[Game Over] Open 673 - Tit for Tat

[Sesq]

VOTE: Sesq

Is this for utterly demolishing that article you linked? lol

Anyway, RANDOM.ORG COMPELLS ME...

VOTE: Charloux

[Sesq]

@Intermission: No, I just like my rare (or slightly uncommon, in this case) Pepes.

Your starting strategy is interesting and I might rip it off in future games.

[Sesq]

VOTE: Sesq

Is this for utterly demolishing that article you linked? lol

You're the only person I recognize. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

After 6 years on the site?

Ah well.

[Sesq]

Hi Everyone,

VOTE: Sesq

Is this for utterly demolishing that article you linked? lol

Anyway, RANDOM.ORG COMPELLS ME...

VOTE: Charloux

I find it interesting you felt the need to highlight your first vote during the RVS as, indeed, random.

I was not highlighting that it was random, but how.

[Sesq]

In these early stages everyone's desperate for a bone to knaw.

[Sesq]

I'm just a little more confident in your reads? and like, i'm up for syncing with you in a bit.

do you/does anyone have any feels about charl? especially the reaction to my rvs?

It's something, don't really know what to make of it.

[Sesq]

Baaaaa

Vote: Intermission

I could also lynch Sesq (for coming across stilted to me, which, to stave off the inevitable question - is also how Intermission feels.)

I like Siblings and Jester for town.

I approach games like a new social situation; start out civil and gradually become more comfortable.

Then the fun starts.

Sesq - I'd advocate you go look at his current iso and just ask yourself what real info he's offered about himself thus far, and what actual opinion about anything game relevant he's made (my opinion would be zip and zilch for both). The play feels fake and guarded, and not like he wants to solve anything.

It's 3 pages in. God damn, I give a readslist day 3 and I get scumread, I wait for a while and get scumread. Also:



Pronouns. Read them.

Now onto people reading, which is as such:

Cooperative Sheep: Push on me for not doing anything, which is weird considering as it was only page four and continues to vote for me. Can't read this woman.

Charloux: Seems to be legitimately interacting in the game. I like what I'm hearing, though the stingy votes is minorly off-putting.

Intermission: Looks town on the surface, I guess, but I have a minor gut feel he might be scum. I don't know.

ECMitchell: Weird logic as pointed out by SQ, don't know what to say.

Transcend: Shooting out early reads, not justifying them, but at this point it doesn't look like there's ulterior motives, so no issues.

If they aren't listed I have nothing useful to say about them.

PEDIT: Votes are votes, usually works the same as legit votes

[Sesq]

VOTE: Sesq

Serious vote

If it's serious it requires some serious evidence. Present it, please.

[Sesq]

Usually "i want everyone to sheep me" is a bad thing to tell me but you've provided a good case

VOTE: Cooperative Sheep

[Sesq]

@Sesq - Were you intentionally not offering reads to avoid suspicion on you like the last time you mentioned? Or was there another goal?

I skipped it because I didn't have any strong reads on anyone, and if you look at that list I only had things to say about 5 people.

It's 3 pages in. God damn, I give a readslist day 3 and I get scumread, I wait for a while and get scumread.

I particularly liked this post, especially the bold, which came off as a comfortable and natural reaction to me.

Later tonight I will be going through some players' ISO and share what more I can. I hoped this game would have started picking up speed by now.

Really? Looks more like slightly annoyed scum in hindsight.

Maybe it's not Siblings we should look at for starting the wagon, but those who jumped on without much thought. That appears to be Sesq and Transcend. Can you two provide more explanation?

Their early read on me seemed to come from nowhere, as I was among an amount of people who hadn't done anything. In hindsight it isn't a very strong justification for a vote and he seems to be interacting with me pretty well, so I'm considering unvoting him, but I also want to see what added pressure will do.

Sesq's posted nothing of value and his readlist's a pile of made-up crap. He takes no definitive stances and keeps fence sitting hardcore. His reason to jump on the wagon is sketchy at best.

Posted nothing of value? What about projectmatt or Tucan Safe? How does my readslist appear to be made-up? If it was a ploy to look busy I probably would have put more than 41.666...% of the people in-game on it. I'm not taking definitive stances because it's page 5 and I'm a person who naturally approaches things skeptically. I agree that the wagon-jump wasn't as well though-out in hindsight, but my reasoning was "hey look, there's one person i have a slight scumread on, better than none, i'm voting i guess".

Apologies. Didn't realize, since I've seen others regularly refer to other games and it's what I'm used to. Distinction must be current games versus completed ones, yes?

The rule is don't talk about or refer to ongoing games.

Period.

Didn't remember that. Thanks for potentially inadvertently saving me from making serious slip-ups

[Sesq]

AI = Alignment Indicative, NAI = Non-alignment indicative

[Sesq]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL sheep just scumslipped. Subconsciously voted himself because he knows he's scum.

-Frog

this is a bullshit point

also sheep's reaction is pretty fine, or at least better than your push after catching up. While that wasn't a good vote, your push is looking more and more forced + scummy by the minute UNVOTE: Sheep

[Sesq]

Calm down children, no need to get worked up.

[Sesq]

yellowbloc = no idea or i refuse to sort right now

i nailed sesq at first then she tricked me in our first game >:(

Yeah, my strategy then was just to totally ignore my partners and pretend like i'm a townsperson, which was more or less derived from me wanting to be a townsperson.

[Sesq]

"fwiw mds" what is this esperanto shit

anyway i'm wondering why you have me in yellow even though you townread me, is yellow nulltown now?

[Sesq]

Sorry. Here's some stuff as I go through the game and read it again.

Sesq's first post #17 comes off as a little bit nervous about being voted and a bit insecure.

TheJester is probably town for #18, as his questioning mirrored a similar thought I had. (It's been so long since I've played on this website that I don't remember how to link specific posts - sorry.)

Intermission is probably town.

My vote on ECMitchell wasn't completely RVS - I thought his introductory post was worded in a really awkward and pointing-fingers way. In particular, it felt like his post #39 was framed in such a way that set him up to be able to attack a lot of different people without actually committing to any scum-reads. That said though, his play for the rest of the day hasn't actually had scumtelling at all, and I liked his unvote on Intermission. I think I digress on my SR on him.

CooperativeSheep's #76 is bad.

CooperativeSheep's #104 is REALLY bad. Backing down from voting Intermission after he sees that the pressure on Intermission is fading,

Townlean on Siblings Quarrel for picking up on the same thing, but that's a shallow reason, so I'm not confident.

Intermission's vote on Transcend is stupid, but probably town-stupid.

Charloux's questions in #161 seem kind of forced.

Sesq's #171 is still crazy insecure and worried about being voted. Focused on defending himself as opposed to looking for mafia.

Siblings VS Sheep has Sheep looking a lot worse.

EC is town - I lied about my earlier read.

Siblings,

why am I in your townbloc in #231 when at the time I had contributed literally nothing?

And I'm caught up. Basically, my reads are:

Sheep/Sesq/Charloux are my current scum leans.

TheJester/ECMitchell/Transcend/Intermission/Siblings all lean town, but I'm willing to bet that some of my reads are wrong.

I want Sheep lynched today, but I'm not currently willing to hammer him because he's at L-1. I'll wait.

Unvote

I don't appreciate your tone... policing. I wasn't nervous at all, he didn't have a strong case. This game isn't really going many places, as everything still seems to be centered around sheep/sibs. That said, this wagon is moving way too fucking fast, and I'm 90% sure there is 1 scum on the CS wagon right now. If he's town this is a really good opportunity for scum to get by, cus hey, everyone's doing it, and if he is scum there's probably some bussers.

Transcend's lolhammer suggestion has me thinking a bit.

[Sesq]

in what way

because of the general quickness of the wagon it looks kinda scummish

[Sesq]

@sesq - i don't understand how you can be opposed to the a) game not going many places and b) a quick moving wagon?

also, 'if he's town, scum have an opportunity' seems like a really basic statement dressed up as something it isn't.

if he's scum, is scum still on the wagon? who's bussing?

The more wagons and people participating, the more likely you are to be able to pick out the scum. Also, the lack of a counterwagon here really sounds of this being a wagon on town, as if it were on scum I'd expect there to be a counter. With that and the rate at which his wagon picked up, with very little opposition just feels extremely suspicious and I'm definitely willing to bet there's scum on his wagon.

[Sesq]

Who are the mafia on this wagon? Be specific.

I don't know, I'm just saying if this guy townflips I'm going to be suspicious of those on his wagon. I really don't have any specific scumreads, I don't have enough information to make a conclusion about goddamn near anyone.

[Sesq]

ew. literally, ew.

you don't have reads? how can you not have scum reads? and then if he flips town, to go into tomorrow with vague scum reads on 'his wagon', which are
Charloux, Siblings Quarrel, Transcend, Bellaphant, Intermission, projectmat
(scumish, town, town, town, scumish, idek)

just seems really week and super fake.

it's making me wonder if we're even on the right track here.

What are you gonna do to get that information?

Look at what they do, make observations and persuade them on things that seem suspicious.

I feel like sesq is confident of a town!flip and is setting up shitty reasons to have 'reads' tomorrow.

(because she's scum, obvs)

:S

no, because there's no counter-wagon. Read, please.


Also, shouldn't it be noted that Sheep's wagon got started on a mildly shitty vote on me?

[Sesq]

Yes, let's lynch Plague tomorrow.

Expecting a townflip here.

[Sesq]

Who are the mafia on this wagon? Be specific.

I don't know, I'm just saying if this guy townflips I'm going to be suspicious of those on his wagon. I really don't have any specific scumreads, I don't have enough information to make a conclusion about goddamn near anyone.

Lol, what an absolute trash post. You don't get to be "suspicious of everyone on the wagon" but say that you have no idea who the mafia is.

Regardless of flip, Sesq is scum.

I'm saying that I don't have any strong reads right now and that this guy flipping town would cause me to pay attention to some of the people on this wagon, based on their involvement.

Not that hard to understand.

What is it with people this game making definitive scumclaims on weak evidence?

[Sesq]

Well, that was a surprising flip, and surprising NK's, and I really have no idea who to go for right now. As for stuff regarding my potential bussing, I'll throw out Mini Normal 1857, in which I was scum and bussing a ton. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69351

I don't know if this gets me town or scum points but like, more info for town the better, definitely.

[Sesq]

No read explanations, not townread by me.

VOTE: Transcend

[Sesq]

I don't like how he has been ran up to L-1 so easily, at least can someone unvote him in case someone decides to hammer him.

On it.

UNVOTE: Transcend

[Sesq]

How about you don't run up blatant town while he's sleeping yea

Nothing to support that claim

[Sesq]

Transcend's lolhammer suggestion has me thinking a bit.

in what way

because of the general quickness of the wagon it looks kinda scummish

Question for Sesq: Was this suspicion dependent on Cooperative Sheep flipping town? The wagon led to a scum lynch, so the speed of the wagon isn't much of a scum tell in hindsight, but you've still voted Transcend since the start of the new day. I don't see other reasons you shared to be suspicious of Transcend other than this—what still seems scummy about him to you?

Good point, actually. His play here kinda matches up with a prior bit of town performance I had from him (random and irrational).

UNVOTE:

It would be trivial if it didn't appear to be your entire reason for hounding me all game.

This really hits me as scum and I don't know why.

[Sesq]

It would be trivial if it didn't appear to be your entire reason for hounding me all game.

This really hits me as scum and I don't know why.

[Sesq]

inter, it's not about reads, it's about pushes. I don't see you actually scum hunting.

@sesq, yesterday you told me your reads today would be suspicious of the sheep wagon - which flipped scum. what are your reads now?

Definitely not that, that's for sure

[Sesq]

inter, it's not about reads, it's about pushes. I don't see you actually scum hunting.

@sesq, yesterday you told me your reads today would be suspicious of the sheep wagon - which flipped scum. what are your reads now?

Definitely not that, that's for sure

errrrr

then why did you insta vote me if you weren't suspicious of anyone on the wagon?

Because of your "SOMEONE LOLHAMMER HIM" attitude which ECM debunked, hence my unvote on you.

[Sesq]

I still think that Sesq is almost definitely scum. His play throughout this entire game has been, in my opinion, really absurdly scummy and not based on logic that is sound or consistent.

In what way? I would agree I'm inconsistent, I really haven't been able to discern much out of this game so far, town or scum, but your latest posts seems to def be towny. Could you provide examples of these accusations?

[Sesq]

Sesq are you satsfied with matt's defense?
Have any of your reads evolved into something meaningful?

Yes and not really

[Sesq]

I think i noticed something, but would be anti-town to say it.

VOTE: Charloux

[Sesq]

Sesq, Charloux is an uncountered Backup claim.

Charloux, you shouldn't be letting ANYONE dictate your vote when you're the only one in the clear. Let your town reads influence you, sure, but don't just blindly throw your vote to others.

I'm out celebrating Valentine's. As soon as I can I will follow up with some thoughts on Kop and Bellaphant.

Where was the claim?

[Sesq]

I have another game I'm paying more attention to, but this was indeed my flaw.

[Sesq]

I don't like how Sesq called Matt towny, it's almost like appealing to his emotion after Matt is suspecting him.

VOTE: Sesq

No, it was because they went from barely posting to getting out a well-reasoned response.

[Sesq]

Charloux, can you tell me your reads on Sesq, Intermission, and projectmatt? That block is where I'm looking to lynch within today. Sesq has been playing an incredibly passive game, seemingly skimming past and not paying attention to any posts that don't mention her name. She was also inconsistent with her voting logic, although she was able to own up to it and made corrections at least.

Intermission has been playing cautiously and as far as I can tell only has the single scum read against Transcend. I've gotten newbie tells more than anything else, but I do find it odd how he suddenly goes quiet when discussion begins to revolve around him. Intermission, who else is scum with Transcend in your eyes?

I'm now a tad less comfortable voting for projectmatt. I like seeing he still town reads those who apply pressure on him or who make posts he finds generally odd; he's not flip flopping or quick to accuse. That's admittedly sometimes a sign of scum trying to not make enemies, but projectmatt hasn't hidden in the slightest his desire to lynch Sesq.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sesq

The reason I'm playing passively is because I play slowly and don't really like voting for people unless I have a solid case. I've been finding it generally hard to place any solid reads, as there isn't really as much meat to this game than I'm used to. I am kinda getting more of a feel for things now, and I might look through some ISOs later so I can actually help more.

[Sesq]

I see! Would you mind sharing your solid case on your current vote? Also, you voted for Transcend cuz of your own scum read on him, i would like to hear about that as well a little.

I'm currently voting you because of your unwillingness to share information because it might make you look anti-town. If I were town I really wouldn't give a shit how it appeared, but actually want to point out the truth. Also your claim earlier was awkward and you were implying the backup jailer dying had any affect on your role (it didnt).

So, mostly policy/pressure vote.

As for my vote on Transcend, it was initially due to his wanting to hammer cs badly, which I picked up as scum on, but then EC pointed out that it made no sense for scum to want people to hammer their fellow scum, so I unvoted. Play so far also matches up with an earlier game with him which he was town in, albeit a bit more agressive.

[Sesq]

If you don't cc me I am conftown, your current vote is essentially a scumclaim in that sense.

What the hell does this even mean?

[Sesq]

Rather than matt, sesq should be killed by the vig. I don't want someone who doesn't know what a confirmed PR is anywhere near lylo. The weight of these words should be that much stronger because someone unskilled as me is saying them.

This person wants to kill me because i'm stupid. Not because I'm scummy, but because I'm stupid.

Yeah, this vote is no longer just about policy.

[Sesq]

You want to lynch me, who claimed a PR that is part of the setup and hasn't been counter claimed. Regardless of your alignment, that's a bad move Sesq. I don't even know what it is you want to accomplish by "pushing" me.

Well, this reaction for one.

Also, what does cc mean

[Sesq]

I claimed to be a backup rolecop. If you are that role, you will know that i am lying about it and you would then counter claim me, or cc for short.

Or I can not be that and just think you're bullshitting, however, I'm pretty sure someone would have cc'd by now, so *shrug*

Your reactions have still sat with me very wrong

PEDIT: Yes, I know.

[Sesq]

Sesq i don't think a named townie would hide. back up role cop will get no guilties anymore.

Good point.

UNVOTE:

[Sesq]

The two peoplle i want to lynch are basically absent, sesq doesn't know what a counter claim is and we have no cohesion.

scum are prolly super happy right now. Can we decide on a lynch, work out a jk for tonight and just get moving? we started so well, guys.

I knew what counter-claims were, just not the abbreviation. I'm new.

[Sesq]

now i can be se