Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[mhsmith0]

FWIW, wrt balance the game is pretty heavily swingy on the roleblocker. If scum can protect the RB for a couple day/night cycles, they can really mess with town's power. OTOH, if town can get rid of the RB early on (as they did here), it's a hard game for scum to win.

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!

[mhsmith0]

...

@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!

Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.

I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed

[mhsmith0]

...
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.

I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed

Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost

FWIW, my reviewer meta of late seems to be that scum win while complaining about the setup being townsided

[mhsmith0]

This was town sided imo so glad that didn't happen again

I wouldn't really agree. Trackers are inherently mediocre roles, so a tracker and backup tracker isn't a huge deal (and town mislynching one of its PRs is something surprisingly common in mini normal games). Doctor improves the tracker role, but doctor/tracker is a strong combo in a micro game, but much weaker in a mini game where PR shots missing entirely is mechanically likelier. And the JOAT was merely ok; the JOAT rolecop shot hitting the roleblocker was a big boost for town, but that's swing rather than something fundamental (hitting either goon just says vanilla and there goes the utility of that shot).

Looking just at town's power, the roles themselves aren't fantastic, but they ARE coordinated pretty effectively (barring the JOAT horribly misusing the vig shot), which is where the roleblocker comes in. In mini normal games, roleblocker is considered the scum superpower; of all the normal roles that scum are currently allowed (i.e. not vanillaizer, vigilante, godfather, etc), roleblocker is the strongest by a substantial margin, as it can blast away at town power and shut it down pretty quickly.

OTOH, scum roleblocker pretty much has to be protected from suspicion and the lynch; in just about any mini normal game where the roleblocker bows out early (the only exceptions are where town power is mainly passive like masons, BP, etc), scum are going to be in big trouble.

I'll also quote one of my early posts from the review thread:

FWIW, 10v3 mini normal games with roleblockers have as a whole been pretty balanced, around 50% town win rate

Spoiler:

1794 town win
doc, gunslinger, cop
vs rb, encryptor, goon

1772 town win
doc, roleblocker, macho tracker
vs rb, goon, goon

1719 scum win
1-shot BP, mason, mason, doc
vs rb, goon, goon (very different game here, town power was mainly passive)

1715 town win
doc, cop, role cop, jailkeeper
vs rb, godfather, goon

1709 scum win
1-shot gunsmith, JOAT, role cop, doctor
vs rb, watcher, goon

1666 scum win
tracker, 1-shot BP, cop, 1-shot vig neighbor, vanilla neighbor
vs rb, godfather, neighbor

1662 town win
tracker, vig, doc
vs rb, goon, goon

1653 scum win
doc, cop, 1-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1596 scum win
miller, doc, cop
vs rb, goon, goon

1527 town win
bodyguard, cop, 2-shot vig
vs rb, goon, goon

1514 town win
even night vig, cowardly gunsmith, cop, odd night vig
vs rb, godfather, goon

etc

In general, against a roleblocker, town has had at least one really strong power role, or multiple passives (like 1719). The JOAT isn't strong enough, and tracker is a middling town power in a 13p game.

You can pretty easily compare a couple prior games to this one that are somewhat similar setup wise:

1772: town got a doc, tracker (macho), and a full town roleblocker, and won
1662: town got a doc, tracker, and a full vig, and won

town was 2-0 in doc/tracker setups before this, but also had full useful powers (1772 was probably scumsided since town roleblocker isn't super useful) - comparing 1662 in particular to this one, town essentially trades a full vig (very very strong role though swingy) for a JOAT and a backup tracker

I'd also note that in rb/goon/goon setups, town frequently gets a cop (1794 is cop/doc/gunslinger agianst rb/goon/enrcyptor; 1653 was cop/doc/1-shot vig; 1596 was cop/doc/miller; 1527 was cop/bodyguard/2-shot vig). Here town's power was relatively diffuse, but I think it was overall balanced given how powerful a weapon scum roleblocker can be.

[mhsmith0]

PS FWIW, doctor in particular can be subverted by roleblocker. RB on doc = doc goes nowhere, doesn't save an obvious target on the board and/or gets tracked to nowhere. Potentially an easy mislynch if played right and/or luckiliy by scum.