Open 674: Duck Duck Goose [Game Over]

havingfitz · Post Post #19 (isolation #0) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:56 am

In post 11, outoforder wrote:I don't actually believe anyone ever goes to random.org or rolls a dice or something like that.

I've seen it done in RVS once or twice. People probably just can't be bothered when it's easier just to pick someone.

VOTE: outoforder

havingfitz · Post Post #24 (isolation #1) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:22 am

In post 23, Creature wrote:Aubrey's giving the most scum impression so far.

If you're serious....how so?

havingfitz · Post Post #30 (isolation #2) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:55 am

In post 27, Creature wrote:Ugh when someone wants me to describe "impressions"

If you weren't serious just say so. I'm not expecting a lot the first few pages. Ex. Aubrey's avatar was a fine answer. If you were serious though I'd assume you could verbalize the why.

*****************

outoforder....is Ooo an acceptable reference to you?

Is your RVS meta on hanapulali from this site or another one?

havingfitz · Post Post #34 (isolation #3) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:59 am

In post 28, doomfeathers wrote:havingfitz (unfortunately)

Hey now!

P.edit thanks Creature

havingfitz · Post Post #43 (isolation #4) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:07 am

Where is "there" Creature?

havingfitz · Post Post #51 (isolation #5) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:38 am

In post 50, doomfeathers wrote:Would you be opposed to me following up after Rels has answered?

Are you asking for permission to ask a question?

havingfitz · Post Post #115 (isolation #6) » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:47 pm

UNVOTE:

havingfitz · Post Post #205 (isolation #7) » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:52 am

Reread and catch-up thru page 5 (edit and now 9+).

Page 1:

Misc RVS bs/banter.

16 - First thing of interest...OoO asking Rels about Moogin's post. I know OoO elaborates on this a few pages later so this item of interest is OBE.

Interesting familiarity dynamic going on with the TLM folks (Rels, OoO and Hapa). Are the 3 of you good at reading each other? Is there reason to assume any different dynamics between TLM and MS will affect your ability to read each other?

No reads yet.

Page 2 brought to you by Doom, OoO and some Creature:

Early observation...OoO seems a bit defensive and he likes to condescend /ad hom people.

Is this normal for him Rels and Hapa?

Another early impression...Creature is being difficult instead of just giving straight answers to questions and seems fond of Aubrey.

Nothing too telling for me in the first two pages. Lots of Doom & OoO content. Doom is early tr.

Page 3:

Lots of OoO & hapa exchanges. Waiting for this string of posts to wind down for a final assessment but as of page three I can see logic on both sides. I think OoO is coming on pretty strong and defensive (as mentioned earlier) but he is putting a lot of what looks like is genuine effort into his posts. I.e. he believes what he is saying. On the flip side I think the initial push for an RVS vote, which is very standard here, based on meta from another website seems misplaced and therefore hapa is coming under unwarranted heat (if genuine as it appears to be).

Page 4:

Rels...what is your read on hapa? Do you share OoO's stance that hapa is scum in this game?

82 - Somehow after 6 posts I'm pinging Aubrey. More to come... And so is hapa.

@Aubrey...are hapa and I pinging you for "similar" reasons or is the similarity just the fact that we are both pinging you? If it's the former could you elaborate?

83 - Aubrey defends Creature.

KidAmn is coming across as town.

@KidAmn

...Post 92 infers that you are voting someone. I do not see you voting anyone following your unvote off Allo. Do you think you are voting someone?

@Aubrey

.....wrt post 94......what vote of KidAmn's are you referring to? smh.....

OK....fcuk.....KidAmn....what vote are you talking about? It looks like you are inferring you have a vote on OoO but I see nothing.

Page 5:

And we finally get into a little game setup theory. fwiw the obvious answer is to not discuss and to each his own.

@Rels...what in Doom's post 99 led you do tr him? I assume you looked at his 1 day of known scum meta on this site and saw something to read him town here. Can you share?

I'm still tr'ing Doom but I do like Moogin's post 113. I see where he is coming from...the Doom game theory did kind of come out of the blue. Like it has no place in that post. I have more wtf? with it feeling forced than I do with it being early vice closer to a lynch.

@KidAmn...what was the point of your post 114? Could you verbalize your thoughts instead of posting a video snippet (which I can not interpret).

OK...so Doom elaborates on his awkward post 100. Makes sense. But not a fan of discussing game theory wrt town arming. The more this is discussed the more it gives scum insight into what you are thinking. The more scum has to assume/guess the better. I really do not see the benefit in discussing arming at night.

And we get to the gist of me pining Aubrey. "trying to ask questions that don't exactly amount to much." This is the expansion of me "pinging" you. So my 6 posts in the first 2 pages of D1 are suspect because I am asking questions. WTF? Wait...asking questions surely isn't bad....it's that they don't amount to much (your opinion btw). Let's ISO/analyze those 6 posts.

19 - RVS on OoO (with a gameplay assist). No question.
24 - Asking Creature about his scum impression on Aubrey. HTF is that a bad question?
30 - Still engaged with Creature. A courtesy question to OoO followed by a question to understand his early hana suspicions...are they based on MS or a different site. And this is bad because?
34 - Banter with Doom and a thank to Creature for giving an actual response.
43 - Trying to figure out wth Creature is talking about when he says "there are many players being boring there". I thought he might have been referring to a different mafia site (ala TLM) and therefore possibly a 4th member of the TLM bunch.
51 - This is essentially a passive aggressive dig on my part at Doom to say he doesn't need anyone's approval to ask anything. This on the heels of a game we just played where I thought he put too much credence into the opinions of other players.

So there are my D1 first two page pre Aubrey pinging posts. Please let me know which questions you have issue with.

OMG....OoO post 118 is soooo difficult to read. I was glazing over halfway through it. I did power through it and found some good stuff in it but please OoO...can you be more concise? The longer a post is the less likely you are to get the information through to people. If something concise needs to be elaborated on you can un-concise specific points later. On that note...what do you mean when you say I am going to be a pain in the ass because I am not going to get anything you are saying? wtf? smh.... Because I took your post 11 literally and gave you an honest answer? You trying to slight two players (Moosin and me) before the game is still in first gear is a foul. This on the heels of several other comments you have already made up to this point towards KidAmn and hapa. We are obviously graced by your presence and can only hope to understand the majesty that is you. And after allllllll the intrigue and drama over why OoO asked Rels a super secret alignment deducing question that will be explained later drama....we get no result. lol.....truly worth the wait. I tend to agree with you that KidAmn is town...which of course means nothing wrt your alignment. And you agree with Aubrey. Excellent....please look at my comments above to Aubrey regarding his pinging/vote on me and explain what it is you agree with him on? Which questions/posts in particular do you find fault with? I think I like you ending comments towards hapa but I'm wallposted out at this point and need to step away and come reread that section a bit later.

wrt Aubrey's post 123 response to OoO's previous two posts....I do not think you answered his question. regardless I'll re-address it. In OoO's post 121 he quotes you and the quoted text looks like you are saying youunderstand what hana is doing with regards to KidAmn even though you do not agree with what he is doing. Is that correct? You liked what he was doing though you didn't agree with it. Is that right?

I wanted to finish my catch up but I have RL in conflict starting after this post.

On that note...

mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.

I will try to finish my catch up during my v/LA but posting will be limited due to family commitments.

I'll wait till catch up is complete to give my reads and serious vote.

Also...I ran out of time and wasn't able to link to all the posts I wanted to. Apologies....it is not the norm.

havingfitz · Post Post #423 (isolation #8) » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:58 am

In post 205, havingfitz wrote:mod...I will be v/LA from now until Tuesday morning.

Back. Will catch up asap.

havingfitz · Post Post #468 (isolation #9) » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:05 am

OK...apologies for cutting my catch up short. I'm typically v/LA on weekends and Friday I had to go pick someone at the airport, hence the abrupt stop.

Also...I realize these catch ups I do are not generally well received but I do them in a stream of consciousness to give other players a sense of what is catching my attention as I'm reading.

Spoiler: Catch up from page 6-19

Rels...people work at their own pace. ASAP means exactly what it means....as soon as I focking can. Which is now.

So I'm caught up as of hana's Page 19 vote on KidAmn.

Once again I'm up against a hard deadline and only have ten minutes to finish up...so here are my reads:

Town leans - Doom, Kop, KidAmn, Rels,
TBDs - Hawk, OoO, Moogin, Fredrick
Scum leans - Aubrey, Creature, hapa

I'll elaborate on more when I put my vote down. Probably tomorrow.

P.edit - CONGRATS HAWK!

havingfitz · Post Post #523 (isolation #10) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:52 am

496 @Rels...I've never seen someone not able to get replaced. it could take a few days but I do not see the mod doing anything to that slot.

Speaking of the mod...he hasn't logged in since Monday so he may have already got some offers to replace Fred.

And a votecount would be nice mod...

498 @Rels...when I read a game and see posts that have me nodding in agreement or feel as though they are like minded to what I am thinking I typically assign a town read to that person. I have seen more posts like that from KidAdm than I haven't. My two catch up walls should point to several Kid posts that I got a good feel from.

As the game progresses and we get flips...and more content is provided my reads are of course subject to change. As an example...I like Kop for the same reasons as I do Kid. But I think your post /case towards Kop has some good observations. So while I would not be interested in a Kop lynch atm over the players I find more suspect...I would say you have tarnished my read on him slightly. Also...the fact that two of my townreads are voting him (Kop) is annoying.

As for the players I do suspect...it is a tossup between the three of them.

I haven't like Aubrey for much of this game because of his lazy perch on me. When I am town, players who are coming at me are naturally going to warrant my attention (OMGUS bedamned). And while I can respect suspicions towards me if I think they are genuine, Aubrey however has been parked on me the entire game for extremely weak (and misplaced) reasons. I also think there is a good chance that at least one scum is a more active player who will try to push the game to meet their agenda vice sitting back and hoping things work out their way. Aubrey fits this line of thought. And the fact that he is generally being town read afaict makes no difference, even in his own opinion. That said...I do not think an Aubrey vote would not gain traction.

Creature is suspect because he is all over the place. He entered the game very reluctant to provide any legitimate responses and/or blew off questions. He has expressed a willingness to vote "almost" anyone. His flips in opinion on me (and his buddy Aubrey) have come seemingly out of nowhere and I fail to see any pro-town content coming from him.

hapa is suspect because 1) a town read for me (Rel) and a TBD for me but generally townread OoO both appear extremely confident in their suspicions of hapa. For more gut I would say than solid fact but familiarity does deserve consideration. I also really dislike the way hapa eased on to my wagon in support of the Aubrey (crap) suspicions towards me and then seemed to backtrack on the crux of Aubrey's case (my questions) and say it wasn't any particular questions more so than that multiple people had issue with them. Oh...and that I ironically warned OoO against wall posting in my wall post.

I think I weigh all of my suspects about the same...but I think hapa has the best chance of being the D1 lynch. My alternative to hapa would probably be Creature.

VOTE: hapahauli

havingfitz · Post Post #526 (isolation #11) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:49 am

In post 525, doomfeathers wrote:@fitz: Why did you ask me that, anyway?

In post 205, havingfitz wrote:51 - This is essentially a passive aggressive dig on my part at Doom to say he doesn't need anyone's approval to ask anything. This on the heels of a game we just played where I thought he put too much credence into the opinions of other players.

havingfitz · Post Post #529 (isolation #12) » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:23 am

In post 528, doomfeathers wrote:But why? I was investigating OOO. Were you encouraging me to go ahead and push for an answer? I'm very sure that would have been counterproductive

I wasn't pushing you to continue questioning OoO on that line of questioning...I was nudging you towards the realization that you shouldn't be asking permission to ask a question later on when you felt like it. I was trying to assist your play. Being pensive is either weak town or overly cautious scum. As you were an early tr I assume it's the former.

havingfitz · Post Post #568 (isolation #13) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:48 am

In post 543, hapahauli wrote:Rels and OoO definitely are NOT confident in their suspicion of me. Rels recently unvoted me. OoO mentioned that my posting is probably town unless I'm being super misleading about something in my case.

There's not a lot of substance for reading me as mafia here other than that I'm suspicious of you.

Iirc they have both been on you fairly aggressively most of the game. And OoO is still voting you and appears to be putting a case together on you. Rels has moved on for the moment but I'd rather him removing his suspicions towards you.

@hapa....have Rels or OoO ever mislynched you?

And just being suspicious of me isn't suspect. It's the disjointed adoption of Aubrey's "pinging" sensations towards me that I find suspect.

@Rels...have you and OoO played a lot together? Are you good at reading each other? Have you defeated eacheck other as scum?

havingfitz · Post Post #569 (isolation #14) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:49 am

In post 568, havingfitz wrote:but I'd rather him

EBWOP- but I don't recall him

havingfitz · Post Post #577 (isolation #15) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:09 am

In post 572, Aubrey wrote:All I keep hearing from you is whining about me, so please forgive me on forgetting that.

I didn't realize pointing out your flaws = whining.

In post 573, Aubrey wrote:Answer the first part of that post Fitz.

I addressed it in my read on hana.

In post 573, Aubrey wrote:and tell me how it would make u feel if I were to say that the only reason why I think you scumread me is due to the fact I initiated suspicion onto your slot and your just out for blood due to that.

Bored.

In post 574, Aubrey wrote:You also never remotely mentioned my retort. It's been nicely swept under the rug.

I didn't want a wallpost war repeating the same differing perspective towards my early game questions. I tend to beat dead horses and avoiding that is an ongoing goal of mine.

If there was something you specifically wanted a reply to let me know.

havingfitz · Post Post #581 (isolation #16) » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:37 am

In post 578, cassielle wrote:seriously tho where is towns vigor? why is no one begging for a chance to drop their case for scumreading some slot or another on the lady replacing in who is practically asking for it? why isn't there a line of people trying to convince me to get on their vanity wagon?

explain why the gamestate is like this, someone, anyone

I didn't realize you were a lady.

Hey there

Other than that just you reading the game and finding your own issues for us to mull over is all I'd ask.

And g g giggity...

havingfitz · Post Post #623 (isolation #17) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:18 am

As inferred earlier....I could get behind a Creature wagon. I suspect he and hapa independently of each other but the bussing theory isn't bad. I'm mostly on hapa as it looks to have better traction. If I had to choose I think hapa would be better to keep around as he would be more productive if town or more likely to give reason to suspect if scum.

Not interested in the Kop or KidAmn wagons.
A KidAmn vote somewhere would be nice.
More Moogin would be nice.

havingfitz · Post Post #625 (isolation #18) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:04 am

In post 624, cassielle wrote:why do you think that hapa is more likely to contribute or self-incriminate?

creature is amazing at scumhunting d2 onward as town -- id sheep town!Creature d2 unquestioningly in fact, and i just dont do that
so why do you think hapa is the better choice here?

i know why /i/ do and that is irrelevant, i want to know why you do

Based on what I have seen so far in this game. hapa actually appears to be making an effort with his posts wrt convincing others of his opinion (for what they are worth). And posting more content if he is scum (as I suspect) will eventually catch up to him. Creature based on what I have seen is all over the place and doesn't interact well with others (ex. question responses). I see effort from hapa but not Creature.

And as far as Creature's D2+ prowess is concerned...my limited experience with him is town!him mislynching town!me for a scum win. We have another game where he was town and I was scum but I don't recall his play there.

I have no experience iirc with hapa

havingfitz · Post Post #679 (isolation #19) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:11 am

In post 677, cassielle wrote:
In post 676, doomfeathers wrote:
Let it hereby be known that I would vote hapahauli at this point if I didn't want to keep the day going for a while yet.
^townie^

That's an easy town cred comment scum could make. I don't think Doom is scum but I hope there's more to him than that for your read.

havingfitz · Post Post #681 (isolation #20) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:36 am

Lol ...that door has been shut!

havingfitz · Post Post #767 (isolation #21) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:05 pm

v/LA till Monday morning. I'll post if I get the chance.

havingfitz · Post Post #769 (isolation #22) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:17 pm

UNVOTE: while v/LA

I feel 5 or 6 pages behind just from this morning and I see hapa posted a shitload. I want to catch up and not leave my vote on him on the weekend so I can catch up on his content and others.

havingfitz · Post Post #771 (isolation #23) » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:22 pm

In post 770, hapahauli wrote:probably Creature/Fitz/Kop.

When did I become a townread for you? And was Creature a tr for you? ffs.....

havingfitz · Post Post #872 (isolation #24) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:50 am

Back. Will catch up asap.

Also...OoO....post 869 is terrible. What part of your "filter read" comments on me are actually alignment indicative? (hint: none).

havingfitz · Post Post #884 (isolation #25) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:35 am

In post 879, Creature wrote:
If scum had daytalk
, we could make some hypothesis.

Creature must be town cause he didn't know scum had daytalk. I mean...how could he aside from the fact it's been mentioned several times and....

In post 2, Tenshii wrote:Mafia has daytalk

/sarcasm

havingfitz · Post Post #908 (isolation #26) » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:42 am

Incoming!!!!!!!

Spoiler: Catching up from Friday morning

Page 36 and 37

:

WTF is going on? How is Rels, who is v/LA I might add, suddenly gone from probably town to probably scum? He has been a tr for me since early in the day and I do not see myself voting him today (stalling alert! stalling alert!!!!!). I will admit that once I get someone in my head as a tr it takes something significant to change my mind. And nothing significant comes to mind for me wrt Rels. Short of someone providing some good dirt on him I’m good off his wagon.

Here are my reads as they currently stand.

Town leans: Doom, Hawk, BlackVoid, KidAdm + Rels and Kop (though I think an ISO is in order for them.)
TBD: Aubrey
Suspects: Creature, hapa, cassie, OoO.

If the game doesn’t generate a shitload of pages in the next 18 hours I should have my vote (and why) nlt tomorrow morning.

Also….

Mod….VC 1.12 should have KidAdm voting Rels and not hapahauli

Thanks, my bad. I'll update the previous VC and make a new one.

Also again…

Deadline looks to be ~2am EST Thursday morning

. So we still have time for a bit of sorting out.

havingfitz · Post Post #957 (isolation #27) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:40 am

I have niggling reservations about voting hapa but it seems the only alternative is Rels...who I tr.

I'll could give him (hapa) a pass on the TL meta stuff but I still didn't like his slide onto my wagon. He had some genuine posts that I liked. I did see spurts of effort. Bleh...

My vote would put hapa at L-1. I'll hold off till this afternoon to give Rels (anyone else) a chance to comment.

Also...cass...I did not skim thanks. I don't recall your numerous teaching moments coming as the result of specific questions to you. Moreso just in the course of conversation. If you were the IC in a Newbie game....fine. Here it feels more contrived.

Also...anything BV may have said regarding you had no bearing on my thoughts on you. I don't recall the misrep you refer to so I'll go have another look.

havingfitz · Post Post #1025 (isolation #28) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:48 am

In post 962, outoforder wrote:Deflecting a case on him based on nothing that was on the case != "here is why you are wrong". It is "i am discrediting you gor other atuff because i cant prove you are wrong".

What case? Remind me of your "case."

havingfitz · Post Post #1085 (isolation #29) » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:56 pm

OoO...your posts today were complete crap. I'm not even sure what you are suspecting me of. Because I made a wall post? Because I told you yours was painful to read and told you people in general didn't like them? None of which is AI btw. I do not care if you wallpost. If it's too unpleasant to read I just wont. It doesn't make you scum or town. And as for pausing before giving my reads...I didn't have time to finish my post. So I posted what thoughts I had and said I would finish up later. How is that a bad thing? smh.... Today was not your best day. Were you drinking?

In post 957, havingfitz wrote:
My vote would put hapa at L-1. I'll hold off till this afternoon to give Rels (anyone else) a chance to comment.

Sorry...meetings all day today and then out with family this evening. I'll be on most of the day tomorrow so lynching hapa won't be a problem if others don't beat me to it. I think the extended dialogue going on is good.

havingfitz · Post Post #1136 (isolation #30) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:38 am

In post 1087, BlackVoid wrote:@Fitz, if you are here, can we discuss Aubrey?

Here...catching up. If this request still applies...go for it.

havingfitz · Post Post #1146 (isolation #31) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:18 am

In post 1119, BlackVoid wrote:Your major concern with Hap was how he jumped on your wagon after Aubrey, right? Well, I have a hard time seeing him post the way he did towards the end of the day and I'm super-confident Aubrey is scum so I think you're looking at scum who voted you with weak reasoning and town wagoning right after as opposed to the other way around. If you have misgivings about Hap, you're right. The way Aubrey was taking on an almost consulting role where he just pops in and offers comments while never taking stances or pushing anyone has transparent scum motivation. We don't need everyone to vote Hap anyways. Join me here and we'll see how the VC turns out in the end.

Correct...that was my major concern and I think it was compounded by the little meta bias I had built up in my head from two players that know him well (I assume) finding him suspect. Which with that suspicion/bias removed after further consideration is less of an indictment on hapa. I didn't like Aubrey's case/push on me early game, so hapa hopping on...and then seeming to retract the bit pertaining to my early game questions (which iirc was the main point of Aubrey's suspicions to begin with) and throwing in some bs about the irony of me giving OoO shit about wallposting in a wallpost. lol.....

I do have misgivings about hapa since my early suspicions were raised but I'd rather see him lynched that a no lynch. I'll admit some of his defensiveness felt town; and I think ,while some might not agree with what he's saying he at least says it very well and his content as the game progresses would make him more transparent then one liner bursts (Creature) or no/low posting at all (Kop). Though the same advantage to lots of content could be said of Aubrey and cass too I think (and you).

We essentially have this entire day (EST at least) to vote and I'm not sure a move to someone else is doable. And the other alternatives are all players I'm not interested in lynching today (Rels.............KidAdm/Kop).

I have not really considered Aubrey as a wagon for two reasons...I did not think his wagon would get any support as he is generally being townread (iirc) and for a bit there I thought his posting had improved. Without thinking Aubrey was a legitimate D1 lynch option here is what my impression of him has been during this game:

Early on...suspected due to weak/lingering pinging sensation suspicions towards me. We went back and forth and back again until I got tired of the ~"no it's not" "yes it is". Then I don't know if it was because of some of my v/LAs or if he went awol a bit but he seemed to fall off my radar a bit. Yesterday I did not like his unwillingness to give his reads (which he ended up providing anyway)....but he did at least provide them. I like your points about the "consulting role" but he has at least been voting people. Probably the person I would like to see voted most would be Creature but for some reason beyond me...he is being generally townread too I think.

I'd vote any of my suspects (Creature, hapa, OoO) to include Aubrey over a D1 NL if they get the traction required. I left out cass because I actually would not want to see her lynched today despite niggling suspicions towards her.

havingfitz · Post Post #1147 (isolation #32) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:20 am

In post 1145, BlackVoid wrote:
In post 1143, Aubrey wrote:i expect a wall of an apology after all of the walls I had to read from you when I flip green.

Anything I say is just going to get twisted to meet your scum ideals.
He was calling me town just a few posts ago and now suddenly I'm scum. He can't decide between calling me bad and calling me scum

I think he means your ideas on who is scum...not that you are scum.

havingfitz · Post Post #1150 (isolation #33) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:28 am

BV...are you a known alt?

havingfitz · Post Post #1152 (isolation #34) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:33 am

In post 1151, BlackVoid wrote:No, I'm not an alt.

My bad. You said we'd played together and I didn't recall. I see you were nightkilled shortly after I replaced into our lone common game.

havingfitz · Post Post #1155 (isolation #35) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:37 am

VOTE: Aubrey

Let's see if this goes anywhere.

Aside from a few hours this afternoon I'll be around to move if necessary.

havingfitz · Post Post #1164 (isolation #36) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:31 am

In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.

I suspect cass and still think this post is scummy.

You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.

OoO wagon would work as well.

havingfitz · Post Post #1207 (isolation #37) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:13 am

In post 1176, outoforder wrote:I seriously believe we should murder fitz, or possibly Kop. Maybe hawk is the third scum but idk. I am not too confident on that.

Can you guys please go read fitz' filter and tell me how any of his reasoning for scumreads ever makes anyone mafia?

You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.

OoO wagon would work as well.

havingfitz · Post Post #1228 (isolation #38) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:40 am

Some Kop and Rels...and Doom thoughts on shit would be good.

havingfitz · Post Post #1229 (isolation #39) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 am

In post 1164, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1159, outoforder wrote:I have also decided that cassielle is town and i wont be reading any of her posts because they make literally zero sense.
I suspect cass and still think this post is scummy.

You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.

OoO wagon would work as well.

In post 1207, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1176, outoforder wrote:I seriously believe we should murder fitz, or possibly Kop. Maybe hawk is the third scum but idk. I am not too confident on that.

Can you guys please go read fitz' filter and tell me how any of his reasoning for scumreads ever makes anyone mafia?
You have ignored repeated questions by me to you...I have seen no case by you on me...and you have a tendency to ad-hom players and/or disparage their ability.

OoO wagon would work as well.

havingfitz · Post Post #1280 (isolation #40) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:28 pm

Unbelievable.

BV...you derail the hapa wagon (which I can live with) in favor of an Aubrey wagon (which I can live with)...spend several hours and countless posts making a case on Aubrey and pushing/urging/lobbying for others to join his wagon only to change your mind at the 11th hour to start one on a player I have been town reading. smh.....

I'm cool with Aubrey lasting because he at least will post...but not at the expense of someone I'm reading as town.

Really annoyed at Kop's lat post and he has garnered a fair amount of suspicion....

VOTE: Kop

havingfitz · Post Post #1283 (isolation #41) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:33 pm

In post 1249, Rels wrote:
In post 1228, havingfitz wrote:Some Kop and Rels...and Doom thoughts on shit would be good.
what I posted last night didn't suffice ?

I wanted your thoughts on BV's push on Aubrey which Seemed to take off after your last post of last night.

havingfitz · Post Post #1291 (isolation #42) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:47 pm

In post 1282, BlackVoid wrote:I don't really understand your townread on Hawk. Can you elaborate for me?

Above and beyond saying someone is a town read for me I don't want to play defense attorney for anyone...especially on D1. I'd rather find things I find suspect and hope that works out. Here is a response I gave to Rels with regard to reads:

In post 523, havingfitz wrote:...when I read a game and see posts that have me nodding in agreement or feel as though they are like minded to what I am thinking I typically assign a town read to that person. I have seen more posts like that from KidAdm than I haven't. My two catch up walls should point to several Kid posts that I got a good feel from.

As the game progresses and we get flips...and more content is provided my reads are of course subject to change. As an example...I like Kop for the same reasons as I do Kid. But I think your post /case towards Kop has some good observations. So while I would not be interested in a Kop lynch atm over the players I find more suspect...I would say you have tarnished my read on him slightly. Also...the fact that two of my townreads are voting him (Kop) is annoying.

If you look through my long ass wallpost catch ups (NAI OoO BTW) for mentions of Hawk I expect you will come across more positive reactions than negative.

As for his response after you voted him...I expect my response would have been similar following the Aubrey crusade you put on only to do a 180 vote on someone who may have been persuaded by your crusade. I want to find scum too but I'm not willing to just throw a dart at the player list with a blindfold on. I've got some wiggle room I am willing to work with and Rels...Doom...Hawk..to a lesser extent KidAdm aren't it. And you. Though I will say I am perplexed at a move that could potentially result in a D1 NL.

Kop has been on the peripheral of my townreads and I really disliked his flaky post today after being awol the last 2 days. And he has the suspicion of my town reads so that's a plus.

havingfitz · Post Post #1292 (isolation #43) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:48 pm

In post 1290, BlackVoid wrote:I think Rels has a decent chance of being your partner but I'm not sure of that.

I can't recall....had you said this? (going to look....)

havingfitz · Post Post #1301 (isolation #44) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:54 pm

I'm around for the next 60-70 minutes. I'm going to go look at your turnaround and Hawk's reaction.

Meanwhile...could you summarize the points you made on Aubrey in comparison to what changed your mind? I'm recollecting several suspicions vs 1 or 2 town tell comments...yes?

havingfitz · Post Post #1303 (isolation #45) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:55 pm

If I'm picking between Hawk, Kop or Aubrey it's Aubrey..Kop...Hawk.

havingfitz · Post Post #1304 (isolation #46) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 pm

What is your read on Kop Creature?

havingfitz · Post Post #1307 (isolation #47) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:58 pm

In post 1306, BlackVoid wrote:Would really, really prefer Hawk and he has more votes too.

It's 2 and 2. And one of Hawk's votes was a reluctant Rels move off Kop. Your enthusiasm looks like your pushing for Aubrey. I think you need your driver's license suspended the rest of D1.

havingfitz · Post Post #1312 (isolation #48) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:01 pm

In post 1308, BlackVoid wrote:Yeah, well people change their minds with new info.

In post 1301, havingfitz wrote:...could you summarize the points you made on Aubrey in comparison to what changed your mind? I'm recollecting several suspicions vs 1 or 2 town tell comments...yes?

havingfitz · Post Post #1314 (isolation #49) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:04 pm

In post 1309, BlackVoid wrote:@Creature, I think we're looking at Fitz/Hawk.

Unbelievable. So if people do not follow your every command they are scum? Because you are right and we are wrong? smh.....

havingfitz · Post Post #1330 (isolation #50) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:30 pm

In post 1324, BlackVoid wrote:If you look at how Hawk has approached this game, there's so much stuff that's weird inside information.

Do you have examples?

In post 1324, BlackVoid wrote:I'll also tell you this: I was holding onto this piece of information until I could ascertain Fitz's alignment for certain - Fitz hates bussing in general. When he was willing to vote you but not Hawk, that's when it confirmed to me that they were partnered.

My aversion to bussing is no big secret. You trying to link me to an alignment you do not know yet though is ridiculous. And the only lock tight tell from this tendency of mine is that if I am on a scum lynch I'm almost guaranteed to be town. Any other scenario has equally good chances of coming from scum or town me.

It that the foundation of your new scum read on me? You are all over the place BV. We've had two lynches that had potential to succeed today and you have derailed them both in less than 24 hours. Your play today has been unlike any I have seen.

If you ask anyone to vote a town read right at deadline with no good reasoning you can not expect them to do so. And I did go back to see Hawk's reaction to your Aubrey 180 vote on him and I do not see anything unusual in it. It looks like he is WTF!? reacting to your flip flop. As I would have as well.

This would still be good to have btw -

In post 1301, havingfitz wrote:...could you summarize the points you made on Aubrey in comparison to what changed your mind? I'm recollecting several suspicions vs 1 or 2 town tell comments...yes?

havingfitz · Post Post #1337 (isolation #51) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:05 pm

BV..if I told you to vote one of your top three townreads at the deadline for reasons you disagreed with instead of someone you at least had some concerns about what would you say?

I was ok with voting hapa and Aubrey when I did because of suspicions. Have you been okay voting everyone you've voted? Your points are making zero sense.

Lights out for me...early riser. G'nite.

havingfitz · Post Post #1343 (isolation #52) » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:20 pm

In post 1339, Aubrey wrote:You suspect them cause they are voting you and have a cold foul mouth at times?

Voting me and having a foul mouth aren't automaticreasons for suspicion.

I'm not presenting a case on OoO. I'm complaining about the fact he's ignored my questions...made no case on me I can see and is discrediting other players.

Which when laid out like that is stuff I find suspect in varying degrees. Zzzzzz
Out...

havingfitz · Post Post #1453 (isolation #53) » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:18 pm

In post 1452, momo wrote:VOTE: Havingfitz

The reasons are clear.

Do tell.

For whatever reasons OoO isn't providing?

Now that you've finished reading the game do you have any original thoughts?

havingfitz · Post Post #1454 (isolation #54) » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:26 pm

OoO...this is what answering a questions looks like:

In post 1450, outoforder wrote:Creature (or anyone with like over 10 games of experience on this site):
How likely it is that mafia would try to "derail" a D1 lynch on their partner into a no-lynch by making a case on another partner of theirs? Basically do no-lynches happen, and if yes, how often, in IML games (D1)?

I would say it's very doubtful. Not impossible if all the scum are being strongly scumread though.
No lynches are not uncommon at all. How often....who knows? I would guess maybe 10% of the time.

havingfitz · Post Post #1472 (isolation #55) » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:05 am

Coming off v/LA and catching up in other games...I have not poured over D1 to see where I need to revise my reads. I will say that suspicions towards me for not supporting a Hawk lynch are weak. I would have equally avoided a last second wagon change to any of my main D1 town reads. Ex. Rels. If BV had done his 180 on Aubrey and advocated lynching Rels or Doom I would have reacted the same way. Probably towards KidAdm as well. Kop was my only early town read that I was willing to move to at that point in the day which had a semblance of support...i.e. could avoid a no lynch.

BV...you went on about my meta yesterday (which I am happy to bring up when I have lynched scum)...but that meta does not hold true when I am off a scum wagon. Believe it or not...I actually have been known (more often than I like) to not be on scum lynches when I am town. I was wrong on Hawk. Just like I was wrong on Aubrey. As were you wrong on Aubrey, until something clicked for you, and me today.

Town is in a good place right now down 1 scum so if I am today's lynch you still have plenty of buffer for mistakes. And that's not even factoring in the added plus of if scum shoot at an armed town.

My current reads snapshot is:

Town - Blackvoid, Rels....probably Kop. Probably momo (based on Doom...not momo).
Fence - Creature, Cassie, KidAdm
Suspect pool - hapa, OoO, (tbd off the fence?)

As for my hapa question...is my question to hapa (ironic or not) a bad thing? One of the points several people (not sure if I was one of them) made against hapa was that he was ONLY suspecting people who had suspected him first. In hindsight I actually think I might be one he suspected first but atp I was looking for his reply (and overlooking that I might be the answer). Just like when you give an answer to your question to me....Cassie. Near the end of D1 Kop. That would be two.

I have a few other games I am catching up on as well so I might not do a lot of deep posting today (as opposed to light comments/reponses by phone).

P.edit not considering several posts made since #1457.

havingfitz · Post Post #1486 (isolation #56) » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:56 am

In post 1478, BlackVoid wrote:@Fitz - most of your reads besides Cass and Kop are of people that pushed you and the Kop read didn't happen till the end of day. Why would you consider it worthy of questioning Hap on omgus read when you've been doing the same thing?

BV...we're talking about D1. Short of something substantial D1...OMGUS is something I factor in. I town read several (4-5?) people D1. POE alone narrows that down to the group that included people suspect of me. I do not know about you but when I am town and shade starts being cast on me I wonder what the motives are. That's why when people do shade me I typically ask for their rationale. If they are putting a lot of logic and effort into it I can overlook the fact I am being read wrong. But I at least like the chance to defend myself from those allegations to prevent others from adopting the same suspicions towards me. Look over my ISO and you will see this train of through through out my D1 posts. You suspect me today. Do I suspect you? Same with momo. So 1) I haven't been doing the same thing hapa was accused of (only OMGUS) and 2) even if I was...hyopcrisy is NAI.

On pt 1) you are making an observation about me (I'm only suspecting those who suspect me) while at the same time providing a counter to your observation (cassie)...on top of which I provide one more (Kop).

I questioned hapa on only excercising OMGUS suspicions D1 (while overlooking I myself was a contradiction to that observation) because iirc more than one person had used that as grounds for suspicion towards him. I was still trying to sort out hapa in my mind as end of D1 got closer and wanted to see if he could provide any examples where that observation was not true (once again...forgetting I was an example).

I'll try to get the hapa/OoO/Rels stuff responded to in the next day or two.

havingfitz · Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:33 am

RL in the way today....still out and about now. I'll try to content tomorrow latest.

havingfitz · Post Post #1735 (isolation #58) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:07 am

In post 1710, outoforder wrote:If you want to lynch Hapa the only player he really makes sense as mafia is me, so i propose that you lynch me instead of him.

In post 1472, havingfitz wrote:Suspect pool -
hapa, OoO
, (tbd off the fence?)

Works for me! I'm good with either of your lynches.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK BV...sorry for the delayed response. Three other games at more critical junctures and RL took priority.

I believe you asked me to elaborate on my Rels town read and my suspicions of OoO and hapa.

WRT Rels...my early catch up gave mention to an early townread on Rels (due to likeminded posting) and coincidentally I give my townread process to Rels in Post 523. This post also has my early thoughts towards hapa (and a few others). It's what I usually draw my early town reads from. Beyond D1 as the game progresses...my townreads are effected by other actions (ex. claims, flips, more posts to assess).

As for today...I have seen nothing to sway me from my tr on Rels. Plus he was willing to vote scum!Hawk. Likewise on hapa....he was also willing to vote scum!Hawk which is probably the main reason I have pause towards him being scum. While I was willing to give him a pass on the meta case brought up against him by Rels and OoO I still do not like his awkward agreement with Aubrey's early scum read on me. It felt like he was taking lazy advantage of weak suspicions thrown my way. I don't recall why Aubrey spent much of day on hapa but it makes my suspicions feel more valid with Aubrey suspecting hapa. I also do not like the fact hapa has abandoned this game but I don't think that is necessarily AI so I won't hold that against him. But I do not like it. I just hate voting dead slots. I will....but I don't like to. Otherwise the only voting that hapa did D1 that I have issue with were his stance on KidAdm and his time on my wagon. He hasn't posted D2 so nothing new to judge him on.

I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him but the only players not on the Hawk lynch were me, Kop, Doom and KidAdm. I'm town. I have tr Doom (though momo is trying his best to change that) and KidAdm the entire game. Kop is iffy but he is heading towards replacement probably. Plus...as has been mentioned...Hawk probably doesn't try to shift a wagon onto a scum buddy just to save his own neck.

In regards to the end of D1...Hawk had three votes and momentum when he switched from Aubrey to Kop. I don't know if he really thought a Kop wagon had a chance (in which case voting a buddy would produce some nice Kop town cred) or if at that point in the game he was more interested in getting a no lynch. Which almost happened. I'm rambling. I think Kop is probably town but not a lock by any means.

I haven't had a chance to present my OoO suspicions due to lack of time but I started on this early this morning and I want to post what I have while I have the chance. I will present my OoO stuff NLT tomorrow.

havingfitz · Post Post #1737 (isolation #59) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:10 am

In post 1726, outoforder wrote:Also remember there is never going to be more than 1 mafia in the Hawk wagon.
Never ever never.

If you and hapa are scum you absolutely want town to believe this hypothesis.

havingfitz · Post Post #1744 (isolation #60) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:33 am

In post 1740, cassielle wrote:fitz is best lynch for today imo

Was there more to your opinion than reading my ISO?

Any specifics I can address?

havingfitz · Post Post #1746 (isolation #61) » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:39 am

I get poe....some of my reads are based on it. But how is Aubrey linked to me giving he was pretty much confirmed town? I don't see anyone being implicated by Aubrey's nk.

Now if people want to hold my Aubrey suspicions against me in light of his flip...that's different. Misguided but more valid.

havingfitz · Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:28 pm

In post 1747, outoforder wrote:Why was Aubrey confirmed town?

After Hawk flipped scum Aubrey was basically confirmed town. If you don't think so explain why. Right after you provide the case on me you haven't made yet (unless I've missed it).

havingfitz · Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:29 pm

In post 1749, cassielle wrote:and so someone doesnt know what nightkill analysis is or is trying to obfuscate and redirect

NK analysis is WIFOM at best. Please layout what you learned from the nk....

havingfitz · Post Post #1779 (isolation #64) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:15 am

In post 1424, outoforder wrote:havingfitz did something he earlier said is not pro-town.

This is an absolute lie. Show me where I did what you claim I did. Using a lie as the basis for your case on me IS anti-town. Ie scummy as fcuk.

havingfitz · Post Post #1781 (isolation #65) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:18 am

momo is <insert ad-hom> player.

P.edit....you mean what OoO said? Yes. Lol smh at "hidden agenda"....

havingfitz · Post Post #1782 (isolation #66) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:56 am

In post 1775, outoforder wrote:
In post 1765, havingfitz wrote:
In post 1747, outoforder wrote:Why was Aubrey confirmed town?
After Hawk flipped scum Aubrey was basically confirmed town. If you don't think so explain why. Right after you provide the case on me you haven't made yet (unless I've missed it).
Nonono. You dont get to do that.

Because you:
- suspected aubrey enough to vote for him
- have suggested literally that you believe both of Hawk's mafia partners bussed him

Therefore, why was aubrey confirmed town? Hawk's flip cant possibly make him confirmed town to you since aubrey would have the most reason to bus as mafia (as he was the counterwagon to hawk's initially).

yesyesyes I do get to do that liar.

Because:
I suspected Aubrey enough to prefer him to a no-lynch combined with the compelling Aubrey case/vote BV made that was also supported by Creature/hapa and Hawk. Why can I not, in hindsight, say Aubrey was "basically confirmed town" in light of the facts from D1? 1) He was the pre-counter wagon to scum!Hawk. He was the post-counter-wagon to TBD but highly suspected!hapa wagon.

If Aubrey was to remain in consideration as a scum suspect one would have to believe that Hawk was scum with hapa and Aubrey as Hawk could have easily stayed off scum!Aubrey and put hapa at an equal vote count to Aubrey (4 votes) or laid low and not put a vote down on Aubrey at all in hopes of gaining a mislynch. And once BV unvoted Aubrey and the Aubrey wagon started to disintegrate..a Hawk move on to the hapa wagon would have put hapa ahead of Aubrey.

So you can nononono all you want but IMO after the shifts in wagons and Hawk's scum flip...Aubrey was basically confirmed town. And if you disagree....why would you agree with my comment the NK of Aubrey doesn't implicate anyone which WAS BASED on the fact Aubrey was basically confirmed town? You are trying to have it both ways. Agreeing that no one can be implicated in Aubrey's nk while using my basis for that observation as fuel to implicate me.

As for your second point...you need to learn the definition of literally. I did not literally suggest both Hawk's partners were bussing him. I literally said "I find it hard to imagine both of Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him" ...as you have inferred as well. I go on to suggest doubt in that belief based on who was off Hawk's wagon...which could infer that I am off on my reads of those players. But you are twisting my words to fit your............"agenda."

And these are the crap points you find excellent momo. Awesome.

havingfitz · Post Post #1794 (isolation #67) » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:45 am

Seriously cassie? My "DOUBT AT ALL" about Aubrey's flip is based on the fact I am discussing why Aubrey was NK'd. Stating Aubrey was basically confirmed town and therefore made perfect sense as the NK. Aubrey's actual flip...which of course I was aware of...has nothing to do with the discussion of events that occurred PRE-FLIP.

Do you understand?

Unbelievable....smdh....

momo...what are people listening to you about? You haven't said shit. Other than concurred with a misleading post by OoO you have done nothing. Go sit in the corner and color.

WRT OoO...OMG...he is IN MY MIND! Lol. (not.)

OoO point 1

1.1) You're new here...I think this might be your first game on the site. That early comment to you was an an FYI. Forgive me from making an observation about your wall posting. I was letting you know that wallposts are not popular and the potential exists for people to glaze over them. The fact that I make the ocassional wallpost myself is not AI. Due to the nature of my availability I find myself making frequent cath up posts in games which results in wall post. I realize they aren't popular. People have more than once bitched about them. I don't give a fcuk...I do it anyway. As both alignments. You wanna wallpost...you go for it. The fact my FYI to you is being twisted into a lie that it is somehow AI of you to post one followed by me posting one (also AI apparently) is a misrep and assinine.

I did not say I won't read posts that are "boring"...you are misrepping me again. After you indicated you were scumreading me because I wallposted after telling you how they were typically received I was basically telling you I didn't really give a crap if you wallposted and that if any of your posts were too painful to read I just wouldn't. It was my giving you the I don't fcuking care if you wall post retort to your pissy defensiveness. You mention "boring" several times....something I do not say in any of my posts directed at you as you falsely claim.

Also...you try to make the insinuation that I will not read "boring" posts out like it is a bad thing when

you yourself have flat out stated you will not read cassie's posts because they make zero sense.

1.2) As for Aubrey...how is saying someone is most likely town taking D1 events into consideration scummy? First off...you use multiple quotes that do not belong to me. If you are going to "quote" me use my actual words.

I did NOT say "Aubrey was confirmed town after Hawk flip"
What I DID say was "Aubrey was

pretty much

confirmed town" Pretty much leaves a modicum of doubt. I followed that up in my next post calling Aubrey "basically confirmed town". Still a shred of doubt. (

Note to cassie

...none of this is taking Aubrey's actual flip into account).

I did NOT say "it's totally possible, EVEN LIKELY, that there is two mafia in Hawk wagon"
What I DID say was "I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him BUT...." There is that modicum of doubt again.

The doubt is there because I'm not 100% of anyone's alignment but mine...Hawk's...

and yes cassie

...even Aubrey now that he has flipped.

As for me saying I had suspicions towards Aubrey D1...what is your point? I don't even know how to respond. You are not making sense...you're just typing shit.

FYI...if Aubrey was still alive today I would not be completely discounting the possibility he was scum. I would find it highly unlikely over most everyone else in the game (aside from me and probably BV)...but the chance would have still existed.

In other words...your point 1.2 is shit.

OoO Point 2

2) This is a misrep...I do not believe I have laid out why I suspect you. And if I inferred reasons somewhere they certainly did not include suspecting you because you're a dick. That's NAI. You say I list that as a reason for you being mafia....

show me where I say that. You are LYING once again.

OoO Point 3

I have been swimming upstream D2. Combined with less time than I would like and responding to questions or suspicions pointed towards me. If you think my "Focus" is off that's a combination of your opinion (which is tainted) and how my posting has been constrained today.

tl:dr;

What's "fcuking clear" is you (OoO) like to lie to suit your objective.

havingfitz · Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:22 am

cassie...your post 1783 seems like you are saying I am scum because I do not realize (post flip) that Aubrey is town. You even provide links to the mod's reveals. How you can make that point against me when no where do I insinuate I do not know (today on D2) that Aubrey is confimred town by virtue of his flip and subsequent town status.

You are using Aubrey's flip as a negative towards comments I am making to OoO that are not meant to factor in Aubrey's ACTUAL flip. You say it indicates that I "AM NOT READING THE GAME". You should actually be ashamed of yourself for bringing this hypothesis even up for consideration. To insinuate I did not realize Aubrey's alignment was know when D2 started is completely absurd.

I do not see how you can push such a theory.

havingfitz · Post Post #1818 (isolation #69) » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:04 am

I'm at the start of a 3 day weekend....so posting time will be limited for a few days. I might be able to get some time later today but skiing tomorrow...so very very limited tomorrow. And Sunday not looking too good. Other than quick responses from phone no substantial posting will be available.

I haven't read anything since my last post. I'm not sure what the vote count is but:

VOTE: hapa

I'd vote OoO but I do not feel I have had time to summarize my suspicions of him properly. We have a lot of time left in the day so if people want to wait I can promise Monday. Otherwise...(AtE alert! AtE alert!) I feel I am going to be in defense mode for the entirety of my time left in this game so it might be better for town to just push through the lynch on me while there are mislynches to spare.

Whatever you all (town) decide works for me.

havingfitz · Post Post #1819 (isolation #70) » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:06 am

In post 1810, cassielle wrote:so you could aim ad hominem

Saying you should be ashamed of yourself is an ad hom? That's pretty thin skinned. Wait...is that an ad hom too?

havingfitz · Post Post #1844 (isolation #71) » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 am

Sitting in DMV waiting to be called....

In post 1820, cassielle wrote:but gj, once again you manage to deflect from the post i made in 1795
its almost like you have no sufficiently townie response to 1795

just in case you missed it this is 1795:1795

In post 1795, cassielle wrote:you dont even point out what changes? why they indicate town!aubrey pre-flip? anything?

What have I ignored? I've addressed your ridiculous point about not realizing Aubrey had flipped town and in at least two long responses to OoO I explain at length why I think Aubrey was nk'd...i.e. why Aubrey was "pretty much confirmed town. "

havingfitz · Post Post #1967 (isolation #72) » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:57 pm

In post 1960, outoforder wrote:
It's going to be fitz.
There are no reasons to townread him, ever, in this game. I am gonna call you all bad if it's fitz. I accept being called bad if it's not.

I just dont see anyone else being mafia, espectially after that dumbass NK.

FYI, being a huge asshole is not a prerequisite to playing on this site OoO.

FYI, making asshole comments like in the quote above are not a prerequisite to playing on this site OoO.

I'm not scum. Go ahead and make...or reiterate if you have somewhere already... your case on me.

I want to read the game over and I just imagine my suspicions will remain on OoO. And then hopefully if OoO does wind up being today's lynch...this game will be over. I've found the constant defending from yesterday to be quite the fun-kill.

havingfitz · Post Post #2188 (isolation #73) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:19 am

Checking in.

Was without power most of yesterday due to blizzard in New England and digging out from 12+ inches of snow this morning. Have not read anything since my last post. Will try to catch up today.

havingfitz · Post Post #2199 (isolation #74) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:21 am

In my read through I see BV had some questions for me. Here are some links he asked for before I get into general game commentary (I also think I have some questions from KidAdm I need to respond to)...

Here are some games as town where I objected to the day's lynch.

See post 626. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=69822

Annnnd I just relooked at the BV question....have I objected to a scum lynch before as town.....ffs...not asking for much there.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=62114 - In this game I hold off voting for quite a while to start D2 and towards the end of D2 I defend the impending mislynch (FA_Q2).

Of the limited games that I'm off the D1 or D2 lynch I only find the few above where I express my objection. I adamently objected prior to a D1 mislynch in one of my ongoing games as well but as it can't be referenced and I'm still alive....oh well.

Games as town where I held off voting:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69456 Replaced in D1. Never voted D2. Delayed voting D3. Also worth noting that in this game I held off voting a suspect (Grey who flipped mafia) in favor of extending the day. Similar to my willingness to take my vote off hapa D1.

Typically I like to have my vote in play. In the same ongoing game I do not refer to above I go long periods on two days without voting. As well as in another of my ongoing games. I think that is more a function of v/LAs and RLS affecting all games equally and not so much for AI reasons.

havingfitz · Post Post #2200 (isolation #75) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:56 am

@ KidAdm...I assume the question/s you are referring to are from your post 1803.

Well...your post kind of provides my response. OoO says I am scumreading him because he is being a dick to other people.

My response to that (and to several other misquotes I lay out in the same post) is that I never call OoO a dick. If you want to infer that I think he is a dick (which I actually do given his play of late) because I say he is ad-homing people and disparaging their abilities...that's your perogative. I do not however always think that ad homing people and disparaging another person's play makes someone a dick. So my objection to OoO saying I scumread him for being a dick was quite literally based on the fact I had not called him a dick.

The failure (IMO) to answer my questions...the failure (IMO) to provide a case on me when he feels I deserve his vote...and the ad-homs towards and disparaging of others are some reasons I suspect OoO and would like to see him lynched. And for D1 suspicions they are were than suitable reasons for me to be good with an OoO lynch.

But I'm not sure where you think you have caught me in a lie. The lie (by OoO) is saying I suspect OoO for being a dick. To be clear...I do not think someone being a dick is alignment indicative in the least. I even say that somewhere in my response to OoO.

I do however think setting the groundwork of discrediting the ability of other players is suspect and benefits scum when said discredited players make cases/comments that are detrimental to scum's wincon...they may be taken less seriously by other town. But OoO doesn't defend himself against that...he defends it against the lesser NAI offense of being a dick. Which I did not call him.

What are your thoughts on the blatant misquotes OoO attributes to me that I point out in post 1794?

Basically I take issue with people paraphrasing me and calling it an actual quote.

havingfitz · Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:52 am

In post 2201, outoforder wrote:So you are casing for reasons you literally stated were not the reasons to case me earlier on. Good job!

You said I was scumreading you because you're a dick.
I never called you a dick.
If I had scumread you for being a dick that would be a shit reason IMO.
Ad homing is a very minimal reason to suspect someone.
Discrediting players undeservedly however is somewhat AI IMO.
You took an AI reason I suspected you and twisted it into a NAI reason.
A misrep.
A suspect action.

havingfitz · Post Post #2222 (isolation #77) » Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:51 pm

In post 2205, BlackVoid wrote:@Fitz, okay I'll look over the games. Another question you might have missed: when I unvoted Aubrey D1 and voted Hawk, why did you switch to your weak townread Kop instead of going back to your scumread Hap? Hap had more votes at the time too.

I was wavering on my scumread on hapa based on the case you made for town!hapa. You had made a convincing case on someone (Aubrey) I was willing to vote. When you backed off Aubrey due to whatever tell you had seen and moved to Hawk...that was not an option for me because I was townreading Hawk. So that left me with the options of hapa (who you had made a town case on and I assume you were still townreading)...Creature (who was being townread by most/all) and OoO (who was being townread by most/all). So really my non-Hawk options in my mind were hapa or Kop (my weakest town read). Kop had lurked hard and the post he had made just prior to me voting him really pissed me off. And I'd rather be rid of someone who was suspect and underposting than someone who was suspect and at least participating and making actual posts with content and thought involved. And hapa could always be re-looked at D2 assuming he made it there.

havingfitz · Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:47 pm

In post 2245, KidAmn wrote:Momo has had literally 0 original thoughts this game. At this point PoE says Momo or Fitz, and since I'm not getting Momo

Vote Fitz

It is my understanding this is L-1. Claim.

I think this is hammer.

Not a big fan of being first town lynched to lose a perfect town win.
I'd go for OoO tomorrow. Disappointed in the Rels and KidAdm rationales.
Bleh...

havingfitz · Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:56 pm

In post 2249, Rels wrote:UNVOTE: havingfitz

I think this is too late.

momo, OoO, KidAdm and you = lynch.

fwiw I never armed lol....not that I'd have needed it.

havingfitz · Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:54 am

In post 2252, Rels wrote:5 to vote. You were not hammered.

D'oh...I saw all the L-4s and had 4 on the brain.

Any questions for me Rels?

havingfitz · Post Post #2256 (isolation #81) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:19 am

Probably you since OoO and I are both likely to get lynched unless the game comes to an end first. You are a better fit for a vig kill.

havingfitz · Post Post #2259 (isolation #82) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:16 am

Not sure how to confirm a reaction.

Basically I checked in...saw you and KidAdm had voted me and scrolling up the page I saw the votecount with all the L-4s. So my lack of caffeine/sleep reaction was legit. And I thought OoO was voting me. I know what L-4 indicates but brainfarted it this morning.

havingfitz · Post Post #2261 (isolation #83) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:19 am

In post 2260, outoforder wrote:Come on there's a votecount on the same page that says "5 to lynch" of that Fitz post rofl.

I'm awake now. What's your excuse for not knowing what you are doing?

In post 2126, outoforder wrote:So Rels, what's up?
UNVOTE: havingfitz

havingfitz · Post Post #2262 (isolation #84) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:23 am

In post 2260, outoforder wrote:Come on there's a votecount on the same page that says "5 to lynch" of that Fitz post rofl.

I acknowledged the votecount already. And it's not like it blatantly states that requirement. Buried on 2 lines near end of post =/= as clear as "5 to lynch".

In post 2226, Tenshii wrote:
Votecount 3.4 - You stole my pagetop edition

[L-4] havingfitz - momo
[L-4] momo - KidAmn
[L-4] outoforder - Rels

Not voting: outoforder, BlackVoid, havingfitz, cassielle, Creature

With 8 alive, a majority vote is decided with 5 players.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-03-27 10:45:00)

It's a minor oversight on my part. Feel free to run with it.

havingfitz · Post Post #2281 (isolation #85) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:42 am

In post 2274, momo wrote:VOTE: Havingfitz

You're already voting me...I really wish I was a day vig.

havingfitz · Post Post #2285 (isolation #86) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:54 am

In post 2228, outoforder wrote:I am voting for havingfitz.

In post 2258, outoforder wrote:@ Tenshii :
In post 2114, outoforder wrote:like i cant discuss anything with you when you do this.
i hope you're town and we lose.
UNVOTE: Rels
VOTE: havingfitz

In post 2261, havingfitz wrote:
In post 2260, outoforder wrote:Come on there's a votecount on the same page that says "5 to lynch" of that Fitz post rofl.
I'm awake now. What's your excuse for not knowing what you are doing?
In post 2126, outoforder wrote:So Rels, what's up?
UNVOTE: havingfitz

In post 2265, outoforder wrote:
In post 2261, havingfitz wrote:What's your excuse for not knowing what you are doing?
I don't understand the question.

You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when you can even keep your own vote status straight.

havingfitz · Post Post #2287 (isolation #87) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:56 am

@bv....at work. Will answer shortly.

havingfitz · Post Post #2300 (isolation #88) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:30 am

In post 2294, outoforder wrote:WAiiiiit. You knew i was not voting for you but you somehow "thought" L-4 + 2 votes = lynched?!?!?

Nice overreacting. When I thought I'd been hammered it was taking into account the fact you were telling the mod (erroneously) that you were voting me.

I didn't check until later when I was updating my vote spreadsheet. After Rels pointed out I wasn't hammered.

havingfitz · Post Post #2328 (isolation #89) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:48 am

So BV...what did I like about your hapa case.

Well...for one thing...the fact it came from you. I think by the time you made your case for town!hana you had over 60 posts. One series of which basically came to my defense from OoO's assinine suspicions of me due to the fact I wallposted after letting him know most people didn't like them and for giving my crap about posting a section of my catch up with the promise of more later.

I did not see any reason scum would defend me and your words were basically coming right out of my mind. So in my mind you are pretty strong town as far ass D1 town reads go.

I would not say any of my scum reads were etched in stone on D1 so the scum read I had on hana was tenuous. I think I had expressed a willingness to discard the suspicions based on Rels and OoO's early scum read. I did however still object to the way hapa had slipped on to my wagon for Aubrey's weak reasoning.

So in my mind I still suspect hana..I've had issue with Aubrey...and my other suspects are all being widely town read. And I have not put any cases together on them that would get any support. Aside from hapa and Aubrey any suspicions I have are based on gut.

Then I wake up on the deadline day and you are lobbying me directly that hapa is town and Aubrey is scum...with addiitonal supporting posts both before and after the one I link to.

The fact you looked over some of his other games was convincing (something I do not typically do).
The opinion if town...that hana would be a strong asset played a consideration also.

So fine....hana is a weak D1 scum read who will work as a lynch but you are adament he is town. Aubrey is someone I've suspected who you are adament is scum.

Works for me.
But wait....Flip flop Aubrey is town....kill kill kill Hawk NOW! Deadline approacheth!

But wait....I don't support wagons on players I town read.

If it's not going to be Aubrey...and your defense of hana is still valid as far as I can see...then who? Creature? No. OoO? Sadly not. Kop has a lot of suspicions towards him and he's lurking hard and posting complete shit as of late (iirc he did have some early posts I liked)....fine...I'm not doing Hawk but if you are so confident that hana and Aubrey are town...Kop would do for a D1 lynch. If Kop's not scum as least he's been pretty worthless town up to this point.

As for OoO...I'm not voting him because I haven't had the chance to put together a proper case on him. Work/weekend vLAs/blizzards/ultra-defense question answering mode have tied me up in here.

havingfitz · Post Post #2329 (isolation #90) » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:15 am

In post 2290, outoforder wrote:
In post 2285, havingfitz wrote: You give me shit for getting lynch requirement wrong when
you can't even keep your own vote status straight.
I am voting for you and Tenshii just missed my vote.

In post 2291, outoforder wrote:
At least fucking pretend you're reading the game scum.

In post 2292, outoforder wrote:wait wtf:
VOTE: havingfitz

Irony...

havingfitz · Post Post #2352 (isolation #91) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:56 am

outoforder:

My general read on OoO this game (without doing a line by line conf biased based ISO) is that he has sewn the seeds of doubt in numerous people this game. The ad-hom and disparaging to undermine the credibility of several players. Not direct quotes but iirc comments along the lines of "so and so wouldn't understand" "beyond him/her" "doesn't know what the hell they are doing" inferring players are dumbasses. If I thought OoO was town and was considering the comments of another player...how would the fact that other player is essentially being called incompetent affect my willingness to listen to that player? I.e. the more players whose credibility is called into question the less serious flack scum can expect to face from those discredited players. This is more so based on discrediting than the ad-hom'ing, which I don't typically consider too AI.

Also...iirc...the repackaging of ad-hom'ing and discrediting has once again been brought up by OoO to insinuate I suspect him because I think he is a dick. I actually do think OoO is a dick but I do not suspect him for that reason. I do not automatically equate ad-homs and disparagements as being a dick.
Ex. I don't think OoO is scum because he called Rels a fuckface. I do think he is a dick for saying it.
Ex. I think inferring or flat out calling cassie...or me...of mooginsoosy incompetent is detrimental to town and beneficial to scum. I wouldn't call him a dick for it though.

So to say I am using something I do not find AI (as most players probably don't) to describe something completely different that I do find suspect is a misrep. Something else I find suspect.

OoO on more than one occasion has twisted comments or flat out misquoted people (me at least) to suite his agenda. Which for the bulk of D1 and D2 has been lynching me.

When asked repeatedly for his case on me he continually ignored my requests. When he did touch on it it was basically a where's waldo of > it should be apparent if you read through my posts type response (1434). I.e. OoO seems averse to answering questions.

I felt that he took on a defensive stance at an early stage of the game when it was not necessary. Stemming iirc from the RVS wagon that went up on him. Excellent. One of the plusses to early wagons and the reactions they produce.

His highlighting of me in bold red to build that scummy association of me in the minds of other players. OoO has no way of knowing indisputably what my alignment it. Just based on the fact he has been willing to vote rels today shows that he is willing to consider others. This just ties in with the earlier discrediting comments.

Call it OMGUS...I'm fine with that...but when I know I am town and someone is coming hard at me the entire game I question their alignment. Regardless of whether I think they made a genuine case on me or in the case of OoO...on questionable and/or unexplained reasoning.

His actual actions...

He never paid much attention to Hawk until he hammered him (town cred AND succumbing to what looked to inevitable).
1176 - Late D1...maybe

Hawk

is scum but not sold. Interesting to note that

hapa

has fallen out of contention at this point. Kop and Doom are possibilities though. Along with me of course.

1122 - says "dick-move analysis suggests that Aubrey is town". OoO apparently wants to push the belief that being a dick makes someone town. Interesting given the fact he later suggests I suspect him for being a dick. Dick = NAI.

1378 - No comment wrt

Hawk

. Hammer.

Little to no lead up to voting

Hawk

and conveniently...his early suspicions of

hapa

dissolved and wound up being a fairly strong townread on

hapa

D2. We CAN NOT lose a SECOND SCUM PLAYER only on D2! We must not allow scum to be lynched 2 days in a row! Save

HAPA

!!!!

Other than a brief stint by

hapa

in RVS...neither

hapa

or

Hawk

vote OoO.
OoO never had a vote on

hapa

that put

hapa

in serious danger and ignored

Hawk

aside from the EOD1 hammer.

hapa

and

Hawk

seem to be fond of OoO as well:
#455

hapa

calls OoO prob-town (along with Creature, momo and

Aubrey

) & calls OoO the driving force in the game so far.
#535

Hawk

understands why OoO is a town read of Creature's.
#690

hapa

calls OoO and momo.slot prob-town
#888

Hawk

says if

hapa

flips town to look at OoO. Knowing

hapa

would flip town therefore do not look at OoO.
#921

Hawk

says OoO is unlikely to be scum.
#1232

Hawk

townreading OoO, BV and Rels.
#1821

hapa

backs up OoO case on me and votes me.
#1827

hapa

"blatantly sheeping OoO on Fitz"

Rels has been a tr for me most of this game and knows OoO better than anyone else in this game. The fact OoO is a serious scum suspect to Rels only serves to strengthen my suspicions towards OoO.

I think providing an "Oh well" aka "Well shit" hammer on

Hawk

doesn't do anything for OoO. I think his backing off of his D1

hapa

suspicions only to defend him even moreso on D2 (when scum was starting to circle the drain) is even more telling.

I think VCA supports OoO being scum
Additionally...I think VCA almost locks in BV, Creature, and Rels as town.
If OoO isn't scum I think VCA would point to momo (despite my based on meta only town read on Doom), cassie................and maybe Kid. I hope this game doesn't go beyond OoO though because other than reservations towards momo I don't really want to imagine anyone else in the game as scum.

So VOTE: outoforder

havingfitz · Post Post #2358 (isolation #92) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:11 am

In post 1735, havingfitz wrote:I find it hard to imagine both Hawk's scum partners would have bussed him

Translation = I doubt it.

In post 2356, outoforder wrote:Especially when Fitz' conclusion is "there is 2 mafia in Hawk wagon"

Scummy misquote of words or inference never mentioned.

In post 2352, havingfitz wrote:OoO on more than one occasion has twisted comments or flat out misquoted people (me at least) to suite his agenda.

havingfitz · Post Post #2365 (isolation #93) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:15 am

In post 2357, outoforder wrote:The only thing i am gonna say about this is that:
Before this:
His actual actions...
Nothing is alignment indicative or just straight up bs.

After it, when i flip town Fitz jsut made a case on himself : D

There is this gem too:
how would the fact that other player is essentially being called incompetent affect my willingness to listen to that player
Do you want to guess who i have "called out" for this?
If OoO isn't scum I think VCA would point to
momo
(despite my based on meta only town read on Doom),
cassie
................and maybe
Kid
Yeah, the thing is i say what i think is true (=i don't think they're helping much). You call them mafia (=you will do that when/if i flip).
^_^

DUNKED!

1) learn how to quote ffs.
2) wtf are you talking about?

havingfitz · Post Post #2366 (isolation #94) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:16 am

In post 2363, outoforder wrote:I am getiing mad at this fucking dumbass.

Fuck you asshole. Go back to TL if you can't stand pressure. Fucktard.

havingfitz · Post Post #2369 (isolation #95) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:21 am

In post 2367, outoforder wrote:I thought you thought i am scum and this is not "pressure"?

Because the last scum can't be pressured? Right. Brilliant.

havingfitz · Post Post #2371 (isolation #96) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:00 am

^^^ smh

I've explained why I think you are scum. The pressure is my suspicions/vote on you.
How does one make a case on scum in a non-pressuring manner?

I.e. (again)...wtf are you talking about?

Town!OoO shouldn't be literally freaking out at the prospect of a single survivable mislynch.

Scum!OoO should be annoyed as fcuk at the prospect of losing the game for scum.

havingfitz · Post Post #2429 (isolation #97) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:08 pm

In post 2420, outoforder wrote:wow Fitz is so handsome and cool, fucking so cool

Finally not misrepping. Well done

havingfitz · Post Post #2430 (isolation #98) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:09 pm

In post 2427, Creature wrote:VOTE: havingfitz

havingfitz · Post Post #2432 (isolation #99) » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:14 pm

In post 2424, outoforder wrote:his case has nothing to do with anyone being mafia tbh.

What was your case? Someone made a wall post! And said they'd finish their thoughts later...scum! scum! scum!
And he said I was scummy for being a dick (though he didn't). And lots of misquoted quotes too.

Awesome.

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:37 am

In post 2440, BlackVoid wrote:If they were scum together, I'd expect light distancing rather than Hap appeasing outoforder.

Why are you looking at it as appeasing and not as trying to put OoO in a good light?

In post 2443, cassielle wrote:the case had good chunks, yeah, but they were almost entirely pulled from my own past arguments vs ooo, or kidamn's quips against ooo (things like the misrep and discrediting players).

I don't think anything I have stated towards OoO was taken from anyone else's suspicions. If other people are noticing the same things wrt OoO that I am I would expect there to be some commonalities but I have not replied on anyone else for my suspicions.

At BV...did you see anything in the links I provided you upon request? If you have any questions for me ask. I'm v/LA until Monday but if it's not an in depth question and something quick over the phone I can probably answer in short time.

As for my case on OoO...like I said...I did not want to pour through 400+ posts looking for every little things I found questionable wrt OoO. I preferred to make it more a summary of iirc suspicions I have developed throughout the game. There's also a POE aspect of it that I did not delve into (it's fairly obvious) and gut.

I'm not scum. You have done some meta on me you mentioned before that would suggest as much. I'm not sure why I am such a front runner tbh other than OoO's tunneling on me (minus his brief stints on Rels).

Mod...v/LA until Monday

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:22 am

I didn't realize hapa even had any completed scum-games games on here.

Idk...it appears hapa has a history with OoO which combined with daytalk....who knows how that dynamic would play out.

I know from experience though that MOI is not the same player (literally of course but more so figuratively) as OoO and that MOI has no problem being bussed by or bussing partners. So that alone could effect team mate interactions.

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:24 am

In post 2448, momo wrote:I say we lynch fitz today and OOO tomorrow.

You sound pretty certain OoO would be the best choice for tomorrow. If you had to pick someone else for tomorrow's lynch who would it be?

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:00 am

In post 2453, BlackVoid wrote:Yeah, so a quick question Fitz: is it normal for you to take into account suspicion from people who know each other and factor that into your reads?

No. This is the first game I been in where a group with history on another mafia site were in a game. I assumed a lengthy history. So the fact two seemingly suspected hapa right from the start was as good a factor to consider on D1 as anything.

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:49 am

In post 2462, outoforder wrote:1) Eitz is not okay getting lynched. 2) He alsoready gave three other scumreads if i flip town.

1) With a lone exception I have never been ok getting lynched in 100+ games over the past 8 years. I don't like getting lynched. I try to make it as hard as possible for people to lynch me regardless of my alignment. As town - so that scum have to earn their mislynch. As scum - because obvious.

2) I didn't give a scumlist...I said if you flipped town...that based on VCA some players look bad but I didn't think any of them were scum.
How is that different than you saying Rels or me for the lynch and that momo is very very likely town? I.e. leaving the door open that he is not.

havingfitz · Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:13 am

In post 2068, outoforder wrote:VOTE: Rels

In post 2077, outoforder wrote:oh you wanna wifom, i will fucking wifom you.

Lynch me and lycnh Rels. Or the other way around. Idc.

You just gave out your scum motive. ^^

In post 2079, outoforder wrote:I will hammer myself if at L-1

Just lynch Rels the next day.

BV, read this. Please consider on what you read on his posts.

In post 2472, outoforder wrote:I didnt know saying someone is very very likely to be town is leaving a door open for them being scum...
and Rels is not scum

So yes, thats very different from what youre doing..

Ohhhh...OK.

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:10 am

In post 2484, BlackVoid wrote:Reading over HavingFitz's ISO in Mini 1843, the quality of his analysis is much, much better than here.

BV...that was a game where I replaced in late on D4 that I had 3100+ posts and 3 nks to work with. I would hope any analysis I made there would be much much better than in early stages of this game.

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:26 am

In post 2490, BlackVoid wrote:How do you miss that it was five to lynch anyway when you keep spreadsheets of votes and never miss a single vote?

1) I had not updated my spreadsheet yet that morning so I took OoO's "I'm voting Fitz" post as accurate (no surprise it wasn't) and 2) even if I had been looking at my spreadsheets they're not set up in any way that automatically makes it clear what lynch requirements are for any given day. I quite often have to count rows to figure out for myself. I usually do not even pay attention to mod VCs because I use my own. That's why the 3 L-4 listings in the mod vc that morning just sunk 4 in my head. It's not a mistake I make very often. I genuinely did think I had been lynched.

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:27 am

"count rows"
EBWOP
Should read "count columns"

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:31 am

In post 2489, BlackVoid wrote:But even now, you don't talk about a lot of things like the D1 wagons and people's stances on them in much detail. You don't seem very sure outoforder is scum considering you have backup suspects so I'd expect a more thorough analysis of them. You also weren't a major factor in getting Hap lynched D2, why? You had him as a scumread but there was no push to get him lynched and your vote was one of the last on his wagon.

The earlier it is in the game the less likely I am to jump up and down on anyone's guilt or innocence. I will state my opinion and stick to it but I rarely try to rally the troops to a particular position. Why? Inherent doubt that I may be wrong (which in the case of mislynches really pisses me off) and lessening of association with mistakes to be used against me (regardless of my alignment). Getting it wrong and saying my bad never goes over well with me.

I.e. I'm not typically a heavy pusher. My pushes tend to get stronger the more I have to work with....later in games.

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:02 am

Sure....making breakfast and heading to church. Might be a few hours at the soonest.

P.edit ^ to BV

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:28 am

In post 2510, BlackVoid wrote:Yeah, about the bus vote. Why do you think he bussed if Fitz is his partner? I was calling out Fitz as my #2 suspect and linked him with a Hawk scumflip. So, Hap would know that if he bussed Hawk, he'd have to bus Fitz as well.

Regarding the genuine-sounding Fitz ATE, I thought I saw him say similar things before but it seems I misread.

Spoiler: From Mini Normal 1843
Subject: Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

havingfitz wrote:If I am today's lynch I would just urge for Maria to be tomorrow'so lynch. I'm busy the next 2 hours but happy to answer any other questions or concerns.
Subject: Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

havingfitz wrote:@Cloud...you being upset in my situation is how you would react. I'm not you. This is a game...it's not LYLO...and you guys have a lot more invested in it then I do. I do not want to be lynched and I do not want to do a disservice to deceased town who put a lot of effort into this game before I replaced in but it's not my call. Scum are not going to like my cases on them (nor town if I have it wrong) so it's an uphill battle. If you guys think GM was especially scummy that's between you and her. I've read little to nothing GM has said because I know her alignment (town btw) and I cannot explain anything she did without making an assumptions. So why bother?

@BV...if you want my read on anything...any occurrence let me know. I can't speak for GM but I'm happy to give my opinion on anything else. If I do get through today I should have more time to actually read through the entire game over the weekend/during N4.

This is what he said regarding his lynch.

What are you trying to show BV?

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:41 am

In post 2495, BlackVoid wrote:Can you talk more about your reads other than outoforder? Specifically, your thoughts on Cass and Momo's slot as a whole as well as your updated read on Creature would be nice.

I'd like to think an OoO lynch would be the end of the game and players I tend to think are town are not people I need to figure out who is scum amongst.

If OoO isn't scum then based on PoE and VCA I would say the most likely candidates for scum would be momo or Cassie. Iirc I had some suspicions towards cassie earlier in the game but those have dissapated. I was tr Doom based on having just finished a game with him where he was town and it felt the same (I haven't played with him as scum so maybe there is no dif). There is nothing about momo's game I like and the Doom read (and OoO suspicions) is the only thing keeping me from suspecting momo more.

I have one completed game with Creature where he was town and voted town!me in lylo for scum to win. He seems to vote me in every game we are in. My dislike of him is more based on his playstyle and feels more like a policy lynch whenever I want to vote him. However...in this game...his role in getting both Hawk and hapa lynched have me thinking he is town in this game. I haven't really looked for scumtells from him because of other more suspect players and being in defense mode.

havingfitz · Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:44 am

In post 2512, BlackVoid wrote:Trying to figure out if you suggesting that you be lynched is consistent with your beliefs as town. I'm not sure. I'll wait for your content post with reads which will hopefully help.

I never like being lynched. If my lynch is seemingly inevitable I can actually get tired of the shit. But I will never (aside from after a guilty as scum once iirc) vote myself...i.e. make scum earn it. I don't like to be lynched but shit happens.

havingfitz · Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:13 am

In post 2427, Creature wrote:VOTE: havingfitz

In post 2498, Creature wrote:tbh if
it's not momo idk who it is.

outoforder is just a fear.

havingfitz still looks somewhat engaged (
unlike scum!him)
.

Your actions and thoughts seem a little disconnected.

havingfitz · Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:25 am

Awfully quiet for a Monday morning.
Little over 7 days till deadline.
To the 4 people not voting...if you're considering voting me please ask anything. If you're not considering me...great. Then who?

havingfitz · Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:50 am

Ah pffft. GG town.

Thought I would more than likely be clear by this point in the game
wrt PGO's arming.

No complaints come to mind mod so good job. Thanks for the game!

Also...can you post who armed each night?

I enjoy being scum but it sucks when your entire team is getting
serious suspicions (whether for decent or crap reasoning). No fun
being constantly in defense mode (as town or scum).

I wasn't terribly optimistic about the prospects of surviving day 4
but I was looking forward to it. Even if I was more than likely going
to be lynched I was ready to give it a go and was bummed this morning
to see the game over message from the mod.

The kills were primarily based on who I thought was most likely to not
arm among players who were not being highly suspected. I felt Kop was
a tweener and might confuse things up. Figured N3 that most players
would have armed and I targetted momo because I knew he would
mindlessly follow others on my wagon where as others at least were
open to thinking things through. So much for that

I enjoyed playing with most of the players.
Those who feel the need to be condescending twats...not so much.

I'm fine with mafia thread being released.

havingfitz · Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:43 am

In post 2609, Tenshii wrote:
In post 2563, havingfitz wrote:Also...can you post who armed each night?
Yeah, I posted them in 2552

Thanks.

Fcuk! Only person who hadn't armed yet and I pick him. Ffffffffcuk.