Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[havingfitz]

Been off the net all day. Should be caught up and posting nlt tomorrow morning.

[havingfitz]

Not a big weekend poster (unless time permits and the game dictates it) but I don't want to wait until Tuesday to chime in so...

I got a laugh out of Ultimate's post 17. Not saying it doesn't have merit...but it was humorous.

Annnd wgeurts has a completely different response to Ultimate's post 17.

/Day 0

Hello MOI...long time no see. I am in sync with almost everything you say in post 27.

Honestly the heavy evaluation of P1 by you [MOI] makes me actually think you're trying too hard if you want to know honestly. But I've never played nightless so it may just be the setup changing the pace of the game.

How would this setup change the pace of the game and how would the pace of the game matter to MOI's lone post so far in the game?

wrt post 29...doom...have any of your games on mafia had a scum wincon that did not include having an equal number of mafia to town?

wgeurt...how new is doomfeathers to mafia? Looks like he has ~5 games on site. Does he have any experience elsewhere?

@wgeurts again...it seemed like you were kind of defending doom from Magna's suspicions towards him but as soon as doom votes you...it's game on with a vote back on him. So other than doom voting you...why are you voting doom?

Liking Hawk for town as of post 44.

smh in agreement with MOI's post 46. Liking MOI for town.

wrt post 57....sesq. Is your "official" vote on doom an RVS vote?

end of page three....off to breakfast and stuff. Will try to get back in here today and finish catching up.

[havingfitz]

Catching up continued from page 4.

Not sure I like lucca's analysis of MOI's first post. Also....less experienced players can be scum too.

Like Hawk's post 103. His observation on Doom.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Lucca....is your Revan vote just to pressure for more content or do you also have reasons to suspect? Seems like I recall you questioning a few things on Revan earlier in my catchup.

Don't care for Sesq's post 132. A lot of differing opinions from mine.

@FC...why would you consider FOSing someone whose scum hunting seems town to you? (post 133)

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

@ Sesq wrt post 161. Are you saying I am misrepping you?

Near end of page seven. Feeling town vibe from Doom. Not so from Sesq.

...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

I like UD's post 243. Town reading the hydra.

@Revan wrt post 284....almost. Holiday = weekend = RL>Mafia.

I've read up through post 299. I want to look a few more things over before I give my reads and put down my vote. I should be able to get to that early tomorrow. Apologies for the stream of consciousness catch up...the game starting right at the start of a busy 4 day weekend for me did not help. I'll engage more after today.

[havingfitz]

Mod...does the mozamis vote on Sesq in Post 288 not meet your voting criteria?

Sesq...your last two votes (on mozamis and Revan) have not counted because you did not put them on unique lines like you have already acknowledged being told by the mod. Why do you keep making votes that do not count?

Have you not noticed that your vote is still on FC? Do you still suspect FC?

Also...wrt Post 301...I think you messed up your reply to my question. It looks like you are saying you were misrepping me. FFS...can you pay attention to what you post? You say here that you intended to vote Doom for LAMIST. Your initial vote for Doom came immediately after his LAMIST post but you only mention that your vote on him is because he was shading you (I assume for the cat comment he made about you). Which seemed pretty RVS-ish. All you say when you make your vote on Doom official is that you are making your earlier vote official. No mention of LAMIST. Even when MOI asks you about it. You only mention LAMIST slightly in your Post 130 and no mention of it being why you are voting Doom...until you accuse me of misrepping you on it.

@MOI

...thank you for the [302=post]posting tutorial[::post//}. I was just a bit more focused on getting caught up than making things pretty. It's not the norm for me.

@Superhans....what do you mean with the scum works as a team comment when you say you do not understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player? Whether the kill was made on behalf of the day vigger or one of the goons makes no difference. The fact is Hawk was killed. If there is a way of determining who might have been threatened by Hawk's existence that could point to someone...ANYONE...on the scum team.

@Superhans....if you don't understand my posts ask a question. My catch up was me commenting on things I saw as I saw them. The Hawk kill came as a surprise to me when I saw it. Not sure how my reaction is obnoxious. Also...do you consider obnoxious scummy? And I could care less if you find me verbose or annoying to read. Do you find those traits scummy or are you just doing what you accuse me of?

@Superhans....you do not think the Hawk DK was a reaction to panic but you do think the DK had definite intent. Are you saying those things are mutually exclusive?

@Doom....I disagree. How does scum help promote mislynches if they do not voice suspicions on the mislynch target? Scum absolutely need to suspect others. WRT FC...I guess you commented but that was some f'd up content to be giving him credit for.

As for saying I have faulty reasoning wrt your DK online hunting techniques...what do you consider faulty about what I said? And how is "poor reasoning" not scummy? If mafia were able to make sound logically reasoned cases they would be extremely hard to find. But having to make shit up all the time produces plenty of instances of poor reasoning by scum. So you saying it isn't is just wrong. Also...to nitpick a bit...I do not "claim" you are using "poor reasoning." Even though I do think that is the case. If you want to say you think I am inferring something that would be fine but don't attribute comments to me that I did not in fact make. Thanks.

@Revan....I've made two catch up posts where I am making observations. Other than stating a few players I think are town...what fence sitting do you see me doing? Also...consider me caught up. Pressure away. And could you please explain why you have me in your two out of three scum pool? Make that two of four....or is it three of four????

@Doom...."unless we can hit the shooter let's lynch Sesq today." So Sesq is for sure not the shooter? Gaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh

@Doom....And once more...how has it been determined that Sesq is not the killer? If I missed something in my catch up that shows sound rationale for Sesq being excluded from dayvig status could you (or anyone) please link me to it?

Here's where I am seeing people att:
Town leaning - Magna, UD,
Slightly less town leaning - wgeurts, lucca
Need to look over more - Superhans
Suspect a little - Doom and ....................... mozamis
Suspect a lot - Sesq, FC, Revan

VOTE: Friendly Computer

Revan would be my next choice. Sesq gets a bit of a bye today from me for at least being somewhat active.

P.edit...I see others have since commented on the voting issues but I'll keep my comments despite it.

[havingfitz]

As for that early stuff, I've already explained it a million times. I'll answer when someone asks something new.

I wasn't asking anything. Just pointing out something that I don't like.

[havingfitz]

Super answer my question.

Revan answer my question.

[havingfitz]

"the thing that makes me pause about Sesq lynch is that there is zero resistance."

Shouldn't that make everyone pause?

Seriously.

There is zero resistance.

I wouldn't say zero resistence....

I think you're suffering from tunnel vision Doomfeather, put Sesqs behaviour into perspective.

lynching FC would be a much much better option that lynching Sesq based on the type of content that Sesq produces.

Currently nulltownreading Sesq and Magna.

Town Lean: Sesq

I'm willing to lean town on sesq.

[havingfitz]

Unofficial VC by my count:
Friend has 4 votes (L-2) - havingfitz, Magna, doomfeathers, wgeurts
Revan has 2 votes - Superhans, Sesq
Superhans has 2 votes - lucca, Revan
Sesq has 2 votes - UD, mozamis

Votes aren't listed in the order they were made.

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Friend Computer

Think this is L-1

Superhans is scummy, anyone trying to divert us off the Sesq/FC wagons with WIFOM nonsense is scummy.

Uh....nope...that was hammer. Mod had (4/7) showing but also clearly stated it was 6 to lynch (since there are 11 of us left). Your vote makes 6.

[havingfitz]

Mod...when you post your vote counts could you add a line for those not voting?

I knew there was a player not on any EOD1 wagons but couldn't remember who (it was FC btw).

Sucks that FC was town. Glad he took out lynchbait Sesq though. But sucks that Sesq was town. (you said "butt sucks"..hehe...hehe -Beavis)

As for D2...I lean towards there not being a lot of scum support for the FC lynch. He was a weak lurky player who had good points made against him. The same with Sesq. So while it sucks they were both town...at least we got rid of some of the low hanging fruit. Point being though...I do not think scum would have had to put a lot of effort into support FC's lynch. I could see there 0-1 on the mislynch. I.e. 2-3 off the mislynch.

All this off the top of my head so I want to go back over D1 to see where I want my vote to go today.

And as usual...my weekend posting will be limited so it might be tomorrow or Monday before I get a chance to apply a closer look.

p.edit.

Revan...can you give some reasoning too for your Superhans vote? Do the two town flips effect your read on him at all?

Also...Superhans....would you mind if I just called you Hans?

[havingfitz]

And fitz’s post right before this puts him squarely on my radar for “Man, it sucks that FC and Sesq were Town”

How is saying what I was feeling...as I assume several people feel...forced town?

I actually thought someone might use that comment as a negative (I can't recall the name of the tell) but I'm surprised it's you. If you're town your radar needs calibrated.

[havingfitz]

Doom...you've claimed to have went for reaction tests at least twice now. Do you do that a lot and has it ever paid dividends for you?

Also...can you explain why you say Magna is valuable to town?

[havingfitz]

(is Fitz okay?)

Sure.

[havingfitz]

First thing I have done in my re-read was to look over Hawk's ISO. Because now that we know both FC and Sesq were Town I wanted to see where his suspicions lay. Based on his ISO I'd say the strongest candidates just are Moz (149) and Doom (multiple votes during the Day). Nothing I'd base a case on but a good reminder.

Curious...were there any others you noticed potentially benefitting from the Hawk dayvig?

I actually thought someone might use that comment as a negative (I can't recall the name of the tell) but I'm surprised it's you. If you're town your radar needs calibrated.

It is a variant on the "Congratulate the Doc" tell - your reaction was effectively "Man that was bad for Town" which is understood. It is superfluous (obviously both players being Town is bad for Town) that only serves to show how LAMIST your feelings are.

That tell name didn't sound familiar so I had to look. It's also called the "Wow that sucks" tell. Whatever the name...I knew that sort of opening comment was considered scummy by some but I wasn't too concerned because:

1) I wasn't NOT going to say what I was thinking because of it, and
2) I was curious if anyone would make a big deal out of it.

Do you, MOI, put a lot of credence in well-known standard tells?
Have there been any other tells that have caught your eye? WRT the one you accuse me of...it seems like a few other people lamented the D1/N1 outcome as well. Do you find those comments a negative also?

Your followup at 541 furthers my suspicion. You attempted to buddy up to me pretty hard Day 1 (yes, I noticed) but the second I look askance at you there is an undercurrent of "Hmmm, MoI could be scum" in your posting.

By buddying you "pretty hard" do you mean my initial catch up post were I state agreement with two of your early posts (27 or 46, or saying I like you for town?
Was I buddying Hawk too in that same post when I said I thought he was town?

Or perhaps in my continuation catchup post when I grumble over lucca's assessment of your post 27 that I had just previously stated agreement with? Was that buddying on top of buddying?

Surely you didn't see my [sarcasm]postquotefail response[/sarcasm] to you in Post 380 as buddying?

I'm not seeing any "pretty hard" buddying towards you but I'm guessing that's another standard tell you've uncovered towards me. I'll remember if I'm ever scum (or town for that matter) in a game with you to not agree with anything you say.
Do you see anyone else buddying you "pretty hard." Ex. Doom w/"valuable to town" or Revan w/"you'd be a mislynch" to paraphrase two just from memory.

As for the undercurrent you refer to...if FC and Sesq had flipped town and one of them was the mafia's dayvig I'd have anointed you the Mayor of Towny Town. But as they did not...you are most certainly in the "could be scum" category. Along with everyone else not named havingfitz. Also...my post 541 which you link to above with your concerns is not a negative towards you in any way. It is merely trying to understand Doom's comment that you are "valuable to town." Aren't you curious why he would say that given your curiosity in the similar comments made here:

Alright doom is town, and you'll have to lynch me before I tolerate someone going after him.

Please elaborate on why you feel Doom is "so Town" based on those posts / interactions.

This actually looks quite town to me. It's bold, it's out here, it's not blending in.

Please elaborate what about an "Here's an L-1, oops hammer" vote by UD looks quite Town.

I mean...I love being townread as much as the next person but if you are going to call someone out for thinking you were town (i.e. me)...why not question everyone who does so?

[havingfitz]

I don't remember posting more than one reaction test. Hm.

I misspoke. Either I was confusing early game gambits from a different game or I was thinking about your "LAMIST" post on page one. Which was not a gambit. Disregard.

In my view, wgeurts and MagnaofIllusion are like the town leaders. They appear to be more experienced by their play, and are the main scumhunters. It's hard to explain fully. It's similar to the "town by activity" tell, but moreso.

So for no solid alignment indicative reason. Ok.

It sure seems that you put a lot of thought into figuring out whether people would think your post was scummy.

I think about what I post. If I cared whether people thought a comment I made would seem scummy...I wouldn't make the comment to begin with. I

was

curious if anyone would.

I breadcrumbed.

That's as bad a breadcrumb as I have ever seen. No...it is the worst I've seen.

------------------------------------------------

Curious...were there any others you noticed potentially benefitting from the Hawk dayvig?

First off why is it curious? Second – why didn’t you look for yourself?

It isn't curious, I was curious. I didn't look myself because I was reading on my phone at the time and didn't feel like that hassle. You said Moz and wgeurts were the "strongest candidates" which made it seem like there were other...less strong candidates. Which was where my curiosity was.

Do you, MOI, put a lot of credence in well-known standard tells?

Where do you see that I’m putting “a lot of credence” in the tell?

And the fact that the tell is well known doesn’t make it something to be immediately dismissed. If it wasn’t something viable it would never have gotten to the well known stage in the first place.

I didn't say you

were

putting a lot of credence in standard tells...I was asking you

if

you did.

I mean...I love being townread as much as the next person but if you are going to call someone out for thinking you were town (i.e. me)...why not question everyone who does so?

I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your

immediate agreement with many of my posts

(that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

The "immediate" was a single catch up that referred to two (

many?

) of your posts. I think your buddy meter has a hair trigger. It feels like you are trying to shade events that have no reason to be shaded. I'm not going to look but I would be surprised if in any of our past games I did not agt some point agree with something you may have said.

-----------------------------------------------

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

How do you think town should play, MOI,
How do you think town should play, Fitz

I don't see the point in these questions. The first one requires effort I see no return on and the second is just...worthless.

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

no.

[havingfitz]

No value in explicitly stating the difference in your idea of what town play should be?
You being serious right now?

Correct x 2.
I'll have a go for you though and please tell me how it helps you in this game.

My idea of what town play should be - town should be as transparent, honest and consistent as possible and try their best to find/lynch scum.

[havingfitz]

Mod....

Is wgeurts on secret v/la? Almost 4 days since his last post.

[havingfitz]

you not going back to look at Hawk’s ISO (which is criminally short) was troubling to me.

I hadn't ISO'd him but I had considered his vote targets: Revan, Doom and Sesq. Revan was just RVS afaict and Sesq was sorted out by FC. So Doom was still on my radar. Just not sure how much weight DVA is worth.

[havingfitz]

Yes...but I would assuuuuume scum using half their kill options so early on D1, or even in the game period, would be more likely due to oh shit defense mode than they would because so and so doesn't like me.

I don't think the DV was to reset the vote count (especially in flip hindsight) because if it was...scum could have presumably got rid of potentially stronger threats then a relatively newer player like Hawk.

So imo Hawk was the problem. Just not sure what getting rid of him answered.

[havingfitz]

I'm trying to look things over today but lack of motivation combined with busy day = not.

I'll try to get to some isos tonight/tomorrow and vote accordingly.

[havingfitz]

Wth is that quote for Hans?

Not sure why moz is being defeatist.
Revan v/la seems convenient given his already lack of content.

[havingfitz]

Also Hans.....

Why did you change your avatar mid game? I keep thinking a new player has joined.

It doesn't help that there are other players on this site using the same avatar.

Plus the big doofy head seemed like a good fit (no offense intended).

[havingfitz]

Why is this relative to determining Hans’ alignment at all?

It isn't at all. Did you think it was?

I dislike that dancing cow icon, it's in all my games it seems, and was sharing my thoughts on his avatar switch.

[havingfitz]

why am i a doofy head?

Say it to my large green pickle face.

You aren't...your previous avatar was.

[havingfitz]

Wth is that quote for Hans?

Not sure why moz is being defeatist.
Revan v/la seems convenient given his already lack of content.

He's got exams omg.

I don't doubt that he does. Sometimes v/LAs come at inconvenient times...unless you are providing the content promised before them...then they're convenient.

What's your read on Revan today?
Are you caught up in the game? Why no vote? Did yesterday's flips effect your read on Revan or anyone else?

[havingfitz]

U got any reads that aren't trash
@Fitz?

Which of my reads are trash?
While we're on the subject of reads....what are yours?
You seem to be suspect of Revan but you haven't done much about it.

[havingfitz]

Want to add that this is also a really easy comment to make and I see this is fluff posting.
Do you scum read Revan? If so y?

Do you really want to compare ISOs for fluff?

I'm still figuring out my thoughts for today. At the very least Revan is a residual suspect from my reads yesterday.

Have you finished your analysis of my and MOI's town play/games?

[havingfitz]

Offline all day tomorrow....will try to post over the weekend but just to be safe...

v/LA until Monday, 30 Jan.

[havingfitz]

3 day weekends/vla's are grrrrrrrrreat!
Catching up in 3 games not so much.

Will catch up in here today/asap.

[havingfitz]

My eoD1 suspicions are located at the bottom of Post 380.

I will say I did not care for the UD hammer. I suppose the hammer was going to happen no matter what but the fact it was supposedly accidental gives UD a little less flak then if it had been a definite hammer on town.

Spoiler: --------------Day 2-------------

Page 21:

MOI gives me crap about my entrance to D2.

Wgeurts does a similar lamentation post and promises content.

Wgeurts proclaims Doom town. I hate when people do this. If they are town they should not be this sure of another players alignment.

Why so sure wgeurts?

Revan gives a flippant response to my question about his Hans vote.

Doom does a similar lamentation post. Offers opinion that game will suck if MOI is somehow scum (why can't he be scum Doom?). Gives sane assessment of the Sesq vengekill.

Wgeurts tells Doom he would have venge-killed Revan instead of Sesq.

Doom offers up possibility that MOI could be scum more so than wgeurts.

moz didn't like my D2 post. I know too much. He votes me and apologizes to Sesq.

Doom puts down his masterfully breadcrumbed fake vote on MOI. (mmhmm).

moz immediately comes to "very fucking town" MOI's defense.

Lucca wifom town reads MOI for his D1 mislynch theory. Agrees with me about the FC wagon but shades me for it. ?? Makes some good points IMO wrt UD.

Page 22:

moz states a scum pool of: UD, Lucca, Hans, Revan and Fitz. (I object to the Lucca and Fitz reads btw) By subtraction...this means the moz town pool is: MOI, Doom, wgeurts and moz.

moz says UD is actually null town for Post 491. wtf? So moz scum pool is now Lucca, Hans, Revan and Fitz. (I object to the Lucca and Fitz reads btw) Wait...lucca is townish...so moz s.pool = Hans, Revan and Fitz.

moz says my ISO is quite strong.... So less sure of me as scum. Leaving Hans and Revan (the super bussers?) and someone not in his pool of three?

Revan points out the bussing conundrum he would present if paired with Hans. (So?)

UD shades wgeurts a little. Just a teensy bit. Nothing to be alarmed about.....

Hans questions the moz confident townread on Doom. Good question.

Good UD posting.

Oh darn... the Doom MOI vote gambit didn't work out. And also...have some shade wgeurts.

UD thinking Revan is good scum candidate.

@Revan....

why is attacking your attacker a bad thing if you think your attacker is scum?

Page 23:

moz backtracks on his "confirmed town" sentiments towards Doom when questioned on it. Oh...and MOI is awesome town too. coughcoughbuddybuddybuddycough

moz can't provide counter to MOI's tr on Hans.

@moz...wouldn't the aversion to being the hammer on a mislynch be a good reason for scum to accidentally hammer? smh

@moz...you say you think Revan is scum but you have yet to put a vote on Revan up to this point in the game. ????????

@moz...I don't even know what you are trying to say here....perhaps it will be addressed later in my re-read.

@moz...

why does this scenario where you conclude that Hans is scum not also work the other way and come to the conclusion Revan is scum?

Doom votes me and reveals worst breadcrumb in MS history.

Hans starts the meta dialogue with me and MOI. zzzzzzzzz

moz wants to know if MOI is being a twat.

Page 24:

Good UD posting. Suspects Revan and moz.

Revan...because he's not townreading you. Duh. Looking forward to your analysis.

wgeurts sighting...sans content.

moz accuses Hans of AtE (not seeing it) and asks for opinions on Hans and MoI (too bad there is not a player named Frans in this game).
Hans on D1 seemed like lynchbait (along with FC and perhaps Sesq). On D1 I don't mind so much getting it wrong to eliminate a weak player who is also a bit suspect (i.e. FC)....but I think Hans has been posting better since D1 and atm I lean town towards him. Same lean atm with MOI. He went to a lot of trouble to present his suspicions towards people on D1 (though results were not good) and has been fairly active and pushed his suspects. That is typically townish behavior IMO. Though also IMO is that I suspect MOI is a capable enough player to try and look the same way when he is scum. And why is he still in the game? Why a Hawk DV over a more experienced player...especially one putting in a lot of effort like MOI is. So my gut says MOI is town but my paranoia says he could be scum playing people like a fiddle. I would not vote either of them today. Also and OBTW...I do not think I would consider voting lucca today and prooooooooooooooooobably not wgeurts either. Though D1 wgeurts was more town IMO than D2 wgeurts has been iirc. Though that might be absence related.

Good lucca posting. Aside from the "statement of fact" that MOI is town. If you are town there are no guarantees in this game. Like your read on me at the end of this post...."probably town". That shows a little doubt at least (I am btw). I'll get to my reads list at the end of this post.

Why are you asking me about Hawk?

Also...when you do these long posts can you reference the poster's name and not just link to post numbers when you have a question towards someone? I'm not going to click on every link to a post unless it's addressed to me or wrt a player I'm interested in.

@lucca...I lean town on MOI as well...but how can you definitively anoint him town without some shred of doubt? Is MOI a crap scum player who posts completely differently than he does when he is town?

tl:dr;

confidence is suspect.

Page 25:

Annnnnd Revan is v/LA. So much for that analysis he mentioned in his last post.

lol...and MOI calls him out two posts later.

And Hans surprisingly comes to Revan's v/LA defense a little. If they are both scummy lynchbait buddies bussing each other I am going to applaud them win or lose after this game.

@lucca...If you can't see Hans and moz being scum together then would you vote Doom today? He's 3rd from the bottom of your reads list.

@moz...after accusing Hans (poorly) of AtE he breaks out the AtE on his own behalf. And he only has 1 vote on him at this point. /confusing/

In this post Doom continues to talk about his MOI vote gambit and crappy breadcrumb. And

professes his love fo

.....and states that MOI HAS GOT TO BE TOWN! [my caps] Did I mention confidence is suspect.

Doom......how is MOI's scum game different to his town game?

Oh wait...it might be a secret personal full-proof tell. Any light you can shine on the assertion would be appreciated.


Page 26:

In this post UD defends themselves, I think fairly well, against lucca suspicions.

In this post moz gives the town a little pep talk. Has moz been the most active in the game? Producing a lot of quality content? idnr....

In this post moz does not give a very convincing answer to questions from MOI.

At this point I am not liking moz or Revan...which makes me less suspect of UD then I was becoming. Unless there is just a shitload of bussing/shading going on between scum partners. Granted...UD hasn't voted Revan once and the one time they did put a vote on moz....the votes were reset due to the Hawk kill and afterwards they did not return a vote on to moz. So maybe........... Bussing without teeth.

Page 27:

@moz...in the post prior to this you give one of the reasons you are town reading Revan as the fact he is voting Hans. You then proceed in this post to point out some things about Hans that you find towny. And you unvote him.

If you are wavering in your suspicions towards Hans...wouldn't that decrease your town read on Revan...which is now based on an unsubstantiated "he sounds more honest" assessment from you?

And OBTW....you pressure vote lucca from left field. lol..... Why not pressure me? Or wgeurts? Or Doom? Or not pressure vote and actually vote a suspect....if you have any.

@lucca...this is how I was recommending you link to other player's posts. Disregard my earlier request.

@UD...gut is a thing. If it's always wrong it sucks of course but if you've had some success with it...and in the absence of solid scum tells/suspects....I don't hate when people refer to using their gut. If it happened all the time I would hate it but not in moderation. Annnnnnd in your next post you confirm your suspicions towards Revan who you have yet to actually vote. ???

@MoI...I found this post to be awfully full of yourself. Probably the least town thing I've seen you do (other than your earlier issues with me of course). Why would you presume that you'd be day-vigged while you were on v/LA? This just feels like a big WIFOM pie in the face. ex. Look guys...I'm obviously town and could be killed this weekend so here's what you should do if that happens. And of course nothing happens. whew...dodged that bullet. At least we had your last will and testament. lol......

@Hans...Great points towards UD. And wrt your following post wrt MOI...I do not think he was suggesting he would die by way of lynch. He's suggesting that scum would DV him. Cause he's uber-town. And also...moz is L-3...not L-2 (at this point anyway).

@Doom...I wouldn't categorize UD's FC hammer a quickhammer. iirc we were within reasonable range of the end of day (at least I think we were....). It didn't feel like a QH to me at least. It felt more like a lolhmmer. An oops.....my bad. A hey...this isn't a hammer...this is just an L-1 vote so be careful....wha wha what!!!? And so at this point in the day you fyi us all that you aren't sure what you are doing and you're supposed to re-evaluate your reads? You haven't been doing that since D2 started? WTF?


Page 28:

@Doom...I don't think Revan voting Hawk is AI. Revan is still scummy IMO but the fact he had the lone vote on Hawk at the time of Hawk's death doesn't mean anything IMO. More importantly would be where Hawk's votes/suspicions were. Combined I would assume with a desire to perhaps reset vote counts to eliminate a wagon on a scum player. Moz was the only other player with any heat on him at the DV point. Doom had had a fairly large wagon (L-3) a bit earlier but was in no danger att. So DVA seems of no value IMO.

A Revan sighting...Hans is better...UD is worse. moz is town. gtk. So why is your vote still on Hans?

@lucca...WTF? "yeah Doom is town?" smh head. He could be....but how do you know that so confidently? Though in hindsight....675 was a pretty good post. Leaning Doom town seems fair. But no locks please.

A wgeurts sighting...more to follow.

Page 29:

@moz...so despite my quite nice ISO I am still in your scum pool. Rev is still there (despite no vote ever) and now joined by UD and wgeurts. But your focus is on me and UD. Got it.

UD votes moz and MOI has no townreads...

UD is scum.

Annnd Hans unvotes moz. Does a Hans moz combo work?

D2 Spoiler summary...

Aside from MOI's "woe is me I could die this v/LA" post I still think he is town. "think!" people! Not "KNOW."
I also like what I have seen from Hans so he's been pulled from my lynchbait bucket. i.e. I think he is town as well.
I have to say I think Doom is town. I've gone back and forth a bit on him and while he seems to have been a bit underposting today (I could be wrong)...a few of his posts have really struck me as town.
Lucca seems town to me as well. Everyone else is up for debate as far as I'm concerned.

My read on wgeurts has been hurt by his absence and failed promises to deliver. It's not so much that he hasn't done anything scummy (aside from not delivering on content assurances) so much as he hasn't done anything period. I need to ISO him. But regardless of that...I do not see him being a legitimate wagon today so I will try to sort him out later after hopefully he gets re-engaged in the game.

Revan has done nothing I can recall and has coasted this entire game. The thought of losing to a scum team that contains Revan is very repulsive. I think he is a strong contender to be scum.

UD was solid on D1 iirc but I've had doubts around their D2 play. I didn't like the oopshammer. Despite suspecting Revan most of the game they haven't really done anything about it. I think they are good at crafting posts which tends to have a town feel to it...and I think whoever the hydra members are they seem like competent/experienced players....so I would expect more out of them than we've gotten so far.

moz I'm on the fence about.....I think they have done a lot of suspect things. They are firmly planted in my scum pool and I do not think they are getting out of it. I just have a niggling suspicion that all the paranoid/poorly explained/AtE-esque posting is coming from clueless don't lynch me town. The trouble with that is it puts them on the same level as Revan wrt not wanting to lose and find out they are on the scum team.

With town able to absorb only 1 more mislynch if I'm having reservations about a slot I would want to act on it sooner than later and pick one that might provide the most associative tells. I think moz might have more juice from his lynch (regardless of his flip)...though I think Revan has a solid chance of being scum as well and still provide some decent analysis. But then I look back at moz's posts on pages and can't help myself.

VOTE: moz


This vote puts him at L-2. It will be interesting to see if this draws out the last scum daykill. Is it worth your last shot to potentially only pause a wagon on a partner? Decisions decisions. Or not....

Also...I didn't do this on purpose but I think the above reads are probably in the order I would rate them from town to scum (might flip Revan and UD)...

[havingfitz]

Yet aside from being occasionally scum-read there is no inclination to wagon him

Lol...so what are you saying about his lack of wagonning? That it suggests he could be scum?

[havingfitz]

Before I start making my mega posts, MOO referred to me as lynchbait. On my home site, I was mislynched a lot and I came here trying to improve that. Does anyone have any tips?

Um....participate. Talk to people. Ask and answer questions. Try to find scum. Lay low when you are scu.....

[havingfitz]

It's annoying that at this crucial juncture in the game...we might not have any info to glean from the wgeurts slot. Ie who they would have voted today and the resulting flip.

Revan....your comments about making cases on UD and moz seem like you're deciding they are your suspects before you've caught back up in the game (iirc). And do you find them more suspect than Hans?

Doom...with deadline not too far off...what would your preference be if your Hans vote isn't proving worthwhile?

[havingfitz]

wgeurts & revan are being prodded.

[havingfitz]

I was asking you about Hawk because your post seemed to imply that you were thinking that somebody else had benefitted from Hawk dying, but wouldn't tell who. That reminds me, I had completely forgotten that. Did you, Fitz?

No. Too much wifom for my liking.

[havingfitz]

i forgot to vote
vote ultimate despair

Rev's my compromise choice.

If you can't beat 'em.. join 'em?

[havingfitz]

wgeurts & revan are being prodded.

What's up

mod

? No wgeurts for 4+ days.

A vote count would be great too.

Doom....what are your thoughts on the current wagons/suspects?

[havingfitz]

That seemed sudden. Game is at L-2...I go to lunch and return to a modmail. And a replacee (yay?). Annnd moz flips town.

My paranoia is kicking in and you are all suspects btw.

Nahdia_Superfan...is there a shorter acronym you are ok with because that's not going to work and I would prefer not to offend. NS? NahdiaS..etc...etc...

Also NS...wtf with that quick moz vote? And then post-flip you have the nerve to lecture/threaten Hans for putting down a vote. lol.
Since you apparently had a read on moz independent of "Look who MOI is voting!!!!" do you have any other reads you had developed? Thoughts on Rev, Hans and/or UD? Since they were the other alternatives at the time.

And WTF? You (NS) replace in to a game and then announce an immediate hiatus for the next two day? @#$%^&!

And MOI...you were the driving force in both mislynches iirc. Certainly moz. Not that I or anyone else on those wagons thought the points you were making were disingenuous....but credit has to go to you for holding the steering wheel. You have to be considered...and anyone in this game who's in your fan club are IMO either scum blowing smoke up town!MOI's ass, really creative scum buddies reverseWIFOMdistancing from scum!MOI or really shortsighted town regardless of your alignment.

UD...you casting shade on Hans for his hammer seems a bit ironic. I think his vote and oops looked pretty genuine. What I do find a bit weird is you giving him a hard time abou the hammer before we even knew the flip. Prior to knowledge that moz was town....you should be more focused on let's see what the flip is and not suspecting someone who is voting the same player as you. I.e. who's like minded. Your little pre-flip exchange just seems a bit knowing to me.

MYLO LYLO....either or...no matter. Scum still have a dayvig left so if we don't lynch scum today it's game over.

I probably won't have a decent stretch of time to look things over until tomorrow. I might be able to do the quick phone response between now and then but any concerted effort for analysis by me isn't happening today. I want to look at everyone.

And I agree....no reason to drop votes any time soon.

[havingfitz]

This is town if it's not LAMIST.

Which do you think it is?

No, that's not the case. In LYLO, we don't have the option of voting "no lynch". In MYLO, we do.

I know the difference. In this game without nights...and nightkills...all a NL does essentially is reset the current day. So for all intents and purposes Mylo = Lylo in this setup.

[havingfitz]

And MOI...you were the driving force in both mislynches iirc. Certainly moz. Not that I or anyone else on those wagons thought the points you were making were disingenuous....but credit has to go to you for holding the steering wheel. You have to be considered...and anyone in this game who's in your fan club are IMO either scum blowing smoke up town!MOI's ass, really creative scum buddies reverseWIFOMdistancing from scum!MOI or really shortsighted town regardless of your alignment.

Well on one hand I have to accept I am involved in both mislynches. On the other hand this is the sort of approach I’d expect scum to peddle. I note you were on both mislynches as well. Do you think everyone should not bear the scrutiny of two consecutive Town lynches? But to springboard some questions –

1. Do you realistically think I’d bother trying to strong-arm Revan onto a mislynch as I did with my post this morning as scum?
2. Why bother to completely fence-sit on the players who are my so-called “fan club”? You basically leave room open to call pretty much anyone in that group scum or Town. And who would you assess is said fan club?

My point wasn't that you were involved....it was that you led. If you were scum...having the pull to get town to follow you blindly into a mislynch is a great thing. I'm not saying you are scum. I haven't looked the game over with the latest flip in mind. But you must agree from anyone else's POV that you aren't exempt from suspicion. And I am obviously aware I was on both mislynches too. I also realize that in addition to you and I....UD and wgeurts/NS are on both mislynches too. But that's as far as that assessment has gone for me atm. But yes to your scrutiny question.

to your other questions:
1. Sure...if scum, why wouldn't you? It achieved a mislynch. Which is scum's goal.
2. Who are you saying is fence sitting? You or me? As for my comments...I agree it doesn't narrow anything down on anyone. It's not a strong point against anyone...I just don't like it. And the fact more than a few have been doing it makes it even less helpful and more annoying. Off the top of my head I would say Doom is president of the club. I think moz and maybe lucca were pumping you up as town. There might have been a few more that went above and beyond "I think MOI is probably town"....which is where I have been most the the game.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................calling it a night. I'll re-assess more tomorrow.

[havingfitz]

which case do you see it? about who is scum trying to pump up town!magna, scum partners with him or clueless town sheeping him?

It depends on MOIs alignment. Since I've had him as town most of the game if I had to guess...I'd say MOI was town with a combo of sheepish townfans and scum trying to avoid confrontation with him. Who is who wrt that train of thought still needs sorted out.

[havingfitz]

If Revan had hammered Moz, how would we havw been able to hold him accountable with shit like this.

If Revan had voted/hammered moz as he'd been encouraged to...I think he would still be suspect. Regardless of how he got there he still would have been on a mislynch.

I don't think Revan being on or off the moz lynch definitively clears or implicates him.

[havingfitz]

UD...you casting shade on Hans for his hammer seems a bit ironic. I think his vote and oops looked pretty genuine. What I do find a bit weird is you giving him a hard time abou the hammer before we even knew the flip.

Prior to knowledge that moz was town....you should be more focused on let's see what the flip is and not suspecting someone who is voting the same player as you. I.e. who's like minded.

Your little pre-flip exchange just seems a bit knowing to me.

This is objectively wrong by the way. "Oh it's twilight let's wait and sit on our hands to see what the flip is" is utterly useless behavior. His hammer looked suss, and I pushed him on it. It is BETTER to make that kind of push in an environment where it's unknown what the flip would be; see who seems confident that it was still scum, see who might know it's town and potentially out themselves in the discussion. Of course our mod decided to quick post the flip and end that possibility (which is kind of annoying btw), but that's a productive environment for that line of enquiry.

Ps what about the hammer seemed especially genuine to you? And what about my enquiry, other than the fact of its existence, seemed knowing?

-M

Hans' posts between 830-835 seem genuine to me. Even in 833 when supposedly Hans does not know moz has been hammered...he is still posting things he finds suspect about moz. And the next 2 posts seem legit as well. I have considered Hans a bit newbish...lynchbaity in this game even though I thought he stepped his play up a lot D2. Post 833 alone would make me think he is probably town. If he is scum that kind of misdirection from someone at his experience level would be impressive.

So UD...we're in twilight...MOI comments on the flip...NS is ~confident of a scum flip. You on the other hand are immediately all over Hans for his lolhammer. His hammer on someone you were voting as well. His vote in support of the player you suspected. His hammer which came a day after you yourself lolhammered D1. So town!you presumably knows it's something that can happen. If he hadn't said it was accidental would you have even given his hammer a 2nd look?

Your posts seemed a little like you were reprimanding him. People get reprimanded when they do something bad. People who vote for the player I suspect as we get close to deadline (albeit the mod had given us an extension but it still felt like we were getting near deadline) are IMO not doing something bad. People who vote a mislynch ARE doing something bad. And yes...I know that includes me and everyone else on the moz wagon. But when YOU are reprimanding Hans (for something "bad") and it is before we know for sure something bad has happened. That's why it felt to me like you were informed.

Questions for you UD...why...after your D1 lolhammer, that as you say did not go unnoticed, do you think scum!Hans would decide it was in his best interests D2 to do the same thing D2? Especially when scum!Hans could have just layed the vote down normally and not expressed it as a mistake. Or stayed off moz altogether and just let someone else (Revan? Doom? lucca?) drop the hammer and avoid being on the mislynch? What benefit does scum!Hans have for the potential negative attention a lolhammer could bring?

And on that note...I think the current Hans push on MOI today is quite humorous (based on the assumed relative disparities in their mafia experience levels and associated auras/experience cred). Kind of like a mouse getting pissed at an elephant. I think it's actually a bit of a town tell for me.


More later.

[havingfitz]

Clearly I am saying you are fence-sitting. The time for “we will need to figure this out” is over. Shit or get off the pot, as it were. Today we lynch correctly or lose immediately. So is that line of thought you originally posted worthwhile to discuss or not?

It was clear to you the transmitter...not to me the receiver.

Agreed×3.

I'm giving my thoughts on something that bothers me. Perhaps not the most rock solid concern now...but it could perhaps be worth looking at at some point in the game to someone. Idk. Overconfidence just concerns me.

[havingfitz]

Mod...I'm v/LA until Monday morning.

Is it my imagination or did a lot of walls go up since I last posted? ffs....

I'll try to post some over the weekend but SB and family have priority

[havingfitz]

So essentially you were so sure of Moz flipping scum that you didn't worry about a sketchy-looking sheep vote cast right before your own?

So you thought it was sketchy but rather than point anything out about that you shade Hans for what he claims is an accidental vote. Something you are familiar with. Now you bring up the sketchy vote before Hans' vote. Had you said anything earlier? I looked and couldn't find anything.

[havingfitz]

This is effectively what I call “Inadvertant Mafia Mind-set Slippage”. Specifically Hans as scum knows he has two partners and keeps posting about pairings when as Town he should be showing some level of cognizance that there are three people on the team. Is it a smoking gun? Not 100% but when I was reviewing my ISO I found multiple other instances (318, 427) where I had tagged Super’s posting as suspect but dismiss overall given relational reads that didn’t pan out.

I actually like this tell. It gives my read on Hans a hit. He was probably in my top 2 or 3 town reads but he's dropped to needs a closer look. Do some meta digging.

Why did you wait until Hans started suspecting you MOI to break out this little tell gem? Did you not notice it until today (i.e. D3)?

[havingfitz]

I didn't like the oopshammer.

I disagree. I think if I had known it was a hammer I would have done it anyway. I wanted FC lynched and extra discussion wasn't doing the town any good.

You disagree that I didn't like your oopshammer? Cause I didn't. It just wasn't worth fussing over when you had a plausible excuse with the mod's erroneous L-# in his last vote count.

Do you think Hans would have hammered if he'd known (according to him) that it wasn't an accident? And would that have effected your take on his hammer?

[havingfitz]

He was probably in my top 2 or 3 town reads but he's dropped to needs a closer look.

Do some meta digging.

That was quick...I only found 3 completed games by Hans. 2 town and 1 scum.

• The scum game he was the D1 lynch and I didn't see any suspicions listed as pairs or trios.
  
  1 town game was Newbie so there were only 2 scum...plus I think he was gone before D2 began.
  
  The 2nd town game had scum lynched day 1...but prior to that D1 lynch (when there were still 3 scum) Hans does make a few posts about possible scum duos. Don't see any mentions of trios of scum.

So I think Hans' limited meta negates the tell you found MOI. But I do still like the tell....it just doesn't fit here.

[havingfitz]

Fitz, it's felt to me for a long time like you're trying to buddy MoI. I'm not saying that you're scum for it but is there a reason? do you think he's super town or super skilled or something?

I disagree with your assessment and no wrt super town/skilled. We've played several times together and I respect his play. I think he's difficult to catch as scum. And I liked the tell he came up with on Hans....whether it held water or not.

[havingfitz]

Off the net all day yesterday (hiking+SB stuff).

Will catch up and comment today.

[havingfitz]

If either of you is town please unvote me as that lines scum up for a QL. I'm mid catch up and would like to have my say.

[havingfitz]

Weekend catch up starting on page 40.

@Hans...Yes. It has diminished a bit as has everyones but it still leans towards town. I.e. I won't be voting him today.

@Hans...I didn't say his theory was correct. I said I liked that tell. I think it is a valid tell for consideration. I think I've seen it brought up by someone (possibly MOI?) before but can't recall which game. I ilike it as a tell...I just don't think it applies to you based on your limited meta.

//Just noticed I have been put at L-2 by MOI and Hans for unknown reasons// WTF!?

wrt Town!NS...it would be nice to have your "sketched out" concerns explained.

wrt Town!NS post 1049...so his scum reads based on poe of his town reads are Me, lucca, UD and Revan. I.e. his town reads are Doom, Hans and MOI. Noted.


wrt Town!NS post 1051...

- So Doom is town because he is universally townread. Not sure I agree with that but I'm not interested in Doom today so w/e.

- Hans is town becuase he has been pushing Revan (aka highly likely scum) so hard and NS scumreads Revan. So my enemie's enemy is my friend basically. Shakey logic if you are wrong on either alignment.

- So he town reads MOI because he thinks MOI knows his alt and would have vigged him. Lot's of if's there. And because he agreed with MOI's moz push and disagrees with MOI's Hans push (which could describe my thoughts on MOI as well smh).

I realize he is unable to explain his comments but I'm not sure where NS gets the idea his presence was shaking things up and receiving a negative reaction from me given he hadn't done much up to this flurry of "Showtime" emails. I assume by negative reaction he means my Post 897 questions towards him which were perfectly reasonable questions given his entry to the game and immediate haphazard support of moz wagon while at essentially the same time condemning others for placing votes too quickly.

I assume he means scum are kissing Town!MOI's ass since he has MOI as town at this point. Similar to sentiment I have expressed most of the game.

NS making points againt Revan.....

wrt Town!NS post 1058...I disagree with the logic of who isn't placing votes on who to find scum when several of the players haven't voted several of the players. And that gives scum an easy pass for benign bussing/voting as I would argue is common place. And hNS ends this post with the as yet defined and what looks to be pre-determined bias towards me. Which would make him wrong before he even explains himself.

In this post NS contradicts himself. He just one post earlier changed MOI to a scum read (swapping him out with UD) and this in this post he gives analysis of the scum team in relation to a Town!MOI. Who he JUST called scum. smh

NS is 100% confident lucca is scum....

NS has Hans/Doom town love.

NS calls lucca vote on Revan the

only

intra-scumblock vote. How the fcuk does he know? What if one or both of them is not scum? As NS has no way of knowing with any certainty.

Annnnnd he is stalling on his lucca scum read and what I assume is his UD town read (since that was where he last had him). Drops vote on revan with confidence...

If anyone would care to try and explain how a Revan scum list with 2 unknowns "mod confirms" me as scum...I would love to hear it.

Town!NS waffling on lucca scum read...

Town!NS waffling on Doom town read...

Town!NS waffling on MOI read...thinks he might be scum...which he had already expressed at the top of his page 43.

Town!NS has me as his strongest scum read. No reasons given other than based on no scum teams without me being reasonable no matter what he does. He doesn't elaborate...and he has virtually waffled on everyone in the game except himself and Hans. So not sure how there can be any unreasoned certaintly towards me.

Town!NS confirms his suspicions towards MOI and places him on par with Revan (behind me still of course).

UD posts some meh stuff wrt vote counts. No analysis I can see. @UD...because the reading it the way you say it should have been read made it a stupid comment to begin with. Of course you are going to disagree with any accusations made towards you...regardless of your alignment.

And excellent UD post. Seemed genuinely investigatory and also like he was reading my mind wrt Town!NS's suspicions towards me.

Town!NS gives his shit logic for supporting the moz mislynch. And yet he is spot on enough that people (MOI and Hans) want to adopt his reads on me that he has not explained.

Town!NS states belief that MOI is going to endgame town.

Town!NS's case on me. In addition to being completely wrong...it's extremely thin and the most defendable part of it is the gut bit...since nothing else is really put forth for suspecting me. Ah...asking a lot of questions and not following up. I'm not sure how good a scum tell this is but wrt me (self meta time)...I'm lucky to keep up with a game one read through let alone continue to go back to see if what I asked actually got a response. I'll occasionally revisit questions I have asked but more often than not...if someone does answer a question I have asked I take it into consideration (and may or may not comment further on it) and if not, hold that lack of response as a negative consideration further down the line. But iirc I have re-posted questions unanswered and gotten into some exchanges stemming from my questions. So this point by NS is crap. Like the rest of his ~case on me.

Ha! lol....Town!NS is Radiant CowBells. That explains the scum read on me. I'm pretty sure that's his default read on me in our common games regardless of my alignment.

Town!NS states Hans is 100% town.

Annnnnnnnnnd NS (aka RadiantCowbells) is killed.

Revan makes an appearance and is catching up...<crickets>..... lol

Caught up to this morning and MOI's post-weekend catch up.

****************************************

@MOI...if you are town you need to remove your vote from me. Luckily half the game is absent which could explain why I haven't been lynched yet. The other reason, player absences aside, being that you are scum. I see your point about the NS kill and how it wouldn't make sense for scum to eliminate a player who they have in their pocket, but unless you think scum have their heads up their collective asses you don't think they would realize that?

I think the most obvious reason to kill NS would be for the WIFOM pointing at you or I...his main suspects. That plus the fact that a scum vig was inevitable. Why would scum sit on their last kill and have to get a mislynch wagon of 5 votes when they could get rid of someone deemed town...and perhaps who was detrimental to their existence as well...while at the same time reducing their mislynch requirement down to one town on town vote. So if you are town...as I said...please remove your vote from me. Your rationale for voting me is only slightly less flimsy than your case on Hans yesterday (considering his meta).

It took me a little longer to read through the game (I'm at work) and I'll have time in a few hours when I get home to add to my thoughts. But I will say this to town....I am town. And therefore...I am not "partners" with MOI. I will leave it at this for now:

- Don't vote unless you are confident in your vote because one tvt vote could win the game for scum.

- Don't put too much value in NS's reads on people. I know those of you who are town whom he was reading as town will be happy because they don't point to you...but his reads switched around quite a lot and I a can say with complete certainty that his read is wrong on me.

- If it's going to dissolve into a one on one between me and MOI...which I'm not sure I support atm...then vote MOI. Why? 1) Because I know I'm town, 2) because if you really think we could both be scum...then he is the safer vote. Because he has been shown to bus as scum before (on me in fact) where as I have a history of not lynching scum partners. If he is lynched and flips scum...I am as confirmed town as meta can prove. Whereas if I am lynched town loses; but for hypothetical reasons' sake...if I flipped scum...that would in no way clear MOI.

All for now...I'll try to get my reads out tonight.

Remember...the day just started...there is no rush. It's more in scum's best interest to act quickly.

[havingfitz]

I can summarize the Fitz above post in a few lines ...

"Look how measured and Townie I am. I totally don't think the lynch should be between myself and MoI today despite the fact that it make ZERO sense for RC to have been killed if we both are Town. But totally lynch MoI first because I am totally Town and it loses Town the game so buy my slight hidden AtE and believe my pointless self-meta that I totally don't bus".

I can summarize your vote on me in one line....

Your "logical reasoning" so far in this game has proven at best, wrong, and at worst...scum motivated.

If your vote rationale is sound it would be indicative that you are the scum between us.

To put me out there as scum for little more than DV speculation is careless or by design. Your caveat that if you are wrong town has lost anyway is pushing a faulty conclusion. Because you are wrong as I am town...and if I am not the lynch today town still has a chance.

What is your current position on the tell you presented towards Hans that his meta would seem to negate?

[havingfitz]

VOTE: MOI

[havingfitz]

Woot woot! Good to get the win.

I think scum for the most part played a pretty good game. lucca was under the radar almost the entire game and none of us faced any significant pressure until LYLO. We were helped by some lynchbait type town players and a willingness to trust/follow others (i.e. MOI and RC) blindly. That's all well and good to follow others when they are town and 100% spot on...but when their' reads are off even a little it leaves room for scum to direct wagons to their benefit. I.e. MOI's excellent cases on the first 2 mislynches and RC's firm scumread on MOI and townread on Hans before being eliminated.

Revan...I'm not sure why you even bother joining games. I'm still amazed you weren't one of the mislynches. Almost as amazing as us getting MOI mislynched for the win and with his biggest fanboy Doom being the one to place the tvt vote. smh....happy for the win.

As for the scum team...I had fun playing with both my partners. I think lucca was a solid level headed player who's only fault was probably too much iioa posting as someone pointed out (MOI or RC iirc). Superhans was fcuking driving me crazy. He would not shut the fcuk up in the thread and I kept waiting for his posting frenzies to bite us in the ass. Which some of his posts did but for whatever reason he got away with it. smh. And the two daykills we had were just a riot /sarcasm. Giving Hans control of them was like letting a hungry 5 yr old with ADHD loose in an ice cream parlor with a scooper and telling him to discuss which flavors he wanted before digging in. Fock.

One drunken WTF!!!!??? daykill on Hawk to start off our scum relationship. Assurances it would not happen again....and then an early AM WTF!!!!??? EXECUTIVE decision to kill RC. fcukfcukfcuk. At least the RC slot had been somewhat discussed as a target. Just not sure it was necessary or made at the best time. But it all worked out.

Regardless, I had fun with both my partners and we had a pretty active scumchat. I think I posted twice as much in there as I did the game itself.

Lastly,

thanks for the game mod.

[havingfitz]

lol did kinda get the sense from the scum thread that i was annoying you, sorry :z
i think i made us almost lose multiple times throughout the game, and the DK on RC must have been frustrating, but would you not agree it saved you from being lynched to a certain degree?

Annoying in a humorous way. I enjoyed having you on my scum team. Montell ingredients what holding off on the DV would have led to. We won. Cheers.

[havingfitz]

Montell ingredients

????
Should have said "No telling."