Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[massive]

Yo who brought the s'mores?

VOTE: Twoface

No RVS super suspicious.

[massive]

Dibs on buddying the guy with the Pentagon avatar!

[massive]

VOTE: Shannon

[massive]

VOTE: Shannon

Why are you scum reading Shannon?

Why didn't you ask everyone who voted for me why they were scumreading me?

[massive]

Why didn't you ask everyone who voted for me why they were scumreading me?

Everyone that voted for you was in RVS, or they stated why they were voting for you. Your vote was an empty vote outside of RVS. We're not mind readers, so how about you explain your vote instead of deflecting.

We were on page 3 and had two wagons of RVS. I disagree with your claim that we were out of RVS.

[massive]

[quote="In post 66,
You're really calling someone scum for an obvious RSPS post? Seems to me that you're grasping at straws and trying to get an easy lynch early on day 1. This is only my second game here but this just screams scum to me.[/quote]
Why did it take you an entire page before you voted TwoFace?

[massive]

You already made your RVS vote on page 1. There was no reason for you to make another one at that stage on the game. What were you trying to accomplish with a random vote with no context behind it?

See who was going to make a big deal out of it. See who was going to jump in and answer questions addressed to other players. Did you see something particularly towny in Shannon's post to jump to their defense?

And holy fuck dude simmer down and stop answering questions that aren't addressed to you.

[massive]

Although I did fuck up those quote tags. But still it should be obvious if you read it that it wasn't your post that was badly quotes, it was Fykus.

[massive]

Ketching up.

[massive]

I didn't like how you were deflecting when someone asked you a question.

It's a playstyle thing. I understand people ask questions to figure out who's trustworthy; that's why I ask a lot of questions back at people. Either you get a back and forth going, a give and take, or you get people who immediately try and make it scummy. Mostly I do it when it sounds like the question isn't actually trying to sort me.

@massive, 59: what do you see on shannon? the fluff?

Actually it was this, which sounded about as fake as their scumhunting has been since then:

Fingers crossed we are both town here and can make up for it!

I thought id call him out on what I considered him to be doing to see if he'd offer a reasonable response. A page later he hadnt offered one, so I put my vote on him. I'll be sure to vote at the same time I ask questions next time.

(answering my question about the delay in voting) So why say it "screamed scum"? Just hyperbole?

Lil could be town. Matt also could be town. I know I've played with Twoface before and I wish I remembered more of his game, but I'll say town and then go look.

[massive]

Twoface was town in Space Mafia and it's possible there's variance. In Space Mafia he had a lot more irons in the fire and was interacting with well over half the town; here he seems just tunneled in and not trying to sort anyone else. That being said, Space Mafia is probably a bad example of how anyone's average game is going to play out.

[massive]

How can you say I'm not trying to figure people out? You don't know. You can't read my mind.

OK, clearly I thought this went without saying but "in thread." Certainly I'm not arguing your internal monologue.

[massive]

Looking forward to an elaborate post. I expect candlesticks.

Twoface, what did you think of Shannon's "examples"?

[massive]

I think I need to go back and reread that initial exchange.

[massive]

I still have issue not so much with the fake claim (yes people shouldn't lie in general unless they have to so I'll always have issues with that) but the bigger issue I have is sick basically scum reading somebody for knowing it wasn't a legit claim and voting him and him acting like the claim was legit.

I'm still not seeing this. Who did he scumread for doing this?

[massive]

btw 15 makes the mason claim not a joke as he implied it was.

Yeah I didn't read any of that as serious. It was page 1 and he was obviously still trolling.

[massive]

Yes yes, your tunnel is big enough for two, we get it.

[massive]

If you'd like to compare my activity with that of, say, Nadpool, I'm sure I can see why what I'm doing would be considered scummy.

[massive]

i'm fully aware nad hasn't done anything of value but when 2 people have done things I perceive to be scummy and then proceed to do nothing of value, that trumps just just being useless

Other than "defend" the first guy you tunneled on, what have I done that was scummy? If it's this ...

VOTE: massive
You've been on site way too long to find not rvs voting suspicious.

... you and I are going to have a long talk post-game about growing a sense of humor.

[massive]

Oh I'll give you vibes buddy.

IAI: What's the likelihood that they're BOTH scum? Neither of them are getting any real traction and there really isn't a counterwagon, unless you count Kyouko's random hop onto the Nadpool train.

[massive]

Let's just lynch Lucca. All he's done is make catch-up posts and given out reads with very little reasoning for them. He's barely interacting with people and is not trying to sort anyone or really game solve.

Why Lucca and not Nadpool?

[massive]

Do you think he's interacting with people? Do you think he's game solving?

[massive]

Twoface, do you think there's enough of a difference between why Uzi is suspicious of Lucca, and what Nadpool has done in this game?

[massive]

I have no interest in going after Nadpool. It just shocks me that there are people who want to scumread OTHER players for "empty posts" or "not trying to sort players" or "not trying to gamesolve" when Nadpool has posted less CHARACTERS than I have posts.

Why am I "going after Nadpool" and not just calling these people out on their impossible-to-justify exclusion of Nadpool in their fictitious scumreads?

[massive]

I felt like you keep trying to draw attention to him yet you don't ever directly interact with him to try and get him to participate more.

Yeah trying to do that is not something I have any interest in doing. The gimmick is a shitty thing to do to a game based on words and trying to interact with that would be like smashing my thumb with a hammer on purpose. I get roped in to fighting with gimmick accounts in too many games and it sucks the joy out of playing for me. So for me, it's better to use him as a comparative and try and understand the motivations of other people who seem to be giving him slack.

[massive]

Hey IamI, why do you want a competing wagon with Fykus, instead of trying to convince us to vote for Fykus along with you?

[massive]

Still happy with my Shannon vote.

[massive]

Who else do you suspect?

I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with most of these players so I'm still parsing. Not you, not Twoface. Probably not Nadloop although his style will drive me insane at some point in the game. Not Matt, I've seen a handful of reactions for him that mirror my own. I'll be watching whoever replaces Lil Uzi though.

[massive]

BlackVoid did you replace into scum?

[massive]

Well, for starters, I think sickofit's teammates would have to be PAH-RETTY BAD to go along with killing Twoface. I don't think scum kill Twoface "because he's right" in that situation, since he spent all of Day 1 "being right" but being unable to convince anyone really to join in with him, and I think it'd be unlikely that that would change any time soon. I also think it's WAY less likely that scum chose to kill Twoface "because he was right" over the claimed JK. And that's why this:

It's not just that TwoFace flipped town but that he was nightkilled which makes it more likely scum wanted to get rid of him because he was right. The last time I played with him, he tunneled scum all of D1 and the scum killed him N1. I'm uncertain on sickofit but am definitely don't think it's unreasonable for people to suspect him because of TwoFace's flip.

made me ask if you replaced into scum, because I don't think scum are this bad and I don't think you would think scum were this bad either.

I mean, I was one of the tunnellees, and either (a) I'm not scum so Twoface wasn't right or (b) you have to think I'm so bad that I'd let my team basically out me by killing Twoface. Which is it?

In the meantime Fykus is still playing a pretty obvious newbscum game so

VOTE: Fykus

[massive]

@massive - What happened to your D1 scumread on shannon?

Yeah what DID happen to my scumread on Shannon?

Did 26 not sound fake to you? Jee willikers I hope we are both town! Golly gosh! And what is there in Nadpool's 528 that would make someone go "I second that emotion" as Shannon appears to do in 529?

It's still there.

Your issue with my predecessor LUV doesn't make sense to me. LUV suspected Lucca because the latter was always just catching up and was rarely ever playing the game in real time and interacting with other players spontaneously. I thought that was a reasonable suspicion. Instead you compared Lucca with Nadpool and asked why LUV wasn't suspicious of Nadpool for doing the same thing. Except Nadpool's and Lucca's play were not similar at all. While I could see Lucca as scum trying to float under the radar by making catchup posts, Nadpool has been a lot more blatant about not contributing anything and there's much less scum motivation in his style of play as opposed to Lucca's.

Let's just lynch Lucca. All he's done is make catch-up posts and given out reads with very little reasoning for them. He's barely interacting with people and is not trying to sort anyone or really game solve.

Why Lucca and not Nadpool?

Do you think he's interacting with people? Do you think he's game solving?

No, I'm sorry, these are still legit questions. Saying "he's not interacting with people or gamesolving" doesn't say anything about the specific differences in playstyle between the two. And neither Lil nor Twoface in his rampant defense of Lil said anything near what you said. This is why I ask, because I don't understand. I didn't have an "issue" with Lil, unless you count "trying to determine his reasoning / motive" an "issue."

Moving onto D2, I don't like how you voted Fykus for playing an "obvious newbscum" game whereas you mostly ignored the rise and fall of the Fykus wagon D1. What changed your mind? If he was such obvious newbscum, why did you need IAI to convince you to join the wagon in 407?

You know, I'm not crazy about it either in retrospect. Shannon seemed like an obtuse choice for a JK so it felt way more like "just gonna throw this away on a non-factor" when I read it this weekend, but I went back through his ISO this morning and it actually followed more logically than I thought it would.

unvote

407 is trying to understand IAMI and doesn't have anything to do with Fykus really.

[massive]

I don't think it was entirely unreasonable for shannon to like that post.

OK, let me ask it like this: Was Nadpool's post enough for Shannon to sheep, despite not mentioning Soulmil or KNPD until that specific moment?

By "having an issue" with LUV, I mean being suspicious of him. If you weren't suspicious, you wouldn't have said "I'll be watching whoever replaces Lil Uzi though."

Well yeah, he didn't answer my questions with any kind of helpful response and I'm pretty sure I'm SUPPOSED to be suspicious when that happens.

And regarding Shannon's "hope we're both town" -- usually when I see that or say that, it's usually "I hope you specifically are town" because usually I know whether or not I'm town. I don't try and tie my alignment to someone else. But I can't say I haven't definitively seen it or not seen it, or correlated it to one alignment or the other. It just sounded fake to me. (Even your replace in in Musical Mafia is "I hope you specifically are town" and not "I hope we both are town.")

---

Sickofit, why target SSBM last night?

[massive]

Difference is probably the cop role. Even then I still got run up for "low activity," I'm pretty sure. As you know from my ISO this game, I'm a D1-2 faffer. Things just make a lot more sense to me once I've had a few days to digest.

And it's not tying myself to Sickofit, it's replacing him in the equation. Someone says "Sick-scum killed Twoface because he was being tunnelled," well, I was being tunnelled too, does it make sense if you replace me into that equation? I believe that it does not, hence, that statement is unlikely to be convincing.

[massive]

Sickofit, why target SSBM last night?

Still want to know this.

[massive]

Like, I understand why one of them is, but why both of them? What do you think the original plan was (assuming there was an original plan here)?

[massive]

So, are you suspicious of BlackVoid, Shannon?

[massive]

788 Oh is Jupiter scum?

[massive]

I'm here now. Having a doc CC Jupiter doesn't make me feel ANY better about Jupiter.

I'd sure like to be able to read parts over and have a think but that won't happen until Tuesday.

[massive]

I Feel like we're being hornswoggled.

I feel like BlackVoid is making too many connections that depend on Fykus absolutely flipping scum. (Last post was good though and expounded a LOT of why I'm going to vote Jupiter though.)

VOTE: Jupiter

[massive]

Can you expand a bit on who is doing the hornswoggling? What's your read on Fykus? Give us more content. Who's Jupiter's partner?

Who's doing the hornswoggling? I think maybe you. I think maybe IAI.

I don't think one could post the case on Jupiter that you just did and still want to vote someone else. You could be locked into some weird sick+Fykus confbias spiral, I imagine, but that seems unlike what I've experienced with you. I certainly don't think, even if you WERE in this weird confbias spiral, that even you would be willing to make associative claims or ask relational questions based on the unflipped Fykus.

You want Occam's Razor? Tell us how the simplest explanation of yesterday's sick v. Fykus night action debacle is that they're partners and not sick trying to get town Fykus lynched. We ran up Fykus D1 and he was only alive because of the role claim; how is the easiest example not "scum counter his night action claim"? It's not even that sick was straight-up cc'ing him; just throwing his action choice into doubt, which might not have even gotten sick lynched the next day. Tell us how the simplest explanation of last night's non-kill is "IAI was the nk target" and not "Fykus jk'ed Jupiter's kill" because those seem, at the very least, both equally likely.

[massive]

I'm on phone but you asked why we wouldn't lynch sick if Fykus flipped town, and it was just said again on this page: "Fykus lied / played badly" is a real thing you'd have to fight against. You can say "I'd've speedlynched sick" but it takes more than just you to do that.

Still want comp time.

[massive]

I'm not sore.

[massive]

Fykus, did you and sickofit plan the cross-claiming stuff on D2, or was that his decision in the middle of the day?