Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[WhemeStar]

Hi everyone.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Gerryoat because he hates RVS

I don't like it either.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar then let's get you to love it.

RVS is great!

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Let's wagon this RVS hater.

Your information is out of date, go back to post #9

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Let's wagon this RVS hater.

Your information is out of date, go back to post #9

Lynch all liars.

your post 9 is a lie, obv

unless your post is a lie about mine being a lie, which makes you a liar, and we should lynch all liars.

[WhemeStar]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

[WhemeStar]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Have you played with LuV before? Asking for a friend.

Nope!

[WhemeStar]

Yo, forgive me if I'm not super attentive in RVS. I'm sick IRL and have lower mental function right now from all these meds.

VOTE: sheep

Somebody said something about a slip I want more.

Hope you get better soon!

[WhemeStar]

Nope!

Kay, what's your method for choosing a random vote? My process is normally wagon someone, or start a wagon on someone I know/has talked. LUV falls under none of that for you.

I don't like him as a rapper.

[WhemeStar]

Yah go fro99er you rock!

[WhemeStar]

I absolutely trust that - you should place a vote

so the rest of town

can sheep you.

Is this the slip?

Sheep has been baaaaaaaaaaaaaad *makes sheep noise when saying Bad*

I think we got the joke when you said "baaaaaaaaaad"

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

[WhemeStar]

They're* sorry on phone

[WhemeStar]

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

I'm not particularly happy that your opinion is basically a non-opinion. As of so far, I've not seen you have a strong opinion on what's going on.

What about lil Uzi then?

[WhemeStar]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

This is your entire opinion, and it's based off of one post by Uzi. I'm not privy to counting that.

Uzi came in, sheeped a vote on sheep, which put him at L-2, didn't say anything, and then asked someone else to join the wagon. Which would put sheep at L-1. #Post 52 BTW. So yes, I do have a reason to think he is suspicious. If you want to talk about the other two people, their complaining about a slip, without a slip being there, a good scum won't slip, but scum would make it seem like people made a slip.

[WhemeStar]

Fire gimme a medal for solving the game already, thanks.

[WhemeStar]

I do think the WAY lil popped in was slightly awkward tho.
VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert here is a start. Gn

What was awkward about the way I popped in?

If nothing else you were the last one to vote him. Also why acknowledge Naomi and no one else who hadn't posted yet?

@Wheme of the three of us who did you like least? Do you not link early wagons? I think it's getting nice content from Sheep. And generating discussion.

Lil Uzi, I have no problem with them, but its okay to be suspicious of the people who put them at L-2, wouldn't you be suspicious of someone hammering a wagon? Where's the cutoff point on the wagon. I thought it generated good discussion too, froggy got the reactions from people that he wanted.

[WhemeStar]

@Lowell - So you would have been okay with the pressure on WhemeStar if you'd thought of it before me? Is that a habit that will carry through the game? Feels like it would make you hard to cooperate with if town.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Have you played with LuV before? Asking for a friend.

Can I ask if there's any reason you said that? Or if its just you're curiosity as why my vote is on him

[WhemeStar]

At least me saying something was a slip got this game moving out of RVS. lmao

I feel like it was Froggy who pointed out the "slip", not you. Don't really like how you take the credit for it too.

[WhemeStar]

I will say.

IF

I'm wrong on sheep, Wheme is almost certainly scum. They aren't scum together.

Why would I be the "almost certainly scum?"

[WhemeStar]

@Mod penguin also hasn't posted. Why no replacement search for him?

Because you are doing one thing that I find scum do, but in this case it could have been done for a town reason. I don't want to point it out yet to see if it continues.

Are you talking about WK? If so is there a page on the wiki about WK? I've never heard of it, would like to read on it.

[WhemeStar]

No. I'm not talking about WK

Ok, ill try not to ask anymore questions since you in a previous post said you don't like answering them.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

[WhemeStar]

We should really start following the mods requests

[WhemeStar]

Ill start our story, Froggy is the frog prince, who has to kiss the princess ( sheep) in order to transform into a prince. This is why Froggy has been tunneling sheep all game. To get closer to sheep and become one with each other.

In answer to mods question, Sheep is the princess.

[WhemeStar]

Bleh that return did just what I said I was giving him Green cred for. losing his position in my mind now.

Huh? Who is this referring to?

Frog

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

Blank votes can go die in a fire. Explain your vote on hawk in 25 words or more.

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

[WhemeStar]

In reply to chaos question about me, yes I still think they are both town.

[WhemeStar]

Groggy failed Fire as the prince of our story

[WhemeStar]

I think hawk jumped on the sheep wagon which was a weak slip, him and others jumped on it which makes me suspect them a little bit, which one town wants to lynch? Idc, saw people voting hawk, so I voted himself too because he is also suspicious to me

[WhemeStar]

FFS forgot to quote

[WhemeStar]

I think hawk jumped on the sheep wagon which was a weak slip, him and others jumped on it which makes me suspect them a little bit, which one town wants to lynch? Idc, saw people voting hawk, so I voted himself too because he is also suspicious to me

FFS forgot to quote

Was this in response to my earlier post or someone else's?

Naomi asking me why I voted Hawk.

[WhemeStar]

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

VOTE: WhemeStar

Here are all your posts from the first few pages:

Hi everyone.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I don't like it either.

RVS is great!

Your information is out of date, go back to post #9

unless your post is a lie about mine being a lie, which makes you a liar, and we should lynch all liars.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Nope!

Hope you get better soon!

I don't like him as a rapper.

Yah go fro99er you rock!

I think we got the joke when you said "baaaaaaaaaad"

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

They're* sorry on phone

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

What about lil Uzi then?

Uzi came in, sheeped a vote on sheep, which put him at L-2, didn't say anything, and then asked someone else to join the wagon. Which would put sheep at L-1. #Post 52 BTW. So yes, I do have a reason to think he is suspicious. If you want to talk about the other two people, their complaining about a slip, without a slip being there, a good scum won't slip, but scum would make it seem like people made a slip.

Fire gimme a medal for solving the game already, thanks.

Lil Uzi, I have no problem with them, but its okay to be suspicious of the people who put them at L-2, wouldn't you be suspicious of someone hammering a wagon? Where's the cutoff point on the wagon. I thought it generated good discussion too, froggy got the reactions from people that he wanted.

It wasn't until Post 56, when you had a vote placed against you, that you really offered up anything substantial. That post, however, is the only one I can find that even remotely links your suspicion to Hawk, and you have yet to elaborate on it at all, despite joining in with others on the Hawk vote and despite explicitly being asked to clarify your reasoning in Post 241. Anything you can add to expound on your suspicion would be helpful.

Post 5-46 are not to be taken seriously. It wasn't because a vote was on me, it was because the person who placed the vote on me asked a question. Which I answered saying that I thought the push on sheep was weak and that Hawk, Lil Uzi, and Gerry, jumped on it because one of them is probably scum.
I still think that Froggy/Sheep are both townies. And at least one of the three I said earlier are scum.

[WhemeStar]

pect you to still be on Lil Uzi, considerin

You expect me to be on Lil Uzi, but I don't really care who Im on, because I have suspicion on all 3 of them almost equally. So if the rest of the town thinks its Hawk I'm fine with voting Hawk too. Ill go In more detail in a couple of mins, folding laundry right now.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme, you really think who was on Sheep at the time is the by far most Alignment telling thing that's happend so far? you have no read on other things like actual game-solving done?

WHat did you think about lil's case on sheep a page ago or so. What do you think about me. and what did you think about my #311 about you?

I feel this game is just sheep/froggy arguing with each other, and I think their both town. I like the way sheepy defended himself and how froggy pushed him. They are still both town reads for me. Honestly I am behind, trying to catch up more and more but than more and more pages are getting added, which is why I'm really only responding to things being asked towards me, trying to catch up though. And ill hopefully have more reads soon.

[WhemeStar]

Ok, time to get active again, give me 30 mins or so to read everything.

[WhemeStar]

Ok, time to get active again, give me 30 mins or so to read everything.

I lied, resident evil 7 for an hour or so and then back to mafia! Sorry about my inactiveness guys, this game is going by a lot faster than my newbie game is.

[WhemeStar]

games here are so slow, i feel weird about having close to no content

My first newbie game was slow, not used to having more content

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

No opinion on:

Lowell and my interactions
CO and Frogger's interactions
Sheep's response to it
Gerrygoat in general
Lowell on ECM and Naomi

There's a circus going on and you're just focusing on the last act.

Ill try to do this piece by piece, too try and show that I'm trying my best to help out town. Sorry if you prefer me to give my opinions in one big post though.

Gerrygoat in general has been useless IMO. He hasn't contributed anything to the game (less than me) and I find it suspicious. Only thing he contributed too was saying sheep slipped, and claimed that he was the one who pointed out the slip, but Frogger did IMO. But I don't think mafia would do what gerry is doing, so Im going to say he's null-town

Sheep and Frogger have been going at it all game. At first I thought it was froggy just trying to get reactions out of others, but then it kept going on and on. After reading both of their posts over and over I think sheep is trying to just blame froggy of not reading his posts/answering his questions/misrepping him. Which I think is a scummy move, just asking questions over and over again. I thought sheep's slip wasn't really a slip, but his posts lately have me thinking he is possible scum.

Lowell- I don't like some of his posts, such as iso #2. Where he voted sheep and said "is the slip real? who knows". Seems to me like he didn't have much reason to vote sheep and he didn't really care. I do like his recap on post #355 though. Also said that EC/Naomi flipped when he had a FOS on them, yet I don't see anything that shows them flippinng out. Possible scum.

I find it really strange how Lowell said AJ's posts are spot on and right. Yet in a previous post, AJ said that he thinks Lowell is scum. Is that a slip? I also think that Lowell is wrong on Naomi, she seems genuine town for me, and I will be against a lynch on her for a while.

EC, please get avatar, pls. EC voted me for not explaining my vote on Hawk? Which I thought I did, and I had nothing else to say about it. Used my previous posts as an example of me saying nothing. And said me getting a vote on me is the reason I became substantial. Which was wrong.

If you guys want more or if I missed some things, ask and Ill try to explain best I can.
For now, id like to vote lowell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

[WhemeStar]

I feel like this game is froggy vs sleepy, and I'm not sure on what to say about it.

you're caught up?

About there, reading the last 2 pages or so, have been ISOing players though.

[WhemeStar]

I said with gerrry not contributing he could be town because I don't see in any reality where scum doesn't say anything. Because if you do what Gerry is doing than that will bring suspicion to you.

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people, I need to work on making my own reads, I'm new. Right now I read the two sides and agreed one one of them. For instance, as you pointed out. Someone else posted nearly the same thing I did with Lowell's ISO #2. And I agree with that person (forgot who). Same thing with AJ and Lowell, After lowell's reads, AJ said "you said Im town for being spot on with my reads, yet i called you scum".

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

sheeping Terata's case. It's basically what I was about to say wrt Wheme not having any unique reads but painting them as his own thoughts.

I actually think Wheme is my strongest scumread of the game now, and lord knows I've been all over the place.

Im not trying to paint them as my own thoughts, they haven't. Sorry if it seems that way.

[WhemeStar]

look a the 2 statements i bolded and be amazed

and then look at the sentence right after. I said i find it suspicious he hasnt been posting, but at the same time would mafia really do that?

[WhemeStar]

Yah go fro99er you rock!

Why did you say this about my case on sheep, if you thought it was weak?

It wasn't meant to be taken seriously, more like a joke post. Look @ the posts before it and the one after it too. Most if not all of them are joke posts.

[WhemeStar]

Calling absolute bull on this one. Show me the receipts.

The only person I've "attacked" for filler so far has been Gerroat. I quoted all of WhemeStar's initial posts to prove against their statement that they already explained their vote against Hawk in the first couple of pages—which they really didn't.

Also, the bold text in your quote suggests you see me as a lurker. Care to elaborate on that? Since I've been added as a replacement I've been on top of this game fully.

Now about avoiding conflict, I have two responses to that:

• I'm not. I don't exactly see how calling out two players (Fro99er, Naomi) for their play styles and persisting that a player justifies their vote (WhemeStar) constitutes "avoiding conflict."
  
  
• If I was, what exactly would your point be? Avoiding conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly this early in the game. Right now we're still about deliberation and facilitating discussion. I don't have to be going at people like Fro99er is Cooperative Sheep to advance the game in this stage.

Okay,

now

I'm really leaving for the day. Just had to respond to that one.

this is not a towny response to pressure. Strong emotion without really wolf reading him, just wanting to prove him wrong and get him on another path. This last sentence especially shows he was just

responding

, and not doing anything active in terms of solving the player he lashed out on.

Simple defense isn't really something towns get super engaged in unless they're really forced to IME,

and even in that they constantly consider the pushing person's alignment more than i see this post doing.

Apologies, but I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you're getting at here. You dislike my post because you feel the emotion in it is too strong against a player I haven't explicitly stated as scum—I trust that's what you mean by "wolf read?" Are you saying that players should only defend themselves against players they feel are scum? And, to confirm, are you saying by the bold text that it's a scum tell to defend yourself before being threatened with action of lynch? If so, you'd be seriously wrong.

And, yes, my post was a response to Lowell without offering any read on him. You're saying that's a scum tell?

basically, im saying you investigating the accuser back usually comes naturally as town, even if it isn't the main pupose of the post, you usually can notice it. I didn't. And scum does that more yes. But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

Want me to reveal?

[WhemeStar]

If you think I'm scum I'm more than happy too. I feel your reaching with post #477. Yes, I find it suspicious that all his posts are useless, but at the same time I don't think that a scum would purposely seem suspicious

[WhemeStar]

If you think I'm scum I'm more than happy too. I feel your reaching with post #477. Yes, I find it suspicious that all his posts are useless, but at the same time I don't think that a scum would purposely seem suspicious

but then you don't find it suspicious...

Yes, I do find it suspicious, but why would a scum want to be suspicious?

[WhemeStar]

No, I'm not throwing shade at him, I was just trying to voice my explanation on why I thought he could be town. Which started with his useless posts.

[WhemeStar]

Just looked @ page 1 and 2, and yes Gerry did point out the slip, not froggy. I thought froggy was responding to the slip @ post 23, but that was a different post of sheep's.

[WhemeStar]

No, it doesn't change my read on him, but what does "he's not solved mean?"

[WhemeStar]

No, it doesn't change my read on him, but what does "he's not solved mean?"

well your read on him is that he's not been solving the game, and wolves wouldn't do that no? that's what i meant.

and ok.

What's your read on me?

Your town, I like how your pushing me and other players.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

How come you never tried to push and poke at LUV, Hawk, and Gerry more?

You just were content to be on any one of the three.

You still haven't tried to sort them, just moved over to Lowell. What happened to your read of LUV and Hawk? You've now ruled Gerry null-town, I guess, but not from your own pressure of that spot.

Forgot about them, I really only had a FOS on them, and in previous pages they haven't said much that gives me a read on them.

[WhemeStar]

No, it doesn't change my read on him, but what does "he's not solved mean?"

well your read on him is that he's not been solving the game, and wolves wouldn't do that no? that's what i meant.

and ok.

What's your read on me?

Your town, I like how your pushing me and other players.

Which other players specifically?

Lil Uzi early on, and Chaos.

[WhemeStar]

pect you to still be on Lil Uzi, considerin

You expect me to be on Lil Uzi, but I don't really care who Im on, because I have suspicion on all 3 of them almost equally. So if the rest of the town thinks its Hawk I'm fine with voting Hawk too. Ill go In more detail in a couple of mins, folding laundry right now.

Except you were still suspecting them on post 330 almost equally, and never did go into more detail.

yes, i also believe I've stated somewhere that I haven't been keeping up and am behind. So I saw people were voting hawk and i voted him too, because my reads haven't yet changed.

[WhemeStar]

Also, to throw salt @mod, I'm not used to VC's every 5 pages or so, really hurts when figuring out who's on who. Step up ur game pls.

[WhemeStar]

can you actually give a full reads list. I didn't know you had me town for example. Maybe there are more hidden people in there. you don't have to give more than names if you don't want to, but a few keywords each would be widely appriciated if you have the time

Sure, I know some for sure reads on town, but give me a second and Ill try to ISO everyone.

[WhemeStar]

Froggy
Naomi
Tereta - Like his posts and his pushes on me and others
AJ - like how he pushes some people like Tereta is, asked questions to get discussion.

EC - FFS get an avatar pls, I like how he pushed me for not explaining in detail with Hawk.
Gerry - Doesn't post much, but I don't think that scum would be so obvious
Lil Uzi - Posts don't contain much but every once in a while he posts something good, like post #287
Hawk - I don't really see where he fell off, can someone help explain that too me?
Chaos - I agree with others saying he tried to derail Sheep's wagon
Penguin - Not much to say with him only having 6 posts.

Sheep- Don't really like how his response to frog was mostey questions, and then called out frog for being scum by not answering said questions.
Lowell - HIs post counteracts itself when he said that he likes AJ because he is a lurker but when he posts his reads are spot on, but AJ called him scum earlier.

[WhemeStar]

Anyone you want me to go into more detail on?

[WhemeStar]

Its ordered top from bottom. Froggy my biggest town read, Lowell biggest scum read.

[WhemeStar]

Frogg is pretty obvious, but Naomi im more interested in, i think she seems like an active player overall and wonder what specifically makes you townread her. Also you dont have to think Hawk has fell off, just give your own thoughts on him.

(btw, are all your reads ordered? or is it just general tiers?)

I've liked her posts since her first one. I don't have much else to say besides that, her posts seem town genuine.

[WhemeStar]

Frogg is pretty obvious, but Naomi im more interested in, i think she seems like an active player overall and wonder what specifically makes you townread her. Also you dont have to think Hawk has fell off, just give your own thoughts on him.

(btw, are all your reads ordered? or is it just general tiers?)

I've liked her posts since her first one. I don't have much else to say besides that, her posts seem town genuine.

ok, thoughts on hawk?

I had a FOS on Hawk since the sheep slip, which I thought was weak, but I don't see how he fell off, which is why he's null for me, not scum.

[WhemeStar]

Im not really too great with doing the multiple quote things so Im not gonna try. But this post is in response to Chaos's. Bold words are chaos's.

Now, let's talk about why WhemeStar is obvious scum that needs to be dead like now.

In my wall response to frogger, I mentioned WhemeStar's 150, and how it read as blatant appeasement and not trying to gamesolve at all. The whole frogger-WhemeStar convo from 144 to 151 is good to look at. frogger expresses suspicion of Wheme if Sheep flips town, and Wheme seems worried about it in response, asking why in 145 and then nervously trying to figure out what frogger is scumreading him for in 148, and then the pathetic placation in 150. If Wheme was town, why the fuck would he just roll over like that and try to appease frogger as opposed to confronting him? It's like he knows he's guilty, and is just trying to be nice and fade into the background. This exchange is part of the reason I'm not sold on Sheep-scum, since I'm assuming Wheme is scum and his reaction would not have been like that if Sheep was his partner; he would just shut up and take the town-cred on a Sheep lynch.

You know, its really hard to get emotion right over words typed on a screen, because I wasn't nervous at all then. I was just wondering why he would suspect me because its my first normal game and I had no clue on what his reasons were. Yes, I was town reading sheep for the early part of the game, because I thought the slip on him and push on him was weak, but I didn't like his responses over time.

- Why is Gerry so much higher than Penguin here? Reasoning for each would seem to indicate they'd be next to each other.
- Look at how he townreads Tereta and EC for pushing him. He doesn't challenge them for being wrong, it's like how he tried to resolve the same issue with frogger, say their play is pro-town and hope they leave him alone.
- So Lowell is supposedly his biggest scumread, yet the reasoning for it is so lame. It's nothing but a slip that other people had talked about prior.

Because Gerry has been here all game, Penguin was late to the party.
I said they pushed me and others, which isn't that what a town should do? Push people even if the person their pushing may be town?
The slip on Sheep wasn't really a slip either, look where that got us.

So your opinions aren't your own thoughts?

My opinions are thoughts of others jumbled into what I like, and what I don't like. I admit I need to work with coming up with my own thoughts/ideas.

[WhemeStar]

I'll actually read later on.

Liar.

_____________________________

Spoiler: Spoilered wall post that I skimmed and liked

"What are all these bolded lines" you ask. Well it's all the things that pinged me in this post.
He seems super apologetic in his wordings which i haven't really seen from his previous play, an example being "im trying my best to help town" (talking about town as a seperate entity). I also had a problem with how he tries to take credit for coming up with certain reads that he clearly sheeped from others in the thread. If he said he sheeped them it would be completely fine, but he talks like he thought them up himself. Specifically the one about Lowell slipping about AJ's reads but also a little about the Sheep read, which was summarized with what problems other's have had with Sheep all game (and this is after he read the posts "over and over").

He made sure to point out someone who had done less pro-town things than he has (gerry) which mafia loves to do when they feel they're getting pressure even though there are towns not showing towniness. And he KEPT saying he's having the same null/townread about Gerry which he had for the same reason as earlier that had been called out by BOTH gerry and frogg, who you're still saying pointed out the initial slip. He just won't back down from his initial statement even though it's clearly wrong, and that's much more scummy than being wrong in the first place in this scenario. Also, why would he even say Gerry's been contributing less than he has if he's still null-townreading gerry? Seems like standard shade to me.

Last but not least i dislike in what form he gives his Naomi read. He says it like "I also think Lowell is wrong on Naomi..." as to shade Lowell (his scumread) for being wrong on a town, which seems like a tmi read to me if i've ever seen one. That read just doesn't come naturally to you to call Lowell wrong in your case on him if you don't know the alignment of the person being read. And disliked how he phrased "id like to vote" at the end. A struggling finish to a scummy post.

This is what a confident vote looks like VOTE: WhemeStar !

(Chaos made me doubt since his comeback)

Sheep fell apart. I can do Wheme.

VOTE: Wheme

Also, most of my reads are sheeps from other people

Want me to reveal?

I'm going to try and vote you again.
VOTE: Wheme
_______________________________

Spoiler: Why I think Gerry is scum

58, 134, 136, and 152

What first pinged me about Gerry before I did my first reread of his ISO was his 58. On the surface it looks like just filler, but if you look and think it about it on a deeper level, he's arguable treating himself as confirmed town that shouldn't be considered for a lynch today by anyone for getting the game out of RVS as well as starting a wagon on Sheep.

Fast forward to a bit to 134, he does the same thing again by discrediting not only Naomi's read on him but also her as a player by bringing up a previous game without any context in which he claims he got two members of the scum team lynched.

136 is self explanatory.

I'm inclined to believe 152 is more scum motivated than town motivated and it only reinforces my read on him. He's hints at a PR of some sort and says he shouldn't be lynched today. There was no pressure on him at the time and the overall focus was on Sheep as well as the various arguments Frog was getting into so it was odd for him to drop that soft like it's hot and just leave. Scum have more to gain by bread crumbing in my opinion. It helps them with fake claiming and it can potential draw doctors and jail keepers to them.

TL:DR: Gerry has been been basically treating himself as confirmed town since RVS ended.

I think Gerry tried to distance from Sheep early and it sort of backfired a bit. I also think he could be just scum that tried to spread and pray on paranoia early and Sheep is town.

If we lynch Gerry today, we'll probably feel a lot better about Sheep's alignment

LUV moves up in my townreads to join Fro99er and Naomi. Congrats on the promotion. Unfortunately there is no pay raise associated.

@Penguin, what is wrong with asking to reveal? I asked the question because votes were being put on me and people suspected me so I didn't know if I should reveal or not. But oh well, Ill do it anyway.

Im a

Town Odd Night Rolestopper.

. Sorry if my actions don't seem towny, Im working on it still.

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

[WhemeStar]

Wheme why the f did you offer to out your role at like L-3 or L-4?

This is my first game as a role other than VT. Didn't know if I should or not, didn't think it was a big deal to ask if I should or not

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

Hmm, did I misread your post? Looked on wiki and no clue what "OTOH" stands for.

[WhemeStar]

UNVOTE:

that could very easily be a scum role. OTOH, scum have daychat...why wouldn't they coach Wheme more and tell him not to seem so eager to claim?

With the wagon on me they are doing a bad job on coaching me then.

Hmm, did I misread your post? Looked on wiki and no clue what "OTOH" stands for.

My post was sarcasm btw. Don't take that seriously.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Wheme

So you unvoted me because I claimed my role, then voted me for claiming my role.

Not at all.

I unvoted you so I could think. Not for claiming your role.

I voted you because after thinking about it, your behavior and claim make no sense as town.

Mind answering me about what OTOH means? Also, lets say I get lynched, who do you suspect when I flip green?

[WhemeStar]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

Lol gtfo, "he used a period and made his role green! Obviously copied it from somewhere"

[WhemeStar]

That post has to be one of the dumbest reasons to say "I'm still comfortable voting him" Next time just say your still comfortable being a sheep to froggy

[WhemeStar]

bruh... did you really claim that fast lol. I'll actually reread and give my reads in a bit.

rolestopper is usually a maf role i think tho. unless we have like a vig or something..

It's town this game tho

[WhemeStar]

offering to claim early as a protective is objectively bad town play. you want to stop a night kill if you are town, not draw the night kill. ESPECIALLY to have urgency to claim that on an odd day for an odd-night power. It's a bit more understandable if it were day 2 and he couldn't use it going into N2.

I think he'd know that as a town rolestopper.

Ergo, scum is the more likely possibility.

So your willing to lynch me even though mafia will probably kill me tonight? Why not lynch someone, let me do my job tonight, and lynch me tomorrow since N2 I'm useless

[WhemeStar]

So your willing to lynch me even though mafia will probably kill me tonight?

Becausethis is all fucking wifom

IF you are town they might try to kill someone else just to leave you alive for us to be like "why is Wheme alive"

horrible horrible wifom

If I was scum why would I claim that then? I would tell my team In daychat that I'm gonna reveal, and they would obviously tell me not to because of the reasons you stated would they not?

[WhemeStar]

I think I'm going to request replacement. I'm just not free enough right now to maintain a mafia game.

Wish you luck in your future games if you replace out.

[WhemeStar]

So your willing to lynch me even though mafia will probably kill me tonight?

Becausethis is all fucking wifom

IF you are town they might try to kill someone else just to leave you alive for us to be like "why is Wheme alive"

horrible horrible wifom

If I was scum why would I claim that then? I would tell my team In daychat that I'm gonna reveal, and they would obviously tell me not to because of the reasons you stated would they not?

You do know what WIFOM means, right?

Not unvoting. I believe the odd-night rolestopper part of the claim, just not the town part.

I just wiki'd it, so sorta? And I can't wait to get lynched and flip as green, because everything I try to save you guys don't believe or think is BS.

[WhemeStar]

In reply to Hawk, I thought Sheep VS froggy was TvT at first, but then I started to think that Sheep was scum, didn't like his responses to frog and how he asked questions over and over then called out frog for being scum for not answering those questions.
With Gerry its hard too explain, but all game his posts haven't said much and he's been around all game. I just don't think scum would want to do that, I haven't read his other games to see if this is how he is every game though.
I liked Lowell's recap of everything in 355. Made it easier to read the game IMO.
Look @ Lowell's 355 and then AJ's 374, if you look at it a certain way it looks like Lowell just slipped.

This may be a dumb question and I may be reading my role wrong, but if I hit a PR is that bad? I mean the PR can still do night actions, I just block the actions on the PR. So I can stop him getting hit by mafia can I not?

[WhemeStar]

The more i look into this, the more I see that my lynch is bad.
First off, mafia knows I'm town right? They want me lynched. So at least 1-2 mafia are voting me, thats a given. Saying this just so if I get lynched you guys can suspect the people voting me. Now, as people said my role is important. So that means mafia probably wants me dead right? So why lynch me if mafia wants me dead? You could say "well then mafia won't kill you so you we all question you day 2" Tell me how to convince you I'm town then, because I'm sorry if it doesn't seem like it by how bad I am playing but I want to win.

On a sidenote, what information is gained by seeing I'm Town Odd night Rolestopper

[WhemeStar]

Wheme, can you cite the posts that gave you pause and caused you to 180 on Sheep?

Hawk's wall on you, combined with his post on Wheme, looks like an attempt to derail the Wheme lynch and drag attention back to you. The case reads as recycled material and having an agenda. He's my top scumread not named WhemeStar.

His ISO #8, #9, #11, he voted Froggy for not answering his questions, which looks like to me he tried to get a wagon on froggy going and get pressure of of him

[WhemeStar]

Gerry is town

May we have your reasons?

[WhemeStar]

Welcome to he game, HavingFitz

[WhemeStar]

@Chaos - you called him out for a read change with about 100 posts inbetween. I haven't gone back and looked, but I'm pretty sure Frog and I wall war-ed it up during those 100 posts in some level. I would also note that at some point in the game Frog claimed I lacked logic and about 2 players sheeped him off that call (even though later Frog admitted he'd "misunderstood" me in his case). While we're at it, people are still acting like his original case had merit, without comment on how even Frog shifted his case.

So, to be short, I think there was a silly amount of negativity and noise about the case, and I think multiple players (town and scum) kind of hopped on it/weren't reading and just going for the possible mislynch/some combination thereof. So a read change hardly seems shocking to me at that stage.

Wheme, can you cite the posts that gave you pause and caused you to 180 on Sheep?

His ISO #8, #9, #11, he voted Froggy for not answering his questions, which looks like to me he tried to get a wagon on froggy going and get pressure of of him

(for reference, those ISO numbers refer to post 107, 110, and 158)

Sheep, now knowing that the reason for Wheme's 180 are all within the first 7 pages, after which Wheme had previously called your slot town multiple times (307, 329, 332), does that change your thoughts on his flip on your slot?

Wheme, you said, "he voted Froggy for not answering his questions, which looks like to me he tried to get a wagon on froggy going and get pressure of of him". I definitely see pro-town motive in that summary. This is my big problem with all of this. It looks like you're singing along with the melody, but you don't understand the lyrics. Post 110 that you cited has fucking nothing at all to do with Sheep's push on frogger. You said before that your opinions this game are thoughts of others jumbled into what you like. Was your early town read on Sheep gotten in that way?

------

Open question to anyone that scumreads Wheme but doesn't want to lynch them because of the Rolestopper claim: Why? What benefit are you hoping to gain by giving them a night to work? Even if they are town, their power is neutered now because the scum know they have to play around a protection.

Sorry, must of missed this. But to answer your question my read on sheep when I posted it before was out of date, I wasn't really reading up on the game and wasn't really into it. No, my opinion that sheep was town before was not a result of others opinions. I believe I'm one of the first people to call both sheep & froggy town.

[WhemeStar]

So are you guys saying me flipping town will out two scum?

In reply to Hawk, i don't like Sheeps posts #451 & #449. In 449 he said that he believes Chaos is scum, but why hasn't he voted him at all?

[WhemeStar]

I'm fine with lynching sheep.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sheep

[WhemeStar]

I don't have much to say, if your fine with lynching a protective role to out scum I'm fine with a lynch on me

[WhemeStar]

Uh I read in previous post by froggy that me and chaos both can't be scum, so if one of us town the other is prob scum

[WhemeStar]

Welcome To the game.

[WhemeStar]

I don't think he's completely caught up yet.

[WhemeStar]

Omfg I'm sorry I did it again

[WhemeStar]

Whemeplay is me

@mod sorry about that

[WhemeStar]

Now get an avatar unknown

[WhemeStar]

It's not a reaction I want him to get a avatar. He said do something productive and u posted

[WhemeStar]

Going over Chaos's point again about why lynching me is no big deal since scum knows theres a protective and has to play around that. Isn't that what we want scum to do though? Now that scum knows 100% I'm protective shouldn't they want to kill me, and if they play around my role isn't that good for town? They can't hit the person they want to hit if they think I'm going to protect them. Now that scum knows I'm Rolestopper, they either want me to get lynched or kill me because I don't think they would want to play around my role.

[WhemeStar]

I don't like the idea of making another PR claim just to try to confirm me, your going to find out if I'm scum or town either today or tonight either way

[WhemeStar]

How would we find out if you are scum tonight?

If I'm not dead tonight you can probably assume I'm scum could you not?

[WhemeStar]

Omfg I'm never logging on to that account again.

[WhemeStar]

Sorry I'm noob

[WhemeStar]

He wouldn't be the only one not to know what Rolestopper is though.

[WhemeStar]

I believe in the normal set ups, which are balanced. There aren't usually both rolestopper (my role) and a vigi. So if there is a vigi, he can shoot me at night knowing I'm most likely scum.

[WhemeStar]

This is my first normal game so I'm going off of what froggy was saying

[WhemeStar]

can ya both get an avatar pls

[WhemeStar]

His avatar.... says avatar?

[WhemeStar]

Forgot to say this, but welcome to the game Alisae

[WhemeStar]

Lol

[WhemeStar]

My strongest read right now is Fire probably being a mod, but I know for sure I'm town.

[WhemeStar]

Froggy used to be my main town read, but I'm not sure anymore. Don't like how he calls people out for being scum and then completely 180 and calls them town. Could just be an active scum

[WhemeStar]

Maybe I just need to play with him more

[WhemeStar]

I'm happy with chaos.

VOTE: Chaos

[WhemeStar]

Was that to me?

[WhemeStar]

Oh

[WhemeStar]

I feel like Gerry not caring st all makes him town

[WhemeStar]

Idk why Gerry thinks I'm scum cause my reactions. What reactions

[WhemeStar]

Only reason I think he's town is preciously stated, but it is a weak reason. More of a gut read

[WhemeStar]

Froggy has your opinion changed on penguin slot

[WhemeStar]

Were all friends here regardless of alignment chill

[WhemeStar]

Hey froggy you seem to play a lot of normals and know the balanced set ups. What can hawk possibly be to confirm me as town rolestopper besides scum?

[WhemeStar]

Didn't froggy say if there's a cop it would mean I'm not town rolestopper

[WhemeStar]

Ok I don't want you to put his role, but him saying that doesn't mean he's scum and knows I'm town rolestopper

[WhemeStar]

Ive only played mafia on Starcraft

[WhemeStar]

Alisae is scum btw. He's asking questions to sound like he's scumhunting but he's mafia.

And okay. How long did you play on starcraft? Did they have roles like this place?

Some of the rules are the same, most are different, some are same power but different name. I played for about 1 and a half years. The Normal set up on it was 9-3-3 though with 9 town 3 mafia and 3 neutral roles.

[WhemeStar]

None of the roles are confirmed In town of salem, only thing town would know is that there are 2 protective and 2 investigate roles or something along those lines. I played town of Salem a couple of times and never got into it. Besides town of Salem Starcraft mafia is my only mafia expirence

[WhemeStar]

Post 1024^

[WhemeStar]

Lol

[WhemeStar]

So after I flip town you guys lynch chaos?

[WhemeStar]

you shouldn't

[WhemeStar]

My wagon has 0 resistance. Do you really think a scum would be lynched so easily

[WhemeStar]

Hawk how were you CC when you said previously that your role confirms mine

[WhemeStar]

Hawk how were you CC when you said previously that your role confirms mine

More PRs makes it more likely you are scum remember I just asked that for clarification.

AJ do you still want to lynch Lowell? if Lowell flips scum are you intent that I am partners with Lowell?

So you believe a soft claim rather then me claiming when I was L-2

[WhemeStar]

Wow I'm behind. Have to catch up, but from what I read so far froggy wants me to go on Chaos so he can use his ability to confirm me as town!?

[WhemeStar]

Holy you guys started posting a lot, @hawk I'm not comfortable revealing who I'm going to protect. Don't have any solid town reads

[WhemeStar]

What is sheep at

[WhemeStar]

I don't like hawks posts

[WhemeStar]

I don't like hawks posts

What don't you like?

Lemme get on computer in.5 mins and I'll tell you

[WhemeStar]

I read Hawk's vote post wrong. So I'm ok with him, went back in his ISO and I can see the reasons for why he voted some people, some of his votes have little reason to it though. For instance with his vote on me he had no reason to vote me, he said so himself. Why not stick to Gerry or Chaos? Also, seems like your vote on Gerry was more or less him being a sheep IMO.

Don't like how he asked me for my TR's. Its basically another way of asking who I am going to be on tonight.

These are not really strong reasons, so I'm fine with not voting Hawk. Just pointing out some of his posts I don't really like as much as others.

[WhemeStar]

Why Gerry? I don't see scum ever doing what he is doing

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: Sheep

[WhemeStar]

Is he ded

[WhemeStar]

What I'm already voting him

[WhemeStar]

If your VC was right he's ded

[WhemeStar]

Oh i see, Alisae already had sheep voted

[WhemeStar]

Oh i see, Alisae already had sheep voted

^^^Give this man a cookie

I like chocolate chip

[WhemeStar]

Wheme M&Ms or Skittles?

Skittles of course

[WhemeStar]

How long till deadline

[WhemeStar]

The frog killed the Sheep. Frog is now king of the animal kingdom

[WhemeStar]

Oh more competition the frog has to get rid of

[WhemeStar]

His avatar isn't a hawk though so I don't really count it

[WhemeStar]

Maybe I'll kill the hawk tonight

How can you kill hawk when he's scum

[WhemeStar]

Our mod is lazyyyyyyy

[WhemeStar]

Rip hawk

[WhemeStar]

Rip hawk

But if you're town you can save me from Vigi kill right ♡♡♡ lol

I like MnM's skittles are too sugary for my tastes.

You voted me so you must beg if you want me on you

[WhemeStar]

So are we just waiting for fire

[WhemeStar]

I'm confused again

[WhemeStar]

Well froggy, your the king now.

[WhemeStar]

Get em frog the D2 king

[WhemeStar]

I don't think so, Im pretty sure they would of tried to get the Lowell lynch as he was close to getting lynched too.

[WhemeStar]

In response to gerry

[WhemeStar]

id like you a lot better unknown if you had an avatar

[WhemeStar]

Froggy has no siblings, he is king.

[WhemeStar]

I'd also like to know if Chaos has anything on me since he did basically CC me.

[WhemeStar]

Wasn't everyone leaning scummish on your slot before you entered @ Ali

[WhemeStar]

Hey froggy, can you go into more detail with ECM's post, specifically your thoughts on him saying "Hawk's role being a universal backup, in conjunction with the other soft and hard claims, confirms town has myriad power roles this game. Typically a role stopper would be assigned to scum in this case."

Asking you because you seem to know the "balanced" set ups.

[WhemeStar]

I don't like EC's posts, but not comfortable voting him. Would have to read his ISO

[WhemeStar]

If I'm scum why would I kill hawk? If I was scum froggy would be ded.

[WhemeStar]

ECM, how does the Hawk kill result in me being scum. Are you saying if I'm town rolestopper then mafia would want to kill me?

[WhemeStar]

I don't like EC's posts, but not comfortable voting him. Would have to read his ISO

Why aren't you comfortable voting him?

Because I'm not yet comfortable calling him scum yet, its slowly changing though.

[WhemeStar]

Just went back and Tereta had the first vote on the sheep wagon that got him lynched. Don't like post #1573 at all.

VOTE: ECMitchell [/V

I also want to get chaos to weigh in on his Cc of me and why he's voting ECM

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: ECMitchell ffs l-2 btw

[WhemeStar]

Hate posting on phone

[WhemeStar]

Was it really the biggest wagon? At any point someone from the sheep wagon could of voted Lowell to put Lowell at L-1 and not Sheep

[WhemeStar]

thats a bad spot

[WhemeStar]

Lowell was at L-2 when sheep got lynched.

[WhemeStar]

Hey Whemestar, interesting avatar. Check user: Ajwf

Nuuuuu

[WhemeStar]

I like gerry's posts.

[WhemeStar]

Because his posts before didn't strike me as scummy. And then his posts after striked me as him being scum. He went downhill fast for me

[WhemeStar]

I think ECM or Chaos is scum, maybe both. But definitely one of them

[WhemeStar]

I don't see Lowell being scum with sheep being lynched.

[WhemeStar]

He also said Hawk, and Hawk turned out to be town

[WhemeStar]

Ec why is your vote on me

Do you really think it's me and Tereta scum?

[WhemeStar]

am i the only one confused af from all these unprovoked claims this game? like wtf

He could be trying to call chaos out on his BS of fake invest claim. IDK

[WhemeStar]

I'm just saying I don't really like Chaos's claim

[WhemeStar]

Can we just vote chaos and get this day over with ty

VOTE: Chaos

[WhemeStar]

I think Chaos's claim is fake. Why wouldn't he track me when he thinks I'm scum? He said my role is BS and didn't do anything to validate it.

[WhemeStar]

Can you explain why you would target ECM?

[WhemeStar]

How does this make any sense? You think your role doesn't go well with mine, so you decide not to track me if you think I'm scum? And then after not even checking me you still vote me because you still think our role don't work together???

[WhemeStar]

I think so to

[WhemeStar]

GGWP thanks firefapper for modding

[WhemeStar]

Btw town sorry for acting scummy and playing bad, at least I got their NK one night