Mini 1877: Spyro the Dragon (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

Ali don't feel like I'm not listening to you. I am and I'm trying to see your side.

[Infinity 324]

But with watcher they know

who

the problem is, which is more important since they can kill the power roles they find. Whereas the knowledge from global voyeur doesn't help them directly.

Scum didn't have a tracker, they had an amnesiac tracker which sends results to probably town and is mainly useful for fakeclaiming purposes.

[Infinity 324]

I just don't see how "knowing what they're up against" actually helps scum win the game. What would they

do

with that knowledge to advance their wincon? Maybe give an example?

[Infinity 324]

I really do think the amnesiac tracker and a watcher on the same team is just really unlikely.

And I really think that 2 strongmen on the same team is unlikely.

Cakez's fakeclaim was amnesiac tracker, so when he claimed he would

have

to have sent his results to towny targets. This is role madness, so VT claim isn't an option. Sending the results so scumbuddies would be a death sentence later, so amnesiac tracker is more like a fruit vendor than a legit tracker.

I just don't get why the "what" is useful if you don't have the "who"

[Infinity 324]

With a Tracker you get a who
With a Voyeur you get a what.

With a Tracker you get a who
With a Watcher you get more whos.

Also Leon has been pretty towny so far. I mean, he's at mylo. So if Cakez did send a result to Leon, and Leon were to be flipped earlier, Cakez could just use "I thought he was towny" as a scapegoat. Is there something wrong with my thought process here or what?
-Ali

Well leon wasn't towny when cakez was alive. I guess the issue is that unless scum is "obvious town", it'd be suspicious to not target the IC or doc giver or vig.

[Infinity 324]

Well leon wasn't towny when cakez was alive. I guess the issue is that unless scum is "obvious town", it'd be suspicious to not target the IC or doc giver or vig.

I see your point here.
But let's put this set up in a world where Lane didn't reveal himself for no reason. Or just didn't reveal himself period D1.
Would you be suspicious if Cakez gave the result to Leon in this situation?
Also how was Cakez even supposed to know that massive was the doc giver D1?
-Ali

I'd be suspicious if he didn't give it to his top townread. I can imagine a scenario where cakez could justify giving it to a scumbuddy, but most of the time I think he'd have to give it to town. Especially when the other scum flipped, it'd look bad on cakez.

But in this case lane confirmed cakez gave the result to him.

[Infinity 324]

But in general I think the amnesiac tracker should be considered more like a fruit vendor than a tracker, again.

[Infinity 324]

Why is it pointless to catch fakeclaims?

[Infinity 324]

That's the only reason town would need it but it's a good reason. I don't think it's situational, I think it's somewhat likely scum would have to make up a role and get caught with it.

Even if scum could get their own track results, it would still be hard to use the global voyeur since you wouldn't be able to connect the track result to the power role.

[Infinity 324]

Also a lot of town's roles are weak (for example yours) so...

[Infinity 324]

Because the mod thought that was necessary to balance the role...

If it happened every night that would force scum to do exactly what their fakeclaim was every night or be lynched, I think that's super powerful.

[Infinity 324]

To balance the game*

[Infinity 324]

Scum aren't going to be caught fakeclaiming necessarily without the global voyeur...

I don't think watcher claims are fake. I also don't think scum have 2 strongmen

[Infinity 324]

Incorrect. Scum-Flubber has no reason to watch Lane 2 nights in a row.
Also, why does scum-Flubber watch Lane N1 knowing that Cakez is going to visit him?

Fair enough, but I feel like he'd do that to get towncred and find protectives. In a role madness he needs to have s believable fakeclaim.

[Infinity 324]

No one on n1

Spammers on n3

And yes I am scum by my own setup spec but -_-

[Infinity 324]

Tbf no matter what this game has much more than a usual amount of protectives and much more than a usual amount of investigatives

[Infinity 324]

The fact that I not going to convince anyone of anything is making me unmotivated to do gamesolving

When spammers flips town, don't say I didn't tell you.

[Infinity 324]

Flubber "making sense" is not a good enough reason to townread him I guess. I don't have anything stronger than that and the 2 strongmen thing, I just feel like spammers have been obvtown by play.

[Infinity 324]

But if there's a chance I'll convince you, I'll re-ISO people.

[Infinity 324]

Leon doesn't agree

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: n_m whatever

[Infinity 324]

I really don't see how scum could justify doing any night actions other than the ones flubber did

[Infinity 324]

Honestly, my scumreads are based less on setup spec and more on PoE

[Infinity 324]

Leon is town, man.

[Infinity 324]

Flubber's story*

[Infinity 324]

That's interesting cause I just woke up

But my day yesterday was pretty good. How about you

[Infinity 324]

n_m is confirmed scum unless it's me + RS

[Infinity 324]

I never "soft pushed" spammer

s

[Infinity 324]

That's not a soft push lol but ok

[Infinity 324]

"You guys are nitpicking onsmall stuff because you don't have a response to the actual argument"

Yes that's true, that's because the actual argument is not really addressable.

[Infinity 324]

k

[Infinity 324]

This game lol

Massive, do you have any doubts about me?

[Infinity 324]

Ok I'll start looking for associations and ISOs tonight

[Infinity 324]

Well I did this whole thing before I realized I'll find out who scum is with my roleblock anyway, so hopefully it helps you guys I guess

Spoiler:

-Leon dodging Gin vs EA on pg 1 is scummy.
-RagingSpammers is awktown
-Leonshade's posting later on did not impress me at all either.
-ignoring Not_Mafia and his shitposting, someone should vig him

VOTE: leonshade

Spammers seems like the most likely assocation here, although he doesn't mention flubber. Note that cakez and n_m both say to vig each other which is a convenient excuse not to bus

VOTE: Not_Mafia

For someone that invests so heavily in meta this is a questionable vote

And ending RVS too early is bad and an excellent way to stall a game as scum

VOTE: Not_Mafia

This is bad theory posting why is it scummy

Don't like these soft defenses

Now that you've started posting good content, nothing actually. I do like how you're getting super engaged now and I think my early analysis of lurky scum is wrong so I'm going to rethink.

hrmm

RagingSpammers' posting on the last page was town but jfc can you not live up to your name thanks.

eager if NM is getting vigged, why are you still voting him?

Trying to get votes off his buddy...

They kept doing the same awkward posts despite getting a lot of shit for them. Like if I'm RS scum and start getting a lot of scumreads for awkwardness then I'm going to want to back off and start rethinking posting, not keep hyperposting.

ok...

This is a copout vote. It's super easy to be voting Not Maf right now because he's being a troll, but he's always a troll. He's going to be getting death either way, so this looks like just a way to avoid real scumhunting.

More soft defense

Sircakez could be scum

idk if this is good or bad for flubber since he never votes there I think

now for those reads
Town - RS, eager
Nulltown - Leon, infinity, lane (I'm disregarding the IC claim for this read since it's unconfirmed and could be trolling, if it's legit then he's top town obv)
Null - Flubber, massive, NM
Nullscum - MoI
Scum - Aella, Gin

Special category - RC

VOTE: Gin

This makes spammers or leon a little more likely than flubber

Infinity I want your fucking readlist. All you do is ask people for reads and then ask questions about it. What are YOU thinking for once?

Weak shade and not really true

I didn't like this given that he scumread RC

So whatever, if I'm wrong on alisae or leon we'll find out after the no lynch but don't expect me to case them lol

[Infinity 324]

I'm really glad we were right on n_m though, now he have a 50/50 chance which is a lot better than we had before

[Infinity 324]

He could've, but they're subtle enough that it's unlikely.

And n_m is confirmed scum to me so...

[Infinity 324]

Compare to my 2146, I thought I had something with Cakez/Aella. I especially didn't expect Cakez to null/townread both of his buddies.

P-edit: Is he? Unless you're 100% confident in your reads/PoE I don't think that's the case.

Yes because if n_m is town either you, massive (lol), or flubber is scum and would've hammered him already.

Also wrt the associatives it's a little different since cakez was actually voting aella for a while and pushing them although weakly

[Infinity 324]

Forgot it was still 4 to lynch...

[Infinity 324]

Yep

[Infinity 324]

Ali you ruined it

[Infinity 324]

Tbh I do find it off that leon hammered there given his previous confidence in a me/ali team and the risk of losing on the spot

We'll see though

[Infinity 324]

Fuck. Me.

[Infinity 324]

;(

I probably could not possibly have had worse reads

Maybe if I scumread the IC

[Infinity 324]

I played so terribly I can't even. I hard defended scum from the moment I replaced in, tunneled RC and scumread universal townreads, and then just jumped to the next townie to scumread.

[Infinity 324]

Well I need to rethink a lot about how I approach this game. I can't let myself play like this ;(

[Infinity 324]

I promise I will be less lazy in reading you in future games. But it's not true I was trying to policy lynch you. I pointed out many posts that felt fake to me and many tactics that felt manipulative to me.

[Infinity 324]

I do agree it was dumb to scumread you for misreading gin, but it felt like too much of a coincidence to me given that gin was a universal townread before.

PEdit: and I pointed out that I couldn't just assume you were town, I had to make a judgment based on what I saw. I was also sheeping lane, who I assumed did have that context.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry for misreading you MoI, you actually played pretty well. I still maintain that you didn't really have enough info to meta me and that you may have been conf biased when you were doing it but, uh, I'm one to talk.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity couldn't understand flubber was GUARANTEED CONFIRMED town after using a power night 1

What?

[Infinity 324]

RC, I was legitimately trying to sort you, even though I may not have shown it on the surface. I just found it hard to talk it out with you because when I tried to pressure you you blew up in my face. I didn't deathtunnel you, I doubted my read for a while but I think I did have some legitimate reasons to scumread you. It didn't help that all you gave me back was AtE and threats. I get that it's part of your playstyle and you feel like it's a necessity, but given how much scum use it as a tactic and scum!you uses it as a tactic you can expect me to unvote because of that.

I understand your frustration completely, but I think it's unreasonable to expect people to just...not touch your slot every game if theyre not one of the few players who know you intimately. I don't know about other people, but I treat every slot differently depending on the strength of their scumgame. That's just how I operate. It's playing against wincon for players to call you town for reasons they know you could fake as scum. So what do you expect

us

to do?

Not saying fear didn't play a part in my read, but you can't reduce it down to that. Again, I will try to read you better in the future but I might misread you too. I thought I had legitimate reason for scumreading you, again I totally understand why you're frustrated but sometimes you get misread and that's how the game goes.

[Infinity 324]

i probably played the worst

No you did not lol

[Infinity 324]

Infinity couldn't understand flubber was GUARANTEED CONFIRMED town after using a power night 1

What?

1 scum tracked
1 scum killed
1 scum could've watched

[Infinity 324]

Infinity couldn't understand flubber was GUARANTEED CONFIRMED town after using a power night 1

What?

1 scum tracked
1 scum killed
1 scum could've watched

No, and you were the only one that said that

[Infinity 324]

Where did it say that 0_0

[Infinity 324]

The Forces of Evil may perform the factional kill and an active ability on the same night.

Ok I missed this...

tbf no one other than you tried to correct me