying. You failed to let hom do that and gave him a comfortable "out" if any pressure came from it, how is that anything but scummy?

Also, BBTs post can only be seen as scummy if you are doing to that post, that which you claimed I did to Alisaes.... soo....


This is totally in line with Alisae's playstyle IMO.
"...(I also think that meta-diving LQ proves that he's a "non-traditional" player (whatever that means) more than his words do)." ~Nachomamma8

Wiki analyzed practically from scratch for consistency and accuracy 05/19/2018
Not modding any games currently.

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Post Post #744  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:45 pm

Just catching up with the last few pages.

In post 681, karnos wrote:I thought I did, but if you want me to spell it out I'm a vengeful townie.


I'm glad you spelled it out because I've not played with someone vengeful before and had to look it up.

In post 693, LicketyQuickety wrote:I also think at the very least we shouldn't hammer until Lexa makes their catchup post. I don't like the way Lexa comes in at L-1 and says they will make a catch up post in the next day or so. Makes it look like they don't want to contribute much.


I agree with this.

In post 697, PranaDevil wrote:
In post 690, Alisae wrote:
In post 686, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.

He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.
You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.
Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.


Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.

Can anyone explain the sudden BBT voting to me please?


Why would Karnos kill the hammerer, though? According to the wiki unless he's a 'Super Saint' he has a choice about who to kill. I think (hope?) he could tell the difference between town hammering the wagon and his scum reads hammering the wagon.

Claiming now is suboptimal because we now have to protect him until the end of the game if we want to get good use from his power. But I can see why he did it, given he was at L-1. Are we SURE that Alisae is not trying to draw out a doc or protective role claim here? Because that's the obvious way for scum not to night kill him.


In post 713, Alisae wrote:Actually.
What we can do is we could leash who Karnos kills.
Suggest like 3 names for him to kill.
And then he kills whoever out of that pool.
Good idea anyone if the claim is real?


Yeah it's an OK idea, except how do we all agree on three people? And why three? Let's go ahead and find the scummiest person and give Karnos that name. (Are you trying to draw role claims from three more people who wouldn't want to be NKed?)


In post 727, PranaDevil wrote:It's the wording of the post to me. The line "scum will just NK him" screams that they know scum will kill him. Not "they might", no "what if he's scum?" In there at all, just "scum will kill him". Alisae can say he believes the claim, but short of actually being scum, Alisae wouldn't know someone's alignment, meaning there should always be doubt. So what if karnos is scum? Scum would hardly NK him then would they?

But, as that was all ignored, it, to me, reads that Alisae somehow knows karnos would flip town, as otherwise there would still be uncertainty.


Yes

In post 737, Alisae wrote:His play leading up to the claim is fine. If anything he was just trying to get SR'd so he can do his thing.
You're suggested that I slipped that Karnos is town. I didn't. I said scum would probably NK him because they probably don't want to risk him hitting scum if he were to get lynched.
You're pushing a slip that isn't a slip. That's a scumtell for me.
VOTE: PranaDevil


I am calling bullshit on this. Let's say Karnos is a total newbie who, like me, has to check the wiki to see what his role does. Here's the wiki recommendation:

"Claiming Vengeful Townie is not advised (unless your actual role is Vengeful and Mafia-aligned). The effect of giving its faction a bonus kill is useless unless you yourself are worth lynching - otherwise it's obviously more profitable to lynch the player you would Vengefully kill while leaving you alive. Thus, Vengeful claims under duress are seen as grounds for a policy lynch.
If you are still unclaimed at three-player LyLo, consider deliberately getting lynched and using your vengekill on the hapless quickhammering scum
"

TL;DR: Don't look scummy, wait until LYLO to use your power if you can.

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Post Post #745  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:47 pm

That' s a VOTE: Alisae

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Post Post #746  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:22 pm

In post 744, shannon wrote:Just catching up with the last few pages.

In post 681, karnos wrote:I thought I did, but if you want me to spell it out I'm a vengeful townie.


I'm glad you spelled it out because I've not played with someone vengeful before and had to look it up.

In post 693, LicketyQuickety wrote:I also think at the very least we shouldn't hammer until Lexa makes their catchup post. I don't like the way Lexa comes in at L-1 and says they will make a catch up post in the next day or so. Makes it look like they don't want to contribute much.


I agree with this.

In post 697, PranaDevil wrote:
In post 690, Alisae wrote:
In post 686, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Nah, Karnos is a great lynch.

He is trying to scare away a potential hammer by saying he might shoot them.
You're not wrong. He is a great lynch.
Is he trying to scare away a potential hammer? Nah. I think we have more time to spend and we could be looking elsewhere, that's all.
Plus if we do decide to let him live, scum will just NK him.


Hold up, that last line I really, really do not like. If we let him live scum will NK him sounds like you know he's town and scum need him out of the way.

Can anyone explain the sudden BBT voting to me please?


Why would Karnos kill the hammerer, though? According to the wiki unless he's a 'Super Saint' he has a choice about who to kill. I think (hope?) he could tell the difference between town hammering the wagon and his scum reads hammering the wagon.

Claiming now is suboptimal because we now have to protect him until the end of the game if we want to get good use from his power. But I can see why he did it, given he was at L-1. Are we SURE that Alisae is not trying to draw out a doc or protective role claim here? Because that's the obvious way for scum not to night kill him.


In post 713, Alisae wrote:Actually.
What we can do is we could leash who Karnos kills.
Suggest like 3 names for him to kill.
And then he kills whoever out of that pool.
Good idea anyone if the claim is real?


Yeah it's an OK idea, except how do we all agree on three people? And why three? Let's go ahead and find the scummiest person and give Karnos that name. (Are you trying to draw role claims from three more people who wouldn't want to be NKed?)


In post 727, PranaDevil wrote:It's the wording of the post to me. The line "scum will just NK him" screams that they know scum will kill him. Not "they might", no "what if he's scum?" In there at all, just "scum will kill him". Alisae can say he believes the claim, but short of actually being scum, Alisae wouldn't know someone's alignment, meaning there should always be doubt. So what if karnos is scum? Scum would hardly NK him then would they?

But, as that was all ignored, it, to me, reads that Alisae somehow knows karnos would flip town, as otherwise there would still be uncertainty.


Yes

In post 737, Alisae wrote:His play leading up to the claim is fine. If anything he was just trying to get SR'd so he can do his thing.
You're suggested that I slipped that Karnos is town. I didn't. I said scum would probably NK him because they probably don't want to risk him hitting scum if he were to get lynched.
You're pushing a slip that isn't a slip. That's a scumtell for me.
VOTE: PranaDevil


I am calling bullshit on this. Let's say Karnos is a total newbie who, like me, has to check the wiki to see what his role does. Here's the wiki recommendation:

"Claiming Vengeful Townie is not advised (unless your actual role is Vengeful and Mafia-aligned). The effect of giving its faction a bonus kill is useless unless you yourself are worth lynching - otherwise it's obviously more profitable to lynch the player you would Vengefully kill while leaving you alive. Thus, Vengeful claims under duress are seen as grounds for a policy lynch.
If you are still unclaimed at three-player LyLo, consider deliberately getting lynched and using your vengekill on the hapless quickhammering scum
"

TL;DR: Don't look scummy, wait until LYLO to use your power if you can.


This post is shady AF!
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Post Post #747  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:32 pm

In post 744, shannon wrote:Yeah it's an OK idea, except how do we all agree on three people? And why three? Let's go ahead and find the scummiest person and give Karnos that name. (Are you trying to draw role claims from three more people who wouldn't want to be NKed?)
Who said we had to agree on 3? And 3 is good because it's not too big or too small. If it's too small then scum has too much influence over it. If it's too big then it doesn't get any reactions.
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Post Post #748  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:32 pm

In post 746, LicketyQuickety wrote:This post is shady AF!
Because?
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mastina
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Joined: October 08, 2016
Location: Between Snohomish and Monroe, WA
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Post Post #749  (ISO)  » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:51 pm

What would Trump say if Hilary had won?

"I want a-
Avatar by Aristophanes.

Sticks McGee: Infiltrating the Complex is coming to Mish Mash...as soon as I draw the hundreds of images necessary!
Ballroom Blitz has ended!

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