Mini 1891: Fat Boy Mafia [Over]

[Alz]

Hey guys!

VOTE: Grey He got the diet coke!

[Alz]

Blimey, that was a fast start

11 Damn it, I'm last again
If it's serious though, why grey, pine and implosion up there? Why desperado below the line?

13 Proud and true fat boys never pretend they diet or use diet coke


15 This is bad? Your reaction to it is what seems weird.

24 Guess I'm not cool anymore

26 If it's not problematic, why are you voting him?

162 Why does desperado remain an excellent vote? Why do you think pieg is town? What do you make of grey and the the wagon on him getting to L-2

188 I like this post. I agree with percivul and fire but why do you town read pieg's entry to the game? And that thing about being a double voter?

195 and 199 These interactions with grey are weird. That relentless try to convince grey is weird

Fire seems kinda town and so does grey and Persivul. Pieg and desperado give a weird scummy vibe.

UNVOTE: Grey VOTE: Desperado

[Alz]

Sorry, I've been absent of late. I'll try to be more active

[Alz]

His original reaction to getting run up, specifically the way he reacted to your vote specifically. Now his reaction to you again. They give me bad vibes

He was at L-2 on page 3. He questioned Percivul on why he put him at L-2 so fast. What seemed scummy to you in that?

[Alz]

Considering you were the fifth vote in three pages with the other four spread out and not instantly visible to the next players to vote, yes your vote was fairly opportune. The way votes were rolling along, it is quite within the realm of possibility that two other players could have come along and joined the wagon for shiggles before I pointed it out myself. Which is why I did, because nobody else was going to.

And you can't exactly say d1 flash lynches never happen. And you also can't say scum is caught from them.

So yes, I do hold you more responsible for your position on the wagon than, say, WhemeStar.

This post. But the 2 right before it also didn't seem town to me either

Hmm, I dunno. In his previous post, he says that it's not the L-2 that was worrying. It was because Percivul put him there without a warning is what the problem is. I dont know, I don't really find Grey's reaction to be scummy, it is weird imo that he was so quickly run up to L-2.

But I wouldn't honestly call his vote to be oppurtunistic, or it may have just been made to appear like a joke, I'm not sure rather confused. Its the wagon that is weird. I'll go back and take a look at it.

[Alz]

188 I like this post. I agree with percivul and fire but why do you town read pieg's entry to the game? And that thing about being a double voter?

pieg's entry to the game is townish because they sorted people the same way i would have (which is very weak), combined with just the fact that they decided to sort everyone who had posted so early before anyone else had said anything which seems like it would be a bit atypical for scum. The doublevoter thing was more of a tonal read.

I can potentially see grey as scum entirely for his initial reaction to twoface's fos being entirely facetious but from what little I know about grey it might be something he'd do as town? I would be curious to hear more from twoface. idk about him right now. I had a feeling going into the game that he'd be one of the harder people to sort given a combination of the way he described his play and not knowing his meta and his meta seeming particularly important.

So you're reading him as town partly because they have the same reads as you and partly because they were the first to post a reads list.
The first part is fine, but why would the point of time he posted it be alignment indicative? As for the doublevoter thing how is that a good tonal read.
That's what is weird for me, it was continued after the first VC and stopped only after it was pointed out as weird, as if trying to save face.

[Alz]

aaah. okay.

Well. it doesn't really matter. it's mostly irrelevant to my reads.

Persivul brings up a rather good point.

Unvote

VOTE: Pine

You say that line of lynchability reads list is irrelevant but two posts above you just said that it's partly why he's TR by you-'cause you'd lean on them the same way and and that he made one early is a town read for you


What's weird about this is two things-that quick vote change with a casual, vague reason & secondly the continued pushing of your TR of Pieg

[Alz]

we do? you are grasping at straws now, scummymcscummer

VOTE: nos

Why Nos?

[Alz]

I find the way you're posturing around me and pieg interesting; you repeatedly called my read faulty yet had pieg shoulder the blame and it wasn't clear if you were saying that it was faulty in a scummy way. I'm not sure what to make of your pieg read being mostly based on pieg's reaction to my pieg read. The page 1 reads post was still real. Like, the only reason you've given for it to not be real is that it listed a bunch of people who hadn't posted... but those people were all lumped together in the middle of the list separated by blank lines from the people above and below them. Which I think pretty clearly says that the people above the blob look townier and the people below the blob look scummier and those in the blob are neutral bc they haven't posted. I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that.

The way you're criticizing my read while seemingly avoiding rhetoric aimed at me in favor of calling pieg scum, combined with what you gave as a read on me, feels like you're trying to stay on my good side while keeping me as a possible point of pressure if pieg flips town in the future.

Looking back over desperado again it feels like he's using his scumread on me as an excuse to not comment on anything not related to me. He hasn't' given any other reads other than a not-particularly-town implied read on wheme. I can see twoface's comment on the wagon being meh as potentially true (at least, pine and alz are decent scum candidates given that there's a good amount of the town to townread right now) but i don't see motivation for desperado-town to vanity vote me with comments like "i'll just see you hang" and then just keep that vote on me and not comment on anyone else when no one joins him. He's effectively posting a lot but doing nothing with his vote and taking almost no meaningful stances.

unvote

VOTE: desperado

pine if you're town can you please stop bsing

like after thinking about it there's really no reason to vote you right now because you would bs like this as either alignment just to fuck around but given what nexus said in the signup thread it's just an annoying layer of indirection.

Okay, why do YOU think that reads list is real? Other than the fact that everyone is there on it? What do you think having reads on anyone when we were still in RVS is towny?

What do you make of Nos now?

Also PIEG, why is Prana so down below? Why is implosion closer to the gate of death if his reasoning and reads are good? Why are Persivul and Two-face also near the gate of death?

[Alz]

UNVOTE: Desperado He hasn't done much since I voted him, just the one post, so I dunno. I'll wait and see but, I'm confused about him on reading back now.

Pieg's and Implosion's interactions are weird-supporting each other, make the other look good, but weirdly peig has implosion as lower down, say below grey or wheme.

Both of them seem weird but I'll VOTE: Pieg now but can vote implosion as well

[Alz]

Fire and Wheme why do you make of the game so far?

[Alz]

Sorry, I haven't been posting, had a lot of work in the last few days.

Will be reading up now

[Alz]

@Implosion 332
Regarding timing, I can agree with you. Scum generally do wait. But the tone does put me off, it seems very forced, especially that carrying over. I'm not sure, but till now I have got a scummy vibe from him, from the reads list to the tone, to his reads. I'm confused now

334
Pine wagon is bad-mainly because however we look at it, we're gonna be policy lynching him 'cause we can't read him. I dunno if it's a mod given post restriction or pine's just doing it not to be read, but it's dumb to lynch him.

SO you think, implosion just has a mistaken town read of Pieg which pieg is trying perpetuate? What do you make of Pieg's second reads list-where even though he says implosion has been great so far, he has him much lower down.

Why do you consider desp towny?

See, this is what I find weird. Implosion's last post was kinda sounded genuine, explaining his motivations on pieg. But his previous ones supporting pieg, pieg's reinforcing of that idea and his reads list where implosion is lower down all give off bad vibes to me. I'm really confused especially after implosion's last post.

344 Reasons? How do you read wheme as town? Why are Persivul & Nos scum? Why am I scum?

347 I feel bad. But why? What do you find bad?

381 He hasn't said anything in the 9 posts he's made. Why him compared to everything else that's been happening?

[Alz]

400 Why should we vote Persivul? I would rather put my vote on pieg.

403 This is weird. It's still developing is weak like you're saying something so that he'll turn away and wont pester more. Since the game has now progressed, what are your reads?

409 What bad vibes are you getting from either of them? I'm getting a weird vibe from this

Will catch up with the rest in a bit

[Alz]

Just caught up now
Will post in in the morning, rather tired now

[Alz]

VOTE: Pieg

VOTE: pieg

Why pieg so quickly, all of a sudden

[Alz]

@alz you should mention names in your posts, they're a lot harder to read/follow especially at a glance when you're just listing numbers.

I don't know what to make of persivul. His recent play is very opaque. I dislike the degree to which he's focused towards firebringer, and some of his posts towards him have felt viscerally scummy but I can't really justify why. Like 496. Just a really... idk, weird response. Not really productive, not relevant to the game, idk. And the way he talked about how he wouldn't push an easy mislynch as scum. I think he's telling the truth but it feels off. It feels like he's being too dismissive and that he's focusing his attention in fb's direction to the detriment of other directions (similar to what I criticized desperado of, but he is doing other things). I still think his early play reads gut town even taking experience into consideration (it's certainly fakeable but i think it's a little more likely not to be faked).

I agree. I dunno something about the tone seems off. His exchange in return to fires question, that statement about analysing as if newbie scum, meta talk etc.
Fire seems very town so far but this exchange is overall weird and off

[Alz]

fire I still want you to elaborate on desperado-town.

VOTE: Nos

Why Nos, implosion?

You don't know what to make of me...yet you speak of me in the third person instead of trying to interact. I don't know what to think of fire, so I interact with him...and you criticize that. Can't say that I agree with your approach.

I honestly don't know what to make of you as well. That interaction with fire, it seems off in a way. What do you still think about Fire? Who else do you think are scum?

yeah, figures. I was considering that you might've taken from the activity overview which would invalidate my case. Which you just did. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Out of everything, pieg looks better in this interaction and Nos looks weird. I would like to repeat the question he asked-how would you consider changing your read based on his answer? What's your read now based on it?
This is weird, a weird question at the beginning, seems like an attempt to try to lay the groundwork to easily change his reads and manner of interaction towards him, followed by a casual response to pieg's answer to that question.
Yep, he's invalidated your case on him which appeared to be strong till now, with just one answer about the order he wrote his readslist in. Makes everything look very weird in hindsight

Yeah, that was pretty much the idea. I didn't think very much of his next read list, didn't see any interactive connections it had with implosion. I think imp's posts are all pretty genuine though. Feel free to push your bad vibez tho

I dunno, it's what I have seen done by scum. They either support their teammates well but puts them somewhere in the middle of their town-reads
Implosion's posts do seem town. I initially thoght him to be scum partners with pieg but now not sure. Not sure about pieg as well due to my lack of following the game continuously but i'll see.

also also

i really think wheme should die

unvote
vote: wheme

Why Wheme?

Because you're voting away from wagons and doing absolutely zero to push anyone else towards Grey?

SO what do you intend over here? That's a good thing, bad thing? What are your reads right now?

[Alz]

Regarding the whole twoface vs grey thing-I would say grey seemed scum out of te whole thing. He focuses on two face first, then just waffles here and there with misinterepted statements and then rage quits when two face refuses to stop focusing on him.

OH NO I AM TOWN D:

Hi Alisae!

I don't like this vote and I can't put my finger on why.

Why don't you like about this?

Hitlist is nos and alz so far. Don't tread alz for his waffle walls, that's his scum meta

Zero reason for massive to be a tr right now, even if he's town

My walls are part of my game reagrdless of alignment.

[quote="In post 641, Alisae"I don't really know a good way to answer this.
Massive you scum? I feel like all the questions you asked on this page are manipulative.[/quote]
This is weird. What do you think was manipulative?

[quote="In post 654, Nosferatu"
:/ The main point of my case was about how you had a bullshit readlist, implosion believed it, and you went with it, which would have been really scummy. But if you went by activity overview, its not exactly an RVS list.
Ergo I was wrong.[/quote]
So if he went by activity overview, how does that nullify everything you've stated above as your case? Weird

hey alz, how you been doing?
university fun and all that?

It's fun, but hectic as well. I don't think I'm getting enough time to focus on the game

it's not the brute fact of you townreading him. It's the timing and the tone of the post that read like you're townreading him because it's useful for you to do so, and like you're trying to back-justify why you acted in a way that assumed he was town without having said or implied that you thought he was town (note that I don't really find that in and of itself scummy, but your post makes it look like you may be afraid of being perceived as scummy for it).

This is why the dude is town for me

[Alz]

Noooppppeee

[Alz]

What are your reads so far Alisae if you're caught up

[Alz]

Suuuuuuure Pine...

The TwoFace slot is town, they're just being really silly.
Implosion's concern with me is probably coming from town.
Trusting Implosion here on why Pieg was wagoned, Pieg is most likely town as well.
Fire town.

Why do you think two face is town? And what do you make of grey' s slot from their interaction?
I agree about fire and implosion

Any scum reads?

[Alz]

Alz: I've said I think you're town and that Twoface is town. Everything he's done since the LAST time I said that have also pointed towards what I know of his town game. Not crazy about Whemestar but I don't know if it's scummy or just irritating. Might have more later. Alisae is either scum or Super Unnecesarily Paranoid Of Me, and we literally just finished our first game together and I know at least I was town, so I don't know where the paranoia is coming from. Persivul might be town but I don't remember what I read that made me feel that; let me answer this all again on Monday when I'm back at a computer. I don't have anything better than a null on everyone else, including pieg who I am voting, but I haven't seen anywhere I want to move my vote.

Sure

hmmm....
yeah massive you're probs town.
I was mostly just confused because some of your questions seemed genuine but were manipulative and you addressed your concern with that and I liked the way you did that.

btw massive Whemestar can be super lynchbaity.

I didn't like the earlier posts but I think this seems like the towny vibe from our last game together. But the last part I didn't get, he's scummy or he usually appears to be scummy?

[Alz]

1. My read is now null on him. The reason I scum-read him is gone, which is why I unvoted. I already posted why I would change my read based on the answer.
2. If I didn't lay the groundwork and ask him the question for him to answer, I'd be sticking to a scum-read I know was possibly untrue. In other words I'd be perpetuating a false read. Kinda the thing I voted him for.
3. I've never observed that sort of thing, but interactions aren't my forte. Although while I'm on that note, I don't think you should be looking at the interactions of two people when you don't think either of them are scum. I've tried that before and it typically doesn't work.

See the reason you gave before voting pieg at the beginning, is that his reads list was faulty and that mainly implosion had a TR of him which he kept perpetuating as seen in 263, 273. You kept focusing on him till 507 at which point you started backing down weirdly.

You then asked pieg what was the order he posted his reads list in saying that his answer would change your read. He said, he got it from activity overview, which was apparently enough for you? I don't understand how those two things correlate at all. This is very weird and completely vague reason to back off.

You asked him a vague question which imo has no bearing on perpetuating a false read. So according to this, you wanted him to give that answer which would prove he was not scum. All of this is weird.

I felt you were town at the beginning, a lot of your posts were similar to my thought process but this, it's scummy. It now feels like you were bussing him and then just slowly slid off

As for the last part, I've seen it happen a few times. I now don't think so strongly that implosion is scum, he seems more towny as posts go by. Pieg, yeah the scum reads reinforced by this and his prior posts on a read.

[Alz]

wheme who is scum

game is stagnating

neither of the lead wagons is interesting

twoface vs grey is officially dead so their crossvotes are whatever

if you're reading wheme as town hit me up

It wasn't intended as a town read. Thought you'd be willing to work with people with null reads or no reads on him as well.

So, instead of making a better scum case on him, you want someone to make a town case on him that you can pick apart?

My case is simple and I already stated it. Wheme got a scum PM and doesn't know what to do, which has resulted in his dumpster fire of an ISO.

If someone is townreading him I want to know why.

Okay, why do you scum read wheme? All of you have said prior to wheme adressing this, to wheme is asking him who he thinks is scum? So what's there in his ISO that made you scum read him?

[Alz]

i've made some good cases on d1 before.

this day is really stagnating though as people have mentioned. I don't really like wheme as the wagon to break that though.

@alz, i switched from desperado to nos because of the possibility of a wagon but the nos scumread is because of a couple things i've mentioned earlier. The pieg read flip is pretty off. Or well, the earlier pieg read based on page 1 in general, thinking more about it. Basing a read off of something so easily disprovable isn't a town tactic. I imagine if nos is town then they just had a misunderstanding but idk, it seemed straightforward to me. And i explained it like 4 times. Looks like just an easy thing to latch on to that was then harder to keep latching on to when it became obvious that it wasn't true.

I once again am wavering into the realm of mixed opinions on desperado.

I dunno about the first part about focusing on you and then saying that he didn't really intend to focus on you but I agree with his sudden turn around on pieg It could have been a misunderstanding and said as so(I didn't think about him probably doing that but that he didn't reinforces the weirdness of the 180)

[Alz]

It's how I felt at the time.

It's what you get

I don't like giving progressio. I like keeping my thoughts to myself if I can

How did I slip up if I'm scum

This part is weird. The responses to fire's question are not what I would've expected. Gave a reason after being voted and town not wanting to make their thoughts transparent other than laying a trap is weird and I don't think the latter is the case

[Alz]

Okay, I dunno, I'm kinda confused now. Implosion and Fire are town for me. I'm not really sure about desperado and twoface. Null to town I would say with some weird posts in between.

Pieg I was and still am reading as scum. Nos seems scummy weird as well with the 180 and his explanation for it. Wheme off late seems weird. Persivul seems okay but I did read him as weird at a point-I'm not sure now. Massive seems okay, dunno what to make of pine. Alisae seemed weird at the begining but her last reads list was okay but I did read grey as scummy with that interaction so not sure. Darklyn hasn't said anything, neither did prana except for that one weird reads list post.

[Alz]

I never said you shouldn't change your reads or second guess yourself or should've done nothing. That's what I said to implosion, that you could've realized it was a misunderstanding and clarified it.

What I said was that, what I found scummy is the way you did it. The vague reason and the 180 and the manner it was done was scummy

[Alz]

Catching up now
Will post in a while

[Alz]

I agree about fire and implosion

Because?

I'll get back to this soon as I'm home and get to a computer so that I can quote posts. Right now on phone, but I'll address whatever I can

[Alz]

VOTE: Alz

that one post I mentioned is still really bad and he disappeared right as he went under a ton of pressure, said he'd respond to what he could while on mobile and then didn't post for the rest of the day.

wheme's opening today looks really town to me.

Like you mentioned in that post, yeah I tend to use the word weird a lot. Its what i do when i have a prerty strong scum read but I'm also not somewhat sure. It's how I have always played.
And my reads are not just going with majority. If it was going with the majority, then I wouldn't have given reasons. Go back and go through my I so, for each of my suspects I have given reasons. For pier, I've given from the beginning, pushed nos cause of reasons I suspected and wheme when he refused to be transparent about his reasoning.

And after posting that I'll come back, I had classes. When I was free at night, thread was locked. This is really lame, pushing that as justification

[Alz]

Hey pieg! What would you like to talk about?

[Alz]

Also what am I at, L2?

[Alz]

@Nexus- Please replace me out. I'm really sorry Nexus and everyone else, I really cannot devote enough time for the game as is necessary due to classes being very hectic. And with exams in a couple of days, I can't play at all. I'm really sorry everyone