Micro 680: Matrix6 No Reveal (Game Over!?)

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I know this is random voting stage but if I had to pick scum right now it would be Shannon. I think she is trying too hard to act casual and talk about things that don't have anything to do with this game. Contrast that to Transcend, who asks about pineapple pizza (delicious!) but in a jokey kind of way that doesn't look like he is trying to convince us that he is harmless.

I think Echo is rude and shouldn't have said that to Alisae. Hopefully they are friends and this is kind-hearted banter.

VOTE: Shannon

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I still don't find anything Trascend is doing scummy. He seems to be trying to figure out the game by taking stances and making accusations. So even though he is wrong about me, I won't be voting him. You can be town and be wrong, after all. In fact, you might be more often wrong when you are town, because scum already knows which side everybody is on. Echo and Shannon have posted since my post and the subsequent controversy surrounding it, yet neither have commented on it, which I don't like. Ari agreed with Transcend that my post was over analysis, but didn't vote me, which I suppose is ok. I'm inclined to see Alisae as town, but that might be clouded by him defending me. Really it is just as likely that Alisae is scum trying to get on my good side. To answer Ari's question, I have played Mafia in person with friends, and online (but it was very different there). Before playing on this site, I read some newbie guides and part of the wiki. So hopefully I'm not totally clueless.

I'm leaving my vote on Shannon. If I had two votes, I'd also vote Echo (his posts haven't done anything useful yet).

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while. Transcend said I never answered his question, but I went back and looked and couldn't find one. I don't like how Alisae said Shannon was Mafia for scum reading karnos off one vote, but that Echo's "reach" was worse? How is what Echo did worse? Alisae why did you claim when nobody made intent to hammer you? Shannon seems to think Alisae is scum because she doesn't think I'm new and Alisae thinks I am. Is that right, because that makes no sense. The only way I can work that out is that you think Alisae is scum trying to defend me so that if she is ever lynched people will think I'm her buddy and come after me next. Also I'm not a "he". At least the moderator got it right.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Karnos should claim now or explicitly state that he will not be claiming. I also intend to hammer, so if Alisae backs off we still should get a claim and some more discussion before we go to night.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

VOTE: Karnos

L-1

Karnos should claim if someone intends to hammer. I understand that this setup makes it impossible to verify until the end of the game, but forcing claims could give town PRs a more solid read on the person who is forced to claim, based on whether or not such a claim is possible given what the PRs know is possible with the set-up. I'm not saying for example that if Karnos fake-claims cop and there is a real town cop in this game that they should counter-claim, but at least the cop in that situation would know 100% that Karnos is scum.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Karnos has done nothing to try and figure out anybody's alignments. The single piece of useful information he has provided was his observation that Alisae changed reads three times in 24 hours. Other than that he complained about the setup of a game that he signed-up to join, and then refused to claim when threatened with a hammer. Jeesh, just because I don't spell it all out doesn't mean I haven't thought about it. Also, I already stated intent to hammer Karnos on the last page and nobody batted an eye. Now after someone unvoted him to L-2, I vote to put him back on L-1 and people start suspecting me?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Vote Count 1.10

Echo Vision (4): Aristophanes, Alisae, karnos, Prof Hamm T Smiggles III : L1
Karnos (1): shannon
Alisae (1): Transcend

Not Voting (3): BTD6_Maker, PenguinPower, EchoVision

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-02-12 09:24:49)

This is wrong. My vote is on Karnos.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

My vote on Shannon was L-2. You need to slow down a bit. I know you think you are being lynched, but take your time and read things in context rather than just believing whatever others are saying, including the mod apparently.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Echo, why aren't you voting me right now? I think you are either scum fake-claiming, or you are town with a terrible read on this game. You started attacking me based on two false pieces of information: 1) That I was voting you, and 2) That I had previously put Shannon at L-1. Even after this information was corrected you continue to push me as scum, yet you haven't moved your vote off of Alisae (unless the vote count is wrong again). Go re-read Karno's posts and tell me how he could possibly be town.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend also needs to explain his movements on and off the Karnos wagon, because that was suspicious.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

What do you make of Echo's claim?

I said he is either fake-claiming scum or just town with terrible reads. Once everybody else posts reactions to his claim we should have a better idea. Also your question looks like an effort to determine whether or not I might be a PR that can confirm his claim.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Do you scumread both of them?

Who are "both"?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend also needs to explain his movements on and off the Karnos wagon, because that was suspicious.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Also, I didn't attack you for voting me. Alisae pointed out some good points being that I should look into you because you have put two people at l-1 with shitty reasoning so I decided to look into your slot to see what other scummy shit you've done. turns out there was quite a bit of it...

The problem is you didn't really look into it. You took Alisae at his word and started attacking me based on incorrect information. Then when it was corrected you were too far gone to come back to reality. And aren't you scum-reading Alisae?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Echo, why aren't you voting Karnos again?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

So Echo finally got someone to vote me after casting doubts my way for the last few days. Oh, and look, as soon as he gets someone to vote me he finally votes me, too. I do think Echo is probably town, but that kind of play is quite terrible. BTD's Transcend push looks scummy. It's like he BTD appears after lurking and the towniest thing he can think to do is vote against a player that few are openly doubting, as a way to show his independent non-opportunistic thought process (yes, I know Karnos voted Transcend first).

I still think Karnos is the appropriate lynch. Notice how hard the game moved against a Karnos lynch after I got him to L-1 and there was an intent to hammer. All of the following players at one time expressed a desire to lynch Karnos and yet have left that wagon: PenguinPower, shannon, EchoVision, Transcend.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend and Echo, will you help me lynch my partner?

VOTE: BTD

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Hammster talk to me about your BTD read.

I explained how I didn't like his entrance in my 507. Also, he is just surface reading the game. Also, he doesn't look to be pushing very hard to lynch his SR. Also, lots of players are voicing suspicions of him and if he is scum I bet his partner has him in as a scumread right now and I like the idea of them squirming.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Aristo (because I haven't seen anything at all worth voting)

You're scum for this one read.
This read is legitmately saying "I haven't found an excuse to jump on them yet."
You're not looking for scum, you're looking for people to jump on.

I think Shannon might be scum but I'm not sold that this is a scumtell. But I also think there could be a hint of "being caught for the wrong reason" in Shannon's follow-up. More damning is her lack of pressure on me, who she is voting, and lack of follow-up on 413 and 516.

I want Karnos and BTD to give reads on Shannon.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Aristo (because I haven't seen anything at all worth voting)

You're scum for this one read.
This read is legitmately saying "I haven't found an excuse to jump on them yet."
You're not looking for scum, you're looking for people to jump on.

I think Shannon might be scum but I'm not sold that this is a scumtell. But I also think there could be a hint of "being caught for the wrong reason" in Shannon's follow-up.

More damning is her lack of pressure on me, who she is voting, and lack of follow-up on 413 and 516

.

I want Karnos and BTD to give reads on Shannon.

OK then, why do *you* think I'm scum? Let's get it all out of the way now so then we can move on.

I didn't say I think you are scum. I said you "might be" scum. My reasons are bolded above.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I want Karnos and BTD to give reads on Shannon.

For whoever is following along at home, BTD's response was much better than Karnos'.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I'd like to hear more in-depth reads on Karnos by those who have played with him before.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Alt but not a known alt, obviously doesn't want anyone to be able to read him based on his main.

You wouldn't be able to read me even if you knew my main. Also I'm not a him/his. Also I swear on my dead great-aunt's sister-in-law's grave that I'm town. Also I wanted to write one more sentence that started with also.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend, please unvote and do this for me...

I'd like to hear more in-depth reads on Karnos by those who have played with him before.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Claim fishing extraordinaire

I wanted you to claim when at L-1 with an intent to hammer on you. That's not claim fishing. Why should town refuse to claim when at L-1 with an intent to hammer?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend also needs to explain his movements on and off the Karnos wagon, because that was suspicious.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

hamm have you claimed yet cause if not now is the time

Not unless there is an intent to hammer.

And I think you should unvote before it gets to that.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I'm the jail-keeper.

Now let's lynch VOTE: Karnos

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Echo is conftown. Anybody else on my wagon can die.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Technically Echo isn't conftown. Scum could have been real lucky on a fake claim, but yeah pretty much conftown. So they'll kill me tonight and town gets conftown in Echo for at least days 2 and 3.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

VOTE: Shannon

Shannon is now confscum. I get it. Scum had to CC or 570 happens. But I can promise you 100% Shannon won't be dead in the morning. Or the next morning.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

With no flips, scum knows that if they lynch me today, they can take a shot at Echo tonight. Day 2 everyone is wifom'd (did Echo get hit as BP or did Shannon make a save?). Mislynch day 2. Night 2 they shoot and kill Echo. Day 3 is 2 scum V. 4 town and Shannon is just now being suspected of lying about being doc but probably doesn't get lynched until day 4.

Yeah I still wouldn't have CC'd as scum here in Shannon's shoes.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

608 is a pretty great townie post from scum. Not gonna lie.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Echo, why aren't you voting me right now? I think you are either scum fake-claiming, or you are town with a terrible read on this game. You started attacking me based on two false pieces of information: 1) That I was voting you, and 2) That I had previously put Shannon at L-1. Even after this information was corrected you continue to push me as scum, yet you haven't moved your vote off of Alisae (unless the vote count is wrong again). Go re-read Karno's posts and tell me how he could possibly be town.

I think a jailkeeper would make this post 0/10 times to a bulletproof claim.

So did you not read the subsequent posts where I make pretty damn clear that a) I don't have any interest in reading Echo as scum, b) I'm aware scum is looking for reactions to the claim so they can PR hunt?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

With no flips, scum knows that if they lynch me today, they can take a shot at Echo tonight. Day 2 everyone is wifom'd (did Echo get hit as BP or did Shannon make a save?). Mislynch day 2. Night 2 they shoot and kill Echo. Day 3 is 2 scum V. 4 town and Shannon is just now being suspected of lying about being doc but probably doesn't get lynched until day 4.

Yeah I still wouldn't have CC'd as scum here in Shannon's shoes.

Shannon claimed tracker, not doc, so that first paragraph doesn't make sense. So the tracker fake-claim is perfect for scum right now as they have no more town PRs or any flips that will counterclaim them, and they can give fake results on their way to an easy win.

Town really should lynch outside me and Shannon today and sort between the two of us by who is alive day 4.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

So the tracker fake-claim is perfect for scum right now as they have no more town PRs or any flips that will counterclaim them, and they can give fake results on their way to an easy win.

Town really should lynch outside me and Shannon today and sort between the two of us by who is alive day 4.

If we lynch outside me/Shannon, scum cannot shoot the jailkeeper tonight without losing Shannon tomorrow. Yes they can roleblocked me. The alternative if you lynch me is you can never know for certain if Shannon is fake-claiming tracker.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

lol no you're eating rope and that's that

You aren't considering how terribly town is fucked if Shannon is fake-claiming, which is pretty bad considering you have been bouncing between our two wagons recently.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

If we lynch outside me/Shannon, scum cannot shoot the jailkeeper tonight without losing Shannon tomorrow. Yes they can roleblocked me. The alternative if you lynch me is you can never know for certain if Shannon is fake-claiming tracker.

Transcend you are not thinking about this. Hopefully others will.

If you lynch me today:
1. You are mislynching JK
2. Shannon cannot be countered later as both town PRs are outed.
3. There are no flips to expose shannon's lie.
4. Shannon will have run of the game as un-CC'd tracker

I know shannon is confscum. Nobody else does. That's why I'm arguing we should be lynching outside me and shannon today. One of us (shannon) will be exposed as scum eventually when the other is night-killed.

Basically if I am a mislynch (I am), town loses the game the moment I am lynched.

Shannon doesn't want to wait this out because she knows the only way she can be exposed as lying about her claim is if I am NK'd. I have no fear of being exposed by shannon's death at night because there is 0% chance that that will happen.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I think with someone of hammys skill she would try to buddy me because we're prs

This makes no sense.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

@Echo

Echo, why aren't you voting me right now? I think you are either scum fake-claiming, or you are town with a terrible read on this game. You started attacking me based on two false pieces of information: 1) That I was voting you, and 2) That I had previously put Shannon at L-1. Even after this information was corrected you continue to push me as scum, yet you haven't moved your vote off of Alisae (unless the vote count is wrong again). Go re-read Karno's posts and tell me how he could possibly be town.

I think a jailkeeper would make this post 0/10 times to a bulletproof claim.

So did you not read the subsequent posts where I make pretty damn clear that a) I don't have any interest in reading Echo as scum, b) I'm aware scum is looking for reactions to the claim so they can PR hunt?

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p8835815]I don't believe this claim in any way so my vote stays.[/quote]

Technically Echo isn't conftown. Scum could have been real lucky on a fake claim, but yeah pretty much conftown. So they'll kill me tonight and town gets conftown in Echo for at least days 2 and 3.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Let's try that again...

Also, if you were really a JK then there was a 1/5 chance that I claimed the correct role to go with your jk and you never even brought it up.

Technically Echo isn't conftown. Scum could have been real lucky on a fake claim, but yeah pretty much conftown. So they'll kill me tonight and town gets conftown in Echo for at least days 2 and 3.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I'm just hoping someone with a brain will actually realize that regardless of my alignment if you lynch me you can never know for certain if Shannon is fake-claiming tracker or not.

This is worse than being mislynched. This is being mislynched with no flip and scum running the rest of the game as a fake-claimed PR.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

but your scum partner is gonna kill her tonight lol

I promise you shannon will be alive in the morning. And there will be a no-kill because scum will have shot at Echo's BP. And then shannon will be alive day 3 because they will finish off Echo night 2.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Transcend, you aren't even trying to understand the implications of this with shannon as scum. Take a step back and do that.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

Tell me under what circumstances do you lynch Shannon in this game after I've been lynched? She and her partner are going to run away with this.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

So other than being fake cc'd in a no-flip game, this was actually kinda fun. I'd play this set-up again.

Thanks for modding FA.

I can't believe nobody caught my alt-slip.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I didn't slip. Just trolling.

[Prof Hamm T Smiggles III]

I wanna read the scum chat but it says I'm not authorized.