Can we have rule on "political slur"?

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Can we have rule on "political slur"?

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:55 am

Post by Realeo »

We reject the use of sexist, racist, or autistic slur.

But how about political slur?
Hey Realeo! Can't you just use common sense? Is it hate speech? If hate speech, then no?


Here's the problem. Unlike sexist, racist, or autistic slur, our common sense does not overlap in politic.

Let me gives me an example.

People in America and Europe considers Hitler is taboo. Well, not for Asia. We don't consider Hitler as "radical hate speech". Some people has no problem using swastika. Most people when seeing other uses swastika may go "Ooooh.. Bold choice," but done.

I personally find saying "You realize that your argumentation for A is scum, is like the argumentation that Hitler used," is acceptable as long as the comment creator believes that his argument indeed similiar to the argument that Hitler used. So it's not
ad hom
attack. It's attacking the argument. When I say your argument is like Hitler', it's an implicit way of saying 'Dude. You are going to a fallacy that Hitler went. I don't want to explain what is exactly the fallacy that Hitler went, but I hope that you get the message'.

Spoiler: A little bit of explanation of Hitler
As an explanation, Asia feels disconnected with Hitler is like American feels disconnected with soccer. We Asian simply don't know Hitler (Because it was not Hitler who invaded Asia, it was the Japanese.) You people, assuming too invested with American football, may not know soccer.


Mafiascum.net is a global online community. Can we have an explicit rule for this?
I can guarantee that it is not that obvious for us foreigner.
Last edited by Realeo on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #1 (isolation #1) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:57 am

Post by Realeo »

If saying "Your argument is like Hitler," sounds weird, try replacing Hitler with Donald Trump or Dusterte or Robert Mugabe. It may make more senses.

And it may makes more senses why American find it offensive, but not us foreigner.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #3 (isolation #2) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:18 am

Post by Realeo »

The idea of outside game influence is like trust tell, not political news.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #4 (isolation #3) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:19 am

Post by Realeo »

If everything that is outside the game is outside the game, then using Youtube video or meme would be an OGI.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #6 (isolation #4) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:20 am

Post by Realeo »

Regardless of the actual case of me v -Grey- works, my case stands.
Can we have a rule to make it obvious?
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #7 (isolation #5) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:21 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 5, -Grey- wrote:Calling me an idiot for having shit reads, I find acceptable personally.

Making inferences about my intellect based on things that have no relevance whatsoever to the game is not.
You call my read a twisted narrative. I call Donald Trump.
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Post Post #9 (isolation #6) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:31 am

Post by Realeo »

But the problem is, we cannot agree on what is degrading due to a different culture.

For Indonesian, Donald Trump is a fine joke while maybe not for American (because it's a real issue). For American, Tiananmen Square joke maybe fine *cough* Trevor Noah *cough* while we find that very insulting.

Because we have different culture
, let us settle it for once and for all.

At this point I'm kinda interchangeably using the word joke and reference.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #7) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:03 am

Post by Realeo »

So what is exactly my fault that you reported me? At this point, we becoming enemies makes more sense that a reportable fault?

The thing is that I used Trump reference quite some time (given my game sample size) and you're the first one to angry so I went, "Oh, this is a subjective call. Better makes it a rule?" But now it seems that it's a simple case of -Grey- being offended, but if you're being offended, why report it? Why not just confront me post-game?
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Post Post #12 (isolation #8) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:10 am

Post by Realeo »

At this point, I am not making violation. You're just issuing a restraining order.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #13 (isolation #9) » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:51 am

Post by Realeo »

I am going to be offline. Let me explain my confusion.

At first, I thought my action is inherently bad. However, learning from debating whether abortion is legal, I realized that I should define "what is inherently bad?"

The problem is we have a different meaning of what is "inherently bad" so we have to play by the house's rule which is why I make this thread.

However, from you implied OOG is ok as long as it's not offending. However, in you're moving the goal and say anything that is OOG is bad.

With that goal moving, it becomes obvious that this is not a problem of an ambiguous justice system, it's a problem of retaliation.

But we're consenting adult. If you want retaliation, you can confront me post-game. I thought confronting the guy that annoys you is a universal knowledge.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #25 (isolation #10) » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:28 pm

Post by Realeo »

In post 23, Accountant wrote:Take this nonsense to PMs
No. No. The nonsense is secondary talk.

I really want the "political slur" talk to get into the rule. It's the primary talk.
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #30 (isolation #11) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:58 am

Post by Realeo »

No. Not ongoing.

Anyway, I want a clarified rule for this reason:

In my first mod game, I made a role PM making fun on Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump. I add meme of Jeb Bush in the vote count. The response was positive.

Since the response was positive, I was intending to use it again in upcoming C9++, but this came up so I change the theme of the role PM. It's a shame that I wasted a flavor text so I want confirmation.
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Post Post #32 (isolation #12) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:04 am

Post by Realeo »

I WASN'T INSULTING YOU AT THAT GAME.

WHY ARE YOU
SO DESPERATE
WANT TO BE INSULTED?
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Post Post #33 (isolation #13) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:05 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 14, -Grey- wrote:Or, I can just avoid you.

Seems a better option.

Bye.
WHY ARE YOU STILL TALKING TO ME?
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Post Post #38 (isolation #14) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:22 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 34, -Grey- wrote:
In post 32, Realeo wrote:I WASN'T INSULTING YOU AT THAT GAME.
In post 1457, Realeo wrote:Yeah. Speak like a true Republican.
WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU CALL THIS?

I CAN DO ALLCAPS TOO.
EXACTLY THE POINT!

You said "Persivul is scum,"
but don't want to explain why.


I said you like a true Republican because Republican said "Global warming is hoax"
but doesn't want to explain why.


I WAS ATTACKING YOUR ARGUMENT, NOT YOUR IDENTITY.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #15) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:24 am

Post by Realeo »

Oh please, I already used Hitler as example in OP to explain why Asian has different view of Hitler unlike European, to exemplify the urgency of making the rule obvious.
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Post Post #43 (isolation #16) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:32 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 40, -Grey- wrote:HOW WELL DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE RECEIVED IF I SAID "JUST LIKE A FUCKING CHRISTIAN" OUT OF THE BLUE AFTER SOMEBODY MENTIONED BELIEVING MURDER IS BAD?
Exactly the point!

It is made obvious that religion, autistic, race, is not cool. Every culture has the same knowledge.

But a different culture has a different standard for politic. To unify the culture, I demand rule for it.
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Post Post #47 (isolation #17) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:48 am

Post by Realeo »

Hold on a minute. I thought by , you conceded that I was not attacking you, but simply culture clash error of what is acceptable and what is not.

Now you call me troll for "inciting" and "inflaming" you.

Which bring us to this.
In post 32, Realeo wrote:I WASN'T INSULTING YOU AT THAT GAME.

WHY ARE YOU
SO DESPERATE
WANT TO BE INSULTED?
"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo

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Post Post #50 (isolation #18) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:54 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 46, Accountant wrote:Curious: Grey, supposed someone with their location set as Texas, USA flipped Vigilante, and someone went "hah! Of course the Texan flips vig!" is that OGI?
By Grey's definition (the first sentence)
In post 2, -Grey- wrote:You lashed out with intent to insult using content that was not related to the game in any way.

It doesn't matter what the content
was
.

It matters what it
wasn't
.

Hence my complaint that it was ogi.

OGI = outside game influence
It's an OGI. What does Texas has anything to do with the game?
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Post Post #55 (isolation #19) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:13 am

Post by Realeo »

A) There is a difference between a tongue in cheek remark and hateful bile
A. How does "You speak like a Republican" is not a tongue in cheek?

B. But isn't people are different on what is tongue in cheeck and hateful?

--
Let me give some background:

In Indonesia, non ad-hom political attack is not a problem as long as it doesn't involve religion or race. We find that as the benefit of democracy.

I don't know what about America feels. I thought American feels ok because it's a free country. T S O says "American say ok." -Grey- says "American say No."

Because what is "You're a prick!" ok or "You're fine!" is subjective when it comes to politic and where you came from, let us make a rule to avoid other incident.

I used the example of how Asian sees Hitler in OP because most scummies is American and it's safe to assume that American can relate to Hitler. If I use example of how Indonesian works in OP, people would feel disconnected because they don't know what is Indonesia (other of where Obama came from)

I must have been repeating this multiple times. How hard is this to understand?
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Post Post #58 (isolation #20) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:19 am

Post by Realeo »

In post 54, -Grey- wrote:not being a flaming douchebag to--
In post 32, Realeo wrote:I WASN'T INSULTING YOU AT THAT GAME.

WHY ARE YOU
SO DESPERATE
WANT TO BE INSULTED?
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Post Post #63 (isolation #21) » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:17 am

Post by Realeo »

You know what, if you insists that you're being insulted when you're not, by all means,
please be insulted
regardless of whether I actually insult you or not.

Please do.

I hope you are angry. I really do.

If -Grey- is angry => -Grey- is happy, I can only hope for your happiness.

Fun Fact: My life doesn't change whether you find peace or hate.

It was a common courtesy to rectify any misunderstanding.

Good Bye.
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