I think the mafia scum rules need to be updated

[ironstove]

I was banned a few weeks ago from signing new games, and on top of that, the site mod decided to go a step further and have me mod replaced from all ongoing games despite having received no warning whatsoever.

The message stated:

Hello ironstove,

You are being banned, effectively immediately from

joining

new mafia games for four weeks for abusive behavior. You are also to be force-replaced from all current games. Posts like this are not acceptable on mafiascum. You've been previously banned for these types of posts before as well as discussing ongoing games, and I want to reiterate that you need to be more careful with your posting overall.

Please refer to the Site Rules if you're unclear on what types of behaviors are not okay.

If you have any questions you may contact a Listmod (Llamafluff, Mina, Nexus, Radja, T-Bone, Untrod Tripod). You'll be able to sign up for new mafia games again on Sunday 19th February 2017

Thanks,
Nexus
Normal Listmod

So I recently decided to try to host a normal game and was notified that I need to join the host queue after my sign up ban has expired.

I requested further information on why this is the case, and I had my PM ignored.

I'd simply like to know why a ban effecting a player in one area (the ban itself I feel was excessive, considering that a warning is perfectly sufficient) should restrict action in another without any specification?

I find that the rules at MS are pretty vague, this is literally the only line that I can find that is relevant to the offense I committed:

Since Mafia is based largely on conflict and psychological manipulation, we are somewhat more tolerant of aggressive and heated posts in-game than in the rest of the forums. However, game mods will often take action for excessively abusive behavior or slurs, up to and including a force-replacement or modkill. In certain cases, posters with multiple or severe offenses may receive site-wide punishments from the list moderators, such as temporary or permanent bans from

joining or playing games

. Please refer to the most recent pages of the Ban/Restrictions Announcements thread for an idea of what behavior crosses the line.

Of course some insults and flames are allowed, but why is it alright to call a person a 'shithead' or 'moron' and launch personal attacks berating someone's intelligence as a human being, while a comment by me indicating (humorously) that suicide is a permanent solution to all of life's problems gets me a 4 week ban and force-replaced from my games?

On top of this, the ban I received was specifically for signing up into games, not hosting games (That is the specific wording used from the rules itself), so I think the vagueness of the rules should be more specific or fixed, or mods need to do a better job at communicating with users, rather than saying 'you're banned from joining new games', it should say you're banned from being involved with any games'

There also needs to be an appeals process IMO, there currently is no board of review for bans that occur on MS like other online communities, and I'd like to know if something of this sort could happen. I went through one mod, who directed me to a site admin, the site admin refused to read the thread and understand the context of my comment, rather he said the ban was justified and I was lucky I didn't get a harsher punishment (wtf???). When I asked him to look at the context, he ignored me and did not respond back.

The first ban I received was for cursing and using a homophobic epithet as a joke, not because I actually thought someone was gay, and even if I knew someone was gay, I would not have a problem with it let alone be insensitive enough to use a slur against them even if I did (I don't).

I knew after that 'Ok ironstove, remember to not make any racist or homophobic remarks because mafiascum is a #safespace and you don't want to get B& again' so I consciously tiptoed my way through this game that i was in

but really, even suicide jokes are over the line? I'd like a definitive list of all actions and terms which are banned from usage on MS.

I'm tired of offending people, I'm sure people are tired of being offended by me because they're reporting my posts.

I don't want to get banned again because I enjoy playing on this site, but I can't read your minds as moderators or players, and if you're not going to give me a warning and just straight up ban me for a month every time someone feels like they've been emotionally scarred by something I wrote and needs to join a therapy group, I can't really do anything about it because I'm literally navigating blind, and all I can do is add each ban I have to the ongoing list of 'things that can't be said or done on MS'

My ban is ending soon anyway and I'm planning to rejoin a game, but I already suspect someone is going to try to report me for some minor offense and a ban happy moderator that doesn't like me is going to try to issue something like a 3 month ban on my account because I'm a 'repeat offender' LMAO.

[ironstove]

Of course a certain level of ambiguity must exist, but maybe the policy regarding how punishments are issued out should be changed?

Presuming that the same offense did not occur twice, you could issue out a warning, or if someone recently came off a ban, I don't think that warrants them to be banned for an even longer period of time with 0 warning and 0 process to appeal the decision with a case.

It's just straight confusing when you say in one line of the rules 'Flames are part of the game' but in the next line say 'you're going to get banned if we think you're taking it too far',

I'd imagine having a line like this warrants a warning system rather than immediate 4 week bans. It's too excessive. Do you not agree?

I want to build a good reputation on this website and it's very difficult when moderators and admins refuse to communicate when I reach out to them, and show 0 leniency when I make the case that things were a misunderstanding and won't happen again. I'm an actual person and not some random stranger, I've been on this website coming close to a year now, and I've been reading articles on this site for close to 2.

This entire experience has really made me question why you issue bans at all. Is it to give a person time to reflect on their actions and determine what it was that they did wrong in the period of time that they're unable to participate with the community and improve themselves to avoid making the same mistake, or is it a tool used to be used irrationally in a draconian fashion over petty incidents with no concern over whether people are improving?

I was very clear when speaking with the mod and admin that I did not make my comment in seriousness and knowing that such comments were not allowed was all I needed, I did not need to be banned, I did not need to be mod-replaced or have the hosts who were taking the time to host the game go through the trouble of finding me a replacement and pause the game for all other players.

I'm not a stupid person, and all you have to do is communicate with me to let me know that I broke the rules because even you agree that the rules are vague.

Banning an active player for a month who doesn't replace out of games, and actively participates over one person complaining without even properly investigating, even after the person who has been banned requests someone to do so, is lazy moderation which is why I'm trying to be active on my part to avoid it happening again.

[ironstove]

Yes, that was a precursor to the first ban, but no warning was given for the second. Was I being unclear?

[ironstove]

Without going into detail on what I personally agree or disagree with, and keeping in mind that I hold no authoritative position on the forums, your best course of action is to know your crowd and site culture.

Anything about suicide is probably out because a lot of people here are dealing with depression and similar issues and something that pokes fun at that is obviously going to be seen as in bad taste.

The site has a lot of people who identify as homosexual, transgender, and whatever other LBGT groups exist. Anything that makes them feel like less of a person because of that fact is obviously going to be off limits.

Past bans have shown that making fun of any type of mental handicap, whether real or implied, will be taken seriously. Don't use "retarded" as a slur for example.

Just a few of many examples. If you don't know if what you want to say will be tolerated or not, the best course of action is to not say it. Second best is to ask a game mod or discussion mod (depending on where you are posting) via private message whether you would be crossing any lines or not before you post. I'm sure things will get easier over time as you get a better feel for site culture.

As for the mods specifically, they are human. They also have a thankless job. People are always judging what is justified, what isn't, and what they failed to act on. They may or may not get it right. Whether they got it right or not is usually a matter of opinion. But the thing to remember is they are the ones who control what is banworthy. Listening to what they have to say and communicating with them when needed are the two best ways to not get banned. They've done a pretty good job of laying out what is ok and what isn't and usually will answer questions you have even if it may take time.

Personally, I hold some opinions that a lot of people here (mods included) aren't ok with. I have an occupation that could make me a target (to the point that I once recieved a death threat on mafiascum). Yet I've managed to avoid any bans on here while others who hold those same opinions struggle with that. It's because I know when to leave a discussion and when to not even enter it (most of the time). It's not always easy, but biting your tongue will go a long way. The most important thing as far as not getting banned, in mafia games, is to remember that you are playing a game. It's meant to be fun. You are arguing and will get frustrated, so insults will naturally fly. But try not to get personal and offensive. Try to attack the play rather than the person.

I hope you're reading this with an open mind because it's the best advice I can give and I actually put some time into this post.

Thanks, this was a good post. I appreciate it.

[ironstove]

It is subjective, but with that acknowledgement, there should be an appeals process, which doesn't currently exist. I'm not so sensitive to insults having been a regular poster and reader of some of the most degenerate boards on the internet, so I would probably never report a person, but at this point I might just start reporting everything I can find reportable just out of principle to show how the current system has issues which need to be addressed.

I know this is a moderately small community in which most people know one another, so I have to say that people need to show a little more leniency and humanity because of that.

[ironstove]

I'm not saying I would make fake reports I mean everything that I think violates the rules can be reported due to the vagueness.

Using any type of name calling is reportable is it not?

All I was asking for was more specifics on bans and rules because mods seem to be given too much free reign

[ironstove]

i mean its that of a whiny cry baby who cant just take their slap on the wrists and move on but hey its a reputation

Reported for hurting my feeling

[ironstove]

if you are actually serious about what you said then i got some sweet tips for you

stop posting about the shit you did previously
keep playing mafia games

literally the only thing most of us know about you is from this thread do you think were forming good opinions of you

being banned isnt the end of the world and its not going to suddenly make every hate you or form a reputation thats going to haunt you for the rest of the time on the site
there are multiple scummers who have been banned (some repeatedly) that are generally well regarded and prominent members of the site and some of them were banned for much worse commentary then yours

shape up play well and be a reasonable dude outside of games and within a month or three nobody is even going to remember your original ban youre making a molehill into a mountain and unfortunately what youre saying about your reputation is a self-fulfilling prophecy

LOL didn't read

[ironstove]

I'm not digging myself into any sort of hole.

This is my form of peaceful protest, the mafiascum version of the great salt march