Mini Normal 1883 | Under the Sea | Endgame

[Creature]

lol this was open and nobody noticed.

[Creature]

Using provable randomness is forbidden. Saying you rolled a dice is fine; using dice tags is not.

I rolled a dice.

VOTE: JupiterCrush

[Creature]

I wonder if TwoFace will be mad I'm there.

[Creature]

Bah, I'll try to solve the game before anyone posts.

[Creature]

Mini 1843

[Creature]

I attempted Open 657 (even with few info) so that should count.

[Creature]

hello, you should crush with the sun

[Creature]

Titus scum?

[Creature]

The same I have completed like 60 games in a year.

[Creature]

Titus posts like 30 posts per day. I post like 35.

Beat that

[Creature]

Time to change it.

VOTE: Titus

[Creature]

I am town, Boonskies not so much
MortFeld can be town for now
massive is town
Formerfish idk
Eddie Cane town
XnarojX maybe town
JupiterCrush and Eddie Cane town

The rest (Not Voting) can be all scum.

[Creature]

Like the way Boonskies and Eddie Cane appear twice in the VC.

[Creature]

Ugh, Titus is missing.

Mod, fix this VC please

Fixed.

[Creature]

idk, gonna trust others on him then.

[Creature]

Okay, mod, that's better, but you're still listing Boonskies twice (in JupiterCrush and not voting) and you're missing Titus.

Hopefully this is fixed now.

[Creature]

Him? Who is him here? I mentioned like six people.

Boonskies

[Creature]

The mod looks pretty inconsistent, I think he could pretty well be scum trying to sway us into a mislynch.

[Creature]

Oh no JarJar is scum

[Creature]

I am town, Boonskies not so much
MortFeld can be town for now
massive is town
Formerfish idk
Eddie Cane town
XnarojX maybe town
JupiterCrush and Eddie Cane town

The rest (Not Voting) can be all scum.

You have one scum(ish) read, an idk, and everyone else is town to you. And your vote is on someone you think is town. Thoughts creature?

I listed you as "idk" and Titus is included in Not Voting.

[Creature]

Time to change it.

VOTE: Titus

[Creature]

If you want, I can change it to JarJarDrinks.

[Creature]

Titus scum?

Why did you say this at this point?

Had a feeling Titus got scum.

[Creature]

Yes, I work with feelings, even the stupidest ones.

RVS must have a signification otherwise it's useless.

One-post players should always be analysed close (even if it goes beyond descriptions) and made sure they'll post more.

[Creature]

At some point your reads will solidify.

JupiterCrush isn't just feeling. His posts are indeed obvtown.

[Creature]

Huh?

[Creature]

As much his actions look bad, I still feel he's gonna flip town.

[Creature]

VOTE: JarJarDrinks

JarJarDrinks and TwoFace are more likely scum and the other must be lurking around (or Titus).

[Creature]

He looks more like a VI than scum being inconsistent.

[Creature]

idk, is he even online?

[Creature]

Wouldn't oppose a Moogin wagon.

[Creature]

VOTE: Moogin

[Creature]

idk, he must be trying to push something.

[Creature]

But Titus could have been on to something.

Tip: Titus votes me wrongly most of the time.

[Creature]

idk, he must be trying to push something.

Is this responding to my question? If not, please answer.

Yes, he's pushing something.

[Creature]

MortFeld

TwoFace

Formerfish

XnadrojX

JupiterCrush
Boonskiies
Creature

MooginSoosy
GreenNope
JarJarDrinks

Eddie Cane
massive

Titus

[Creature]

Do you want three samples?

[Creature]

Okay, push something = Push reactions

[Creature]

I don't see him doing that as scum tbh.

[Creature]

I could give a lot of reasons for town!him to do that, but not a good reason for scum!him to do that besides towncred.

[Creature]

This is why I said push something.

He's most likely trying to push something to us discuss on.

[Creature]

Also, you're here enough to know reads can't come with perfect explanations. Specially because any tell that is shared around becomes invalid.

[Creature]

Scum are in TwoFace, JarJarDrinks, MooginSoosy and GreenNope.

[Creature]

Oh right, Gin replaced GreenNope.

[Creature]

Gin, do you atleast settle on a TwoFace, JarJarDrinks and MooginSoosy scumteam?

[Creature]

Sadly it's pretty unlikely the whole scumteam would be on me. I wished I could nuke wagons.

[Creature]

???

[Creature]

Oh nice, just missed this post in my ego list.

[Creature]

Hi Gin, why you suddenly voted me?

[Creature]

tbh I'm feeling like TwoFace is voting me because I am not playing the way he wants town to play.

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks voted me because I defended JupiterCrush. A terrible reason to vote that he should know.

Eddie Cane was indeed pretty opportunistic.

Titus is like the only valid vote on me.

[Creature]

That's 1 post and why.

Also if yo read the thread you would see that his attempt too discredit Titus based on meta was called out by me.

Neither of those seem townie to me. They seem like scum.

I don't see why a townie who is being accused of being scum with somebody else would immediately vote that person when they made a post that sounds genuine. And then when somebody says the accuser has a good point, he immediately tries to discredit him because he's been wrong in other games instead of why he's wrong this game.

I can actually agree with this and reading page 6 with Creature saying Titus never votes him correctly without being voted strikes me, well as she said, hyper-defensive.

VOTE: Creature

This is L-3 if people pay this close attention to that

Yeah, this is either an easy-to-manipulate townie or an opportunistic scum hoping I get outted as PR or settled as today's lynch.

I don't remember Gin being an easy-to-manipulate townie.

[Creature]

idk, do you think hyper-defensivity is a valid general scumtell or just for some players?

[Creature]

I sorta want to check this thread again. I didn't notice I had four new pages of posts for a while and I might've missed some details.

[Creature]

Did you actually consider if my hyper-defensivity could come from town?

[Creature]

Holy fuck 267 is a huge stretch.

"Creature is town"
"Actually, should I give Creature a free pass for posting?"
"Nvm, hyperdefensivity is scummy"

[Creature]

We could analyse my wagon. Not sure if all scum are on it, but most of the votes look bad there.

[Creature]

VOTE: creature

ff boon massive

I rolled a dice.

Ugh, this has to be the worst on the wagon.

[Creature]

Titus states she's considering me as scum.

This happens:

Creature definitely doesn't look good for that vote. But Titus could have been on to something.

VOTE: creature

Good vote for now

[Creature]

I feel like Eddie Cane is an alt and alts are usually troll-ish.

[Creature]

If he thinks there's scum in the lurkers, why is he opposed to sorting.

Is there an use for voting an empty slot?

[Creature]

Yea, I got the PM this morning so yea that probably looks fishy that I posted other places and not here haha.

???

[Creature]

Feeling like TwoFace is, despite being bad, town.

[Creature]

39 doesn't look scum planned at all.

Is Jupiter actually trying to pose as this dumb?

[Creature]

MortFeld not so town.

[Creature]

Nvm, I remembered Page 4 is town MortFeld

[Creature]

Anyone up to wagon Moogin?

[Creature]

Gin wants me to look at others and you want me to look at myself...

[Creature]

You think I'm hyperdefensive, Gin sheeped you.

JarJarDrinks because my townread on JupiterCrush.

Titus and Eddie Cane idk, Cane seemed random.

[Creature]

idk, I think this hyperdefensive thing you're saying is just a Scumming tell. Scumming are awkward posts that sound scummy but actually can easily come from any side.

[Creature]

not really a fan of this kind of discrediting of titus.

[Creature]

You think I'm hyperdefensive, Gin sheeped you.

JarJarDrinks because my townread on JupiterCrush.

Titus and Eddie Cane idk, Cane seemed random.

Why do I always float in your null reads despite you consistently calling my posts townie? Like I was the only good vote according to you?

Because your play is different.

[Creature]

Like it isn't "oh your vote on me seems reasonable, therefore you're town"

I don't understand your vote, but I think this is how you play, though, it still doesn't help me determine your alignment.

[Creature]

Different like "it's usual for you, but not so much for others"

[Creature]

It is usual for you but doesn't determine your alignment. It can be good but doesn't determine your alignment. It is different from others.

[Creature]

At least I'm trying to explain something that is hard to describe in words.

[Creature]

Still think Moogin is scum?

[Creature]

If not Moogin, what about JarJarDrinks?

[Creature]

It's an answer to 294.

[Creature]

Okay, though some players are saying I'm hyperdefensive because of that post and so I assumed you thought the same.

[Creature]

I never understand her votes on me. Maybe she can read someone else, but she still fails to read me.

[Creature]

you do know that's an empty response right?

Yes, because everything posted so far in this site is empty.

[Creature]

Hello Realeo

Why would MortFeld replace out?

[Creature]

Oh nvm

[Creature]

Oh nice, I wonder why Realeo disappeared.

[Creature]

If you're used to see scum getting away with being low-hanging, it's something you'll usually do.

[Creature]

I keep mislynching Jordan most games because he's so hard to read sometimes.

[Creature]

Feeling like you and him are both town.

[Creature]

Who do we wagon?

[Creature]

Not sure if Boonskiies is the best wagon there.

[Creature]

What do you think about JarJarDrinks?

[Creature]

I have JarJarDrinks and MooginSoosy as scum.

[Creature]

Wait, what's the VC?

[Creature]

Okay, I'm calling Eddie Cane's wagon to be over.

[Creature]

VOTE: eddie

vig boonskies. Lynch him tomorrow if we lack a vig. it's worth the trade.

idk, this doesn't feel like scum tbh.

[Creature]

If Eddie magically becomes conftown, who would be your next wagon?

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks feels like Mini 1841, where he stays low-hanging and his posts feel like scum trying to not be put under highlight.

MooginSoosy is acting pretty different from Newbie 1770, it doesn't look like town trying to contribute and reaching conclusions, it looks like scum trying to derptown.

[Creature]

It's like:

"Oh, that guy uses someone not confirming as a reason to townread them, it's anti-town, therefore he's confscum"
"Oh, that guy can't explain his townread, it's anti-town, therefore he's confscum"
"Oh, that guy self-voted, it's anti-town, therefore he's confscum"

Scum likes to have players that think like this around. They just have to pick some genuine town posts, point something anti-town and they'll earn free mislynches plus towncred for them.

[Creature]

Oh right, 469 has the potential to be scumplanned.

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks, Boonskiies, MooginSoosy.

Though, I could re-consider MooginSoosy.

[Creature]

Is there anyone else I should include here?

[Creature]

Okay, whose people do you think are actually scum?

[Creature]

Your townreads don't look bad.

[Creature]

Realeo
TwoFace
Formerfish
XnadroJX
massive

[Creature]

Your townreads don't look bad.

Nvm, you don't townread them.

[Creature]

Don't wanna touch Eddie Cane anymore after that selfvote.

[Creature]

Ugh, Jupiter should post more, but his posts all feel town.

[Creature]

VOTE: Boonskiies

L-2

[Creature]

And he hasn't claimed hated.

[Creature]

Don't just wait someone feed you conclusions, seek them yourself

[Creature]

UNVOTE:

Got a full school day.

[Creature]

Still waiting confirmation from GreenNope and Jordan.

can we presume green and jordan are town cleared because mods most likely wouldn't start the game without confirmation from scum first?

No, all what is required is 10/13 to confirm, regardless of alignment or role.

~Mod

Still waiting confirmation from GreenNope and Jordan.

can we presume green and jordan are town cleared because mods most likely wouldn't start the game without confirmation from scum first?

Not at all.

you're scum because you're arguing against having town clears

i read through eddie's ISO, and he doesn't seem towny so i'll vote for him.

if he flips scum then i have some players in my head that i think can be town cleared

VOTE: eddie

[Creature]

The top three wagons are all town.

[Creature]

Also, I don't really understand these TwoFace scumreads.

[Creature]

Boonskiies, MooginSoosy and JarJarDrinks (in no particular order) look worse from these top three wagons.

[Creature]

Do I have to explain why Eddie Cane's and JupiterCrush's atitudes are unlikely to come from scum?

[Creature]

Scum. Aren't. Trying. To. Intentionally. Call. Attention. For. Themselves.

(specially if they look like new players)

[Creature]

Do you think JupiterCrush is an alt? If not, townread them.

Do you think Eddie Cane is an alt? If not, townread them.

[Creature]

Think something like: "Do I see them doing that as town? Would scum do that? What would scum be doing right now?"

[Creature]

tbh Riley Cake seems more like a troll there.

[Creature]

I don't classify selfvoting or townreading players because they didn't confirm as scummy, I classify them as awkward.

And awkward =/= Scum

[Creature]

Why can't scum be like JarJarDrinks? Posting only occassionally and planning his posts so they look like generic town saying "oh, X is scummy because he's sheeping someone's opinion and yada yada"?

[Creature]

Okay, so what was the reason we were voting them again?

[Creature]

Eddie Cane is the Elyse of TTH's Summer Mafia.

[Creature]

To clarify, I don't think Eddie Cane is Elyse, just compared him as the Elyse of TTH's Summer Mafia.

No, they aren't automatically scum and I don't know how that's a good case. Elyse was town at TTH's Summer Mafia.

If they're not an alt, not sure if it would change my view about them.

[Creature]

Gin or anyone that wants to answer these questions:

Is JarJarDrinks town?

Is MooginSoosy town?

Is Boonskiies town?

[Creature]

So I'm scum with Gin, Formerfish, massive, and Jupiter. got it. good to know where you stand.

Cool, looks like now the scum team is Jarjar, Titus, Gin, myself, massive, Jupiter and Formerfish.

^ Pretending to not understand.

[Creature]

Okay

[Creature]

Do you know what to do when you're agitated?

[Creature]

I don't think Eddie Cane only pushed you. Maybe try to cooperate with him?

[Creature]

Okay, I'm now feeling I'm wrong about Boonskiies.

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks + MooginSoosy + Titus?

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks is being pretty generic like Mini 1841, instead of a willing to solve the game like Mini 1796.

MooginSoosy looks really different from her newbie.

Titus is PoE.

I'm townreading everybody else.

[Creature]

VOTE: Moogin

[Creature]

This is such a nice TvT.

[Creature]

Oh, it's your main.

[Creature]

Okay, JupiterCrush is ironstove.

[Creature]

Can someone like analyse him? I feel like that's expected from him, but I'm not sure.

[Creature]

Creature's scum reads

JupiterCrush(vote)
Titus(vote)
JarJar(vote)
TwoFace
Moogin(vote)
Gin
Jordan(can't read)
Boon(vote)

If by scumreads you mean everyone whom I have voted so far, then expect most players to have that many scumreads.

If by scumreads you mean who I am currently scumreading, I said it somewhere that by PoE it's Moogin, JarJar and Titus.

[Creature]

Can someone like analyse him? I feel like that's expected from him, but I'm not sure.

This post makes me really want to vote you. It's fluffy. You're asking questions and proposing scum teams without digging for analysis yourself. You're asking town to do the work and try to play supervisor. I don't like it at all.

Nah, it's just a lazy tell.

[Creature]

Though, I'm wondering what tell is 689.

[Creature]

Creature is not doing any game solving and hasn't since the beginning.

Correction: I'll just pretend I didn't see Creature gamesolving despite him commenting about his townreads and scumreads a lot of time.

[Creature]

I definitely don't remember him playomg like this or else he would have been on my radar.

Because atleast there was a BlackVoid carrying us and town recognized scum as scum, not trolling as scum.

[Creature]

Okay, you'd rather lynch someone who's trying to push town in a direction they think is good than someone who's just low-hanging staying in the background.

[Creature]

idk what to put as explanation.

Saying things like "he's sheeping someone's reads, probably buddying", "he's fence-sitting", "his votes look inconsistent" aren't actually valid scumtells.

I could say something like "he's looking pretty generic and not posting much as I would expect", though, sometimes it won't be enough to difference town being generic and scum being generic.

[Creature]

How I'd explain my case on JarJarDrinks would be that "he's too normal".

Though, it feels like there's a giant button of "normal" and a lot of other buttons that are basically "out of normal". JarJarDrinks would be like pressing the giant button of "normal" in slow motion.

I'm not sure how I would expect him to press these buttons if he was town, I just don't feel like this is his way of being town.

[Creature]

Hey, I'd like an opinion besides mine on MortFeld/Realeo slot.

[Creature]

@Creature: I repeat, why are you townreading massive?

This is how I remember town!massive is.

[Creature]

Also not posting as much as you do does not equal scum. It means nothing if you don't actually say why the player's posts are scummy.

It's generic.

[Creature]

The best way to make me change my mind is to actually make a case that makes sense and contains good reasoning, something you hve been unable to do.

Also something scum tries to do so town can't have the correct explanation for their scummy behavior.

[Creature]

If you think the correct way to scumread is picking a post and pointing a flaw, then you have no idea about how scum plays.

[Creature]

I recommend you take a look there: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68714

How did scum play?

Did they selfvote, townread players for an invalid reason or didn't explain their reads well?

What about town? How they played?

[Creature]

Hey LUV

JarJarDrinks seemed very likely scum. What about you?

[Creature]

Answer like this bothers me a lot.

You expect every explanation to be a wikipedia article.

[Creature]

Changing my mind about TheRealGin.

If he was town, he would've remembered Large Normal 200.

Instead he's pretending it doesn't exist and town are supposed to give wikipedia-article explanations.

[Creature]

His posts feel like trying to indirectly solve the game, like he was at other games I played with him.

[Creature]

Feeling like the scumteam is Lil Uzi Vert - TheRealGin - MooginSoosy.

[Creature]

Changing my mind about TheRealGin.

If he was town, he would've remembered Large Normal 200.

Instead he's pretending it doesn't exist and town are supposed to give wikipedia-article explanations.

You act like I read Large 200 after I was lynched. Even still there wasn't anything I remember about you.

Pretty sure you partake a lot at Day 1 discussion and you should have some idea on how you solve the game.

[Creature]

Yeah, scum likes to use that as a scumtell against townies.

[Creature]

Ok, Realeo, do you think massive is scum or not?

[Creature]

Hey Gin, are you absolutely sure all reads were explained at Large Normal 200 D1?

[Creature]

It feels like taking a proved physical theory and saying it's false.

[Creature]

If you're town, you should like deoverhaul.

[Creature]

If I claim, will you shift the wagon to someone else?

[Creature]

VT.

Now, if you lynch me right now and I flip town, town gets absolutely no info to use for Day 2. Do you allow that?

[Creature]

No info?

Scum gets away with a mislynch because they weren't pressured at all and town just confbiased themselves onto me.

[Creature]

Okay, so if I became modconfirmed town, who would you wagon?

[Creature]

Your reads suck and the opportunism on Creature after I voted Boon should be apparent.

That's a scumread on Gin, right?

[Creature]

Scum likely in {Gin, LUV, Moogin, Realeo}

[Creature]

LUV looks pretty fine leaving his vote on my wagon, expecting a quickhammer and getting away.

[Creature]

Feeling like this is how he usually plays.

JarJarDrinks usually isn't generic like this.

[Creature]

So, you don't have any interess in Gin, Moogin or LUV? You just want to doubtcast my massive townread?

[Creature]

Something better = Wikipedia article size explanations

[Creature]

JarJarDrinks still didn't unvote me and LUV didn't either.

[Creature]

If I am correct about JarJar/LUV, it's scientifically proven that good scumreads come from beyond explanations.

[Creature]

WHY IS CREATURE TOWN

Someone that is not creature tell me, in detail why you read him as town?

I'm tired of this "he's probs town" and people expect me to buy into it

Can this be answered?

This post makes me really want to vote you. It's fluffy. You're asking questions and proposing scum teams without digging for analysis yourself. You're asking town to do the work and try to play supervisor. I don't like it at all.

[Creature]

I don't see Eddie Cane play being from scum.

[Creature]

I thought we reached the part we talk ourselves out of this mess and we solve the game.

[Creature]

JupiterCrush claimed Town Roleblocker.

[Creature]

na, i'm a town roleblocker.

[Creature]

Also, ironstove is Jupiter's main account.

[Creature]

we solve the game.

you haven't tried to do that yet, you still aren't.

Okay, so you're a parrot that will keep saying that the entire game.

Won't stress out, because I made more gamesolving in just my latest posts than you the entire game.

[Creature]

As long TwoFace vote doesn't become decisive, we're fine.

[Creature]

we solve the game.

you haven't tried to do that yet, you still aren't.

Okay, so you're a parrot that will keep saying that the entire game.

Won't stress out, because I made more gamesolving in just my latest posts than you the entire game.

As far as I can tell I've provided way more reasons why you are scum than you have for every single one of your multiple scum reads. So yah can kindly shove it.

Okay, I've provided my reads on every player in the playerlist while you've only provided your read on me. So I still win there.

[Creature]

Everyone is null
Creature/boon/Jupiter are probably scum

It's still useful to know that you also scumread boonskiies and JupiterCrush.

[Creature]

Also, you don't need to explain in very little details.

Sometimes just quoting a few posts was enough to change my mind on someone.

[Creature]

Don't remember saying I scumread Jupiter.

[Creature]

He seemed pretty different.

[Creature]

It must suck to have played mafia for 3 years and half yet still not know how to scumhunt.

[Creature]

If I were trying to find whatever wagon to join, I wouldn't oppose Eddie Cane and JupiterCrush wagon so much.

[Creature]

ESL too.

[Creature]

Hey Former

Based on your experience, what do you expect scum to be doing?

[Creature]

If I pick a post and just say "this post is towny", you'll either agree or disagree.

If I pick a post and explain why it's towny, you'll either agree or disagree.

It doesn't make a difference. You'll have to analyse yourself to see whether you agree or disagree.

[Creature]

I don't avoid explaining because I don't want, I avoid explaining because I find it hard.

Go on any of my towngames and you'll see I struggle to explain my reads.

[Creature]

Well, I am not the one who scumreads Eddie Cane, so.

[Creature]

Okay, whatever. Let's try to see if we can agree on things.

[Creature]

Do you think Eddie Cane voting himself and actively proposing for the lynch to be between him and boon comes from scum?

[Creature]

If I am scum, maybe we'd have a plenty of things to analyse or not, but first you'll have to see me flip scum before going to analysis.

If I am town, then yes, my flip will give no good info for that.
1. A mislynch will happen and scum will need one less mislynch to win
2. Scum won't be pressured at all
3. Scum won't need to stick their necks out to push a mislynch
4. Town will come back at Day 2 with zero info

[Creature]

idk, if players focuses only on active players, then it's easier for scum to just be low-hanging and survive a few days.

[Creature]

Feeling like Boonskiies won't flip scum.