Open 665 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over! Town Victory!!!

[-Grey-]

Oh?

Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.

All in one fell swoop.

VOTE: Alisae

[Alisae]

Oh?

Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.

All in one fell swoop.

VOTE: Alisae

I find this funny becuase NO ONE BACKED OFF when you said you thought I was a mason.

[-Grey-]

Hence my 875.

[Alisae]

Grey not reading...
This is a new one...
I think this might be scum!Grey
VOTE: Grey

Here is why: Grey attempts to buddy the "mason", makes no attempt to figure out what he missed, sheeps the "mason", and then 180s the "mason"
Seriously, if Grey was town he would have actually payed attention to when I said I wasn't a mason.
I don't see any town motivation behind his actions.

[-Grey-]

[Grendel]

Mozamis

Spoiler:

When I first started reading I originally disliked the low content posting. A majority of their first some… twenty posts over the span of the first eight pages seemed pointless, and or scummy. All of which gave me a strong gut scum read that I believe stuck with me while I read the rest of the game.

@ Ali - why are you talking about the masons? I don't think it's a great idea.

not really loving the mason spec, it's not helpful.

These in particular from the early posts sounded like something scum would say to look town. Wagging ones finger at inappropriate anti-town behavior is an easy thing to do.

I'm convinced BBT v Hawk is TvS. Can't figure out who the scum is in this situation.
So I'ma just sheep this
VOTE: Hawk

This is scummy as fuck.
"Lets give the hawk wagon real momentum and pretend its just derp!".
No. Opportunistic.

VOTE ALISAE

One of the reasons that I pulled back a bit in my scum read was due to seeing Mozamis's thought processes over lap with mine. It paralleled my thoughts so hard I sort of had to do a double take.

VOTE: Moz

Hawk can be town now.

Where the fuck has this come from?
This really looks like deflection. "Hey, a lot of people seem to think Hawk is town now, so can i just blend in, and maybe vote Moz who alot of people have vague scum leans?"
Yeah I can see how your wagon got momentum.

I think that the change here, ironically enough, is really bad. Blue Blood goes from town read to scum, for 180ing on his Hawk read, and I guess voting Moz. What's worse is that Moz didn't actually commit any of this with a vote. Giving peace meal statements about how scummy BBT is when Moz opted to no vote into EoD is non-comitial.

Later during/near twilight Mozamis posting become very contentless again, despite feeling today that Alisae's posting was "worrisome" at that point. Its bad because that doesn't seem like something Moz sees in retrospect because he was already scum reading Alisae.

Antihuman

Spoiler:

A bit of a gut read that spawned due to having read most of his posts but still not really feeling anything beyond null on his slot. Antihuman seems to me like a strong analytical player that would be able to fake good read progression as scum.

An experienced logical player can usually fake the same level of critical thinking ability as scum, as town. Likewise, an illogical player will always be illogical despite their alignment. So to judge an experienced player solely by the logical arguments their producing is not smart.

I should also point out that Antihuman went through this game with little pressure getting up against him. I saw nothing that inclined me to believe that he was so Obtown as that he should be untouchable. I think that its more likely that Anthumani!scum went through the day checking all the required boxes to appear town, and Therefore flew under everyone’s radar.

Pre- edit

Wait, whats happening now?

[Alisae]

Grey 180'd on me becuase he didn't know that I actually wasn't a mason so I OMGUS'd him. Read 928

[Grendel]

UNVOTE:

This has been a vexing game.

I need time to think.

[Alisae]

I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.

This is me confirming I'm not a mason.

[Alisae]

Wtf is going on?

We're flipping Snowman

We're flipping Snowman

Okie doke

VOTE: Snowdude

This is Grey not reading and sheeping who he thinks is a mason.

[-Grey-]

I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.

This is me confirming I'm not a mason.

Looked like you bullshitting just like you did all day d1, to me.

[-Grey-]

I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.

A Mason could easily say this to fish for Scum to vote them because they know they'll never actually be lynched.

Fucking duh.

Quit assuming that I'm not reading simply because you don't know my thoughts.

[Grendel]

@Alisae

I'm okay with becoming a Lynch All Liars PL if people are still holding that page 1 reaction test against me.

I actaully thought you

were a mason

trying to wifom here.

You're saying that this was where you were trying to tell Grey that you weren't a mason?

It wouldn't surprise me if he skipped over it tbh. If he thought you were a mason then he was probably panicking to save you skin, and not paying much attention to what you were saying.

If he were scum Grey why would he bother defending you at all when he could just stand by and whach you get lynched?

Oh?

Well, that certainly explains the wagon. And it destroys every reason I was townreading you.

All in one fell swoop.

VOTE: Alisae

I'm inclined to think that Grey felt legitimate;ly duped once he saw that you weren't a mason and is back tracking away from you reflexively for it.

Like town feeling betrayed.

Pre edit

You guys need to make up. I think you both town.

[-Grey-]

You guys need to make up. I think you both town.

Seriously?

How can you VT read his d1?

[Grendel]

THis painful to watch because it reminds me of almost all my games with GammaEmerald. Where I inevitably think that, "Town!Gamma knows better then to do x, y, and z". Because for a long time I had unrealistic expectations for what Gamma could and couldn't perceive about me, and the game state. Because I thought I knew more about him then he knew about me, and this in assurance that wasn't actually _real_ made me stretch to find evidence that wasn't there!

THis looks like the same thing here! The two of you think that due to previous games you know what each other is thinking/doing, but the premise, assumptions, you both are making about each other are dictating other wise. As I can see many realistic scenarios were you are both town rn, but you both simply won't see eye to eye!

[-Grey-]

Um, my read isn't based off meta.

It's based off "that shit don't make sense coming from a VT"

[Grendel]

You guys need to make up. I think you both town.

Seriously?

How can you VT read his d1?

You mean his reaction teast, plus all the time he referenced masons?

I don't think its good play by an means, but I don't think that I understand how he as Scum!Aliase is more likely to do that then town. AS it does not represent good preservation. Right now I'm thinking, "Why would Aliase box himself in so prematurely?"

I don't think that he'd view outing a mason as worth it, nor do I think he'd assume that all would think he is too brazen to be scum.

Pre-edit

Um, my read isn't based off meta.

It's based off "that shit don't make sense coming from a VT"

I recognize that is what you're saying, but between the lines I'm seeing:

"that shit don't make sense coming from a VT!Alisae"

[tojam2]

VC 2.3

Alisae (L-1) - havingfitz, Hawk, Empking, Lil Uzi Vert, -Grey-

mozamis (L-4) - ConManMick, SnarkySnowman
havingfitz (L-5) - mozamis
-Grey- (L-5) - Alisae

(expired on 2017-02-07 15:56:00)

[-Grey-]

Ehhh, let's not leave that lying around.

UNVOTE:

[Grendel]

@Alisae, LUV, other ppl town reading Mozamis

Why are you town reading Moz?

Here is why: Grey attempts to buddy the "mason", makes no attempt to figure out what he missed, sheeps the "mason", and then 180s the "mason"
Seriously, if Grey was town he would have actually payed attention to when I said I wasn't a mason.
I don't see any town motivation behind his actions.

Is Grey just _shockingly_ less observant as mafia then he is as town? Do you really think that Town!Grey is more likely to pick up on things you're saying then Scum!Grey?

Imo, most players are as observant as one alignment as another. I'm pretty sure you're just seeing what you want to see and not what's there.

[Grendel]

LUV

Where do you stand on Empking, and Aliase currently?

[Hawk]

I like a lot of Grendel's reads and explanations. While I don't think he's really scumhunting yet he's at least being more contributiversatile than some other players.

Alisae you flip flop your vote so much why?

Can we get on this VOTE: Moz

Like Moz's ISO is pretty lacking in content. He spends plenty of time defending himself, echoing other people's comments and questions. and very little time pressuring. The closest I've seen from him in regards to pressure is FoSing Alisae but he doesn't even do so very heavily just kinda casually and today it was the first comment he made and then when Alisae's wagon formed he hasn't engaged him at all. Just sat back and let everyone else do the work. I don't like this.

[Empking]

I'll wait for your flip before investigating further into scumreads since that's a big chuck of info.

what? you dont suspect anyone else?

Obviously LUV.

Grendel: Its mainly conincidince - as my posting over the last days testifies - and wrt BBT he self-imploded in a really ugly way as soon as he was wagoned, and I was only willing to sheep based on the logic-using rather than a big town-read.

[mozamis]

grendel prob town
wrong, but prob town. faking that sort of shit as scum is hard.

[Alisae]

grendel prob town
wrong, but prob town. faking that sort of shit as scum is hard.

It's not if they are used to giving this kind of infos out while town. It's not hard to fake what is naturally habit ya silly moz.