Scummies Ideas, Suggestions and Comments Thread
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Meh.Nexus wrote:scrap the scummies
I agree that scum needs to be BoW.In post 1124, Pine wrote:Shrug. Good Townplay to me is not about guessing correctly, it's about the process. Just like I wouldn't nom a scum player/team for roflstomping a clueless and bickering Town, a clean Town win against a disorganized scumteam is hollow. Good Townplay is about the cool use of logic and perception against a worthy opponent, effectively gamesolving despite obstacles. A single-game Town award to me would look like a single player or a strong Townbloc defeating capable opposition, particularly if the scumteam possessed an initial advantage and the Townies rallied or came together, overcoming division to unify through leadership and teamwork.
There's quite a big difference between single-game performance, which may be influenced by environment, playerlist, circumstance, and the price of milk in Newark, versus consistent patterns of solid play as represented in BoW awards. It has never made sense to me why Town was a BoW and scum an individual award.
However, on your point of Town single-game.
I think your theory is good---until you start collecting nominees. The probelm with Scummies is that we do not declare "Compotent" or "Not Compotent", we declare who is the best.
Comparing a town single-game is kinda confusing. For example, which one is better? A VT calling the entire scum from page 1 or a townblok able to work together but make some few mistakes?
The process Realeo. What matters it the process
Ok. Process then. I may argue that a "VT calling the entire scum" is not an achievement. Why? Because finding mafia is only half the story. Communication is important. The VT clearly fails the second part. In the townblok, they fail the first part.
So who deserves it?
Comparing single town game is fiendish due to too many noise!"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
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I want to push this idea back.
In post 943, Realeo wrote:
I have a question. What does exactly the Best IC do? Why we give award to the Best IC?as well as perhaps even the Best IC
I mean, IC is a special position since it's aright. Take example of military, which is a community service. They don't award "The best soldier", they award "Extremely Competent Soldiers". Plural. More than 1. They don't say, "Hey you're a good soldier, but you ranked #20 so sucks to be you because we only give to #1!"community service
Instead of rewarding one award to the best IC, can't we just award multiple award to competent(s) IC?
Because I think IC is intergral to this community and deserve better than just one receiver."The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
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yes it hasIn post 1122, Realeo wrote:I think single-game Town award has been discussed before. It was shafted because the award is no longer awarding good game but simply statistics (ie. They mislynch 1 town. Bad play).
I don't think BoW scum has been discussed here?
it was scrapped partially because scumplay is sneaky by design and once you pull off some kind of big move / bluff / gambit / etc you lose the ability to do that as easily in the future. and scum is just all about surviving, so it makes it harder.
with town if you're drawing NKs early because you're so good at the game, then that's kinda a point in your favor. so you can more easily run a BoW analysis on town play across multiple games.green shirt thursdays- xRECKONERx
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Hold on a second. Are you saying that someone cannot be consistently good at being scum?In post 1128, xRECKONERx wrote:play is sneaky by design and once you pull off some kind of big move / bluff / gambit / etc you lose the ability to do that as easily in the future. and scum is just all about surviving, so it makes it harder.
with town if you're drawing NKs early because you're so good at the game, then that's kinda a point in your favor. so you can more easily run a BoW analysis on town play across multiple games.
Granted, you cannot make big move all the time but [1] does big move is the only criterion for good scum? [2] isn't surviving the lynch as scum is also a skill?"The debate on whether short multi postings or a long wall of post is good or not is like a debate on gun control--we would never understand each other and we have to make peace with it." -Realeo
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The problem with BOW scum is that it pushes the award toward those who simply play a TON rather than play particularly well. And that's because of the probability of being scum. If you're judging a BOW award, you likely want at least 5 or so games to judge on. But that means on average your players would need 20 or so games in a year to achieve that scum ratio. We HAVE those people on the site, but they're a minority of the total players (though they make up a significant amount of the player base).
Contrast that to town, where to get 5 or so games on average you only need on average 7 or so games in a year to accomplish.
On the flip side, because scum have fewer players per game, it's far easier to determine individual effort. Even the best town player ultimately works in tandem with the rest of the town and it's only as multiple games go on that the trends really emerge. That's not nearly as necessary for scum, where being one of a handful of people allows an individual to really stand out even in a single game..-
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This is good.In post 1134, Gorkington wrote:unless you do BOW for the person's cumulative scumplay to that point even beyond that year? might be a little too broad in scale, but might also do a better job of rewarding someone for good scumplay over the years vs a single year.
It shouldn't be a BoW for the year award, it should be a lifetime achievement.
This does bring up difficulties, most notable in judging the nominees, since there's a lot more material to look at, and the fact that it would basically be the same set of nominees each year for awhile, with just then previous years winner being replaced by a new finalist, and so on.GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009-
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:/ yeah, that's also a concern.It could be be a biennial award perhaps, to mitigate the issues with not having enough scum games to go off of, while still being based on current play?GTK a me, currently live, this may be your only chance!
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=78521&p=10688009#p10688009- Gorkington
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Last years' are included in the scummies 2016 ceremony thread.In post 1143, Spiffeh wrote:Where can I find a list of people on the SSC?- Cheery Dog
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memberlist.php?mode=group&g=13684In post 1143, Spiffeh wrote:Where can I find a list of people on the SSC?Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.- Pine
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In post 1141, Spiffeh wrote:Is it worth trying to argue for Best Town Performance and Best Scum Performance team awards to come back?
Because I still think it's pretty lame that they don't exist anymore
Agreed. I think there is a substantive and important difference between outstanding individual performances and instances where an entire team is firing on all cylinders and working together. Not to mention that all of the team noms for Don Corleone last year seemed to have been discarded out of hand...In post 1142, zakk wrote:Same ^"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"
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viewtopic.php?f=5&t=70735In post 1056, LicketyQuickety wrote:I might regret this, but I would really like to know why. So far I have gotten answers such as "Hydra's are bad" and "That will limit Hydra participation" and "We don't want to encourage Hydras" then people just saying "Its a bad idea" without explaining why.
No one has yet to actually explain why its a bad idea. They think they know what I am saying, but the arguments against what I suggest doesn't match what I am saying.Occasionally intellectually honest
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