Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[Spacecase]

im gonna go with the obvious choice.

Vote: somestrangeflea

[Spacecase]

do i smell a OMGUS vote?

[Spacecase]

So what we are basically saying is that we interrogate the "veteran" players, right?

[Spacecase]

To tell you the truth, Wesaq has me confused in more ways then one. Such as his overall reasoning of voting you in the first place.

unvote

[Spacecase]

but that's the thing. It had to be deliberate to take the most analytical person out of the game on night 0.

[Spacecase]

vote Wesaq

, Seems like the smartest choice instead of playing the guessing game. Also, this will clear up confusion later in the game, sine it seems Wesaq can't keep his facts straight.

[Spacecase]

He may not be the most anaylitical player and that was my mistake on my part due to inference but, he is a smart person as i have read in a lot of the post. And no I haven't played w/ CKD.

[Spacecase]

So you're pretty much saying that your post sheds no light to our predicament.

[Spacecase]

To answer the first question about the interoggations. I never said that we should do it. I was asking for a clarafication hence the question mark at the end.

Wesaq confused me as too how he phrases his answers.

[Spacecase]

well looking over the past few days of posting which i largely missed due to finals, I'm still kinda behind but im a little suspicious of Jesse because the person he investigated just happened to be Peers. I could be looking to far into it, but that's just my personal opinion.

[Spacecase]

i hate to ask, but does bringing up past games have any relevance?

[Spacecase]

Thank you for explaining the relevance of past games. Also sorry for not posting as much. My computer is messed up and im currently posting off my wii...

[Spacecase]

Come now vollkan, you have to admit that some words, some turns of phrase, cause you to feel a certain way about them. Your words merely caused a scummy sensation in the pit of my stomach. I was right last time.

Could you please clarify what you mean by the last time you were right? Also you have quite a weak argument using "feelings" as your evidence in my view.

FoS Kalenon007

[Spacecase]

yes i have been reading, i figured out what you were talking about.

[Spacecase]

Im going to have to agree, lynching Kab would solve nothing and hurt us in the long run. But thats my personal opinion.

[Spacecase]

Kab has been the best firm lead I have been able to find thus far. I do think he is the scummiest thus far, and that he is a decent lynch.

Is this inferring that we should lynch him and get it over with?

[Spacecase]

A lynch, be it a townie or scum, provides information. A no-lynch at this point in the game just gives the scum another free kill. This day needs to end with a lynch. I would prefer it not be me, I would prefer myself over no lynch.

Kab, watch you said is scummy to me becasue you are trying to be "honorable", I guess you could say and just offering yourself up which I'm thinking is a last ditch effort to sway the vote away from you.

vote Kabenon007

[Spacecase]

I'm pretty sure that the claim i made answers your question. It seemed scummy to me that he would say that it was an honorable way to sacrificing himself to the town.

[Spacecase]

Listen the lynch was better then no lynch at all. And yes i did change my views 15 posts later. But the person to throw down the hammer is always going to look suspicious.

[Spacecase]

And adding to my point is (correct me if im wrong) that volkan even said he was a decent lynch.

[Spacecase]

Nope, didn't scare away the noob. Sorry a lot has been going on with the recent death threats and the crazy amount of homework tagged along with this kinda stuff. Give me an hour to catch up.

[Spacecase]

yes my posting has been getting progressively slower do to certain events (i.e. JRP, V Tennis and ACT). Anyway I will try my hardest to keep current with this game.

[Spacecase]

Can anybody clarify exactly why there was a case on Melody man. I'm having a hard time finding it since my reading is totally inept.

[Spacecase]

The recent death threat was actually two death threats. The threat was towards all Hispanics and African Americans that March 5th and 6th somebody will come to school with a gun and shoot them. This leads to more homework since we haven't taught anything for the past three days of last week. In fact there was a record low of 400 teenagers at school on March 6th. I also didnt ask why I was being prosecuted as a mafia member due to the main case that i was a "lurker" and that i was trying to lay low.

[Spacecase]

I actually did state my purpose in why i wanted to lynch Kab. You just never really looked at it. I thought that it was scummy of what he started saying towards the end of the day. Plus i have been trying to answer all the questions you have asked such as the death threats and what not.

[Spacecase]

Alright think about it, Kab starts refuting the claim that he isn't scummy and then he kinda turns around and says lynch me now. That didn't sit right with me when i heard it. Also, sorry for quoting you volkan.

[Spacecase]

So your automaticly under suspicion when you didn't know that Cipher is a cop?[/reverse]

[Spacecase]

Opps sorry about the reverse thingy.

[Spacecase]

So does this still make Phate suspicious?

[Spacecase]

In your eyes dahill1. Yuck im having a bad post day.

[Spacecase]

Alright maybe I try to explain better why I voted to kill Kab. When the first post happened I thought that the wagon was a scum driven wagon. I didn't think that he was scum at all. But, what Kab said 15 posts later changed my opinion. You can't tell me that you have never changed your opinion 10 to 20 posts later.

I hope that this gives you a better understanding of my thought process.

[Spacecase]

@Rigel: to answer your question, see the part below about how I feel that Justin's placing the second vote was designed to strengthen the wagon enough that it would reach a lynch. Answers to Justin follow.

There is definitely something odd about his claims on vollkan and then vollkan voting for him, but I don't consider that vote worthy alone.

This was meant to mean that Kab's claims of understanding vollkan were strange, and that the reciprocation of vollkan voting for kab was also strange. It seems like more than a coincidence, and I can't help feeling like I should be able to see some connection, but I couldn't and can't tell what it means. It's likely just white noise, on further thought.

My vote was the second on Kabenon007, so the eager to lynch line doesn’t really play, nor does it make sense as part of a meta as I generally tend to cast a vote early based on my strongest suspicions. So could you explain how in this case it feels like I’m “eager to lynch”?

The second vote is the one that transforms it from one person's opinion to a (very small) wagon. It really picks up steam more around the 3rd/4th votes, but the second vote can be a good time for a scum player to nudge a case on a townie forward, while being early enough to avoid claims of wagoning the next day. Adding significant reasoning to it can also add staying power to the wagon - however, in your case, that's just normal meta. I'd be more concerned if you hadn't. So it seemed to me like your ultimate goal was to see the wagon through to the end. In other words, you seemed certain you weren't making a mistake.

Can you explain how my case being “100% true”can be made to comfortably coexist with your previous statement “I'm just not really seeing the case, honestly.”? This could just be a byproduct of what you said in your answer to Vollkan, that you mangled the earlier post, but on its face it certainly seems contradictory.

The tone part will be harder to explain, and I'd admit that it's flimsy. The 100% true part is simpler. You don't have to distort facts in order to make a bad case. If you're town you can honestly believe a case and still be wrong. If you're scum you can present true statements which simply don't prove the case (easy enough, as no 100% proof is ever really possible). Summarize some of the questionable things he's done, and then jump to the conclusion that he was scum based on it. Town players always make mistakes. Cases aren't built on perfect information, so at some point every case has to make a leap of faith. Going from "he said A, B, and C" to "he is scum" isn't always true. You got A, B, and C right, but I just didn't see the final "he is scum" as being very convincing.

Shteven, your posts above show that you’ve done no real scum hunting since suspicion first started turning against Kabenon007. You’ve given no reasons, outside of my dangerous self using a tone you didn’t like for not wanting to see Kabenon lynched. You’ve asked a total of one question to people on the Kabenon007 wagon. And if you are “concerned about lynching a town player” should you be willing, having done nothing to look for other suspects or poke holes in the case against Kabenon, to accept “the event you are lynched, which seems likely at this point.”?

Because the behavior above looks a lot more like someone who doesn’t want to be associated with a lynch than it does someone who doesn’t trust it and would like to see it stopped. To that end, Shteven, before deadline could you give us some idea of your suspicions, if you have any? And, if you have any, your specific problems with the case on Kabenon007?

Thank you for any responses.

This is entirely fair. I have been lazy. It could be an overreaction to my two other current games where I actively mislynched a town role on both day 1's. This game is somewhat on day 1, with the speedy day 1. In any case, you're right to call me on it, and I was wondering when someone would. Here's some suspects I have, although I'm not certain on them.

1) Justin. Obvious from the above and nothing solid, but as noted, I don't like the way you entered the kab wagon. It's hard for me to quantify this, because your posts are very well constructed. While some people hate the length, I'm somewhat on your side on that issue. It takes a lot of mental processing to get at your intentions behind them, which is what makes it effective. I feel I should mention you're also valuable as town, and so distrusting you is a risk - but I'm definitely afraid of you being scum.

2) I haven't liked Vollkan's style of postings. He seems to be moderating the discussion rather than participating it. I don't know if this is a consistent play style, but most of his posts are just explaining things that have gone on between other players, sometimes including himself, but not always. He hasn't really hunted scum much. (That's some grade A hypocrisy right there!) This may seem contradictory, but I actually feel a bit of an SK vibe from him. The contradiction being that the SK has nothing to lose and much to gain from hunting mafia. Hey, I never said I was certain.

3) And in what's the opposite of what you asked, I'm thinking my vote on farside is fairly pointless now. It never was much to go on in the first place. This actually was largely an attempt to give us more choices than Kabenon vs Kabenon - but that didn't take off. I hope she wasn't really scum looking for cop claims - but if I was a townie reading my posts, I'd probably have jumped on myself for being opportunistic. Being opportunistic is a pretty hard tell to get right frequently. I've been wrong a lot - and since this is basically the case I have on Justin, it only got an IGEMOY instead of a FOS.

Unvote

If I find more I'll be certain to post them, but if I had a lot more, I wouldn't have been in this position to start with.

As I was looking though for the votes and what not I came up on this Unvote. I checked it with the previous mod update for votes and you weren't listed. Do you know who you voted for or do you not remember.

[Spacecase]

Alright The reason it was a scum wagon was because 8 people voted and its impossible for atleast one mafia member to be on the wagon and im pretty sure they were pushing it hard to.

As of people i think are suspicious, I'm going to take a stance on Shteven for the uncountd Unvote that had.

Now the reason I have felt that Kab was mafia when he made that comment is pretty hard to explain. Like I said before, it just sat wrong with me, so I went with my gut. Which was wrong afterwords.

Does this help you answer your questions?

[Spacecase]

Im not trying to lurk and avoid trust me that makes for a boring game and somewhat pointless for me. I'm really lost on the whole claim thing thoguh.

[Spacecase]

Claim Townie

I'm a townie sorry that I'm not your scum :\

[Spacecase]

Are role claims normally this chaotic?

[Spacecase]

Im sorry but I think this game is doomed to repeat itself.