If you die you lose

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callforjudgement
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Post Post #18 (isolation #0) » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:34 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 1, Majiffy wrote:Oh yes lets give all the players a survivor wincon that won't turn into chaos and toxicity.
It's actually a Town Survivor wincon, which is not quite the same. In particular, it doesn't screw with endgame maths nearly as badly as Neutral Survivor. Thus, it's a less terrible role. Nonetheless, it's still terrible.

There are two main things that distinguish scum from town in a normal game: scum have more of an incentive to survive and to keep their buddies alive; and scum have low investment in scumhunting. If you're going to make deaths into, effectively, modkills, then both of these distinguishing factors get smaller; town now have an incentive to survive too (so they aren't going to look as different from the scum); and town also benefit from appearing to be uninvested in scumhunting, because it reduces the chance that they're nightkilled (which would also make them lose).

About the most I can see going in this direction is for townies to lose if they're mislynched, and scum to lose if they die (but townies to not lose if nightkilled). That fixes one of the problems above, in that scumhunting doesn't become any less effective for town. However, the other problem still remains, and seems mostly unfixable in this sort of setup.
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· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
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Post Post #30 (isolation #1) » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:40 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Doesn't everyone simultaneously win at the start of D1? Survivors win when there's only one non-Survivor faction left, and that's true at the start of the game. I suspect you mean Town Survivor.

Also, setup probably sucks for the scum? Even if they have a decent or even high chance of winning (which would depend on the numbers), they can't really do much to influence the game. The result's mostly going to be decided at random.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
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Post Post #31 (isolation #2) » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:44 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Incidentally, once you fix the win conditions, the setup is probably broken for town unless the numbers are really asymmetrical. The idea is that town can confirm themselves by shooting, so as long as you refrain from shooting players who haven't already shot, town are likely to have an autowin situation by the end of D1. This also means that, as you want to be someone who shoots rather than someone who is shot, optimal play is for everyone to attempt to shoot at the start of D1 as soon as the thread opens, shooting only players who haven't shot already. This makes it highly likely not just that town have an autowin, but also that all the scum will actually be shot at the start of D1.

Once you fix the break, most likely by giving scum dayvig shots too, you basically just have a Bad Idea variant.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
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