Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[Mills]

Vote: MariucciFamily

Because he's inactive and he can't fight back!

[Mills]

Egruntz, where are you from?

[Mills]

@ egruntz: I was just asking to work out what mafia site recommends no lynching on Day One because I've never seen one.

@ Snaps: I was wondering how long it would be until someone brought up where I placed my vote. I guess food for thought: It's probably more dangerous than safe since someone was bound to ask why I voted for the inactive player. Although that dissolves into a WIFOM argument.

[Mills]

I'm not sure whether to vote for Disciple Slayer for saying something I found completely ridiculous in an earlier game (ie. he's either scum which is bad for us or he's a liability in general as town which is bad for us) or to vote for Dark Ermac for saying

"Consider it this way.In any mafia game where the mafia aren't retarded, there's going to be a townie lynched on the first day. We might as well random vote rather than not vote at all."

which suggests that he is happy with a completely random lynching on Day One (ie. he's either scum which is bad for us or he's a liability in general as town which is bad for us).

Oh, the great quandaries of Mafia!

[Mills]

Unvote

Vote: Disciple Slayer

the Village Idiot

I refer you to his generally unhelpful posts in this thread and this game (

EDITTED OUT

) where he manages to also be a retard. Also he seems to be lynched a lot on Day One so let's not break the trend!

[Mills]

@ Snaps

I'm quoting this from the other game I'm in since I like the way I put it there.

EDITTED OUT

I feel like we have an exception in this game. *shrug*

[Mills]

I'm not sure if I have chimed in on the egruntz issue (I believe I haven't), but I get a pro-town vibe from him personally.

[Mills]

LOLOLOLOL BURNT

[Mills]

Help, I'm being trolled.

[Mills]

Oh, and I'm also really curious to see if DS and/or Mills will do what I tell them.

I don't get the scum vibe from egruntz and I have free will so I will not be doing what you suggested.

[Mills]

Regarding Disciple Slayer:

My feeling is that he was making useless posts initially. I think his third (?) post was something to the effect of "I'm voting for XXX. Explanations after Christmas." After this came the comments by myself and 1-2 other players about 'mafia hiding in plain sight' and my vote. Then he returns with a

completely

different tone of voice. He votes for BooKitty for a proper reason and calls me an idiot. I find this suspicious for 2 reasons. One: he has failed to explain his vote in the third (?) post which he made seem serious at the time and it would appear as though he changed it instead of explaining it due to the sustained pressure he was receiving. Two: He has become increasingly aggressive towards myself (which is not necessarily unwarranted because I play aggressively too and my reason for voting him was an aggressive one) but I feel that this is a simple way for him to pass me off as an idiot that no one should listen to (thereby relieving a good portion of the pressure on him that came from me).

I will stick with my vote on Disciple Slayer for these reasons. I feel that both are scum-tells.

[Mills]

Regarding Disciple Slayer:

My feeling is that he was making useless posts initially. I think his third (?) post was something to the effect of "I'm voting for XXX. Explanations after Christmas." After this came the comments by myself and 1-2 other players about 'mafia hiding in plain sight' and my vote. Then he returns with a

completely

different tone of voice. He votes for BooKitty for a proper reason and calls me an idiot. I find this suspicious for 2 reasons. One: he has failed to explain his vote in the third (?) post which he made seem serious at the time and it would appear as though he changed it instead of explaining it due to the sustained pressure he was receiving. Two: He has become increasingly aggressive towards myself (which is not necessarily unwarranted because I play aggressively too and my reason for voting him was an aggressive one) but I feel that this is a simple way for him to pass me off as an idiot that no one should listen to (thereby relieving a good portion of the pressure on him that came from me).

I will stick with my vote on Disciple Slayer for these reasons. I feel that both are scum-tells.

Just to expand on both of these briefly:

1. I also do not think that a town-aligned player would have any reason to so

radically

shift their playstyle when called out.

2. It is very convenient for DS that my initial vote for him looked like an attack on him as a person. It allowed him to simply attack back at my character rather than any argument that I have made. If I am not mistaken, he has mostly (completely?) ignored any posts where people have called him out and continues to simply attack my character. This has always been a huge scum-tell to me as a defense tactic. Scum love to attack the man, not the argument when defending themselves.

Sorry for the double post. Hope that clears everything up.

[Mills]

Are lynchers even possible in minimally flavoured games?

[Mills]

So far as I know minimally flavoured has to do with night scenes and role PMs, not the roles themselves. In a closed setup, who knows?

Sorry I meant "New York" games. I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

I am fairly sure you are right that "minimally flavoured" means less hectic themed flavour.

[Mills]

So far as I know minimally flavoured has to do with night scenes and role PMs, not the roles themselves. In a closed setup, who knows?

Sorry I meant "New York" games. I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

I am fairly sure you are right that "minimally flavoured" means less hectic themed flavour.

Edit By Way Of Post[/i]

I'm specifically referring to the forum description.

"This forum is for games with basic roles only".

But it looks like I am probably wrong since there are other games in this forum (some of which I have actually read from memory) not adhering to this rule.

[Mills]

^^ Fail at BBCode.

[Mills]

Games in the New York forum can have a few unusual roles mixed in. Lyncher is extremely unlikely though (it's not fair in a game where people won't expect it).

I was operating under the assumption that we only had the basic newbie roles from the wiki. Is this incorrect because I will need to look at players in a whole different light.

Why would you need to look at players in a whole different light?

Well, with lynchers for example, they certainly tend to behave in different ways to mafia or serial killers. If you want to hunt for lynchers, you need to be looking out for different things. At least that's how I see it. So it certainly makes a difference to the way that I read posts if I am looking for different tells (as a result of looking for different scum roles).

What kinds of roles are 'more' typical in the New York games?

I'd assume the following are certainly possible:
Vanilla
Cop
Doctor
Vigilante
Mafia
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Godfather
Serial Killer

[Mills]

The Fourth Official Flavorless Votecount:

Snaps the pirate - 3

(Thedragonsprincess, liamcool)

The Fonz - 3

(panzerjager, Disciple Slayer)

egruntz - 1

(Xylthixlm)

Bookitty - 1

(the fonz)

Disciple Slayer - 1

(Mills)

Mills - 1

(OhGodMyLife)

liamcool - 0

panzerjager - 0

Thedragonsprincess - 0

OhGodMyLife - 0

MariucciFamily - 0

Sangy - 0

Xylthixlm - 0

curiouskarmadog - 0

Phate - 0

SensFan - 0

Dark Ermac - 0

patch15 - 0

Nobody - 9

(egruntz, Bookitty, MariucciFamily, Sangy, curiouskarmadog, Phate, SensFan, Dark Ermac, patch15)

With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.

---

The votecounts will from now on be done in this fashion to give the players a more complete sense of the game as well as make my job much easier. No, you can not lynch "Nobody".

I was just re-reading and this was the latest votecount provided a few pages back. Is this incorrectly tallied? Both The Fonz and SnapsThePirate have 3 votes listed to their name but only 2 people listed as voting for them.

[Mills]

Some people are posting but not giving any opinions.

Quoted for truth. There are so many players that are non-entities right now. One joke-vote and three non-content posts do not make you a contributor to this game.

I posted what I thought about DS about 1-2 pages ago (with a proper explanation) and it hasn't even receive a single comment. There are definitely all sorts of things for these people to comment on.



Also, I have made an

unofficial

votecount (assuming that is allowed!):

Snaps the pirate (2): Dragonprincess, liamcool

The Fonz (2): Sangy, Panzerjager

Mills (2): OhGodMyLife, curiouskarmadog

Disciple Slayer (2): Mills, Snaps_the_Pirate

Bookitty (2): The Fonz, Disciple Slayer

egruntz (1): Xylthixlm

[Mills]

I dislike the meta-game confrontation between Mills and Disciple Slayer. If I had to place a vote right now, I would put it on one of them. Carrying over hostility from one game to another isn't an acceptable tactic. Mills initiated that subject, but Disciple Slayer joined in with a certain fervor (possible scum distancing, I don't rule that out) and additionally voted The Fonz with reasons to come later, then shifted his vote to me with an argument that while reasonable on the surface, makes no sense given the timing of his previous vote on The Fonz. I'm not certain which I find more vote-worthy, but as I said, if I placed a vote right now, it would be on one of these two.

Reading this, I can’t help but correct you despite the fact that you will probably just view it as me attacking you and decide to vote for me but whatever – if you write something that is wrong, I will always step in to correct you.

I know some players are 100%

against

ever using 'previous games' as a reason for voting but, as I have already stated, I personally believe that in

some

rare circumstances it is an acceptable reason to place a vote (although it will not be very often that you will hear me suggest voting for someone for such a reason). I have already discussed what those circumstances are so I will not rehash them.

You claim that “Carrying over hostility from one game to another isn't an acceptable tactic.” I agree and would

never

do such a thing. It would be childish, immature and stupid. There is no hostility between DS and myself from other games because I have never even played in another game on this site (except for one other game that I am in right now and DS is not in). For this reason, I consider my initial vote to be completely

objective

and not based on any ill-will towards DS.

Since my vote was placed, however, DS has given me several reasons to vote for him that pertain

specifically to this game

which I have outlined in a previous post and will not be rehashing. I'd appreciate if you didn't continue to ignore them and paint the whole argument as "some irrelevant meta-game issue" because you are misrepresenting the situation (whether intentionally or not).

[Mills]

@Egruntz, being a moron is not a playstyle.

Mills, bringing up DS other was purely stupid. You didn't need to. You're newbie scum in my mind and needed a reason to lynch DS and brought that up along with his random votes. I haven't seen anything wrong with what he has done in this game and it didn't warrant your attack on him. Even if he was consistantly a moron, it doesn't mean he is scum. I'd like to call thinking all idiots are scum the Battle Mage Fallacy. I think all your thinking and action has been guided by an anti-town goal and i'd like to conclude with a

Vote:Mills

*shrug* You're entitled to think so but I'm not newbie and nor did I think newbies were allowed into these games. I voted DS initially based on other games and followed it up with reasons based on this game. I admit that I find it increasingly disturbing that some of you are happy to ignore the latter comments based in this game. I replied directly to Bookitty and he all but ignored it. Is this how mafia is played around here? But I digress, everyone is entitled to their own opinion (however misguided it may be)!

[Mills]

still feel good with my gut vote on Mills currently

There is nothing wrong with going with our gut feelings. Sometimes, that is all we have to go on. However, it is very difficult to convince others that the gut feeling we may have is correct. Gut feelings are not random, SOMETHING caused them. If we make a statement based on a gut feeling, it would be helpful to try to figure out where it came from. The reason I bring this up is because a common mafia tactic is to use "gut feelings" as a screen to avoid having to post a real argument.

I didn't particularly want to bring it up since it would probably just be viewed as OMGUS but ckd's play has me a little worried too. He has only made 4 posts in this game.

The first post (#63) is what I like to call the spaghetti strategy in which he attacks a few people in the same post to see what will stick (much like flinging spaghetti at a wall to see what will stick). There was one other thing in this post that I didn't like but I'm doubt anyone else will find it scummy. He writes "Wow, what a scummy first post. I for one am not going to be voting for a no lynch." and this just has a scummy vibe to me. The second sentence in particular makes it feel like he is really anxious to play up that 'we must lynch' angle to represent himself as pro-town. That is more of a gut feeling of mine, however, and I base it on tone. As I said, I don't expect anyone to necessarily agree on that point since it is a personal feeling.

His second post (#66) is just a quick one to unvote the vote he made in post 1 (which I didn't mention since it wasn't particularly relevant I didn't think).

His third post (#130) is to vote for me on gut. I quote: "vote Mills, on gut for now." That's all he says.

His fourth post (#161) says: "still feel good with my gut vote on Mills currently".

And that brings us to the end of ckd's content. Now, I have never played with any of you before, including ckd, so I can't be sure what your usual playstyles are but I do not like the look of this playstyle. He has posted little of substance except some attacks on a few players, a quick uninformed (and later removed) vote on liamcool and an unexplained gut vote on myself. And I don't suppose anyone even picked up on his limited activity either. I feel like ckd is skating by, trying to stay low on Day One.

FoS: curiouskarmadog

I'm actually reconsidering my vote on DS now but I don't know if this is partly because DS has just disappeared from this game altogether and so looks less scummy as time passes. I will do a proper re-read before my vote moves anywhere in any case.

[Mills]

In reference to my gut, I have found out recently (and can provide the game if you are really curious) that if I vote my gut right off the bat I have a better shot of hitting scum. The reason it is gut is because it is a weak case at best (we are still in Day 1 and know next to nothing) and not worth putting out there at this point. Besides if I did, people would say I was scummy because I was trying to stretch for a case. But look, Mills did anyway. At any rate, if I have time (have other games I need to update more thoroughly before this one) if you really want what gave me the vibe, I will post it. Mills's above OMGUS post adds to it.

ckd, I know a lot of people have problems with gut votes, but I certainly don't. I like to make them too. Often I will give the reason and people will call me stupid and more often than not we will later find out I was correct. I know that the reasons are often a 'stretch' but I think it is important to give one anyway.

[Mills]

Dark Ermac: Joking, then saying that it's going to be a townie lynch on day 1 anyway so why not random vote (?!) I don't like that at all. After that, says that it's good to get rid of suspicious people. I agree, but that was not what you said the first time. The first quote was about random voting not being bad, then Mills says that DE is completely happy with a random lynch. He didn't say that at all. Weren't Fonz and Boo talking about straw-men earlier? Why didn't anyone else catch that?

mills: Seems pro-town to me, but I don't like his comment about DE wanting a random lynch. straw-man logical fallacy. Besides that, I've liked what he had to say.

I don't really see where I have straw-manned to be honest. To me, saying that we should vote randomly is equivalent to saying that we should lynch randomly. I don't see how they are different things at all. Could you please elaborate on the differences as you see them?

[Mills]

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I know what random voting is to start a game and that it is useful to lead to an informed lynch.

That isn't what I thought DE was suggesting. It seemed to me like he was suggesting let's all vote randomly to reach a random lynch. He wrote "

Consider it this way.In any mafia game where the mafia aren't retarded, there's going to be a townie lynched on the first day. We might as well random vote rather than not vote at all.

" He is explicitly tieing the concept of random voting to a (random) lynch. I do not think I was incorrect to say what I said.

[Mills]

Mills, that isn't what you said in post 192.

Yes - I apologise for not explaining correctly in the same post. It's an issue of

context

. In the context of resigning ourselves to a townie lynch on day one and subsequently voting randomly to achieve lynch (which is what I believe DE said), I would say that voting randomly is equivalent to saying that we should lynch randomly. I do not think I was straw-manning in such circumstances.

[Mills]

Because there was a discussion with egruntz and others who didn't random vote because either they didn't want to, or, in egruntz's case, he didn't want to random vote or lynch day 1. From what I could gather, his statement was to egruntz saying that random voting is better than not voting.
He never said anything about random lynching. Random votes eventually lead to a lynch, sometimes a townie lynch, and that is what I gathered from DE's statement.
Apparently we each gathered something different from that statement. He never said anything about random lynches, and it seemed like you were trying to link him to a very scummy position that he never actually took.

DE said: "In any mafia game where the mafia aren't retarded, there's going to be a townie lynched on the first day. We might as well random vote rather than not vote at all."

That argument makes no sense if he isn't saying it from the point of view of random voting and random lynching being equivalent (ie. suggesting that we vote randomly until lynching occurs).

In the first sentence, DE says a townie will very likely be lynched.

In the second sentence, he is saying that it would be preferrable for this to happen via random voting rather than no lynch occurring.

I can see how we have both understood different meanings from DE's post but I do not think that my understanding is incorrect. Please think about it more carefully. I'm sure you will see what I am saying.

[Mills]

It's obviously a subjective matter. I guess I can respect your understanding of it even if I don't agree with it.

[Mills]

FoS: everyone voting for Diciple Slayer

Bandwagoning and calling Mills an idiot doesn't make him scum and it seems that people are just jumping on him cause he is an easy lynch.

Not why I'm voting for him. I didn't like his unreasoned vote for the Fonz (reasons to come later), and then his switch to me with a well reasoned argument, but all well after the egruntz situation was more or less discussed through. Do a reread of Disciple Slayer in isolation, and you'll see why I chose to vote him over Mills. His tone and level of participation have varied widely, but neither has been good.

The fact that Mills and Disciple Slayer had such a deep hostility toward each other early on, but now seem to have forgotten all about it, makes me think they're scum distancing. So Mills has not dropped off my scumlist. Quite the reverse.

I don't think a 'lack of hostility' proves anything of the sort since DS has stopped posting. I can't be hostile to him whether I want to or not. He isn't here!!

[Mills]

All you've been doing since the beginning is bandwagon votes. Right now I believe that you are the most scummy, but I won't vote for you. I actually believe you to be a townie. It's hard to understand, but I've seen many games in which the idiot was lynched first, and just so happened to be town. So, everyone who is currently voting for DS: you can choose to either not lynch this townie, or you can lynch him anyway for fears of being taken advantage of by the mafia. Your choice.

This post seems to me like Dark Ermac KNOWS Disciple Slayer is a townie. How does he know this? Only the mafia is sure of everyone’s alignment. Everything Disciple Slayer has done so far looks suspicions. Yet, Dark Ermac, while admitting Disciple Slayer is acting scummy, he defends him. Why?

I got the same feeling reading DE's post initially but I was able to convince myself that it only

sounds

that way in the later sentences because in the first sentence he states that he believes DS is a townie (and carries out his post under that 'assumption' henceforth).

It was still a little concerning though given my earlier apprehensions about the random voting / random lynching comments. As I have already mentioned, I interpreted DE as suggesting a random lynch.

I might do a re-read of DE later tonight.

[Mills]

Don't get me wrong - I think I was the first to jump on DE for some earlier post with the same problem - but I'm just not feeling it here. I don't think he's unequivocally saying that he knows that egruntz is town. I think he is saying that he

knows

(for lack of a better word). It's just something deep down inside that he

knows

to be true (or something he

thinks he knows

). He's just using the wrong word but its more the fault of the English language than his own.

[Mills]

Since posting has slowed down, and in the interest of moving towards consensus, could everyone please check in. If you are voting for DS, who else would you be willing to lynch (as say, a second or third preference). If you are not voting for DS, who would you want to see lynched? If you are DS, could you please post something.

[Mills]

Yeah, Bookitty, you are so right. I haven't weighed in on anything. How did you get so good at this game?

[Mills]

I figured I should reply seriously for those that don't get sarcasm on the internet.

On a reread, Mills strikes me as extremely inconsistent on the whole. I disliked his bringing up of another game in order to attack Disciple Slayer (I think I said that already), provoking a nasty interchange that really gained town nothing. Bringing up other games is bad play, and has nothing to do with a player's alignment in THIS game.

I already said that other games have nothing to do with alignment in this game. Thanks for agreeing with me. I'm not sure how a nasty interchange is suspicious because it 'gained town nothing'. I'm not sure it lost us anything either. I don't see how either of these add up to inconsistencies either. I, however, disagree that bringing up other games is bad play and I am surprised to see you say this since they can provide a wealth of meta-information among other things.

Does some role speculation. Agrees with Xylthixlm that some players are posting without giving any opinions. Argues with me that he wasn't attacking Disciple Slayer because of another game. although Mills brought up the other game as a reason to do so in the first place. Complains because I didn't address his post regarding this (short answer, I didn't believe Mills, and I wanted to see what other people thought of his self-contradiction).

You're pushing it to call my comments 'role speculation'. Someone suggested I was a lyncher and I queried whether that were even possible. I am new to this particular site and it is hard for me to get a handle on things when the games don't stick to the forum rules. You are then incorrect on your further comments on DS. I will not bother to reiterate why - suffice to say that perhaps you should read my earlier posts more closely. As I write this, I wonder why I am bothering to reply to your post. You obviously won't read it because I can only assume you didn't read the last one.

Attacks CKD for "gut" voting for him, saying "I didn't particularly want to bring it up since it would probably just be viewed as OMGUS" -- why would town care about how they were viewed, if they had a valid concern? Then when CKD responds, says:

ckd, I know a lot of people have problems with gut votes, but I certainly don't. I like to make them too. Often I will give the reason and people will call me stupid and more often than not we will later find out I was correct. I know that the reasons are often a 'stretch' but I think it is important to give one anyway.

Which is oddly conciliatory considering his previous attitudes on the vote.

Again, you obviously fail at reading. As I stated previously, I have no problem with gut votes but I do have a problem when

absolutely no reason

is provided and when they are made my a player who has submitted little to no content in this thread to date (and I think ckd would agree with this assessment). Regardless, I didn't attack ckd, I just asked for his reason. He is perfectly entitled to his vote, and I didn't particularly feel that he needed to unvote it (he is welcome to put it back on if he thinks it best), I just wanted a reason!

Attacks Dark Ermac for suggesting a random lynch (paraphrased heavily, but that's the gist of it). Then, when Dark Ermac is attacked for stating someone is definitely a townie, says this:

Don't get me wrong - I think I was the first to jump on DE for some earlier post with the same problem - but I'm just not feeling it here. I don't think he's unequivocally saying that he knows that egruntz is town. I think he is saying that he knows (for lack of a better word). It's just something deep down inside that he knows to be true (or something he thinks he knows). He's just using the wrong word but its more the fault of the English language than his own.

I don't think anyone except Dark Ermac can know exactly what Dark Ermac meant there. Certainly in my view the second case against DE is less of a stretch than Mills' first case, but Mills defends him here, while attacking him fairly strongly in the first, less strong case. Asks for the town's input on top suspects, without giving his own (generally this looks to me like scum looking for ideas), and now we're up to the end of the thread.

No shit. Welome to Mafia - the game where no one can know exactly what anyone else is thinking unless they are the person thinking it. Welcome to a game built on the premise of making

judgement decisions

about what they are thinking or implying in their posts. This is the equivalent of calling me suspicious for playing the game of Mafia.

Asks for the town's input on top suspects, without giving his own (generally this looks to me like scum looking for ideas), and now we're up to the end of the thread.

I have made my position perfectly clear on several players (DS, DE, ckd) and will be looking to do a re-read in the near future and see if I can drum anything else up. I can't say I am surprised that you bring this up however. No one likes a town leader but someone had to get this thread back on track.

Something isn't adding up here. So I'm going to

unvote; vote Mills

.

Don't quit your day job.

[Mills]

Yeah Bookitty, continue to make misrepresented arguments. It's A++ scum-hunting! How do I get as good at this game as you?

[Mills]

xD. Meant:

We should not be lynching antitown players. We should be lynching proscum players.

Oh sure.

[Mills]

Yeah Bookitty, continue to make misrepresented arguments. It's A++ scum-hunting! How do I get as good at this game as you?

Angry, defensive players always make themselves look guilty, whether they are or not.

I know but maybe if a sufficient number of pro-town angry, defensive players get lynched then people will stop assuming it to be a scum tell? Maybe I'm doing some common good.

[Mills]

Bookitty - I get easily frustrated when players misconstrue my words.

When I said "no one likes a town leader" I was pointing out that no one likes "being told what to do". I would have thought this implication was obvious so I became frustrated when you claim something akin to me saying I was declaring myself town leader.

Similar problems apply to 3-4 other things you wrote.

PS: If you really want to push my buttons, you should probably reply now and say something like:

Accuse someone of being nasty immediately after accusing them of being overly conciliatory, and they resort back to being overly conciliatory. Never fails.

[Mills]

I should probably refer you to the Earth/Fire/Wind/Water thread that was in Mafia Discussion. I'm the only player around who qualifies as 'Heart'. My emotions run wild and free, regardless of alignment, up and down, depending on how I feel from moment to moment. I have no doubt it will always look suspicious until one becomes used to it.

[Mills]

I'm not a newbie!

[Mills]

1. You need to learn to spell 'condescension'. It hurts my mind if you are going to keep quoting that word.

2. Being new to mafia on

this particular site

does not make me new to mafia.

[Mills]

You don't find it odd that Mills attacked Dark Ermac pretty strongly on a semantics issue, and then defended him on a much more telling one?

Hmmm.

You

find it odd because:

(i)

you

don't share my opinion over DE's posts;

(ii)

you

consider the second iteration to be the more telling of the two;

You're barking up a subjective tree. You can't villify people for having a different opinion. It's simply erroneous logic.

[Mills]

Insulting you is not erroneous logic. There is no logic involved in insulting you. I insulted you because I felt like it. I find your accusations laughable. *shrug*

You are trying to vilify me. It might help if you remember your own posts.

In any case, I have grown quickly tired of this sniping. Au Revoir.

[Mills]

unvote

Welcome!

[Mills]

I sent this to Elias.

"Please replace me. I don't have the patience for the play styles on this forum (which for the most part seem to be 'disappear for several days at a time'). Sorry for any inconvenience."

Ultimately I suppose it doesn't concern me if you choose to think I'm lying and lynch whoever replaces in - I won't be posting again.

Good luck everyone.

[Mills]