Mini Normal 1873 (Game Over)

[Garmr]

VOTE: Nydrusher
Already caught scum in pre-game lmao.

VOTE: Alisae

For starting with he letter A.

[Garmr]

Garner senpai noticed me

[Garmr]

Garmr I'm not surprised since you don't actually like me
;~;

You have to notice someone to dislike them. But nah you are alright and oyu're fun to play with. Look I will even give you a mafia scum title.

You shall be dubbed

LYNCH BAIT

[Garmr]

Rvs hasn't broken yet yet we seem to be forming wagons. That's a first.

[Garmr]

LQ definite town due to not paying enough attention to who's in the game to even direct a vote correctly? Sounds like a plan to me.

vote: Alisae

for reasons. (Hint, they aren't good reasons)

I'm being bullied and I would like to know the reasons ;~;

@Alisae what are the reasons?

Ugh sorry, that was a typing fail.

@PranaDevil - - reasons??

This is actually Scummy I think. There use to be a tell out there that Scum misspell stuff or don't say stuff correctly. I also find it Scummy that they are asking for reasons. Should be clear it is RVS and I don't buy that its an attempt to push the game forward so either they are not very good Town or obvious Scum.

VOTE: shannon

I misspell stuff all the time. Who ever thought of that tell should be shoot.

[Garmr]

Clearly this is almost a Newbie game if people have this kind of thing to say about my analysis.

You know you should of waited before trying to push her right. Asking questions can be protown or a scum tell depending on what they do with the answer. So instead of waiting to see what she does with it you pretty much spoiled anyway of telling if she is scum or not

[Garmr]

I don't think It's scummy to have flawed reasoning like Lickety had. Town can be Flawed as well.

[Garmr]

That being said

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Real vote time.

This vote feel opportunistic to me. It' hasn't got real reasoning and I feel like it's on someone he thinks will end up being a wagon.

VOTE: karnos

[Garmr]

That being said

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Real vote time.

This vote feel opportunistic to me. It' hasn't got real reasoning and I feel like it's on someone he thinks will end up being a wagon.

VOTE: karnos

I don't think It's scummy to have flawed reasoning like Lickety had. Town can be Flawed as well.

Seems like you tried to guess the reasoning, and then assumed I had none afterward. Weird.

If LQ is scum, you are the partner jumping to derail the lynch.

I wasn't scum reading him based on his logic, it was his defensiveness and over-explaining himself that pinged me.

Also, isn't an opportunistic vote usually characterized as jumping on a growing wagon?

Lol I'm his partner for trying to derail his wagon. That's the type of accusation people make when they want someone to back off them.

I honestly think his hasn't done anything scummy yet. If his scum and I'm wrong then I'm wrong. But I have a gut feeling that he isn't.

When you say his overly defensive I don't think that makes him scum. His being defending his logic not that his town/scum. A town that believes in his logic and is really stubborn won't want to hear what others will have to say and may act that way. If he was scum I would expect him to retreat a little bit back instead of going full force at it.

Honestly If you had a reasoning for him and didn't just make one up on the spot why wouldn't you post it with your vote? It's towns job to convince others to vote with you. Scum won't care as much.

Scum try to predict the best place there votes while town are looking for scum. You look like the earlier to me so that's why I'm on you.

[Garmr]

OMGAWD GARMR JUST SCUMCLAIMED LOL
LOL
LOL
ECKS DEE

????

[Garmr]

You said you were his partner trying to derail the wagon hehe
don't mind me just a joke.

Lol oh k Still kinda don't get it through.

What do you think about XnadrojX/karnos/liquity/ through? I would like to hear more of your opinions through because you sheep a lot of noticed. Sheeping isn't bad as town since there are times town need to sheep. But it's always good to have some independent thought. It helps me in a variety of ways if all the players are actively posting with their own thoughts. Since I thrive in those scenarios.

[Garmr]

I'd rather have Alisae improve as a player than policy lynch him every game.

[Garmr]

wow I just realized my post 111 has so many grammar issues.

[Garmr]

You said you were his partner trying to derail the wagon hehe
don't mind me just a joke.

Lol oh k Still kinda don't get it through.

What do you think about XnadrojX/karnos/liquity/ through?

I would like to hear more of your opinions through because you sheep a lot of noticed. Sheeping isn't bad as town since there are times town need to sheep. But it's always good to have some independent thought. It helps me in a variety of ways if all the players are actively posting with their own thoughts. Since I thrive in those scenarios.

The phrasing here seems quite stilted and unnatural. Not sure whether it's natural style, early game awkwardness, or scumminess.

Probably a little bit of natural style and something else(not scum or early game awkwardness.).

I was a little conscious of that post through I'm kinda amazed you picked up on that. I rewrote that one like 3-4 times before I was satisfied with it. Originally it was going to be "what did you think of my case on karnos?" Instead of the highlighted section. But then it occurred to me that alisae is a player that will sheep their town reads. I didn't want to contaminate alisae's answer with my own thoughts. I wanted to see what type of answer alisae would produce and if I could get anything information on his alignment out of it.

[Garmr]

You said you were his partner trying to derail the wagon hehe
don't mind me just a joke.

Lol oh k Still kinda don't get it through.

What do you think about XnadrojX/karnos/liquity/ through?

I would like to hear more of your opinions through because you sheep a lot of noticed. Sheeping isn't bad as town since there are times town need to sheep. But it's always good to have some independent thought. It helps me in a variety of ways if all the players are actively posting with their own thoughts. Since I thrive in those scenarios.

The phrasing here seems quite stilted and unnatural. Not sure whether it's natural style, early game awkwardness, or scumminess.

Probably a little bit of natural style and something else(not scum or early game awkwardness.).

I was a little conscious of that post through I'm kinda amazed you picked up on that. I rewrote that one like 3-4 times before I was satisfied with it. Originally it was going to be "what did you think of my case on karnos?" Instead of the highlighted section. But then it occurred to me that alisae is a player that will sheep their town reads. I didn't want to contaminate alisae's answer with my own thoughts. I wanted to see what type of answer alisae would produce and if I could get anything information on his alignment out of it.

OK, so what did Alisae's answer (121) tell you, if anything?

For my two cents: I am town reading Alisae, for things like post 84. I appreciate Alisae for calling out Lickety for being so OTT in his misguided pursuit of me. I think it's generally towny to ask follow up questions like Alisae did. The suggestion that it might have all been a misunderstanding (95) seems like an attempt to get to truth and not a scummy attempt to slander.

But XJordan's response in 91 took it way too far. His counter to Lickety looked way OTT, not to mention opportunistic. I did find it ironic that he told Lickety to go back to the newbie queue, then committed the cardinal newbie sin of answering a question that was directed at someone else.

The weird bit - Alisae asked XJordan to 'wagon it' with him, and Jordan didn't do so. And Karnos voted Lickety straight after. Jordan, meanwhile sticks with his RVS vote on Alisae. Gut feel is that Jordan was afraid of looking opportunistic for voting Lickety. My vote was RVS on Jordan, but now it's serious.

Revote so it comes up in the Mod's VCA stuff:

VOTE: XJordan for serious this time

I kinda liked it for the most part

What I liked

I never thought about the possibility of jordan being scum. Because I was focused on the answers not why he interjected. Which is my short coming there.
Alisae could of easily jumped on to sheep karnos a scum read on karnos as well. But instead it looks us that alisae is trying to decide if karnos is scum or not. Which combined with alisae previous actions seem town.

There was one problem I had through.

That alisae keeped his vote on LQ instead of moving to jordan. He seemed to of placed a much stronger case and it seemed like he was leaning towards jordan.

[Garmr]

Actually after rereading jordan in iso he never once indicated a scum read on LQ or language that you would use on a scum read. So him not voting there does make sense.

The interjecting was bad and I give props for alisae for noticing that but honestly I felt karnos post were a lot worse and we are more likely to hit scum there.

[Garmr]

Quick glance through everyone of Jordans played games that were finished. Couldn't find one case of him interjecting as town or scum.

[Garmr]

I don't see jordan as scum, the more I reread the more he looks townie.

[Garmr]

@Lickety -

What opening though? My vote on her has nothing to do with you pressuring her.

I have to point out how terrible your logic is in this part:

Also, Expect Scum to reply in the same way you did. I was thinking about the counter argument you could have made that would have been better, but I find it Scummy that you didn't use that one and decided to base your argument based on facts instead of sentiment.

It is my opinion that Town generally bases more of their arguments on sentiment than facts, at least in my experience. True people can use either or as both alignments but

when one is neglected over the other is when it becomes clearer what that persons motivation is

.

This is just plain bad, for so many reasons:

1) I had no need to think of the Best Possible Counterargument because I'm only giving my *actual* counterargument, which is to state my actual reasons for voting Alisae.
2) Why is it scummy to avoid Appeal to Emotion? Especially when there's no emotion involved? I've played multiple games where people have made exactly the opposite claim to you; that acting emotionally is scummy because there are no good reasons to fall back on
3) It seems you know I'm telling the truth, and yet you think I should have told an emotional lie because it would have been more convincing. That is very weird to me.

Also, is there a plan for you to do anything other than 'reaction test' and then claim that whoever reacts is doing what you'd expect scum to do? That schtick is getting old, and it's less convincing each time you claim it.

1) I'm not talking about you giving your reasons for voting Alisae, I am talking about you giving your counter argument to what I said.
2) I am not talking about giving an argument based on AtE. I am talking about arguing a point that is emotionally invested in the argument.
3) This is empty shade. You are saying I am doing something that I am not. I don't read people based on "facts" and "most compelling argument" I read people based on character. My read had nothing to do with the fact that you gave a truthful argument, after all that can be faked.

4) You say I am Scummy and say I am doing things that are "very weird to you" why no voted?

Alisae, can you see the angle where Garmr

knows

you are Town?

Talking about throwing empty shade and not following up on it.

[Garmr]

@Lickety -

What opening though? My vote on her has nothing to do with you pressuring her.

I have to point out how terrible your logic is in this part:

Also, Expect Scum to reply in the same way you did. I was thinking about the counter argument you could have made that would have been better, but I find it Scummy that you didn't use that one and decided to base your argument based on facts instead of sentiment.

It is my opinion that Town generally bases more of their arguments on sentiment than facts, at least in my experience. True people can use either or as both alignments but

when one is neglected over the other is when it becomes clearer what that persons motivation is

.

This is just plain bad, for so many reasons:

1) I had no need to think of the Best Possible Counterargument because I'm only giving my *actual* counterargument, which is to state my actual reasons for voting Alisae.
2) Why is it scummy to avoid Appeal to Emotion? Especially when there's no emotion involved? I've played multiple games where people have made exactly the opposite claim to you; that acting emotionally is scummy because there are no good reasons to fall back on
3) It seems you know I'm telling the truth, and yet you think I should have told an emotional lie because it would have been more convincing. That is very weird to me.

Also, is there a plan for you to do anything other than 'reaction test' and then claim that whoever reacts is doing what you'd expect scum to do? That schtick is getting old, and it's less convincing each time you claim it.

1) I'm not talking about you giving your reasons for voting Alisae, I am talking about you giving your counter argument to what I said.
2) I am not talking about giving an argument based on AtE. I am talking about arguing a point that is emotionally invested in the argument.
3) This is empty shade. You are saying I am doing something that I am not. I don't read people based on "facts" and "most compelling argument" I read people based on character. My read had nothing to do with the fact that you gave a truthful argument, after all that can be faked.

4) You say I am Scummy and say I am doing things that are "very weird to you" why no voted?

Alisae, can you see the angle where Garmr

knows

you are Town?

Talking about throwing empty shade and not following up on it.

I have you as Null. I was just seeing if Alisae could see that angle. If you have never seen that argument before, you are living under a rock.

Nah that seems like to me that you are just throwing shade.

[Garmr]

Throwing shade Lq

It means to make someone look bad with out committing to it.


Like you literally just did the mafia scum dictionary definition of throwing shade. You say you have me as a null read but you went out your way to say "have you thought of him knowing your town" Which in my mind doesn't even make sense. Because if I was a null read why are you worried about alisae view on me. Even then my answer was about trying to get a better read on alisae by not contaminating his thoughts. Also the same argument you made can be applied with

Alisae, can you see the angle where Garmr

knows

you are Town?

I could easily make bull shit up saying you only said this because your scum and you know alisae is town and you want to stop the garmr town read because you're afraid of me. But I won't because using he knows cases are bad.

Yep. Piccolo taught you how to dodge pretty well Gohan.

I see you're taking lessons in the 'annoy people until they give you what they want' school of scumhunting eh

There's a condition to my responding in full that has yet to be fulfilled that I expect to be soon. Simple as that.

I agree. Alisae is just being aggressive there is really no substance there. Unfortunately people follow people like them.

Talking about shade throwing. This makes alisae look bad and seems like your throwing it for the heck of it.

[Garmr]

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and t

hen when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

This is classic scum play. You win either way- either the guy you throw shade on gets miss-lynched, or you turn it into a wagon on someone who "opportunistically' took your scum reads at face value.

You deserve more votes for this. Your literally trying to make yourself seem like a victim and push the blame on Jordan that's pathetic.

[Garmr]

Garmr what's your opinion on Gin?
That Pep vote is really sus.

Honestly I don't understand the shift from karnos to pep and back. I haven't looked to deeply into him so guess I should. I would like some BBT posts now you reminded me.

[Garmr]

Yeah no, BBT and Pep, you need to start doing the thing where you vote. Don't be like America and not fucking vote.

<<< The beautiful thing about mafia games is that there's no age restriction on voting, either! >>>

After looking through his iso the only reason for him to pep is because of this.

I don't think he would know but after looking at peps first finished game he took up to 470(25 in his iso) posts from all players before he placed a vote down. It doesn't seem out of character for pep to not vote from either alignment.

[Garmr]

Throwing shade Lq

It means to make someone look bad with out committing to it.


Like you literally just did the mafia scum dictionary definition of throwing shade. You say you have me as a null read but you went out your way to say "have you thought of him knowing your town" Which in my mind doesn't even make sense. Because if I was a null read why are you worried about alisae view on me. Even then my answer was about trying to get a better read on alisae by not contaminating his thoughts. Also the same argument you made can be applied with

Alisae, can you see the angle where Garmr

knows

you are Town?

I could easily make bull shit up saying you only said this because your scum and you know alisae is town and you want to stop the garmr town read because you're afraid of me. But I won't because using he knows cases are bad.

Yep. Piccolo taught you how to dodge pretty well Gohan.

I see you're taking lessons in the 'annoy people until they give you what they want' school of scumhunting eh

There's a condition to my responding in full that has yet to be fulfilled that I expect to be soon. Simple as that.

I agree. Alisae is just being aggressive there is really no substance there. Unfortunately people follow people like them.

Talking about shade throwing. This makes alisae look bad and seems like your throwing it for the heck of it.

What is actually wrong with what I said? You haven't actually addressed the fact that your post CAN be taken as you knowing Alisae is Town. Why no argument there and just saying it is throwing shade?

How can it be taken that way? You haven't actually provided a case on how it could becuase I honestly don't see how it could be.

And when you say I'm not committing? Please, the game days are 3 weeks long and you are giving me shit about not committing to a read balls deep after like 72 hours.

Please spare me the bull shit. You literally tried to make me and alisae look bad and didn't follow up with a scum read or an investigation into it. That's amateur scum play.

Also what's your motivation as town to muddy up other players who are being town read??????

[Garmr]

Garmr, LQ mentioned the game where he was scum and I was town earlier. Wanna look at it?

Sure

[Garmr]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69420

I am confused why it's relevant to this game alisae. Maybe you can tell me how so I can understand?

[Garmr]

In these three posts we see you mentioning Alisae and how they are sheeping. You mention how as Town sheeping isn't necessarily a bad thing. You then go on to say that you think it would be better if Alisae improves as a player instead of PLing them every game based on their sheeping as Town. I really find it unlikely that you are somehow saying that Alisae sheeps as a playstyle and not just as Town.

What can be deduced is that A) You don't say a single thing about how she could do that as Scum. And B) Based on her Town play sheeping you infer she is Town.

She has not had a single completed game as Scum.

And when you say I'm not committing? Please, the game days are 3 weeks long and you are giving me shit about not committing to a read balls deep after like 72 hours.

Please spare me the bull shit. You literally tried to make me and alisae look bad and didn't follow up with a scum read or an investigation into it. That's amateur scum play.

Also what's your motivation as town to muddy up other players who are being town read??????

Sure it could be amature Scum play. It could also be good Town play in a style you are not used to. Look through this game to get a picture of how I play as Town sometimes: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69627

Ok first up
You jumped to conclusion/made one up.

1. I don't like policy lynches in general and I don't feel alisae deserves to be policied. Also policy was the topic at the time.
2.If you know alisae sheeps as town and I'm talking about past games where alisae has sheeped. Then how does that infer I know what alisae is this game Also if I thought alisae was town from sheeping why would I ask him to show independent thought so I can get a better read?
3.I don't scum read alisae and I haven't found anything scummy about their slot so why would I say alisae could be scum in this scenario ect. I just wanted a clearer read and if you want to ask I'm town reading him now.
4.Never did I say sheeping or imply it = town.




Still through I'm not sure what to think of you anymore.

[Garmr]

Who are the people Jordan is referring too? It's hard to understand what you're saying. Just tell me a narrative and include the post number.

Like I don't know the context of the posts. So tell me Jordan said that "Player X" is townie for doing "action X" but I see a contradiction that Jordan says "Player Y" is scummy for doing "action Y"

If you could explain it to me in that form it would be very much appreciated because I'm having a hard time following what you want me to see.

xnadrojx
It's jordan spelled backwards.

[Garmr]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

[Garmr]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

Style of posting is similar. It really isn't similar at all.

I never saw a defensive reaction in that game that was like 104. Like i don't think he omgus and accused anyone of a chainsaw. Also his votes didn't feel opportunistic in that game.

You seemed to miss that he supplied reasoning for his votes that game instead of hoping it would slip through the cracks.



In the end it's a totally different feel.

[Garmr]

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

Style of posting is similar. It really isn't similar at all.

I never saw a defensive reaction in that game that was like 104. Like i don't think he omgus and accused anyone of a chainsaw. Also his votes didn't feel opportunistic in that game.

You seemed to miss that he supplied reasoning for his votes that game instead of hoping it would slip through the cracks.



In the end it's a totally different feel.

It is similar. Look at the way he quotes people and then gives a response. The FORMAT of the posts is very very close here.

A format doesn't = alignment. There's obviously drastic differences from this game to that game.

[Garmr]

Also, I said the same as Shannon regarding ongoing reads, got a totally different response... Doesn't seem genuine really. Like, I get a pass, shannon gets pressure? Hmmm...

Why point out that the post formatting is the same, if it doesn't mean anything Lickety?

Because its evidence that if he is Scum there is no gaping holes in his game by even appearance of his posts. This indicates someone who would be rather proficient as a Scum player if he is Scum in this game.

I often observe and notice things other people don't consider. This is one of those things.

Honestly his format isn't the same if there's so much difference through.

<<< Refixing the same broken quote tag. >>>

[Garmr]

I think all alone wagon shows that karnos is scum. Basically karnos has been a consistent wagon that has slowly built up on good reasoning and no one town reads him. In fact the only defense has been from LicketyQuickety who null reads him and that was lackluster at best.

Then All alone comes along. Honestly he/she is the perfect lynchbait. He says things that draw negative attention to him/herself.

They do things that get them to much negative attention that scum wouldn't do.

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

Like the bolded here. Seriously what scum player would say this. It's like asking people to look at them.

My scumhunting tactics are really more reactive than proactive, to be honest.

And also, I

do

expect to be held accountable for my opinions, even when my opinion is that I have no scumreads. That's why I came in here and admitted as much.

Why would any scum even say that. Honestly if All alone was scum it would be easier just to place a vote earlier make some bullshit reason and lurk in the back ground and hope the active town will fight among themselves.

[Garmr]

All Alone - 4 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety, PranaDevil, ThinkBig)
quote this for end game but at least 1 scum guaranteed in here.

[Garmr]

All Alone - 4 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety, PranaDevil, ThinkBig)
quote this for end game but at least 1 scum guaranteed in here.

That is something to say at this stage of the game. Mind sharing why you think that? Af far as I can see its baseless.

Oh I just do that sometimes call out a prediction based on my current thoughts I predicted that scum had day chat in one game day 1 before any flips just by looking at posts in game. W

Because look at it this way people have been trying to run counter wagon after counter wagon to the karnos one and they seem to not have enough support. Hell you were one of the counter wagons at one stage.

[Garmr]

Oh That posted before i finished it.

[Garmr]

Garmr who is most likely to be scum on that wagon?

Hmm that's a toughie because tbh while I'm really confident on my karnos scum read the others not so much.

Honestly I think

LQ could be pretty competent scum. His garmr may know angle was presented in a way that it throws shade, His defending karnos but not committing a town read to karnos, He also couldn't adequately defend him with meta so it came off as generic.

Lexa fits more in the null territory. They haven't really done anything to differentiate themselves from the others.

I don't mind pranadevil to be honest my gut tells me they could be town not to sure about this. I just wish he would vote karnos through.

Think don't see many people afraid of putting someone at l-1. It seems weird and then he votes AA that doesn't quite compute. His reads seem generic and following what he preices to be the norm. They seem disposible to me. Also he has karnos as a scum read along with aa and decides to push aa over karnos. This is quite telling to me.

I would probably pick tb as most likely to be scum followed by LQ

[Garmr]

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

Like the bolded here. Seriously what scum player would say this. It's like asking people to look at them.

My scumhunting tactics are really more reactive than proactive, to be honest.

And also, I

do

expect to be held accountable for my opinions, even when my opinion is that I have no scumreads. That's why I came in here and admitted as much.

Why would any scum even say that. Honestly if All alone was scum it would be easier just to place a vote earlier make some bullshit reason and lurk in the back ground and hope the active town will fight among themselves.

AA can get away with that shit as Scum for a few reasons:

1) they don't post frequently
2) the condition of the games state currently
3) personal playstyle

So while your arguments do kinda give me pause, you are still basically just giving a generic argument for why you Town read them which can basically be boiled down to "I don't think they would do that as Scum" which is pretty weak considering all that hinges on the wagon stuff you were talking about.

As an aside, I do kida have that same sorta intuitive kind of playstyle that you are using, but I realize its not "gut" that convinces people that you are right.

Conclusion: be more specific about why you don't think AA would do that as Scum.

Still alot better than your defense of karnos hmph.

But there is one thing I like in this post.

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

I liked this because it resonated with my thought processes.


Honestly through it's a combined thing of

Competing wagons,Timing of the wagon,the amount of attention they getting,lack of anything that actually is scummy and not just negative.

Because If i'm going to be honest I see no real reason to vote him. But I can see typical mafia players (with there thought process being different than mine) how come up with his scum. Because I can somewhat put myself in their shoes. Most of the scum points which people can make can actually be attributed to play style which you brought up.

So a majority of the things that make me town read him are external(other players ect) and gut. But I can at least say there really isn't anything condemning to a player that looks deep unlike karnos who is truly scummy.

Still want to punch you in the face through because when you have shit logic (which you demonstrated multiple times) you are so thick headed. But when you question something of mine you make me question myself even if I still come up with the same conclusion.

[Garmr]

Hmm that's a toughie because tbh while I'm really confident on my karnos scum read the others not so much.

Have we ever played together? Why are you so confident in your read?

Because your obvious scum what a stupid question.

[Garmr]

Karnos, calm your temper, calling someone an asshole only makes me want to PL you now. This is a game where we should be critical of everyone (even town reads), there's no benefit to getting pissed off at some for having a case on you and it doesn't lead to a fun experience for anyone.

What I will say is (without looking back over things as I'm on a phone at the moment... unlimited phone data is good, but no home internet is bad, and I have limited tethering, until Feb 7th most posting will be via the phone, but then will be more careful with data and spread it evenly), I like karnos' point regarding Jordan's complete contradiction. So on that point I want to hear how Jordan plans to explain himself, as it does scream scum forgetting something they said earlier.

I don't normal butt in and I will leave the rest to Jordon to defend but.

Hypocritical and/or double standards doesn't mean scum I have seen town be hypocritical before in even more blatant and in your face ways. 651 is pretty much worthless.

[Garmr]

Will say through a part of 650 is a total garbage if you look back and actually do research of actual quotes not just take so called karnos quotes at face value. You can easily see some warped posts.

[Garmr]

XnadrojX & Garmr share a PT. Probably because they are both scum.

Lol I wish I had a pt with someone But i'm alone this game. Also one of the trashiest responses ever.

[Garmr]

XnadrojX & Garmr share a PT. Probably because they are both scum.

Explain. I still view Jordan as scummy, but not Garmr, so would like to see where you got this conclusion from.

I'd like to see them explain first.

No you can't dodge a question like that bad karnos.

[Garmr]

Wow people believe karnos's fake claim?

[Garmr]

if karnos was really vengeful townie he would of hammered himself and then shot me or jordan. This is clearly a survival move because his afraid of a lynch.

[Garmr]

Garmr that's cool an all, but we have 15 DAYS LEFT!

While I'm in no rush I also don't mind if we lynch since we have like 29 pages. I just don't want the wagon to fall apart.

[Garmr]

Pretty happy with that lynch because karnos is my number 1 scum read. I'm probably dead tonight either way through.

[Garmr]

guys stop being shit town and vote the real scum

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[Garmr]

Reason?

That being said

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Real vote time.

This vote feel opportunistic to me. It' hasn't got real reasoning and I feel like it's on someone he thinks will end up being a wagon.

VOTE: karnos

I don't think It's scummy to have flawed reasoning like Lickety had. Town can be Flawed as well.

Seems like you tried to guess the reasoning, and then assumed I had none afterward. Weird.

If LQ is scum, you are the partner jumping to derail the lynch.

I wasn't scum reading him based on his logic, it was his defensiveness and over-explaining himself that pinged me.

Also, isn't an opportunistic vote usually characterized as jumping on a growing wagon?

Karnos seems to be amateur at being scum. Here you can see him trying link LQ to me. Then latter on he drops the lq read and focus me and jordan both town and made some bullshit excuse to jump off the wagon.

Spoiler: everything I mentioned LQ in

VOTE: karnos

Most bullshit defence ever. This is the few kinds of defence I feel warrants a lynch even more than something like what LQ did.

I'd rather push a karnos wagon

Why I voted karnos. His bad play struck as scum, while I mentioned LQ's play is not with lynching.

Because I feel disgusted at a flawed accusation

Why I interjected. Never have I been told or seen interjection g as being AI.

And another contradiction: you don't say someone is obvious scum and say it's not a solid read

Following up my destruction of his trash case.

I asked for reasons knowing not to take them seriously as well. Does that make me scum?
How do you know they were going to take the reasons seriously?
And why can't they ask for reasons if they are town?
What makes you think they are attempting to push the game forward.
How do you know you aren't taking their post the wrong way?

1) That isn't all you did though.
2) Can you tell me they were not going to? Why would you think that? I see more reason to believe they would than they wouldn't; its the simplest explanation, Occam's Razor.
3) They can, but tbh it looks like a really weird place to ask that. Again, that is all shannon has done. Its a really simple question to ask. The trick is finding out if it is out of place or not and I think it is.
4) I think its a fake way to

look

like you are trying to push the game forward.
5) I could be. Its not a solid read at all. It is, however, an actual starting point out of RVS.

1) that's all you accused him of
2) the onus is on you to explain they were
3) again, onus is on you to say that it's not town rather than just say it's out of place without explaining
4) That could be said of anything, invalid point.
5) then if it's not a solid read why didn't you solidify it or clarify? You just immediately threw the accusation without trying to look at it or pressuring her.

PEdit: clearly you need to go back to a Newbie game for people to take your analysis seriously.

I destroyed his case and threw back a comment at him about Newbieness in counter for HIS comment.

LQ definite town due to not paying enough attention to who's in the game to even direct a vote correctly? Sounds like a plan to me.

vote: Alisae

for reasons. (Hint, they aren't good reasons)

I'm being bullied and I would like to know the reasons ;~;

@Alisae what are the reasons?

Ugh sorry, that was a typing fail.

@PranaDevil - - reasons??

This is actually Scummy I think. There use to be a tell out there that Scum misspell stuff or don't say stuff correctly. I also find it Scummy that they are asking for reasons. Should be clear it is RVS and I don't buy that its an attempt to push the game forward so either they are not very good Town or obvious Scum.

VOTE: shannon

1. That's a bullshit scumtell.
2. Its protown to ask for reasons, would you like it if I voted you right now and called you scummy for asking me why?
3. If it's clear it's RVS to you then you should know that everything is said in a jovial manner until something happens.
4. I don't think you know what obvious scum means.

PEdit: ninjaed point 3

The original destroying of his post

As you can see, my posts mostly indicated how he played badly, over he played scummily.

Karnos in the other hand, I expressed a clear scumread on him, "Most Bullshit defence", "warrants a lynch", "rather push a karnos wagon" was what I said. Here, his play looked opportunistic, hence scummy, while LQ play is simply bad.

At the current moment, karnos not possibly being scumpartners with LQ leads to more reason not to scumread him, as I scumread karnos at the current moment. I'm remaining null instead of a townread, as this still has the small chance of being staged, e.g. LQ puts out the BS case for Karnos to vote and try to start a wagon for town red(I've seen it happen).

I would advise lynching karnos over LQ for above reasons.

Now with all the possible questions I can think of fended off, I am going to move on to other topics.

I TR Alisae for similar reasons to why he is universally TRed, however i would however prefer his vote to be in karnos.

Garmr and Shannon are Town for now, creating active discussion. If Shannon or Garmr was scum, I don't think scum wants to put in the extra effort of creating discussion points and noticing things that probably won't get lynched. However, this is one of the less solid tells, hence the For Now.

Again, everyone voting LQ I suggest swapping to karnos, thanks.

Blah, blah, I'm a horrible player who plays bad.

5) I could be. Its not a solid read at all. It is, however, an actual starting point out of RVS.

Bro, why don't you check out my wiki. I prolly have more wins than you have games played.

Watch lq attack jordan for voting karnos despite never actually town reading karnos.

VOTE: shannon

This vote doesn't count yet, consider this a note to self on who is obviously scum.

I remember you, do you remember me?

<<< I remember you,
You remember me,
We're one big fucked up family~ >>>

@Mod, LOL I was just about to say that Karnos is a null read because the game I played with them in I Scum read them hard core and they were Town and I was too.

Shit reasoning for defending karnos here plus he called jordan shit for scum reading karnos earlier despite lq only having a so called null read on karnos.

Also, for anyone who still thinks this asshole is town, just look at how he is willing to throw his logic in the toilet as soon as he is caught in a contradiction.

He isn't "just" being g aggresive. He's picking up on and pushing things that scum normally dont bother with.

I don't like cases of "scum would/wouldn't do this"
Anything can be shaken off like that.

This is not town thinking.

In 177 XnadrojX is perfectly happy to give Alisae a towny pass for doing stuff

scum wouldn't do

.

In 221 he suddenly took a 180, and is saying he doesn't like cases like "

scum wouldn't do

" something.

I'm still thinking we are smart enough to turn this around and wagon some scum, but if it comes down to a karnos lynch you must promise me you will lynch this asshole as soon as my alignment flips.

This is actually a pretty solid post.

<<< Deleted the double-post. >>>

The post wasn't solid at all I think he was just trying to make his team mate look better and possibly avoid the lynch.


Also lets not forget how he tries to stop alisae from town reading me someone who's apparently null. There is no town motive for what he did before. There is plenty of scum motive through.

His vote on AA was pretty shit. He pretty much described why AA would be null (personal play style)

So Shannon, you're saying that, from your point of view, Jordan's play was like throwing a punch at LQ but holding back so he doesn't get the blame for it?

It's worse. He is throwing shade on LQ, and then when someone (me) took his words seriously he turned around and accused me of being scum jumping on an opportunistic wagon (of course, it was a wagon of 0 at the time I voted).

Why do you say you took nadroj's words seriously here? You said you voted LQ for defensiveness and over-explaining rather than his logic, but as far as I can tell nadroj's "shade throwing" was only based on LQ's logic.

UNVOTE:

don't really want my vote anywhere right now tbh

Like the bolded here. Seriously what scum player would say this. It's like asking people to look at them.

My scumhunting tactics are really more reactive than proactive, to be honest.

And also, I

do

expect to be held accountable for my opinions, even when my opinion is that I have no scumreads. That's why I came in here and admitted as much.

Why would any scum even say that. Honestly if All alone was scum it would be easier just to place a vote earlier make some bullshit reason and lurk in the back ground and hope the active town will fight among themselves.

AA can get away with that shit as Scum for a few reasons:

1) they don't post frequently
2) the condition of the games state currently
3) personal playstyle

So while your arguments do kinda give me pause, you are still basically just giving a generic argument for why you Town read them which can basically be boiled down to "I don't think they would do that as Scum" which is pretty weak considering all that hinges on the wagon stuff you were talking about.

As an aside, I do kida have that same sorta intuitive kind of playstyle that you are using, but I realize its not "gut" that convinces people that you are right.

Conclusion: be more specific about why you don't think AA would do that as Scum.

If you look carefully he didn't display one reason why AA is scum just that he could get away with it as scum. Not why it made him scum.



Finally anyone who is competent enough at this game can connect the dots between him and karnos.

[Garmr]

Man it looks like I have to steer the town to voting obvious scum again today. I feel like town would lose with out me.

[Garmr]

Also my town read on alisae stay on from before nothing has changed it.

[Garmr]

Man it looks like I have to steer the town to voting obvious scum again today. I feel like town would lose with out me.

What makes you think town want to lynch me cuz I really do thing scum is voting me right now.

Everyone seems to be town reading LQ because they are gullible. From what I gather they think his articulate language and indepth sentences = town what you should be looking out for is motives and interactions and reasoning. A lot of what he says is hollow when it comes to gaining anything as town but it seems well explained enough that people will overlook it with out actually noticing the hollow nature of it.

That's what I mean by Leading town.

But if you want to know why people think your scummy it's because you appear inherently scummy no matter your alignment. People attribute your Quirkiness to scum behavior. So I can understand why some people may see you as scum. That being said there is a chance that one scum that has voted you and since I believe lq is the other scum that makes the majority of your wagon town (3 out 4 at the least)

[Garmr]

I now find that there is a large contradiction in LQ's play. (Thanks Gramr, I think I was buddied because I love theory talk )

Well in the theory talk that LQ was explaining to me, he found it very AI the way people posted and that's how he got a read on him. This game he linked was a town game of Karnos. If what LQ says is what he believes, that means he would think Karnos is in fact town but he sat at null. I don't think it was really that hard to understand you either voted for Karnos cuz he was scummy to you or he was town. I find it odd that he remained null for the longest of times...

Oh, and trying to derail a wagon on a person he didn't think was town :p I'll derail any town wagon I see, even at one vote (as I did with ThinkBig), but I actually sometimes vote my null reads (ask Alisae lmfao) because it helps me discover more about their alignment and how they handle the wagon.

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

P-Edit: Mastina notice me

You got described one of the reasoning I was getting at but explained it better than I did and fleshed it out a little more thank you.

[Garmr]

I town read LQ, I don't find Garmr's arguments compelling, I find his quotes heavily cherrypicked, and I have three scum reads on the LQ wagon

Honestly I think your scum reads are pretty shit well the ones on the LQ wagon at least. As alisae,All alone and gin are town reads of mine.


Also your trying to use cherry picking to try and discredit a reasoning? Addressing the reasoning itself would be better lol.

Also you're dodging the interactions between LQ and karnos.

[Garmr]

All these post are taking from your catch up.

LicketyQuickety's 80 is a bad post but with towny reasoning.

LQ definite town due to not paying enough attention to who's in the game to even direct a vote correctly? Sounds like a plan to me.

vote: Alisae

for reasons. (Hint, they aren't good reasons)

I'm being bullied and I would like to know the reasons ;~;

@Alisae what are the reasons?

Ugh sorry, that was a typing fail.

@PranaDevil - - reasons??

This is actually Scummy I think. There use to be a tell out there that Scum misspell stuff or don't say stuff correctly. I also find it Scummy that they are asking for reasons. Should be clear it is RVS and I don't buy that its an attempt to push the game forward so either they are not very good Town or obvious Scum.

VOTE: shannon

How is this townie? I know townie can have bad logic but still I would take this as null. He also literally called out their behavior as null and still voted them anyway.

<3 LQ for being open minded about WIFOM as a legit hunting tactic

I'm TRing Lickety cuz he's asking good questions that progress the game and I've been always SRing Jordan so I hopped there.
You sure scum would accuse someone of doing the exact same thing that they just did? That doesn't make sense to me.

pedit: Good shit LQ.

I don't like cases of "scum would/wouldn't do this"

Anything can be shaken off like that.

Then you are really going to hate the way I get reads.

I do this by constantly matching up whether its more likely to come from Scum or Town. I do this by getting a picture of who that person is and use that to read if they would likely say that as Town or Scum.

adds nothing to the game should be taken as null so if your using this as a point then you fail.

Liking LQs analysis in 327. Garmr has been giving me a weird vibe I can't put my finger on yet from his posts to this point so I appreicate LQ helping me not think I'm crazy.

You are getting a weird vibe from yet you are still town reading me. Also lq analysis was scummy as fuck. He went out of his way to smudge a null reads reputation not a town read. Honestly not going to bother posting the walls of conversation we had.

Really liking LQs explanations of his alternative ways of analyzing things as in 373

Those voting Karnos, I want you to look at this game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=66922

His behavior in that game is different from this one. How does this apply to this game.
In that game he displays none of the reasoning why people are scum reading him in this game.

Do you have a town read on karnos and why?

The style of posting is very very similar from that game to this one, that is what I notice.

Nope, I have a Null read on him.

Style of posting is similar. It really isn't similar at all.

I never saw a defensive reaction in that game that was like 104. Like i don't think he omgus and accused anyone of a chainsaw. Also his votes didn't feel opportunistic in that game.

You seemed to miss that he supplied reasoning for his votes that game instead of hoping it would slip through the cracks.



In the end it's a totally different feel.

It is similar. Look at the way he quotes people and then gives a response. The FORMAT of the posts is very very close here.

You can't be serious lol. He literally made a empty reason to try and throw off the scum reads on karnos with out actually down facts. The formats similar to his town game? You can't be even more vague. I even pointed out the differences between that game and this and he backed out of it. This is the worst reason to town read someone ever.

Gin is really bugging my weird strings. The whole stretch of posts leading up to 389 is so odd. I can see scum!Gin latching onto LQ as someone getting town read and attempting to link LQs credo to his own by suggesting they "town-jam" together. Without having pushed much in the way of town posts hismself I can't see where town!Gin makes that suggestion.

Don't see how this make lq town and I don't agree with gin read.

I disagree with LQ at 487 but his posts have increasingly solidified a town read.

^^This is saying I'm interested in your theory work and want to learn it :p

I feel like he said

"oh yeah, I'm Scum /S."

"Wait a minute, that might be a bad idea to admit that, I should prolly just say I am Town."

Its like kinda an over explanation that shows he's not thinking cool and calm. Its too... spammy for something that is just "Are you Town"

This is just a theroy not a town point since you said you made several points i'm going to guess this is one.

I really like LQs defense of ThinkBig following the above post, in particular 600. I really appreciate his alternative methods and they seem very town oriented to me.

What is the town motivation behind going for AA now and the town motivation for the 180?
Hell, what's the town motivation behind not even putting their vote on AA but saying they are willing to PL it. Doesn't a PL take priority above all else?

He is reevaluating a slot that would be really easy to stay on as Scum.

Honestly his whole defense of thinkbig doesn't ring town for me as scum can just pocket players by defending them and he hasn't actually got any real scum hunting feats. It could go either way for this point


Honestly you seem like your town reading LQ for his competence and language instead of what he has actually done.

[Garmr]

So in the no reason to town read LQ got yah.

[Garmr]

For you, apparently not

<<< Truth is just a matter of perspective. >>>

[Garmr]

Also I love ThinkBig so much, he's my number one

A lynch already that was faster than expected I actually wanted to hear lq defend himself and see if he slipped anything.

[Garmr]

Yuck. I absolutely hate the LQ wagon. I hate everything about it. We need to slow down today.

I am hard scum reading garmr. I hate how he derailed the Alisae wagon. I hate how we rushed it and didn't even give LQ a chance to defend himself.

Like no offense but I didn't expect lq to be a shit town.

From my point of view he was protecting scum (karnos) and he was putting shade on me (I know i am town) and I been scum reading him from day 1 for a variety. He deserved his lynch. Maybe he will learn his lesson when he reads the spoiler just let people interact with null reads naturally. If he doesn't and he pulls that shit again I will lynch him again. Also despite me being wrong I still think LQ was working against town.

Also I fucking find it hilarious you are trying to call me fucking scum it was me who spotted karnos and it was me who fucking drove him to a lynch.


Pedit:Alisae is town I just know it prana

[Garmr]

What in the hell was that all about? I go to bed confident we have scum strung up, and wake up to seeing you all go sodding nuts and lynch LQ! What the hell?!

However, we at least gained some much needed information with that lynch, along with information from before.

First, I don't see Garmr doing that as scum, and definitely not to lynch a VT, scum gain nothing by being so heavy on a town lynch, especially one that could be directed back at them. Garmr is, at least in my mind, confirmed town from this point forward.

I'm also going to say, there was definitely scum on there, it would be unlikely for that wagon to get that much steam without at least one scum giving it a nudge forward at an opportune time, which brings me to the same person who should have been yesterday's lynch...

Alisae.

100%, may as well at this point be waving a great big flag saying "scum is here, lynch me please".

What's that? You want a case? Sure, here it is:

First, everything from Day 1, which has been done to death regarding the fact he blatantly attempted to derail the karnos wagon, but to sum up:

1 - Shows intent to hammer post #680

2 - Believes karnos' fake claim, yet still says karnos is a great lynch post #690 and post #700

3 - Uses the argument that there's much more time to "hunt" day 1 post #705

The intent to hammer doesn't match with there being more time to hunt, and the believing of the claim doesn't match with him being a "great lynch". Both of these are mutually exclusive from the other.

Alisae, talk about Prana and explain that read, I'm not letting you vote thinkbig

First thing to note: They scumread Karnos but they voted LQ.
Second thing to note: They scumread Karnos but then voted AA
Third thing to note: They finally voted Karnos.
Forth thing to note: They attack me because they think that I slipped that I knew Karnos was town when he clearly did not flip town. They were pushing a slip that wasn't a slip.
Fifth thing to note: They admit that that was a mistake but they still push me anyway.
Sixth thing to note: Where are they currently? Hiding under all the drama I'm making.

This is a huge pile of bullshit as well. It's quite clear Alisae is ignoring the entire reason i admitted a mistake, yet continued to push him, purely to make it seem like I'm in the wrong. Evidence? Provided.

Alisae quite obviously wanted that wagon to dissipate and move elsewhere, I'll happily admit I cocked up royally (hey, I was at a gaming group when I read things first, then was knackered when I got home, I'll refrain from reading/posting when doing stuff or being tired in future, and you may all slap me if I deviate from this), and the push on Alisae, while a correct push, was the wrong reasoning. Alisae is scum along with karnos, and I'd be happy to lynch this way, but a karnos lynch is a huge preference as the wagon should not fall apart.

That's snipped from the end of a longer post I made where I admitted the mistae I made the night prior due to being tired, and not reading it thoroughly.

We lynch Alisae today, no ifs or buts, I'm ot letting scum get away again.

Also, EBWOP, TB, I understand your reasoning regarding Garmr getting the lynch away from Alisae, and it is something to keep in mind, but what positives does scum Garmr get from making himself a viable lynch today by being so obvious and vocal with the lynch? I don't even mind rushed lynches at times. If the scum is obvious (Alisae), we should keep scum from finding out any additional information that would lead to finding out about a power role.

Speaking of which... All Alone's only actions D1 were to vote Alisae and vote LQ, which makes me wonder if he had already used one of his roles on Alisae, and was happy to lynch LQ with the evidence provided, and come back to Alisae on a later day. It wouldn't be the correct play, (always lynch known scum) but I can see an argument for how convincing the LQ lynch was.

vote: Alisae

Scum is most likely In shannon,think big and/or BBt. Alisae has down worse shit as town in the past and I can see alisae doing this as town.

[Garmr]

Would like to point out think bigs hammer of karnos voting behaviour is worse than alisaes.

VOTE: Karnos

L-1

<<< Yes, this was in fact L-1. This time. >>>

Policy lynch.

He puts him to l-1 for a policy lynch (shitty excuse.)

after making up a shit excuse about not wanting to end the day early he unvotes karnos and tries to run up prana as a counter wagon.

VOTE: PranaDevil

I really don't like the shades that he is attempting to throw on Alisae. His blatant misrepresentation of what Alisae was saying in order to read him as scum. Don't like that one bit.

P-edit: Excellent point, Gin.

Also at this point his defending alisae and the points his making on alisae were brought up day 1 which makes think his only shifting his veiws for people likely to be lynched.

Permission to hammer?

VOTE: Karnos

That's a hammer.

Like even through he says he scum reads karnos at this point all his language has been about him policy lynching karnos and did not provide one reason karnos was scum or one reason he agreed with.



With observation of voting behaviors every time it looked like karnos has the chance to live he jumped off the wagon. it wasn't until all alone put the final nail in the coffin did think big jump back on it seeing no other way out of voting his buddy.


VOTE: thinkbig

[Garmr]

it is also possible pep is scum but I am unsure on the slot. Can we have bumps on pep or a replacement

<<< Pepchoninga is not eligible for replacement. For Pepchoninga to be eligible for a replacement, either Pepchoninga needs to specifically request replacement...
...Or, I must issue a prod to Pepchoninga, and have Pepchoninga fail to respond to the prod.

I cannot prod a player until 72 hours into the day.

Day Two lasted less than 24 hours, and thus, Pepchoninga continues to be ineligible for a prod, yet alone, replacement. >>>

[Garmr]

Alisae is today's lynch.

Am I the only person surprised that All Alone died and Real G&T are still alive?

You are not the only one surprised.

I'm going to go ahead and claim now as my death is pretty much in the near future.

I'm another town JOAT, I have a a Cop/Gunsmith/Neapolitan shot and used the first two.

ThinkBig is 100% town, hence why D2, I was saying how much I loved Thinkbig so incase I die, I had crumbs to hint at who invested.

I used the Gunsmith on BBT, he is also clear.

The Neapolitan shot, I really don't know the use for but hell I got it.

UNVOTE: think big

that good to know still it irks me that he has the audictiy to accuse me of being scum.

[Garmr]

I town read him so freaking hard tho, I knew in my SOUL that he was town and then Garmr told me why LQ could be scum and I liked the smell of it and took off lol

Also fuck you for putting all the blame on me. I am town I don't know who's who i can only guess. If my case didn't make sense then lq wouldn't of got lynched. It's LQ on fault he played bad.

[Garmr]

Let's try and form a solid town block and try to eliminate possible scum mates from the remaining pool.

@Garmr, I still think you are scum. Sorry.

Knowing your town only makes me fucking angry at your shitty case.

[Garmr]

I town read him so freaking hard tho, I knew in my SOUL that he was town and then Garmr told me why LQ could be scum and I liked the smell of it and took off lol

Also fuck you for putting all the blame on me. I am town I don't know who's who i can only guess. If my case didn't make sense then lq wouldn't of got lynched. It's LQ on fault he played bad.

I think we still learned information from the LQ wagon and his flip.

Also, why do you still have Alisae as town?

Becuase of this game

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=4100

[Garmr]

Let's try and form a solid town block and try to eliminate possible scum mates from the remaining pool.

@Garmr, I still think you are scum. Sorry.

Knowing your town only makes me fucking angry at your shitty case.

Your reaction to my FOS and SR on you makes my scum read on you even stronger.

I don't give a fuck learn to play then.

[Garmr]

It's just ended recently so I can officially talk about it.

[Garmr]

Also it should be obvious I'm town I was the one who lynched karnos who made the best case who keeped him on track. Me not you guys That was all my hard work. Karnos wouldn't of been dead he wouldn't of flailed if not for me. His omgus reaction alone should tell you I'm town. I'm the only one with out any fucking role who actually put in the hard work and convinced people to lynch scum.

[Garmr]

You think my play is shorty and yet you're the one who is town reading someone based on a previous game? Give me a fucking break.

Also you don't believe in meta? Lol when you play enough with someone and look into their past games you get a feel for them.

So lets say alisae flips town will you admit your fucking shit at mafia?

[Garmr]

Honestly I think the case on alisae is bullshit

Because honestly you guys fail to see one thing. It's entirely possible that near the end of the day alisae was being indecisive. You to are guilty of this when you chickened when karnos claimed vengeful townie. Then delivered some bullshit policy thing.

You know once alisae flips town which I believe he will I will spend half of tomorrow taunting you then actually lynching real scum. Then if I get lynched you will see me flip town and then realize you are bad at this game.

[Garmr]

You think my play is shorty and yet you're the one who is town reading someone based on a previous game? Give me a fucking break.

Also you don't believe in meta? Lol when you play enough with someone and look into their past games you get a feel for them.

So lets say alisae flips town will you admit your fucking shit at mafia?

Also it should be obvious I'm town I was the one who lynched karnos who made the best case who keeped him on track. Me not you guys That was all my hard work. Karnos wouldn't of been dead he wouldn't of flailed if not for me. His omgus reaction alone should tell you I'm town. I'm the only one with out any fucking role who actually put in the hard work and convinced people to lynch scum.

"Bus"

you think I bussed karnos you are to cute.

[Garmr]

You know what if your going to be that ungrateful for me actually hunting scum and actually defending against two mislynches i'm replacing out.




You ruined the game for me think I was a vanilla townie learn to play *u**.

[Garmr]

I put my soul in this game and tried my hardest not my fault lq was shit and working against town (final post)

[Garmr]

Just so you know I'm quitting mafia for good.

[Garmr]

Interesting night kill. We need to slow down.

Gin, who did you target and what was your results?

They Probally keeped you alive Becuase they thought you could mislynch another town aka me

Then again I decided I would stay gone if alisae flipped scum so I was like 70% sure he was town. Just feels good being right another reason I stayed.

[Garmr]

Will appoligise for yesterdays drama had a good weekend so will be better.

[Garmr]

Here is another scum game from pep.

You said meta was shit then proceeded to use meta of a game I was part of and you weren't which I brought up earlier as an example. Is this because you were wrong about alisae?

Also I will stop giving you shit for mislynching alisae halfway through the day.

[Garmr]

Understand. Sorry for butting heads with you last DP.

I am also sorry

[Garmr]

Have you read what Gin and I have discussed so far? How do you feel about Lexa and Shannon, especially after Lexa has been found to

not

be a vanilla town, as she originally claimed?

I haven't really thought much about Lexa. But I had shannon on a slight scum read because of poe on the LQ wagon.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, would you mind claiming?

vanilla town.

[Garmr]

@Lexa, why did you lie about being VT and why do you TR Shannon?

Claiming roleblocker (All Alone --> Pepchoninga --> Garmr). As far as I was concerned Alisae's claim was blatantly faked and designed to try and direct pressure away from him, I wasn't about to give (what I thought was) the scum team free information. Didn't expect a town to lie about their role so many times, though. Aimed my roleblock at my strongest scum reads n1 and n2 and then at Garmr n3 who I had concerns about "quitting but not really" as scum to avoid targeting given he'd been seen as more suspicious near the end of the day.

Town read on shannon was primarily based on their posting motivations (ref page 933 in my iso), their posts seemed almost exclusively town motivated from day 1 and in particular I didn't see any reason they would post the voting associations is 637 as they did. I haven't noticed anything since my catchup post that really enforces that position though, they've fallen a bit under my radar probably due to the short days and I'm thinking I'll have to take a closer look at them tomorrow. @anyone who's played with her, is she capable to pull of a deep-cover scum game like this?

Role blocker in this set up is pretty much a scum claim.

VOTE: lexa

[Garmr]

Scrapped my original writing, in my sleepless state even I couldn't work out what i was saying, and the Lexa stuff brings to light some other stuff.

First off, I'm happy to view Gin and TB as confirmed town. My reasoning for this is that Gin could only be lying if BBT was scum. Otherwise Gin would have been scum praying BBT wasn't a vig. As BBT was vanilla town, Gin is town for certain, which means TB is as well, so look at these guys only to see why they're being kept alive, as I'm confused.

That leaves:
Lexa, Myself, shannon, Pep and Garmr

This is where focus has to be for the remainder of the game.

This is where I want to do vote analysis of the lynches.

Day 1:

karnos

(scum)
Garmr,

XnadrojX

,

BlueBloodedToffee

, PranaDevil,

All Alone

, shannon,

ThinkBig

We know Jordan, BBT, AA and TB are town, which leaves:
Garmr, Myself, shannon

I'm going to be certain that someone was bussing to attempt to make sure they got town points, so one of those three is scum.

Day 2:

LQ

(town)
Garmr,

All Alone

,

Alisae

, shannon,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

,

BlueBloodedToffee

We know AA, Alisae, Gin and BBT are town, which leaves:
Garmr, shannon

I'm not accepting there was no scum on this wagon either, which means combined with day 1, one of these two is scum, for certain. That wagon took off way too quick for scum not to be aiding it.

Day 3:

Alisae

(town)
PranaDevil,

BlueBloodedToffee

,

ThinkBig

, Lexa,

TheRealGin-N-Tonic

Again, known town are BBT, TB and Gin, leaving:
Myself, Lexa

Based on Gin's response from his check of Lexa, I'm more than happy to accept Lexa scum on this (I'm more than happy to accept that to anyone else this would be me wanting to lynch not-me, but Gin's investigation result should help confirm this)

So the most likely scum comes down to:

one of Garmr/shannon thanks to day 1 and 2
one of me/Lexa thanks to day 3

Lynch among this pool and we win.

Also, I'm not voting until Pep posts today, I don't want a lynch before he posts, so I refuse to place a vote until he does for fear of another quick lynch. But for all intents and purposes, based on the fact it's clearly between me and Lexa from day 3, and Gin's investigation, my vote is on Lexa. However for obvious reasons I could accept a lynch of shannon or Garmr. But to me, Lexa is more confirmed scum than the 50/50 chance of Garmr/shannon.

I can agree with a majority of this logic. But it ignores the possibilty of pep being scum despite him not being here.

[Garmr]

We also already discussed the NKA, it's evident that scum are picking off the quiet people as they don't verbalize their reads meaning they're informationless kills.

That theory does actually make sense when you also take into regard I confirmed BBT and he later died as he then fit the two requirements of 1) Being quiet; and 2) Be conf!town

Add on the fact that they were the ones supporting me (bbt to a lesser extent just he had a town read on me.).

[Garmr]

Also 2 joats I may believe but 3 nah uh who ever balanced the game with 3 joats would be shot.

[Garmr]

This game was reviewed by mhsmith0, Firebringer, and Cheery Dog.

bang bang hahaaa

not fire bringer his my friend.

[Garmr]

Garmr has always been my strongest town read, so off that alone i'd say shannon seems more likely scum.

I also really do not like how she tried to make out Gin and TB were scum considering I even went over why that's not possible (BBT flipped vanilla, and being as Gin used his gunsmith on him, it would be way too risky to claim that as scum if it turned out BBT was a vig or something).

On the flip side, Garmr pushed heavily for LQ's lynch, wanted to lynch TB yesterday, and then threw a massive hissy fit that amounted to "I was on the karnos wagon, I lynched scum, I can't be scum", with a side of "if it wasn't for me karnos wouldn't have been lynched", which I feel is taking a lot of credit where it's not necessarily due, as lots of people were pushing karnos, and his seeming meltdown didn't help his cause either, if anything he lynched himself.

So, I favour shannon as a lynch over Garmr on that side of things.

Also shannon, I'd like to hear from you regarding my statement about the BBT/Gin stuff (namely Gin-scum having to do guesswork above)

I know this is bad and i'm a little ashamed but I throw hissy fits all the time no matter my alignment I wouldn't take it as a town tell or a scum tell.

[Garmr]

I do feel like this game can be solved from poe now so i'm quite happy.

[Garmr]

Lexa's voting looks a bit suspicious because with the exception of Alisae, she's always on someone who has almost 0 chance of being lynched.

Vote Count Theory for ya, scum are always at least on one large wagon and one wagon that will never go anywhere

I have had all town day 1 wagons before they are uncommon but they do happen. If it happened this game probably not but keep that in mind for future games.

[Garmr]

Also remember that this is a scum wagon, scum love to bus scum.

That is true.

[Garmr]

Alisae - 5 (PranaDevil, BlueBloodedToffee, ThinkBig, Lexa, TheRealGin-N-Tonic)[/color]
Lexa - 1 (Alisae)

What happened here? Did Prana fake a guilty on Alisae?

town went full derp here and made the shittest reason for lynching alisae.

[Garmr]

The original reasoning was shit "saying he believed karnos yet changing his mind after a couple of hours." I didn't even see the fake guilty on lexa but this isn't even scummy it's just stupid.

[Garmr]

My case on lq was a lot better and had merit even through I was wrong. Lq was furthering the scum win condition in my opinion and was better off dead. Alisae was just derp the case on him shit and at best newbie game quality. You can probably tell i'm bitter about things.

[Garmr]

Garmr, your thoughts on Devil and Shannon?

my thoughts are devil is probably town and shannon is scum. Lexa is scum as I don't see the point in roleblocker and I do't see why a roleblocker would lie about their role.

[Garmr]

I have been thinking that scum probally have a rolecop as they would have no reason to kill allone after all the cases against him.

I would look for players who dropped there scum read of him day 2.

[Garmr]

I have been thinking that scum probally have a rolecop as they would have no reason to kill allone after all the cases against him.

I would look for players who dropped there scum read of him day 2.

I will say they were bad cases but bad cases seem to get lynches.

[Garmr]

I still think lexa is scum.

[Garmr]

OK, lynch me first and then Lexa.

If you are going to assume I'm scum and lynch me tomorrow, after Lexa today, we pretty much lose. At least if you lynch me first you get to consider the rest of the data in light of my actual flip, and not what you're assuming my flip will be.

If Lexa is scum it's clear she's not getting away with it, by my flip should at least show you that I acted like I said I did and that my thoughts on others are genuine.

There's also something you haven't considered yet: My claim is that I have protected Gin the past two nights. If I were scum, I would have instead killed Gin when he claimed, no?

If lexa is scum that adds a extra day unless you think lexa is town?

[Garmr]

If I'm right and Gin is playing us then yeah Lexa is town. At the moment though frankly I'm throwing my hands in the air!

Can I ask you a question why would you even think she's town when you consider your role (if you're town)?

lexa roleblock is a counter claim to your jailkeep shot and if you are a joat doesn't mesh with the flipped roles.

Lets say that mastina for shit and giggles made every town power role joat that would pretty much confirm lexa as scum.

[Garmr]

If I'm right and Gin is playing us then yeah Lexa is town. At the moment though frankly I'm throwing my hands in the air!

You can also read gin hard defending tb day 2 in retrosepct it's easy to see. His actions measure up with his claims.

I honestly think lexa is just derp scum.

[Garmr]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

[Garmr]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

You yourself said the possibility

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or

Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

I already declared I think both are scum.

[Garmr]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

You yourself said the possibility

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or

Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

I already declared I think both are scum.

Even if you think that, having Lexa at l minus 1 before finishing massclaim is dumb and you know it.

If you're wrong, we enter lylo with at least 1 unclaimed slot.

I honestly don't care if prana claims or not.

Also shame on you, you have been on this site longer than me so you should know by now rebellious doesn't = scum.

[Garmr]

I think Lexa is a better lynch because:
1. He lied about his role (I am a firm believer in lynching all liars, that is unless a doctor or cop claims VT in order to investigate and avoid the NK);

So you're okay with lying if you think it's justified. Do you not think I was justified given my reasoning?

Given all we've discussed I think the best option is to

lynch shannon

, her claim being a functional cc to my claim makes

it very unlikely we both are town

I can agree on this post. only difference is i think you are both scum.

This is opportunistic as fuck.

We have a dead rolecop.

Gin claimed a cop type role.

ThinkBig has postulated a follower.

This just lets you lynch all the PRs. Chill.

You yourself said the possibility

Also, why is Lexa at L-1 when:

I was asked to unvote her earlier when I put her at L-1
We are all waiting to hear about Titus' VC, and Titus has indicated she thinks Lexa might not be scum
Gin, who you are all saying is conf town, is also starting to be a bit up in the air about Lexa

Town posting or

Lexa buddy.

I do have a couple concerns on Gin but they are role related.

I already declared I think both are scum.

Even if you think that, having Lexa at l minus 1 before finishing massclaim is dumb and you know it.

If you're wrong, we enter lylo with at least 1 unclaimed slot.

I honestly don't care if prana claims or not.

Also shame on you, you have been on this site longer than me so you should know by now rebellious doesn't = scum.

You're Devil's buddy aren't you?

You unvote when I move momentum away from Lexa and try to speed rush her lynch when I try to get a Devil claim?

No i'm town I just see you fucking town over. Unlike scum I don't have control over the night kill and today might be the only day i can get enough support to lynch scum.

My votes still on lexa honestly you should actually read the game because you are fucking town over by not doing so.

[Garmr]

Also that should confirm me as town since i don't think titus has never got my alignment right.

[Garmr]

I could vote Prana if she doesn't claim at this point. I don't want any late game shenanigans

This. So much this.

Now that Garmr has reduced to shading me when he initially backed off Lexa, it further confirms my suspicions.

I never backed of lexa lol wtf are you reading. I been pushing her lynch.

[Garmr]

After the claim tho Titus, I do need you to give reads based on day play.

You already have them. Devil and Garmr are the scums barring a jarring claim.

This is what I was afraid of you just ruining easily winnable games. Your just a tool of scum with a green text.

[Garmr]

How so Garmr?

Titus accused me of chainsawing to protect prana. Which just makes her doubt her actually knowledge of the game.
1.claims i unvoted lexa and revoted her. (I didn't that was thinkbig and his confirmed town by you)
2.claims i want to speed lynch lexa to make sure prana doesn't claim.
3.she thinks the mod would actually 3 joats and roleblocker in a mininormal for town or you know she hasn't fucking read the game.

I been pushing that lexa and shannon are scum since the start of today on the grounds of wagon analysis. Poe due to lexa role and how she lied about being it and shannon because of vote placements.

It's also possible that lexa is lying about the extent of her role if she is scum and she has limitations. She's probably trying to bend the truth a bit to look more town.

[Garmr]

After the claim tho Titus, I do need you to give reads based on day play.

You already have them. Devil and Garmr are the scums barring a jarring claim.

This is what I was afraid of you just ruining easily winnable games. Your just a tool of scum with a green text.

Then what's the harm in Devil claiming to help me get set?

Why does Lexa need to be lynched before I reach that understanding?

There's no harm but what's the point in voting someone over it when you could actually vote scum. Tell me do you honestly think scum would rebel in prana position (near universal town reads before you came and all the roles already claimed.)


Also what's the objective as scum when every power has been said and told and explained what it's used on. In the current situation the best claim would be vanilla town.

His town motive could be trying to create wifom to make scum shoot him instead.


Just think for once titus below the surface thank you.

[Garmr]

How so Garmr?

Titus accused me of chainsawing to protect prana. Which just makes her doubt her actually knowledge of the game.
1.claims i unvoted lexa and revoted her. (I didn't that was thinkbig and his confirmed town by you)
2.claims i want to speed lynch lexa to make sure prana doesn't claim.
3.she thinks the mod would actually 3 joats and roleblocker in a mininormal for town or you know she hasn't fucking read the game.

I been pushing that lexa and shannon are scum since the start of today on the grounds of wagon analysis. Poe due to lexa role and how she lied about being it and shannon because of vote placements.

It's also possible that lexa is lying about the extent of her role if she is scum and she has limitations. She's probably trying to bend the truth a bit to look more town.

Oh god the urge to smartass this is rising.

Being a smart ass requires being smart. Being smart would mean you would get your facts straight.

[Garmr]

Let's not have late game shenanigans

I will agree that claiming would be better. I don't really care through because his probably a vanilla townie who thinks his being edgy.

I just don't want the same type of shit logic (pretty much titus whole posts this page) to happen that lynched alisae.

[Garmr]

Just think, if Prana claims a PR role, that means scum are forced to kill her. They then know that TB and I are alive and are conf!town.

That leaves a

A 2 conf!town vs 2 scum vs 1 unknown if we fuck up this lynch and go to LyLo.

It is a possibility that he is a power role. But i'm not going to vote a town read to force them to claim.

[Garmr]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

True Still I don't care to much because I think this game is already solved.

[Garmr]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

Other than not claiming can you tell me why prana is scum titus?

[Garmr]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

Other than not claiming can you tell me why prana is scum titus?

Vca.

Oh really how so?

[Garmr]

Well at this point I believe there is only benefit to her claiming.

This. With TB being lock death tonight, what's the harm?

Other than not claiming can you tell me why prana is scum titus?

Vca.

Oh really how so?

Read my entry posts. Mr. I'm so smart Titus should read.

You're deflecting from mass claim happening today

Leaning town on PranaDevil

, because of the fact scum are not jumping onto karnos

I'm at the end of day 1, and I'm leaning towards a Prana flip.

What was your N1 result Pine?

You basically went from prana is town to prana is scum with out explaining it

Alisae - 3 (PranaDevil, nydushermain, shannon)
XnadrojX - 2 (karnos, Alisae)
karnos - 2 (Garmr, XnadrojX)

Garmr and the three names on Alisae have major scumpoints to here, but there is little to zero chance that there are two scum on the Alisae wagon, as they'd likely jump onto X wagon

Also what kind of logic is this i'm scum for starting the wagon on scum?

[Garmr]

your vca is shallow and has no reasoning behind it. So i ask again do you have any reasoning for prana being scum?

[Garmr]

Your vca and your scum reads contridict each other as well. (from post 1442) for example and these two posts

Alisae - 3 (PranaDevil, nydushermain, shannon)
XnadrojX - 2 (karnos, Alisae)
karnos - 2 (Garmr, XnadrojX)

Garmr

and the three names on Alisae have major scumpoints to here, but there is little to zero chance that there are two scum on the Alisae wagon, as they'd likely jump onto X wagon

karnos - 6 (Garmr, XnadrojX, BlueBloodedToffee, TheRealGin-N-Tonic, PranaDevil, ThinkBig)[/color]
All Alone - 2 (Lexa, LicketyQuickety)
ThinkBig - 2 (shannon, Alisae)
LicketyQuickety - 1 (All Alone)
XnadrojX - 1 (karnos)

Not Voting - 2 (Pepchoninga)

This ending suggests a

mass bus after the scum failed to get a town wagon to counter.

Although, if I'm candid, I'd suspect my slot for not even trying during this wagon. The lack of a counter = ineffective scum or lurker scum.

We have ineffective scum here and I know that because I am in the slot of lurker.

So again reasoning that aren't your provenenly shit vca?

[Garmr]

*shrug* It's pretty clear I view the d1 wagon on Karnos as a bus becayse scum failed to get a counter.

You can get melodramatic because I am playing correctly, or you can just actually listen.

you said it was a failed bus wagon but you said the buses were late.

[Garmr]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

[Garmr]

What I am saying is that from a scum perspective, if I was scum with lexa (which I am obviously not) I'd have attempted to hard bus her.

Unless her scum buddy wasn't around. Also titus has a tendency to defend her scum when she shouldn't.

[Garmr]

Pine, I do have to ask.

You have a rolecop allegedly. There's a dead rolecop. Nothing you've done cannot be faked. I don't believe it is. I do have to ask though.

we have 3 dead joats with a varity of powers are you getting your information from the scum qt?

[Garmr]

Pine, I do have to ask.

You have a rolecop allegedly. There's a dead rolecop. Nothing you've done cannot be faked. I don't believe it is. I do have to ask though.

we have 3 dead joats with a varity of powers are you getting your information from the scum qt?

1 dead joat and two alive joats. I believe shannons claim now.

[Garmr]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

Because prana devil is town It's fucking obvious to people with half a brain. This is like alisae all over again.

[Garmr]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

Because prana devil is town It's fucking obvious to people with half a brain. This is like alisae all over again.

So you're supposing I'm lynching Prana Devil rather than claim allegedly. Great, why don't you suppose Devil claims and we just end this?

1 Because I don't think devils even been on or at least hasn't posted.
2.Not claiming isn't a scum thing to do as it doesn't benefit scum look at how many people turned against him. It's just as stupid to do as scum as it is as town.

[Garmr]

Trying to bring Garmr into the conversation. Him just totally ignoring the push for Devil to claim is weird as fuck. Does he even want my claim? Like what the fork? He's pushing me as bad town. Ok, why isn't he spending more time on scum rather than trying to make me seem bad confusing?

Are you fucking kidding me I joined the conversation ages ago. That's it official you are fucking scum and lexa is your scum buddy that you are trying to chainsaw for.

You have been caught trying to twist events twice the first time I can forgive since i thought you were mistaken (saying that I unvoted when I didn't) but then you ignored evidence of that and acted like i did now you lie and say that I'm avoiding conversation when I went balls deep opposing a vote pranadevil. You trying to twist events isn't town you. Your vca doesn't match with your reads either you are obvious scum titus. Tomorrow I'm making this one the one in mylo by instantly voting you.

And you know we're reaching Mylo because?

Because prana devil is town It's fucking obvious to people with half a brain. This is like alisae all over again.

So you're supposing I'm lynching Prana Devil rather than claim allegedly. Great, why don't you suppose Devil claims and we just end this?

1 Because I don't think devils even been on or at least hasn't posted.
2.Not claiming isn't a scum thing to do as it doesn't benefit scum look at how many people turned against him. It's just as stupid to do as scum as it is as town.

Dude he's replied to the wagon here. He's seen it.

It's anti-town as fuck. The wifom argument noted and dispensed.

Why would scum do x? It brings them heat.

He doesn't want to claim because he doesn't know what to claim.

Oh yeah missed 1636 other reason still stand through.

Maybe it's a difference in attitude but antitown=/=scum I won't place my vote on someone I consider antitown all it does is give scum a free lynch.

[Garmr]

Thinkbig, can it, let Titus do her thing.

No I too want to hear titus answer.

[Garmr]

I want a clear answer I don't want her to wifom a result on him then go nah I didn't have a result guys.

[Garmr]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

Which post?

Broken record answer. Reread these last two pages.

Just post it again or post the link to posts you want me to look at. I obviously didn't get the hint in the past two pages even after a quick reskim.

[Garmr]

But for the record, I've already answered that too.

Which post?

Broken record answer. Reread these last two pages.

Just post it again or post the link to posts you want me to look at. I obviously didn't get the hint in the past two pages even after a quick reskim.

I wasn't talking to you. I don't want you to know. You'll tell Devil what to say.

Are you an idiot? It's a public forum he will hear it in thread.

[Garmr]

I see what you did there

No offence gin but you should be really thinking right now if you think titus has a guilty.


Because then claimed roles are

joat role cop varitions plus fruit vender
joat cop varitions
joat dr varitions
roleblocker
titus supposed role that makes gin want



It pretty much confirms that one of the power roles proposed is lying about their role or alignment. Town would not have this much power.

[Garmr]

I see what you did there

No offence gin but you should be really thinking right now if you think titus has a guilty.


Because then claimed roles are

joat role cop varitions plus fruit vender
joat cop varitions
joat dr varitions
roleblocker
titus supposed role that makes gin want



It pretty much confirms that one of the power roles proposed is lying about their role or alignment. Town would not have this much power.

Balance whine when I haven't even claimed officially. Priceless.

Shh town talk only sweet heart.

[Garmr]

Garmr, why are you trying to discredit a claim before one has even claimed?

It's not that i'm trying to discredit it I just experienced this type of shit from before they are vague and make it seem like they have a result and then they go back on it when the lynch going oh you just assumed I did. I want her to put a stance down so I can figure out whats going on.

[Garmr]

Your conclusion would also imply that my vote on All Alone was opportunistic lynch bait and I'm quite confident that he wasn't lynch bait but rather a genuine lynch candidate in my eyes given my post analysis.

All alone was a trash vote tbh like alisae. I went on a limb and defends this stance before yet again I was ignored.

[Garmr]

Garmr, why are you trying to discredit a claim before one has even claimed?

It's not that i'm trying to discredit it I just experienced this type of shit from before they are vague and make it seem like they have a result and then they go back on it when the lynch going oh you just assumed I did. I want her to put a stance down so I can figure out whats going on.

Nah, let Prana deal with it himself. Prana doesn't need you to defend himself.

Look you seem nice but I need to vent a little sorry

You have pretty much annoyed me multiple times this game and I feel pissed off at you now. First was your behaviour around karnos's flip. When you acted all high and mighty saying it was a basic concept ect. Karnos flipped scum.

Then the lq wagon I was pretty much fine with you until day 3 when you were like it's all garmrs fault and saying I tempted you and shit. Stop shifting the blame off yourself so you don't have to feel guilty. My points were solid otherwise I wouldn't be able to drive the wagon and you know what I think the wagon was all town at this momment.

Then you went along with the shit case on alisae. Alisae is a known village idiot I told you that and I told you why him being indesive and flaily was null but you didn't listen and accused me of being scum for defending him. Also despite you acting all high and mighty day 3 about it I only made a couple of comments at the start of the day and continued on there.

Now your doing the same thing with pranadevil instead of looking over the whole game. You jump on his village idiot actions instead of his whole game. You don't fucking learn and continue playing a shallow game.

Now that may sound harsh but atleast your night actions have been somewhat on point and you stopped some mislynches with them.


To answer your question through it's not about prana defending himself it's about stopping a misconception that could cause the game to fail.

[Garmr]

Also lol at the fact that you say I haven't been reading the thread when I actually had day start scum read Shannon and Lexa and then because of re-reading I flipped to a Prana/Garmr scum read.

Never said you weren't reading the thread just you don't learn from your mistakes.

[Garmr]

For the record, if you actually wanted me to move my vote, you wouldn't spend a lot of time defending Prana, you should be focusing me on placing my vote elsewhere.

The point is I have a scum read on lexa and titus are you willing to shift to any of those.


pedit
Feel bad? I'm just trying to stop a mislynch. But if you want to go and lynch prana that's fine go do it. Just know I'm going to be instantly voting titus once prana flips town.

If I'm wrong I will get mislynched but at that point the game should be pretty much solved so I Don't really have to much to worry about there.

[Garmr]

Also lol at the fact that you say I haven't been reading the thread when I actually had day start scum read Shannon and Lexa and then because of re-reading I flipped to a Prana/Garmr scum read.

Never said you weren't reading the thread just you don't learn from your mistakes.

Also, you did in fact say i wasn't going over the thread with what you said below

Now your doing the same thing with pranadevil instead of looking over the whole game.

That's not accusing you of not reading that's accusing you of not disregarding the whole games worth of content on one vi move.

[Garmr]

I'm asking one more question and then waiting for all the responses, why is it that I made an entire post responding to each point you made in your rant and you decide to not engage in it and respond to the addendum?

You were still posting and it's easier to post the small shit and then get to the big shit when you stop talking.

[Garmr]

A basic concept that scum don't claim Vengeful because it's a promised lynch. The dude did a horrid play and quite honestly against his wincoin. Although, i don't remember acting all high and mighty. Unless you mean how I begged the doctor onto me because I have the investigative roles. I feigned arrogance so that scum wouldn't dare touch me or actually get the doc.

LQ wagon, what you're saying here is what I can assume is this quote

I town read him so freaking hard tho, I knew in my SOUL that he was town and then Garmr told me why LQ could be scum and I liked the smell of it and took off lol

Yeah, I retold what happened. I town read LQ, you made a huge deal saying LQ was scum over Alisae, and then I took your opinion, formed my own and took off with it. I didn't put all the blame onto you

It also wasn't about Alisae being a VI, that's how I got the town read on her from the first place, it was what was perceived as a counterwagon by you to get heat off of Alisae so we rushed the slot.

Now, here's where things change. Prana isn't a Village idiot and I don't know where you got that from. Also considering that I've been town reading Prana, that leads to reason as to why I'm actually alive today and the same for Lexa as after the Alisae flip, heat was indeed being pressured on the Lexa slot.

What also changes is that once Titus joined, there has been a lot of actual discussion going on about reads instead of the quick lynching and you call my play abysmal.

You didn't call my play abysmal when I was running up Lexa but now that I'm pushing Prana, you're doing everything in your power to say my play is shit and that I shouldn't think the way I am because I should feel bad.

This is twice now that you've blown up and now that you're actually back and playing, I see it as a facade. It reads fake.

So yeah, I'm lynching Prana today.

1.Scum will fake claim anything if they think it will work your basic concept is pretty bad. I just had scum fake claim miller day 1 and win it in another game.

2.That's really bad logic. The points made day 3 were alisae jerky reaction to karnos (you had one as well) and alisae fake claim guilty when near lynch which is vi behaviour. The counter wagon point was never pushed as a primary reason and doesn't even factor alisae play. This is bad logic with out other post backing it up.

3.I said/meant his acting like a village idiot with his refusing to claim. It's a anti town move but not a scum one. Your choosing to push this as a scum point.

4.Yeah now there's discussion but it's surface level shit. Titus's so called vca doesn't factor in player reasoning ect and is superficial glass stuff. The fact you can't even regonize where she contradicts herself makes me cringe.

5.Actually I had a go at you and think big at the start of the day (mostly think big) but I let it go to advance the game now your doing the same shit over i'm not taking it standing.

6.Get over yourself if you think this blowing up. I'm putting you in your place.

[Garmr]

If you also want to know yes this game I think I am the better player than you.

[Garmr]

Also out of bbt and you bbt was killed let that sink in for a second.

[Garmr]

Also out of bbt and you bbt was killed let that sink in for a second.

That means my reads where bad Garmr, that's what it means.

I know how to manipulate a game based off of who and who not to kill. You can be a great game solver and charismatic but as long as you have bad reads, you'll be kept alive.

Now that my reads have changed, I don't suspect that I'll live past tonight.

Also, if Prana is town, whoever hammers before the claim will be a deadset scum claim, this is L-1
VOTE: Prana

I hope you don't tbh.

[Garmr]

I will say it again, insulting me will get you no where. Prove your reads instead of attacking me personally to try and sway my reads.

Nah I think I will let you mislynch prana (which I have been proving is town duh.) and hope you die so I can force titus into 1v1 tomorrow.

[Garmr]

Now think about

If I am wrong about prana (prana =s mafia) then I die from a mislynch and titus becomes pretty much confirmed town into mylo. As town I still actually win even I am dead so If I think about it that way I have nothing to lose no matter prana's flip.

[Garmr]

Nah I think I will let you mislynch prana (which I have been proving is town duh.) and hope you die so I can force titus into 1v1 tomorrow.

This doesn't come from town.

Really??? So far you are so good at knowing what comes from and what doesn't lol. (sarcasm)

[Garmr]

It's weird how when I iso you, I can't actually find where you came to the conclusion that Prana was town. You don't really explain why.

As for your scum reads, they're Titus for pushing Prana, Lexa for claiming roleblocker, and Shannon for?

Will admit I never talked about it.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, Just how would I be conftown after mislynching you?
.

You would be near confirmed town if prana is scum not for mislynching me. The mislynch on me would be the byproduct of standing up for my beliefs.

[Garmr]

@Garmr, Just how would I be conftown after mislynching you?
.

You would be near confirmed town if prana is scum not for mislynching me. The mislynch on me would be the byproduct of standing up for my beliefs.

So you're supposing PD will flip scum, yet I am not going to reassess? What about with my claim?

P.S. My shots are Tracker, Follower, and Motion Detector.

Your claim complicates things. I expected you to actually claim vanilla town. There's just so many joat claims it's not funny.

[Garmr]

Titus is the scum joat?

4 JOATS and a roleblocker as town and people are dumb enough to think me and prana are a scum team did I join a newbie game by mistake?


especially when 3 (2 alive) of those joats claim to be investigative joats with a doctor version of the joat.

[Garmr]

Titus, powers, what are they?
I need to equate them in the plan

UNVOTE:

On a side note on the off chance that titus is town. It would explain why scum lexa might not target you with a roleblock as they might have a role that gains information on roles and caught out titus.

[Garmr]

Titus can you please claim?

She did she claimed joat can you put more intreast into this game thank you.

[Garmr]

Which post? Sorry I missed it.

@Garmr, Just how would I be conftown after mislynching you?
.

You would be near confirmed town if prana is scum not for mislynching me. The mislynch on me would be the byproduct of standing up for my beliefs.

So you're supposing PD will flip scum, yet I am not going to reassess? What about with my claim?

P.S. My shots are Tracker, Follower, and Motion Detector.

[Garmr]

Would also like to point out that Titus has been pushing me and prana as scum instead of one of the joats or role blocker. With her role one would assume the town stance as that has to much power.

Do I know that? No. But I do know I am a joat, and 4 joats, 3 alive here is wtf?

Now that I was rudely awakened, I am going back to bed as even I need sleep.

With this don't you think that it's odd for titus to be town reading every other joat.

also

All Alone, Town JOAT (

Vanilla Cop, Rolecop,

Fruit Vendor)

If scum had a role cop is basically useless on it. Also I think I'm seeing a theme with these joat roles they have the strong effect and then a weak effect.


Titus is going for the vanillas to increase her chance at surviving in the mylo.

[Garmr]

A fruit vendor makes no sense unless there is a tracker or some type of motion detector. Titus' claim checks out. Especially because there is no CC.

I don't get this why does fruit vendor not make sense?

[Garmr]

Gramr, I can't take your opinion seriously unless you make your cases for the 3 in discussion.

I can't really take you seriously either in my eyes you pretty much lost all respect.

[Garmr]

You can insult me all you want, it wont make a difference.

Explaining how those people are scum or not, that makes the difference.

The only thing Garmr does is throw insults.

If you can't fucking read then why are you even playing. (Like you would know if you read anything i posted.)

[Garmr]

You can insult me all you want, it wont make a difference.

Explaining how those people are scum

or not, that makes the difference.

The only thing Garmr does is throw insults.

Explained why I think Lexa and titus are scum also debunked your reasoning on why prana is scum but haven't really said why he is town yet other than gut and the fact that we have way to may power roles meaning his town.

[Garmr]

By play how is lexa town? She blatantly lied about her role

Gin is handicapped when it comes to mafia he can't understand basic concept even if you explained in detail he wouldn't understand.

[Garmr]

TB, we discussed the night actions and I would have been blocked if Lexa was scum

Why? Why would scum block you how are you sure she didn't block one of the other claimed joats. Scum could have the ability to find them especially titus role her role lets her find all the other joats and dodge suspicion.

[Garmr]

By play how is lexa town? She blatantly lied about her role

Gin is handicapped when it comes to mafia he can't understand basic concept even if you explained in detail he wouldn't understand.

Look, Garmr, it is only a fucking game. No need for all these insults. All what your insults are doing is making you lose credibility.

I mean handicapped as in you skills aren't good not the mental handicapped kind. I critize people as town as well. I treat you this way because you act like all i'm doing is throwing insults but then bash my reasoning and then call me scum for having that reasoning. Why would I even respect you. Also the way you treated me yesterday is annoying.

[Garmr]

VOTE: Garmr

what now your going to have a little cry

[Garmr]

Mini Normal 1873: Role PM
Sent: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:26 pm
From: mastina
To: Garmr

Welcome to Mini Normal 1873, Garmr.
You are a Vanilla Townie.
Your only weapons are your voice and your vote.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one member of your faction is alive.

The game thread is here.
Please confirm your role via PM.

Good luck and have fun!


no need to policy lynch i'm being mod killed and probally banned learn to play

[Garmr]

Your insults are faked, you discredit everything by saying you're a god amongst men and that we need to heed to your opinion because we lack intelligence.

Honestly to say I'm not good at this game and not know what I've done is hilarious.

First off, the Hunger Games 2, I was widely town read and our team got nommed for a Don Corleone because of it(apparently judges hate teams -.-). My scum game is blessed because I know exactly how people think, how they play, because I can play.

Second, my town game is also strong. Camn's Revenge, I was able to, on Day 1 mind you, find 2 out of 3 scum within the scum team and establish a PoE lynch system till MyLo/LyLo and win the game, the only fuck up as to why it was lost is because the Vengeful townie got paranoid by WIFOM and I was able to correctly predict and explain every single WIFOM scenario and how he was being played.

You know nothing about me yet you choose to insult me with baseless claims that you're better. You throw a fit and it's all AtE. You don't push how people are scum by play but by claim. That in itself is bad play.

you keep think that bud.

[Garmr]

thinking*

[Garmr]

but once lexa and titus are shown to be scum you will feel like a stupid idiot.