Mini Normal 1874: Camping Trip Mafia (Game Over)

[TwoFace]

Rip lemon.

[TwoFace]

Yo who brought the s'mores?

VOTE: Twoface

No RVS super suspicious.

VOTE: massive
You've been on site way too long to find not rvs voting suspicious.

[TwoFace]

Why would you vote a pr claim so early out the gate? I find that highly suspicious

More importantly.

Why would you fake claim mason?

If it's not a fake claim, why the fuck would you actually claim mason and out your partner?

I can't speak for innocent but i certainly didn't believe your claim so for me, him voting you wasn't even mildly suspicious let alone highly suspicious

[TwoFace]

@nadpool. Why is your elephant walking backwards?

[TwoFace]

Thanks but that didn't have the answer

[TwoFace]

That's weird

[TwoFace]

Yeah we're going to have problems if you don't answer questions you've been asked. So can you like answer my questions?

[TwoFace]

So 2 scum caught. This game is easy

[TwoFace]

VOTE: sick

Massive you aren't off the hook but since I can only vote 1 scum at a time...

[TwoFace]

Well that was a productive evening. I am pleased

[TwoFace]

well yeah when scum gets caught, that tends to happen.

[TwoFace]

don't know, don't care.

you lied and refused to answer my questions, that is a scum claim so hang and go away quickly

[TwoFace]

Wrong. I don't need to know your specific reason for doing it. All I need to know is that no townie should ever do something so stupid which means you are most likely scum.

[TwoFace]

All I need to know is that no townie should ever do something so stupid which means you are most likely scum.

Really? Do you really think no townie would troll day one and fake claim? I've seen both scum, and town fake claim on page 1. You say massive is scum because he voted for something that is NAI, but you are doing the same thing with Sick claiming mason day 1. Trolling page 1 ≠ Scum, just like not doing RVS ≠ scum.

VOTE: TwoFace

sorry I completely disagree with you here. No townie should ever lie so I don't even entertain that idea. You want to consider that go ahead but I play with the assumption that people are going to do what's right and play to their win condition.

So he has been caught in lie. That's a huge red flag
He is suspicious of somebody who voted him because supposedly he's a mason. That's another red flag
He refused to answer my questions

3 strikes he's confirmed scum.

You're protecting scum has been noted. I'll deal with you another day

[TwoFace]

You're really calling someone scum for an obvious RSPS post? Seems to me that you're grasping at straws and trying to get an easy lynch early on day 1. This is only my second game here but this just screams scum to me.

Idk what rsps means.

I'm trying to lynch scum. Sick is scum. Get on board or stop talking to me about it. I'm not changing my vote.

[TwoFace]

TwoFaced is standing out as the scummiest player so far to me. The nonsense fakeclaim isn't suspicious (especially since it's Sickofit), but taking it out of context and acting as though it's the same as a fakeclaim on Page30 is absurd to the point it's disingenuous.

Vote: TwoFace

--

pedit: lol.

Scummiest? You mean awesome. I've caught scum. Why the fuck is everyone letting him off the hook?

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, if it helps you rationalize it know that Sickofit isn't necessarily the sharpest pencil in the pencilcase.

It doesn't. Nothing anyone can say or do will get me to move my vote. If he ends up being town I'll blacklist him and report him for playing against his win condition and move on.

Since that is a least likely scenario I'll go with the simple solution. He's scum.

[TwoFace]

Don't care what he did in another game.

[TwoFace]

Yes I'm seriously telling you that I perceive lying as town playing against your win condition.

[TwoFace]

I'll also point out that if we're talking about meta 'Blacklisting someone for playing against their win condition as Town', not much stumps "Decided on a vote based on something in the RVS stage and refused to move it for the rest of the game."

I saw 3 separately scummy acts coming from a player. How many more scummy acts does he need to do to make my scum read more validated?

3 is plenty imo. You disagree fine but don't tell me how to play. You play your way, I'll play mine.

[TwoFace]

If it was just the fake claiming masons, I could just put him in my ignore pile and never read any future post. But he legitimately scum read somebody who voted "a mason" when he wasn't which is bad.

I tried to ask him some game related questions and gave him multiple chances and he refused.

That imo doesn't come from a townie. That's not rvs nonsense either.

[TwoFace]

Don't know and don't care. He's scum and my vote isn't changing until I see something worse.

[TwoFace]

lol

[TwoFace]

If you read my posts I'm not voting him for fake claiming masons alone. If you read the game you would see I was obviously not bothered by the claim alone, but what happened after. I tried to engage in a dialog about it and he avoided it. There's no town motivation for that imo.

I can ignore a stupid player who decided to lie for the lulz. I can't ignore what happened after that.

[TwoFace]

Why would you vote a pr claim so early out the gate? I find that highly suspicious

More importantly.

Why would you fake claim mason?

If it's not a fake claim, why the fuck would you actually claim mason and out your partner?

I can't speak for innocent but i certainly didn't believe your claim so for me, him voting you wasn't even mildly suspicious let alone highly suspicious

See I thought his claim was fake. I didn't vote him for lying. While I can't understand the reasoning behind it and I definitely don't agree with it, I know stupid people on this site lie for no reason.

The issue I have is I tried to figure out his mind set and he refused to answer me. He refused to enguage me in a discussion.

He's scum.

[TwoFace]

Please take a moment and skim SickOfIt's iso in Newbie 1767.

The entire thing is a hodgepodge of useless posts, filler, silliness, and general non-responsiveness. Incredibly frustrating to play with? Yes. But indicative that he's Scum? No. This isn't exactly Glork we're talking about.

No I won't do any such thing. Meta in general sucks.

[TwoFace]

So he's a shit player to avoid playing with. Fine.

His actions this game are suspicious to me so get off my nuts already.

The only way I change my vote is if I find somebody scummier or somebody makes a pretty convincing case on somebody else. Neither of those have happened.

Voting me isn't going to do force me to change my read.
Pointing to other games that shows he's a shitty player isn't going to do that either.

[TwoFace]

Two face I don't like playing with toxic players.

That's funny cause it seems people are saying you are one.

Had you not found somebody suspicious for voting you the "claimed mason" and you didn't refuse to answer my questions, we literally would not be where we are at this point.

Those 2 things PLUS lying which I find unacceptable is why I'm voting you.

You act like scum can't get caught in rvs. They can, I've seen it and I've done it.

You want me to excuse your behavior because it was rvs?

That's not how it works. That's not how any of it works.

You don't get towncred for getting us out of rvs.

[TwoFace]

I'm not quite sure why your stuck in this one thing

And this confirms you aren't reading cause I've explained at least 4 times that there are 3 separate acts that I found scummy. 3 is more than one last I checked.

[TwoFace]

You are not focused on anyone else. You are death tunneling me for shit reasons. That is what I meant by that.

The reasons aren't shit thanks.

Nobody has done anything scummier so far. I'll death tunnel you cause you deserve to be death tunneled.

[TwoFace]

Btw you didn't answer my silly question either should I be scumreading you?

Umm. You're still refusing to answer mine. I don't answer questions from people who refuse to answer mine.

But now I'll add this as another reason to scum read you.

My question is actually game relevant

Yours isn't.

There's no town motivation for making that post.

[TwoFace]

My questions.

Ebwop. I actually asked you 2

[TwoFace]

Wants me (who has 2 scum reads) to stop tunneling him yet he can't even name 1 scum read...

smh

[TwoFace]

@luca, please explain how me trying to lynch my top scum read is antitown.
Also unfortunately I can't link the game where I caught scum during rvs cause it happened on another account and I'm not revealing my other account. also I've already said my scum reads are sicko/massive.

@ssbm - don't really care about your opinion especially since you're wrong

[TwoFace]

Still down for sick lynch. Let's do it.

[TwoFace]

He's still the scummiest person in the game. I haven't ignored anything else, I just haven't seen anything from anyone else that makes me doubt my reads.

Lynching scum is never a waste. Lynching scum quickly actually makes it easier to find partners imo.

[TwoFace]

How does lynching scum on page 8 make it easier to find partners then lynching scum on page 30?

Bussing is less likely to happen on quick scum lynches. Reactions are stronger and more real. Dragging out lynches makes it easier to deflect attention without drawing suspicion

I don't think sick is a mislynch so can't answer that question

[TwoFace]

Except I've already said I can't possibly see the things he's doing come from town so I have actually considered it. So fuck you for 1. Not paying attention and 2. insinuating I'm playing bad.

[TwoFace]

And if trying to lynch a scum read is playing bad. I never want to play good. Cause my win condition is to find and lynch scum. That's what doing. Or at least trying to anyways.

[TwoFace]

Except I've already said I can't possibly see the things he's doing come from town so I have actually considered it

Can you say what these things are again? I think you said them before but I just want to make sure everything is 100% clear

Or you could go back and just reread my posts.

Sorry I'm not going to hold the hand of the person who just insulted me.

[TwoFace]

Why does it feel off? I don't really see anything wrong with it

[TwoFace]

Twoface was town in Space Mafia and it's possible there's variance. In Space Mafia he had a lot more irons in the fire and was interacting with well over half the town; here he seems just tunneled in and not trying to sort anyone else. That being said, Space Mafia is probably a bad example of how anyone's average game is going to play out.

How can you say I'm not trying to figure people out? You don't know. You can't read my mind.

I already said I haven't seen anything scummier yet. That obviously means I've read and proceed the posts made.

[TwoFace]

To everyone.

I tunnel. I don't ever hide or deny that. I've done a good job summing myself in my sig. I've also given a way to get me out of a tunnel. You want me to stop tunneling, make a compelling case. Right now what I've see from people aren't good enough to ignore my own read.

Most games people don't take the time to do that, they instead just argue with me about my stubbornness. That's pointless.

One person has been able to convince me to change my vote. Interesting enough it was the guy I was voting which I thought would be impossible. He changed my vote and he was right.

Do better if you want me to listen to you over myself.

[TwoFace]

Good on you iAI. You are making points that make sense. I'll add fykus to my list of possible scum.

[TwoFace]

@iai - why do you need examples?

[TwoFace]

Why would she lie about something so meaningless? Scum have the mirror their town play so most scum are going to say/do things they would as town.

But sure. Let's see her provide examples

[TwoFace]

. As to pointing out that I waited for a page before putting my vote onto twoface after i grilled him

To be fair you didn't "grill me" at all though. You asked me a question and voted for me for a stupid reason. You're still scum reading me for the stupid reason.

If you're town, please stop being stupid. You have literally no reason to be voting or scum reading me since you didn't even fully understand why I was/am voting for sick

[TwoFace]

Can confirm, have been tunneled by 2 Face.

i don't think this is true actually

[TwoFace]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Shannon

Are you even in this game?

[TwoFace]

The fact she's never seen it before but says it's scummy obviously raises red flags. The rest of those reasons sound good in theory but I don't think necessarily apply to this game since none of that really happened.

I still have issue not so much with the fake claim (yes people shouldn't lie in general unless they have to so I'll always have issues with that) but the bigger issue I have is sick basically scum reading somebody for knowing it wasn't a legit claim and voting him and him acting like the claim was legit. I don't see town casting shade like that. That's a scum manipulation move. It also means his original reason for claiming cause he was joking or whatever wasn't true cause you don't scum read somebody for reacting in a good way to a joke.

[TwoFace]

Hey most of you all are new faces. I'm excited to get to know you all!

Nadpool, lucca and sensfan! Hi!

Let's get this started, shall we?
VOTE: Massive

Ssbm_Kyouko and I are mason buddies so I'm gonna sheep her this whole game

vote Sickofit

for not even realizing his mason buddy is a dude.

Why would you vote a pr claim so early out the gate? I find that highly suspicious

[TwoFace]

btw 15 makes the mason claim not a joke as he implied it was.

[TwoFace]

Nah I don't agree. Plus I've not seen anything from him since that makes me feel better. Remember he criticized me for tunneling him when I had 2 scum reads and he couldn't even give us 1.

Not surprised you're defending him though. One scum read defending the other makes me feel good with my reads.

[TwoFace]

and what are you doing exactly? you parked a vote on shannon and haven't really done much of anything. I don't see any strong pushes coming from you. I don't see much scum hunting.

my 2 scum reads continue to do scummy shit so my tunnel is very justified.

[TwoFace]

nice deflection

[TwoFace]

i'm fully aware nad hasn't done anything of value but when 2 people have done things I perceive to be scummy and then proceed to do nothing of value, that trumps just just being useless

[TwoFace]

Oh i have a great sense of humor. I don't see what's funny about attacking a person for not voting in rvs.

[TwoFace]

@Shannon

How come you said my claim was scummy but you never voted me?

See you aren't even paying attention. If you're not scum town is going to lose because of you.

Shannon did vote you.

[TwoFace]

You do know why she's talking about it being scummy right? She was asked about it. All of her recent posts about it have been in response to others.

Why aren't you reading posts in context?

[TwoFace]

Like if you were town you would have seen she made her post about fykus, then was asked about fake claiming masons. She again was asked for examples, and then she responded with her explanation.

It's like you are deliberately trying to twist her posts into a negative light, and that's suspicious as fuck. And damn you for making me even attempt to defend Shannon cause she certainly doesn't deserve defending.

[TwoFace]

Sick is scum or really ducking ahitty town.

[TwoFace]

I seem to remember Two Face having a 'thing' once where he flipped a coin to decide whether or not to join a wagon.

Yes I did. Why does it matter now?

[TwoFace]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

[TwoFace]

Yes choose shannon's name below to view just her posts. Display post by user.

[TwoFace]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

It troubles me that you think 'people in general do this' is useful but 'this specific player plays in this specific way' is not.

No idea what you're talking about

[TwoFace]

I'm so glad we decided to not lynch scum right away. We've accomplished so much by waiting...

[TwoFace]

I think sick/massive are better votes but neither of them give me town vibes.

[TwoFace]

What does elyse doing that have to do with this game?

[TwoFace]

>> Doesn't care what Sick has done in other games when judging his fake claim
>> Asks me for evidence from other games when I say I think fake claiming is scummy

The fact you can't tell why each of these are completely different is troubling

It troubles me that you think 'people in general do this' is useful but 'this specific player plays in this specific way' is not.

No idea what you're talking about

since you didn't the first time, let's try it again.

mind explaining what the heck you were talking about here?

[TwoFace]

man how are people not sr'ing massive?

[TwoFace]

Twoface, do you think there's enough of a difference between why Uzi is suspicious of Lucca, and what Nadpool has done in this game?

I actually agree with his reasons for SR lucca. Lucca to me seems like a havingfitz alt and everytime I have seen havingfitz play like that, he has been scum.

the fact that you want to go after nadpool, just looks like scum looking for an easy wagon. I don't see town, especially town who has been on site for more than 2+ years, genuinely being suspicious of nadpool cause of his posting. I have seen hundreds of players on this site do jack squat and flip town. He's being useless sure, but he's not doing it in a way that looks scummy.

That's just another reason why i am pretty sure you are scum. If you are town, shame on you.

[TwoFace]

maybe "going after nadpool" is the wrong phrasing, but ever since you tried to deflect attention off yourself by throwing him under the bus ala trying to compare your activity to his, I felt like you keep trying to draw attention to him yet you don't ever directly interact with him to try and get him to participate more.

if you are worried about his activity levels, i'd figure you spend some time trying to figure out why he isn't posting instead of figuring out out why others aren't more suspicious of him not posting.

I obviously can't speak for others but nadpool for me is null. Is he doing anything pro-town? no. is he doing anything scummy? no i have no read on him, i have actual scum reads on other people. I'm not going to waste time trying to interact with somebody that i am neither town reading or scum reading when i could spend time trying to get people to lynch sick.

speaking of lynching sick. The fact that he isn't even a top wagon right now is very disturbing. If town ends up mislynching today i am NOT going to be happy.

[TwoFace]

I'm not even arguing that you're scum. I just agree with uzi's reasons. I also think you play similar to a guy who as scum just does a bunch of catch-up posts.

I'm not a big fan of people who avoid interacting with people. People who come in and post a wall of quotes/links/whatever doesn't really do anything for me

[TwoFace]

I question for you: you think the Shannon wagon is a scum counter-wagon to the Sicko's one?

Since my 2 scum reads are on it and I don't feel either of them had good reasons, absolutely

[TwoFace]

I felt like you keep trying to draw attention to him yet you don't ever directly interact with him to try and get him to participate more.

Yeah trying to do that is not something I have any interest in doing. The gimmick is a shitty thing to do to a game based on words and trying to interact with that would be like smashing my thumb with a hammer on purpose. I get roped in to fighting with gimmick accounts in too many games and it sucks the joy out of playing for me. So for me, it's better to use him as a comparative and try and understand the motivations of other people who seem to be giving him slack.

seems like a bad strategy cause you come off scummy.

[TwoFace]

He said he wanted Shannon to play better.

[TwoFace]

He said he wanted Shannon to play better.

How is being at L-1 magically supposed to improve my skills at mafia?

1. You weren't at L-1 when he voted you.
2. Idk ask him.

[TwoFace]

Why people didn't want to lynch you is beyond me but thanks for confirming what I already knew

[TwoFace]

Yes because if you're town you're fucking terrible. That vote was terrible. Putting a person to L-1 without announcing it is terrible. You're previous vote on Shannon was also terrible. You're contribution this game has been terrible.

everything from you screams scum, so yeah I hope you are scum.

[TwoFace]

I know what the vc is. I'm not voting anyone but sick or massive

[TwoFace]

I can see that Fykus is at L-1, why though?

Good question. I don't remember anyone making a strong case for him. I've probably missed something though

[TwoFace]

IAI made some good points. I remember liking them but have forgotten what those were.

[TwoFace]

Already said I'm not voting anyone else but my top 2 scum reads. Glad you pay attention

[TwoFace]

After iAI made good points about fykus I agreed with them and found myself suspicious of fykus.

[TwoFace]

Why don't you explain why you put him at l-1 without reason and without announcing l-1

[TwoFace]

I fee like I've given you answers to your question yet you keep asking me.

[TwoFace]

I'm not dodging anything. I basically said earlier that I didn't even understand why it happened cause I didn't really see good reasons and I answered 2 more questions about it.

If you can't figure out by my posts that I have no interest in joining it, because I haven't seen good reasons for it AND it's on somebody who isn't in my top 2. Well idk what the fuck else you want from me.

[TwoFace]

I can see that Fykus is at L-1, why though?

Good question. I don't remember anyone making a strong case for him. I've probably missed something though

IAI made some good points. I remember liking them but have forgotten what those were.

Already said I'm not voting anyone else but my top 2 scum reads. Glad you pay attention

After iAI made good points about fykus I agreed with them and found myself suspicious of fykus.

I didn't understand it.

After you're shotgun vote , I definitely felt like it was a bad wagon. Cause you're scum and you basically confirmed that to me with your vote.

Better? Now go piss off scum

[TwoFace]

Shotgun vote? Smh dumb ass phone

[TwoFace]

Don't worry about what I think about the people on the wagon.

[TwoFace]

Is Fykus at L-2? I want to put him at L-1.

What happened to wanting a wagon on sicko?

[TwoFace]

Believable or not. We aren't lynching an un-cc'd claimed pr day 1

[TwoFace]

TwoFace just lynch confirmed scum.

I am actually. Why aren't u?

[TwoFace]

I'm on scum right now. Waiting for the lynch.

We aren't lynching a claimed pr day 1.

[TwoFace]

If we don't lynch Fykus we gonna have to find one of his partners today then.

You don't even know if he's scum. He certainly isn't confirmed. Sick is more confirmed than anyone else imo so vote sick.

You're looking really bad now

[TwoFace]

Yes. It's never smart play to lynch a claimed pr day 1. So anyone who advocates it looks bad

[TwoFace]

It's ok to not believe a claim. The risk isn't worth the reward. If he's scum he's basically caught. If he's town we're helping mafia

[TwoFace]

Twoface was town in Space Mafia and it's possible there's variance. In Space Mafia he had a lot more irons in the fire and was interacting with well over half the town; here he seems just tunneled in and not trying to sort anyone else. That being said, Space Mafia is probably a bad example of how anyone's average game is going to play out.

2F just reminds me of my Mini Normal 1848 when he was a vig and tunneled Human Sequencer and when night came, he killed him, and he flipped town. It's nothing new. He also tunneled me iirc on Mini Normal 1860.

To be fair I didn't Vig him cause of the tunnel. I looked at relationships with the flipped scum and narrowed it down to 2 people. Unfortunately I chose the wrong one.

[TwoFace]

Why don't you explain why you put him at l-1 without reason and without announcing l-1

I made a mistake?

That doesn't answer my questions.

The not announcing I don't really believe cause the previous page it was said he was at l-2. You also didn't explain why.

So what's the reason for voting him please.

[TwoFace]

Btw I'm actually getting so fucking pissed off that two face can't answer my question and give me a chance to "actually gamesolve". Literally all of your ISO is screaming that I'm scum cuz I'm not gamesolving... but your not going to answer my questions? Bullshit.

Learn to read cause I've answered your questions before you made this post.

[TwoFace]

btw I'm

not

getting lynched today... I promise you that.

You might be.

[TwoFace]

Can't blame him. It feels like day 3 to me

[TwoFace]

Why did you hammer yourself?

[TwoFace]

[TwoFace]

ha ha the bp claim was fake, nice job jupiter.

good game everyone

[TwoFace]

TwoFace, you are fun to watch when you tunnel, I hope I'm never on the receiving end of that when I am scum lol.

it's only fun when i am right

I want to thank you for opening my eyes to Fykus. I felt your posts were good and that's really all it takes to get me to shift focus sometimes. Just a good post with decent explanations yet so many people have trouble doing that.

I'd definitely play with you again

[TwoFace]

...

@mod: please update OP for flips for living players; that helps people who are doing archive or stats analysis. Thanks!

Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.

I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed

Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost:P

[TwoFace]

Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost:P

If the scumteam was something like you, BV, and Innocent then yeah probably

That would be an awesome team

[TwoFace]

...
Done. Thanks once again for reviewing the setup.

I'm just glad to see that it is, in fact, possible for town to win a mini normal setup I reviewed

Had scum not screwed themselves town probably would have lost

FWIW, my reviewer meta of late seems to be that scum win while complaining about the setup being townsided

This was town sided imo so glad that didn't happen again

[TwoFace]

If anyone could give me some advice or commentary on my play itd be greatly appreciated

I think a big help would have been being more assertive. You're D1 wasn't that bad tbh (although I wasn't reading it in real time which changes perspectives) but you kind of felt a bit aimless.

As for D2 and D3, just being active almost certainly would have helped. I was pretty sure that Jupiter was scum over you, but at the end of the day, it was hard for me to say you were town - there was nothing for me to point to in your recent play.

I find it interesting you thought fykus was town. I mean sure Jupiter played it kind of weird, but the night action debacle and lack of reaction form them towards the other just screamed scum.

Also had scum not killed me, I would have exposed fykus as scum cause I tracked him n1

[TwoFace]

It's also pretty apparent when an unclaimed player gets killed over the claimed player that the claimed player is probably lying.

[TwoFace]

You don't need to lynch scum day 1 to win. The risk of possibly lynching wrong isn't worth the reward imo. Scum faking will easily be caught and other scum aren't going to fake claim so find the partners

[TwoFace]

Yes he did. The mod is new so I don't fault him. People know Jupiter is iron so it's ok