Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

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First post!

Vote: "Vollkan"

for having a name that the mod can't spell.

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Vote: Ryan

because you need to die.

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Wesaq's play seems normal to me. I smell OMGUS from kab, opportunism from Space, and vollkan seems to be testing the waters without risking a vote.

Opportunism is scummier than OMGUS, though, and other than that I've been getting a relatively town read from vollkan, so

Unvote
Vote: Spacecase

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As much as it kills me inside to say this, I completely agree with Ryan: that's a very weak argument. And yet: somehow I believe him, in spite of it. Probably because he's a newbie. I'm considering voting Six Aces.

Mod: Votecount please?

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Well, then, let's play follow-the-cop. Part of me doesn't like the speed of this wagon, but logically, lynching 6A is the play today.

Vote: Six Aces

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I know congratulating the doctor is a scumtell, but I'm not sure about congratulating the killer... at any rate, I tip my hat to whoever offed Ryan for making an excellent choice.

Jesse, why are you alive? Am I confusing this with another game or did you not just claim cop?

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Phate how do you know Ryan was killed by the SK?

Did I say anything about an SK? I actually first typed 'scum', thought about it, decided it was at least equally likely that he was a vig kill, and settled on the (I thought) neutral word 'killer'.

Trying to suggest the survival of a cop is scummy when the strong possibility exists of one or more docs- scummy.

"Why are you still alive? Didn't you claim cop? I might have this confused with another game." != "You are scummy because you're still alive and you claimed cop." Kind of a stretch, actually.

Phate, why is picking Ryan such a good kill choice? Apparently he has a reputation, but it's not one I'm familiar with.

On two separate occasions, Ryan has posted his role PM in the thread when he was pissed. Mystifyingly, he's not banned from the site. He's also just generally anti-town in his playstyle (take all the stupidity of Dubya Bush and mix that with BM's playstyle, then throw in all the stupidity of Dubya Bush again), and an asshole. I would not

quite

ask for replacement if I find I'm in a game with him, but the thought has more than crossed my mind.

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I did express surprise that Jesse was still alive. I didn't express anything like doubt for his claim.

Vote: Oman

because his casual FoS on me smells like swaying with public opinion.

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How about "yeah, I claimed cop, and no, you don't have this confused with another game"?

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I'm tired of defending my surprised question, which is exactly what it appeared to be, a surprised question.

Here's what I did: I woke up to find that the claimed cop had posted. In my experience, claimed cops don't often live through the night. I was surprised, and without bothering to authenticate, made an offhand command and asked if I was thinking about the right game, or whether I had gotten them mixed up.

Here's what I did

not

do: I didn't go check to see if this was the right game, I didn't calculate the odds of a doctor, I didn't make a premeditated attempt to cast suspicion on the claimed and correct-yesterday cop, I didn't expect anyone to take it for more than it was.

So I suspect that there are scum circling the water here waiting to see if they can get townies to make more of this than it is. One such opportunist was Oman, who promptly OMGUS'd me afterwards (saying, "but this isn't OMGUS, you have poor reasoning" doesn't make it not OMGUS, especially when my reason was opportunism and I gave a specific example).

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I think it's foolish to suspect the claimed cop with a correct guilty as scum. In agreement with SSF: scumgambit is possible but certainly not likely.

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Unvote

I'm not sure how I am on the kab case. I think I'd be okay with his lynch eventually, but I'd rather look around at other people first.

@those voting kab: If turns up scum, who are his scumbuddies? If turns up not scum, who?

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Vote: MelodyMan23

This'll work.

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@kabenon:

1) You've played with vollkan as scum. We'll call his behaviour in that game X.
2) You're playing with him in this game. We'll call his behaviour in this game Y.
3) You say that his behaviour is

different

in this game, ie. X != Y.

Why do you consider this to be a point against him rather than for him?

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Who is Roger Clemens?

I don't like kab's recent behaviour, but I wouldn't call it scummy enough for a vote.

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This is where I would vote kab, except that it would put him at L-1

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@MadCrawdad: The case on kab isn't great, in my opinion. I don't think he's scum. I think that there are scum on the wagon. If a kablynch is the play, I'd like to start preemptively looking at who's most likely to be scum in the event of his being town/scum.

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@MadCrawdad: The case on kab isn't great, in my opinion. I don't think he's scum.

Orly?

This is where I would vote kab, except that it would put him at L-1

What a difference a day makes!
Twenty-four little hours!

It's odd that you think willingness to lynch and certainty of alignment go hand-in-hand.

@Shteven: Of course we're not going to nail everyone on D1. But it's helpful to get people to think beyond today, don't you agree?

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I don't think randomly lynching among people the cop talked about is a good idea, Oman.

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This is probably a bit hypocritical on my part, given my lack of posting, but I'm not a fan of lurker lynches, and SpaceCase's wagon is growing really fast. I don't like it.

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Cipher, why do you think I'm scummy?

dahill, why are you fishing?

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dahill, why is my not paying attention to cop claims a scumtell? Unless you prove that scum are less likely than town to pay attention to roleclaims (good luck with that), you can take that out of your argument.

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Spacecase, you thought Kab was scum, but you can't give a real reason, but you want us all to accept that, but in the meantime you think that it was a scumdriven wagon?

Am I getting that right?

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Just because town shouldn't self-hammer doesn't mean they don't, especially newbies. And if he is scum, why would you give him a chance to self-hammer?

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Maybe voting him will bring him back, though I'm doubting it. I know SC has been lurking too, but at least he bothers to show up. vote: phate

Whether I'm 'brought back' or not will have nothing to do with your vote. I've been busy lately; this is also apparent in my only other game at the moment, Mafia 74. Now, though, it's the weekend, so I'll have a bit more time to devote to this game.

I don't think someone should be assumed to be town just because they claimed townie... and yet I'm still unsure of the case on SpaceCase other than 'erratic play', which most newbies are guilty of.

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dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'

That was an incredibly scummy post.

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Well, for reasons previously stated, the dahill wagon is lots better than the SC one.

Vote: dahill

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@dahill:

dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'

That was an incredibly scummy post.

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phate i believe i already answered your question..

dahill, your entire reason for suspecting me (without voting me, just gauging the waters) is that other people are on the wagon? You don't even take the time to find and echo their reasons, you just say 'good enough for them, good enough for me?'

That was an incredibly scummy post.

thats not my reason for suspecting you..
i just pointed out that the SC wagon was slowing, and you happened to be the next suspect on my (and others') list. my reasons for suspecting you is because you switched quickly from saying Kab is town to heavily suspecting him, just like Spacecase. also, as i pointed out before, you hadn't realized cipher had claimed which is scummy in my book. scum don't always have to read through the thread. they can just look for when they are mentioned and defend themselves to slip by. i'm not saying scum always do that, but it is more likely for scum than town to do that. furthermore, the fact that the confirmed townie and cop suspect you does somewhat contribute to my suspicion. i think that even though he might not have investigated you, Cipher's opinion should be the most highly valued because of his pro-town power role. LaptopGun also should have a valued opinion because he is confirmed town. there is a chance he could be the GF, but i believe him to be town.
those are my reasons

Trudging through your post (paragraph breaks and proper grammar would help me lots here), here are the reasons you have for suspecting me.

1. Cipher and LaptopGun are 'confirmed town', and they're voting me.
2. I'd forgotten or missed Cipher's claim.
3. I 'switched from saying Kab is town to heavily suspecting him'.

1: As has been stated, C and LG are neither confirmed town (though probable town) nor omniescent, and their opinions alone are not valid reasons for a vote.

2: As has been pointed out, missing a claim != scummy. Even if it were a general scumtell, though, consider the following. I'm in games, Open 60 - The New C9, and Mafia 74: Minimally Flavored Mafia. Compare my activity level and attentiveness in the two games and you'll find that they are similar: generally low, rising on weekends. My behaviour is the same in Open 53 - Near-Vanilla, where I was recently killed (as town, might I add). So even if low activity/attentiveness was scummy in general, it's clearly a nulltell at worst (and a towntell at best) for me.

3: Bullshit. I never said Kab is town, nor did I ever heavily suspect him. If I recall correctly, I said that I wasn't sure he was scum but he was a good lynch.

So, does anyone have any

real

reasons for voting me?

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Ok, first I'd like to apologise for not posting this weekend. I was hanging out with friends Saturday and went to a chess tourney on Sunday.

That said, I maintain that I have never made contradictory statements about Kab. I didn't think he had to be scum, but I thought he was more likely to be scum than anyone else, certainly enough for D2... in short, I wasn't sure he was scum but he was scummy enough to be 'the lynch'. In large games. D1 and D2 lynches are a tool to get information. Then, ideally, we massclaim D3 and make it a race from there.

I didn't want to do this, but I think it's time to divert this wagon and still give the town a few days to get back from V/LA and look in another direction.

I

claim: doctor

. I protected somebody random N0, I can go look it up if you like, but it's not important. I protected Jesse Gunn N1 and the fact that there were two kills suggests to me that neither of the scumgroups targeted him, so I took a chance and protected vollkan last night, reasoning that no one was going to bother to kill him because they assumed he'd be protected by the doc. The fact that there was one kill last night suggests to me that I was correct, and gives vollkan townie points.

I breadcrumbed D2 when I mentioned how surprising it was that the cop was still alive, and people jumped all over it, thinking it was a scumslip or an attempt to get the cop lynched.

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unvote; vote Spacecase

for the sake of a lynch.

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@Shteven: No, not particularly. I do know he's a better lynch than I am, because I delay the cop's death by a night.