Mini Normal 1879 Bringer Mafia II [Game Over]

[ECMitchell]

Hi Everyone,

I'm glad to see this game got shunted right out of the RVS. I've read through all pages up until this point, and I do have some general reads. First, I want to say that I deliberately skipped reading Naomi's introduction post the moment I realized what it was. No offense, Naomi, but if you start all of your games that way, I'd very quickly want to avoid playing with you. It's an excuse in advance of scummy behavior; despite it likely being honest, the fact is, if your behavior is scummy regardless of alignment, you're still a detriment to town. Rather than attempting to safeguard your defensiveness from the start—hoping it serves to keep you in the game longer—I recommend learning to evolve your play style so as to not appear scummy, regardless of alignment. The "Green" vs. "Red" clarification is helpful, though, so thank you for that.

Fro99er, you certainly have an abrasive play style. Not something I appreciate, but likely something I can get use to. Voiding your posts of connotations, I generally agree with your sentiments, up until now at least. You are parroting your defense of comparing Cooperative Sheep to Axel from another game, however, which is coming across as slightly desperate. Despite some pressure coming off of Cooperative Sheep, you still seem very committed to going after them. To confirm, would you like to see Cooperative Sheep lynched today?

Cooperative Sheep has handled the initial pressure

very

scrupulously, and at the moment I wouldn't have any issue going through with a D1 lynch on them. Terata's responses throughout have also rubbed me the wrong way, particularly how he appearingly defended Cooperative Sheep in saying, "It's likely you just handle your defense awkwardly, regardless of alignment." Shortly after, though, he joined in on the pressure on Cooperative Sheep, flat-out calling him scum. To me it appears he was attempting to play both sides in the event Cooperative Sheep might have actually been lynched so quickly—or in the event everyone backed off and he could be seen as one who wasn't as aggressive in an uncertain lynch.

Gerryoat's posts up until now have been primarily filler.

I hardclaim town.

Was hoping to flip scum but alas, we are where we are

R u calling me maf

someone else vote so i can activate my 1 shot triple vote

I hardclaimed town. You can't be suspect of me

At least me saying something was a slip got this game moving out of RVS. lmao

My role is powerful btw. So I don't get lynched today

While true that your call-out on Cooperative Sheep got things rolling, you really haven't contributed anything at all yet, despite the game clearly exiting the RVS. Quite a bit of discussion has occurred in the past several pages. Do you have any reads or opinions at this point in the game? I am curious to know your thoughts.

Good luck, and have fun everyone.

[ECMitchell]

you really haven't contributed anything at all yet

par for the course with Gerry

That's too bad. Hopefully that changes.

Cooperative Sheep has handled the initial pressure very scrupulously, and at the moment I wouldn't have any issue going through with a D1 lynch on them. Terata's responses throughout have also rubbed me the wrong way, particularly how he appearingly defended Cooperative Sheep in saying, "It's likely you just handle your defense awkwardly, regardless of alignment." Shortly after, though, he joined in on the pressure on Cooperative Sheep, flat-out calling him scum. To me it appears he was attempting to play both sides in the event Cooperative Sheep might have actually been lynched so quickly—or in the event everyone backed off and he could be seen as one who wasn't as aggressive in an uncertain lynch.

I think Terata was just adapting their worldview of the game to Sheep's continued play.

I don't really see her joining in on sheep is scum as scum motivated herself. Terata is trying to accurately assess whether sheep would awkwardly defend himself, but then from sheep's later play decided something else that wasn't a defense is scummy. It's certainly possible to think someone awkwardly defending themselves and not be sure if that person would do that as town or scum but then see something that has nothing to do with defense and find it scummy

I agree it could be a natural progression. I'm not saying Terata is necessarily scum, but the behavior was interesting to me. If Terata believed Sheep is probably just awkward, it was a rather quick reverse in joining the bandwagon.

Fro99er, you certainly have an abrasive play style.

I really don't, unless people like sheep piss me off.

If it only took that much to piss you off, I'd say it's inherent to your play style. I'm not making a real point here, or anything—just something for you to consider.

@ECmich

Do you not think i believe that initial read on Sheep about playstyle? If i do believe it, why wouldn't i out that info i believe in to help you guys in reading him?

With regards to my swap on Sheep, fine if you believe swapping reads is a viable tell, even if i think it's the complete opposite that's true. Scum tries super hard to make their progressions slow and well recieved. But thats ur read so eh

This early in the game, I'm taking most everything at face-value. So, sure, I think you believe your initial read on Sheep's play style. But what's a bit weird to me is you're saying, "Why wouldn't I share these thoughts, because it will help your own reads?" But you admittedly don't know these players and deliberately make it known by saying, "I don't know how they play, but..." You did the same with Fro99er here:

Frog being dismissive and non-caring and then having this quick turn. I can't tell if it feels forced or not since i dont know the guy

If you don't know their play style, it's kind of irrelevant to any point you're making about their play style. I don't know anyone's play styles here, so I'm just commenting on what I see as tells. If others are familiar with their play styles, they can attribute their behaviors to such. But repeatedly seeing comments from you on others, followed with the disclaimer that you might not really know them, appears a bit like fluff to me.

To confirm, would you like to see Cooperative Sheep lynched today?

Is this a real question?

It's certainly not a fake question. Here's another, then: Would you prefer to lynch Cooperative Sheep ASAP or let D1 drag on a bit longer to facilitate more discussion?

[ECMitchell]

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hawk

Can you explain to me why Fro99er's successful pressure on Cooperative Sheep makes you suspect of Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoat? Your post you self-quoted is the only mention of that suspicion I can find, but I'm still not quite understanding. Honestly, I'd expect you to still be on Lil Uzi, considering your list.

[ECMitchell]

Didn't I already explain it in previous posts? Me explaining the vote would be the same thing I've said in the first couple pages

VOTE: WhemeStar

Here are all your posts from the first few pages:

Hi everyone.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I don't like it either.

RVS is great!

Your information is out of date, go back to post #9

unless your post is a lie about mine being a lie, which makes you a liar, and we should lynch all liars.

Sadly Lil Uzi Vert is too bad to unvote.

Nope!

Hope you get better soon!

I don't like him as a rapper.

Yah go fro99er you rock!

I think we got the joke when you said "baaaaaaaaaad"

VOTE: WhemeStar

Wheme, what are your thoughts on Sheep and the quick L-2 wagon on him?

I think their both town, froggy dude pushing him to get reactions out of others. And it worked, which makes me suspect Lil Uzi, Hawk, and Gerryoak.

I'll keep my vote on Uzi.

They're* sorry on phone

I think the push on sheep is weak, and frog made it seem like it was strong to get reactions out of everyone

What about lil Uzi then?

Uzi came in, sheeped a vote on sheep, which put him at L-2, didn't say anything, and then asked someone else to join the wagon. Which would put sheep at L-1. #Post 52 BTW. So yes, I do have a reason to think he is suspicious. If you want to talk about the other two people, their complaining about a slip, without a slip being there, a good scum won't slip, but scum would make it seem like people made a slip.

Fire gimme a medal for solving the game already, thanks.

Lil Uzi, I have no problem with them, but its okay to be suspicious of the people who put them at L-2, wouldn't you be suspicious of someone hammering a wagon? Where's the cutoff point on the wagon. I thought it generated good discussion too, froggy got the reactions from people that he wanted.

It wasn't until Post 56, when you had a vote placed against you, that you really offered up anything substantial. That post, however, is the only one I can find that even remotely links your suspicion to Hawk, and you have yet to elaborate on it at all, despite joining in with others on the Hawk vote and despite explicitly being asked to clarify your reasoning in Post 241. Anything you can add to expound on your suspicion would be helpful.

[ECMitchell]

I think hawk jumped on the sheep wagon which was a weak slip, him and others jumped on it which makes me suspect them a little bit, which one town wants to lynch? Idc, saw people voting hawk, so I voted himself too because he is also suspicious to me

FFS forgot to quote

Was this in response to my earlier post or someone else's?

[ECMitchell]

Lowell, I think I'd rather take the infrequent participation versus the frequent presence. Gerroat has posted plenty but actually said nothing yet. That rubs me the wrong way, and that doesn't actively aid town in anything. WhemeStar has posted a good chunk of fluff at well but at least has contributed something for me to work off of—and now I've tried to dig deeper into that.

The other lurkers aren't off my radar. Just not my focus right now.

I'll be busy for the most of the day and will be back when I can. For what it's worth, right now I'm feeling that Cooperative Sheep, Terata, and WhemeStar could be a scum team.

[ECMitchell]

It's not your level of participation. I'd be a hypocrite for calling out a lurker just for lurking. The problem with you is that you show up and offer nothing

but an attack on another lurker/quasi-lurker.

It looks like you're avoiding conflict intentionally.

Calling absolute bull on this one. Show me the receipts.

The only person I've "attacked" for filler so far has been Gerroat. I quoted all of WhemeStar's initial posts to prove against their statement that they already explained their vote against Hawk in the first couple of pages—which they really didn't.

Also, the bold text in your quote suggests you see me as a lurker. Care to elaborate on that? Since I've been added as a replacement I've been on top of this game fully.

Now about avoiding conflict, I have two responses to that:

• I'm not. I don't exactly see how calling out two players (Fro99er, Naomi) for their play styles and persisting that a player justifies their vote (WhemeStar) constitutes "avoiding conflict."
  
  
• If I was, what exactly would your point be? Avoiding conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly this early in the game. Right now we're still about deliberation and facilitating discussion. I don't have to be going at people like Fro99er is Cooperative Sheep to advance the game in this stage.

Okay,

now

I'm really leaving for the day. Just had to respond to that one.

[ECMitchell]

Mafia during break. Oh joy!

Can I just point out that I merely put an FOS on both EC and naomi and they both immediately flipped their shit on me? I am all powerful. Fear me.

Is it? Naomi crafted an entire case to OMGUS my FOS. That matters. And EC is clearly panicking. I'm through the looking glass, here, don't try to rattle me.

Really curious to know where exactly you think I "flipped [my] shit" or panicked. I merely challenged your statement, which you still really haven't responded to or attempted to clarify.

I don't think so.

EC hasn't had much of a strong stance on anything or anyone the whole game,

but clearly is hypersensitive to his image. How is this town?

Again, going to challenge you on the bold text. Is saying, "I'd be fine with a Cooperative Sheep lynch today," and, "I feel Cooperative Sheep, WhemeStar, and Terata could be a scum team," not a strong enough stance for you?

You're making a lot of hasty statements, but you've yet to prove any of it.

Well, fine. But I've played a lot of games and only when I'm aligned with scum do I find myself frantically searching the thread for every ill mention of my name. It feels like that's what both naomi and EC are doing here.

But if you're saying you don't agree with the general philosophy there, then not sure what the point in arguing with you is.

Disagreement in philosophy means it's not an argument worth having? That's what a good chunk of this game is all about, my friend.

[ECMitchell]

I missed a lot more than I thought in the past couple hours. @Terata, I'll respond to your post later.

[ECMitchell]

Calling absolute bull on this one. Show me the receipts.

The only person I've "attacked" for filler so far has been Gerroat. I quoted all of WhemeStar's initial posts to prove against their statement that they already explained their vote against Hawk in the first couple of pages—which they really didn't.

Also, the bold text in your quote suggests you see me as a lurker. Care to elaborate on that? Since I've been added as a replacement I've been on top of this game fully.

Now about avoiding conflict, I have two responses to that:

• I'm not. I don't exactly see how calling out two players (Fro99er, Naomi) for their play styles and persisting that a player justifies their vote (WhemeStar) constitutes "avoiding conflict."
  
  
• If I was, what exactly would your point be? Avoiding conflict isn't necessarily a bad thing, particularly this early in the game. Right now we're still about deliberation and facilitating discussion. I don't have to be going at people like Fro99er is Cooperative Sheep to advance the game in this stage.

Okay,

now

I'm really leaving for the day. Just had to respond to that one.

this is not a towny response to pressure. Strong emotion without really wolf reading him, just wanting to prove him wrong and get him on another path. This last sentence especially shows he was just

responding

, and not doing anything active in terms of solving the player he lashed out on.

Simple defense isn't really something towns get super engaged in unless they're really forced to IME,

and even in that they constantly consider the pushing person's alignment more than i see this post doing.

Apologies, but I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you're getting at here. You dislike my post because you feel the emotion in it is too strong against a player I haven't explicitly stated as scum—I trust that's what you mean by "wolf read?" Are you saying that players should only defend themselves against players they feel are scum? And, to confirm, are you saying by the bold text that it's a scum tell to defend yourself before being threatened with action of lynch? If so, you'd be seriously wrong.

And, yes, my post was a response to Lowell without offering any read on him. You're saying that's a scum tell?

[ECMitchell]

Yo Mitchell.

terata is town.

I think he's made an excellent case against WhemeStar. Are you basing your town read on him entirely on that?

[ECMitchell]

But nvm that for now, I just caught a scum

And you say that with 100% confidence? WhemeStar

is

scum, not just probably?

[ECMitchell]

No. I've already gone into great detail on my terata town read. It's in my ISO.

Sure enough. Thanks for pointing that out. From what I'm reading, it seems like your town read on Terata is based on a game well played. You are saying he's transparent in his thought processes and making a great effort to make sense of the game. You also like his tone, at least in contrast to Cooperative Sheep's. I can get where you're coming from with that, but I do disagree.

Want me to reveal?

no..

Anyone you want me to go into more detail on?

The interaction between Terata and WhemeStar raises some red flags for me. Wheme is repeatedly asking for validation to take the next step on whatever action. While he's posing the question to the board, this recent rally has primarily been between him and Terata, and it's coming off to me as seeking validation from a partner. "You really are putting pressure on me. Should I claim?" and, "Here, I've given some answers. Is that sufficient? Should I keep talking?"

My hunch right now is that they're paired. Terata dismissed my earlier comments by saying, "But nevermind that, I've caught scum!" Seemed very certain to me, almost in a way that he realized WhemeStar might definitely be lynched today, and he wants to make sure he's seen as one of those who championed this move. After I questioned his certainty, shortly after he posts this:

i really feel like this is not inexperienced town but inexperienced scum. but im gonna feel so bad if im wrong :/

"But I

could

be wrong, and I'll feel bad of course if I am."

By the way, I disagree very much that a lynch on a scummy player is something to feel bad about—even if they show as town. Eliminating the scummy players helps us eventually reach the scum themselves.

I definitely want to move forward in lynching WhemeStar at this point. More so than Cooperative Sheep.

[ECMitchell]

Another utterly dismissive post from you. Thanks for making this easy on me.

[ECMitchell]

I don't know the status of my vote or various wagons, but I'm ready to vote EC. This is classic derailment.

"Obvious derailment" while my vote remains firmly on WhemeStar and I've said I want to see them lynched today? You think the hunt should stop because one single person is most probably scum?

You also realize the hypocrisy of your post, yes? "He's derailing! I'm so ready to vote him now!"

Please.

Terata also just got saying he'll only respond to my points against him if others agree, or if he starts feeling the pressure. That paired with everything else? I've never seen more scummy play to be quite honest. If WhemeStar turns scum, my vote tomorrow will be placed on Terata and will not change.

[ECMitchell]

TBH if I was scum, I'd be taking advantage of Wheme floundering for as much town points as I can get

"Look at what I could be doing but am not!"

What's the point of you saying this? Are you legitimately saying you should be seen as more town for this?

I'm still comfortable lynching Wheme. In their claim though it looks like the role name was copied and pasted, including the extra period and all. Intentionally formatted that way? Would copying from the role PM like that even be allowed?

[ECMitchell]

Are you stupid? I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

[ECMitchell]

Lol gtfo, "he used a period and made his role green! Obviously copied it from somewhere"

That post has to be one of the dumbest reasons to say "I'm still comfortable voting him" Next time just say your still comfortable being a sheep to froggy

Clearly you either misunderstood my post or are panicking—or both. I didn't point out the text formatting as a reason to vote you but as a moment of hesitation: "What if he actually

is

town and he copied this from his role PM?" I'm still trying to figure out in the rules if that's even permitted; I presume it'd be fine to copy the name of the role itself when claiming like this, but nothing else from the role PM?

It's also clear from the bold you haven't been paying much attention. My vote has been on you for quite a while and far before Fro99er's.

Are you stupid?

I'm currently scumreading Wheme and have been vocal about it. My intention was to explain the lack of help.

Yet your vote remains elsewhere, because...?

Ya know, the logical fucking progression is

"I scumread someone else harder"

@Lowell, by the way, the bold text is an example of someone "flipping their shit" over nothing.

[ECMitchell]

Same list as earlier but updated on some parts.

Strong Towns:

Frogg- solving, mindmeld, pressuring

Lil Uzi Vert- Believable towny reasoning for early thoughts about suspicion
Naomi- emotional towny outlash, ok interactions

Decently strong towns:

AJ- Towny confidence+compactness in his reads.

Lowell-Free-flowey and sounds like he's solving the times he's been here. He gives real-sounding thoughts that doesn't seem like a try to get townread to me.
gerry- isn't trying

Weak towns:

Hawk- beginning of #575's towny. On return he's not as focused on defense as he was early game, but is more solving forward. Though big bits of his reads still feels kinda like he's pushing sheep for being bad more than scummy. Which is a little worrying.
PenguinPower- he's confident, but need much more from him to lock in as a real read, it's mostly tone so far.

Nulls:

Gerry- im hyped to see you start solving

Null to scum:

Sheep- i have real problems reading this guy because of his poststyle/personality. i'd rather lynch elsewhere for now since i have worse feelings elsewhere, but i won't hard defend him if my townreads agree together on lynching him.

Scum leans:

ChaosOmega- Already said case, but i doubt a bit from his response to Frog's case, mostly the WIFOM bit, im weak to that sorta stuff sorry. Also wanted to solve with me after which is never bad.
ECMitchell- Don't feel a strong drive to solve. Also gutfeeling mostly.
WhemeStar*- Passive, apologetic, sheepy without admitting it and some wolfy wordings. CLAIMED. gonna decide how to deal with it

Scum read on me for "not solving," but null read on gerryoat for not solving? Your logic is extremely hard to follow. And, by the way, I've been attempting to solve plenty. I think you just don't like to see that I've paired you with others as scum.

ok, so if Wheme is a town rolestopper, and say he targets me for example, and no kill goes through in the night. Then i've been shot for sure right? or could it be that mafia let me make the factional kill and i got stopped from doing the kill that way?

One of the scummiest posts I've seen in this game so far. Attempting to elaborate on the mechanics of a town power role only helps scum. Not to mention the second half of your post. What's with that example?

I'm going to go with the wheme claim for now. Someone pointed out it could easily be a scumrole, which is true, but for D1 I don't see the point in testing it.

VOTE: EC

Can we finally wagon this guy? He's coasting, and also scum. Plus I don't have the energy to sustain this chaos wagon by myself.

Yet another unfounded statement from Lowell. How can I be coasting, and you not, when we have the same number of posts? I've been more consistent than you to boot. This seems to be a pattern with you, as you still haven't properly responded to my earlier challenges. Make a vein accusation then bail when pushed back on it.

WhemeStar is scum in my opinion. If so, Terata is too. From there it's just determining the third. Could still be Sheep as I mentioned originally, or perhaps Lowell attempting to veer away the vote from WhemeStar tells us something too?

[ECMitchell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

[ECMitchell]

And lol at pushing scum on me for trying to understand the powers of a role. If something is pro-scum, it's pro-town for us to know how that works regardless so you're making 0 sense

?

And the converse is just as true. If something is pro-town, it's pro-scum to detail explicitly how its mechanics work.

[ECMitchell]

there's a difference (a big one) between trying to appear to solve, which is the feeling im getting from you, and not caring at all, which is Gerry. And i don't have a problem with the fact you're scum reading me. But that a big part of why you're scum reading me is w/w with Wheme, is insane in a bad way

Agreed, there's a difference there. But that's not what you accused me of doing in your post. "Doesn't feel drive to solve," is an entirely different statement from "is trying too hard to appear like he's solving."

You're all over the place my man.

Okay but this isn't really what the rest of us have been saying. And either way is bad.

I'm curious why you felt the need to respond on Terata's behalf. Not to mention there's a lot wrong with your response in general:

"This isn't really what the rest of us have been saying." By "rest of us," who exactly do you mean? At the moment there are only three votes against me: Terata, Fro99er, and you. Terata's reasoning is extremely inconsistent, Fro99er hasn't really shared his reasons yet, and your own reasons have been repeatedly refuted and disputed with no follow-up or elaboration from you: Post 371, Post 431, Post 532, Post 621.

"And either way is bad." Yes, that'd be an apt enough statement. Only he's yet to substantiate his original accusation that I "have no drive to solve." My posts are littered with me attempting to find scum reads and scum pairs, yet after I point that out to him, his argument suddenly became, "You're just trying to appear like you're solving." There's no firm line of reasoning from either of you.

So explain to me what the "rest of [you] have been saying," exactly?

[ECMitchell]

@EC- because it's about you, and I'm trying to get you lynched. Ter doesn't speak for everyone on your wagon and I'll respond to what I want. The case is about you, not ter. It doesn't matter who pushes that case forward.

You going to just ignore 80% of my post? I get you want me lynched. You have struggled to provide a real reason. I repeat my one and only question to you in my previous post

And you're free to respond to whatever you like, just as I'm free to find you speaking for others incredibly scummy

[ECMitchell]

So...you going to do this all game?

yes. lol

I agree that you have been extremely unhelpful. Please stop deliberately ignoring requests to contribute.

[ECMitchell]

@Mod,

can you please fix the quote tags in my last post? Apologies.

[ECMitchell]

@Mod,

I believe the vote count is incorrect. AJ's vote is on Lowell currently: Post 628.

~I need to force Maria to double check every vote count I do >.>

[ECMitchell]

Frog whats your opinion on Terata and ECM's argument a few pages back?

ECM scumreading terata is bad.

This was the drafted reason you needed to save? And I have no idea how anyone can read through Terata's ISO and believe they're town.

Reading penguin's ISO is annoying. @penguin, I wish you would quote the posts you respond to more so I can make better sense of your post history.

I think Chaos and Wheme are either both town, or one is town one is scum.

There is ZERO chance both are scum.

I'm weary of absolutism like this. The truth of the matter is, this early in the game, the only ones who can accurately and confidently make such claims are scum. As town—right now—we simply cannot possibly know. Perhaps that's just your tone of voice to show confidence, but you and Terata both have now made absolute assertions like this. I also don't quite understand the logic behind that claim—why can't Chaos and Wheme be scum mates?

I still fully endorse my vote on WhemeStar. After some pressure was taken off he has practically ceased all participation and has been coasting. Curious why the claim deterred so many so quickly, when chances are caught scum will claim a power role to stay alive longer. If their play is still scummy—and WhemeStar's play always has been and still is incredibly scummy—it's still the lynch to go with.

[ECMitchell]

This was the drafted reason you needed to save?

No.

Where the fuck did I say that was my drafted reason?

Don't fucking put words in my mouth.

I didn't know. That's why it was a

question

to you, not a statement. Hot headed are we?

[ECMitchell]

ECM get an avatar boi!!

Okay so walk me through two things. Walk me through the part of Terata's ISO that ping you and walk me through how Wheme and Chaos could be scum buddies because I think it's a safe assumption to make by Fro99er but I want to know what I didn't see.

Fine. Avatar'd.

It's easier for me to point out my suspicion of Terata by sharing my own post history, since I've quoted Terata and provided suspicions in those same posts:

465 (More conversational, but providing this for reference.)
474
517
520
621
625
626

In short, Terata's logic is inconsistent, he continually dismisses points raised against his logic, and I find his interactions with WhemeStar "off" in every sense. I also found AJ's points in 631 to be spot-on.

What's the reason we haven't tied up Lowell yet? He's giving scumreads out like water and yet people aren't voting him. Scum would ATTACK this weak of a townmember, guys.

I wouldn't mind this lynch, but I'd really rather see WhemeStar's lynch first; I'm more confident in it.

[ECMitchell]

Okay so walk me through two things. Walk me through the part of Terata's ISO that ping you and walk me through how Wheme and Chaos could be scum buddies because I think it's a safe assumption to make by Fro99er but I want to know what I didn't see.

To answer your second question, Hawk: I'm not saying WhemeStar and Chaos are necessarily scum together. I'm not sure I'd even have an argument for that pairing right now. What I'm challenging is the assertion that they're

definitely

—with 0% chance otherwise—not scum together. Any pairing is possible right now, and the perspective of each and every townie should be that any pairing is possible.

[ECMitchell]

I definitely don't want to see this lynch go to waste. My more confident vote is on WhemeStar, and that does seem where the plurality of votes is on at the moment. If for whatever reason that doesn't pan out, AJ, I'd be comfortable voting Lowell as well. For what it's worth, I agree with your arguments against him; you're not going unheard.

I don't quite get the reasoning against Hawk. To be honest, I generally like his posts and am getting town reads.

[ECMitchell]

I'm more comfortable with a Lowell lynch than a Chaos one.

I'll be gone for most of the day, so here's this:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

I'll still check in through my phone and answer any pressing questions anyone has for me. Just might not be right away or very thorough.

If there's a vigilante, shoot WhemeStar tonight please.

[ECMitchell]

I'm more comfortable with a Lowell lynch than a Chaos one.

I'll be gone for most of the day, so here's this:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

I'll still check in through my phone and answer any pressing questions anyone has for me. Just might not be right away or very thorough.

If there's a vigilante, shoot WhemeStar tonight please.

Omg I just started hating Mitchell for the Vig comment.

Omg I just started hating Mitchell for the Vig comment.

Why.

That's the best thing a vig could do

I don't know what that role is. Where do I find out?

You don't know what the vigilante role is or does but somehow knew to call it "vig?" What? And then to say you hate something you now claim you didn't understand?

[ECMitchell]

You mean the role that is (a) described by its title (literally

role blocker

) and (b) more universal in mafia games than swing roles like vigilante? How can you be familiar with the latter and not the former?

If you originally meant vig, I'd just call that a slip. If you really did mean role blocker, I'd call

you

stupid.

[ECMitchell]

K, so Mitchell suggested to shoot an Escort while later on basically tries to make it look as if I slipped. Why would shooting an Escort be a good move?

All you have to do, my friend, is read. I believe Fro99er alone explained it once or twice. If you haven't finished catching up just yet, please do so before trying to insert yourself too much.

@Mod,

thanks for the extension.

[ECMitchell]

You mean the role that is (a) described by its title (literally

role blocker

) and (b) more universal in mafia games than swing roles like vigilante? How can you be familiar with the latter and not the former?

If you originally meant vig, I'd just call that a slip. If you really did mean role blocker, I'd call

you

stupid.

It's not a role blocker

It's a rolestopper

Different roles

Oh Jesus. I've been reading that wrong this entire time. Those are two very different roles indeed. And admittedly, a role stopper isn't as obvious to understand as a role blocker, so I apologize to Unknown1234. Just know that I tend to get feisty when others do with me.

[ECMitchell]

What you're saying makes a lot more sense to me now Fro99er: That a rolestopper and vigilante in the same game nearly assuredly means the rolestopper is scum aligned. I was following that logic with roleblocker instead, which still has truth in it but isn't quite as guaranteed—it doesn't generally make sense to have a town-aligned roleblocker as well as other major town power roles.

[ECMitchell]

Good Lord, Alisae, you're quite the whirlwind aren't you? You join and the game zips on by. I need to catch up on a lot, but what I'm taking away more than anything else from my quick reading is WhemeStar is basically counterclaimed once, twice, or thrice over. That's certainly enough for me.

However, the only thing that doesn't make sense is why a Role Stopper would be odd-night while the other power roles are supposedly even-night.

AJ, I'm still inclined to agree Lowell is scum. I don't see that lynch going anywhere today though, and WhemeStar's death will tell us far, far more.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WhemeStar

Alisae, you said scum can fake lackadaisical town power roles easily but they cannot fake conviction? I question if you've only been playing with newbie scum to come to that conclusion.

[ECMitchell]

However, the only thing that doesn't make sense is why a Role Stopper would be odd-night while the other power roles are supposedly even-night.

who ever said the other PRs are even night?

I'll try to find the post on my lunch, but I thought I read Chaos asking Hawk whether he was odd-enabled, and Hawk said no. Might've read that completely wrong. Trying to catch up during my breaks.

[ECMitchell]

However, the only thing that doesn't make sense is why a Role Stopper would be odd-night while the other power roles are supposedly even-night.

who ever said the other PRs are even night?

I'll try to find the post on my lunch, but I thought I read Chaos asking Hawk whether he was odd-enabled, and Hawk said no. Might've read that completely wrong. Trying to catch up during my breaks.

That doesn't mean he's even-night

You're right—derp. Keep on keeping me grounded, Fro99er. I need you this game apparently.

For the record, I find Alisae's entrance this game rather scummy and all over the place, but for now I'll keep the focus among WhemeStar, Lowell, ChaosOmega, and Hawk—and preferably in that order. Gerryoat "hardclaims town power role," and the same is implicit through Hawk and ChaosOmega's conversations. There is nearly guaranteed to be one scum—possibly two—among those four (excluding Lowell).

Are we saying it's best for other power roles to investigate/shoot WhemeStar tonight? I'm not following the tone of direction right now.

[ECMitchell]

Question rolestopper is more inclined to be scum based off the number of PR's town has right even if it is Odd/even night?

Because I may not understand my role in conjuction to whemes well as I thought if that's the case in this setup.

Sorry I've been here just trying to process all this information.

Generally speaking, yes—at least in my experience. With numerous and/or powerful town power roles, role stopper is generally assigned to scum to prevent actions against a scum mate. It generally doesn't make sense to have a role stopper be town-aligned when there are other townies with night actions, since the role stopper taking action night really only decreases odds of town finding out something worthwhile.

I typically apply the same line of thinking to role blockers as well, albeit to a lesser extent.

[ECMitchell]

You'll have to explain what you mean, Unknown. I'm not following.

[ECMitchell]

This is a cruddy post but I'm out celebrating Valentine's and don't have much time to elaborate. I read through the past several pages. Fro99er your pairing of me with others is an interesting enough point; I still say I don't want to see ChaosOmega or Cooperative Sheep lynched anytime soon.

You guys came close to a lynch I can agree with.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

Since WhemeStar apparently isn't happening, this is next best.

[ECMitchell]

By the way, probably the only confident town read I have this game is Unknown.

[ECMitchell]

Seriously disagreed with this lynch, but at least it'll get is somewhere. Expecting a town flip here.

[ECMitchell]

Get us* somewhere... Damn phone. And havingfitz your reaction to someone else's lynch is a bit more emotional than I think it should be.

Did Sheep ever claim? Probably doesn't matter with the four others who claimed power roles. As a reminder, if we have a vigilante, shoot the role stopper WhemeStar.

[ECMitchell]

Was not expecting to see Cooperative Sheep flip scum. Interesting death during the night too. Unless I'm missing something very obvious, don't we lynch WhemeStar now? Or by ChaosOmega's vote on me, am I to take it that you've successfully sorted WhemeStar last night and can confirm their town alignment? Hawk's role being a universal backup, in conjunction with the other soft and hard claims, confirms town has myriad power roles this game. Typically a role stopper would be assigned to scum in this case.

VOTE: WhemeStar

[ECMitchell]

Oh so chaos isn't voting Wheme therefore Wheme must be town so i'm gonna vote Wheme

I'm not voting because of that, lmao. I don't see confirmation yet, so until then, my vote will remain firmly on WhemeStar.

Vote and wagon me if you want. We can clearly afford the mislynch. But with the Hawk kill and WhemeStar still alive, something's not right.

Still calling WhemeStar/Terata for scum.

[ECMitchell]

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

You reading the same game I am? Because it was clear as day the lynch yesterday was between Lowell and Sheep before Terata weighed in. Some players bus, others defend. I don't look to that to determine who is scum, since it varies by the person and by the game. I look at the individual, and WhemeStar and Terata both have incredibly scummy ISOs that I've already commented on.

[ECMitchell]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT TERATA STARTED THE SHEEP WAGON AND SHEEP WAS OFF THE RADAR UNTIL SHE STARTED IT

Holy cow. You really are something, aren't you? If all it took was one player to say, "I vote Sheep instead," and the rest of the votes came flooding in without further deliberation, that means Sheep was already on the chopping block. It's not hard to understand tone.

Okay now you just get roped.
Terata scum after starting a flashwagon on Sheep AROUND DEADLINE?
REALLY?
REALLY?

You reading the same game I am? Because it was clear as day the lynch yesterday was between Lowell and Sheep before Terata weighed in. Some players bus, others defend. I don't look to that to determine who is scum, since it varies by the person and by the game. I look at the individual, and WhemeStar and Terata both have incredibly scummy ISOs that I've already commented on.

And in what possible reason does scum!Terata have for bussing Sheep there?

What's kind of question is this? What reason do scum have to bus their mates in ANY game? It buys them longevity, it cuts ties with a mate they feel is a detriment to their team, and in some cases it earns them blind and stupid trust from others for what will probably be long enough for them to win. You either already know this and are looking to get most out of it or really are oblivious enough to press a ridiculous point like this.

[ECMitchell]

Ec why is your vote on me

Do you really think it's me and Tereta scum?

No offense, but that's an incredibly silly question to ask. If you can't figure out the answer on your own, you really haven't been paying much attention to the game, which only furthers my suspicion of you.

I never claimed that I could prove Wheme's alignment. I said I thought my role seems incompatible with a town rolestopper. But it's not impossible.

I'm a tracker. My target last night was ECMitchell; they didn't go anywhere.

Some of Wheme's posts at the end of D1 made me second guess my scum read on the slot. I read through Sheep's ISO, and they mentioned every player in the game except for ECMitchell. Not even in passing, not as a part of a readslist, none. It's a giant scumtell to me when scum is lynched and someone isn't mentioned by them.

He wasn't even on WhemeStar? My lord. At least we can easily afford some missteps such as this. Chaos, I'll say that your reason against me is a good one, and I'd agree in others' shoes. But if you were really on me, and that was really you're result, I have no clue why you would continue to suspect me.

Considering town supposedly has a role stopper, that would mean scum should have power roles as well, and you would expect I'd either perform the kill or use an active ability each night, especially with scum being behind like this.